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Water softener systems
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.
I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? |
Water softener systems
Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? £10 off? Quick buy now before it goes back up! Naw, your first instincts are right. Its ********. ;-) Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
Water softener systems
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.
I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? Have you considered moving to Manchester... -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
Water softener systems
Are systems easier to come by in Manchester?
Hehe! |
Water softener systems
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? those magnetic things are a scam. That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened. NT |
Water softener systems
On 10/03/2018 22:08, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. Most will be a bit less frequent than that ;-) It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? I use a phosphate dosing system. Its effective at stopping scale deposing on heating surfaces (i.e. in heat exchangers etc), but will not stop it depositing on evaporation - so you will still get hard water marks on shower screens etc. However its cheep to run and just needs topping up with phosphate balls every year or so. Other than that you have a variety of ion exchange systems of various levels of sophistication. Those will properly soften the water, but do consume salt to recharge their ion exchange matrix. The remaining electrical and magnetic systems you can probably file in the snake oil category. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Water softener systems
On 10/03/18 22:08, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. Every month or two. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? Yes. Salt based ion exchange softeners work Nothing else does. -- "If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the news paper, you are mis-informed." Mark Twain |
Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps, though not as much according to the home owner. Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in real situations. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Tim+" wrote in message ... Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? £10 off? Quick buy now before it goes back up! Naw, your first instincts are right. It's ********. ;-) Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
Water softener systems
I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water
should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances and pipes and for all we know causing kidney stones. It never used to be like this. I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put in that huge concrete ring main around London. Could it perhaps be a break down of the cement that is getting into the water? Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Graham." wrote in message ... So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? Have you considered moving to Manchester... -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
Water softener systems
You say that, but surely where water is soft already nobody has the choice.
I don't think there should be any problem with softened water, but I guess if things were not kept working correctly one could end up with something not very good for you. I covered the magnetic idea earlier, They cause clumping together of lime scale, and it is still in the system, somewhere, probably clogging up the pipes! Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! wrote in message ... On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? those magnetic things are a scam. That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened. NT |
Water softener systems
Yes, most houses, including mine, around here have some lead piping and from
what I've heard from tests, there is very little lead in the water at all, probably since its been here all that time its coated in some lime scale anyway! Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Steve Walker" wrote in message ... On 10/03/2018 23:06, wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? those magnetic things are a scam. That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened. NT Interesting, I didn't know about using phosphate dosing to to prevent scaling. I have worked on large phosphate dosing systems (for United Utilities) and the reason for those was to prevent soft water absorbing lead. SteveW |
Water softener systems
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote: You say that, but surely where water is soft already nobody has the choice. I don't think there should be any problem with softened water, but I guess if things were not kept working correctly one could end up with something not very good for you. I covered the magnetic idea earlier, They cause clumping together of lime scale, and it is still in the system, somewhere, probably clogging up the pipes! While hard water, which is what we have (not from Thames), does create problems for the householder. I suspect that domestic supply is only a tiny bit of the use of water. You don't need softened water, for instance, to put out a fire. Centralise softening would put up costs enormously. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
Water softener systems
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote: Yes, most houses, including mine, around here have some lead piping and from what I've heard from tests, there is very little lead in the water at all, probably since its been here all that time its coated in some lime scale anyway! Brian I grew up in Edinburgh, lead pipes and soft water. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
Water softener systems
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 02:50:57 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/18 23:06, tabbypurr wrote: Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened. And that is ******** too. I know its regulastions, but the amount of sodium in softened water is about the same as a packet of crisps for every 1000 litres. IIRC the useful mineral content is also reduced, which is not a positive for health. NT |
Water softener systems
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps, though not as much according to the home owner. Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in real situations. Brian they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly. NT |
Water softener systems
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:51:01 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances and pipes it repairs pipes. and for all we know causing kidney stones. there is no oxalate in tap water afaik. The minerals present are essential nutrients. It never used to be like this. Ground sourced water has been hard for millions of years. I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put in that huge concrete ring main around London. Could it perhaps be a break down of the cement that is getting into the water? Brian no. |
Water softener systems
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:54:15 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message ... On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? those magnetic things are a scam. That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened. NT You say that, but surely where water is soft already nobody has the choice. wrong as usual I don't think there should be any problem with softened water, there is, albeit minor. feel free to read up on it. but I guess if things were not kept working correctly one could end up with something not very good for you. true I covered the magnetic idea earlier, They cause clumping together of lime scale, and it is still in the system, somewhere, probably clogging up the pipes! Brian they don't. Do you ever read up on anything? |
Water softener systems
wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:51:01 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote: I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances and pipes it repairs pipes. and for all we know causing kidney stones. there is no oxalate in tap water afaik. The minerals present are essential nutrients. Right conclusion, wrong reason. Increased calcium intake might contribute to kidney stones in a susceptible person, but the amount of calcium in hard water is a minuscule part of the normal dietary intake. It never used to be like this. Ground sourced water has been hard for millions of years. I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put in that huge concrete ring main around London. Could it perhaps be a break down of the cement that is getting into the water? Brian no. -- Roger Hayter |
Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
On 11/03/2018 08:50, Brian Gaff wrote:
I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put in that huge concrete ring main around London. I haven't noticed any change. |
Water softener systems
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 10:02:06 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:51:01 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote: I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances and pipes it repairs pipes. and for all we know causing kidney stones. there is no oxalate in tap water afaik. The minerals present are essential nutrients. Right conclusion, wrong reason. Increased calcium intake might contribute to kidney stones in a susceptible person, but the amount of calcium in hard water is a minuscule part of the normal dietary intake. I don't believe calcium intake causes kidney stones afaik. It is however essential to life. And water contains more than just calcium. NT |
Water softener systems
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 10:11:12 UTC, GB wrote:
On 11/03/2018 09:26, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote: I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps, though not as much according to the home owner. Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in real situations. Brian they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly. How does that alter the chemistry in any way? It doesn't remove the calcium ions or the bicarbonate, which react together when heated to form insoluble calcium carbonate. I don't know why it stops it depositing & adhering. GIYF. |
Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
On 11/03/2018 08:47, Brian Gaff wrote:
I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps, though not as much according to the home owner. Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in real situations. I've got a "Scalemaster Magnetic Speedfit Scale Inhibitor" wrapped around my mains water input pipe, though it's entirely passive with no mains connection. No-one seems to know how - or if - these things work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_water_treatment Maybe it's like copper (or magnetic) bracelets for rheumatism. -- Max Demian |
Water softener systems
On 11/03/2018 10:17, wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 10:11:12 UTC, GB wrote: On 11/03/2018 09:26, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote: I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps, though not as much according to the home owner. Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in real situations. Brian they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly. How does that alter the chemistry in any way? It doesn't remove the calcium ions or the bicarbonate, which react together when heated to form insoluble calcium carbonate. I don't know why it stops it depositing & adhering. GIYF. WIYF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_water_treatment -- Max Demian |
Water softener systems
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Water softener systems
On 11/03/2018 10:36, Huge wrote:
On 2018-03-10, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. Where "5 minutes" equals "every 2 weeks". It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? Oh, it's really simple. The only systems which work are the salt-based ion exchange ones. All the others are snake-oil woo. You'll need to connect the WC to the unsoftened supply or you'll be recharging it unnecessarily frequently. -- Max Demian |
Water softener systems
Huge wrote:
On 2018-03-11, Max Demian wrote: On 11/03/2018 10:36, Huge wrote: On 2018-03-10, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. Where "5 minutes" equals "every 2 weeks". It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? Oh, it's really simple. The only systems which work are the salt-based ion exchange ones. All the others are snake-oil woo. You'll need to connect the WC to the unsoftened supply or you'll be recharging it unnecessarily frequently. I disagree. (a) it isn't worth worrying about & (b) if you flush the loo with softened water, you don't get scale marks on the pan. I was going to say, that policy depends very much on whether the system designer is, or talks to, the person who cleans the toilet. -- Roger Hayter |
Water softener systems
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 14:08:41 -0800 (PST), Jon Parker
wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. Most Ion Exchange systems need filling about once a month. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? Yes - Ion exchange water softeners work. Phosphate dosing systems partially work - they reduce the problem of pipes getting clogged but don't stop marks on taps, sinks etc. Permanent magnet systems don't work in domestic environments. "Electronic" ones such as the one you linked to do not work at all. This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... Correct. https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? Some years ago during a very long running discussion of these devices I cobbled together a test rig to measure the scale deposition in a heated pipe. A kind Irishman who used to sell permanent magnet systems donated a couple to try. An electronic one came from a neighbour, a local plumber gave me phosphate dosing system and an Ion Exchange system I already had. Using tap water (hard around here) the results were as above. The permanent magnet system actually worked a bit but only when the same water was re circulated very many times through it (which is common in industrial cooling systems where permanent magnets are sometimes found but irrelevant for domestic use where water only passes once.) The electronic system had no measurable effect at all whether the water passed it once or many times. The phosphate dosing system prevented scale build up on the test pipe.. The Advertising Standards Agency say " The ASA understands that no universally accepted theory about how these devices operate and no evidence to support the contention that the devices can inhibit scale formation generally exists." https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online...t-devices.html http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html and https://www.csicop.org/si/show/magne...01/powell.html are worth reading. |
Water softener systems
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 14:08:41 -0800, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...caling-system- rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? We had one of those wonder magnetic electric coil things when we moved in. Did bugger all to soften the water. We now have a salt based water softener which does a proper job. We have one which takes salt tablets, which involves buggering about with a bag of tablets every few weeks. The ones which take blocks of salt are a bit more expensive but they are so much easier to keep topped up with salt. In the last house we had phosphate dosing on the cold feed to the combi boiler so I can't really comment on whole house water softening with a phosphate doser. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Water softener systems
On 11/03/2018 01:12, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2018 22:08, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. Most will be a bit less frequent than that ;-) It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? I use a phosphate dosing system. Its effective at stopping scale deposing on heating surfaces (i.e. in heat exchangers etc), but will not stop it depositing on evaporation - so you will still get hard water marks on shower screens etc. However its cheep to run and just needs topping up with phosphate balls every year or so. Other than that you have a variety of ion exchange systems of various levels of sophistication. Those will properly soften the water, but do consume salt to recharge their ion exchange matrix. The remaining electrical and magnetic systems you can probably file in the snake oil category. My "balls" one lasts years between top-ups (but it only feeds the header tank for the DHW). Non thermostat ceramic shower mixer valve has needed no attention in 15 years. |
Water softener systems
On 10/03/2018 23:06, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********... https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105 Can anyone with a system installed comment please? those magnetic things are a scam. That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened. NT There is also reverse osmosis but it wastes water. That will remove a lot of stuff that water softeners can't remove. They are cheaper than water softeners but they don't have a very high throughput so you need a storage tank. I just bought a pumped seven stage one for my fish from amazon warehouse deals. Particle filter to take out any solids Carbon filter to take out the chlorine (needed to stop the membrane being damaged). Another carbon filter to take out chloroamines Membrane 12l Tank post tank carbon filter something to re-mineralize it (not being used) UV sterilizer (not being used) All for about £117. |
Water softener systems
On 11 Mar 2018 13:54:03 GMT
David wrote: We now have a salt based water softener which does a proper job. We have one which takes salt tablets, which involves buggering about with a bag of tablets every few weeks. The ones which take blocks of salt are a bit more expensive but they are so much easier to keep topped up with salt. Agreed. The location of our softener means that block salt is the only way to go. There had been a pellet-type one there before, and it had been neglected and abandoned, and had turned into a solid block of salt. That came out when we moved in, and a twin-tower water-powered block salt unit put in its place. It's great. This is in East Anglia, officially a Very Hard Water Area. The concept of softening all the water supplied in the area boggles the mind, it would take a softening plant the size of one of our counties. -- Davey. |
Water softener systems
On 11/03/2018 02:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/18 22:08, Jon Parker wrote: So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener. I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes. Every month or two. It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems? Yes. Salt based ion exchange softeners work Nothing else does. Rubbish RO systems work. |
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