Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?

Thanks!

Sparks...

IANAL - but in my work place I won't even change a plug. If the proverbial
hits the fan and starts a fire etc etc - who are they going to blame? I
wouldn't recommend it without insurances etc.

--
Regards

SantaUK
Mail me at:
arjf (ng) zzvyyne (qbg) pb (qbg) hx === ROT13
Use http://andrewu.co.uk/tools/rot13/ to convert to readable format

"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?

Thanks!

Sparks...

"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple
electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?


"SantaUK" Aye Right!!! wrote in message
...
IANAL - but in my work place I won't even change a plug. If the
proverbial
hits the fan and starts a fire etc etc - who are they going to blame? I
wouldn't recommend it without insurances etc.

--
Regards

SantaUK

This was for the removal of some cable connecting some A/C units that are
getting removed,
so there is very little chance of the proverbial hitting the fan, as there
will be less to go wrong!


Just wondered about the legality of doing it!

Sparks...

In article ,
"Sparks" writes:
Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?

It's a question of competency. The workplace employer has a duty
to ensure only competent people work on the installation. There
is no definition of competency, so you need to be sure you can
defend your competency level in court (or more strictly, the
workplace employer does). Obviously, you would be very well
advised to make sure you have appropriate professional indemnity
insurance cover.

The employer I was working for when PAT testing and some other
legislation came in during the early 1990's decided they would
only emply NICEIC staff. After a couple of years of poor quality
work from all the NICEIC contractors, we changed the rules to
require contractors to bring relevant C&G qualifications along
on their first day on site. Most of the NICEIC companies could
not supply suitably qualified staff and we ended up using small
independant contractors, and got much higher quality work.

So it's really down the workplace employer to decide. There's
no legislation requiring particular qualifications or membership
in order to undertake electrical work for a business.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:03:11 -0000, "Sparks" wrote:

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?

The only real requirement is that any work undertaken is compliant
with the 16th edition wiring regulations - and even that is advisory
at present - a sparky can decide to do something different and if he
can justify it then he's not breaking any laws.

Main issue is whether you could face a judge in a courtroom and defend
what you've done. The prosecuting solicitor will be thumbing thru the
16th edition wiring regs as he is grilling you on the stand, so you'd
better have applied the regs.

Later this year (it was supposed to be April but that seems to be
slipping badly) it will become necessary to produce inspection
certificates for many electrical installation jobs, and many time
served electricians won't be able to do that as they won't have
C&G2391.

PoP

If you really must use the email address provided
with my newsreader please be aware that the email
is processed with spamcop. As a result your email
to me might be treated as spam!

"SantaUK" Aye Right!!! wrote in message t...
IANAL - but in my work place I won't even change a plug. If the proverbial
hits the fan and starts a fire etc etc - who are they going to blame? I
wouldn't recommend it without insurances etc.

I'm curious - do most of the folk in this NG who work as handymen etc
carry indemnity and/or public liability insurance? AFAIK most don't
have formal qualifications as plumbers or sparkies etc; doesn't that
make insurance companies run a mile?

David



"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?

Thanks!

Sparks...

In article ,
PoP writes:

Later this year (it was supposed to be April but that seems to be
slipping badly) it will become necessary to produce inspection
certificates for many electrical installation jobs,

Only for domestic work, as proposed.

and many time
served electricians won't be able to do that as they won't have
C&G2391.

Anyone can fill in a certificate. It is up the the person using
the certificate if they decide to accept it or not. (And for
domestic work, being suitably qualified isn't the proposed
requirement.)

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 8 Jan 2004 06:17:57 -0800, (Lobster)
wrote:

I'm curious - do most of the folk in this NG who work as handymen etc
carry indemnity and/or public liability insurance? AFAIK most don't
have formal qualifications as plumbers or sparkies etc; doesn't that
make insurance companies run a mile?

I have £1M PII, and wouldn't leave home without it. I am considering
upping it to £2M - reason being that housing associations and letting
agents won't usually let you on site without that amount of cover.

The insurance was actually more straightforward than I imagined. Fill
in a form and it's yours. Bit like applying for a motor policy really.

I thought I would have difficulty with having not traded as a handyman
previously, nor as an active skilled trades person, but the question I
answered quite truthfully was "how long have you been practicing these
skills?". I could very honestly say 30+ years, because I'd been DIYing
since before I left school.

I've also got an OND Engineering, and when I took that sandwich course
(30 years ago) they kindly taught me useful things like plumbing. Now
okay, pushfit wasn't around in those day - but I still do all my
plumbing in compression or solder fittings (people say that pushfit is
really good, but I haven't got my confidence with it yet).

I am a qualified and experienced electronics engineer so can be relied
upon to know which end of a screwdriver goes in the screw head.

However, all that said, I know my limits. If someone says "full house
rewire" my reply is "get an electrician". If it's "new central heating
system" my reply is "I know a man that can". And so on.

Basically I'll take on any job which a reasonably competent DIY person
could do, but if it demands a skilled tradesman then that's not my
domain. I guess the rule of thumb I use is if it is described in the
Readers Digest DIY manual then I'm capable of doing it.

I'm also conscious of the regulations - so although I've plumbed in
and commissioned a CH system in days gone by there is no way I would
take such a job on - I'm not CORGI registered and wouldn't pretend to
be. With me you get what it says on the box.

PoP

If you really must use the email address provided
with my newsreader please be aware that the email
is processed with spamcop. As a result your email
to me might be treated as spam!

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2004 06:17:57 -0800, (Lobster)
wrote:

I'm curious - do most of the folk in this NG who work as handymen etc
carry indemnity and/or public liability insurance? AFAIK most don't
have formal qualifications as plumbers or sparkies etc; doesn't that
make insurance companies run a mile?

I have £1M PII, and wouldn't leave home without it. I am considering
upping it to £2M - reason being that housing associations and letting
agents won't usually let you on site without that amount of cover.

What does PII mean!?

Could I be so rude to ask how much that sort of cover is per year!?

Sparks...

"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2004 06:17:57 -0800, (Lobster)
wrote:

I'm curious - do most of the folk in this NG who work as handymen etc
carry indemnity and/or public liability insurance? AFAIK most don't
have formal qualifications as plumbers or sparkies etc; doesn't that
make insurance companies run a mile?

I have £1M PII, and wouldn't leave home without it. I am considering
upping it to £2M - reason being that housing associations and letting
agents won't usually let you on site without that amount of cover.

What does PII mean!?


proffesional indemnity insurance

In article ,
Sparks wrote:
I have £1M PII, and wouldn't leave home without it. I am considering
upping it to £2M - reason being that housing associations and letting
agents won't usually let you on site without that amount of cover.

What does PII mean!?

Could I be so rude to ask how much that sort of cover is per year!?

I get 'free' cover as part of my union (BECTU) membership, although I'm
freelance. Would cost about as much as the subscription to do it privately.
Perhaps other trade organisations do the same - although I realise there
might be more claims in the 'building' trade than mine.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:22:38 -0000, "Sparks" wrote:

What does PII mean!?

Professional Indemnity Insurance.

Could I be so rude to ask how much that sort of cover is per year!?

I paid £277 - as I found out afterwards £45 was the arrangement fee to
the insurance agent (b'std).

Insurer is Fortis.

PoP

If you really must use the email address provided
with my newsreader please be aware that the email
is processed with spamcop. As a result your email
to me might be treated as spam!

If you are sure that you can do the work properly, then there is no problem

dg


"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?

Thanks!

Sparks...

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Sparks" writes:
Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple
electrical
work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a
problem with this?

It's a question of competency. The workplace employer has a duty
to ensure only competent people work on the installation. There
is no definition of competency, so you need to be sure you can
defend your competency level in court (or more strictly, the
workplace employer does). Obviously, you would be very well
advised to make sure you have appropriate professional indemnity
insurance cover.

The employer I was working for when PAT testing and some other
legislation came in during the early 1990's decided they would
only emply NICEIC staff. After a couple of years of poor quality
work from all the NICEIC contractors, we changed the rules to
require contractors to bring relevant C&G qualifications along
on their first day on site. Most of the NICEIC companies could
not supply suitably qualified staff and we ended up using small
independant contractors, and got much higher quality work.

So it's really down the workplace employer to decide. There's
no legislation requiring particular qualifications or membership
in order to undertake electrical work for a business.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Hear, Hear as always common sense from Andrew. The only person who has to be
qualified in an ECA or NICEIC firm is the qualifying manager.

Steve Dawson

Fox Electrival Services Ltd
ECA registered and C & G qualified!!

In article , Chris
Oates none@?.? writes

"Sparks" wrote in message
. ..

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2004 06:17:57 -0800, (Lobster)
wrote:

I'm curious - do most of the folk in this NG who work as handymen etc
carry indemnity and/or public liability insurance? AFAIK most don't
have formal qualifications as plumbers or sparkies etc; doesn't that
make insurance companies run a mile?

I have £1M PII, and wouldn't leave home without it. I am considering
upping it to £2M - reason being that housing associations and letting
agents won't usually let you on site without that amount of cover.

What does PII mean!?


proffesional indemnity insurance
Sometimes known as professional indemnity insurance :-), but doesn't
just cover professionals, who arguably should not need it.



--
Andrew

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:06:40 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

Sometimes known as professional indemnity insurance :-), but doesn't
just cover professionals, who arguably should not need it.

Point taken, but if you have a Ltd company then you don't have any
choice AFAIK.

Mind you, it looks as though any small-time operator of a Ltd company
could be in for trouble in the forthcoming budget. Brown announced in
his recent pre-budget speech that he is going to bring in measures to
ensure that owners of incorporated companies will be paying the right
amount of tax. An IR36 pre-release if ever I heard it!

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

In article , PoP
writes
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:06:40 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

Sometimes known as professional indemnity insurance :-), but doesn't
just cover professionals, who arguably should not need it.

Point taken, but if you have a Ltd company then you don't have any
choice AFAIK.

Mind you, it looks as though any small-time operator of a Ltd company
could be in for trouble in the forthcoming budget. Brown announced in
his recent pre-budget speech that he is going to bring in measures to
ensure that owners of incorporated companies will be paying the right
amount of tax. An IR36 pre-release if ever I heard it!
I think it is officially IR591, but people I work with say that will
less of a burden on those shafted by IR35, but will clobber people who
are taking dividends but aren't liable to IR35. I shall give my
accountant a buzz and check it out.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

--
Andrew

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:54:09 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

I think it is officially IR591, but people I work with say that will
less of a burden on those shafted by IR35, but will clobber people who
are taking dividends but aren't liable to IR35. I shall give my
accountant a buzz and check it out.

I hope he's a bit more switched on than my accountant was originally.
When IR35 appeared he said "you're caught!". He used the rule "IT
Consultant = IR35'd".

I explained some facts of real life to him and he was persuaded that
maybe I was right - I've never signed up for IR35 - if they want to
take me on (based upon past IT contracts) they will have a fight on
their hands. And as PCG, QDOS and others have subsequently shown, IR35
is/was a voluntary tax.

I have a feeling that IR591 will not be so flimsy. We'll have to see
what Gay Gordon says in early April.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.