There's a bit of confusion about the new electrical regs which kick
into gear from next April, hopefully someone knowledgeable can fire
answers to the following questions.

I understand that the new regs will imply that any electrical work
undertaken will require a certificate to be issued. Question is, who
is going to be accepted as qualified to issue these certificates?

Someone I know thinks that only NICEIC members will be able to do this
job. And a conflicting argument is that you can issue certificates if
you have attended college and acquired C&G2391 (without needing to be
NICEIC certified) - part of the entrance qualifications for NICEIC is
C&G2391. Anyone know the definitive answer about whether NICEIC is an
absolute requirement before writing certificates?

A second question is with respect to the test gear that needs to be
acquired to perform the tests required to issue a certificate. The two
models which seem appropriate are the Robin KTS1610 and KTS1620, which
can be seen on this page:

http://www.alpha-electronics.com/offers.asp

Both test for loop impedance, RCD, insulation, continuity and voltage
measurement. The KTS1620 adds PSC. I'm ignoring the KTS1630 as it
seems to be the canines dangly bits in terms of measuring things you
didn't know you could measure.

Question is - is the KTS1610 (without PSC) suitable for testing to
issue a certificate for an installation?

PoP

yes the KTS1610 is suitable

loz

"PoP" wrote in message
...
There's a bit of confusion about the new electrical regs which kick
into gear from next April, hopefully someone knowledgeable can fire
answers to the following questions.

I understand that the new regs will imply that any electrical work
undertaken will require a certificate to be issued. Question is, who
is going to be accepted as qualified to issue these certificates?

Someone I know thinks that only NICEIC members will be able to do this
job. And a conflicting argument is that you can issue certificates if
you have attended college and acquired C&G2391 (without needing to be
NICEIC certified) - part of the entrance qualifications for NICEIC is
C&G2391. Anyone know the definitive answer about whether NICEIC is an
absolute requirement before writing certificates?

A second question is with respect to the test gear that needs to be
acquired to perform the tests required to issue a certificate. The two
models which seem appropriate are the Robin KTS1610 and KTS1620, which
can be seen on this page:

http://www.alpha-electronics.com/offers.asp

Both test for loop impedance, RCD, insulation, continuity and voltage
measurement. The KTS1620 adds PSC. I'm ignoring the KTS1630 as it
seems to be the canines dangly bits in terms of measuring things you
didn't know you could measure.

Question is - is the KTS1610 (without PSC) suitable for testing to
issue a certificate for an installation?

PoP

"LOZ34" wrote in message
...
yes the KTS1610 is suitable

loz

"PoP" wrote in message
...
There's a bit of confusion about the new electrical regs which kick
into gear from next April, hopefully someone knowledgeable can fire
answers to the following questions.

I understand that the new regs will imply that any electrical work
undertaken will require a certificate to be issued. Question is, who
is going to be accepted as qualified to issue these certificates?

Someone I know thinks that only NICEIC members will be able to do this
job. And a conflicting argument is that you can issue certificates if
you have attended college and acquired C&G2391 (without needing to be
NICEIC certified) - part of the entrance qualifications for NICEIC is
C&G2391. Anyone know the definitive answer about whether NICEIC is an
absolute requirement before writing certificates?

A second question is with respect to the test gear that needs to be
acquired to perform the tests required to issue a certificate. The two
models which seem appropriate are the Robin KTS1610 and KTS1620, which
can be seen on this page:

http://www.alpha-electronics.com/offers.asp

Both test for loop impedance, RCD, insulation, continuity and voltage
measurement. The KTS1620 adds PSC. I'm ignoring the KTS1630 as it
seems to be the canines dangly bits in terms of measuring things you
didn't know you could measure.

Question is - is the KTS1610 (without PSC) suitable for testing to
issue a certificate for an installation?

PoP




And how would you fill out the PSCC value on the Test Cert ??

"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

"LOZ34" wrote in message
...
yes the KTS1610 is suitable

loz


And how would you fill out the PSCC value on the Test Cert ??



you calculate it using the earth loop impedance and the supply voltage.

PSCC = Ze / supply voltage

LOZ

News Release 2003/0133:
15 July 2003

CRACKDOWN ON DANGEROUS ELECTRICAL WORK SUPPORTS GOVERNMENT'S FIRE PREVENTION
AGENDA
Tough, new controls on electrical work in the home will reduce deaths,
injuries and fires caused by defective installations and save the economy an
estimated £93m over ten years, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister
announced today.

The changes to the building regulations underline the Government's fire
prevention agenda - with the goal of preventing fires from starting in the
first place. This was set out in the recent White Paper 'Our Fire and Rescue
Service' and good building design is one of the key factors in effective
fire prevention.

The Government wants to curb the rising number of electrical accidents and
fires in the home by bringing electrical safety within the scope of the
building regulations for the first time.

But the success of the new controls, which could come into force by next
spring 2004, depends on the electrical industry coming forward with trade
certification schemes to test the competence of installers.

In recent years householders and their families have faced an increased risk
of injury from electric shock or fires caused by faults in fixed
installations or portable appliances. Many accidents are due to faulty
extension and alteration work, use of equipment that does not comply with
British Standards or misuse of portable appliances.

Properly designed, fitted and tested fixed installations offer protection
against these dangers. This is why the Government, having consulted with the
public and the construction industry, now wants national safety standards
reinforced by redefining work on fixed electrical installations in the home
as building work to bring them within the control of building regulations.
Parliamentary under Secretary Phil Hope, the Minister responsible for
building regulations, said in a written statement:

"Making householders aware of the need to protect themselves and their
families from incompetent workmanship is in line with our drive for better,
safer communities in which to live and work. The new measures will also
raise industry standards and contribute towards our aim of creating a
better-qualified workforce. They reinforce the emphasis in the Fire White
Paper published on 30 June of greater prevention of fires."

Notes to Editors
1. These regulatory proposals have been developed in response to the
Construction Industry Deregulation Task Force's 1995 report which
recommended amongst other things that the Building Regulations should
address electrical safety and that the administrative burden on builders
should be rationalised. The Government responded to these recommendations by
agreeing to review the case for new requirements and how they might best be
practically introduced.

2. The current Building Regulations for England & Wales (2000) do not
address the safety of fixed electrical systems in buildings. For the
purposes of Building Regulations a fixed electrical system means those parts
of the wiring and appliances that are fixed to the building fabric e.g.
sockets, switches, fuse-boxes, immersion heaters and ceiling fittings.

3. The hazards posed by unsafe electrical installations and portable
appliances are electric shock and injuries arising from fires in buildings
ignited by electrical components overheating or arcing. Installations
properly designed, fitted, tested and commissioned in accordance with BS7671
will help to minimise these risks.

4. Each year an average of 30 people die and about 1150 are seriously
injured in accidents involving defective fixed electrical installations in
the home, including fires caused by such installations.

5. It is believed that risks from unsafe electrical installations have
increased over recent years due to:

Rising numbers and variety of electrical systems and appliances in buildings
plus increased demands being made on them

Privatisation of the supply industry in 1988 leading to fewer electrical
supplier interventions in consumer installations.

Voluntary self-regulation schemes provide excellent support for existing
subscribers but do not always reach the independents or small businesses
that have grown rapidly in number since the recession of the early 1990s.

6. Electrical accident rates in houses have risen and compare with those for
carbon monoxide poising, gas explosions and collisions with glass - all of
which are covered by the Regulations.

7. British Standard 7671 Requirements for Electrical Installations: the IEE
Wiring Regulations is the principal British Standard that covers the safe
design, installation and testing of electrical installations in building
systems and it is the technical standard almost universally specified in UK
contracts for electrical installation work. It would be the basis for
approved technical guidance if electrical requirements were to be introduced
into the Building Regulations.

8. Regulations are considered necessary to bolster the existing voluntary
schemes because:

Existing voluntary schemes have attracted less than one quarter of
electrical

Large numbers of jobbing electricians and the DIY market are beyond the
reach of voluntary controls

10. The Building Regulations 2000: Proposals for amending Schedule 1 to
introduce electrical safety requirements is available on the DTLR website.

11. Paper copies of the electrical safety consultation package can be
obtained from: DTLR Free Literature, PO Box 236, Wetherby, West Yorkshire,
LS23 7NB; Tel: 0870 1226236; Fax: 0870 1226237; Textphone: 0870 1207405;
e-mail: . The product code is 02BR00015.

Press Enquiries: 020 7944 3042
Out of Hours: 020 7944 5945
E-mail:
Public Enquiries: 020 7944 4400
ODPM website: http://www.odpm.gov.uk/

Published 15 July 2003

"LOZ34" wrote in message
...

you calculate it using the earth loop impedance and the supply
voltage.
PSCC = Ze / supply voltage

Obviously you meant to write that the other way up, PSSC = Uo / Ze (where Uo
is the supply voltage).

It could still be wrong though: Ze is the earth fault loop impedance at the
supply terminals, so what you are calculating is the prospective earth fault
current. This is only the same as the PSSC in a TN-C-S (PME) supply. On
TN-S and TT systems the supply impedance (between phase and neutral) will
usually be lower than Ze.

IOW to determine the PSSC at the origin of a non-PME supply you must do the
loop test between phase & neutral, not phase & earth, then divide the
measured value into 230 V.

--
Andy

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:37:02 +0100, PoP
wrote:

I understand that the new regs will imply that any electrical work
undertaken will require a certificate to be issued. Question is, who
is going to be accepted as qualified to issue these certificates?

Not wishing to appear too simplistic [:-))] but will this mean that
something like changing a faceplate over a socket will be covered ?

"more honoured in the breach than the observance" should be the logo
for these new proposed regs.

"No-one" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:37:02 +0100, PoP
wrote:

I understand that the new regs will imply that any electrical work
undertaken will require a certificate to be issued. Question is, who
is going to be accepted as qualified to issue these certificates?

Not wishing to appear too simplistic [:-))] but will this mean that
something like changing a faceplate over a socket will be covered ?


According to the NIC inspector I use, you will be able to change the socket
faceplate without a certificate but if you change a socket from single to
double you are performing an installation and so need a certificate.

Adam

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 22:06:14 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

In recent years householders and their families have faced an increased risk
of injury from electric shock or fires caused by faults in fixed
installations or portable appliances. Many accidents are due to faulty
extension and alteration work, use of equipment that does not comply with
British Standards or misuse of portable appliances.

Properly designed, fitted and tested fixed installations offer protection
against these dangers.

Just how does all of this deal with misuse of portable appliances ?

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...

"No-one" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:37:02 +0100, PoP
wrote:

I understand that the new regs will imply that any electrical work
undertaken will require a certificate to be issued. Question is, who
is going to be accepted as qualified to issue these certificates?

Not wishing to appear too simplistic [:-))] but will this mean that
something like changing a faceplate over a socket will be covered ?


According to the NIC inspector I use, you will be able to change the socket
faceplate without a certificate but if you change a socket from single to
double you are performing an installation and so need a certificate.

Well let us hope that all 'inspectors' aren't this clueless then.

AIUI the installation of a complete new spur is a 'small modification'
under the new rules and as such does not need certification, so
changing a face plate most certainly doesn't.

However, (and yes I know this record is worn out), it is this
'loophole' that will make the incident of wrong installations more
likely with the new rules as now unknowledgeable people will
install spurs for themselves because the cost of having a
'professional' do the work will be unaffordable due to the costs
of the new regs

tim
..



Adam

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:18:22 +0200, "tim"
wrote:



Well let us hope that all 'inspectors' aren't this clueless then.

AIUI the installation of a complete new spur is a 'small modification'
under the new rules and as such does not need certification, so
changing a face plate most certainly doesn't.

However, (and yes I know this record is worn out), it is this
'loophole' that will make the incident of wrong installations more
likely with the new rules as now unknowledgeable people will
install spurs for themselves because the cost of having a
'professional' do the work will be unaffordable due to the costs
of the new regs

tim
.


I rather suspect thsat unknoweldgable people won't even know that
there are any new rules so will proceed as before.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

According to the NIC inspector I use, you will be able to change the
socket
faceplate without a certificate but if you change a socket from single
to
double you are performing an installation and so need a certificate.

Well let us hope that all 'inspectors' aren't this clueless then.

AIUI the installation of a complete new spur is a 'small modification'
under the new rules and as such does not need certification, so
changing a face plate most certainly doesn't.

However, (and yes I know this record is worn out), it is this
'loophole' that will make the incident of wrong installations more
likely with the new rules as now unknowledgeable people will
install spurs for themselves because the cost of having a
'professional' do the work will be unaffordable due to the costs
of the new regs

tim

I never mentioned adding a spur.

Adam

"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:18:22 +0200, "tim"
wrote:



Well let us hope that all 'inspectors' aren't this clueless then.

AIUI the installation of a complete new spur is a 'small modification'
under the new rules and as such does not need certification, so
changing a face plate most certainly doesn't.

However, (and yes I know this record is worn out), it is this
'loophole' that will make the incident of wrong installations more
likely with the new rules as now unknowledgeable people will
install spurs for themselves because the cost of having a
'professional' do the work will be unaffordable due to the costs
of the new regs

tim
.


I rather suspect thsat unknoweldgable people won't even know that
there are any new rules so will proceed as before.

But it's been reported in the newspaper!

Tim



.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:20:46 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

According to the NIC inspector I use, you will be able to change the socket
faceplate without a certificate but if you change a socket from single to
double you are performing an installation and so need a certificate.

Unless in a kitchen or bathroom, in which case the new regs apply and
certificates are required (okay, so the likelihood of changing a
socket from single to double in a bathroom is very unlikely, but it is
certainly possible in a kitchen).

PoP

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:41:33 +0100, No-one
wrote:

Not wishing to appear too simplistic [:-))] but will this mean that
something like changing a faceplate over a socket will be covered ?

Depends whether it is a "minor" change. If it is a change within the
kitchen or bathroom then (apparently) the new regs kick into gear.

Referring to the original post for a moment, just who is going to be c
considered as competent to issue a certificate? Someone with C&G2391,
someone with NICEIC registration? Anyone who has made a political
donation to the Labour Party?

PoP

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...
News Release 2003/0133:
15 July 2003


Big Wallop quoted:

6. Electrical accident rates in houses have risen and compare with those
for
carbon monoxide poising, gas explosions and collisions with glass - all of
which are covered by the Regulations.

Are collisions with glass enforced by the building regulations in the same
way as proposed for the electrical regulations? If you break a pane of
ordinary low level glass (which might date from the 1940's), presumably you
need to replace it with safety glass - but would you need to involve
building control or an approved installer? (I am talking about replacing a
pane of glass, not replacing the window which of course would require
building control or a fensa installer).

James



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 18/08/2003

Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:28:48 +0200, "tim"
wrote:

However, (and yes I know this record is worn out), it is this
'loophole' that will make the incident of wrong installations more
likely with the new rules as now unknowledgeable people will
install spurs for themselves because the cost of having a
'professional' do the work will be unaffordable due to the costs
of the new regs

tim
.


I rather suspect thsat unknoweldgable people won't even know that
there are any new rules so will proceed as before.

But it's been reported in the newspaper!

Tim


Yeeees!...... and......

I think that a significant issue here is that the materials to do
electrical work have been widely available in the retail sector since
the year dot and people are used to buying it and doing what they want
to do. If you compare it with double glazing or even gas fitting,
these have never been such popular DIY tasks and materials, although
available are not *so* available.

Consider the amount of shelf space given to electrical fittings and
cables in B&Q. They also have fairly substantial plumbing sections,
which also carry some of the basic materials needed for gas fitting,
but mixed in with the rest.

Since the materials to do minor works are largely a subset of what is
used for comprehensive electrical work, it would be hard to
differentiate. It will be interesting to see whether consumer units
and the bits that fit them will disappear from DIY stores - I somehow
doubt it.

I am more and more inclined to think that this legislation is going to
fail.
Gas fitting and Window replacment are not normally considered beginner
level jobs.
Changing a light fitting is something many people will have a go at,
similary changing a bathroom pull cord switch is seen as fairly striaght
forward. I just can't see how the law will be enforced.

The only time in practise that the matter is likely to come up against
any difficulty is during conveyancing and then only if
A) A surveyor spots something glaringly irregular - even less likely
with a simple valuation survey.
OR
B) A culture of getting everything checked (Gas, Plumbing, Electrics,
Timber, Structure...) and certified on paper becomes the norm during
conveyancing.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:28:48 +0200, "tim"
wrote:

However, (and yes I know this record is worn out), it is this
'loophole' that will make the incident of wrong installations more
likely with the new rules as now unknowledgeable people will
install spurs for themselves because the cost of having a
'professional' do the work will be unaffordable due to the costs
of the new regs

tim
.


I rather suspect thsat unknoweldgable people won't even know that
there are any new rules so will proceed as before.

But it's been reported in the newspaper!

Tim


Yeeees!...... and......

sorry Andy I wasn't being serious.....

I think that a significant issue here is that the materials to do
electrical work have been widely available in the retail sector since
the year dot and people are used to buying it and doing what they want
to do. If you compare it with double glazing or even gas fitting,
these have never been such popular DIY tasks and materials, although
available are not *so* available.

Consider the amount of shelf space given to electrical fittings and
cables in B&Q. They also have fairly substantial plumbing sections,
which also carry some of the basic materials needed for gas fitting,
but mixed in with the rest.

Since the materials to do minor works are largely a subset of what is
used for comprehensive electrical work, it would be hard to
differentiate. It will be interesting to see whether consumer units
and the bits that fit them will disappear from DIY stores - I somehow
doubt it.

I am more and more inclined to think that this legislation is going to
fail.
Gas fitting and Window replacment are not normally considered beginner
level jobs.
Changing a light fitting is something many people will have a go at,
similary changing a bathroom pull cord switch is seen as fairly striaght
forward. I just can't see how the law will be enforced.

It will be enforced by a solictor asking "have you done any of the
following work on your electrics when you come te sell, In the same
way I'm having to do for my DG.

Of course, if I were to lie it would be much harder to find out
and if I tell the truth that I have but didn't get the work certified,
all that is needed is for me to get the BCO to certify it retrospectively.
So, as has been said before the much simpler solution is to insist on
a wiring check when you want to sell a house.

tim

The only time in practise that the matter is likely to come up against
any difficulty is during conveyancing and then only if
A) A surveyor spots something glaringly irregular - even less likely
with a simple valuation survey.
OR
B) A culture of getting everything checked (Gas, Plumbing, Electrics,
Timber, Structure...) and certified on paper becomes the norm during
conveyancing.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In article ,
PoP writes:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:41:33 +0100, No-one
wrote:

Not wishing to appear too simplistic [:-))] but will this mean that
something like changing a faceplate over a socket will be covered ?

Depends whether it is a "minor" change. If it is a change within the
kitchen or bathroom then (apparently) the new regs kick into gear.

Referring to the original post for a moment, just who is going to be c
considered as competent to issue a certificate? Someone with C&G2391,
someone with NICEIC registration?

NICEIC registration, and possibly ECA too.

Being a qualified electrician won't count, if the legislation
matches the draft. Remember, the legislation is nothing to do
with improving quality of electrical installations -- there
were easier and much cheaper ways to do that (as done in
Scotland), nor about saving lives (government's own RIA predicts
it will save only 0.8 lives per year, which is just noise).
It's all about the government bowing over to the vested interests.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 1 Sep 2003 15:03:40 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

NICEIC registration, and possibly ECA too.

That's just great for someone who hasn't been trading for very long.

According to their web siteNICEIC registration requires that you show
12 months history, and they select random jobs from the last six
months of work to inspect.

How one is supposed to get even six months of work for inspection
given that you can't take the job on in the first place without it
being certificated is beyond me. Sounds like a massive closed shop
deal.

PoP

....
According to the NIC inspector I use, you will be able to change the
socket
faceplate without a certificate but if you change a socket from
single
to
double you are performing an installation and so need a certificate.

Well let us hope that all 'inspectors' aren't this clueless then.

AIUI the installation of a complete new spur is a 'small modification'
under the new rules and as such does not need certification, so
changing a face plate most certainly doesn't.

However, (and yes I know this record is worn out), it is this
'loophole' that will make the incident of wrong installations more
likely with the new rules as now unknowledgeable people will
install spurs for themselves because the cost of having a
'professional' do the work will be unaffordable due to the costs
of the new regs

tim

I never mentioned adding a spur.

No you didn't but you said (that you were told) "performing an
installation" required certification. In what way is adding a spur
(presumably with a socket at the end of it) not an "installation"
when changing a box from single to double is.


He (inspector) believes that under the new regs adding a spur will require a
certificate. But he would say that of course.

He also said that the way things are written for the new regs then you can
change a light fiting without a problem but you would need a certificate to
change a pendant to several downlighters.

I'm not getting at you here, you're only reporting what you've
been told. However, unfortunately, the person telling you got it
wrong and it's very worring that that person who got it wrong
is the person who's supposed to be overseeing everyone else
(ok some other group of people) getting it right.

We will have to see what ******** the legislation makes. I am sure that the
inspector did not find his NIC card in a cornflakes packet.

Adam

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 17:32:16 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

The following are MY interpretation - I may be wrong, but I have
(tried to....) read the new regs gumph.

He (inspector) believes that under the new regs adding a spur will require a
certificate. But he would say that of course.

That's my understanding too.

He also said that the way things are written for the new regs then you can
change a light fiting without a problem but you would need a certificate to
change a pendant to several downlighters.

Nearly right. If the light fitting is in a bathroom or kitchen then a
certificate will be required. Any electrical work in said rooms must
be certificated.

We will have to see what ******** the legislation makes.

It has already made round spherical objects.

I am sure that the inspector did not find his NIC card in a
cornflakes packet.

I'm sure your inspector is one of the good guys. However some of the
work I've had to get involved in was presumably carried out by a
qualified tradesman aka a NIC card holder. And I can say for sure that
the card is meaningless in terms of advising whether you are good or
bad at the job, it just means that you managed to get a NIC card.

PoP

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 17:19:49 +0100, PoP
wrote:

On 1 Sep 2003 15:03:40 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

NICEIC registration, and possibly ECA too.

That's just great for someone who hasn't been trading for very long.

According to their web siteNICEIC registration requires that you show
12 months history, and they select random jobs from the last six
months of work to inspect.

How one is supposed to get even six months of work for inspection
given that you can't take the job on in the first place without it
being certificated is beyond me. Sounds like a massive closed shop
deal.

PoP

Following the announcement in July, I wrote again to my MP, John
Redwood, on the subject. He in turn wrote to Jeff Rooker and
eventually a reply was provided by Nick Raynsford, Minister of State
for Local and Regional Government. I received a copy of this with a
covering letter from John Redwood last week.

I won't include all of Nick Raynsford's letter - the preamble is a
repeat of what is on the ODPM web site, but herewith a few paragraphs:

"Electrical installers will have two ways to comply with the new
requirements. They may choose to become a member of a competent person
scheme. Such members will need to demonstrate that they have the
competence to carry out work to the standards of BS7671 (the Wiring
Regulations) before they will be able to join a scheme. If they can
demonstrate this they will be able to self-certify their work complies
with the B uilding Regulations without having to submit a building
notice to the local authority or pay a building control fee. There
is likely to be an annual fee to join such a scheme but until
applications to operate such schemes are received I cannot tell you
what such fees might be.

The alternative is to submit a building notice the the local authority
and pay a building control fee. All DIY work will need to follow this
route. It will be for electrical installers to decide on the basis of
what is most suitable for their business whether to join a competent
person scheme or use the local authority route. Where the local
authority route is followed it will be for building control officers
to inspect an installation and make sure that it is safe.

Mr. Hall is concerned that building control officers will not be able
to provide all the support and inspection required. It is true that
most local authorities would not have this expertise at the moment.
We anticipate that much of the electrical installation work done will
be done by members of competent person schemes and local authorities
will not normally need to inspect it. All local authority building
control departments will, however, need to train staff to deal with
electrical installation work and, where necessary, contract with
outside experts to help them. At the very least they will need to
deal with all notifiable DIY work.

The Government is of course mindful that the electrical contraacting
industry and householders should not be overburdened by unnecessary
regulation. We have therefore decided to exempt much minor electrical
work from notification under the new requirements - for example,
adding additional power points, spurs or lighting fixtures to an
existing circuit - as the risk to safety is low. Much of this work
is typically done on a DIY basis and in this respect will continue as
at present. Because of the increased risk all electrical work in
kitchens and bathrooms will be notifiable.

The Government recognise that that there will be some extra costs for
both householders and electrical installers from these new
requirements. In most cases the extra costs should be relatively
modest. We believe they will be justified by the reduction in
deaths, injuries and fires. As the new requirements will affect all
carry out electrical installation work, including that done on a DIY
basis, small electrical contractors should not be placed at a
competitive disadvantage because of their introduction."

From John Redwood's letter:

"I have had the attached very unsatisfactory reply for the Deputy
Prime Minister's Office about new rules for electrical safety in
domestic buildings.

The Minister tells us that the reason for introducing the new
requirements is to reduce the number of fatal accidents, injuries and
fires caused by faulty installations. Effectively, this government's
plans will mean we will all have to pay more for any electrical work
to be carried out, whether by submitting a notice to the local
authority, or hiring an electrical firm to do the work. It will also
result in more bureaucracy, red tape and delays as Councils struggle
to cope with the increase in applications and inspections.

Please be assured I will continue to press the government hard to
consider workable alternatives which will address safety without
unnecessary bureaucratic expense."





..andy

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