In article , S Viemeister wrote:
Piggy-backing on your post - Are the new regulations for England
and Wales only, or will they apply to Scotland as well?

I don't pretend to know the details but electrical installations
have been part of the Scottish Building Regs for a long while
(though at a pure guess perhaps only when part of a larger job).
From a quick Google:

"8. IS IT NECESSARY TO OBTAIN A CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION WHEN MY
BUILDING WORK IS FINISHED?

Yes. You should complete and return to your local authority an
application for a certificate of completion, together with a
certificate of compliance for the electrical installation where
appropriate when the warrant work is complete"

http://www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/d..._questions.htm

So this would suggest that if you build something like an extension
they will want to see a test certificate

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

In article ,
Tony Bryer writes:
In article , S Viemeister wrote:
Piggy-backing on your post - Are the new regulations for England
and Wales only, or will they apply to Scotland as well?

I don't pretend to know the details but electrical installations
have been part of the Scottish Building Regs for a long while
(though at a pure guess perhaps only when part of a larger job).
From a quick Google:

"8. IS IT NECESSARY TO OBTAIN A CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION WHEN MY
BUILDING WORK IS FINISHED?

Yes. You should complete and return to your local authority an
application for a certificate of completion, together with a
certificate of compliance for the electrical installation where
appropriate when the warrant work is complete"

http://www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/d..._questions.htm

So this would suggest that if you build something like an extension
they will want to see a test certificate

You can do this test certificate yourself though.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Tony Bryer wrote:


http://www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/d..._questions.htm

Thank you for the link - Highland Council covers my area!

Sheila

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:30:46 +0100, dave wrote:

I seen a few posts recently that mention a change I the law relating to who is
allowed to install/test (domestic) electrical wiring.

As I am many years out of date with much of today's regs could someone please
reply respond these queries:

Is there indeed a change in the law coming up? When?

Potentially next April unless something (hopefully) bad happens to the
government in the meantime.


If so, just who will be legally allowed to do the work?

Anybody will be allowed to do the work - BUTmembers of NICEIC will be
able to self certify compliance with a proposed new part P to the
Building Regulations. Other mortals will have to execute a building
notice at their local authority building control department, which
will carry a fee. That will apply to other professionals carrying out
electrical work or to DIY.



What qualifications (and or level experience) are to be accepted?

Is such a person required to provided to the customer, documentation indicating
the work has be carried out to ? specification? If so I guess the installer
*has* to have third party insurance.

Take a look at the ODPM and NICEIC web sites for full details.


I've also heard on TV news that house sellers will be required to provide a
cert. to the buyer to say that the house has been "tested" or in some way
complies with the regs.
a) What regs?

In effect BS7671.

b) Seller pays?

Almost certainly, but then it will be reflected in prices.

c) Much work for "testers" = good? Bad for unqualified but well-experienced
people = much friction?

I suspect much ignoring and unenforcability, therefore pointless.

d) Views on how this may pan-out - will it be watered down so many existing
unqualified people with elec. business will be still be able to continue their
work?

I think that BCOs are going to love it.




A personal bit OT:
I qualified back in the good old days of 1975. (5 year apprentice served and
CGLI Full Tech Cert.). I've been thinking about returning to doing electrical
work - maybe part-time. My training was in heavy industrial
electrics/electronics but included little domestic work - although I have done
some. I have the On-Site guild and most of that seems clear enough (apart from
the fun and games with the inevitable earthing arrangements :-) . No doubt my
qualifications will be completely usless today, but I wonder, does it mean I
shall have to re-qualify in order to begin domestic electrical installation
work?

What publications and courses should I be looking at?

Look at the NICEIC web site. They are operating the closed shop on
behalf of Napoleon Prescott.


(Aside: I have a degree in elec. eng. but that probably too is irrelevant to
performing legally certified domestic installations with this latest
legislation?)

Anyone living in the Nottingham area interested in maybe teaming up? Must not be
afraid of hard work, honest, conscientious GSOH and have own tools (no rip-off
artists or cowboys need apply :-) )

Many thanks

..andy

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On 22 Aug 2003 15:04:13 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

You can do this test certificate yourself though.

Can't speak for Scotland, but I was under the impression that when the
sh!t hits the fan in April 2004, when the new regs come in, that you
could only certificate an installation if you had C&G2391 behind you.

Or have I read this wrong?

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

In article ,
Andrew McKay writes:
On 22 Aug 2003 15:04:13 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

You can do this test certificate yourself though.

Can't speak for Scotland, but I was under the impression that when the

I was speaking for Scotland -- this is not what's planned for
the rest of the UK. By the way, you would be very silly to do
so if you were not competent with C&G2391 or equivalant behind
you. FWIW, I think Scotland did things right.

sh!t hits the fan in April 2004, when the new regs come in, that you
could only certificate an installation if you had C&G2391 behind you.

Or have I read this wrong?

You read it wrong - you just need to work for an NICEIC firm,
no qualifications required. The firm needs someone qualified
on the staff when they they join NICEIC, but as I said before,
when we were looking for qualified electricians, none of the
NICEIC firms we had been using had any qualified staff left.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 22 Aug 2003 16:54:59 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

I was speaking for Scotland -- this is not what's planned for
the rest of the UK. By the way, you would be very silly to do
so if you were not competent with C&G2391 or equivalant behind
you. FWIW, I think Scotland did things right.

Thanks for the confirmation. I have just applied to join the next
C&G2391 course at the local college. If I get through then great, if I
don't then at least being aware of what is involved will be helpful to
me.

You read it wrong - you just need to work for an NICEIC firm,
no qualifications required. The firm needs someone qualified
on the staff when they they join NICEIC, but as I said before,
when we were looking for qualified electricians, none of the
NICEIC firms we had been using had any qualified staff left.

My intention is to try and meet the NICEIC requirements which are
detailed on this web page:

http://www.niceic.org.uk/nonapproved/requirements.html

The only part I might expect to have difficulty with is with respect
to "make available for assessment sufficient completed electrical work
across the range normally undertaken. The work must have been carried
out during the previous six months .....". I won't be applying to
NICEIC for at least six months, and in that period I have no idea how
many light fittings (and similarly scoped) projects I might have
worked on. It could be zero or more.

It isn't and has never been my intention that I will work on the full
range of electrical installation work. I restrict myself to performing
the basic electrical jobs around the home, replace light fittings,
broken sockets, maybe even the odd extra spur to a ring main.

That should keep the NICEIC drone happy

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

Andrew McKay wrote in message . ..

My intention is to try and meet the NICEIC requirements which are
detailed on this web page:

http://www.niceic.org.uk/nonapproved/requirements.html


This is almost certainly me being thick, but...

"NICEIC Approved Contractors are required to have traded, directly
undertaking electrical installation work, for at least twelve months
under its existing trading title, although this period may reduce to 6
months from April 2003"

How is that going to work from April 2004, when you (supposedly) can't
do the work unless you are in the NICEIC? How would anyone "start" in
the trade? Can't join the NICEIC because you have no experience; can't
get any experience because you're not in the NICEIC...

Cheers,
David.

On 27 Aug 2003 05:52:50 -0700, (David
Robinson) wrote:

Andrew McKay wrote in message . ..

My intention is to try and meet the NICEIC requirements which are
detailed on this web page:

http://www.niceic.org.uk/nonapproved/requirements.html


This is almost certainly me being thick, but...

"NICEIC Approved Contractors are required to have traded, directly
undertaking electrical installation work, for at least twelve months
under its existing trading title, although this period may reduce to 6
months from April 2003"

How is that going to work from April 2004, when you (supposedly) can't
do the work unless you are in the NICEIC? How would anyone "start" in
the trade? Can't join the NICEIC because you have no experience; can't
get any experience because you're not in the NICEIC...


Seems like the proverbial chicken and egg, doesn't it?

As I read it there would be two ways:-

1) Join a NICEIC approved firm and train under supervision - i.e. an
apprenticeship kind of idea

2) Go it alone, and have work inspected by an approved inspector each
time. This needs understanding customers of course. Then after 6
months apply to NICEIC.


..andy

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