"IMM" wrote in message
...

De-restrict planning and redistribute land and the area will prosper.

Rubbish!!

Anything you do there is twice to ten times as expensive as anywhere
else, because its miles away from anything that needs doing.

Salt Lake City is the most ridiculous place to put a city. The lake is a
40
mile wide ditch. Some religious freak said this is where we build because
he was tired of travelling and up came SLC. The city is the centre and
all
revolves around it.


The main rule about all rules is there are always exceptions. I don't know
enough about SLC to know if there were any other good reasons to settle
there so I can't comment on it specifically. It does not however follow
that because of that if you provide the houses the people will come!

Didn't you have a PC back in the times of games like Civilisation, etc.?
YOU NEED RESOURCES .....



a

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
al wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

LOL ... I've just read this posting thinking it was IMM and being quite
impressed for him presenting some actual facts for once! But of course
I
now see it wasn't him after looking properly


And that game is teh boom and bust game. If firms simplyopen up
elsewhere, london will empty and prices come crashing down.


I don't see it happening in my lifetime! Actually - it better not now
that
I've bought!

BTW, many firms do open up elsewhere. Look at the major technology
firms
lining the M4 corridor and around Glasgow. The other UK cities also
have
their fair share of head offices, etc. too. Just not as high a density
of
them.

Glasgow is not a bad town really. Apart from being wet cold dark and
gloomy in winter.

And drunken violent people. Ever see the rubber men of Sochihall St?

Bristol is another one I have a bit of affection for.

Leeds looks nice, but I haven't been there long enough...and I enjoyed
staying in Leicester once for a couple of weeks.

Oxford and Cambridge have gone loony left and are not worth visitng
anymore.

Bath is still - Bath!

I hated Brussels.
Copenhagen is utter ****e.
Some people like New York, but you can keep it as far as I am concerned.
Ditto Paris.
Orelans looked nice, but I never had time to find out...
Prague is worth a look.
Dublin is worth getting ****ed in. Fine museum.
Seville...now I could get used to Seville...








a







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IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:



Salt Lake City is the most ridiculous place to put a city. The lake is

a 40

mile wide ditch. Some religious freak said this is where we build

because

he was tired of travelling and up came SLC. The city is the centre and

all

revolves around it.


It does have water


The city is not on the ditch!


however. AND its bang on a big trans-america route.


The communications came because of the town, now city.



No, actually they did not. Read your history.

Getting across the high plains of the USA was about getting from one
waterhole to the next by and large. Salt lake and other towns are there
because they had some sort of water supply, or were on established wagon
trails...usually because the going was easier etc etc.

Of course, once established, railroads were built and they became trade
centers as a result.

But before that they were stopover places on the way from the upper
reaches of the missisipi/missouri rivers, to the west coast..

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
If Phoney Liar really believes in the wired-up society then close the
houses of parliament and send MPs home to their constits, where they
can use video conferencing instead. Maybe BT would then give adsl to
those parts of the UK still without it.

Why bother ... it's not like working in the capitol costs the blood-sucking
cretins anything in the first place!! They apparently aren't even going to
pay the congestion charge. I mean £5 a day for someone on a basic salary of
£70k+ (never mind the other perks) is obviously far too much to ask of them!
And don't suggest they use the public transport they try to ram down our
necks, you might start a revolution



a

"al" wrote in message
...

De-restrict planning and redistribute land and the area will prosper.

Rubbish!!

Why not?

Salt Lake City is the most ridiculous
place to put a city. The lake is a
40 mile wide ditch. Some religious freak
said this is where we build because
he was tired of travelling and up came SLC.
The city is the centre and all
revolves around it.

The main rule about all rules is there are always exceptions. I don't
know
enough about SLC to know if there were any other good reasons to settle
there so I can't comment on it specifically. It does not however follow
that because of that if you provide the houses the people will come!

That is what happened in Milton Keynes. They built the house gave financial
incentives to companies and it took off like a rocket. The secret was that
they designed and built the place properly. It is still expanding like
mad.




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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Really? Coming from you that is....hypocritical beyond belief...

You will be voting Liberal next!



And when have I resorted to slagging off people? I have my own opinions,
sometimes strong, but I accept other people have their own and it's just as
valid for them.



a

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:

Salt Lake City is the most ridiculous place to put a city. The lake is
a 40 mile wide ditch. Some religious freak said this is where we build
because he was tired of travelling and up came SLC. The city is the
centre and
all evolves around it.

It does have water

The city is not on the ditch!

however. AND its bang on a big trans-america route.
The communications came because of the town, now city.

No, actually they did not. Read your history.

I spent 6 months there. The locals say it is a silly place to put a city,
although the Rockies rise at the side of it and there are some ski resorts
there now.



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al wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

The point is I used to live in London. And I never went to the the pubs,
clubs, museums, theatres, or use the public transport much, or met any
open minded people.

Largely, I was so knackered in dealing with the mechanics of stayng
alive, and had so little cash left, that I sued to get home, shut teh
door, and go to bed.


Sounds like you had a hectic job ...


Actually in the end I was commuting out of London to Royston and back
each day.....I never actually WORKED in london. Strange, isn't it?




Now, living aboyt as far away timewise from teh West End as I used to on
North London, although I live in Suffolk, I find the occasional trip to
Londomn to todo all that stuff is actually quicker...

And teh pubs are here, if I want them, but generally I don't. In short,
I don't miss a single thing. I wake up on Sunday when the first car of
the day goes past at 12 o clock, on its way to the pub....and rejoiice.


I choose to live in London not because I work here but because I want

to.

Some people like the quiet life - I don't.

Well I jolly well DO.



Good for you - at least someone can do what they feel makes them happy
without worrying about what others believe is right for everyone!! Some
days I too like the peace and quiet, some days I like to let it rip a
little. Maybe we should meet for a quiet pint in a busy club or a hard
night out in an quiet country pub. What's better - the middle ground or
alternate extremes! ;o)


Alternate extremes, but mostly just one extreme.

If you REALLY want to see what life is all about, take a trip to the
African bush. Its amazing what you DON'T need, and even more amazing hen
you discover what is left of yourself when totally divorced from 'modern
society'

Mind blowing.

I prefer to be right in, or right out, of a city. I hate the middle
ground with a passion.

I livbe as you may have gathered in East Anglia.

Someone remarked that East anglia was nice, because it isn't on the way
to anywhere else. If you come here, its to be here.

I have remarked, that people are here, by and large, because they WANT
to be here, or are born here. No one comes to suffolk to make their
fortunes, or advance their careers. Either they have made a fortune, or
stopped trying, or indeed never started.

Therefore people here are not competing with you. They are just 'here'
and so are you.

This gives a unique flavour to the place. The home counties are FULL of
sharp elbowed suits, nattering on about their cars, their careers, and
how much money they are making. Personally I find such people utter bores.










a

"al" wrote in message
...
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
If Phoney Liar really believes in the wired-up society then close the
houses of parliament and send MPs home to their constits, where they
can use video conferencing instead. Maybe BT would then give adsl to
those parts of the UK still without it.

Why bother ... it's not like working in the capitol costs the
blood-sucking
cretins anything in the first place!! They apparently aren't even going
to
pay the congestion charge. I mean £5 a day for someone on a basic salary
of
£70k+ (never mind the other perks) is obviously far too much to ask of
them!
And don't suggest they use the public transport they try to ram down our
necks, you might start a revolution

Get out your car and stop polluting. use public transport. I can't stand
polluting whingers like you who think they have to go everywhere in their
cars. Ken is right. Just about every major city in the world is thinking
of copying Ken.


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"IMM" wrote in message
...

So true. I know many well priced restaurants in London, but you have to
know
where they are.

Yikes ... I'm agreeing with IMM now ... ;P

Paris is a much nicer people friendly city than London. Berlin, SF all
have
something London just lacks.

PARIS!?!?!!! You've got to be joking! Pretty yes - friendly no! Berlin
has incredible architecture. SF is a great great place - almost seems to
layed back to be called a city. But I couldn't live in the USA (SF is about
the best choice though!).


I love Ken. He is fab! He is the only one attempting to make London a
kind
of people friendly place. His aim is to make the quality of life of the
people much better. the problem with London is that those who made the
most
money from it lived in villages in Surrey and couldn't give a hoot about
the
place. Ken want those who prosper most from London to be Londoners (those
that live there).

He does have some good ideas and at least stands up for what he believes in.
I respect him for that. I really respect him for his stance over that
un-elected imbecile visiting the Queen a while ago! His war on drivers
angers me. If public transport was a quarter of the price, reliable and
fast (Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Luxembourg and many others manage to
some extent!) I'd be more on his side.

If you want your small town car driving, go to a small town.

I enjoy driving too much to give it up. I don't drive out of laziness. I
drive for fun when I can.


London has some awful dilapidated property. Whole areas of it. It amazes
me
when the London based press have a go at Liverpool. They really must have
selective amnesia when looking around London. Or are these the Surrey
villages who only see the City rail stations and their own village?


All cities have their badly designed ****-holes. London has many. But
again, the smart buyer can avoid and can live in perfectly acceptable
quality without being made of money.



a

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

The home counties are FULL of
sharp elbowed suits, nattering on about their cars, their careers, and
how much money they are making. Personally I find such people utter bores.

The kettle and pot and black. You were going on about making a load of
lolly.


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"IMM" wrote in message
...
LOL ... I've just read this posting thinking it was IMM and being quite
impressed for him presenting some actual facts for once!

I am a highly factual person. I also "know".


Damn .... you used quotes ... is that some sort of Matrix-esque "knowing"?



a

al wrote:

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.net...

Nonsense. Towns can be even built up the side Ben Nevis, as they are
in the Alps.

Ben Nevis isn't in the Alps.

It is still a "small" mountain. Towns in the Alps are built far high in
more dramatic topology.



Ahhh ... but can we spot that there was an economic incentive for people to
settle there? They really didn't do it just because they thought it would
be a well 'ard place to live that would impress the likes of you!!



You will probably have noitced that in the alps, there are things called
'alpine meadows' which make excellent grazing for goats, sheep and cows,
and produce some of the best milk and cheese in that part of the world.

its also conveniently near major population centers like Munich, and
most of swirtzerland, and has a huge tourist industry.

Contrast with teh scottish highlands, which is bloody miles from
anywhere, and apart from game and forestry, has no useable resources at
all...being teh scaped clkean by galaciation remnants ogf a mountain
range, with no soil, not mucgh sun, and bloody awful winters. And
midges. Never forget the midges.





a

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
It does have water however. AND its bang on a big trans-america route.

Try Vegas for an even more crazy place....BUT again, it had some water,
and it was bang in the middle of a mining area and on a transport route...

whereas nearby there are many ghost towns that cessed to exist becase
the mines ran out. No mileage in sticking there when the basic source of
income has gone.

Vegas only survived because it was a 'play area' for the whole desert
area, and of course because all teh mormons from Salt Lake city needed
somewhere to go and have a bit of Sin now and again.


OK, trying not too sound too geeky, but I did play Civilisation a lot a long
time ago!! When you got LOADSA money, you could build big extravagant
things in the middle of nowhere for the hell of it. If you create a
resource and a reason to come, it could work. Organised crime created a
gambling haven away from the city cops. It ran away with itself and
snowballed into what Vegas is today. This however does not equate to
sticking 500 semi's on the side of Ben Nevis with a McD's in the middle!




a

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


I wuite LIKE Birmingham actually.

Its places like Hackney and Tottenham that scare the pants off me.


In fairness to the place, it looks a hell of a lot better in the last 5-10
years. I just can't get over the accent though! Sorry .... *ducks once
more* .....





a

"IMM" wrote in message
...
Our snotty uni man said large parts of the UK cannot be built on
for physical,reasons.


and

Slagging people off for being different makes you sad ...

I rest my case. m'lud :-)

Is this case heavy?


Is it just me or is it getting late ....!?



a

"al" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

So true. I know many well priced restaurants in London, but you have to
know
where they are.

Yikes ... I'm agreeing with IMM now ... ;P

You have to. It is good for you.

Paris is a much nicer people friendly city than London. Berlin, SF all
have
something London just lacks.

PARIS!?!?!!! You've got to be joking!
Pretty yes - friendly no!

I spent the best part of 5 years living between Paris and London. Paris
beats London by a mile. Food is cheap and "very" good.

Berlin has incredible architecture. SF is a great great place - almost
seems to
layed back to be called a city. But I couldn't live in the USA (SF is
about
the best choice though!).


I love Ken. He is fab! He is the only one attempting to make London a
kind
of people friendly place. His aim is to make the quality of life of the
people much better. the problem with London is that those who made the
most
money from it lived in villages in Surrey and couldn't give a hoot about
the
place. Ken want those who prosper most from London to be Londoners
(those
that live there).

He does have some good ideas and at least stands up for what he believes
in.
I respect him for that. I really respect him for his stance over that
un-elected imbecile visiting the Queen a while ago! His war on drivers
angers me.

I like his war on drivers. London is choking under cars. Something has to
be done.

If public transport was a quarter of the price, reliable and
fast (Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Luxembourg and many others manage to
some extent!) I'd be more on his side.

Paris is subsidised. London get little. Thatcher neglected the system so
much it will take 10 years to get it back to the way it was and another 10
to try and keep up. A lose, lose situation.

If you want your small town car driving, go to a small town.

I enjoy driving too much to give it up. I don't drive out of laziness. I
drive for fun when I can.

Then get out of a big city! and stop whinging.

London has some awful dilapidated property. Whole areas of it. It
amazes
me
when the London based press have a go at Liverpool. They really must
have
selective amnesia when looking around London. Or are these the Surrey
villages who only see the City rail stations and their own village?

All cities have their badly designed ****-holes. London has many. But
again, the smart buyer can avoid and can live in perfectly acceptable
quality without being made of money.




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IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Out here, I can get a really good meal for a fiver. INFINITELY better
food than I have EVER had in london for less than about 40 quid.


£40 a head for nosh? get back to London mate.



Learn to read. Or better still learn grammar. I said:

"INFINITELY better food than I have EVER had in london for less than
about 40 quid."

Not:
"INFINITELY better food than I have EVER had in london, for less than
about 40 quid."


Now I know YOU can't tell the difference, because grammar wasn't in the
Bumper Book of How Things Work, but that is your problem, not mine.





In the country all the things I like are on my doorstep.


Cow **** on your doorstep?



Not so as you would notice. Surprisingly there are huge acres of
countryssde completely devoid of bovines.



Can you lie in bed on the weekends and not hear a single car?


I can lie in bed in my London pad and not hear cars. It is in a court yard
type of place with well sealed windows. Not a sound!


And when you open the windows? To let the birdsong in?





Can you walk out the back door and pick ALL the fresh herbs you need?


I have herbs shops nearby.



That costs money and they are not fresh.



Can you spend a while day without seeing a single other human being? God
what a relief THAT is !


I can sit in my London pad and not see soul too.


With your eyes open, sunshine.




Leave you cars permanently unlocked and even your house?


In London I don't need a car to leave unlocked.



I'll grant you that one.



...and still get to a museum, rock concert, prom concert or art gallery
in under 1 1/2 hours IF YOU REALLY want to.


I can get to them in a matter of minutes.


And actually have time to get to know your neighbours? - or not, if you
prefer.


Same here.


nope. Its not.





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"al" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

I wuite LIKE Birmingham actually.

Its places like Hackney and Tottenham that scare the pants off me.

In fairness to the place, it looks a hell of a lot better in the last 5-10
years. I just can't get over the accent though! Sorry .... *ducks once
more* .....

When you amongst them, you don't hear it.


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al wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

People live where there are resources to live on, or off. If those
resources come at too high a price in human time to exploit, then those
areas die as far as human populations goes. Which is why sod all people
live in greenland, or the Sahara, for a small example.



And also, sadly as it may or may not be, is why "the North" isn't so
profitable a place to live now. Their time of valuable resource has passed.
As mankind evolves and seeks new resources it may change back to being the
most profitable part of the UK. But it still has ****e whether mind you



That is the thing that puts me off mostly.
And the gloomy winters.

BUT with property prices low, it is attractive to business and individual alike.

SOME peple like it up there.

I am more latin by temperament. Give me a hot dry place any day.




a

IMM wrote:


Glasgow is not a bad town really. Apart from being wet cold dark and
gloomy in winter.


And drunken violent people. Ever see the rubber men of Sochihall St?




But at least they are not as boring as you are.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Out here, I can get a really good meal for a fiver. INFINITELY better
food than I have EVER had in london for less than about 40 quid.

£40 a head for nosh? get back to London mate.

In the country all the things I like are on my doorstep.

Cow **** on your doorstep?

Not so as you would notice. Surprisingly there are huge acres of
countryssde completely devoid of bovines.

You would think they would build some houses on it wouldn't you.

Can you lie in bed on the weekends and not hear a single car?

I can lie in bed in my London pad and not hear cars. It is in a court
yard
type of place with well sealed windows. Not a sound!

And when you open the windows? To let the birdsong in?

I hear the water of the fountain.

Can you walk out the back door and pick ALL the fresh herbs you need?

I have herbs shops nearby.

That costs money and they are not fresh.

They do me.

Can you spend a while day without seeing a single other human being? God
what a relief THAT is !


I can sit in my London pad and not see soul too.

With your eyes open, sunshine.

If I don't people in, they don't come in.

Leave you cars permanently unlocked and even your house?

In London I don't need a car to leave unlocked.

I'll grant you that one.

...and still get to a museum, rock concert, prom concert or art gallery
in under 1 1/2 hours IF YOU REALLY want to.

I can get to them in a matter of minutes.

And actually have time to get to know your neighbours? - or not, if you
prefer.

Same here.

nope. Its not.

Yes it is.


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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Out here, I can get a really good meal for a fiver. INFINITELY better
food than I have EVER had in london for less than about 40 quid.

A matter of opinion. I beg to differ for my tastes. We're obviously both
in the right respective places if we so much like the grub around us!

Try johamnesburg. Great climate, great food, cheap houses. Swinmming
pools and servants thrown in.

Only problem ius you need to live behind 20ft high razor wire topped
walls, and carry a bodyguard with you wherever you go.

Yes, damn shame. I once lived in Jakarta before it all went to the wall.
Same life there but without the razor wire & bodyguard. Now even those
won't keep you safe.

In the country all the things I like are on my doorstep.

Can you wander out of your front door bollock naked and **** on the
flowerbeds without getting arrested? Can you actually see the Milky Way?
Can you have freshly killed rabbits pheasants and deer delivered to you
straight of the back of a quad bike, and take the dog for a 4 mile walk
without ever going on a public road or needing a lead?

You **** on your flowerbeds!? Ewwww ...

I'm looking at the Milky Way after Googling it ... I could eat one too ;p

I have a big park behind our house with A LOT of wildlife. But no, I can't
go around killing them. Don't have a dog.


Can you lie in bed on the weekends and not hear a single car?

Yeah, most of the time - pretty quiet street I'm on.

Can you walk out the back door and pick ALL the fresh herbs you need?

Yes, when I can be arsed planting enough of them

Can you spend a while day without seeing a single other human being? God
what a relief THAT is !

Ummm ...

Leave you cars permanently unlocked and even your house?

Have you seen A Clockwork Orange. Just because it's probably going to be ok
doesn't mean you should invite the risk! And yes, I've forgotten to lock my
car probably about 5 times in the last year and thankfully still found it
there the next morning. We really don't get handle-pullers around these
parts ...

...and still get to a museum, rock concert, prom concert or art gallery
in under 1 1/2 hours IF YOU REALLY want to.

Well, they're not everyday things, so I'll let you have that one. 45 mins
or 1.5 hours ain't much of a deal!

And actually have time to get to know your neighbours? - or not, if you
prefer.

I know my neighbours very well and get on with them very well. I also have
good privacy in my garden so they're not on top of me all the time.


You live in the suburbs, not London then.


Yes, but on the tube counts as London, if not central. I'm just saying you
don't have to live in the middle of nowhere to find a good place to settle.


a

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
al wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

People live where there are resources to live on, or off. If those
resources come at too high a price in human time to exploit, then those
areas die as far as human populations goes. Which is why sod all people
live in greenland, or the Sahara, for a small example.



And also, sadly as it may or may not be, is why "the North" isn't so
profitable a place to live now. Their time of valuable resource has
passed.
As mankind evolves and seeks new resources it may change back to being
the
most profitable part of the UK. But it still has ****e whether mind you




That is the thing that puts me off mostly.
And the gloomy winters.

BUT with property prices low, it is attractive to business and individual
alike.

SOME peple like it up there.

I am more latin by temperament. Give me a hot dry place any day.

The worst weather in England I found in East Anglia. Cold and wet and those
winds coming in from Siberia.


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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:


Glasgow is not a bad town really. Apart from being wet cold dark and
gloomy in winter.


And drunken violent people. Ever see the rubber men of Sochihall St?

But at least they are not as boring as you are.

LOL. You are fun.


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IMM wrote:

"al" wrote in message
...


De-restrict planning and redistribute land and the area will prosper.



Rubbish!!


Why not?


Salt Lake City is the most ridiculous
place to put a city. The lake is a
40 mile wide ditch. Some religious freak
said this is where we build because
he was tired of travelling and up came SLC.
The city is the centre and all
revolves around it.

The main rule about all rules is there are always exceptions. I don't

know

enough about SLC to know if there were any other good reasons to settle
there so I can't comment on it specifically. It does not however follow
that because of that if you provide the houses the people will come!


That is what happened in Milton Keynes. They built the house gave financial
incentives to companies and it took off like a rocket. The secret was that
they designed and built the place properly. It is still expanding like
mad.


Chickens and eggs. There was already a lot of reasonable infrastructure
around MK. throwing money at it made it advantagoeus to set up industry
there., The people will go where the jobs are, and where the cost of
living is less than the salary. That's all.


Now you ma decide that we shpuld akll pay a penny extra tax to buiold
New Caledinai in a scottsh bog halfway aup a muntain, put in an airport
(if yy can find a flat bit) dam up a few streams for water, build a
nuclear power station, a motorway or there, and subsideise the **** out
of the place, and build a scottish newtown. BUT you srer distorting
underlying factors that make towns happen where they happen - because
they arecoist effective. You cannot fight economics and remain competitive.

You should move to Bombay, where the cost of living is MUCH less and
there are plenty of houses.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

Can you??? Please try!!! You cannot build in the country. We are
prevented from doing so. Only in certain circumstance can you build,
usually
replacing an existing building. Try to buy open land and build a big
house.
You will be shocked.


Well, my point was that I physically could be wouldn't want to as I couldn't
survive there even if it were legal as I couldn't make a living and would
hate the isolation and not being able to do the things I like doing.



a

"IMM" wrote in message
...

That is what happened in Milton Keynes. They built the house gave
financial
incentives to companies and it took off like a rocket. The secret was
that
they designed and built the place properly. It is still expanding like
mad.


MK is a commuter town for London, that's why it's successful. It's centre
can support the local community with low level jobs and entertainment, but
the people that live there I imagine mostly work in the city.



a

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Contrast with teh scottish highlands, which is bloody miles from
anywhere, and apart from game and forestry, has no useable resources at
all...being teh scaped clkean by galaciation remnants ogf a mountain
range, with no soil, not mucgh sun, and bloody awful winters. And
midges. Never forget the midges.

Midges are impossible to forget.
It amazes me how few people in midge-infested areas, have window screens.
With summers like the last one, the choice was between being roasted, or
bitten. Well, not at my house - I made midge-proof screens for my windows.

Sheila

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:44:47 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:13:48 +0000, Witchy
wrote:

There is - right click a message, select 'filters' then 'open filters
window'. Then you just have to click and delete the ones you don't
want any more.

Well bugger me sideways. I never realised there was a right-click menu
on the message pane.

Thank you - I now know I can retrieve IMM from the sin-bin if I feel
like it. Mind you, I might not be feeling like it for a while

I've just got to look at tonight's slew of messages to decide not to!

--
cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs

IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


IMM wrote:


Salt Lake City is the most ridiculous place to put a city. The lake is
a 40 mile wide ditch. Some religious freak said this is where we build
because he was tired of travelling and up came SLC. The city is the

centre and

all evolves around it.


It does have water


The city is not on the ditch!


however. AND its bang on a big trans-america route.

The communications came because of the town, now city.

No, actually they did not. Read your history.


I spent 6 months there. The locals say it is a silly place to put a city,
although the Rockies rise at the side of it and there are some ski resorts
there now.



I know, I went there too, but living with a bunch of weird christians is
not my idea of fun.
Its an established fact that americans don't know anything about their
country anyway, and even less about history and other peoples countries.

I suppose that is why you felt at home there...




---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 03/01/2004

al wrote:

"IMM" wrote in message
...

LOL ... I've just read this posting thinking it was IMM and being quite
impressed for him presenting some actual facts for once!

I am a highly factual person. I also "know".



Damn .... you used quotes ... is that some sort of Matrix-esque "knowing"?




I think it means he is a Gnostic...



a

IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


The home counties are FULL of
sharp elbowed suits, nattering on about their cars, their careers, and
how much money they are making. Personally I find such people utter bores.


The kettle and pot and black. You were going on about making a load of
lolly.



? not recently. ?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Alternate extremes, but mostly just one extreme.

Me too ... but the opposite way around

If you REALLY want to see what life is all about, take a trip to the
African bush. Its amazing what you DON'T need, and even more amazing hen
you discover what is left of yourself when totally divorced from 'modern
society'

Mind blowing.

Haven't been there, but I know I would love that sort of thing - for a
holiday. Don't think I'd want to live it all the time. But then, people's
values change with age - perhaps I'd want to retire there!

I have remarked, that people are here, by and large, because they WANT
to be here, or are born here. No one comes to suffolk to make their
fortunes, or advance their careers. Either they have made a fortune, or
stopped trying, or indeed never started.

Therefore people here are not competing with you. They are just 'here'
and so are you.

Sounds fine to me, just not my cup of tea at this moment in my life.


This gives a unique flavour to the place. The home counties are FULL of
sharp elbowed suits, nattering on about their cars, their careers, and
how much money they are making. Personally I find such people utter bores.


There sure are a lot of them and they are prats. But there are so many
people here that it is also easy to find good decent people who are a
valuable addition to ones life as friends and even colleagues. It's not all
pin-stripe ******* here you know!



a

al wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

It does have water however. AND its bang on a big trans-america route.

Try Vegas for an even more crazy place....BUT again, it had some water,
and it was bang in the middle of a mining area and on a transport route...

whereas nearby there are many ghost towns that cessed to exist becase
the mines ran out. No mileage in sticking there when the basic source of
income has gone.

Vegas only survived because it was a 'play area' for the whole desert
area, and of course because all teh mormons from Salt Lake city needed
somewhere to go and have a bit of Sin now and again.



OK, trying not too sound too geeky, but I did play Civilisation a lot a long
time ago!! When you got LOADSA money, you could build big extravagant
things in the middle of nowhere for the hell of it. If you create a
resource and a reason to come, it could work. Organised crime created a
gambling haven away from the city cops. It ran away with itself and
snowballed into what Vegas is today. This however does not equate to
sticking 500 semi's on the side of Ben Nevis with a McD's in the middle!



I totally agree.

Vegas is in the center of what used to be a mining area. Its brash miner
playtime town to the nth degree. It had water, and was on the
communication route.

It stayed successful because Nevada had very relaxed gambling laws, and
in fact any laws....

"Hey there pard, what're you doin - you just shot a man in the street"
"Officer, we was jest havin' fun"
"Oh,. HAVING FUN! Well that's all right, you jest call the undertakers
and get that cleaned up, but as long as it was only fun, that's what
Vegas is orl about!"

IMM wrote:


When you amongst them, you don't hear it.


Ah. Are you referring to the lies promulagted by Nu Laber there, then?

"IMM" wrote in message
...

Get out your car and stop polluting. use public transport. I can't stand
polluting whingers like you who think they have to go everywhere in their
cars. Ken is right. Just about every major city in the world is thinking
of copying Ken.


No, I don't think I have to go everywhere by car. I take the tube always
for work or getting to the city for shopping, etc. However I do drive to
the local shops (ie. Safeways, DIY sheds, etc.) and out to lots of different
places at the weekends to find new things to do. And as I've said before,
driving is a passion with me, not a lazy way of getting around. I drive
very safely, but not in such a manner as some more timid people would be
happy with when I find some nice twisty roads.

You'll get me out of a car about as soon as a sky-diver out of a parachute.
It's nothing to do with pollution. I don't sit in traffic jams every day to
go 2 miles down the road and sit spewing out fumes for the fun of it.

BTW ... if you really want to help world pollution, perhaps you could
campaign about just about the only thing that will make a major difference
to the world right now - changing US policy on the environment and getting
rid of pandering puppet PM's like Blair who live up US president's arses.



a

al wrote:


Yes, but on the tube counts as London, if not central. I'm just saying you
don't have to live in the middle of nowhere to find a good place to settle.



I do. I LIKE the middle of nowhere. I KNOWE that I can shut this down,
and **** myself laughing at IMM's stupidity, knowing that he is miles
away in a world of his own, and with luck, will never ever cross my path.

If I lived in london, I might one day actually have to have the

terrifying experience of meeting him in person, or someone like him.




a

IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Out here, I can get a really good meal for a fiver. INFINITELY better
food than I have EVER had in london for less than about 40 quid.

£40 a head for nosh? get back to London mate.


In the country all the things I like are on my doorstep.


Cow **** on your doorstep?


Not so as you would notice. Surprisingly there are huge acres of
countryssde completely devoid of bovines.


You would think they would build some houses on it wouldn't you.


Foirst off, cows are not noted for their building skills, and secondly,
why waste good land turning it into suburbia?




Can you lie in bed on the weekends and not hear a single car?


I can lie in bed in my London pad and not hear cars. It is in a court

yard

type of place with well sealed windows. Not a sound!


And when you open the windows? To let the birdsong in?


I hear the water of the fountain.



Well ist about time you attended to it then, as it must be costing you a
fortune as well as being completely ecoloficaly unsound. Wasting all
that water.



Can you walk out the back door and pick ALL the fresh herbs you need?


I have herbs shops nearby.


That costs money and they are not fresh.


They do me.



Yep. They probably do at that. No one in london can taste anything over
the taste of diesel oil.



Can you spend a while day without seeing a single other human being? God
what a relief THAT is !


I can sit in my London pad and not see soul too.


With your eyes open, sunshine.


If I don't people in, they don't come in.



Er, right. I think we will let that one pass....



Leave you cars permanently unlocked and even your house?


In London I don't need a car to leave unlocked.


I'll grant you that one.


...and still get to a museum, rock concert, prom concert or art gallery
in under 1 1/2 hours IF YOU REALLY want to.


I can get to them in a matter of minutes.


And actually have time to get to know your neighbours? - or not, if you
prefer.


Same here.


nope. Its not.


Yes it is.


*Shrug*. The depths of your self deception are boundless.




---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 03/01/2004

"IMM" wrote in message
...

PARIS!?!?!!! You've got to be joking!
Pretty yes - friendly no!

I spent the best part of 5 years living between Paris and London. Paris
beats London by a mile. Food is cheap and "very" good.


OK, food is good too. But it is NOT foreigner freindly. A very arrogant
city.

I like his war on drivers. London is choking under cars. Something has
to
be done.

Yes, something does. But look at the demographic of the people driving on
the roads and clogging them up. SCHOOL RUNS ... grrrr ... there, I said it.
What the hell happened to walking or school buses! Now I'm going to stop
before I get really angry!

Oh .. and city tosspots who don't even notice the congestion charge as they
cruise by in their 3.0 exec saloon ...

Paris is subsidised. London get little. Thatcher neglected the system so
much it will take 10 years to get it back to the way it was and another 10
to try and keep up. A lose, lose situation.

I really have no answers for what to do in London or Britain in general with
trains and tubes. The damage of the last 25 years is beyond belief. But
*something* needs to be done. It's embarrasing!



a