"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx


Sanj

Heard good things about the Maplin ones - have to install yourself though.
hth
Neil

I made the mistake of buying one!!!
After a catalogue of problems and failures I finally removed it; still
trying to get the money back!

"Neil" wrote in message
...
"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a
budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx


Sanj

Heard good things about the Maplin ones - have to install yourself though.
hth
Neil

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx

You don't say if you are doing it yourself or spending that to have it
installed. If it is the latter it is quite a tight budget, if it is the
former that is quite a generous amount. You will always get differing
opinions and experiences but (professionally) I'd advise hard wired systems
(not radio linked sensors) with easy setting (for all the family not just
techno bods) of zones or where you can store different configurations i.e.
it is easy to set one way if you leave the house and another way if you go
to bed at night. Wire it so you can use it overnight isolating downstairs
and perhaps any vulnerable spare upstairs rooms if they have a flat roof
etc. It is also a good idea to buy a system with more than enough zones in
case you add the garage, shed another outbuilding (many get break-ins
overnight). You may want or be able to add an autodialler so it can ring
you on a mobile if it goes off, or you can get alarms monitored if it is
professionally installed. Some insurance companies give discounts for
alarms but look at the terms carefully - the saving is often only 20-30 quid
and you may be uninsured if you forget to set it or aren't on a maintainance
contract.

Don't have too many PIR sensors, make sure the sensors aren't facing
directly at heat/movement sources such as cookers and sunny windows, make
sure the sensors aren't too sensitive(you can usually adjust). When you
site sensors it is a good idea to spray and wipe with insect spray and put a
piece of cotton wool concealed just behind previously soaked in insect
spray.

Most of the work for an alarm is done just by a burglar seeing the box on
the front of the house so the ones with flashing LEDs show it is real. When
you get it, it is important it has credability and you respect your
neighbours. Make sure it doesn't keep going off and you properly shut
internal doors, don't have curtains flapping etc. otherwise people don't
take any notice. Many areas have by-laws saying alarms should only activate
for around 5-20 minutes max. Make sure neighbours know where to get a
keyholder if you are away.

Test your alarm around once a month, the bell box batteries tend to last
only 2-3 years. Many people don't realise their (bell box and panel)
batteries have failed as they test on the mains and if switched off the
alarm dies in seconds.

I am planning to install myself but have not ruled the professional option
dependant on price. I live in the west midlands region and have a big 3 bed
semi, I would like to cover all 3 bedrooms, upstairs and downstairs
landing/hallway, and 3 rooms downstairs. An auto dialler would be desirable
but not essential.

"Brownie" wrote in message
...

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a
budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx

You don't say if you are doing it yourself or spending that to have it
installed. If it is the latter it is quite a tight budget, if it is the
former that is quite a generous amount. You will always get differing
opinions and experiences but (professionally) I'd advise hard wired
systems
(not radio linked sensors) with easy setting (for all the family not just
techno bods) of zones or where you can store different configurations i.e.
it is easy to set one way if you leave the house and another way if you go
to bed at night. Wire it so you can use it overnight isolating downstairs
and perhaps any vulnerable spare upstairs rooms if they have a flat roof
etc. It is also a good idea to buy a system with more than enough zones
in
case you add the garage, shed another outbuilding (many get break-ins
overnight). You may want or be able to add an autodialler so it can ring
you on a mobile if it goes off, or you can get alarms monitored if it is
professionally installed. Some insurance companies give discounts for
alarms but look at the terms carefully - the saving is often only 20-30
quid
and you may be uninsured if you forget to set it or aren't on a
maintainance
contract.

Don't have too many PIR sensors, make sure the sensors aren't facing
directly at heat/movement sources such as cookers and sunny windows, make
sure the sensors aren't too sensitive(you can usually adjust). When you
site sensors it is a good idea to spray and wipe with insect spray and put
a
piece of cotton wool concealed just behind previously soaked in insect
spray.

Most of the work for an alarm is done just by a burglar seeing the box on
the front of the house so the ones with flashing LEDs show it is real.
When
you get it, it is important it has credability and you respect your
neighbours. Make sure it doesn't keep going off and you properly shut
internal doors, don't have curtains flapping etc. otherwise people don't
take any notice. Many areas have by-laws saying alarms should only
activate
for around 5-20 minutes max. Make sure neighbours know where to get a
keyholder if you are away.

Test your alarm around once a month, the bell box batteries tend to last
only 2-3 years. Many people don't realise their (bell box and panel)
batteries have failed as they test on the mains and if switched off the
alarm dies in seconds.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:53:00 +0100, "Sanj" wrote:

I am planning to install myself but have not ruled the professional option
dependant on price. I live in the west midlands region and have a big 3 bed
semi, I would like to cover all 3 bedrooms, upstairs and downstairs
landing/hallway, and 3 rooms downstairs. An auto dialler would be desirable
but not essential.

I'm curious - why bother covering the bedrooms? I wouldn't have
thought it was the most likely point of entry, unless you've got some
sort of accessibility which a burglar would use (low roof, substantial
drain pipe, overhanging tree, etc).

I'd have focussed on the main thoroughfares within the property, and
for sure the doors and windows.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

Remote keypads didn't respond when clearing the alarm, worked OK setting it,
but not clearing.
First PIR failed within two days, second one failed a week later.
A number of minor things like setting zone names, and the names ONLY being
used for event recall, not normal operation.
Stupid error messages like "fault" (and nothing else) which you then have to
call the premium rate support line to find out what it means.
Tech support only avalable 9-5 on a premium rate number, totaly useless to
people like me who's employers block premium rate numbers; had to take half
a days leave to find-out what "fault" meant!
Every time I set the alarm and opened the designated entry/exit door it was
logged as a zone fault in the event history; how the **** am I suposed to
get out of the building, through a window!


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Martin wrote:

I made the mistake of buying one!!!
After a catalogue of problems and failures I finally removed it; still
trying to get the money back!

What exactly went wrong? There's so little to break on a burglar
alarm, it's difficult to imagine a whole catalogue of problems.

--
Grunff

If Maplin don't come back with a sensible refund offer, mine will be
advertised on ebay soon, with a full description of why I'm selling it!
So if you want a bargain....

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
I am planning to install myself but have not ruled the professional option
dependant on price. I live in the west midlands region and have a big 3
bed
semi, I would like to cover all 3 bedrooms, upstairs and downstairs
landing/hallway, and 3 rooms downstairs. An auto dialler would be
desirable
but not essential.

"Brownie" wrote in message
...

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a
budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx

You don't say if you are doing it yourself or spending that to have it
installed. If it is the latter it is quite a tight budget, if it is the
former that is quite a generous amount. You will always get differing
opinions and experiences but (professionally) I'd advise hard wired
systems
(not radio linked sensors) with easy setting (for all the family not
just
techno bods) of zones or where you can store different configurations
i.e.
it is easy to set one way if you leave the house and another way if you
go
to bed at night. Wire it so you can use it overnight isolating
downstairs
and perhaps any vulnerable spare upstairs rooms if they have a flat roof
etc. It is also a good idea to buy a system with more than enough zones
in
case you add the garage, shed another outbuilding (many get break-ins
overnight). You may want or be able to add an autodialler so it can
ring
you on a mobile if it goes off, or you can get alarms monitored if it is
professionally installed. Some insurance companies give discounts for
alarms but look at the terms carefully - the saving is often only 20-30
quid
and you may be uninsured if you forget to set it or aren't on a
maintainance
contract.

Don't have too many PIR sensors, make sure the sensors aren't facing
directly at heat/movement sources such as cookers and sunny windows,
make
sure the sensors aren't too sensitive(you can usually adjust). When you
site sensors it is a good idea to spray and wipe with insect spray and
put
a
piece of cotton wool concealed just behind previously soaked in insect
spray.

Most of the work for an alarm is done just by a burglar seeing the box
on
the front of the house so the ones with flashing LEDs show it is real.
When
you get it, it is important it has credability and you respect your
neighbours. Make sure it doesn't keep going off and you properly shut
internal doors, don't have curtains flapping etc. otherwise people don't
take any notice. Many areas have by-laws saying alarms should only
activate
for around 5-20 minutes max. Make sure neighbours know where to get a
keyholder if you are away.

Test your alarm around once a month, the bell box batteries tend to last
only 2-3 years. Many people don't realise their (bell box and panel)
batteries have failed as they test on the mains and if switched off the
alarm dies in seconds.

Dave Plowman wrote:

I've always found Maplin excellent for customer service - not that I've
ever had to return faulty goods. Are you saying they won't replace it?

Same here - they're one of the least problematic suppliers to
deal with.

--
Grunff

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:22:03 UTC, Dave Plowman
wrote:

*A fool and his money are soon partying *

I hate to say, it, but the Daily Mail (!) printed that one yesterday!

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70, PC/AT..

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:53:00 +0100, "Sanj" wrote:

I am planning to install myself but have not ruled the professional
option
dependant on price. I live in the west midlands region and have a big 3
bed
semi, I would like to cover all 3 bedrooms, upstairs and downstairs
landing/hallway, and 3 rooms downstairs. An auto dialler would be
desirable
but not essential.

I'm curious - why bother covering the bedrooms? I wouldn't have
thought it was the most likely point of entry, unless you've got some
sort of accessibility which a burglar would use (low roof, substantial
drain pipe, overhanging tree, etc).

It isn't necessary to alarm all the bedrooms unless they are vulnerable or
you have a particular risk to protect. Some burglars have burgled each
bedroom individually to avoid typically one sensor on a landing but it is
usually a targeted premises with known valuables. In Sanj's example it
sounds like overkill and a lot of hassle hiding all those wires under
floorboards etc. Most three bed semi's would only have around 4 sensors -
as I said, the fact that you are alarmed significantly reduces the risk with
most (not all) burglars but doesn't prove such a deterrant to overnight
burglars as lots of people don't set 'em.

if your in the west midlands and want an easy to use alarm system, i would
recommend the intellisence range, i have used these consistantly over many
years with no problems, my supplier here in Redditch has a 8zone kit with 4
pirs, 2 door contacts, remote keypad, sounder, dummy box, cable, battery,
and fused spur for around £120. it aint nothing fancy but can be programmed
for full set, part set and at home.

loz
"Sanj" wrote in message
...
I am planning to install myself but have not ruled the professional option
dependant on price. I live in the west midlands region and have a big 3
bed
semi, I would like to cover all 3 bedrooms, upstairs and downstairs
landing/hallway, and 3 rooms downstairs. An auto dialler would be
desirable
but not essential.

"Brownie" wrote in message
...

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a
budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx

You don't say if you are doing it yourself or spending that to have it
installed. If it is the latter it is quite a tight budget, if it is the
former that is quite a generous amount. You will always get differing
opinions and experiences but (professionally) I'd advise hard wired
systems
(not radio linked sensors) with easy setting (for all the family not
just
techno bods) of zones or where you can store different configurations
i.e.
it is easy to set one way if you leave the house and another way if you
go
to bed at night. Wire it so you can use it overnight isolating
downstairs
and perhaps any vulnerable spare upstairs rooms if they have a flat roof
etc. It is also a good idea to buy a system with more than enough zones
in
case you add the garage, shed another outbuilding (many get break-ins
overnight). You may want or be able to add an autodialler so it can
ring
you on a mobile if it goes off, or you can get alarms monitored if it is
professionally installed. Some insurance companies give discounts for
alarms but look at the terms carefully - the saving is often only 20-30
quid
and you may be uninsured if you forget to set it or aren't on a
maintainance
contract.

Don't have too many PIR sensors, make sure the sensors aren't facing
directly at heat/movement sources such as cookers and sunny windows,
make
sure the sensors aren't too sensitive(you can usually adjust). When you
site sensors it is a good idea to spray and wipe with insect spray and
put
a
piece of cotton wool concealed just behind previously soaked in insect
spray.

Most of the work for an alarm is done just by a burglar seeing the box
on
the front of the house so the ones with flashing LEDs show it is real.
When
you get it, it is important it has credability and you respect your
neighbours. Make sure it doesn't keep going off and you properly shut
internal doors, don't have curtains flapping etc. otherwise people don't
take any notice. Many areas have by-laws saying alarms should only
activate
for around 5-20 minutes max. Make sure neighbours know where to get a
keyholder if you are away.

Test your alarm around once a month, the bell box batteries tend to last
only 2-3 years. Many people don't realise their (bell box and panel)
batteries have failed as they test on the mains and if switched off the
alarm dies in seconds.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:30:55 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:

But I don't want it replaced, I want a refund of what I paid them; the
original didn't work, so why should a replacement be any different?.
They charge 10% for restocking plus 20% for anything not in the original box
plus whatever they feel like for anything not in new condition; You try
getting a cable into a PIR without using one of the cable knock-outs!

You cannot be serious. I hate to say it but it sure sounds as though
Maplins are dealing with this correctly!

If I read the above correctly then you've thrown away the original
packaging, the goods are no longer in new condition, and you've
knocked holes into a PIR to fit cables? Why on earth should you expect
them to refund you in full under these circumstances?

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

That will be the C&K 800L panel. Very good system for a house. Although it doesn't have the outputs, you can
still connect it to a autodialer.

www.alertelectrical.com


--

SantaUK
Mail me at:
arjf (ng) zzvyyne (qbg) pb (qbg) hx === ROT13
Use http://andrewu.co.uk/tools/rot13/ to convert to readable format





"LOZ34" wrote in message ...
if your in the west midlands and want an easy to use alarm system, i would
recommend the intellisence range, i have used these consistantly over many
years with no problems, my supplier here in Redditch has a 8zone kit with 4
pirs, 2 door contacts, remote keypad, sounder, dummy box, cable, battery,
and fused spur for around £120. it aint nothing fancy but can be programmed
for full set, part set and at home.

loz
"Sanj" wrote in message
...
I am planning to install myself but have not ruled the professional option
dependant on price. I live in the west midlands region and have a big 3
bed
semi, I would like to cover all 3 bedrooms, upstairs and downstairs
landing/hallway, and 3 rooms downstairs. An auto dialler would be
desirable
but not essential.

"Brownie" wrote in message
...

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a
budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx

You don't say if you are doing it yourself or spending that to have it
installed. If it is the latter it is quite a tight budget, if it is the
former that is quite a generous amount. You will always get differing
opinions and experiences but (professionally) I'd advise hard wired
systems
(not radio linked sensors) with easy setting (for all the family not
just
techno bods) of zones or where you can store different configurations
i.e.
it is easy to set one way if you leave the house and another way if you
go
to bed at night. Wire it so you can use it overnight isolating
downstairs
and perhaps any vulnerable spare upstairs rooms if they have a flat roof
etc. It is also a good idea to buy a system with more than enough zones
in
case you add the garage, shed another outbuilding (many get break-ins
overnight). You may want or be able to add an autodialler so it can
ring
you on a mobile if it goes off, or you can get alarms monitored if it is
professionally installed. Some insurance companies give discounts for
alarms but look at the terms carefully - the saving is often only 20-30
quid
and you may be uninsured if you forget to set it or aren't on a
maintainance
contract.

Don't have too many PIR sensors, make sure the sensors aren't facing
directly at heat/movement sources such as cookers and sunny windows,
make
sure the sensors aren't too sensitive(you can usually adjust). When you
site sensors it is a good idea to spray and wipe with insect spray and
put
a
piece of cotton wool concealed just behind previously soaked in insect
spray.

Most of the work for an alarm is done just by a burglar seeing the box
on
the front of the house so the ones with flashing LEDs show it is real.
When
you get it, it is important it has credability and you respect your
neighbours. Make sure it doesn't keep going off and you properly shut
internal doors, don't have curtains flapping etc. otherwise people don't
take any notice. Many areas have by-laws saying alarms should only
activate
for around 5-20 minutes max. Make sure neighbours know where to get a
keyholder if you are away.

Test your alarm around once a month, the bell box batteries tend to last
only 2-3 years. Many people don't realise their (bell box and panel)
batteries have failed as they test on the mains and if switched off the
alarm dies in seconds.

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

I hate to say, it, but the Daily Mail (!) printed that one yesterday!

They probably nicked it from the same source as me. But I was first. ;-)

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
Martin wrote:
But I don't want it replaced, I want a refund of what I paid them; the
original didn't work, so why should a replacement be any different?.

Because they don't sell things like this that don't work. And you cannot
expect them to give you a refund for something that has clearly been used,
but you *can* expect them to repair or replace it, and they would.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:25:10 UTC, Andrew McKay
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:30:55 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:
But I don't want it replaced, I want a refund of what I paid them; the
original didn't work, so why should a replacement be any different?.
They charge 10% for restocking plus 20% for anything not in the original box
plus whatever they feel like for anything not in new condition; You try
getting a cable into a PIR without using one of the cable knock-outs!

You cannot be serious. I hate to say it but it sure sounds as though
Maplins are dealing with this correctly!

If I read the above correctly then you've thrown away the original
packaging, the goods are no longer in new condition, and you've
knocked holes into a PIR to fit cables? Why on earth should you expect
them to refund you in full under these circumstances?

Because it didn't work. We're not talking DSR here, but SOGA.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70, PC/AT..

On 19 Jul 2003 19:10:40 GMT, (Bob Eager) wrote:

Because it didn't work. We're not talking DSR here, but SOGA.

I'm probably missing something really obvious here so please forgive
me if I am.

I have installed a couple of complete alarm systems where virtually
all components were sourced from Maplins. I would guess I may have
bought some mains cable from the local Wickes shed, and possibly some
other relatively minor stuff. But the lions share of active components
were from Maplins - excellent service offered.

Both included the whole works, from the well featured alarm panel,
remote key switches, PIR and smoke detectors, pressure detectors,
everything.

And every single component worked out of the box exactly as it said on
the box. I recall having one failure - the remote key switch mounted
just inside the front door had its front panel attached via a flimsy
ribbon cable etched onto a plastic substrate, and I managed to trap it
when screwing it together, and it broke. Poor design maybe, but
Maplins weren't at fault themselves.

So exactly what didn't work? The whole alarm system, one component, a
zone?

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

"Sanj" wrote in message m
I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a
budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx

From what I have read you are in the Midlands. For a DIY kit I would
recommend www.securitysupermarket.co.uk , they are Midlands based,
have a wide range of gear, an easy to fill in "survey" sheet to make
sure you buy the right kit and a 24 hour help line. £250.00 will buy
you a lot of gear.

Regards

Scott

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
On 19 Jul 2003 19:10:40 GMT, (Bob Eager) wrote:

Because it didn't work. We're not talking DSR here, but SOGA.

I'm probably missing something really obvious here so please forgive
me if I am.

I have installed a couple of complete alarm systems where virtually
all components were sourced from Maplins. I would guess I may have
bought some mains cable from the local Wickes shed, and possibly some
other relatively minor stuff. But the lions share of active components
were from Maplins - excellent service offered.

Both included the whole works, from the well featured alarm panel,
remote key switches, PIR and smoke detectors, pressure detectors,
everything.

And every single component worked out of the box exactly as it said on
the box. I recall having one failure - the remote key switch mounted
just inside the front door had its front panel attached via a flimsy
ribbon cable etched onto a plastic substrate, and I managed to trap it
when screwing it together, and it broke. Poor design maybe, but
Maplins weren't at fault themselves.

So exactly what didn't work? The whole alarm system, one component, a
zone?


Main problems listed in a previous post.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:30:55 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:

But I don't want it replaced, I want a refund of what I paid them; the
original didn't work, so why should a replacement be any different?.
They charge 10% for restocking plus 20% for anything not in the original
box
plus whatever they feel like for anything not in new condition; You try
getting a cable into a PIR without using one of the cable knock-outs!

You cannot be serious. I hate to say it but it sure sounds as though
Maplins are dealing with this correctly!

If I read the above correctly then you've thrown away the original
packaging, the goods are no longer in new condition, and you've
knocked holes into a PIR to fit cables? Why on earth should you expect
them to refund you in full under these circumstances?

And by English law if something is found to be unfit for its intended
purpose, you are entitled to a FULL refund (from the supplier) plus any
incurred costs; basically whatever is required to get you back to the state
things were in before the purchase. It is up to the supplier to pass his
costs/losses on the his supplier/manufacturer.....

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:59:24 +0100, Andrew McKay wrote:

Some insurers do allow a self fitted and maintained system to be
allowed a premium discount. ( NU I think)

Interesting - I didn't know that.

But read the small print in the policy *very* closely as you'll
probably find you aren't covered if the house has no one inside it and
the alarm isn't set and house secure.

You are the only one "in", pop next door to borrow as screwdriver,
scroat nips in a swipes the video, your not covered...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article ,
Martin wrote:
And by English law if something is found to be unfit for its intended
purpose, you are entitled to a FULL refund (from the supplier) plus any
incurred costs; basically whatever is required to get you back to the
state things were in before the purchase. It is up to the supplier to
pass his costs/losses on the his supplier/manufacturer.....

Are you saying they've refused to replace a faulty PIR, for example? Cos
I've got the feeling we're not getting the whole story here...

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:15:25 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:

Main problems listed in a previous post.

Okay, found it. Had to search a bit though

Sounds to me as though you may have had a dodgy control unit, as all
clues lead back to that.

From memory the PIRs derive their power from the control unit, so just
maybe if the power supply back there is playing up it could cause PIRs
and so on to fail. Plus it is the common element for every component.

I don't recall that you changed the control unit so maybe that's worth
checking out?

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:22:03 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:

And by English law if something is found to be unfit for its intended
purpose, you are entitled to a FULL refund (from the supplier) plus any
incurred costs; basically whatever is required to get you back to the state
things were in before the purchase. It is up to the supplier to pass his
costs/losses on the his supplier/manufacturer.....

I won't pretend to be an expert with these matters. However my
experience suggests that if you want a full no questions asked refund
then materials need to be returned in A1 condition, with original
packaging, etc.

Now in your case you'd installed the system and the packaging was no
longer available, plus the PIR had been physically changed from its
shipped configuration (as you needed to do).

I think Maplins were probably entitled to try and help resolve the
problems rather than offer a full money back. I'm not saying for a
moment that you shouldn't have eventually got your money back, but you
do have to give them a reasonable chance to resolve the problems.

I suppose the issue is whether the "reasonable chance" was completed
or not. We'll never know

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:30:37 +0100, "Frisket"
wrote:

Sorry to disagree but whether it's been used or not doesn't matter if it's
faulty - he's entitled to his money back.

Not really. If he had rejected the goods within a very short time
(typically one or two weeks) he might have been. The onus would of
course be on the user to prove there was a pre-existing fault at the
time of sale in this case. This right of rejection has been in the
Sales of Goods act for many years.

Since 31 Mar the amendments to the Sales of Goods act have brought in
an extra right to repair or replacement in consumer cases for faulty
goods with a presumption that the fault was pre-existing if purchased
in the preceding 6 months. Under the new amendments there is no
right to a refund unless repair or replacement is impossible or
impractical and if a refund is made it can be abated to take into
account the time the owner has had use of the goods.

The new rights only apply if the purchaser is dealing as a consumer.
If the goods were purchased as a business to business transaction
they do not apply.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Andrew McKay wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:42:54 +0100, "Neil"
wrote:


Heard good things about the Maplin ones - have to install yourself though.


A few years ago I bought and installed a Maplin alarm, and was very
pleased with it. As I recall it had 6 zones and it worked like it said
on the box.

However self-installed alarms do nothing to reduce your home
insurance. You need to get a professionally installed (and
maintained?) alarm for that. Plus if the alarm keeps going off
accidentally the police could get a bit anxious - I think they can
start charging after a certain number of false call outs.



Actually, even those don't do a lot.

I talked to tehinsurance company, and they said that ubnless I was
prepared to set it every night before going to betd, fasten all ground
floor windows etc etc, they would offer o premium reductiobn.

I pointed out that in the unlikely event of anyone coming near the
house, the sound of the car and/or the crunching of gravel would
undoubtedly wake me up, since out here its as quiet as the grave from
11pm onwards. This however cut no ice as they say.

I think a distinction needs tobe made about burglar alarms. They hav as
far as I can tell several functions

(i) Reducing insurance premiums. Its like those stupid window locks you
can break with one hand. They are completely useless except to reduce
our premium. AS LONG AS YOU MAKE SUE YOU GO ROUNFD AND LOCK THEM ALL
BEFOTRE YOU CALL THE POLICE. This is very important. Never mind that
they jemmied open the window anyway, just as long as the locks were in
place...

(ii) Deterring burglars. Here its more a question of having somethibg
that looks like it moght caise someone to take the number of the car
parked in the drive if it went off. A big false bell unit on te outside
is enough to do this mostly.

(iii) slowing burglars down. This has been identified ss teh single most
effective way of reducing theft - make it hard and time consuming to get
at teh valuables. I.e. bolt down your compuyer, put expensive stuiff in
locked steel carese - anything that takes an exta minute to open will
add protection.

Burgalr alarms do nothing here.

(iv) Catching burglars. Here alarms are totally ineffective: They will
be gone before anyone takes note of yet another 3 a.m alarm vbekll, if
indeed anyone bothers. Likewise call outs to police etc are always far
too late to be of any value in anything. MUCH nbetter to have a security
camnm system, and online internet connection, and stream videos snaps to
a remorte server.

I'd say the presence of a cam - dummy or otherwise - is a far greater
deterrent than a conventional alarm system as well....






Also, have you noticed how neighbours tend to ignore the alarms when
they go off? It tends to be met with "oh s**t, there's that damned
alarm again", instead of "ooh! maybe there's a burglar - I'd better go
check!". I noticed that most neighbours don't even poke their head out
the door when an alarm goes off, so I guess Burglar Bill isn't so
phased by them.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

See previous post!

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Martin wrote:
And by English law if something is found to be unfit for its intended
purpose, you are entitled to a FULL refund (from the supplier) plus any
incurred costs; basically whatever is required to get you back to the
state things were in before the purchase. It is up to the supplier to
pass his costs/losses on the his supplier/manufacturer.....

Are you saying they've refused to replace a faulty PIR, for example? Cos
I've got the feeling we're not getting the whole story here...

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In message , Brownie
writes
I said in my original post the sight of an alarm will deter many burglars as
they will go to an easier house

Or make them think that there is something worth stealing in the house


(iv) Catching burglars. Here alarms are totally ineffective: They will
be gone before anyone takes note of yet another 3 a.m alarm vbekll, if
indeed anyone bothers. Likewise call outs to police etc are always far
too late to be of any value in anything. MUCH nbetter to have a security
camnm system, and online internet connection, and stream videos snaps to
a remorte server.

There are laws that mean you can''t just film anyone without signs informing
them

I don't think that this is true - look at all the police cameras around,
how the police video protest marchers and football supporters. (However,
by law, you can send in a letter and £10 asking for the footage they
have of you, which means that they have to blank everyone else's face
out)

What about tourists taking videos etc ... No, I think you must be wrong
there



I'd say the presence of a cam - dummy or otherwise - is a far greater
deterrent than a conventional alarm system as well....

Except that anyone with half a brain can tell the difference between
most dummy cameras and real ones - for example, our local magistrates
court has a couple of dummy cameras and big signs advertising "CCTV
cameras in operation" - lying *******s !


They have a use but rarely do people have multiplex systems routed to a
time-lapse VCR all around their premises. Alarms are effective in terms of
deterant, cost and practicality but can be overcome by a knowledgeable
intruder but in most cases why would they bother when the house next door
hasn't got one. Alarms should go hand in hand with other common-sense
measures that mean we don't advertise that our houses have items of
particualr value and we are not there.

S.

PS. May be an idea to use a spell-checker



--
geoff

CCTV - is that the system that takes fuzzy pictures of the top of hooded
heads?

--


Regards

John


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Brownie
writes
I said in my original post the sight of an alarm will deter many burglars
as
they will go to an easier house

Or make them think that there is something worth stealing in the house


(iv) Catching burglars. Here alarms are totally ineffective: They will
be gone before anyone takes note of yet another 3 a.m alarm vbekll, if
indeed anyone bothers. Likewise call outs to police etc are always far
too late to be of any value in anything. MUCH nbetter to have a
security
camnm system, and online internet connection, and stream videos snaps
to
a remorte server.

There are laws that mean you can''t just film anyone without signs
informing
them

I don't think that this is true - look at all the police cameras around,
how the police video protest marchers and football supporters. (However,
by law, you can send in a letter and £10 asking for the footage they
have of you, which means that they have to blank everyone else's face
out)

What about tourists taking videos etc ... No, I think you must be wrong
there



I'd say the presence of a cam - dummy or otherwise - is a far greater
deterrent than a conventional alarm system as well....

Except that anyone with half a brain can tell the difference between
most dummy cameras and real ones - for example, our local magistrates
court has a couple of dummy cameras and big signs advertising "CCTV
cameras in operation" - lying *******s !


They have a use but rarely do people have multiplex systems routed to a
time-lapse VCR all around their premises. Alarms are effective in terms
of
deterant, cost and practicality but can be overcome by a knowledgeable
intruder but in most cases why would they bother when the house next door
hasn't got one. Alarms should go hand in hand with other common-sense
measures that mean we don't advertise that our houses have items of
particualr value and we are not there.

S.

PS. May be an idea to use a spell-checker



--
geoff


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18/07/2003

"Brownie" wrote
| "geoff" wrote
| I said in my original post the sight of an alarm will deter many
| burglars as they will go to an easier house
| Or make them think that there is something worth stealing in the house
| That used to be the case when only 'wealthy' people had them. Nowadays
| anyone can afford them and they are on any house and despite your
| alternative thoughts are a known deterrant. Ask a burglar.

It has been said that yours should never be the first nor the last house in
the street to get an alarm.

| I don't think that this is true - look at all the police cameras around,
| They are filming in public places. I don't know the exact law, but I
think
| filming someone on private property without their knowledge is an
| infringement of Human Rights and Data Protection hence the signs.

Individuals aren't bound by the European Convention on Human Rights. I have
heard that filming on private property for domestic purposes (i.e. not
shopping centres etc) isn't covered by the requirements under the Data
Protection Act to register with the Information Commissioner and erect
warning signs - but anyone relying on this should check the DPR / IC website
for the CCTV code of practice.

| Except that anyone with half a brain can tell the difference between
| most dummy cameras and real ones - for example, our local magistrates
| court has a couple of dummy cameras and big signs advertising "CCTV
| cameras in operation" - lying *******s !
| Well I agree with that to some extent as some are obviously dummy cams but
I
| have seen many that look real or can't even be seen.

An established technique is to have a couple of visible dummy cameras, and
covert working ones.

Owain

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:24:26 +0100, "Frisket"
wrote:

You still have the right to a refund - repair or replacement is an option
for the consumer.

You need to read the very tortuous wording of the amendment to see
that in most cases under the new amendments this isn't the case.
Note condition 48C(2) and its reference to 48B(3)

"48C Reduction of purchase price or rescission of contract
(1) If section 48A above applies, the buyer may-
(a) require the seller to reduce the purchase price
of the goods in question to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(b) rescind the contract with regard to those goods,
if the condition in subsection (2) below is satisfied.
(2) The condition is that-
(a) by virtue of section 48B(3) above the buyer may
require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or
(b) the buyer has required the seller to repair or
replace the goods, but the seller is in breach of the requirement of
section 48B(2)(a) above to do so within a reasonable time and without
significant inconvenience to the buyer.
(3) For the purposes of this Part, if the buyer rescinds the
contract, any reimbursement to the buyer may be reduced to take
account of the use he has had of the goods since they were delivered
to him."

"48B(3) The buyer must not require the seller to repair or, as the
case may be, replace the goods if that remedy is-
(a) impossible, or
(b) disproportionate in comparison to the other of those
remedies, or
(c) disproportionate in comparison to an appropriate reduction in
the purchase price under paragraph (a), or rescission under paragraph
(b), of section 48C(1) below."

In other words you cannot demand a refund (or partial refund) under
the new amendments if the supplier is offering repair or replacement.

You can of course still seek the old remedy (and the one which still
applies in business to business transactions) of seeking
"compensation". In this case, as with rejection, the onus is upon
the purchaser to demonstrate the fault was pre-existing - the 6 month
rule does not apply.

The onus of proof the goods were faulty is not with the
consumer - the seller must prove the goods weren't faulty.

Only for the first 6 months and only if you are relying upon the new
amendments. If you are rejecting the goods or seeking compensation
the situation remains as it always has been.

The amendments
were brought in for the benefit of the consumer not the sellers which is why
you can now ask for repair / replacement / partial refund for up to 6 years
from date of purchase.

This has always been the case. The new amendments changed nothing in
this respect and the SOG act doesn't mention 6 years. The 6 years
commonly quoted out of context refers to the Statute of Limitations
which, for a long time, has said you cannot bring a case under the
SOG after 6 years has elapsed. There is no right to a "6 year
warranty" and no requirement for 6yrs of durability.

Bet that has a few arses twitching at the outlets ...

as its been in place since about 1950 I can't think why.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/saleslong.pdf explains it
all.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:24:26 +0100, "Frisket"
wrote:

You still have the right to a refund - repair or replacement is an option
for the consumer.

You need to read the very tortuous wording of the amendment to see
that in most cases under the new amendments this isn't the case.
Note condition 48C(2) and its reference to 48B(3)

"48C Reduction of purchase price or rescission of contract
(1) If section 48A above applies, the buyer may-
(a) require the seller to reduce the purchase price
of the goods in question to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(b) rescind the contract with regard to those goods,
if the condition in subsection (2) below is satisfied.
(2) The condition is that-
(a) by virtue of section 48B(3) above the buyer may
require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or
(b) the buyer has required the seller to repair or
replace the goods, but the seller is in breach of the requirement of
section 48B(2)(a) above to do so within a reasonable time and without
significant inconvenience to the buyer.
(3) For the purposes of this Part, if the buyer rescinds the
contract, any reimbursement to the buyer may be reduced to take
account of the use he has had of the goods since they were delivered
to him."

"48B(3) The buyer must not require the seller to repair or, as the
case may be, replace the goods if that remedy is-
(a) impossible, or
(b) disproportionate in comparison to the other of those
remedies, or
(c) disproportionate in comparison to an appropriate reduction in
the purchase price under paragraph (a), or rescission under paragraph
(b), of section 48C(1) below."

In other words you cannot demand a refund (or partial refund) under
the new amendments if the supplier is offering repair or replacement.

You can of course still seek the old remedy (and the one which still
applies in business to business transactions) of seeking
"compensation". In this case, as with rejection, the onus is upon
the purchaser to demonstrate the fault was pre-existing - the 6 month
rule does not apply.

The onus of proof the goods were faulty is not with the
consumer - the seller must prove the goods weren't faulty.

Only for the first 6 months and only if you are relying upon the new
amendments. If you are rejecting the goods or seeking compensation
the situation remains as it always has been.

The amendments
were brought in for the benefit of the consumer not the sellers which is
why
you can now ask for repair / replacement / partial refund for up to 6
years
from date of purchase.

This has always been the case. The new amendments changed nothing in
this respect and the SOG act doesn't mention 6 years. The 6 years
commonly quoted out of context refers to the Statute of Limitations
which, for a long time, has said you cannot bring a case under the
SOG after 6 years has elapsed. There is no right to a "6 year
warranty" and no requirement for 6yrs of durability.

Bet that has a few arses twitching at the outlets ...

as its been in place since about 1950 I can't think why.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/saleslong.pdf explains it
all.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

If I've misunderstood I apologise, my source was the consumer advice website
(I'll look up the URL later if req'd) but the implication from the OP was
that it was a new system that was faulty on installation.
Richard

In article ,
Frisket wrote:
If I've misunderstood I apologise, my source was the consumer advice
website (I'll look up the URL later if req'd) but the implication from
the OP was that it was a new system that was faulty on installation.

But he installed it himself, and 99% of alarm faults are due to poor
installation.

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Hello,

Providing you sell it honestly as "faulty" or "not working" !

"Martin" wrote in message
...
If Maplin don't come back with a sensible refund offer, mine will be
advertised on ebay soon, with a full description of why I'm selling it!
So if you want a bargain....

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
I am planning to install myself but have not ruled the professional
option
dependant on price. I live in the west midlands region and have a big 3
bed
semi, I would like to cover all 3 bedrooms, upstairs and downstairs
landing/hallway, and 3 rooms downstairs. An auto dialler would be
desirable
but not essential.

"Brownie" wrote in message
...

"Sanj" wrote in message
...
Hi

I am in the process of buying a burglar alarm for a 3 bedroom
semi-detached
house. Has anyone bought any good (wired) alarms recently I have a
budget
of £200-250

Advice needed....thanx

You don't say if you are doing it yourself or spending that to have it
installed. If it is the latter it is quite a tight budget, if it is
the
former that is quite a generous amount. You will always get differing
opinions and experiences but (professionally) I'd advise hard wired
systems
(not radio linked sensors) with easy setting (for all the family not
just
techno bods) of zones or where you can store different configurations
i.e.
it is easy to set one way if you leave the house and another way if
you
go
to bed at night. Wire it so you can use it overnight isolating
downstairs
and perhaps any vulnerable spare upstairs rooms if they have a flat
roof
etc. It is also a good idea to buy a system with more than enough
zones
in
case you add the garage, shed another outbuilding (many get break-ins
overnight). You may want or be able to add an autodialler so it can
ring
you on a mobile if it goes off, or you can get alarms monitored if it
is
professionally installed. Some insurance companies give discounts for
alarms but look at the terms carefully - the saving is often only
20-30
quid
and you may be uninsured if you forget to set it or aren't on a
maintainance
contract.

Don't have too many PIR sensors, make sure the sensors aren't facing
directly at heat/movement sources such as cookers and sunny windows,
make
sure the sensors aren't too sensitive(you can usually adjust). When
you
site sensors it is a good idea to spray and wipe with insect spray and
put
a
piece of cotton wool concealed just behind previously soaked in insect
spray.

Most of the work for an alarm is done just by a burglar seeing the box
on
the front of the house so the ones with flashing LEDs show it is real.
When
you get it, it is important it has credability and you respect your
neighbours. Make sure it doesn't keep going off and you properly shut
internal doors, don't have curtains flapping etc. otherwise people
don't
take any notice. Many areas have by-laws saying alarms should only
activate
for around 5-20 minutes max. Make sure neighbours know where to get a
keyholder if you are away.

Test your alarm around once a month, the bell box batteries tend to
last
only 2-3 years. Many people don't realise their (bell box and panel)
batteries have failed as they test on the mains and if switched off
the
alarm dies in seconds.