On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:16:09 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:32:12 +0100, "www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
wrote:

On 29/04/2016 15:11, lid wrote:
We're having new windows put in to our house. I've narrowed down the
choice to either Everest or Anglian. They are comparable in products
and cost.

Is there anything wrong with either of these two companies? Is one
generally preferable to the other?

Avoid BOTH !

looking at;

http://www.everest.co.uk/about/reviews/

https://www.anglianhome.co.uk/customer-reviews

they seem to have a lot of happy customers, which is counter to what
people have said on this group.

Do you think the recommendations are staged, artificial?

I prefer a natonal firm with a ten year guarantee. As long as they don't
overcharge me massively, I see no advantage to a local firm.

Our local firm (East Kent) was Mark Russell Glazing who gave a 10 year
warranty (which we've used a couple of times). As I said, they were also
cheaper then the national chains.

Useful to know. I need a couple of those Anglian one replaced completely.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless. The OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:25:58 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:01:21 +0100, charles
wrote:
snip

Some years ago I answered an advert in a national paper to renew my
drive. I was visted, shown lots of photos and quoted a silly price.
Some months later I had a phone call "since we're doing work in the area
and if you pay cash there won't be any VAT" They quoted half the origal
price. I said "I don't do business that way" and put the phone down. I
had a local firm do something very much more attractive and costing even
less |(and I paid VAT).

sigh

The worrying thing about all this is there are so many people who do
just take them up on their first quotes. We do sometimes get to see them
and their 'efforts' on the likes of Rogue Traders, Dodgy Builders and
Watchdog ... and hear the sad tales of those who fell for it all (who
often really can't afford to and are embarrassed and often traumatised
by the whole sorry business). ;-(

A long time ago, we got quotes from Anglian, a local guy and someone
else. The local guy quoted a final (good) price and stuck to it.

We had fun with them. We arranged the seating so that the salesman
couldn't look at us both at once. Then we made it clear by words and
actions that we had equal input into the final decision (or made it
unclear who was driving the deal). A lot of head swivelling.

We also (more recently) has British Gas quote for a replacement boiler
(they had maintained and broken the old one). This was more for sport
than anything else.

When the man arrived, I told him he had exactly half an hour (he said
"are you going out, then?" and I replied just that he had half an hour. I
also told him no decision would be made that day. I challenged his sizing
of the boiler (I had worked it out at 24kW, and he said 18kW). And a few
other things. After all the 'discounts', he quoted £3400 for flush,
boiler and some TRVs. I got an excellent job from the local man for £1900
(replaced all the valves, not just the TRVs); to be fair, I ended up
doing the sparks on that one to save time - it was cold!

On 29 Apr 2016 22:06:04 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

snip

A long time ago, we got quotes from Anglian, a local guy and someone
else. The local guy quoted a final (good) price and stuck to it.

We had fun with them. We arranged the seating so that the salesman
couldn't look at us both at once. Then we made it clear by words and
actions that we had equal input into the final decision (or made it
unclear who was driving the deal). A lot of head swivelling.

That's a god idea, make a sport of it, like I do with the solar panel,
PPI and 'Microsoft Windows' companies who call. ;-)

We also (more recently) has British Gas quote for a replacement boiler
(they had maintained and broken the old one). This was more for sport
than anything else.

;-)

When the man arrived, I told him he had exactly half an hour (he said
"are you going out, then?" and I replied just that he had half an hour.

weg

I
also told him no decision would be made that day.

More wind out of his sails.

I challenged his sizing
of the boiler (I had worked it out at 24kW, and he said 18kW).

(Probably to make the deal cheaper as he probably realised you weren't
a pushover?)

And a few
other things. After all the 'discounts', he quoted £3400 for flush,
boiler and some TRVs. I got an excellent job from the local man for £1900
(replaced all the valves, not just the TRVs); to be fair, I ended up
doing the sparks on that one to save time - it was cold!

And at least you know that bit was done properly. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:03:25 +0100, invalid wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless. The
OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that 95%
would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales are from
returning customers buying more home improvements products from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course? These
companies must be doing something right to get this volume of sales.

To be honest, it looks as if you've already decided, and just want us to
validate your decision.

Which we haven't. Too bad.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:32:12 +0100, "www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
wrote:

On 29/04/2016 15:11, lid wrote:
We're having new windows put in to our house. I've narrowed down the
choice to either Everest or Anglian. They are comparable in products
and cost.

Is there anything wrong with either of these two companies? Is one
generally preferable to the other?

Avoid BOTH !

looking at;

http://www.everest.co.uk/about/reviews/

https://www.anglianhome.co.uk/customer-reviews

they seem to have a lot of happy customers, which is counter to what
people have said on this group.

Do you think the recommendations are staged, artificial?

Just easily conned and don't compare, just buy what
the goon that shows up at the door cons them into.

I prefer a natonal firm with a ten year guarantee.

Sure, but that doesn't mean they wont go bust before that
and don't slither out of the guarantee when you need it.

As long as they don't overcharge me massively,
I see no advantage to a local firm.

On 29/04/2016 16:25, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 29/04/2016 15:53, lid wrote:

looking at;

http://www.everest.co.uk/about/reviews/

https://www.anglianhome.co.uk/customer-reviews

they seem to have a lot of happy customers, which is counter to what
people have said on this group.

Do you think the recommendations are staged, artificial?

Look where those reviews are hosted.

Your money, your choice.

National companies are just as likely (or more so) to go into
receivership/liquidation than established local ones so a 10 year
warranty isn't worth paying 30% or more over the odds for as it's pretty
meaningless (in my view) but if it gives you peace of mind then it's
whatever works for you.

Years ago, a friend of mine used to assemble and sell computers. He
offered warranties that were insurance backed - ie it didn't matter if
he disappeared, stopped trading or whatever, as the warranty was with an
independent insurance company. I wonder if any of the windows companies
do something similar?

On Friday, 29 April 2016 23:03:29 UTC+1, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless. The OP is clearly one of those.

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.

I see I was spot on about you.


NT

On Saturday, 30 April 2016 00:48:26 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/04/2016 16:25, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

National companies are just as likely (or more so) to go into
receivership/liquidation than established local ones so a 10 year
warranty isn't worth paying 30% or more over the odds for as it's pretty
meaningless (in my view) but if it gives you peace of mind then it's
whatever works for you.

Years ago, a friend of mine used to assemble and sell computers. He
offered warranties that were insurance backed - ie it didn't matter if
he disappeared, stopped trading or whatever, as the warranty was with an
independent insurance company. I wonder if any of the windows companies
do something similar?

What would a 10 year guarantee be useful for? The things that occasionally die between 1 & 10 years are low cost replaceables such as handles. So worth very little.


NT

AFAFIn article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 30 April 2016 00:48:26 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/04/2016 16:25, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

National companies are just as likely (or more so) to go into
receivership/liquidation than established local ones so a 10 year
warranty isn't worth paying 30% or more over the odds for as it's
pretty meaningless (in my view) but if it gives you peace of mind
then it's whatever works for you.

Years ago, a friend of mine used to assemble and sell computers. He
offered warranties that were insurance backed - ie it didn't matter if
he disappeared, stopped trading or whatever, as the warranty was with
an independent insurance company. I wonder if any of the windows
companies do something similar?

What would a 10 year guarantee be useful for? The things that
occasionally die between 1 & 10 years are low cost replaceables such as
handles. So worth very little.

Leaking seal allowing condensation inside the double glazing would be the
most likely.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

in 1480227 20160429 152746 lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:13:13 -0000 (UTC), Tim+
wrote:

wrote:
We're having new windows put in to our house. I've narrowed down the
choice to either Everest or Anglian. They are comparable in products
and cost.

Is there anything wrong with either of these two companies? Is one
generally preferable to the other?

Advice, please.


Well, they're pretty well match when it comes to giving ridiculously
over-inflated quotes and using hard sell techniques I believe.

I've only once let an Everest salesman through my door. Never again.

Tim

We got quotes from two other firms, one a reputable local company. The
numbers were all in the same ball-park.

I have nothing against employing Anglian or Everest, it's whether they
do a good job, apart from the sales pitch.

Everest quoted me over £8000 to replace our French doors, "but with our
promotional discounts we can reduce that to £5500".
I went to an outfit on the local trading estate who did an excellent job for £1400.

On 29/04/2016 21:05, lid wrote:


Neither Everest nor Anglian have entries in checkatrade.com. Are they
afraid of negative feedback, or is there some other reason for their
exclusion?


The MD of checkatrade was on the radio 4 yesterday defending his company
and why complaints from a customer using his service were dealt with in
an unsatisfactory way.

I had some sympathy with the MD in this case in that it was a no win
situation as the customer insisted that he didn't want the building firm
knowing who had complained but the process was to give the building firm
21 days to correct the faults before taking further action. No action
was taken and the high rating for the building firm was maintained.


What put me off from ever using this web site is that the MD agreed with
the statement from a representative of the building industry [I
paraphrase] that the man in the street couldn't judge good or bad
building work and negative comments from customers should be treated
with suspicion.

Surely if the average man in the street cannot judge good workmanship
the good reviews on that site should also be discarded!

The listeners were informed that checkatrade is not a charity or a
consumer orientated web site but is a commercial operation that
companies pay to be on.



The representative from the building industry (a buildings surveyor???)
suggested that a member of his organisation should be employed for all
home owner building work and the Government should legislate to make it so.



--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 29/04/2016 21:05, lid wrote:

Or is there some other reason for their
exclusion?


They don't pay to go on the site - nor do thousands of respected traders
in the windows and building industries. The reviews are only for
companies that have previously paid to be on the site and they don't
appear solely on a customer recommendation.




--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 29/04/16 21:05, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:44:09 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

You should look he
http://www.checkatrade.com/Search/?l...roydon&cat=107

Albion Windows are listed by Checkatrade
(http://www.checkatrade.com/AlbionWin...nservatories/), so should
be fine, but there are a lot of other companies listed as well. You
should get a couple of other quotes from them too.

Good.

Neither Everest nor Anglian have entries in checkatrade.com. Are they
afraid of negative feedback, or is there some other reason for their
exclusion?

Who knows? Maybe they think they are too big to be the sort of
tradesperson that Checkatrade is set up for. In any case, they have to
apply to be members and they are vetted:
http://www.checkatrade.com/Join/FAQ....undcheckw ork

Checkatrade note: "Not all trades and services are accepted as members.
Checkatrade is only as good as its worst member and we have suspended
members for poor service or/and workmanship."

--

Jeff

Also of course its often not the quality of the windows which is the issue,
its the reliability of the local contractor they both get to fit them. You
do hear of horror stories like bay windows where the support of the top bit
containing the roof tiles has not been held up during the install or even
the gap filled with foam resulting in collapses or leaks later on.

I will just say this, whoever fits them maake sure that any warranty on the
work is underwritten by a known company like an insurance company, not by
the fitting company etc, as they tend to not be worth the paper they are
written on.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
wrote:
We're having new windows put in to our house. I've narrowed down the
choice to either Everest or Anglian. They are comparable in products
and cost.

Is there anything wrong with either of these two companies? Is one
generally preferable to the other?

Advice, please.


Well, they're pretty well match when it comes to giving ridiculously
over-inflated quotes and using hard sell techniques I believe.

I've only once let an Everest salesman through my door. Never again.

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

On 29/04/16 23:03, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless. The OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.

Lying, mostly.

I mean, look at how many people vote Labour and will vote EU....

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 30/04/16 08:22, alan_m wrote:
On 29/04/2016 21:05, lid wrote:


Neither Everest nor Anglian have entries in checkatrade.com. Are they
afraid of negative feedback, or is there some other reason for their
exclusion?


The MD of checkatrade was on the radio 4 yesterday defending his company
and why complaints from a customer using his service were dealt with in
an unsatisfactory way.

I had some sympathy with the MD in this case in that it was a no win
situation as the customer insisted that he didn't want the building firm
knowing who had complained but the process was to give the building firm
21 days to correct the faults before taking further action. No action
was taken and the high rating for the building firm was maintained.


What put me off from ever using this web site is that the MD agreed with
the statement from a representative of the building industry [I
paraphrase] that the man in the street couldn't judge good or bad
building work and negative comments from customers should be treated
with suspicion.

Surely if the average man in the street cannot judge good workmanship
the good reviews on that site should also be discarded!


That is extremely disturbing. Checkatrade is already biases as their
revenue comes from the people who might get negative reviews. And all
this "give the trade 21 days blah blah" is ********.

We need a site like tripadvisor or amazon reviews, where you can say
what you like, good or bad.

On 30/04/16 09:08, Tim Watts wrote:


We need a site like tripadvisor or amazon reviews, where you can say
what you like, good or bad.

Its called uk.d-i-y



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On 29/04/2016 23:03, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless. The OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"


They'd hardly say otherwise :-) I'd wager a small sum that the
anonymised raw data is not forthcoming . . .

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.


Funnily enough, the only experience of Everest is second hand - a house
on my street had some conservation grade sash windows. Look a load
better than a number of the other recent replacements, and they were in
and out in under 2 days. They seem to have fabricated the bay off-site
and just slotted it in.

A local firm took two weeks to do my neighbour's (bay and 2 first
floor), and IIRC Everest were a grand cheaper (£4k vs £5k - the quotes
are online on the planning portal).

All of that said, I'd ask one of the big companies for some local
examples of their work, and tap on the door and ask how it went. I don't
know how they operate but I'd think there's a degree of local variation.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 29/04/2016 17:58, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 17:44:41 +0100, F news@nowhere wrote:

Is one generally preferable to the other?

No, they're both as bad.

Advice, please.

Ask around and go for the local guy. Visit his premises if you can.

The local guy is; http://albionwindows.co.uk/

albiion quoted approx 6,200, whereas Everest quoted approx 6,500

I suppose both of them are quite reputable.

What shall I do to decide, toss a coin? Is there really anything
between them? whisky-dave seems happy with Everest.

I don't know Albion but, if he's local, he's going to need to keep his
reputation. If Everest or Anglian screw up they have the rest of the
country as a source of business.

Save the £300 and avoid giving Everest and Anglian any more
opportunities to do what they do. Win-win!

--
F

On Saturday, 30 April 2016 11:15:27 UTC+1, F wrote:
On 29/04/2016 17:58, lid wrote:

The local guy is; http://albionwindows.co.uk/

albiion quoted approx 6,200, whereas Everest quoted approx 6,500

I suppose both of them are quite reputable.

What shall I do to decide, toss a coin? Is there really anything
between them? whisky-dave seems happy with Everest.

I don't know Albion but, if he's local, he's going to need to keep his
reputation. If Everest or Anglian screw up they have the rest of the
country as a source of business.

Save the £300 and avoid giving Everest and Anglian any more
opportunities to do what they do. Win-win!

He should save way more than £300. But it seems he wants to be ripped off..


NT

On 30/04/2016 11:20, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 April 2016 11:15:27 UTC+1, F wrote:
On 29/04/2016 17:58, lid wrote:

The local guy is; http://albionwindows.co.uk/

albiion quoted approx 6,200, whereas Everest quoted approx 6,500

I suppose both of them are quite reputable.

What shall I do to decide, toss a coin? Is there really anything
between them? whisky-dave seems happy with Everest.

I don't know Albion but, if he's local, he's going to need to keep his
reputation. If Everest or Anglian screw up they have the rest of the
country as a source of business.

Save the £300 and avoid giving Everest and Anglian any more
opportunities to do what they do. Win-win!

He should save way more than £300.

I agree, the savings compared with those two outfits should be much
greater, but the choice seemed to be between the three.

--
F

On 30/04/16 11:20, wrote:
On Saturday, 30 April 2016 11:15:27 UTC+1, F wrote:
On 29/04/2016 17:58, lid wrote:

The local guy is; http://albionwindows.co.uk/

albiion quoted approx 6,200, whereas Everest quoted approx 6,500

I suppose both of them are quite reputable.

What shall I do to decide, toss a coin? Is there really anything
between them? whisky-dave seems happy with Everest.

I don't know Albion but, if he's local, he's going to need to keep his
reputation. If Everest or Anglian screw up they have the rest of the
country as a source of business.

Save the £300 and avoid giving Everest and Anglian any more
opportunities to do what they do. Win-win!

He should save way more than £300. But it seems he wants to be ripped off..


FUD

More people vote with their votes or their chequebooks - to avoid risk
stuff than to get good stuff.



Everest appear to have some sort of guarantee. They dont in reality,
buts that's how they try to appear.


NT



--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On 29 Apr 2016 22:52:30 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that 95%
would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales are from
returning customers buying more home improvements products from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course? These
companies must be doing something right to get this volume of sales.

To be honest, it looks as if you've already decided, and just want us to
validate your decision.

Which we haven't. Too bad.

Yes, I'm afraid you're right. I would choose the two big national
firms on the basis of "safety in numbers".

I am tempted by albion, who did a good job for a family friend. If
they were to reduce their prices (circa 6300) to significantly below
Everest (6600) then I think I would employ them.

I suppose I can ask their guy for another quote. They have a showroom
in Croydon, which I could visit.

wrote in message
...
On 29 Apr 2016 22:52:30 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that 95%
would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales are from
returning customers buying more home improvements products from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course? These
companies must be doing something right to get this volume of sales.

To be honest, it looks as if you've already decided, and just want us to
validate your decision.

Which we haven't. Too bad.

Yes, I'm afraid you're right. I would choose the two big national
firms on the basis of "safety in numbers".

I am tempted by albion, who did a good job for a family friend. If
they were to reduce their prices (circa 6300) to significantly below
Everest (6600) then I think I would employ them.

I suppose I can ask their guy for another quote. They have a showroom
in Croydon, which I could visit.

If you wanna be ripped off, go with the big boys. The ones who spend a
fortune of your money on advertising.
The ones who can magically find a 50% reduction, yea, right. I'm afraid
these boys rely on suckers.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/16 23:03, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless. The
OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.

Lying, mostly.

I mean, look at how many people vote Labour

I think that's a little bit unfair

Many people vote labour because they do share the same ideology and TBH, if
you are are of that political persuasion what other choice do you have?

And I'm not talking about nutty lefties who go on marches, just normal
people who believe in "fairness for workers".

The fact that they are a shambles in office is just not part of the equation
when the policies of the only other alternative are abhorrent to you

tim

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2016 16:25, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 29/04/2016 15:53, lid wrote:

looking at;

http://www.everest.co.uk/about/reviews/

https://www.anglianhome.co.uk/customer-reviews

they seem to have a lot of happy customers, which is counter to what
people have said on this group.

Do you think the recommendations are staged, artificial?

Look where those reviews are hosted.

Your money, your choice.

National companies are just as likely (or more so) to go into
receivership/liquidation than established local ones so a 10 year
warranty isn't worth paying 30% or more over the odds for as it's pretty
meaningless (in my view) but if it gives you peace of mind then it's
whatever works for you.

Years ago, a friend of mine used to assemble and sell computers. He
offered warranties that were insurance backed - ie it didn't matter if he
disappeared, stopped trading or whatever, as the warranty was with an
independent insurance company. I wonder if any of the windows companies do
something similar?

some do

some don't

doesn't always help - sometime it is the insurance co that goes bust!

tim

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:44:09 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

You should look he
http://www.checkatrade.com/Search/?l...roydon&cat=107

Albion Windows are listed by Checkatrade
(http://www.checkatrade.com/AlbionWin...nservatories/), so should
be fine, but there are a lot of other companies listed as well. You
should get a couple of other quotes from them too.

Good.

Neither Everest nor Anglian have entries in checkatrade.com. Are they
afraid of negative feedback, or is there some other reason for their
exclusion?

Because, despite its pretence of being a helpful consumer aid, it's a
commercial organisation looking to turn itself into a billion pound 'net
company.

As you don't pay it a penny the turnover to achieve that must come from the
advertisers, and national companies with an established rep don't see the
need to pay tuppny-bit companies for leads.

tim

On 30/04/16 13:58, tim... wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/16 23:03, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless.
The OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.

Lying, mostly.

I mean, look at how many people vote Labour

I think that's a little bit unfair

Many people vote labour because they do share the same ideology and TBH,
if you are are of that political persuasion what other choice do you have?

They vote Labour because they fall for an ideology that can be shown to
never work in practice, and never has.

Who doesn't want peace on earth goodwill to all men, and equality
everywhere (apart from Plowman, who loves to hate).?

Wanting something is no reason to vote for someone else who says they
want it (unecessarily, because everyone does) but have never delivered
it in 100 years.


And I'm not talking about nutty lefties who go on marches, just normal
people who believe in "fairness for workers".


Which is, when you try and work out what it means, utter ********. Not
that there are any 'workers' left.


Yopu might as well vote for 'fairness for arseholes'. Why just workers?
Why not fairness for the idle rich, white men, and people with red hair?
Thats the intrinsic bigotry of Labour. To unfairly identify one 'class'
and set it against all the others.


The fact that they are a shambles in office is just not part of the
equation when the policies of the only other alternative are abhorrent
to you


Well that's two parties, what about the other 4-5?


In the end its all negative marketing. Vote labour or let the tories in?

Crap.
tim











--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

"Phil L" wrote in message
...
lid wrote:
We're having new windows put in to our house. I've narrowed down the
choice to either Everest or Anglian. They are comparable in products
and cost.

Is there anything wrong with either of these two companies? Is one
generally preferable to the other?

Advice, please.

Neither.
If any of their fitters were competent, they'd be working for themselves
instead of doing the same job for a fraction of the money they could make

It's not quite like that

To go from being a "fitter" to bidding for complete installations you have
to have the advertising budget/staff to attract/process leads, and you have
to have the cash flow to pay for the windows before the punter pays you.

As it is not uncommon for 15 quid an hour jobbing trades to live "hand to
mouth" they never manage to get themselves into a position where they can
become bigger.

Obviously that doesn't apply to all of them ;-)

tim

"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2016 23:03, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless. The
OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"


They'd hardly say otherwise :-) I'd wager a small sum that the anonymised
raw data is not forthcoming . . .

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.


Funnily enough, the only experience of Everest is second hand - a house on
my street had some conservation grade sash windows. Look a load better
than a number of the other recent replacements, and they were in and out
in under 2 days. They seem to have fabricated the bay off-site and just
slotted it in.

A local firm took two weeks to do my neighbour's (bay and 2 first floor),
and IIRC Everest were a grand cheaper (£4k vs £5k - the quotes are online
on the planning portal).

All of that said, I'd ask one of the big companies for some local examples
of their work, and tap on the door and ask how it went.

Problem with that approach is that they are hardly
likely to tell you about the ones they ****ed up.

I don't know how they operate but I'd think there's a degree of local
variation.

It would be a lot more surprising if there wasn’t.

wrote in message
...
On 29 Apr 2016 22:52:30 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that 95%
would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales are from
returning customers buying more home improvements products from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course? These
companies must be doing something right to get this volume of sales.

To be honest, it looks as if you've already decided, and just want us to
validate your decision.

Which we haven't. Too bad.

Yes, I'm afraid you're right. I would choose the two big national
firms on the basis of "safety in numbers".

Mad, tho it is certainly easier to see what they mostly deliver with those.

I am tempted by albion, who did a good job for a family friend. If
they were to reduce their prices (circa 6300) to significantly below
Everest (6600) then I think I would employ them.

I suppose I can ask their guy for another quote. They have a showroom
in Croydon, which I could visit.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 30/04/16 13:58, tim... wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/16 23:03, lid wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That's why such companies exist, to harvest cash from the clueless.
The OP is clearly one of those.


NT

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud that
95% would recommend us to their friends and 42% of our weekly sales
are from returning customers buying more home improvements products
from us"

Hmmmm .... is everyone else "clueless", apart from you, of course?
These companies must be doing something right to get this volume of
sales.

Lying, mostly.

I mean, look at how many people vote Labour

I think that's a little bit unfair

Many people vote labour because they do share the same ideology and TBH,
if you are are of that political persuasion what other choice do you
have?

They vote Labour because they fall for an ideology that can be shown to
never work in practice, and never has.

Worked fine for Norway with their oil and gas and power generation
industries.

And for France with their nukes too.

And for all of those with their health care systems, and for Britain too.

Who doesn't want peace on earth goodwill to all men,

Bigots like harry.

and equality everywhere

Plenty have enough of a clue to realise that isnt possible.

(apart from Plowman, who loves to hate).?

Of course you never hate anything, eh ?

Wanting something is no reason to vote for someone else who says they want
it (unecessarily, because everyone does) but have never delivered it in
100 years.

But he does have a point that if you want say free
education right through to and including university
education, you aren't going to get that from the Torys.

And I'm not talking about nutty lefties who go on marches, just normal
people who believe in "fairness for workers".


Which is, when you try and work out what it means, utter ********. Not
that there are any 'workers' left.

There are always hordes of workers, as opposed to bosses.

Yopu might as well vote for 'fairness for arseholes'. Why just workers?

Because they consider themselves to be workers. And people like Dave the
sot are workers too in the sense that they aren't management or bosses.

Why not fairness for the idle rich, white men, and people with red hair?
Thats the intrinsic bigotry of Labour. To unfairly identify one 'class'
and set it against all the others.

Or course you never do anything like that yourself with the left, eh ?

The fact that they are a shambles in office is just not part of the
equation when the policies of the only other alternative are abhorrent
to you


Well that's two parties, what about the other 4-5?

They have no possibility what so ever of being the govt and deciding what
happens.

In the end its all negative marketing. Vote labour or let the tories in?

Crap.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:13:13 -0000 (UTC), Tim+
wrote:


Well, they're pretty well match when it comes to giving ridiculously
over-inflated quotes and using hard sell techniques I believe.

I've only once let an Everest salesman through my door. Never again.

Tim

Did you let him out again?
It's illegal to release vermin you have trapped back into the wild.
You were obliged to humanely dispatch it.

G.Harman

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:52:11 +0100, T i m wrote:



Unfortunately I'm going to have to agree with the general suggestion
of staying away from the big boys and trying to find a good local
firm.


Even a local firm that goods at first glance should be checked
carefully.

This firm does a good job I'm sure . Lots of happy customers no doubt
as mentioned on the website.
http://www.applehomeimprovements.co....FS8z0wodCFYJ8g

Not a mention of the recent closure of the Weymouth subsidiary
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/141...y_liquidation/

Or the ruthlessness behind the respectable front.
http://www.tradingstandards.uk/extra...fm/newsid/1428


G.Harman

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:11:58 +0100, lid wrote:

Is there anything wrong with either of these two companies? Is one
generally preferable to the other?

Anglian are a load of self employed window fitters working for the
local Anglian franchise who aren't good enough to get work fitting
windows any other way. When (not if) the installation is not of
standard suitable standard Anglian head office won't want to know and
only point you back at the franchise. It also says something when the
franchise has to have another team of fitters fully employed going
round corecting instalation problems.

Both Everest and Anglian employ dubious sales techniques. The
"discounts" are not really real, they fiddle the figures by have
stupidly high list prices, and sail very close to the wind on how
those list prices qualify for being used as the discount reference.

You'll get equally good prices, if not better, with a better
installation from a local installer. Ask around and see who has a
good reputation.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:53:15 +0100, lid wrote:

looking at;

http://www.everest.co.uk/about/reviews/

https://www.anglianhome.co.uk/customer-reviews

they seem to have a lot of happy customers, which is counter to what
people have said on this group.

You trust the marketing content of a company website?

Do you think the recommendations are staged, artificial?

Probably not but what precentage of total customers do those reviews
represent and what is the precentage of bad reviews?

I prefer a natonal firm with a ten year guarantee.

Why? Small local firm has a reputation to maintain or they'll go
out of business as the word gets around. Any guarantee of that
duration isn't worth the paper it is written on unless insurance
backed, no matter the size of the company. Look at how many
apparently succesful big companies have gone bust recently. Anglian
and Everest will have spent a lot of money on lawyers writting the
small print of the "gaurantee" to minimise any claims. It may even
tie you into an annual "maintence check" that has to be done by a a
"qualified" entity at £50/window or similar catch...

As long as they don't overcharge me massively,

Define "massively". Ignore any list prices from Anglian/Everest they
are just a sales scam. As a guess I'd expect a good local installer
to be 20 to 50% below A or E.

I see no advantage to a local firm.

Local firm relies on reputation and word of mouth to stay in
business. Anglian/Everest spend a fortune on ads... Having has double
galzing installed by Anglian and a local firm you really, really, do
not want to use Anglian and Everest are in the same camp as far as
sales pitch is concerned. I did not like the abusive response I got
when I phoned to reject an Everest quote or the follow up calls
trying to make me change my mind.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 17:40:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

they seem to have a lot of happy customers, which is counter to
what
people have said on this group.

Do you think the recommendations are staged, artificial?

Yes.

Making them up would be venturing into very grey area legally,
misrepresentation? fraud? advertsising standards? They probably are
genuine comments but selected comments...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:41:38 +0100, RJH wrote:

Everest boasts "Over 2 million happy customers" and "Over 50 years
experience".

40,000 customers/year, maybe, that's 100 jobs on *every* day of the
year.

"50 years of experience" in what? High pressure sales techinques or
doing good installs of double glazing?

Anglian say "We've more than a million customers and are proud
that
95% would recommend us to their friends

You may have guess I'm very firmly in the 5% group. An only a million
customers against Everest 2 million *happy* ones. Anglian stared in
1966, Everest in 1965.

... and 42% of our weekly sales are from returning customers
buying
more home improvements products from us"

So the high pressure sales works in beating people into submission
and getting them to buy "extras" in follow up calls.

They'd hardly say otherwise :-) I'd wager a small sum that the
anonymised raw data is not forthcoming . . .

I'm sure it won't be.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 02/05/2016 10:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Both Everest and Anglian employ dubious sales techniques. The
"discounts" are not really real, they fiddle the figures by have
stupidly high list prices, and sail very close to the wind on how
those list prices qualify for being used as the discount reference.

We had someone round a couple of years ago to quote for some blinds. He
came up with a price but as soon as I said they were too expensive he
was 'able to offer' a 30% reduction 'if you order today'. I told him to
go. If he wanted to rip me off to the extent of 30% then he wasn't going
to take up any more of my time.

Anglian and Everest had tried the same with me previously and got the
same response.

--
F