In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Same thing in the TV field there was a Dynatron just a standard BRC
chassis like their lowly brethren but it had a nice "cabinet"

But the 'nice cabinet' often made room for a larger and better loudspeaker
and maybe even facing forward. Rather than the tiny ones most sets used -
often facing to the side.


Yes indeed but the very few I heard weren't at all impressive the one
that was, the Philips K70 chassis

That was very good indeed...

Treble and bass controls IIRC....
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:

The most amusing car I saw from BMC was the Vanden Plas - 1100! The
owners of course swore it was faster, more economical, built better,
etc...


Same thing in the TV field there was a Dynatron just a standard BRC
chassis like their lowly brethren but it had a nice "cabinet"

Apparently they had or once had the Royal Warrant to the Queen who
supposedly had one at Buck palace....

According to the Which? survey on tv at the time, the HMV version was far
less reliable that the Fergusson. Only difference was the cabinet.


Migh have offered better ventilation?...

I think the pressed board back was indentical.

Much later I came across the material on which they had based their report.
They has 2 HMV sets, one of which developed a fault - so 50% of HMV sets
were bad!

Mina had a fault, too. Dry joint in a wire feeding an "off the PCB" power
transitor. I resoldered it and had another 10 years of life out of it.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 12:51:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 23/08/15 11:53, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/08/15 23:33, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/15 23:22, Tim+ wrote:

Earlier you wrote:

However a car adjusted to run on low grade fuel either by fixed design or
automatically will still run better on better fuel.

Now you're saying:

All cars will run best on a particular grade and better or worse on others.

Just make up your ****ing mind will you you patronising ******.


The two statements are consistent.

I don't see the problem. Unless its with your brain.

Consistent with someone back-pedalling furiously.

It ain't me babe. I stand by both of those statements.


Tim

In that case your mind is illogical.
--
Dave W

On 23/08/15 20:30, Dave W wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 12:51:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 23/08/15 11:53, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/08/15 23:33, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/15 23:22, Tim+ wrote:

Earlier you wrote:

However a car adjusted to run on low grade fuel either by fixed design or
automatically will still run better on better fuel.

Now you're saying:

All cars will run best on a particular grade and better or worse on others.

Just make up your ****ing mind will you you patronising ******.


The two statements are consistent.

I don't see the problem. Unless its with your brain.

Consistent with someone back-pedalling furiously.

It ain't me babe. I stand by both of those statements.


Tim

In that case your mind is illogical.

On the contrary, yours is merely blinkered.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:05:19 AM UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:44:51 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

Storage of fuel surely has to be nailed by now.

Quite the opposite. Modern fuel is more volatile than it used to be, and
"goes off" more quickly.

Supermarket fuel comes from the same small handful of regional
distribution depots as any other fuel. Their tanks are fed from the same
pipelines from the same tiny handful of national refineries as any other
fuel.

The ONLY difference is the almost homeopathic buckets of additive poured
into the tanker at the time of filling.

Or the non-homeopathic buckets of highly non-approved additives added by the
forecourt :-(

There was a story in the local paper about 40 years ago about a garage owner
nearby who had been prosecuted for adding buckets of *water* (yes, water!)
to his forecourt petrol tanks to make the delivery go further!!! People had
been complaining that their cars misfired after filling up at his garage.
The tank was dipped and the petrol was found to be contaminated with water.
He tried to claim in court that rainwater had been leaking into the tank -
until an undercover photo was produced showing him pouring a liquid from a
bucket into the manhole of the tank...

Petrol and water will separate out unless stirred. I ran out of petrol one wet rainy night and a local farmer sold me a gallon in a can. Then the car would start ok in the morning, run for about a mile and stop. Water in the fuel. Separating out over night in the carburettor float chamber was the diagnosis

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:01:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 23/08/15 12:52, AnthonyL wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:11:47 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Anyway, the VdP ADO16 was never anywhere NEAR as amusing as the VdP
1500... The posh Allegro.

The Allegro was amusing just by being an Allegro. Which bozo thought of
having a square ("quartic") steering wheel, given that the whole point of a
steering wheel is that it is circular and rotates about its centre so it
feeds easily through your hands as you turn it. Any "lumps" in the circle
make this very difficult.


Tell that to Lewis Hamilton!

Only drivers who follow learner instruction slavishly, or who have
steering with no power assistance on a low ratio rack or box, 'feed the
wheel through their hands' . Its a technique designed so that stupid
noobs never let go of the wheel.


Racing drivers cross their arms over on tight corners.


I got a severe admonishment from the expert accompanying me on a track
day for push-pull steering in a Lotus Elite. The main issue is that
you have a poor sense of what angle your wheels are at with that
procedure.


--
AnthonyL

On 22/08/2015 11:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
Mind you, the elastic (sorry, Hydrolastic) suspension might have limited
its road-holding on a race track :-)

The Allegro - in good condition - handled very well. Much better than many
of the conventionally sprung cars of the day.


But the bodywork steel was only a few atoms thick and the windscreen was
the main structural member which would pop out if you jacked the car up
in the wrong place.

Cheers
--
Syd

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:38:33 +0100, Syd Rumpo wrote:

But the bodywork steel was only a few atoms thick and the windscreen was
the main structural member which would pop out if you jacked the car up
in the wrong place.

....when urban myths meet chinese whispers...

In article ,
Syd Rumpo wrote:
The Allegro - in good condition - handled very well. Much better than many
of the conventionally sprung cars of the day.


But the bodywork steel was only a few atoms thick

You've been reading cereal box backs again.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:38:33 +0100, Syd Rumpo wrote:

But the bodywork steel was only a few atoms thick and the windscreen
was the main structural member which would pop out if you jacked the
car up in the wrong place.

...when urban myths meet chinese whispers...

Not so. I read it in an EU directive...

--
*How about "never"? Is "never" good for you?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/08/2015 12:39, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:38:33 +0100, Syd Rumpo wrote:

But the bodywork steel was only a few atoms thick and the windscreen was
the main structural member which would pop out if you jacked the car up
in the wrong place.

...when urban myths meet chinese whispers...

I was told the windscreen one by an allegro driving colleague who
claimed it had happened to him, but the thin bodywork is something I
have personal experience of, having clipped a parked Allegro with my
Viva. I hardly felt it, and thought I'd driven over a bump or
something. I only stopped because I saw an irate man in the mirror.

The whole of his nearside rear wing was stoved in, and the car could not
be moved. I had a small half-snooker ball sized dent. Even the copper
who did me for due care and attention was astounded.

Cheers
--
Syd

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
Only drivers who follow learner instruction slavishly, or who have
steering with no power assistance on a low ratio rack or box, 'feed the
wheel through their hands' . Its a technique designed so that stupid
noobs never let go of the wheel.


Racing drivers cross their arms over on tight corners.


I got a severe admonishment from the expert accompanying me on a track
day for push-pull steering in a Lotus Elite. The main issue is that
you have a poor sense of what angle your wheels are at with that
procedure.

Normally I keep my hands at around ten to two, making small adjustments with
push-pull (ie keep one hand on the wheel as I turn, the the wheel slide
through the other). For larger movements when manooevring, I may put one
hand at 12 oclock and bring it down to 6 oclock, then continue with the
other hand from 6 to 12 etc. But I very rarely let either hand cross 12
oclock because I find that leads to my arms in danger of getting tangled.
Sometimes (and you can only do this with power steering) I put one palm on
the wheel and crank the wheel round and round as if I was holding a knob on
the wheel - but only at very low speed when manoevring.

In other words, partly as I was taught fro the ordinary and advanced tests,
partly modified for expedience and the need to turn the wheel quickly when
manoevring or when turning out of a side road and need to straighten up
quickly after that.

In article , Adrian
writes
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 12:17:00 +0000, AnthonyL wrote:

In one tropical country I go to the locals insist on filling up at the
garage first thing in the morning to ensure that they get maximum mass
for the delivered volume. The reasoning is that as the day warms up the
density decreases. Any truth in that?

shrug Just about any solid or liquid changes in volume as the
temperature changes.

But fuel is stored underground before sale, so the storage temperature is
going to be fairly consistent.
But LPG generally is not so this did/does apply to autogas.
--
bert

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:
On 2015-08-21, therustyone wrote:


The only time I've noticed a slightly smoother engine (though no
significant improvement in mpg) was when I accidently filled up
with premium diesel instead of standard diesel - and a lot of
that may have been wishful thinking to compensate for paying
through the nose for the "gold plated" fuel :-) I wouldn't have
minded quite so much but I'd driven past loads of garages on my
journey, holding out for the cheapest garage that I happened to
pass, and then when I found a cheap garage I went and used the
premium holster instead of the standard one. Shame they aren't
different colours (eg black versus black with yellow stripes, or
something like that).

might depend on the car's sophistication. A quality engine will
monitor pinking and adjust the timing

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Snip
--
bert

In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , Adrian
writes
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 12:17:00 +0000, AnthonyL wrote:

In one tropical country I go to the locals insist on filling up at the
garage first thing in the morning to ensure that they get maximum mass
for the delivered volume. The reasoning is that as the day warms up
the density decreases. Any truth in that?

shrug Just about any solid or liquid changes in volume as the
temperature changes.

But fuel is stored underground before sale, so the storage temperature is
going to be fairly consistent.
But LPG generally is not so this did/does apply to autogas.

when we were on holiday in Estonia 20 years ago, all the fuel tanks were
above ground. It was obviously a quicj way of constructing filling stations.

--
Please note new email address:

On 2015-08-22, Adrian wrote:

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 01:29:30 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

An expert that I trust says that supermarket fuel isn't as good as
other fuel. He says it's all down to the additives.

It also depends on the quantity of ethanol added - particularly on older
engines.

You won't find any petrol that's less than 5% Ethanol, and - unless
clearly labelled E10 - it cannot be more.

Interesting. In the USA (from what I've seen at least) gas stations
either have "CONTAINS 10% ETHANOL" labels on the pumps (identical
ones, so I assume they're statutory standards) or a big sign bragging
about not including ethanol.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 23/08/15 12:52, AnthonyL wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:11:47 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Anyway, the VdP ADO16 was never anywhere NEAR as amusing as the VdP
1500... The posh Allegro.

The Allegro was amusing just by being an Allegro. Which bozo thought of
having a square ("quartic") steering wheel, given that the whole point of a
steering wheel is that it is circular and rotates about its centre so it
feeds easily through your hands as you turn it. Any "lumps" in the circle
make this very difficult.


Tell that to Lewis Hamilton!

Only drivers who follow learner instruction slavishly, or who have
steering with no power assistance on a low ratio rack or box, 'feed the
wheel through their hands' . Its a technique designed so that stupid
noobs never let go of the wheel.


Racing drivers cross their arms over on tight corners.



I read somewhere that that is now the recommended practice by the
Advanced Motorists bicbw.
--
bert

In article ,
Syd Rumpo wrote:
I was told the windscreen one by an allegro driving colleague who
claimed it had happened to him, but the thin bodywork is something I
have personal experience of, having clipped a parked Allegro with my
Viva. I hardly felt it, and thought I'd driven over a bump or
something. I only stopped because I saw an irate man in the mirror.

You hit a parked car and didn't know it? How come there are so many
driving that shouldn't be allowed to even push a pram around?
But if you hit a parked car it would be with the bumper, so hardly
surprising it does more damage to un unprotected panel.

The whole of his nearside rear wing was stoved in, and the car could not
be moved. I had a small half-snooker ball sized dent. Even the copper
who did me for due care and attention was astounded.

Yes. I'm astounded by the numbers of drivers who shouldn't be driving too.

--
*I have never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:
On 2015-08-21, therustyone wrote:


The only time I've noticed a slightly smoother engine (though no
significant improvement in mpg) was when I accidently filled up
with premium diesel instead of standard diesel - and a lot of
that may have been wishful thinking to compensate for paying
through the nose for the "gold plated" fuel :-) I wouldn't have
minded quite so much but I'd driven past loads of garages on my
journey, holding out for the cheapest garage that I happened to
pass, and then when I found a cheap garage I went and used the
premium holster instead of the standard one. Shame they aren't
different colours (eg black versus black with yellow stripes, or
something like that).

might depend on the car's sophistication. A quality engine will
monitor pinking and adjust the timing

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you
think it runs at all?


Snip


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 24/08/15 14:19, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 23/08/15 12:52, AnthonyL wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:11:47 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Anyway, the VdP ADO16 was never anywhere NEAR as amusing as the VdP
1500... The posh Allegro.

The Allegro was amusing just by being an Allegro. Which bozo thought of
having a square ("quartic") steering wheel, given that the whole
point of a
steering wheel is that it is circular and rotates about its centre
so it
feeds easily through your hands as you turn it. Any "lumps" in the
circle
make this very difficult.


Tell that to Lewis Hamilton!

Only drivers who follow learner instruction slavishly, or who have
steering with no power assistance on a low ratio rack or box, 'feed
the wheel through their hands' . Its a technique designed so that
stupid noobs never let go of the wheel.


Racing drivers cross their arms over on tight corners.



I read somewhere that that is now the recommended practice by the
Advanced Motorists bicbw.

The old feed through the hands is needed when you have a 30 tonnne truck
and no power steering.

They are prerty rare these days.,


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:
On 2015-08-21, therustyone wrote:


The only time I've noticed a slightly smoother engine (though no
significant improvement in mpg) was when I accidently filled up
with premium diesel instead of standard diesel - and a lot of
that may have been wishful thinking to compensate for paying
through the nose for the "gold plated" fuel :-) I wouldn't have
minded quite so much but I'd driven past loads of garages on my
journey, holding out for the cheapest garage that I happened to
pass, and then when I found a cheap garage I went and used the
premium holster instead of the standard one. Shame they aren't
different colours (eg black versus black with yellow stripes, or
something like that).

might depend on the car's sophistication. A quality engine will
monitor pinking and adjust the timing

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you
think it runs at all?

It's called "compresion ignition". The "plug like" things fitted to each
cylinder are "glowplugs" which heat up the cylinders to geta suitable
working temperature. They are NOT spark plugs

--
Please note new email address:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:00:59 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:
On 2015-08-21, therustyone wrote:


The only time I've noticed a slightly smoother engine (though no
significant improvement in mpg) was when I accidently filled up
with premium diesel instead of standard diesel - and a lot of
that may have been wishful thinking to compensate for paying
through the nose for the "gold plated" fuel :-) I wouldn't have
minded quite so much but I'd driven past loads of garages on my
journey, holding out for the cheapest garage that I happened to
pass, and then when I found a cheap garage I went and used the
premium holster instead of the standard one. Shame they aren't
different colours (eg black versus black with yellow stripes, or
something like that).

might depend on the car's sophistication. A quality engine will
monitor pinking and adjust the timing

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do
you think it runs at all?


Snip



Compression of the mixture?

--
Davey.

On 24/08/2015 14:16, bert wrote:

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.



Is it a direct injection engine?

On 24/08/2015 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Syd Rumpo wrote:
I was told the windscreen one by an allegro driving colleague who
claimed it had happened to him, but the thin bodywork is something I
have personal experience of, having clipped a parked Allegro with my
Viva. I hardly felt it, and thought I'd driven over a bump or
something. I only stopped because I saw an irate man in the mirror.

You hit a parked car and didn't know it?

Yes, that's what I wrote.

How come there are so many
driving that shouldn't be allowed to even push a pram around?
But if you hit a parked car it would be with the bumper, so hardly
surprising it does more damage to un unprotected panel.

The bumper wasn't dented.

The whole of his nearside rear wing was stoved in, and the car could not
be moved. I had a small half-snooker ball sized dent. Even the copper
who did me for due care and attention was astounded.

Yes. I'm astounded by the numbers of drivers who shouldn't be driving too.

I'm sure I shouldn't have been - too much, too soon. Mind you, the
roads would be pretty empty if everyone had to achieve your high
standard. It seems unlikely it would be worth building any.

Now **** off, you sanctimonious old ****.

Cheers
--
Syd

In article ,
bert wrote:
Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Think of the generic name. CI. Compression ignition. Unless the fuel is
ignited in some way, the engine doesn't run.

--
*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Syd Rumpo wrote:
How come there are so many
driving that shouldn't be allowed to even push a pram around?
But if you hit a parked car it would be with the bumper, so hardly
surprising it does more damage to un unprotected panel.

The bumper wasn't dented.

That's the idea of a bumper on an old car. It's made out of much thicker
steel than the body. But I wouldn't expect you to know such things.

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 22/08/2015 08:22, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 01:29:30 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

An expert that I trust says that supermarket fuel isn't as good as
other fuel. He says it's all down to the additives.

It also depends on the quantity of ethanol added - particularly on older
engines.

You won't find any petrol that's less than 5% Ethanol, and - unless
clearly labelled E10 - it cannot be more.

I was under the impression that in the UK, the required "biofuel"
content for road transport was achieved by adding 10% FAME (fatty acid
methyl esters, or biodiesel for short) to all diesel fuel, and no
ethanol to petrol. The amount of petrol and diesel used for road
transport is essentially the same, so this gives an average of 5%, which
I think is an EU directive.

On 24/08/15 15:19, Davey wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:00:59 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:
On 2015-08-21, therustyone wrote:


The only time I've noticed a slightly smoother engine (though no
significant improvement in mpg) was when I accidently filled up
with premium diesel instead of standard diesel - and a lot of
that may have been wishful thinking to compensate for paying
through the nose for the "gold plated" fuel :-) I wouldn't have
minded quite so much but I'd driven past loads of garages on my
journey, holding out for the cheapest garage that I happened to
pass, and then when I found a cheap garage I went and used the
premium holster instead of the standard one. Shame they aren't
different colours (eg black versus black with yellow stripes, or
something like that).

might depend on the car's sophistication. A quality engine will
monitor pinking and adjust the timing

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do
you think it runs at all?


Snip



Compression of the mixture?

Its called compression IGNITION!!!

Oddly enough, it doesn't happen until there is fuel in the cylinder


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:17:40 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:

You won't find any petrol that's less than 5% Ethanol, and - unless
clearly labelled E10 - it cannot be more.

Interesting. In the USA (from what I've seen at least) gas stations
either have "CONTAINS 10% ETHANOL" labels on the pumps (identical ones,
so I assume they're statutory standards) or a big sign bragging about
not including ethanol.

US fuel is very different to ours - not just in the octane rating (we use
RON, they use the average of RON and the lower MON - their 89 is about
the same as our 95) - but in the list of stuff they have in. Yep, E10 is
the default over there, but they get all sorts of chemically aggressive
weirdness like oxygenated fuel.

They get E85 widely available, too - as do some European countries,
especially Scandinavia.

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:17:40 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:

You won't find any petrol that's less than 5% Ethanol, and - unless
clearly labelled E10 - it cannot be more.

Interesting. In the USA (from what I've seen at least) gas stations
either have "CONTAINS 10% ETHANOL" labels on the pumps (identical ones,
so I assume they're statutory standards) or a big sign bragging about
not including ethanol.

US fuel is very different to ours - not just in the octane rating (we use
RON, they use the average of RON and the lower MON - their 89 is about
the same as our 95) - but in the list of stuff they have in. Yep, E10 is
the default over there, but they get all sorts of chemically aggressive
weirdness like oxygenated fuel.

They get E85 widely available, too - as do some European countries,
especially Scandinavia.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Racing drivers cross their arms over on tight corners.



I read somewhere that that is now the recommended practice by the
Advanced Motorists bicbw.

The old feed through the hands is needed when you have a 30 tonnne
truck and no power steering.

They are prerty rare these days.,

I drive one handed!

Most field work the other hand is needed for some other task but it has
become a habit on the road. The spare hand is usually near the gear
lever or hand brake. I do worry that a severe pot hole might lead to an
unplanned swerve.



--
Tim Lamb

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:19:35 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:00:59 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:

====snip====

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you
think it runs at all?


Snip



Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated air
where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning
continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting the
spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel is burned
in a jet engine's combustion chamber).

I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine
injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of TDC
at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of the power
stroke, give or take 25% or so.

Unlike a petrol engine, diesels, of necessity, don't throttle the
incoming air supply (other than perhaps under exceptional circumstances)
so at low power demand, less fuel is required to generate the heat
required to cause the working fluid to generate the required working
pressure to drive the piston to generate a similar low level power demand
of its petrol engine counterpart which has to burn more fuel to generate
higher temperatures in order to get the same driving force out of its
throttled charge of fuel *and* air. There's much less 'working fluid' to
absorb the heat energy and convert it to useful work at fractional power
output settings in a petrol engine.

In extremis, when the engines are simply 'ticking over', the power
equivalent diesel engine will burn far less fuel than its petrol engine
counterpart.

--
Johnny B Good

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:55:57 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated
air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air

Indeed. Which is precisely why the timing of the injection is so
important on a diesel.

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:55:57 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated
air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air

Indeed. Which is precisely why the timing of the injection is so
important on a diesel.

but there is no electrical ignition circuit.

--
Please note new email address:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:09:44 +0100, charles wrote:

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated
air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air

Indeed. Which is precisely why the timing of the injection is so
important on a diesel.

but there is no electrical ignition circuit.

Nobody ever said there was.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you
think it runs at all?

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated air
where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning
continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting the
spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel is burned
in a jet engine's combustion chamber).

I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine
injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of TDC
at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of the power
stroke, give or take 25% or so.

Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the
downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by
compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was
that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors?

To the best of my knowledge, diesel engines have "always" (*) used injectors
to define the timing of the ignition.

So to put the issue of timing to bed:

- petrol engines draw fuel-and-air mixture into the cylinder on the
induction stroke and ignite it by a spark which is timed to occur just
before top dead centre; I believe some engines have a second spark during
the power stroke to ignite any unburnt fuel; the fuel-and-air mixture used
to be mixed in a carburettor and the fuel is now injected into the inlet
manifold; they always have a precisely controlled proportion of fuel to air.

- diesel engines draw air into the cylinder, compress it to about 30:1
compression ratio (unlike about 7:1 for petrol) which causes it to heat up
to a temperature at which fuel will ignite on contact; shortly before TDC
the fuel is injected and this injection may continue for part of the power
stroke; they always have an excess of air relative to fuel.

So the spark of the petrol engine and the injection of the fuel of the
diesel engine both determine the "timing" of the engine in the same way.

For both types of engine, the air may be sucked in at atmospheric pressure
(normally-aspirated) or may be blown in at more than atmospheric pressure by
a turbo- or supercharger. Turbo/super chargers fit more than the rated
capacity of air into the cylinder, so allowing more fuel to be injected and
thus giving an increase in the effective capacity of the engine.



(*) Ignoring possible variations in early development engines.

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:43:42 +0100, NY wrote:

- diesel engines draw air into the cylinder, compress it to about 30:1
compression ratio (unlike about 7:1 for petrol)

Higher than that - 10:1 isn't that unusual in a petrol. Hell, even Land
Rovers were using 8:1 in the '60s, unless they were for a country where
petrol was about the potency of a damp fart.

On 23/08/2015 19:24, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 19:09:22 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Some high performance models are mapped for 98 octane - but not many.

IIRC mine is mapped for 99...

Japanese-spec import?

Yup



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 24/08/2015 18:50, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:43:42 +0100, NY wrote:

- diesel engines draw air into the cylinder, compress it to about 30:1
compression ratio (unlike about 7:1 for petrol)

Higher than that - 10:1 isn't that unusual in a petrol. Hell, even Land
Rovers were using 8:1 in the '60s, unless they were for a country where
petrol was about the potency of a damp fart.

And these days, lower than that for a diseasel. High compression
produces NoX in the exhaust, one of the diesel nasties.

In fact Mazda are using 14:1 for both engine types!

Andy

On 22/08/2015 11:00, Huge wrote:
On 2015-08-21, Martin Brown wrote:
On 21/08/2015 13:08, Rod Speed wrote:


"Brian-Gaff" wrote in message
...
I heard a talking head the other day saying that as supermarket fuel
is bought on something called the spot market, it can vary, and is
often quite old and thus its octane value can be depleted.

Perhaps someone can tell me how old fuel loses its octane value?

The more volatile components evaporate off faster.

It isn't just that. Many modern fuel mixes are slightly hygroscopic and

They all contain ethanol which is hygroscopic.

Got a link for that for UK fuels? They are *permitted* to contain 5%,
possibly to be increased soon. Doesn't mean they do.