scribbled...



And 2 of them still exist.

Was thinking about one of them this past weekend with the D day 70
commemorations taking place. For the 50th anniversary event the SS
Jeramiah O'Brien made the Atlantic crossing and visited a couple of UK
Ports before going across to Normandy. It was the only large ship of
the original D Day invasion fleet to return . I had a good look around
it in Southampton. The average age of the crew was about 70 comprised
of veterans who had served on similar ships at the time with a few
younger personnel helping in the background.
Most will no longer be around now.
Another ship was supposed to come across but I cannot recall if it was
the other working Liberty ship John W Brown or the Victory ship which
was a later design which following the weaknesses discoverd by
adapting a British design for mass production which was the Liberty
modified it further to give a stronger and faster ship.
In the end neither made the journey across.

Other bits of Liberty are about ,Greece got the last one available
from the US reserve a few years back to act as a non working museum in
honour of how their merchant fleet expanded using them.
And of course there is still the Richard Montgomery lying in the
Thames Estuary full of corroding munitions to which the authorities
have applied the asbestos solution, if we don't disturb it, it will
probably be ok.


We've still got the SS Richard Montgomery parked off Sheerness...

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 07:15:25 +0100, Jabba wrote:

scribbled...



And 2 of them still exist.

Was thinking about one of them this past weekend with the D day 70
commemorations taking place. For the 50th anniversary event the SS
Jeramiah O'Brien made the Atlantic crossing and visited a couple of UK
Ports before going across to Normandy. It was the only large ship of
the original D Day invasion fleet to return . I had a good look around
it in Southampton. The average age of the crew was about 70 comprised
of veterans who had served on similar ships at the time with a few
younger personnel helping in the background.
Most will no longer be around now.
Another ship was supposed to come across but I cannot recall if it was
the other working Liberty ship John W Brown or the Victory ship which
was a later design which following the weaknesses discoverd by adapting
a British design for mass production which was the Liberty modified it
further to give a stronger and faster ship.
In the end neither made the journey across.

Other bits of Liberty are about ,Greece got the last one available from
the US reserve a few years back to act as a non working museum in
honour of how their merchant fleet expanded using them.
And of course there is still the Richard Montgomery lying in the Thames
Estuary full of corroding munitions to which the authorities have
applied the asbestos solution, if we don't disturb it, it will probably
be ok.


We've still got the SS Richard Montgomery parked off Sheerness...

Um....I think he said that...

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Quite liked the Trislander, that
felt as if it went about 20 yds and then leapt into the sky. Proper
flying, fold down canvas seats, two per seat, everyone with a window,
pilot lines the passengers up on the tarmac and then loads you in to
keep the plane more or less in trim.

Reminds me of the time I had a flight in a Short 330, which had
the feel of being little more than a Leyland National with wings.

Boiled sweets were handed round before take-off and landing,
intended to promote swallowing and hence ease the discomfort on
our ears. Being unpressurised they couldn't gain much height to
get above the weather.

The interior trim panels were covered with sticky-backed plastic,
and, as the plane gained height, little bubbles appeared as it
lifted off the backing. On descent, it all shrank back again.

It amused me that the flight deck was so small that each pilot
had his own sliding door, through which his in-flight cuppa was
duly passed.

Touching on elderly aircraft, there was a time when I had a few
flights between EMA and Glasgow, operated in those days by
Viscount.

The plane(s) had clearly been around - the passenger switch
labels had obviously been bilingual, with the foreign text edited
by angle grinder.

They must originally have been constructed with a small first
class area forward of a pair of toilets. Its size meant that,
even though it was a single class operation, they couldn't really
squeeze in extra seats, so this was the place to head for ample
legroom. Even better were the large windows with a view clear of
the wing.

I would happily never fly again, but these trips did at least
give a good view from a comfortable seat.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 09 Jun 2014, bert ] grunted:

In message , Huge
writes
I used to fly to Copenhagen every Wednesday morning from Heathrow and
more often than not the aircraft in front of us was the morning
Concord flight to Washington. When he opened the taps for takeoff,
everything in our aircraft rattled & on a couple of occasions some of
the overhead lockers fell open. As he accelerated away down the runway
you could see two things, one impressive - into the exhausts of the
engines, the mouth of Hell, one less so - the huge plume of filth the
thing chucked out the back.


Fantastic plane. Flew back from Monaco Grand Prix from Nice - just
before it crashed. Same pilot.

Yep, I went on it once too. Got to sit in seat 1A - the Queen's seat - and
even got a full tour of the cockpit as well...









....would have been even better if we'd been in the air, rather than at
Manchester Airport Aviation Park.

--
David

wrote in
:

On Mon, 9 Jun 2014 11:55:18 +0100, "Robin" wrote:

I guess the guidance system would have been based around well tried
and tested modules - hence valves.

I don't know about valves but we were told it used germanium
transitors.
(The RAF bod seemed not to have cottoned on that would not impress
teenagers whose trannies were in regular use for Radio Caroline.)

And todays Teenagers can see them on the Eurovision Song Contest.

G.Harman


Nowadays it is hard to impress any teenagers as they have little
interest in anything mechanical. They are more impressed by Apple
introduding a new colour for the iPad. They have little concept of the
struggle to make things work.

On 09/06/2014 21:39, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/06/2014 16:27, John Rumm wrote:
One of the most impressive (and in some ways scary) things I ever saw
was a harrier at one of the Southend air shows about 20 years ago. If
did a couple of fly pasts, and then did a third one slower and slower
until finally coming to a "stop" in front of the main crowd. It was
flying at about 50' and hence was below most of the audience standing on
the Westcliff "cliffs". It then did its normal side to side, nodding,
and backwards flying displays. Before finally starting to ascended with
the planes attitude level to start, but slowing rotating toward the nose
up vertical - all the time gaining vertical speed until it is on full
afterburner, flying straight up, until it vanished through the cloud
base. Awesome display of power and control.

Harriers don't have afterburners.

They're still flippin' impressive and rather noisy, though.

On another note...

I was at Farnborough one year. There were two things which particularly
stick: One was that they sat a Tornado on the end of the runway. lit
the afterburner, set the brakes on full, and gave it as much throttle as
they could without it moving. Everyone was watching it, and no-one saw
the other 4 coming the other way down the runway at 0.8...

And Brian Trubshaw, Concorde chief pilot IIRC, brought one empty over
from Heathrow, did a touch and go, then did his damnedest to to a
fighter full-afterburner-vertical-climb. He got quite steep!

Wasn't that the year the Russians tried a similar trick with their SST
and splatted it on the runway?


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article 2,
DerbyBorn wrote:

Nowadays it is hard to impress any teenagers as they have little
interest in anything mechanical. They are more impressed by Apple
introduding a new colour for the iPad. They have little concept of the
struggle to make things work.

My sons school seem to have got this right. Their science teacher (or maybe
DT? Can't remember) seems to have an engineering background and appears to
have contacts within Rolls Royce. He has a collection of things, including
a jet turbine blade from a harrier engine and other similar things.

They then go on trips to places like Duxford and get a custom tour to
see the bits of engineering in real planes etc.

They are also building a race car (different teachers) - Kids had to get
sponsorship from local companies to get the money for the kit, they now
hace the chassis running. Next they need to work out ways of building a
body ready for racing next year.

http://www.greenpower.co.uk/racing/formula24/

I've sent in a few bits of fibre from work (128 core bundles) and that's
now part of the physics work - teaching refraction and total internal
reflection is easier when you've got some real world cable in front of
you (and some lasers to play with :-)). Tying that into the "this is how
your broadband works" and "this fibre to the cab thing you all know about,
here is some fibre" really brings the science into context.

I think it's lack of good teachers that's the main issue, not the lack of
teenagers interest...

Darren

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 07:34:03 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:


(The RAF bod seemed not to have cottoned on that would not impress
teenagers whose trannies were in regular use for Radio Caroline.)

And todays Teenagers can see them on the Eurovision Song Contest.

G.Harman


Nowadays it is hard to impress any teenagers as they have little
interest in anything mechanical. They are more impressed by Apple
introduding a new colour for the iPad. They have little concept of the
struggle to make things work.
Less opportunity to take things apart partly to blame as well as not
so many mechanical things to observe. I can recall being fascinated by
the cogs on my Grans mangle,must have been about 3 years old and was
told "don't put your fingers on those"
An Auto washing machine is a bit boring in comparison .
There is hope though,My Nephew was steadily going along the flow of
the school system Secondary education sixth form college aim for
University without really knowing why. Some years ago I dumped all my
old stuff from our loft on him which included a train set and he got
an unfashionable interest in railways. Joined the junior section of
one of the preserved ones and found that metal work was more
interesting than shoveling coal and was taught by an experienced bloke
to cut, weld use a plasma cutter etc . This stood in him in good stead
when it was decided that hanging in to qualify for university was not
appropriate due to lack of interest so he applied for an engineering
apprenticeship instead.
Got offered a place on his first interview which is quite an
achievement now days. His " Hobby" with an ability to show work done
plus a reference from the railway was invaluable.
The interview was no pushover taking about 5 hours with team building
exercises,making a presentation ,solving problems and exhibiting
examples of ones work.

G.Harman

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 01:52:35 +0100, wrote:

... it rattles differently between the Chinooks and the others.

Chinooks are *very* distinctive and the wop wop wop rather loud. Can
normally hear them, indoors, about 5 mins before they fly past. Other
helos aren't quite so distinctive, but we can identify the Air
Ambulance from anything else but thats probably because we hear/see
it quite often.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Bob Eager scribbled...


Other bits of Liberty are about ,Greece got the last one available from
the US reserve a few years back to act as a non working museum in
honour of how their merchant fleet expanded using them.
And of course there is still the Richard Montgomery lying in the Thames
Estuary full of corroding munitions to which the authorities have
applied the asbestos solution, if we don't disturb it, it will probably
be ok.


We've still got the SS Richard Montgomery parked off Sheerness...

Um....I think he said that...


Opps - didn't scroll all the way down.
Teach me to get up early and play on here half asleep.

wrote in
:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 07:34:03 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:


(The RAF bod seemed not to have cottoned on that would not impress
teenagers whose trannies were in regular use for Radio Caroline.)

And todays Teenagers can see them on the Eurovision Song Contest.

G.Harman


Nowadays it is hard to impress any teenagers as they have little
interest in anything mechanical. They are more impressed by Apple
introduding a new colour for the iPad. They have little concept of the
struggle to make things work.
Less opportunity to take things apart partly to blame as well as not
so many mechanical things to observe. I can recall being fascinated by
the cogs on my Grans mangle,must have been about 3 years old and was
told "don't put your fingers on those"
An Auto washing machine is a bit boring in comparison .
There is hope though,My Nephew was steadily going along the flow of
the school system Secondary education sixth form college aim for
University without really knowing why. Some years ago I dumped all my
old stuff from our loft on him which included a train set and he got
an unfashionable interest in railways. Joined the junior section of
one of the preserved ones and found that metal work was more
interesting than shoveling coal and was taught by an experienced bloke
to cut, weld use a plasma cutter etc . This stood in him in good stead
when it was decided that hanging in to qualify for university was not
appropriate due to lack of interest so he applied for an engineering
apprenticeship instead.
Got offered a place on his first interview which is quite an
achievement now days. His " Hobby" with an ability to show work done
plus a reference from the railway was invaluable.
The interview was no pushover taking about 5 hours with team building
exercises,making a presentation ,solving problems and exhibiting
examples of ones work.

G.Harman



Very encouraging. I too was fascinated by a mangle. Eventually I got
interested in using gears and pulleys on my Meccano set and made a range
of daft devices.
Interviews. Any candidate who can express some enthusiasm for
something practical (rather than Xbox and football) is likely to become
a good trainee.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:40:20 +0100, Jabba wrote:

Bob Eager scribbled...


Other bits of Liberty are about ,Greece got the last one available
from the US reserve a few years back to act as a non working museum
in honour of how their merchant fleet expanded using them.
And of course there is still the Richard Montgomery lying in the
Thames Estuary full of corroding munitions to which the
authorities have applied the asbestos solution, if we don't disturb
it, it will probably be ok.


We've still got the SS Richard Montgomery parked off Sheerness...

Um....I think he said that...


Opps - didn't scroll all the way down.
Teach me to get up early and play on here half asleep.

Depending on who you listen to, we would be affected by the blast...!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:31:27 +0100, Adrian wrote:

Ah yes, Concorde taking off. Follow the line of the runways west from
Heathrow, and just past the M25 you will find the Queen Mother
reservoir, home to Datchet Water Sailing Club. You didn't want to be
sailing on the south end of the pond when Concorde took off, the whole
boat would shake.

Had to go to a house, er, somewhere just under the /approach/ path to
Heathrow. Riding in the noise of the planes, even landing, was almost
unbearable - I'd hate to live there - then Concorde came in. It made the
others seem like background noise - I'm quite happy that I've never heard it
take off!

Another time I was riding down the A329 SE. of Goring. Lot of noise from the
traffic on the wet road and a fast train adjacent to the road. The whole lot
was drowned out by Concorde going over. Must be about 25 miles from
Heathrow; the 'plane didn't look very big, but by 'eck!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 20:42:04 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:


I think that relates to a RB211. The VC10 was its flying testbed.
http://www.vc10.net/History/Individual/XR809.html

Vivid memory of seeing it fly over the suburbs of Nottingham at a time
I was working on the RB211 project.


--
AnthonyL

In message sting.com,
Jabba writes
Tim Streater scribbled...


In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 09/06/2014 09:31, Jabba wrote:
harryagain scribbled...



It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any
carriers
now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Er. We are building new ones.


One may not be built, if it is, it will be mothballed immediately. The
second might be in service in 6 years time. So we would have been
without a carrier for almost 10 years - they're not exactly vital to our
defence are they?

Going back to the Falklands, we had 2 carriers and they were not used
well. The admiral in charge was a prat. I've read a couple of books by
harrier pilots and none have a good word for Woodward. His ****ups put
pressure on the Navy afterwards.

Yup 'Sharkey' Ward's book was not exactly complimentary...

Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.


Instead he lost frigates & destroyers...



That's what they are there for - to die to save the carriers.
--
bert

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 09/06/2014 10:48, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
sting.com, Jabba
wrote:

charles scribbled...

In article , ARW
wrote:
"David P" wrote in message
o.uk...
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:08:21 +0100, ARW wrote:

Today I was working at Finningley the home of this

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/ Awesome - but totally OT.

many years ago I worked in Pontefract and the Vulcan's used to
come in
low over the town using the bus staion as a marker. Then they
puled
the stick back and pushed the throttle hard forward for a near
vertical
climb.

I still get the shivers down my spine just thinking about them -
fabulous planes.

Wasn't their last active flying to the Falklands or have I
misremembered that?
It was one of their missions - and they totally failed in that
one other
than for moral purposes:-(
not quite true. Read the wiki page on "Operation Black Buck"

It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any
carriers now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Well we do have a carrier, but it only carries choppers, no fast jets.
That was the mistake - selling the remaining harriers to the Yanks.

AIUI, there was also some chance that the Argies, having seen that we
could mount a bombing raid from 8000 miles away, became nervous that we
might attack Buenos Ares, and so held some of their fighter-bombers up
north just in case.

The Argies made any number of fatal strategic mistakes - mostly not
fully committing to the engagement, flying some of their best aircraft
to neutral countries so they were impounded etc, rather than lost in
dogfights, and telling their pilots not to engage with the harriers.
(Even if they had lost aircraft at a 5:1 ratio, they could have won
simply by attrition).



And most importantly forgetting to refuse their bombs to low altitude,
until some dickhead of a retired air marshal or something pointed this
out on the good old "we must be neutral" BBC. Whereupon the Argies said
thank you very much and promptly sank the destroyers in San Carlos.
--
bert

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:19:49 +0100, wrote:

The interview was no pushover taking about 5 hours with team building
exercises,making a presentation ,solving problems and exhibiting
examples of ones work.

Bit gruelling but I'd stand a decent chance of doing well in those
sorts of things. The trend a while back of "From your experence give
an example of ...", totaly floors me as I just can't pull things out
of memory like that. There has to be something to remind me of a
*specific* event first *then* I can recall it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 09/06/2014 23:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 09/06/2014 09:31, Jabba wrote:
harryagain scribbled...



It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any
carriers
now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Er. We are building new ones.


One may not be built, if it is, it will be mothballed immediately. The
second might be in service in 6 years time. So we would have been
without a carrier for almost 10 years - they're not exactly vital to
our
defence are they?

Going back to the Falklands, we had 2 carriers and they were not used
well. The admiral in charge was a prat. I've read a couple of
books by
harrier pilots and none have a good word for Woodward. His ****ups put
pressure on the Navy afterwards.

Yup 'Sharkey' Ward's book was not exactly complimentary...

Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.

If you were cautious you would learn the abilities of your air defences
and use them to best advantage... he basically dismissed them even
though they were pivotal to the outcome.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 21:01:35 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

====snip====



Local paper in Wales carried this "cockpit view" test flight ........
worth the watch if you haven't seen it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...filmed-6551556

There seems to be something broken with that page. There's a 'video
sized' chunk of whitespace right where you'd expect the video to be
but no video.

A google search for "amazing-video-wales-filmed-6551556" fails to
find any alternatives with most links leading back to that broken web
page.

Do you know of any alternative sources I might be able to try?
--
J B Good

The trend a while back of "From your experence give
an example of ...", totaly floors me as I just can't pull things out
of memory like that.

ITYM "competency based" recruitment; and if so you have my sympathy. I
had to use it for external recruitment c.10 years ago. Bloody useless
when I needed some very specific skills (plus a professional law or
accountancy qualification) which couldn't be tested that way. Luckily I
managed to finesse the point by screening applicants using written tests
(administered by an external recuitment agency) else I fear HR would
have pushed me to take people who told good anecdotes when I needed Miss
Marple-like bacon-slicer minds. The most shocking thing was that I had
to fight to get objective, written tests accepted as valid for
competency based recruitment.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 15:36:02 +0100, Johny B Good wrote:

Local paper in Wales carried this "cockpit view" test flight ........
worth the watch if you haven't seen it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...g-video-wales-
filmed-6551556

There seems to be something broken with that page. There's a 'video
sized' chunk of whitespace right where you'd expect the video to be but
no video.

A google search for "amazing-video-wales-filmed-6551556" fails to
find any alternatives with most links leading back to that broken web
page.

Do you know of any alternative sources I might be able to try?

Works just fine here.

It's a Flash video served from BrightCove. Ad/Spam/Script blocker of some
kind? Flash working fine elsewhere?

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 21:01:35 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Local paper in Wales carried this "cockpit view" test flight ........
worth the watch if you haven't seen it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...watch-amazing-
video-wales-filmed-6551556

I get pictures but no sound on this clip (Win 7/64 + Chrome 35).

--

TOJ.

On 10/06/2014 15:36, Johny B Good wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 21:01:35 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

====snip====



Local paper in Wales carried this "cockpit view" test flight ........
worth the watch if you haven't seen it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...filmed-6551556

There seems to be something broken with that page. There's a 'video
sized' chunk of whitespace right where you'd expect the video to be
but no video.

A google search for "amazing-video-wales-filmed-6551556" fails to
find any alternatives with most links leading back to that broken web
page.

Do you know of any alternative sources I might be able to try?



Just tried again ... plays fine for me.

Here is link to another coipy of it ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-3084998485001




--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

Bob Eager scribbled...


On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:40:20 +0100, Jabba wrote:

Bob Eager scribbled...


Other bits of Liberty are about ,Greece got the last one available
from the US reserve a few years back to act as a non working museum
in honour of how their merchant fleet expanded using them.
And of course there is still the Richard Montgomery lying in the
Thames Estuary full of corroding munitions to which the
authorities have applied the asbestos solution, if we don't disturb
it, it will probably be ok.


We've still got the SS Richard Montgomery parked off Sheerness...

Um....I think he said that...


Opps - didn't scroll all the way down.
Teach me to get up early and play on here half asleep.

Depending on who you listen to, we would be affected by the blast...!


I wasn't aware there had been an attempt at removing explosives from
another ship in the channel. From Wiki

"...One of the reasons that the explosives have not been removed was the
unfortunate outcome of a similar operation in July 1967 to neutralize
the contents of Kielce, a ship of Polish origin, sunk in 1946 off
Folkestone in the English Channel. During preliminary work Kielce,
containing a comparable amount of ordnance, exploded with force
equivalent to an earthquake measuring 4.5 on the Richter scale, digging
a 20-foot-deep (6 m) crater in the seabed and bringing "panic and
chaos" to Folkestone, although no injuries..."

Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:19:49 +0100, wrote:

The interview was no pushover taking about 5 hours with team building
exercises,making a presentation ,solving problems and exhibiting
examples of ones work.

Bit gruelling but I'd stand a decent chance of doing well in those
sorts of things. The trend a while back of "From your experence give
an example of ...", totaly floors me as I just can't pull things out
of memory like that. There has to be something to remind me of a
*specific* event first *then* I can recall it.



They're the reason why bull****ters get jobs well above their ability.
When they get caught out, they're off to pastures new.

bert scribbled...


In message sting.com,
Jabba writes
Tim Streater scribbled...


In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 09/06/2014 09:31, Jabba wrote:
harryagain scribbled...



It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any
carriers
now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Er. We are building new ones.


One may not be built, if it is, it will be mothballed immediately. The
second might be in service in 6 years time. So we would have been
without a carrier for almost 10 years - they're not exactly vital to our
defence are they?

Going back to the Falklands, we had 2 carriers and they were not used
well. The admiral in charge was a prat. I've read a couple of books by
harrier pilots and none have a good word for Woodward. His ****ups put
pressure on the Navy afterwards.

Yup 'Sharkey' Ward's book was not exactly complimentary...

Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.


Instead he lost frigates & destroyers...



That's what they are there for - to die to save the carriers.


Not when they were being sunk in Falkland Sound, because there was no
CAP (Combat Air Patrol).

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 23:31:00 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 09/06/2014 09:31, Jabba wrote:
harryagain scribbled...



It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any carriers
now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Er. We are building new ones.


One may not be built, if it is, it will be mothballed immediately. The
second might be in service in 6 years time. So we would have been
without a carrier for almost 10 years - they're not exactly vital to our
defence are they?

Going back to the Falklands, we had 2 carriers and they were not used
well. The admiral in charge was a prat. I've read a couple of books by
harrier pilots and none have a good word for Woodward. His ****ups put
pressure on the Navy afterwards.

Yup 'Sharkey' Ward's book was not exactly complimentary...

Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.


Our carriers involved in the Falklands do were very well protected
aand it was down to their anti-missile systems that that took out the
Atlantic Conveyor. The exocet was on its way to one of the carriers
whose anti-missile system went into action and drew the exocet away.
Unfortunately, when the exocet passed through the defence, the next
thing it saw was the Atlantic Conveyor. From that moment its fate was
sealed.

I know this because I was in the RN at the time and privy to a great
deal of info. Later, on leaving the service, I lectured in
anti-missile decoy Tactics and equipment usage.

Old Git scribbled...


Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.


Our carriers involved in the Falklands do were very well protected
aand it was down to their anti-missile systems that that took out the
Atlantic Conveyor. The exocet was on its way to one of the carriers
whose anti-missile system went into action and drew the exocet away.
Unfortunately, when the exocet passed through the defence, the next
thing it saw was the Atlantic Conveyor. From that moment its fate was
sealed.


Bit of a ****er, as many wanted it to hit the copter being driven by HRH
Andrew the Arsehole.



I know this because I was in the RN at the time and privy to a great
deal of info. Later, on leaving the service, I lectured in
anti-missile decoy Tactics and equipment usage.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 16:31:21 +0100, Jabba wrote:

Bob Eager scribbled...


On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:40:20 +0100, Jabba wrote:

Bob Eager scribbled...


Other bits of Liberty are about ,Greece got the last one
available from the US reserve a few years back to act as a non
working museum in honour of how their merchant fleet expanded
using them.
And of course there is still the Richard Montgomery lying in the
Thames Estuary full of corroding munitions to which the
authorities have applied the asbestos solution, if we don't
disturb it, it will probably be ok.


We've still got the SS Richard Montgomery parked off Sheerness...

Um....I think he said that...


Opps - didn't scroll all the way down.
Teach me to get up early and play on here half asleep.

Depending on who you listen to, we would be affected by the blast...!


I wasn't aware there had been an attempt at removing explosives from
another ship in the channel. From Wiki

"...One of the reasons that the explosives have not been removed was the
unfortunate outcome of a similar operation in July 1967 to neutralize
the contents of Kielce, a ship of Polish origin, sunk in 1946 off
Folkestone in the English Channel. During preliminary work Kielce,
containing a comparable amount of ordnance, exploded with force
equivalent to an earthquake measuring 4.5 on the Richter scale, digging
a 20-foot-deep (6 m) crater in the seabed and bringing "panic and chaos"
to Folkestone, although no injuries..."

Neither was I. OTOH, Folkestone managed a real earthquake more recently!

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 10/06/2014 16:03, The Other John wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 21:01:35 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Local paper in Wales carried this "cockpit view" test flight ........
worth the watch if you haven't seen it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...watch-amazing-
video-wales-filmed-6551556

I get pictures but no sound on this clip (Win 7/64 + Chrome 35).


both links play audio & video fine for me (PC W7 64 bit) plays
within Browser (Firefox) fine



--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

On 09/06/2014 23:56, fred wrote:
In article , tony sayer
writes
In article , fred scribeth thus
In article , tony sayer
writes

And valves were much better at standing up to the electromagnetic pulse
released by a nuclear explosion...

Thats why the soviets used then in their aircraft!..

I think that's mainly a puff of chaff, aircraft don't need to be
particularly rad hard as they get blown over and wiped by blast long
before the electronics pop.

Pretty much the same applies in flight.

Suggest you read a bit more about the subject;!...


The hardening specs for aircraft electronics really are far less
demanding than those for other battlefield electronics and it is due to
their relative fragility and likelihood of physical survivability.

The course I was on was quite comprehensive :-)


Being comprehensive doesn't mean correct.

On 10/06/2014 16:31, Jabba wrote:
"...One of the reasons that the explosives have not been removed was the
unfortunate outcome of a similar operation in July 1967 to neutralize
the contents of Kielce, a ship of Polish origin, sunk in 1946 off
Folkestone in the English Channel. During preliminary work Kielce,
containing a comparable amount of ordnance, exploded with force
equivalent to an earthquake measuring 4.5 on the Richter scale, digging
a 20-foot-deep (6 m) crater in the seabed and bringing "panic and
chaos" to Folkestone, although no injuries..."

Another source, rather ironically, seems to have found god:

"Investigations after the incident found a creator measuring 153ft x
63ft x 20ft deep on the seabed with very little of the wreck left.."

http://www.localrags.co.uk/index.php...port-planners/

--
Rod

In message , Old Git
writes
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 23:31:00 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 09/06/2014 09:31, Jabba wrote:
harryagain scribbled...



It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any carriers
now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Er. We are building new ones.


One may not be built, if it is, it will be mothballed immediately. The
second might be in service in 6 years time. So we would have been
without a carrier for almost 10 years - they're not exactly vital to our
defence are they?

Going back to the Falklands, we had 2 carriers and they were not used
well. The admiral in charge was a prat. I've read a couple of books by
harrier pilots and none have a good word for Woodward. His ****ups put
pressure on the Navy afterwards.

Yup 'Sharkey' Ward's book was not exactly complimentary...

Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.


Our carriers involved in the Falklands do were very well protected
aand it was down to their anti-missile systems that that took out the
Atlantic Conveyor. The exocet was on its way to one of the carriers
whose anti-missile system went into action and drew the exocet away.
Unfortunately, when the exocet passed through the defence, the next
thing it saw was the Atlantic Conveyor. From that moment its fate was
sealed.

I know this because I was in the RN at the time and privy to a great
deal of info. Later, on leaving the service, I lectured in
anti-missile decoy Tactics and equipment usage.
I never talk about my knowledge of such things because I signed the
official secrets act - whoops I'm not supposed to tell you that.
--
bert

In message , Tim Streater
writes
In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 09/06/2014 23:31, Tim Streater wrote:

Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.
If you were cautious you would learn the abilities of your air
defences and use them to best advantage... he basically dismissed
them even though they were pivotal to the outcome.

A bit like the captain of the Glorious, then? Wasn't even flying
patrols and so didn't spot the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau before they
saw - and sank - him. But then he was a submariner, AIUI, and so
probably didn't understand what carriers are for.

I read in a book by Johnnie Johnson that they had embarked the RAF
aircraft defending Norway. Have to wonder if they were overcrowded and
unable to get air cover off the deck.


--
Tim Lamb

Robin wrote:

How many tickets?

Thanks for that link - the more so as one of the comments on the page
led to the where they sell flights *in* the Lancaster in Canada (and for
less dosh!)

for not a great deal more then that you could have had a ride in a
Lightning 10 years ago, as i did.
http://www.thundercity.com/pages/499...r-jets/eel.asp

-

On 10/06/2014 20:31 bert wrote:

I signed the official secrets act.

Me too. When I delivered the Christmas post as a temp when I was at college.

--
F

bert scribbled...


I never talk about my knowledge of such things because I signed the
official secrets act - whoops I'm not supposed to tell you that.


It ain't worth the paper it's written on. At some point a well paid
upper class twit will write a book with all the sekrits or get ****ed
and tell everyone what he knows.

Look at all those who worked hard to break the Enigma codes. Never told
a soul, so the government could sell the technology to big business and
read all of their correspondence. No doubt the Russians were too, as
they'd been told how to break into it by their upper class red mates in
MI5/6.

BTW if you've worked in certain jobs it's obvious you've signed the OSA
- as I did years ago. Now the tories are trying to sell off the
department where I worked to the highest bidder, no matter what country
they're from.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:31:36 +0100, bert ] wrote:

In message , Old Git
writes
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 23:31:00 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 09/06/2014 09:31, Jabba wrote:
harryagain scribbled...



It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any carriers
now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Er. We are building new ones.


One may not be built, if it is, it will be mothballed immediately. The
second might be in service in 6 years time. So we would have been
without a carrier for almost 10 years - they're not exactly vital to our
defence are they?

Going back to the Falklands, we had 2 carriers and they were not used
well. The admiral in charge was a prat. I've read a couple of books by
harrier pilots and none have a good word for Woodward. His ****ups put
pressure on the Navy afterwards.

Yup 'Sharkey' Ward's book was not exactly complimentary...

Seems to me he was just cautious. Lose a carrier and it would have been
game over.


Our carriers involved in the Falklands do were very well protected
aand it was down to their anti-missile systems that that took out the
Atlantic Conveyor. The exocet was on its way to one of the carriers
whose anti-missile system went into action and drew the exocet away.
Unfortunately, when the exocet passed through the defence, the next
thing it saw was the Atlantic Conveyor. From that moment its fate was
sealed.

I know this because I was in the RN at the time and privy to a great
deal of info. Later, on leaving the service, I lectured in
anti-missile decoy Tactics and equipment usage.
I never talk about my knowledge of such things because I signed the
official secrets act - whoops I'm not supposed to tell you that.

So did I and this info is widely available but you will notice I gave
no details of the units or equipment. As I noted, I carried out the
lecturing after leaving the RN and to both service personnel and
civilians. I know what is acceptable.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 16:04:26 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

On 10/06/2014 15:36, Johny B Good wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 21:01:35 +0100, Rick Hughes
wrote:

====snip====



Local paper in Wales carried this "cockpit view" test flight ........
worth the watch if you haven't seen it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...filmed-6551556

There seems to be something broken with that page. There's a 'video
sized' chunk of whitespace right where you'd expect the video to be
but no video.

A google search for "amazing-video-wales-filmed-6551556" fails to
find any alternatives with most links leading back to that broken web
page.

Do you know of any alternative sources I might be able to try?



Just tried again ... plays fine for me.

Here is link to another coipy of it ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-3084998485001

That was a little better in that I could see the sample frame and
start button exactly where I'd have expected it to be. However,
aboslutely no response to 'pressing' the play button. :-(

I'm guessing it's a flash video format not supported by my current
version of flash (version 11 afaicr) running on this win2k box. The
clue came from my trying the site with IE6 and getting the Adobe
Flashplayer update is required message.

By copying the title bar text:-

"Cockpit view of ultra low flying RAF jet fighter"

a google search led me to this youtube video:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9SckFoJpEY

Unfortunately, it's only in 240p low resolution which reduces its
impact on the senses.

Having seen it, I'm not going to worry about finding ways to install
the latest flashplayer in win2k. Having just written this, it's just
occurred to me to fire up the testbed install of Mint15 and check it
out there.

Using the default FF browser (haven't gotten round to ditching that
bit of rubbish in favour of Opera just yet), I've been able to play
the video. The youtube one _is_ a low res version (240p) of this one
which appears, at a guess (unable to determine the resolution settings
actually used) to be SD, probably 576 x 704.

Interestingly, the version of Flash seems to be 11.xx.xx so I'm
surprised I couln't get it to play in win2k (perhaps it's the java
that's not up to snuff - there's a sizable chunk of java script
embedded in that 'video' to make it a "Man for all seasons" affair to
cover everything from smart TV playabck to smartphone playback - pity
they didn't consider win2k playback).
--
J B Good

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/06/2014 10:48, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
sting.com, Jabba
wrote:

charles scribbled...

In article , ARW
wrote:
"David P" wrote in message
o.uk...
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:08:21 +0100, ARW wrote:

Today I was working at Finningley the home of this

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/ Awesome - but totally OT.

many years ago I worked in Pontefract and the Vulcan's used to
come in
low over the town using the bus staion as a marker. Then they
puled
the stick back and pushed the throttle hard forward for a near
vertical
climb.

I still get the shivers down my spine just thinking about them -
fabulous planes.

Wasn't their last active flying to the Falklands or have I
misremembered that?
It was one of their missions - and they totally failed in that
one other
than for moral purposes:-(
not quite true. Read the wiki page on "Operation Black Buck"

It cost over a £1million for every bomb that hit the runway, when the
fleet had the same bombs available for their aircraft, which were
several thousand miles closer to the target. The operation was
performed to wind up the RN, in an attempt to prove that aircraft
carriers have no use. Looks like they won as we don't have any
carriers now and all the aircraft the navy used have been scrapped.

Well we do have a carrier, but it only carries choppers, no fast jets.
That was the mistake - selling the remaining harriers to the Yanks.

AIUI, there was also some chance that the Argies, having seen that we
could mount a bombing raid from 8000 miles away, became nervous that we
might attack Buenos Ares, and so held some of their fighter-bombers up
north just in case.

The Argies made any number of fatal strategic mistakes - mostly not fully
committing to the engagement, flying some of their best aircraft to
neutral countries so they were impounded etc, rather than lost in
dogfights, and telling their pilots not to engage with the harriers. (Even
if they had lost aircraft at a 5:1 ratio, they could have won simply by
attrition).

There is always the possibility that the fighters could have been destroyed
on the ground by bombs from the Vulcan bombers:-))))))

Their biggest mistake was in underestimating Mrs T. I am sure that time will
tell that the Belgrano sinking was illegal and she gave the go ahead to sink
it. No ships - no troups, That won the war.


--
Adam