"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"D.M.Chapman" dmc@puffin. wrote in message
...


This article has a new subject. Does your client show it as an entirely
new thread?

As it happens yes it does!
And if I ignore the thread it doesn't ignore all the other threads
either.
Like I said most people don't thread by the header, most people use the
same (or based on the same) reader I am using. Unless you know otherwise.
It works how most users expect it to work and not how some odd person
decided it should work decades ago.

It would be interesting to see how you can justify your claim that most
people use the same newsreader that you use.

The program you use (Windows Live Mail 14) is *not* a standards compliant
program, as the rest of the world understands it, either as an e-mail
program or a newsreader.

Really, just like windows isn't.
No, its just very common.


The version you use is only used by a minute percentage of Usenet users,
and is not based on the same code base as any other newsreader, except
maybe other versions of WLM, which are even worse piles of cr@p, or OE6,
which needed fixing before it was even remotely usable.

And is still used by more people than the others and behave in the same way
(apart from not quoting very well).

On 25/04/2012 21:37, D.M.Chapman wrote:

My (ancient) news reader (strn, I don't expect you to have heard of it)
displays everything by thread index. Nearly all new threads are correctly
identified as new threads. Occasionally someone changes the subject entirely
as you suggest *within* a thread (I've just done it with this post) but
it's rare. Maybe one or two a month in uk.d-i-y.

This article has a new subject. Does your client show it as an entirely
new thread?

Nicely tucked away as a reply to menace, umpteen levels down in the
"Windows 7 32 or 64 bit?" thread here. ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Bob Eager :
On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:02:53 +0100, dennis@home wrote:



"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 24/04/2012 23:43, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message

I don't even need to cater for people that like to thread by
reference rather than subject.
You know how to do either so live with it.

Not causing me a problem old fruit...

So why are you arguing.
Your reader does the same as everyone else's. it threads on title.

Well obviously not...

otherwise each of those name changes would result in a new thread, and
as you can see, they don't:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/9/90/AUsenetThread.png

A different title is a different thread end of story.

You may like it to be the case, but I suggest you go read the RFC and
understand how it actually works.

I don't care how it works, its how the majority use it that matters.

And you appera to be in a majority of one. It's just another way to
wiggle on your part.

This lamentable display demonstrates beyond any shadow of doubt that
Dennis is just a troll. Best ignored.

--
Mike Barnes

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:45:16 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"D.M.Chapman" dmc@puffin. wrote in message
...
In article , dennis@home
wrote:

The thread reference is so you can get your reader to go back and fetch
the
messages should you decide to read them.

No, that the Message-ID: header and the article number.

#256998 and "Message-ID: " in the case
of your post.

Its a throwback to the days of limited bandwidth.

No, that's the Message-ID: header and the article number. They are used
(IIRC, it's been a few years) by the ARTICLE command issued by your
NNTP client.


These days its quicker to just go and fetch all the headers.

All the headers? So everytime you start your client it's downloading
the thousands (tens of?) of headers from the group? I think not...

You think it goes and asks for them individually? You don't think it
uses the date to get new headers?

But you said *all* the headers.

And?
I didn't say it fetches them every time it starts up like you think it needs
to.
What are you a programmer? "Oh we saved a lot of disk space, we threw away
all the data when we closed the process"

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:32:10 +0100, dennis@home wrote:



"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:45:16 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"D.M.Chapman" dmc@puffin. wrote in message
...
In article , dennis@home
wrote:

The thread reference is so you can get your reader to go back and
fetch the
messages should you decide to read them.

No, that the Message-ID: header and the article number.

#256998 and "Message-ID: " in the
case of your post.

Its a throwback to the days of limited bandwidth.

No, that's the Message-ID: header and the article number. They are
used (IIRC, it's been a few years) by the ARTICLE command issued by
your NNTP client.


These days its quicker to just go and fetch all the headers.

All the headers? So everytime you start your client it's downloading
the thousands (tens of?) of headers from the group? I think not...

You think it goes and asks for them individually? You don't think it
uses the date to get new headers?

But you said *all* the headers.

And?
I didn't say it fetches them every time it starts up like you think it
needs to.

You are a master at misunderstanding. Either you do it deliverately, or
you are very, very stupid.

I think it's the latter (stupid, in case you don't understand 'latter').



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...


Sorting by subject is pointless unless searching for a particular message
etc, since it won't cope with threads that change subject in the middle,
as this one has done several times.

What are you talking about?
You are saying the exact opposite of what really happens.
Most users don't care about getting replies to one of your threads in the
order of the thread.
they want it grouped into posts that follow a subject.
There have been lots of such threads in uk.diy.
I really don't know why you want to read these things out of sequence after
a subject has been changed.

We aren't going to agree, so there is no point in continuing.
You do what you want and I will do what I want.
It makes no difference anyway.

FU set.

On 25/04/2012 23:52, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...


Sorting by subject is pointless unless searching for a particular
message etc, since it won't cope with threads that change subject in
the middle, as this one has done several times.

What are you talking about?

Given the huge amount of detail I gave you in the message to which you
replied (and snipped), it should be very clear.

However, lets try this excerpt from RFC 1036 (Standard for Interchange
of USENET Messages)

"2.2.5. References

This field lists the Message-ID's of any messages prompting the
submission of this message. It is required for all follow-up
messages, and forbidden when a new subject is raised.

Implementations should provide a follow-up command, which allows a
user to post a follow-up message. This command should generate a
"Subject" line which is the same as the original message, except
that if the original subject does not begin with "" or "", the
four characters "" are inserted before the subject. If there is
no "References" line on the original header, the "References" line
should contain the Message-ID of the original message (including the
angle brackets). If the original message does have a "References"
line, the follow-up message should have a "References" line
containing the text of the original "References" line, a blank, and
the Message-ID of the original message.

The purpose of the "References" header is to allow messages to be
grouped into conversations by the user interface program. This
allows conversations within a newsgroup to be kept together, and
potentially users might shut off entire conversations without
unsubscribing to a newsgroup. User interfaces need not make use of
this header, but all automatically generated follow-ups should
generate the "References" line for the benefit of systems that do
use it, and manually generated follow-ups (e.g., typed in well after
the original message has been printed by the machine) should be
encouraged to include them as well.

It is permissible to not include the entire previous "References"
line if it is too long. An attempt should be made to include a
reasonable number of backwards references."


You are saying the exact opposite of what really happens.
Most users don't care about getting replies to one of your threads in
the order of the thread.

I find most people tend to follow conversations best when they hear (or
read) all the various contributions to it in the order in which they
actually occurred. Since several concurrent conversations can be going
on at once in different places in the same thread, it makes little sense
to try reading them in the order your machine happens to receive them.

However if this is how you work, it might go some way to explaining the
woeful level of comprehension you demonstrate.

they want it grouped into posts that follow a subject.
There have been lots of such threads in uk.diy.
I really don't know why you want to read these things out of sequence
after a subject has been changed.

Indeed, which is why I don't use software that thinks a change in
subject alone should necessarily denote a whole new thread - especially
when the message still includes references to what was replied to, along
with quotations and attributions from another message which is now
detached from it.

We aren't going to agree, so there is no point in continuing.

That has never seemed to stop you.

You do what you want and I will do what I want.
It makes no difference anyway.

FU set.

That worked well.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

dennis@home wrote:


"D.M.Chapman" dmc@puffin. wrote in message
...


This article has a new subject. Does your client show it as an entirely
new thread?

As it happens yes it does!
And if I ignore the thread it doesn't ignore all the other threads either.
Like I said most people don't thread by the header, most people use the
same (or based on the same) reader I am using.

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 ????

no one but you uses ****e like that.



some odd person
decided it should work decades ago.


that odd person being you presumably


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

dennis@home wrote:
its just very common.


you can say that again.
Not to mention vulgar


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

dennis@home wrote:


Oh look firth is a liar.

I suggest you tow enter a civil partnership then
You are made for each other


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...


Sorting by subject is pointless unless searching for a particular
message etc, since it won't cope with threads that change subject in
the middle, as this one has done several times.

What are you talking about?
You are saying the exact opposite of what really happens.
Most users don't care about getting replies to one of your threads in
the order of the thread.

Oh yes they bloody well do


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

dennis@home wrote:

But you said *all* the headers.

And?
I didn't say it fetches them every time it starts up like you think it needs
to.

Oooh look at dennis wriggle (unsuccessfully) again.

dennis@home wrote:


All the headers? So everytime you start your client it's downloading the
thousands (tens of?) of headers from the group? I think not...

You think it goes and asks for them individually?
You don't think it uses the date to get new headers?

Please enlighten the group by explaining how the NEWNEWS, NEXT, HEAD,
BODY or ARTICLE commands work and in which versions of NNTP HEAD, BODY
or ARTICLE are used other than to retrieve individual articles. While
you are at it, explain in which version of NNTP the argument to HEAD is
a date or a range of dates.

In short, dennis, you are talking crap, again but providing wonderful
proof that you know 10% of **** all about how news works.


Here's typical access to an article via NNTP.


201 UCB-VAX netnews server ready -- no posting allowed

GROUP msgs
211 103 402 504 msgs Your new group is msgs

ARTICLE 401
423 No such article in this newsgroup

ARTICLE 402
220 402 Article retrieved, text follows
(article header and body follow)
..

HEAD 403
221 403 Article retrieved, header follows
(article header follows)
..

QUIT
205 UCB-VAX news server closing connection. Goodbye.

So, dennis, where in that sequence are articles headers retrieved by
date? Indeed where is there any use made of the date in that process?

Where were articles downloaded in a batch, did you notice that every
article was requested individually?

That's two clear statements that you have made, both of them wrong. Are
you likely to admit that you were wrong? Prace bets now!

Huge wrote:
On 25/04/2012 19:13, dennis@home wrote:

Meanwhile, Apple and M$ actually try to find out what users do and make
the tools work for them.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha[gasp]hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

****.

I agree with Huge and I are an Apple fan bhoi.

On 26/04/2012 07:47, Steve Firth wrote:
wrote:


All the headers? So everytime you start your client it's downloading the
thousands (tens of?) of headers from the group? I think not...

You think it goes and asks for them individually?
You don't think it uses the date to get new headers?

Please enlighten the group by explaining how the NEWNEWS, NEXT, HEAD,
BODY or ARTICLE commands work and in which versions of NNTP HEAD, BODY
or ARTICLE are used other than to retrieve individual articles. While
you are at it, explain in which version of NNTP the argument to HEAD is
a date or a range of dates.

In short, dennis, you are talking crap, again but providing wonderful
proof that you know 10% of **** all about how news works.


Here's typical access to an article via NNTP.


201 UCB-VAX netnews server ready -- no posting allowed

GROUP msgs
211 103 402 504 msgs Your new group is msgs

ARTICLE 401
423 No such article in this newsgroup

ARTICLE 402
220 Article retrieved, text follows
(article header and body follow)
.

HEAD 403
221 Article retrieved, header follows
(article header follows)
.

QUIT
205 UCB-VAX news server closing connection. Goodbye.

So, dennis, where in that sequence are articles headers retrieved by
date? Indeed where is there any use made of the date in that process?

Where were articles downloaded in a batch, did you notice that every
article was requested individually?

That's two clear statements that you have made, both of them wrong. Are
you likely to admit that you were wrong? Prace bets now!


There will be a wiggle where he points out that date "obviously" does
not mean date as we understand it but was referring to something else!

(either that or he will lob another rattle out the pram and claim he is
lobotomising the thread this time (since killing was obviously beyond him).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
[snip]

There will be a wiggle where he points out that date "obviously" does not
mean date as we understand it but was referring to something else!

(either that or he will lob another rattle out the pram and claim he is
lobotomising the thread this time (since killing was obviously beyond him).

I'm amused by his claim that "killing" means to remove a thread completely
from "the Internet" as his wriggle for why adding a rule to a kill file
does not kill a thread. So, logically, when he claimed to have "killed" a
thread he was claiming to have removed every copy of every post made to
that thread from the whole of the Internet.

Dennis has super cow powers!

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

8

Implementations should provide a follow-up command, which allows a
user to post a follow-up message. This command should generate a
"Subject" line which is the same as the original message, except
that if the original subject does not begin with "" or "", the
four characters "" are inserted before the subject. If there is
no "References" line on the original header, the "References" line
should contain the Message-ID of the original message (including the
angle brackets). If the original message does have a "References"
line, the follow-up message should have a "References" line
containing the text of the original "References" line, a blank, and
the Message-ID of the original message.


What does "should" mean? Is like all the others that have "must" where an
item is mandatory and "should" isn't?
Don't bother to answer BTW.

8

FU set.

That worked well.

So *you* want to waste time continuing this debate.

FU set again

On 26/04/2012 16:52, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

8

Implementations should provide a follow-up command, which allows a
user to post a follow-up message. This command should generate a
"Subject" line which is the same as the original message, except
that if the original subject does not begin with "" or "", the
four characters "" are inserted before the subject. If there is
no "References" line on the original header, the "References" line
should contain the Message-ID of the original message (including the
angle brackets). If the original message does have a "References"
line, the follow-up message should have a "References" line
containing the text of the original "References" line, a blank, and
the Message-ID of the original message.


What does "should" mean?

What is this, pre-school?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/should?s=t


Is like all the others that have "must" where
an item is mandatory and "should" isn't?

wiggle wiggle...

(BTW even the crap software you use manages all of this - its the
display side where it gets confused)

Don't bother to answer BTW.

8

FU set.

That worked well.

So *you* want to waste time continuing this debate.

FU set again

Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a valid
top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.
Its also in the groups list, would you like me to post the list?

It also does exactly as I want.

FU set again, can't you take the hint?

In message , John
Rumm writes
So, dennis, where in that sequence are articles headers retrieved by
date? Indeed where is there any use made of the date in that process?

Where were articles downloaded in a batch, did you notice that every
article was requested individually?

That's two clear statements that you have made, both of them wrong. Are
you likely to admit that you were wrong? Prace bets now!


There will be a wiggle where he points out that date "obviously" does
not mean date as we understand it but was referring to something else!


You don't think that denboi is related to rupert murdoch, do you?


--
geoff

dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.
Its also in the groups list, would you like me to post the list?

It also does exactly as I want.

FU set again, can't you take the hint?

You set the follow-up to a non-existent group. Again. Obviously you
don't know how to ROT13, as the full and correct name of the group to
end a sub-thread has been posted. When you set FU to an invalid group,
the news server will look through the headers and post to the last live
group it finds in the thread.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 26/04/2012 19:10, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

Its also in the groups list, would you like me to post the list?

No, its ok I can get my own.

It also does exactly as I want.

What's that then?

FU set again, can't you take the hint?

I get the hint, that you may have finally run out of wiggle room, and
now wish a hole would open up and swallow you...

Not bad - only took 11 days since your first stab at scoring points
while getting the wrong end of the stick.

BTW, if you want to end the conversation, just stop replying.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 26/04/2012 19:10, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

Its also in the groups list, would you like me to post the list?

No, its ok I can get my own.

It also does exactly as I want.

What's that then?

FU set again, can't you take the hint?

I get the hint, that you may have finally run out of wiggle room, and
now wish a hole would open up and swallow you...

Not bad - only took 11 days since your first stab at scoring points
while getting the wrong end of the stick.

BTW, if you want to end the conversation, just stop replying.

Spoilsport, I'm only halfway down this tub of popcorn, and Dennis is
cheaper than renting a movie.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Steve Firth wrote
Huge wrote
On 25/04/2012 19:13, dennis@home wrote

Meanwhile, Apple and M$ actually try to find
out what users do and make the tools work for them.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha[gasp]hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

****.

Wota stunning line in rational argument.

I agree with Huge and I are an Apple fan bhoi.

More fool you with the touch interface seen with the iphone and ipad alone.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 26/04/2012 19:10, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

Its also in the groups list, would you like me to post the list?

No, its ok I can get my own.

It also does exactly as I want.

What's that then?

FU set again, can't you take the hint?

I get the hint, that you may have finally run out of wiggle room, and now
wish a hole would open up and swallow you...

Its not I that needs to go into a hole and be swallowed although that has
given me ideas for later.


Not bad - only took 11 days since your first stab at scoring points while
getting the wrong end of the stick.

Try harder, I don't need to score points against you or anyone else here.
However it appears you do even if its by being a pedant.


BTW, if you want to end the conversation, just stop replying.

Why don't you or do you just want the last word?

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:10:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote:



"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

No, it doesn't. You can't even copy the name correctly.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:10:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)
You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

No, it doesn't. You can't even copy the name correctly.



Be fair, it *was* ROTted. :-)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 26/04/2012 20:12, John Williamson wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 26/04/2012 19:10, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

Its also in the groups list, would you like me to post the list?

No, its ok I can get my own.

It also does exactly as I want.

What's that then?

FU set again, can't you take the hint?

I get the hint, that you may have finally run out of wiggle room, and
now wish a hole would open up and swallow you...

Not bad - only took 11 days since your first stab at scoring points
while getting the wrong end of the stick.

BTW, if you want to end the conversation, just stop replying.

Spoilsport, I'm only halfway down this tub of popcorn, and Dennis is
cheaper than renting a movie.

Yeah but, I am not into rent boys, and even if I was going to start, I
think I could do better!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/04/2012 21:42, John Williamson wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:10:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)
You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

No, it doesn't. You can't even copy the name correctly.



Be fair, it *was* ROTted. :-)

Next time, make it harder, used double ROT13 ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:10:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote:



"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)

You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

No, it doesn't.

Well lets put it this way..
yes it does.

You need a better reader, pan was never very good even for the users that
know how to use it.

You can't even copy the name correctly.

albasani has alt.dev.null and dev.null
datemas has alt.dev.null
astraweb has neither

looks like geof and firth will have to call you a liar.

Maybe Usenet isn't quite as perfect as you appear to think it is.
its not surprising to me as the RFC is vague and some readers implement
things in different ways, servers implement things is different ways, even
the same server code can have different configurations. What does surprise
me is how well it does hold together, but it does still fall apart quite
easily.

John Rumm wrote:
On 26/04/2012 21:42, John Williamson wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:10:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)
You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

No, it doesn't. You can't even copy the name correctly.



Be fair, it *was* ROTted. :-)

Next time, make it harder, used double ROT13 ;-)

Task you should know from the DES experience that when DES was found to be
weak a stab at 2DES was taken without much improvement. It was therefore
necessary to adopt 3DES. Hence 3ROT13 must be the best algorithm.

On 27/04/2012 17:56, Steve Firth wrote:
John wrote:
On 26/04/2012 21:42, John Williamson wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:10:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote:


"John wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)
You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

No, it doesn't. You can't even copy the name correctly.



Be fair, it *was* ROTted. :-)

Next time, make it harder, used double ROT13 ;-)

Task you should know from the DES experience that when DES was found to be
weak a stab at 2DES was taken without much improvement. It was therefore
necessary to adopt 3DES. Hence 3ROT13 must be the best algorithm.

it was always rumoured that the NSA watered down the original proposed
standard for DES from 64 to 56 bits...

ROT13 is as strong as it was designed to be in the first place ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/04/2012 10:00, Huge wrote:
On 2012-04-27, John wrote:
On 27/04/2012 17:56, Steve Firth wrote:
John wrote:
On 26/04/2012 21:42, John Williamson wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:10:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote:


"John wrote in message
o.uk...


Lol, to a non existent group *again!*

(Incoming clue by 4: there is no group called dev.null, dev is not a
valid top level organisation)
You need a better provider, it exists here or it would complain of an
unresolved group.

No, it doesn't. You can't even copy the name correctly.



Be fair, it *was* ROTted. :-)

Next time, make it harder, used double ROT13 ;-)

Task you should know from the DES experience that when DES was found to be
weak a stab at 2DES was taken without much improvement. It was therefore
necessary to adopt 3DES. Hence 3ROT13 must be the best algorithm.

it was always rumoured that the NSA watered down the original proposed
standard for DES from 64 to 56 bits...

IIRC, it has recently been shown that the changes to DES suggested by
the NSA actually made it stronger.

Yeah, the NSA did a press release to that effect. Its still a little
confusing since they supposedly strengthened the so called S boxes, but
were relatively silent about why they lobbied for a reduction in key
length.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/