On 22/03/2012 10:32, MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:05:51 +0000, wrote:

On 21/03/2012 19:40, MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:59:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Its a no brainer to use the microwave for free.

And then heat up your evening meal in the same microwave?

Someone pick me up off the floor, please, as I appear to be rolling
around laughing my arse off!



what, about 'the plastic never even gets hot' did you NOT understand and
the 'it doesn't create any fumes or smell'

Dickhead.

Cant admio you are plain wrong can you?

I use the right tool for the job, and microwave ovens ain't that!


But do they do the job? Even quickly and efficiently?

Not compared to a dedicated shredder, no.

MM

Why would I need a dedicated shredder? They cost money and take up space
when there's an alternative.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Then if the microwaves aren't absorbed, they bounce around and come back to the magnetron where they're absorbed
by the ballast or whatever it's called.

Not clear what you mean there.

As I understand it, there is a hole at the side of the oven cavity.
Behind that hole is a magnetron that produces microwaves,

Yes.

and next to it something to absorb any microwaves which happen to bounce back in there, so they don't damage the
magnetron. There's some kind of T shaped thing between them to direct the microwaves the right way.

I dont believe there is now.

Now if the ballast can't absorb all the power the magnetron can produce (which would happen if there is no water in
the oven to absorb any), then something will catch fire.

So it makes much more sense to measure what gets reflected
and cut back what the magnetron is producing instead.

And thats the way its done.

And it doesnt cost much to do that.

I thought there was always some reflection

Yes, thats why you MEASURE what gets reflected.

(the waves that happened to hit the hole before the food), and magnetrons hated even the smallest amount coming back.

No, that last isnt right.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote He knows less microwave theory than you do, so there ya go.

I know more than you do, thanks.

I am sure you do, about aboriginal girls and outback bars and
dunnies, but we are talking about microwaves.

Rule 3, don't annoy the abbos.

We have goons with guns that deal with any that get too uppity.

They are called boongs because thats the noise they make
when they bounce off the roo bars on the front of the 4WD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullbar

We dont bother with those wimpy landrovers anymore.

Try a http://youtu.be/cDoRmT0iRic

No thanks, more wimpy ****.

Try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sACse...ture=endscreen

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 18:09:55 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote



Not clear what you mean there.

As I understand it, there is a hole at the side of the oven cavity.
Behind that hole is a magnetron that produces microwaves,

Yes.

and next to it something to absorb any microwaves which happen to bounce back in there, so they don't damage the
magnetron. There's some kind of T shaped thing between them to direct the microwaves the right way.

I dont believe there is now.

Now if the ballast can't absorb all the power the magnetron can produce (which would happen if there is no water in
the oven to absorb any), then something will catch fire.

So it makes much more sense to measure what gets reflected
and cut back what the magnetron is producing instead.

And thats the way its done.

And it doesnt cost much to do that.

I thought there was always some reflection

Yes, thats why you MEASURE what gets reflected.

(the waves that happened to hit the hole before the food), and magnetrons hated even the smallest amount coming back.

No, that last isnt right.

I suppose a test could be done..... measure the power the microwave oven consumes from the mains with different things in it.

In fact..... [pulls energy meter out of cupboard]

And the results for a £20 Tesco cheapy microwave a

Nothing: 1135 watts
A mug with a tiny bit of water in it: 1165 watts
A mug full of water: 1185 watts

Very odd. There is only a SLIGHT reduction in power consumption the less stuff there is in the oven.

So it appears it's not reducing the magnetron power, and when it's empty, all the power is going somewhere, presumably as heat in the workings of it, which can't be good - perhaps eventually it would overheat and cut out. Or break.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

I think car alarms should be set of explode after two minutes.
That way, we either take out a car thief, or deprive a noise-polluting jerk of his wheels.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 18:17:28 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote:




I am sure you do, about aboriginal girls and outback bars and
dunnies, but we are talking about microwaves.

Rule 3, don't annoy the abbos.

We have goons with guns that deal with any that get too uppity.

They are called boongs because thats the noise they make
when they bounce off the roo bars on the front of the 4WD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullbar

We dont bother with those wimpy landrovers anymore.

Try a http://youtu.be/cDoRmT0iRic

No thanks, more wimpy ****.

Try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sACse...ture=endscreen

I'd like one of those to run down the parking attendants in Edinburgh.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Tip of the day: Do not fart in the bath while you have the runs.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Not clear what you mean there.

As I understand it, there is a hole at the side of the oven cavity. Behind that hole is a magnetron that produces
microwaves,

Yes.

and next to it something to absorb any microwaves which happen to
bounce back in there, so they don't damage the magnetron. There's some kind of T shaped thing between them to
direct the
microwaves the right way.

I dont believe there is now.

Now if the ballast can't absorb all the power the magnetron can produce (which would happen if there is no water
in the oven to absorb any), then something will catch fire.

So it makes much more sense to measure what gets reflected
and cut back what the magnetron is producing instead.

And thats the way its done.

And it doesnt cost much to do that.

I thought there was always some reflection

Yes, thats why you MEASURE what gets reflected.

(the waves that happened to hit the hole before the food), and
magnetrons hated even the smallest amount coming back.

No, that last isnt right.

I suppose a test could be done..... measure the power the microwave
oven consumes from the mains with different things in it.

In fact..... [pulls energy meter out of cupboard]

And the results for a £20 Tesco cheapy microwave a

Nothing: 1135 watts
A mug with a tiny bit of water in it: 1165 watts
A mug full of water: 1185 watts

Very odd. There is only a SLIGHT reduction in power consumption the less stuff there is in the oven.

So it appears it's not reducing the magnetron power,

It clearly is when its empty.

and when it's empty, all the power is going somewhere, presumably as heat in the workings of it, which can't be good

It clearly works fine.

- perhaps eventually it would overheat and cut out. Or break.

The modern branded ones dont break.

Since all the modern branded ones have mulitiple power levels
selectable, presumably they just reduce the power level as required.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:59:28 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote






Yes.



I dont believe there is now.



So it makes much more sense to measure what gets reflected
and cut back what the magnetron is producing instead.

And thats the way its done.

And it doesnt cost much to do that.

I thought there was always some reflection

Yes, thats why you MEASURE what gets reflected.

(the waves that happened to hit the hole before the food), and
magnetrons hated even the smallest amount coming back.

No, that last isnt right.

I suppose a test could be done..... measure the power the microwave
oven consumes from the mains with different things in it.

In fact..... [pulls energy meter out of cupboard]

And the results for a £20 Tesco cheapy microwave a

Nothing: 1135 watts
A mug with a tiny bit of water in it: 1165 watts
A mug full of water: 1185 watts

Very odd. There is only a SLIGHT reduction in power consumption the less stuff there is in the oven.

So it appears it's not reducing the magnetron power,

It clearly is when its empty.

What???? It's a 700 watt output. Looking at the SMALL changes in input power, it's quite obviously not reducing it by much at all. Probably just happens naturally due to it getting too warm or something.

and when it's empty, all the power is going somewhere, presumably as heat in the workings of it, which can't be good

It clearly works fine.

I only operated it empty for 5 seconds.

- perhaps eventually it would overheat and cut out. Or break.

The modern branded ones dont break.

Try yours empty for 1 hour and report back.

Since all the modern branded ones have mulitiple power levels
selectable, presumably they just reduce the power level as required.

Maybe's aye, maybe's naw.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Isn't Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse?

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Yes.

I dont believe there is now.

So it makes much more sense to measure what gets reflected
and cut back what the magnetron is producing instead.

And thats the way its done.

And it doesnt cost much to do that.

I thought there was always some reflection

Yes, thats why you MEASURE what gets reflected.

(the waves that happened to hit the hole before the food), and
magnetrons hated even the smallest amount coming back.

No, that last isnt right.

I suppose a test could be done..... measure the power the microwave
oven consumes from the mains with different things in it.

In fact..... [pulls energy meter out of cupboard]

And the results for a £20 Tesco cheapy microwave a

Nothing: 1135 watts
A mug with a tiny bit of water in it: 1165 watts
A mug full of water: 1185 watts

Very odd. There is only a SLIGHT reduction in power consumption the less stuff there is in the oven.

So it appears it's not reducing the magnetron power,

It clearly is when its empty.

What????

There is a reductiion in the power when its empty.

It's a 700 watt output. Looking at the SMALL changes in
input power, it's quite obviously not reducing it by much at all.

Clearly that isnt doing the magnetron any harm.

Probably just happens naturally due to it getting too warm or something.

I doubt it, that wouldnt work to well when there is something you want to heat in the oven.

and when it's empty, all the power is going somewhere, presumably as heat in the workings of it, which can't be good

It clearly works fine.

I only operated it empty for 5 seconds.

And plenty have done for longer than that before they notice that they forgot to put
whatever it was they planned to heat in the oven and didnt end up with a dead oven.

Mine doesnt even say not to do that, so clearly the design allows for that.

- perhaps eventually it would overheat and cut out. Or break.

The modern branded ones dont break.

Try yours empty for 1 hour and report back.

Yours is cheaper than mine, you try it.

Since all the modern branded ones have mulitiple power levels
selectable, presumably they just reduce the power level as required.

Maybe's aye, maybe's naw.

Certainly they all have multiple power levels and for defrost etc too.

So if the oven decides that there is a problem because some dummy
forgot to put anything in the oven, they can just turn the magnetron off etc.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 21:18:55 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote














Yes, thats why you MEASURE what gets reflected.



No, that last isnt right.

I suppose a test could be done..... measure the power the microwave
oven consumes from the mains with different things in it.

In fact..... [pulls energy meter out of cupboard]

And the results for a £20 Tesco cheapy microwave a

Nothing: 1135 watts
A mug with a tiny bit of water in it: 1165 watts
A mug full of water: 1185 watts

Very odd. There is only a SLIGHT reduction in power consumption the less stuff there is in the oven.

So it appears it's not reducing the magnetron power,

It clearly is when its empty.

What????

There is a reductiion in the power when its empty.

There is negligible reduction. I'd have expected the input power to halve at least.

It's a 700 watt output. Looking at the SMALL changes in
input power, it's quite obviously not reducing it by much at all.

Clearly that isnt doing the magnetron any harm.

How do you know?

Probably just happens naturally due to it getting too warm or something.

I doubt it, that wouldnt work to well when there is something you want to heat in the oven.

I meant the magnetron is getting very warm due to microwaves coming back.. This doesn't happen when food is in the oven.

- perhaps eventually it would overheat and cut out. Or break.

The modern branded ones dont break.

Try yours empty for 1 hour and report back.

Yours is cheaper than mine, you try it.

It would appear you are not so sure.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Some "chinese english" instructions for an automatic light switch, needless to say I did not attempt to follow them during the installation....

The surface design is facility, comely but not losing generosity, it will not have accidented feeling after installation.
Wide working voltage: you will not be worried when you go all over Europe carrying it.
You could fix the sensor with two screws on the junction box in circular one, also fix it with special installation shelf.
In a word, whether the junction box installation orientation is true, it makes the installation flatly.
The lamp will be on automatically when you knock at the door or say "I am coming back".
It will make your home warmer and more romantic.
Penetrate the setscrew into installation hole, block on radiator to aim at the installation hole on connection box.
Let electrician or experienced human install it.
The unrest objects can't be regarded as the installation basis-face.
Don't open the case for your safety if you find the hitch after installation.
If there is any difference between instruction and products, please give priority to product, sorry not to inform you again.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Yes, thats why you MEASURE what gets reflected.

No, that last isnt right.

I suppose a test could be done..... measure the power the
microwave oven consumes from the mains with different things in it.

In fact..... [pulls energy meter out of cupboard]

And the results for a £20 Tesco cheapy microwave a

Nothing: 1135 watts
A mug with a tiny bit of water in it: 1165 watts
A mug full of water: 1185 watts

Very odd. There is only a SLIGHT reduction in power consumption the less stuff there is in the oven.

So it appears it's not reducing the magnetron power,

It clearly is when its empty.

What????

There is a reductiion in the power when its empty.

There is negligible reduction. I'd have expected the input power to halve at least.

Thats because you dont understand how they work.

It's a 700 watt output. Looking at the SMALL changes in
input power, it's quite obviously not reducing it by much at all.

Clearly that isnt doing the magnetron any harm.

How do you know?

Even you should be able to check that it does still heat the food.

Probably just happens naturally due to it getting too warm or something.

I doubt it, that wouldnt work to well when there is something you want to heat in the oven.

I meant the magnetron is getting very warm due to microwaves coming back. This doesn't happen when food is in the
oven.

- perhaps eventually it would overheat and cut out. Or break.

The modern branded ones dont break.

Try yours empty for 1 hour and report back.

Yours is cheaper than mine, you try it.

It would appear you are not so sure.

Cant be bothered basically. I've got to go out and do the farmers market run soon.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 21:38:38 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
It clearly is when its empty.

What????

There is a reductiion in the power when its empty.

There is negligible reduction. I'd have expected the input power to halve at least.

Thats because you dont understand how they work.

If x watts goes in, it goes to heat somewhere.

It's a 700 watt output. Looking at the SMALL changes in
input power, it's quite obviously not reducing it by much at all.

Clearly that isnt doing the magnetron any harm.

How do you know?

Even you should be able to check that it does still heat the food.

I have only run it empty for 5 seconds.

The modern branded ones dont break.

Try yours empty for 1 hour and report back.

Yours is cheaper than mine, you try it.

It would appear you are not so sure.

Cant be bothered basically. I've got to go out and do the farmers market run soon.

Excuses excuses.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

The evening news is where they begin with "Good evening", and then proceed to tell you why it isn't.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 00:52:23 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote






Nope. Just use it for international transactions, much
more convenient than bank stuff internationally.

It's the international post that sux.

Works fine here, just slower than it once was for some reason.

I used to get stuff from HongKong as fast as from Sydney at times, dont anymore.

50% of stuff I buy from HongKong disappears.

I've never had anything disappear and I likely buy more than you do from there.

Your closer.

I've always got refunded by the sender though.

Thats suspicious. Bet they arent even sending it and
are profitting from those who dont demand a refund.

That's possible. What usually happens is I ask them why it's late, they say wait a bit, then after a certain time if it hasn't arrived they give a refund.

I dont normally deal with anyone unless they have
very little bad feedback, specially in china. And they
have to have thiousands of good feedback too.

Same here. It's usually the really cheap things (up to 5 quid) that disappear. And usually when they're using the economy post (the one that's about a fufth of the price my post office would charge to send it back).

I dont plan to post the Haulpak, our local PO wont take anything heavier than 20Kg for H&S reasons.

I use a courier for anything over 2kg, as it's cheaper

It isnt here. And most of the stuff I have bought lately has been free shipping.

There are about 20 couriers available her all competing with each other.

and they don't mind large and heavy objects.

Yeah, I have had some pretty heavy stuff, particularly
the big glass widescreen TV. Takes 2 to move it.

My neighbour's sister had a huge bookshelf delivered (about 14 feet wide) and there was no tail-lift in the van, and only one driver. She had to re-arrange delivery and get my neighbour and me to go over there.

They also have decent vans that can actually fit big stuff like skis in.

Ours all have the same sized vans that handle all that stuff fine.

Most Royal Mail vans are small, designed for lightweight packet and letters.

The guy at my post office said health and safety to me once, I poked fun at him and called him a wimp.

And thats why half your stuff never shows up.

They can nick it if they like, Royal Mail foot the bill for the lost stuff.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

TV takes over your life when you could be doing useful things like smoking crack and stealing car stereos.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 03:12:40 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

50% of stuff I buy from HongKong disappears.

I've never had anything disappear and I likely buy more than you do from
there.

Do bear in mind that "Lieutenant Scott/Peter Hucker" is a noted Usenet
liar and troll.

Oh dear, Mr Firth is upset again. Let's all give him some moral support, then again, **** it.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

The world's largest fruit are giant pumpkins. The world record is 1061lbs (481.3 kg).

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Oh dear, Mr Firth is upset again.

This Mr Firth is rarely upset. He does however like laughing at
two-faced knuckle draggers, to which pack you belong.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:24:21 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Oh dear, Mr Firth is upset again.

This Mr Firth is rarely upset. He does however like laughing at
two-faced knuckle draggers, to which pack you belong.

If it keeps you happy, please continue you delusions.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

My childbirth instructor says it's not pain I'll feel during labour, but pressure. Is she right?
Yes, in the same way that a tornado might be called an air current.

"geoff" wrote in message
...


The nurburgring awaits, you snivelling coward

You didn't turn up and I am not giving you a second chance.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Nope. Just use it for international transactions, much
more convenient than bank stuff internationally.

It's the international post that sux.

Works fine here, just slower than it once was for some reason.

I used to get stuff from HongKong as fast as from Sydney at times, dont anymore.

50% of stuff I buy from HongKong disappears.

I've never had anything disappear and I likely buy more than you do from there.

Your closer.

I doubt the distance makes any difference given that the plane doesnt stop in transit.

I've always got refunded by the sender though.

Thats suspicious. Bet they arent even sending it and
are profitting from those who dont demand a refund.

That's possible. What usually happens is I ask them why it's late, they say wait a bit, then after a certain time if
it hasn't arrived they give a refund.

Dunno what the story is with their postal insurance
system, or even if they normally use one or not either.

My mate who has just returned from working there for years might know.

I dont normally deal with anyone unless they have
very little bad feedback, specially in china. And they
have to have thiousands of good feedback too.

Same here. It's usually the really cheap things (up to 5 quid) that disappear.

Like I say, none of mine have.

And usually when they're using the economy post (the one that's about a fufth of the price my post office would
charge to send it back).

Yeah, their postal charges are very cheap. Corse so is the stuff sold at retail too.

I dont plan to post the Haulpak, our local PO wont take anything heavier than 20Kg for H&S reasons.

I use a courier for anything over 2kg, as it's cheaper

It isnt here. And most of the stuff I have bought lately has been free shipping.

There are about 20 couriers available her all competing with each other.

Same here. The post office is one of them and they do a hell of a percentage of the total volume.

Fancy tracking system too, you can watch it move around on the way
and see when they have loaded it into the van locally and with the stuff
you have to sign for, it shows up as signed for in seconds after you sign
for it. You sign on a mobile PDA. And they say who signed for it too.

and they don't mind large and heavy objects.

Yeah, I have had some pretty heavy stuff, particularly
the big glass widescreen TV. Takes 2 to move it.

My neighbour's sister had a huge bookshelf delivered (about 14 feet
wide) and there was no tail-lift in the van, and only one driver. She had to re-arrange delivery and get my neighbour
and me to go over there.

Yeah, I had to help the driver with the TV. There is only ever one monkey in the van.

They also have decent vans that can actually fit big stuff like skis in.

Ours all have the same sized vans that handle all that stuff fine.

Most Royal Mail vans are small, designed for lightweight packet and letters.

I havent seen any of the couriers using those here.

A few of the service operations for stuff like photocopiers etc use them here.

The guy at my post office said health and safety to me once, I poked fun at him and called him a wimp.

And thats why half your stuff never shows up.

They can nick it if they like, Royal Mail foot the bill for the lost stuff.

Sure, but I bet thats why you only get half what you order.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...


The nurburgring awaits, you snivelling coward

You didn't turn up and I am not giving you a second chance.

No you didn't did you, you sniveling coward


--
geoff

On 23/03/2012 22:28, dennis@home wrote:

So you don't know how CDs are made then!

Hint, the data is on the pressed side.
The laser shines through the pressed side.



This turns out not to be the case.

Wikipedia has it right this time. (the diagram may be slightly
misleading - the test is fine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact...ysical_details

Andy

On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the box, "Can also be
used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up with the
term. And that in German it's called "Flaschenöffner" while in Austrian
_only_ it's "Siebzehner".

But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by having earth
apples on the menu.

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
On 23/03/2012 22:28, dennis@home wrote:

So you don't know how CDs are made then!

Hint, the data is on the pressed side.
The laser shines through the pressed side.



This turns out not to be the case.

Wikipedia has it right this time. (the diagram may be slightly
misleading - the test is fine)

That diagram says what I said!
The pressed layer being layer "A"
The laser being "E" and it shines through, guess what?, the pressed layer
"A".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact...ysical_details

Andy

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the box, "Can also be
used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up with the
term. And that in German it's called "Flaschenöffner" while in
Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by having earth
apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries


--
geoff

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:36:06 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote
dennis@home wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

And the lacquer is a spun coated thermosetting *plastic* resin.

ITYM its usually UV setting and its really not a plastic layer at all,
its just thick enough to level the disk for the printing.

Only you dennis would print on the data side of a DVD...sigh..

All the stamped CDs do.

For commercial discs, I think the data is engraved into the transparent
plastic disc; the reflective surface is then pressed onto this (and
carries no information on its own), then a lacquer layer goes down to
protect the reverse side of the reflective surface, then finally artwork
is printed on top of that. The laser shines through the transparent disc,
with the beam disrupted by the engraving.

There isn't really a "data side" as such because it ends up in the middle
of the sandwich:

Screen-printed artwork / text
Lacquer
Reflective surface
Engraved data (on top surface of transparent disc)
Transparent disc
[laser shines from this side]

I'm not sure how this process differs when it comes to home-writable
media, however; presumably there's a layer of magic between the
transparent disc and the reflective surface (and bugger knows how
rewritable works! :-)

cheers

Jules

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...

For commercial discs, I think the data is engraved into the transparent
plastic disc;

They make a master, probably from glass.
Then they metal plate it to make a negative image in thin metal.
This is used as one side of the press, the otherside being flat.
The disks are pressed between and come out with the pits, etc.
Then metal is deposited on the pitted surface to make it reflective.

the reflective surface is then pressed onto this (and
carries no information on its own), then a lacquer layer goes down to
protect the reverse side of the reflective surface, then finally artwork
is printed on top of that. The laser shines through the transparent disc,
with the beam disrupted by the engraving.

There isn't really a "data side" as such because it ends up in the middle
of the sandwich:

Well there is as you can't generally read them through the printing.


Screen-printed artwork / text
Lacquer
Reflective surface
Engraved data (on top surface of transparent disc)
Transparent disc
[laser shines from this side]

I'm not sure how this process differs when it comes to home-writable
media, however; presumably there's a layer of magic between the
transparent disc and the reflective surface (and bugger knows how
rewritable works! :-)

You make a blank with just the tracking on it.
Then you cover it with a dye layer.
You burn the dye to put data on.


With re-writeable you use a phase change dye and different laser powers, you
can erase it by changing to a reflective state and then burn it by making
the "pits" using a different laser power. I forget what materials work best.

cheers

Jules

On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the box, "Can also be
used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up with the
term. And that in German it's called "Flaschenöffner" while in
Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by having earth
apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien. I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it said
"Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch "Aardappel". My
polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's been a bit
of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany. He'd never heard of the
Siebzehner term, and all unprompted said "We used to open them with
lighters"!

Andy

On 26/03/2012 19:59, dennis@home wrote:


"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...

For commercial discs, I think the data is engraved into the transparent
plastic disc;

They make a master, probably from glass.
Then they metal plate it to make a negative image in thin metal.
This is used as one side of the press, the otherside being flat.
The disks are pressed between and come out with the pits, etc.
Then metal is deposited on the pitted surface to make it reflective.

Yes, that's it. The laser shines right through the pressed layer to hit
the pits; the shiny stuff is on the side with the writing, and just
under it. It's wrong to say "the data is on the pressed side.
The laser shines through the pressed side."


the reflective surface is then pressed onto this (and
carries no information on its own), then a lacquer layer goes down to
protect the reverse side of the reflective surface, then finally artwork
is printed on top of that. The laser shines through the transparent disc,
with the beam disrupted by the engraving.

There isn't really a "data side" as such because it ends up in the middle
of the sandwich:


The data's damn near the writing. Be careful when labelling your discs.

Well there is as you can't generally read them through the printing.


Screen-printed artwork / text
Lacquer
Reflective surface
Engraved data (on top surface of transparent disc)
Transparent disc
[laser shines from this side]

I'm not sure how this process differs when it comes to home-writable
media, however; presumably there's a layer of magic between the
transparent disc and the reflective surface (and bugger knows how
rewritable works! :-)

You make a blank with just the tracking on it.

"Wobble track". Except Google doesn't seem to know the term. There's no
data.

Then you cover it with a dye layer.
You burn the dye to put data on.


With re-writeable you use a phase change dye and different laser powers,
you can erase it by changing to a reflective state and then burn it by
making the "pits" using a different laser power. I forget what materials
work best.

Opinions vary on the material. If you ever get trouble try a different
brand.

Andy.

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the box, "Can also be
used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up with the
term. And that in German it's called "Flaschenöffner" while in
Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by having earth
apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien.

So even further south, yes

I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it said
"Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch "Aardappel". My
polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's been a bit
of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany. He'd never heard of
the Siebzehner term, and all unprompted said "We used to open them with
lighters"!

But you can't do that, its not the right tool for the job ... be told !!


--
geoff

Jules Richardson wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
dennis@home wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

And the lacquer is a spun coated thermosetting *plastic* resin.

ITYM its usually UV setting and its really not a plastic layer
at all, its just thick enough to level the disk for the printing.

Only you dennis would print on the data side of a DVD...sigh..

All the stamped CDs do.

For commercial discs, I think the data is engraved into the transparent plastic disc;

Stamped actually, not engraved.

the reflective surface is then pressed onto this
(and carries no information on its own), then a lacquer layer
goes down to protect the reverse side of the reflective surface, then
finally artwork is printed on top of that. The laser shines through
the transparent disc, with the beam disrupted by the engraving.

What I said in a lot more words.

There isn't really a "data side" as such

There is with the relatively thick transparent plastic that you can see.

because it ends up in the middle of the sandwich:

But not of the relatively thick transparent plastic that you can see.

Screen-printed artwork / text
Lacquer
Reflective surface
Engraved data (on top surface of transparent disc)
Transparent disc
[laser shines from this side]

I'm not sure how this process differs when it comes to home-writable media,

There is no stamping of pits into one side of the thick transparent
plastic that you can see and not metal layer either.

Those are replaced by a layer that changes when you write to it.

however; presumably there's a layer of magic between
the transparent disc and the reflective surface

It is both the layer that changes when written and the reflective layer.

The reflective propertys are change by the writing.

(and bugger knows how rewritable works! :-)

The effect of writing is reversible with those.

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:28:43 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the box, "Can also be
used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up with the
term. And that in German it's called "Flaschenöffner" while in
Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by having earth
apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien.

So even further south, yes

I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it said
"Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch "Aardappel". My
polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's been a bit
of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany. He'd never heard of
the Siebzehner term, and all unprompted said "We used to open them with
lighters"!

But you can't do that, its not the right tool for the job ... be told !!

Correct. Moreover, Flaschenöffner are available everywhere - Karstadt,
Kaufhof etc etc, so there's no excuse.

MM

In message , MM
writes
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:28:43 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the box, "Can also be
used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up with the
term. And that in German it's called "Flaschenöffner" while in
Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by having earth
apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien.

So even further south, yes

I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it said
"Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch "Aardappel". My
polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's been a bit
of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany. He'd never heard of
the Siebzehner term, and all unprompted said "We used to open them with
lighters"!

But you can't do that, its not the right tool for the job ... be told !!

Correct. Moreover, Flaschenöffner are available everywhere - Karstadt,
Kaufhof etc etc, so there's no excuse.

Do **** off you tedious old fart


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , MM
writes
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:28:43 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message ,
Andy Champ writes
On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message ,
Andy Champ writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the
box, "Can also be used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener
called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up
with the term. And that in German it's called
"Flaschenöffner" while in Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by
having earth apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien.

So even further south, yes

I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it said
"Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch
"Aardappel". My polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's
been a bit of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany. He'd
never heard of the Siebzehner term, and all unprompted
said "We used to open them with lighters"!

But you can't do that, its not the right tool for the job ... be
told !!

Correct. Moreover, Flaschenöffner are available everywhere -
Karstadt, Kaufhof etc etc, so there's no excuse.

Do **** off you tedious old fart

It's MM.

He's the only person in the world to find a full tube of KY jelly on the
street and then become gay in order to get the best financial returns out of
his find.

--
Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:

It's MM.

He's the only person in the world to find a full tube of KY jelly on the
street and then become gay in order to get the best financial returns out of
his find.

+1


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , MM
writes
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:28:43 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy
Champ
writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the box, "Can
also be
used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up with the
term. And that in German it's called "Flaschenöffner" while in
Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by having earth
apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien.

So even further south, yes

I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it said
"Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch "Aardappel". My
polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's been a bit
of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany. He'd never heard of
the Siebzehner term, and all unprompted said "We used to open them with
lighters"!

But you can't do that, its not the right tool for the job ... be told !!

Correct. Moreover, Flaschenöffner are available everywhere - Karstadt,
Kaufhof etc etc, so there's no excuse.

Do **** off you tedious old fart

DOH, here comes Geoff mincing his words again

"brass monkey" wrote in message
eb.com...

"geoff" wrote in message
...

8

Do **** off you tedious old fart

DOH, here comes Geoff mincing his words again

He knows more about that than how CDs are constructed.
He probably finds it more useful too.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:01:58 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

geoff wrote:
In message , MM
writes
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:28:43 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message ,
Andy Champ writes
On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message ,
Andy Champ writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on the
box, "Can also be used to destroy unwanted CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle opener
called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came up
with the term. And that in German it's called
"Flaschenöffner" while in Austrian _only_ it's "Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by
having earth apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien.

So even further south, yes

I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it said
"Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch
"Aardappel". My polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's
been a bit of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany. He'd
never heard of the Siebzehner term, and all unprompted
said "We used to open them with lighters"!

But you can't do that, its not the right tool for the job ... be
told !!

Correct. Moreover, Flaschenöffner are available everywhere -
Karstadt, Kaufhof etc etc, so there's no excuse.

Do **** off you tedious old fart

It's MM.

He's the only person in the world to find a full tube of KY jelly on the
street and then become gay in order to get the best financial returns out of
his find.

KY jelly is used for lubrication for non-sexual purposes.

MM

MM wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:01:58 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

geoff wrote:
In message , MM
writes
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:28:43 +0100, geoff
wrote:

In message ,
Andy Champ writes
On 25/03/2012 22:57, geoff wrote:
In message
, Andy
Champ writes
On 24/03/2012 13:24, geoff wrote:

Another way of selling them would be to list on
the box, "Can also be used to destroy unwanted
CDs".

Ever seen such inclusion listed?

OK - blööööde trottel

you say you lived in germany. What is a bottle
opener called?

Flaschenöffner.

Z.b.

http://www.ostarrichi.org/woerterbuch.html?wort=1851v

cough That says the Austrians think the Russians came
up with the term. And that in German it's called
"Flaschenöffner" while in Austrian _only_ it's
"Siebzehner".

Whatever, it was the first reference I found

It was in common usage when I lived there


But then, these are the guys that confused my wife by
having earth apples on the menu.

Was that in Bavaria ?

In Franconia they are called earth berries



Wien.

So even further south, yes

I speak hardly any German, so I'm used to guessing; when it
said "Erdäpfel" I guessed it was something like the Dutch
"Aardappel". My polyglot wife insisted on asking the waiter.

Today I asked one of my colleagues about this, knowing he's
been a bit of a drinker in his past, and lived in Germany.
He'd never heard of the Siebzehner term, and all unprompted
said "We used to open them with lighters"!

But you can't do that, its not the right tool for the job ...
be told !!

Correct. Moreover, Flaschenöffner are available everywhere -
Karstadt, Kaufhof etc etc, so there's no excuse.

Do **** off you tedious old fart

It's MM.

He's the only person in the world to find a full tube of KY jelly
on the street and then become gay in order to get the best
financial returns out of his find.

KY jelly is used for lubrication for non-sexual purposes.


And the reason your new shoes are two sizes too small for your feet is
because last year you found a packet of corn plasters on the floor whilst
bending over using up the KY jelly.


--
Adam

MM wrote:

KY jelly is used for lubrication for non-sexual purposes.


in your case, that goes without saying.

MM


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"brass monkey" wrote in message
web.com...

"geoff" wrote in message
...

8

Do **** off you tedious old fart

DOH, here comes Geoff mincing his words again

He knows more about that than how CDs are constructed.
He probably finds it more useful too.

Dennis, have you been on the white wine again ?

--
geoff

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:

It's MM.
He's the only person in the world to find a full tube of KY jelly on
the street and then become gay in order to get the best financial
returns out of his find.

+1

I agree, you're cut from the same cloth as MM.

In message , MM
writes
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:15:55 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:



Crazy, when there are shredders
available for the price of a decent meal for two or a tankful of fuel.

or a good night in the pub.

You actually BOUGHT a new microwave, then modded it?!! Risible, when
you could have simply bought a shredder. Since I bought mine, there
are new models on the market that are considerably cheaper (under 40
quid). It's a no-brainer.

Maybe it's just fun to nuke CD's


MM

'Cooking' CDs in a microwave is like using a dishwasher to cook fish.
Risible. Maybe these folks just bang screws in with a hammer if they
don't own a screwdriver.

Oh do let up you wet old fart


--
geoff