The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space them
apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the plastic
or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I was able to
use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had to mod it with
a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them
hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier, although
you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

not into plastics. A couple of seconds is all it takes and there is no plastic melting or fumes.

Yes.

Do people just put up with the stench permeating their houses?

No,. they do it the way descrued

Crazy, when there are shredders
available for the price of a decent meal for two or a tankful of
fuel. You actually BOUGHT a new microwave, then modded it?!!
Risible, when you could have simply bought a shredder. Since I
bought mine, there are new models on the market that are
considerably cheaper (under 40 quid). It's a no-brainer.

No, using a microwave you already have on full power for a few seconds
is far cheaper, faster, uses less energy, creates no fumes and leaves
you with neat disposable platters totally undamaged except inside in
the data later itself

Yep.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:59:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Its a no brainer to use the microwave for free.

And then heat up your evening meal in the same microwave?

Someone pick me up off the floor, please, as I appear to be rolling
around laughing my arse off!



what, about 'the plastic never even gets hot' did you NOT understand and
the 'it doesn't create any fumes or smell'

Dickhead.

Cant admio you are plain wrong can you?

I use the right tool for the job, and microwave ovens ain't that!

MM

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:15:55 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Mar 21, 8:44*am, MM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:31:06 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley









wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:11*pm, Adam Funk wrote:
On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?

CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space them
apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just long
enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the plastic or
there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I was able to use a
cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had to mod it with a fixed
timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them hot
enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier, although you do
need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic,
extremely obnoxious fumes will be released. Do people just put up with
the stench permeating their houses?

I always thought that doing such things in a microwave could damage
the oven.
As your'e not mean to put matalic objects in them, well I guess
tehre's not much metal on 1 CD.


Crazy, when there are shredders
available for the price of a decent meal for two or a tankful of fuel.

or a good night in the pub.

You actually BOUGHT a new microwave, then modded it?!! Risible, when
you could have simply bought a shredder. Since I bought mine, there
are new models on the market that are considerably cheaper (under 40
quid). It's a no-brainer.

Maybe it's just fun to nuke CD's


MM

'Cooking' CDs in a microwave is like using a dishwasher to cook fish.
Risible. Maybe these folks just bang screws in with a hammer if they
don't own a screwdriver.

MM

On 21/03/2012 19:40, MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:59:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Its a no brainer to use the microwave for free.

And then heat up your evening meal in the same microwave?

Someone pick me up off the floor, please, as I appear to be rolling
around laughing my arse off!



what, about 'the plastic never even gets hot' did you NOT understand and
the 'it doesn't create any fumes or smell'

Dickhead.

Cant admio you are plain wrong can you?

I use the right tool for the job, and microwave ovens ain't that!


But do they do the job? Even quickly and efficiently?

MM wrote
Rod Speed wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?

CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space
them apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a
$500 silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for
just long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the
plastic or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I
was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had to
mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting
them hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is
easier, although you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs!

Its the quickest and easiest way to make them unreadable.

Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Nope, not if you only give them 10 secs at most.

Do people just put up with the stench permeating their houses?

Doesnt happen if you only give them 10 secs at most.

Crazy, when there are shredders available for the
price of a decent meal for two or a tankful of fuel.

Using the microwave doesnt cost anything like that.

You actually BOUGHT a new microwave, then modded it?!!
Risible, when you could have simply bought a shredder.

Nope.

Since I bought mine, there are new models on the market that
are considerably cheaper (under 40 quid). It's a no-brainer.

Its a no brainer to use the microwave for free.

And then heat up your evening meal in the same microwave?

Yep, no problem at all.

Someone pick me up off the floor, please, as I
appear to be rolling around laughing my arse off!

Your problem, no one is going to pick you up, you watch.

They have in fact ALL ****ed on you down there on the floor instead.

whisky-dave wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?

CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space
them apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the plastic
or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I was able to
use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had to mod it with
a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them
hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier, although
you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic,
extremely obnoxious fumes will be released. Do people just put up
with the stench permeating their houses?

I always thought that doing such things in a microwave could damage the oven.

Nope.

As your'e not mean to put matalic objects in them,

That hasnt been true for a long time now. Plenty of them
tell you to put some alfoil on the ends of stuff like chicken
drumsticks to stop them getting burnt etc.

And some even include wire racks too.

well I guess tehre's not much metal on 1 CD.

Metal isnt necessarily a problem.

Crazy, when there are shredders available for the
price of a decent meal for two or a tankful of fuel.

or a good night in the pub.

Using the microwave doesnt cost anything like any of those.

You actually BOUGHT a new microwave, then modded it?!! Risible, when
you could have simply bought a shredder. Since I bought mine, there
are new models on the market that are considerably cheaper (under 40
quid). It's a no-brainer.

Maybe it's just fun to nuke CD's

Or maybe its just the easiest way to make the unreadable.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:37:36 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space them
apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the plastic
or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I was able to
use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had to mod it with
a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them
hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier, although
you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

It's still a bit cruel to the chicken, isn't it?

--
Frank Erskine

Frank Erskine wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way
to destroy data CDs? CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space
them apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the
plastic or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I
was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had
to mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them
hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier, although
you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic,
extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

It's still a bit cruel to the chicken, isn't it?

**** the chicken.

Thats even crueler.

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 20:41:42 -0000, neil wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:11:54 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the surfaces
up a bit

That'll stop all but the most determined from reading a CD. Some
coarse (40 or 60 grit) sand paper will do the same or an angle
grinder.

rather than break them into bits.

They are tough but brittle buggers. Flex one enough so that it breaks
and you get a fair few high speed and sharp bits of sharpnel...

IIRC they burn well but the best is to use a microwave oven.

I use a paper knife to scratch the data surface - it normally flakes off
like confetti.

I've heard of someone making a paper kettle, but a paper knife?!

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

I told my wife the truth. I told her I was seeing a psychiatrist.
Then she told me the truth: that she was seeing a psychiatrist, two plumbers, and a bartender.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:41:07 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Adam Funk writes:
On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the surfaces
up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Q. What's hairy on the outside, wet on the inside, begins with a "C" and ends with a "T"?
A. A coconut.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just
scratch the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the
magnetron?

Normally not.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 00:03:39 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just
scratch the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.

What about a "Tesco (supermarket) value microwave" that cost £25?

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the
magnetron?

Normally not.

Cut out or it can just absorb it?

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data
CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch
the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.

What about a "Tesco (supermarket) value microwave" that cost £25?

Dunno, thats the big problem with the cheapest chinese stuff,
you basically have to try it and see if it does what you want.

Corse if you do kill it you likely can just claim on the warranty with that one.

Corse one from a garage/yard sale would likely be much cheaper.

Dunno about there, but here you usually see a working
microwave most weekends at the garage/yard sales.

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves
with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Normally not.

Cut out or it can just absorb it?

Just handles it fine.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:05:51 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 21/03/2012 19:40, MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:59:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"

Its a no brainer to use the microwave for free.

And then heat up your evening meal in the same microwave?

Someone pick me up off the floor, please, as I appear to be rolling
around laughing my arse off!



what, about 'the plastic never even gets hot' did you NOT understand and
the 'it doesn't create any fumes or smell'

Dickhead.

Cant admio you are plain wrong can you?

I use the right tool for the job, and microwave ovens ain't that!


But do they do the job? Even quickly and efficiently?

Not compared to a dedicated shredder, no.

MM

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 23:35:48 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:41:07 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Adam Funk writes:
On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the surfaces
up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Don't worry! These people will just buy another microwave, then
another... and so on... Still, I suppose this group IS d-i-y, so some
people will try anything! From the web:

"The vapors or fumes released from most DVD's and CD's while
microwaving them are TOXIC. Do not do the above unless you have a
spare microwave, as the fumes can attach to the walls of the
microwave, or cling to your food."

MM

Rod Speed wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space them
apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the plastic
or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I was able to
use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had to mod it with
a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them
hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier, although
you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

Microwaves (to heat) need to get absorbed by something. They 'bounce
off' thick metal film because they do get absorbed, and that sets up
currents that effectively cancel the EMF at that point this reflecting
them back with if you like a counteracting EMF generated by the foil.

BUT that current itself does heat the foil a bit and if the foil is thin
enough...


Its a bit like saying you want see a voltage drop across a straight
piece of metal - well you wont until you have a larger enough current
and a small enough piece of metal and then you have a fuse.

CD metallization is thin enough to not withstand the currents needed to
reflect the microwaves without fusing - that's all.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

Rod Speed wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just
scratch the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.


even the cheapest **** from, china has to be essentially protected
against anything a consumer can put in it because at some point a
consumer will..

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the
magnetron?

Normally not.

Not sure if there is no 'load' the magnetron will draw much power at all.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 22 Mar 2012 11:15:52 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2012-03-22, MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 23:35:48 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:41:07 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Adam Funk writes:
On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the surfaces
up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Don't worry! These people will just buy another microwave, then
another... and so on... Still, I suppose this group IS d-i-y, so some
people will try anything! From the web:

"The vapors or fumes released from most DVD's and CD's while
microwaving them are TOXIC. Do not do the above unless you have a
spare microwave, as the fumes can attach to the walls of the
microwave, or cling to your food."

Bored now.

*plonk*

You're bored, yet you come on here and TELL us? That's not a sign of
being bored, you know!

MM

MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 23:35:48 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:41:07 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Adam Funk writes:
On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the surfaces
up a bit rather than break them into bits.
I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.
Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Don't worry! These people will just buy another microwave, then
another... and so on... Still, I suppose this group IS d-i-y, so some
people will try anything! From the web:

"The vapors or fumes released from most DVD's and CD's while
microwaving them are TOXIC. Do not do the above unless you have a
spare microwave, as the fumes can attach to the walls of the
microwave, or cling to your food."


No that's from your earlier posting and of course is simply wrong.

That its now reached the web via google groups is of course just another
example of how to get a total lie into every search engine on the planet
in a couple of days.

MM


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:20:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 23:35:48 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:41:07 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Adam Funk writes:
On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the surfaces
up a bit rather than break them into bits.
I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.
Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Don't worry! These people will just buy another microwave, then
another... and so on... Still, I suppose this group IS d-i-y, so some
people will try anything! From the web:

"The vapors or fumes released from most DVD's and CD's while
microwaving them are TOXIC. Do not do the above unless you have a
spare microwave, as the fumes can attach to the walls of the
microwave, or cling to your food."


No that's from your earlier posting and of course is simply wrong.

That its now reached the web via google groups is of course just another
example of how to get a total lie into every search engine on the planet
in a couple of days.

MM

Oh, just Google, will ya! (Gawd, it's like trying to talk to a
baby...)

MM

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:37:47 -0000, MM wrote:

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 23:35:48 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:41:07 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Adam Funk writes:
On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the surfaces
up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Don't worry! These people will just buy another microwave, then
another... and so on... Still, I suppose this group IS d-i-y, so some
people will try anything! From the web:

"The vapors or fumes released from most DVD's and CD's while
microwaving them are TOXIC. Do not do the above unless you have a
spare microwave, as the fumes can attach to the walls of the
microwave, or cling to your food."

If they were that dangerous, there would be a "DANGER DO NOT LICK" sticker on them. Or "NOT SUITABLE FOR UNDER 3 YEAR OLDS".

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

We've come so far that community service is considered punishment.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:19:04 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just
scratch the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.


even the cheapest **** from, china has to be essentially protected
against anything a consumer can put in it because at some point a
consumer will..

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the
magnetron?

Normally not.

Not sure if there is no 'load' the magnetron will draw much power at all.

I thought they produced the rated output no matter what. The magnetron doesn't know if there is water in the oven or not. Then if the microwaves aren't absorbed, they bounce around and come back to the magnetron where they're absorbed by the ballast or whatever it's called. If there is nothing in the microwave at all, that ballast has to absorb several hundred watts. I'd assume there'd be some kind of cutout if it got very warm - I've never heard of a microwave oven catching fire or exploding simply because the food in it dried out when someone set the timer wrong.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, 1949

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wbkx9sylytk5n5@i7-940...

I've never heard of a microwave oven catching fire or exploding simply
because the food in it dried out when someone set the timer wrong.


I have.
I had to remove the lady responsible from the flat as it had smoke pouring
from the windows.
It was a cake of some sort that she had put on 20 minutes and then forgotten
she had put it in.
I don't know where the fire started but at least the building survived if
not the microwave.

MM wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the
surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or
not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's
several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy
load in the magnetron?

Don't worry! These people will just buy another microwave, then
another... and so on... Still, I suppose this group IS d-i-y, so some
people will try anything! From the web:

"The vapors or fumes released from most DVD's and CD's while
microwaving them are TOXIC. Do not do the above unless you have a
spare microwave, as the fumes can attach to the walls of the
microwave, or cling to your food."

Just because some ignorant fool claims something, doesnt make it gospel.

If you zap them for a second or 5 and dont get the plastic even warm, that doesnt happen.

Rod Speed wrote:
MM wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs?
The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch the
surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them
all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or
not much to absorb like water) in it? Will it overheat as there's
several hundred watts of microwaves with nowhere to go but the dummy
load in the magnetron?

Don't worry! These people will just buy another microwave, then
another... and so on... Still, I suppose this group IS d-i-y, so some
people will try anything! From the web:

"The vapors or fumes released from most DVD's and CD's while
microwaving them are TOXIC. Do not do the above unless you have a
spare microwave, as the fumes can attach to the walls of the
microwave, or cling to your food."

Just because some ignorant fool claims something, doesnt make it gospel.

If you zap them for a second or 5 and dont get the plastic even warm, that doesnt happen.


Its extremely hard to get plastic warm in a microwave anyway.

It doesn't conduct.

MM has clearly never put a plastic dish in a microwave. In fact it is
likely he knows as little about microwaves as he does about sex.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space them
apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the
plastic or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I
was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had
to mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is
easier, although you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

Microwaves (to heat) need to get absorbed by something.

Yes, but the destruction of CDs when done right isnt done by heat.

They 'bounce off' thick metal film because they do get absorbed,

They bounce off thick metal film even when there is nothing to absorb them, like
when microwave is empty and you only have the thick metal walls etc there.

and that sets up currents that effectively cancel the EMF at that point this reflecting them back with if you like a
counteracting EMF generated by the foil.

That utterly mangles what actually happens.

Microwaves bounce around inside the microwave oven.

They dont get absorbed by the ends of the chicken drumsticks
that you have covered in foil just because they cant get thru the
foil and so whats under the foil doesnt get heated, and so doesnt
burn. You still get conduction of the heat thru the bone from the
part of the drumstick that isnt covered in foil and so is heated by
the microwaves.

BUT that current itself does heat the foil a bit

Nope.

and if the foil is thin enough...

The reason you get a spectacular light show is the very thin foil getting
vaporised by the currents that flow in the foil because its an antenna.

Nothing to do with heat.

Its a bit like saying you want see a voltage drop across a straight
piece of metal - well you wont until you have a larger enough current
and a small enough piece of metal and then you have a fuse.

Cut thats current, not heat.

CD metallization is thin enough to not withstand the currents needed to reflect the microwaves without fusing - that's
all.

Yes, and its not heat, its currents.

The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data
CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch
the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.

even the cheapest **** from, china has to be essentially protected against anything a consumer can put in it because
at some point a consumer will..

Nope. Just like with the earliest locally manufactured microwave ovens, they
just accept the fact they they will die, because thats a cheaper approach.

And if you try to claim in the warranty, they rub your nose
in the bit of the instructions that say you shouldnt do that.

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves
with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Normally not.

Not sure if there is no 'load' the magnetron will draw much power at all.

That did happen a bit with some of the earliest microwave ovens.

Rod Speed wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space them
apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the
plastic or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I
was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had
to mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting them hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is
easier, although you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

Microwaves (to heat) need to get absorbed by something.

Yes, but the destruction of CDs when done right isnt done by heat.

They 'bounce off' thick metal film because they do get absorbed,

They bounce off thick metal film even when there is nothing to absorb them, like
when microwave is empty and you only have the thick metal walls etc there.

and that sets up currents that effectively cancel the EMF at that point this reflecting them back with if you like a
counteracting EMF generated by the foil.

That utterly mangles what actually happens.


No, its a valid mathematical way of looking at it actually - and the way
that explains WHY a conductor 'reflects' incident radiation.

In terms of a classical EMF model anyway. the same properties undergo a
transform into different equations in the quantum theory of photon
reflection.

But then you didn't do honours in electrical sciences, so you woudln't
probably have come across teh maths or that particular explanation.


Microwaves bounce around inside the microwave oven.

yes, and the reason why they do is because the walls are made of metal
that is thick enough not to smoke.


They dont get absorbed by the ends of the chicken drumsticks
that you have covered in foil just because they cant get thru the
foil and so whats under the foil doesnt get heated, and so doesnt
burn.

correct, but the waves DO get absorbed by the *foil* SURFACE ...and
that's what MAKES the foil SURFACE a microwave reflector.

It has circulating currents induced in it that set up an opposing EMF
that becomes the 'reflected wave'

That is why (in e classical model) reflection happens and not absorption
as it were, nevertheless nothing is a perfect reflector. The energy that
is lost - if its large enough, will heat the 'reflector' and destroy it.





You still get conduction of the heat thru the bone from the
part of the drumstick that isnt covered in foil and so is heated by
the microwaves.

BUT that current itself does heat the foil a bit

Nope.


Yes. Put a mirror in the sun. It still gets hot. Not as hot as a black
plate, but it gets hot.

Same for any reflector .


and if the foil is thin enough...

The reason you get a spectacular light show is the very thin foil getting
vaporised by the currents that flow in the foil because its an antenna.


if it absorbs no power than it wont - cant- get hot.

You are actually contradicting yourself Rod.


Nothing to do with heat.

so how do you vaporise metal without heat, Rod?

Theres a Nobel prize waitng for you

Its a bit like saying you want see a voltage drop across a straight
piece of metal - well you wont until you have a larger enough current
and a small enough piece of metal and then you have a fuse.

Cut thats current, not heat.

I squared R, Rod.


Do you have any basic knowledge of physics at all?

CD metallization is thin enough to not withstand the currents needed to reflect the microwaves without fusing - that's
all.

Yes, and its not heat, its currents.


Oh Rod...purlease.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data
CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch
the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.

even the cheapest **** from, china has to be essentially protected
against anything a consumer can put in it because at some point a
consumer will..

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves
with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Normally not.

Not sure if there is no 'load' the magnetron will draw much power at all.

I thought they produced the rated output no matter what.

Doubt itl, where is that energy going to go when the microwave is empty ?

The magnetron doesn't know if there is water in the oven or not.

It must be possible to measure what its putting out.

Then if the microwaves aren't absorbed, they bounce around and come back to the magnetron where they're absorbed by
the ballast or whatever it's called.

Not clear what you mean there.

If there is nothing in the microwave at all, that ballast has to absorb several hundred watts. I'd assume there'd be
some kind of cutout if it got very warm - I've never heard of a microwave oven catching fire or exploding simply
because the food in it dried out when someone set the timer wrong.

The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space
them apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just long enough to nuke the data layer, but
without cooking the
plastic or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I
was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had
to mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting
them hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier,
although you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

Microwaves (to heat) need to get absorbed by something.

Yes, but the destruction of CDs when done right isnt done by heat.

They 'bounce off' thick metal film because they do get absorbed,

They bounce off thick metal film even when there is nothing to
absorb them, like when microwave is empty and you only have the
thick metal walls etc there.

and that sets up currents that effectively cancel the EMF at that point this reflecting them back with if you like a
counteracting EMF generated by the foil.

That utterly mangles what actually happens.

No, its a valid mathematical way of looking at it actually - and the
way that explains WHY a conductor 'reflects' incident radiation.

Nope.

In terms of a classical EMF model anyway. the same properties
undergo a transform into different equations in the quantum theory of photon reflection.

You'll go blind if you dont watch out.

But then you didn't do honours in electrical sciences,

You have no idea what I have done.

so you woudln't probably have come across teh maths or that particular explanation.

Wrong again.

Microwaves bounce around inside the microwave oven.

yes, and the reason why they do is because the walls are made of metal that is thick enough not to smoke.

They dont even get heated.

They dont get absorbed by the ends of the chicken drumsticks
that you have covered in foil just because they cant get thru the foil and so whats under the foil doesnt get heated,
and so doesnt burn.

correct, but the waves DO get absorbed by the *foil* SURFACE ...
and that's what MAKES the foil SURFACE a microwave reflector.

But there is no HEATING involved.

It has circulating currents induced in it that set up an opposing EMF that becomes the 'reflected wave'

That is why (in e classical model) reflection happens and not
absorption as it were, nevertheless nothing is a perfect reflector.
The energy that is lost - if its large enough, will heat the
'reflector' and destroy it.

Wrong, that foil does not get destroyed or even affected.

You still get conduction of the heat thru the bone from the part of the drumstick that isnt covered in foil and so is
heated by the microwaves.

BUT that current itself does heat the foil a bit

Nope.

Yes. Put a mirror in the sun. It still gets hot.

And the walls of the microwave oven dont.

Not as hot as a black plate, but it gets hot.

Because of the IR falling on it.

Same for any reflector .

Nope, not with the walls of the microwave oven.

and if the foil is thin enough...

The reason you get a spectacular light show is the very thin foil
getting vaporised by the currents that flow in the foil because its
an antenna.

if it absorbs no power than it wont - cant- get hot.

I never said it gets hot.

You are actually contradicting yourself Rod.

Nope.

Nothing to do with heat.

so how do you vaporise metal without heat, Rod?

With the current flowing in it.

Theres a Nobel prize waitng for you

Nope.

Its a bit like saying you want see a voltage drop across a straight
piece of metal - well you wont until you have a larger enough
current and a small enough piece of metal and then you have a fuse.

Cut thats current, not heat.

I squared R, Rod.

It doent get hot.

Do you have any basic knowledge of physics at all?

Yep.

CD metallization is thin enough to not withstand the currents
needed to reflect the microwaves without fusing - that's all.

Yes, and its not heat, its currents.

Oh Rod...purlease.

Down on your knees, boy.

Rod Speed wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data
CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch
the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.

even the cheapest **** from, china has to be essentially protected
against anything a consumer can put in it because at some point a
consumer will..

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves
with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Normally not.

Not sure if there is no 'load' the magnetron will draw much power at all.

I thought they produced the rated output no matter what.

Doubt itl, where is that energy going to go when the microwave is empty ?

The magnetron doesn't know if there is water in the oven or not.

It must be possible to measure what its putting out.

it does 'know' essentially by the amount of energy being reflected back
(or not) which affects the coupling to the cavity.

Then if the microwaves aren't absorbed, they bounce around and come back to the magnetron where they're absorbed by
the ballast or whatever it's called.

Not clear what you mean there.


He knows less microwave theory than you do, so there ya go.

If there is nothing in the microwave at all, that ballast has to absorb several hundred watts. I'd assume there'd be
some kind of cutout if it got very warm - I've never heard of a microwave oven catching fire or exploding simply
because the food in it dried out when someone set the timer wrong.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

Rod Speed wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space
them apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just long enough to nuke the data layer, but
without cooking the
plastic or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I
was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had
to mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting
them hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier,
although you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

Microwaves (to heat) need to get absorbed by something.

Yes, but the destruction of CDs when done right isnt done by heat.

They 'bounce off' thick metal film because they do get absorbed,

They bounce off thick metal film even when there is nothing to
absorb them, like when microwave is empty and you only have the
thick metal walls etc there.

and that sets up currents that effectively cancel the EMF at that point this reflecting them back with if you like a
counteracting EMF generated by the foil.

That utterly mangles what actually happens.

No, its a valid mathematical way of looking at it actually - and the
way that explains WHY a conductor 'reflects' incident radiation.

Nope.

In terms of a classical EMF model anyway. the same properties
undergo a transform into different equations in the quantum theory of photon reflection.

You'll go blind if you dont watch out.

But then you didn't do honours in electrical sciences,

You have no idea what I have done.


No, but I have a very good idea from what you say what you have NOT done.

so you woudln't probably have come across teh maths or that particular explanation.

Wrong again.

OK so you accept my explanation now?

Otherwise your actual words say that you HAVE come across my explanation
and its common knowledge, which again contradicts what you said earlier.

You must learn to post properly Rod. You really are not going to win
trolling arguments if you fall into every single elephant trap set for you.

It just makes you look stupid and clumsy.

Microwaves bounce around inside the microwave oven.

yes, and the reason why they do is because the walls are made of metal that is thick enough not to smoke.

They dont even get heated.

Well actually they do, just not very much ;-)

They dont get absorbed by the ends of the chicken drumsticks
that you have covered in foil just because they cant get thru the foil and so whats under the foil doesnt get heated,
and so doesnt burn.

correct, but the waves DO get absorbed by the *foil* SURFACE ...
and that's what MAKES the foil SURFACE a microwave reflector.

But there is no HEATING involved.

There is, again, some. Just not very much as nearly all the energy does
get reflected

It has circulating currents induced in it that set up an opposing EMF that becomes the 'reflected wave'

That is why (in e classical model) reflection happens and not
absorption as it were, nevertheless nothing is a perfect reflector.
The energy that is lost - if its large enough, will heat the
'reflector' and destroy it.

Wrong, that foil does not get destroyed or even affected.

It would if you stuck it in front of a real he-magnetron on a military
radar set.

As it is it just gets a bit warm.


You still get conduction of the heat thru the bone from the part of the drumstick that isnt covered in foil and so is
heated by the microwaves.

BUT that current itself does heat the foil a bit

Nope.

Yes. Put a mirror in the sun. It still gets hot.

And the walls of the microwave oven dont.

They do, but its only a piddling 800W magnetron and the surface is a
relatively good conductor, and quite thick.

If you think there is no loss of energy and no heating and can prove
that the oven wall reflect 100% of the waves there's another Nobel prize
waiting for you.

But my oven walls and perfectly smooth superconductors.


Not as hot as a black plate, but it gets hot.

Because of the IR falling on it.

Exactly. IR ios very short waelength microwaves isn't it?

Same for any reflector .

Nope, not with the walls of the microwave oven.


You are a card Rod! I love watching you making an asshole of yourself.

and if the foil is thin enough...

The reason you get a spectacular light show is the very thin foil
getting vaporised by the currents that flow in the foil because its
an antenna.

if it absorbs no power than it wont - cant- get hot.

I never said it gets hot.

You are actually contradicting yourself Rod.

Nope.

Yes, because you said it absorbed power without getting hot and thats
why it vapourises!

Anyone who can make a metal vapour and strike arcs in it without it
getting hot is in for a second Noble prize after the superconducting
microwave walls.


Nothing to do with heat.

so how do you vaporise metal without heat, Rod?

With the current flowing in it.


And what does current flowing through a metal do Rod? What is Ohms law,
and what does it say? and where does the power lost in a resistor end up?


Theres a Nobel prize waitng for you

Nope.

Its a bit like saying you want see a voltage drop across a straight
piece of metal - well you wont until you have a larger enough
current and a small enough piece of metal and then you have a fuse.

Cut thats current, not heat.

I squared R, Rod.

It doent get hot.

It doe get hot, child


Do you have any basic knowledge of physics at all?

Yep.

Liar :-)


CD metallization is thin enough to not withstand the currents
needed to reflect the microwaves without fusing - that's all.

Yes, and its not heat, its currents.

Oh Rod...purlease.

Down on your knees, boy.


what for? I just farted in your general direction. Its all you are worth.



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data
CDs? The shredders I've come across with CD slots just scratch
the surfaces up a bit rather than break them into bits.

I had a large pile, and didn't like the idea of feeding them all through the microwave, in case it damaged it.

Does anyone know if you can bust a microwave if there is nothing (or not much to absorb like water) in it?

In theory you can, but decent modern designs allow for that.

Corse all bets are off with the cheapest **** from china.

even the cheapest **** from, china has to be essentially protected against anything a consumer can put in it
because at some point a consumer will..

Will it overheat as there's several hundred watts of microwaves
with nowhere to go but the dummy load in the magnetron?

Normally not.

Not sure if there is no 'load' the magnetron will draw much power at all.

I thought they produced the rated output no matter what.

Doubt itl, where is that energy going to go when the microwave is empty ?

The magnetron doesn't know if there is water in the oven or not.

It must be possible to measure what its putting out.

it does 'know' essentially by the amount of energy being reflected back (or not) which affects the coupling to the
cavity.

What I said in twice as many words.

Then if the microwaves aren't absorbed, they bounce around and come back to the magnetron where they're absorbed by
the ballast or whatever it's called.

Not clear what you mean there.

He knows less microwave theory than you do, so there ya go.

I know more than you do, thanks.

About concrete too.

If there is nothing in the microwave at all, that ballast has to
absorb several hundred watts. I'd assume there'd be some kind of
cutout if it got very warm - I've never heard of a microwave oven
catching fire or exploding simply because the food in it dried out
when someone set the timer wrong.

Rod Speed wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

He knows less microwave theory than you do, so there ya go.

I know more than you do, thanks.


I am sure you do, about aboriginal girls and outback bars and dunnies,
but we are talking about microwaves.


About concrete too.


Poor deluded man.

Are you a relative of Drivel?



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data CDs? CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space
them apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a $500 silicon wafer processing boat). You also
need to do them for
just long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the plastic or there's a fume problem. For
regular industrial use I was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but
had to mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting
them hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier, although you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic, extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the
conductive metallisation which arcs and splits apart without
even getting the plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

Microwaves (to heat) need to get absorbed by something.

Yes, but the destruction of CDs when done right isnt done by heat.

They 'bounce off' thick metal film because they do get absorbed,

They bounce off thick metal film even when there is nothing to
absorb them, like when microwave is empty and you only have the
thick metal walls etc there.

and that sets up currents that effectively cancel the EMF at that
point this reflecting them back with if you like a counteracting
EMF generated by the foil.

That utterly mangles what actually happens.

No, its a valid mathematical way of looking at it actually - and the
way that explains WHY a conductor 'reflects' incident radiation.

Nope.

In terms of a classical EMF model anyway. the same properties
undergo a transform into different equations in the quantum theory
of photon reflection.

You'll go blind if you dont watch out.

But then you didn't do honours in electrical sciences,

You have no idea what I have done.

No, but I have a very good idea from what you say what you have NOT done.

Wrong, as always.

so you woudln't probably have come across teh maths or that particular explanation.

Wrong again.

OK so you accept my explanation now?

Nope, it doesnt explain why the walls of the microwave dont heat up.

Otherwise your actual words say that you HAVE come across my explanation and its common knowledge,

Wrong, as always.

which again contradicts what you said earlier.

Wrong, as always.

You must learn to post properly Rod.

You really need to work on your bull****ting 'skills', BAD, gutless.

You really are not going to win trolling arguments

You wouldnt know what a real trolling argument was if one bit you on your lard arse.

if you fall into every single elephant trap set for you.

Juat another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

It just makes you look stupid and clumsy.

Thats the mirror you're looking at, stupid.

In spades with your silly **** about concrete.

Microwaves bounce around inside the microwave oven.

yes, and the reason why they do is because the walls are made of metal that is thick enough not to smoke.

They dont even get heated.

Well actually they do,

Nope.

just not very much ;-)

Not at all in fact.

They dont get absorbed by the ends of the chicken drumsticks that you have covered in foil just because they cant
get thru the foil and so whats under the foil doesnt get heated, and so doesnt burn.

correct, but the waves DO get absorbed by the *foil* SURFACE ...
and that's what MAKES the foil SURFACE a microwave reflector.

But there is no HEATING involved.

There is, again, some.

Nope. And you can prove that by putting the same sized bit in the oven not
around something that can conduct heat from where its being absorbed.

Just not very much as nearly all the energy does get reflected

In fact none of it in practical terms gets absorbed, so it doesnt get heated.

It has circulating currents induced in it that set up an opposing EMF that becomes the 'reflected wave'

That is why (in e classical model) reflection happens and not
absorption as it were, nevertheless nothing is a perfect reflector.
The energy that is lost - if its large enough, will heat the
'reflector' and destroy it.

Wrong, that foil does not get destroyed or even affected.

It would if you stuck it in front of a real he-magnetron on a military radar set.

Irrelevant to what happens in a microwave oven.

As it is it just gets a bit warm.

Nope, not warm at all. And thats trivial to prove, as I said.

You still get conduction of the heat thru the bone from the part of the drumstick that isnt covered in foil and so
is heated by the microwaves.

BUT that current itself does heat the foil a bit

Nope.

Yes. Put a mirror in the sun. It still gets hot.

And the walls of the microwave oven dont.

They do,

They dont.

but its only a piddling 800W magnetron and the surface is a relatively good conductor, and quite thick.

And if you put a small piece of alfoil in the microwave with
nothing in the oven that absorbs any microwaves, it doesnt
even get warmed at all.

Nice theory/claim, pity abou the real world.

If you think there is no loss of energy and no heating and can prove that the oven wall reflect 100% of the waves
there's another Nobel prize waiting for you.

Nope.

But my oven walls and perfectly smooth superconductors.

Try that again in english instead of gibberish.

Not as hot as a black plate, but it gets hot.

Because of the IR falling on it.

Exactly. IR ios very short waelength microwaves isn't it?

Nope.

Same for any reflector .

Nope, not with the walls of the microwave oven.

You are a card Rod! I love watching you making an asshole of yourself.

I did with your stupid stuff about concrete.

and if the foil is thin enough...

The reason you get a spectacular light show is the very thin foil getting vaporised by the currents that flow in
the foil because its an antenna.

if it absorbs no power than it wont - cant- get hot.

I never said it gets hot.

You are actually contradicting yourself Rod.

Nope.

Yes,

Nope.

because you said it absorbed power without getting hot

LIke hell I ever did.

and thats why it vapourises!

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying.

Anyone who can make a metal vapour and strike arcs in it without it getting hot is in for a second Noble prize after
the superconducting microwave walls.

You'll end up completely blind if you dont watch out boy.

Nothing to do with heat.

so how do you vaporise metal without heat, Rod?

With the current flowing in it.

And what does current flowing through a metal do Rod?

When its as thin as that film, it doesnt heat it, stupid.

What is Ohms law, and what does it say?

Nothing like your mindless silly ****.

and where does the power lost in a resistor end up?

Nothing like your mindless silly ****.

Theres a Nobel prize waitng for you

Nope.

Its a bit like saying you want see a voltage drop across a straight piece of metal - well you wont until you have
a larger enough
current and a small enough piece of metal and then you have a fuse.

Cut thats current, not heat.

I squared R, Rod.

It doent get hot.

It doe get hot, child

You previously claimed the CDs dont, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

Do you have any basic knowledge of physics at all?

Yep.

Liar :-)

Leaves yours for dead in fact.

Concrete too.

CD metallization is thin enough to not withstand the currents
needed to reflect the microwaves without fusing - that's all.

Yes, and its not heat, its currents.

Oh Rod...purlease.

Down on your knees, boy.

reams of your puerile **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
MM wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
Adam Funk wrote

On a related note, is there a good & easy way to destroy data
CDs? CDs or CD-ROMs?

If they're CD-ROMs, you can microwave them. You need to space
them apart if you're doing a batch (plastic toastrack, or else a
$500
silicon wafer processing boat). You also need to do them for just
long enough to nuke the data layer, but without cooking the
plastic or there's a fume problem. For regular industrial use I
was able to use a cheap domestic microwave from Currys, but had
to mod it with a fixed timer and a single big push button.

CDs can't be nuked to reliably kill the data without getting
them hot enough to cause a fume problem. Shredding is easier,
although you do need a hefty shredder.

I do not understand this penchant for microwaving CDs! Toxic,
extremely obnoxious fumes will be released.

Absolute bull****.

Yes.

You simply dont understand: you are rapidly heating the conductive
metallisation which arcs and splits apart without even getting the
plastic hot.

It uses the properties of the microwave to put heat into conductors,

No, in fact they just bounce off those. Thats why alfoil on the
ends of say chicken chicken drumsticks stops the ends burning.

Microwaves (to heat) need to get absorbed by something.

Yes, but the destruction of CDs when done right isnt done by heat.

They 'bounce off' thick metal film because they do get absorbed,

They bounce off thick metal film even when there is nothing to
absorb them, like when microwave is empty and you only have the
thick metal walls etc there.

and that sets up currents that effectively cancel the EMF at that
point this reflecting them back with if you like a counteracting EMF
generated by the foil.

That utterly mangles what actually happens.

No, its a valid mathematical way of looking at it actually - and the
way that explains WHY a conductor 'reflects' incident radiation.

Nope.

In terms of a classical EMF model anyway. the same properties
undergo a transform into different equations in the quantum theory of
photon reflection.

You'll go blind if you dont watch out.

But then you didn't do honours in electrical sciences,

You have no idea what I have done.


No, but I have a very good idea from what you say what you have NOT done.

so you woudln't probably have come across teh maths or that particular
explanation.

Wrong again.

OK so you accept my explanation now?

Otherwise your actual words say that you HAVE come across my explanation
and its common knowledge, which again contradicts what you said earlier.

You must learn to post properly Rod. You really are not going to win
trolling arguments if you fall into every single elephant trap set for
you.

It just makes you look stupid and clumsy.

Microwaves bounce around inside the microwave oven.

yes, and the reason why they do is because the walls are made of metal
that is thick enough not to smoke.

They dont even get heated.

Well actually they do, just not very much ;-)

They dont get absorbed by the ends of the chicken drumsticks
that you have covered in foil just because they cant get thru the foil
and so whats under the foil doesnt get heated, and so doesnt burn.

correct, but the waves DO get absorbed by the *foil* SURFACE ...
and that's what MAKES the foil SURFACE a microwave reflector.

But there is no HEATING involved.

There is, again, some. Just not very much as nearly all the energy does
get reflected

It has circulating currents induced in it that set up an opposing EMF
that becomes the 'reflected wave'

That is why (in e classical model) reflection happens and not
absorption as it were, nevertheless nothing is a perfect reflector.
The energy that is lost - if its large enough, will heat the
'reflector' and destroy it.

Wrong, that foil does not get destroyed or even affected.

It would if you stuck it in front of a real he-magnetron on a military
radar set.

As it is it just gets a bit warm.


You still get conduction of the heat thru the bone from the part of the
drumstick that isnt covered in foil and so is heated by the microwaves.

BUT that current itself does heat the foil a bit

Nope.

Yes. Put a mirror in the sun. It still gets hot.

And the walls of the microwave oven dont.

They do, but its only a piddling 800W magnetron and the surface is a
relatively good conductor, and quite thick.

If you think there is no loss of energy and no heating and can prove that
the oven wall reflect 100% of the waves there's another Nobel prize
waiting for you.

But my oven walls and perfectly smooth superconductors.


Not as hot as a black plate, but it gets hot.

Because of the IR falling on it.

Exactly. IR ios very short waelength microwaves isn't it?

Same for any reflector .

Nope, not with the walls of the microwave oven.


You are a card Rod! I love watching you making an asshole of yourself.

and if the foil is thin enough...

The reason you get a spectacular light show is the very thin foil
getting vaporised by the currents that flow in the foil because its
an antenna.

if it absorbs no power than it wont - cant- get hot.

I never said it gets hot.

You are actually contradicting yourself Rod.

Nope.

Yes, because you said it absorbed power without getting hot and thats why
it vapourises!

Anyone who can make a metal vapour and strike arcs in it without it
getting hot is in for a second Noble prize after the superconducting
microwave walls.


Nothing to do with heat.

so how do you vaporise metal without heat, Rod?

With the current flowing in it.


And what does current flowing through a metal do Rod? What is Ohms law,
and what does it say? and where does the power lost in a resistor end up?


Theres a Nobel prize waitng for you

Nope.

Its a bit like saying you want see a voltage drop across a straight
piece of metal - well you wont until you have a larger enough
current and a small enough piece of metal and then you have a fuse.

Cut thats current, not heat.

I squared R, Rod.

It doent get hot.

It doe get hot, child


Do you have any basic knowledge of physics at all?

Yep.

Liar :-)


CD metallization is thin enough to not withstand the currents
needed to reflect the microwaves without fusing - that's all.

Yes, and its not heat, its currents.

Oh Rod...purlease.

Down on your knees, boy.
what for? I just farted in your general direction. Its all you are worth.

LOL, now c'mon, if (the plonker) Rodders himself can't believe he's the bees
knees he's errrrr, ****ed.
LMFAO. Bloody funny to watch tho. He knows all there is to know about
****-all but I'll betcha he has a T-shirt about camel shagging in the
Sahara.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....32331015efb66a

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
snip
Seriously, Roddy old bean, I'd quit right now if I were you (yes, I know i'm
not you), you're looking more stupid at every post and your anger is
increasing noticeably. Give it a rest, old son, you're prolly too old for
this kinda **** although I admit it's hilarious.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....32331015efb66a

brass monkey wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Rod Speed wrote
snip
Seriously, Roddy old bean, I'd quit right now if I were you (yes, I know i'm
not you), you're looking more stupid at every post and your anger is
increasing noticeably. Give it a rest, old son, you're prolly too old for
this kinda **** although I admit it's hilarious.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....32331015efb66a


we are hoping for an apoplectic fit...

He isn't on as much medication as Drivel.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:38:31 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

The reason you get a spectacular light show is the very thin foil getting
vaporised by the currents that flow in the foil because its an antenna.

Vaporised foil, anyone? Should add a kind of smokey barbeque flavour
to any meal!

MM

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

MM has clearly never put a plastic dish in a microwave. In fact it is
likely he knows as little about microwaves as he does about sex.

What I do know is that microwave ovens are designed for heating and
cooking food, not destroying CDs. This is something that you do not
appear to know.

Maybe you've tried mixing paint on that funny turntable inside? Or
used it as a lazy Susan when the other girls pop in for cakes and a
cuppa? Or drying out your pants when they, er, get a little damp?

MM