"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
funkyoldcortina wrote:
The battery can charge while the petrol engine is running - the engine
will run at an RPM suitable for maximum efficiency, not just enough RPM
to drive the wheels. "Spare" power at this RPM goes into recharging the
battery

There is no such thing as 'spare power' under these circumstances. The
only truly free energy in this context is that recovered instead of using
brakes.

Nope. The ecu senses when the engine has surplus power and uses this to
charge battery. That is why the Mk 3 Prius gets 72.4 mpg.

On 03/01/12 13:29, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/12 12:32, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...
On 26/12/11 11:31, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

It's common to give the very best MPG that can be achieved under ideal
conditions.

The Mk 3 Pirus get 75mpg in average driving. This is hard for senile
fools to
comprehend.

No, it doesn't.

But it will get about 50mpg without trying and 60mpg if you try hard. If
you do a lot of stop-start town driving you'll get significantly more.

The Mk 3 not Mk 2.

Yes, I'm talking about the Mk 3 as I drive one regularly (though it's not
mine or my company's).

Around central London they get approx 75mpg. Even 5th Gear confirmed that
saying 72.4mpg "average":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml2sPeCQIJw

They lauded the car on its eco credentials.

As I said, you do get better economy in stop-start driving. But central
London driving is not "average driving" as you put it above.

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/12 13:29, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/12 12:32, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...
On 26/12/11 11:31, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

It's common to give the very best MPG that can be achieved under
ideal
conditions.

The Mk 3 Pirus get 75mpg in average driving. This is hard for senile
fools to
comprehend.

No, it doesn't.

But it will get about 50mpg without trying and 60mpg if you try hard.
If
you do a lot of stop-start town driving you'll get significantly more.

The Mk 3 not Mk 2.

Yes, I'm talking about the Mk 3 as I drive one regularly (though it's
not
mine or my company's).

Around central London they get approx 75mpg. Even 5th Gear confirmed that
saying 72.4mpg "average":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml2sPeCQIJw

They lauded the car on its eco credentials.

As I said, you do get better economy in stop-start driving. But central
London driving is not "average driving" as you put it above.

For about 20% of the UKs population it is. Liverpool, Mcr, Brum, etc are not
much different these days.

The 1.8L, Mk 3 Prius has two major technical "engine" advances that improve
mileage:

a) Exhaust heated coolant - this accelerates warm-up to fuel efficient
modes. It also reduces the need to run the engine, to maintain coolant
temperature.

b) Recirculated, exhaust gas injection - this avoids having to run a rich
mixture at high power settings to preserve the catalytic converter.

This is only the engine. The Mk 3 has a larger battery set.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people talk
about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for town use.
And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller it isn't in the 75 mpg
ballpark.

Most of them are Mk 2s.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Yes, I'm talking about the Mk 3 as I drive one regularly (though it's
not mine or my company's).

Around central London they get approx 75mpg. Even 5th Gear confirmed
that saying 72.4mpg "average":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml2sPeCQIJw

They lauded the car on its eco credentials.

I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people talk
about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for town use.
And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There is no such thing as 'spare power' under these circumstances. The
only truly free energy in this context is that recovered instead of
using brakes.

Nope. The ecu senses when the engine has surplus power and uses this to
charge battery. That is why the Mk 3 Prius gets 72.4 mpg.

And when the battery is fully charged, what happens to this 'surplus
power'? Because either it is 'surplus' or it is needed.

I'm quite happy to be assured you don't know what surplus means.

--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor wrote:


a) Exhaust heated coolant - this accelerates warm-up to fuel efficient
modes. It also reduces the need to run the engine, to maintain coolant
temperature.

b) Recirculated, exhaust gas injection - this avoids having to run a rich
mixture at high power settings to preserve the catalytic converter.

Both used on conventional vehicles. The Pious appears to lack the latent
heat storage unit used in SAABs, so still missing a trick or two. Not
that this matters to a fool like you, you just trot out a few "facts"
but are unable to link those "facts" coherently or even relavently. As
usual, you're talking through your bottom but are too ****ing dim to
realise it.

As with your claims about MPG, pure fantasy on your part but your
stupidity doesn't allow you to see it.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people
talk about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for
town use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

Would you like a picture of my 3.5 litre V-8 trip computer showing 175 mpg?

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for town use.
And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller
it isn't in the 75 mpg ballpark.

The official UK fuel efficiency data for the Prius T3 is:
Urban 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US),
Extra Urban 76.4 mpg-imp (3.70 L/100 km; 63.6 mpg-US),
Combined 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US).[48

UK goes from 72.4mpg to 76.4mpg. 75mpg is about between the two.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor wrote:


a) Exhaust heated coolant - this accelerates warm-up to fuel efficient
modes. It also reduces the need to run the engine, to maintain coolant
temperature.

b) Recirculated, exhaust gas injection - this avoids having to run a rich
mixture at high power settings to preserve the catalytic converter.

Both used

You are a knobhead

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...

Forget the Prius, although an amazing ground-breaking car, the Volt's setup
will be the norm in a few years time. Range extenders using Wankel and
free-piston engines will be around.

The free-piston engine with a linear generator is being investigated by a
number of research groups, driven by the increasing interest in the hybrid
electric vehicle concept in the automotive industry.

The first free piston generator was patented in 1959, and since then, a
number of variations have been proposed. Examples include the Stelzer engine
and the Free Piston Power Pack manufactured by Pempek Systems based on a
German patent. These engines are mainly of the dual piston type, giving a
compact unit with high power-to-weight ratio. A challenge with this design
is to find an electric machine with sufficiently low weight, and control
challenges in the form of high cycle-to-cycle variations have been reported
for dual piston engines.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people
talk about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for
town use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

Would you like a picture of my 3.5 litre V-8 trip computer showing 175
mpg?

Yes, we are all into a laugh

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There is no such thing as 'spare power' under these circumstances. The
only truly free energy in this context is that recovered instead of
using brakes.

Nope. The ecu senses when the engine has surplus power and uses this to
charge battery. That is why the Mk 3 Prius gets 72.4 mpg.

And when the battery is fully charged, what happens to this 'surplus
power'? Because either it is 'surplus' or it is needed.

Senile one, the engine revs down and the electric motor cuts in. Duh!

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Nope. The ecu senses when the engine has surplus power and uses this to
charge battery. That is why the Mk 3 Prius gets 72.4 mpg.

And when the battery is fully charged, what happens to this 'surplus
power'? Because either it is 'surplus' or it is needed.

Senile one, the engine revs down and the electric motor cuts in. Duh!

So the 'power' it was generating wasn't surplus? If it were, it would 'rev
down'.

I'm quite happy to be assured you don't know what surplus means.

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor wrote:

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

Six miles, that was the distance travelled and no one can tell from that
display what sort of terrain the distance was travelled over.

I've had a 4.0 litre 4x4 achieve over 70mpg over a longer distance. From
Airolo to Biasca, a distance of 24 miles, do you think[1] that means
that the 4x4 can normally achieve 70mpg+?

Here's free clue bozo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XxB6ma7qu8

Note that using hypermiling techniques, this driver is getting no better
than 57mpg at an average speed of 29mph.

Using the same techniques it's possible to hypermile conventional
engined cars in excess of 90mpg. The Fiar 500 multi-air eco that I was
driving last week achieved 69 mpg over a 360 mile drive and I really
wasn't trying to economise. FFS shut your pie hole and come back when
your brain starts working.


[1] The term is used loosely, we both know that you don't.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people
talk about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for
town use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

Would you like a picture of my 3.5 litre V-8 trip computer showing 175 mpg?

I note that on one of the Pious owners forums a driver is whinging that
he can only achieve 42 mpg in his (Mark III) Pious. The advice from the
other forum members included "Drive for 5 minutes to get the car warmed
up and then reset the mpg button." These dopes are as moronic as Drivel.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef7c05b

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor wrote:

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

Six miles, that was the distance travelled and no one can tell from that
display

The official UK fuel efficiency data for the Prius T3 is:
Urban 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US),
Extra Urban 76.4 mpg-imp (3.70 L/100 km; 63.6 mpg-US),
Combined 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US).[48

UK goes from 72.4mpg to 76.4mpg. 75mpg is about between the two.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Nope. The ecu senses when the engine has surplus power and uses this
to
charge battery. That is why the Mk 3 Prius gets 72.4 mpg.

And when the battery is fully charged, what happens to this 'surplus
power'? Because either it is 'surplus' or it is needed.

Senile one, the engine revs down and the electric motor cuts in. Duh!

So the 'power' it was generating wasn't surplus?

It was by the IC engines. It was captured and given back off.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

I note that on one of the Pious owners forums a driver is whinging that
he can only achieve 42 mpg in his (Mark III) Pious.

He probably drives it around a track like that stupid Clarkson.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

I note that on one of the

Volvo - 124 mpg hybrid
http://www.gizmag.com/volvo-v60-plug...-geneva/17712/

Maybe they are all making this up.

Doctor wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people
talk about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for
town use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

Would you like a picture of my 3.5 litre V-8 trip computer showing 175
mpg?

Yes, we are all into a laugh

Here you go Bozo, a picture of a BMW M3 getting 100mpg.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/0649e

That beats your stupid Prius, eh?

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

I note that on one of the

Volvo - 124 mpg hybrid
http://www.gizmag.com/volvo-v60-plug...-geneva/17712/

Maybe they are all making this up.

At last you seem to be learning.

--
*Why isn't there mouse-flavoured cat food?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Steve Firth wrote:

Doctor wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people
talk about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for
town use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_020.jpg

74.4mpg - that was a pic of the Prius display which is US and a smaller
gallon.

Would you like a picture of my 3.5 litre V-8 trip computer showing 175
mpg?

Yes, we are all into a laugh

Here you go Bozo, a picture of a BMW M3 getting 100mpg.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/0649e

That beats your stupid Prius, eh?

Damn that Free Image Hosting, it seems to have used a photo of Drivel's
boyfriend instead of a BMW.

Here you go Drivel

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...wm3100mpg.png/

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..

a picture of a BMW M3 getting 100mpg.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/0649e

Brmmm, brum, brummmmmmmm......Jermey Clarkson. Bruuuuuuuummmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm

Hornby trains as well.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

I note that on one of the

Volvo - 124 mpg hybrid
http://www.gizmag.com/volvo-v60-plug...-geneva/17712/

Maybe they are all making this up.

At last you seem to be learning.

At 124mpg and 72.4 mpg I learn well.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

Here you go Drivel

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...wm3100mpg.png/

Brmmm, brum, brummmmmmmm......Jermey Clarkson. Bruuuuuuuummmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm

Hornby trains as well

Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm
Brummmmmmmm

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for town use.
And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller
it isn't in the 75 mpg ballpark.

The official UK fuel efficiency data for the Prius T3 is:
Urban 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US),
Extra Urban 76.4 mpg-imp (3.70 L/100 km; 63.6 mpg-US),
Combined 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US).[48

But just exactly who drives according to any of the Urban/Extra Urban
cycles?
They assume you start with a full battery and don't care if its flat at the
end.
Its pretty easy to get extra mpg if you have another source of energy that
you don't have to measure as part of the test.


UK goes from 72.4mpg to 76.4mpg. 75mpg is about between the two.

On 02/01/2012 18:54, harry wrote:
You have a point there. But the question was about the recharge of
"supercapacitors" which is allegedly wear 100% efficient.

Supercapacitors I have no experience of. However the motors and
generators definitely lose a few percent - although probably less than
the amounts I quoted.

Andy

On 03/01/2012 14:28, Doctor Drivel wrote:
b) Recirculated, exhaust gas injection - this avoids having to run a
rich mixture at high power settings to preserve the catalytic converter.

AFAIK every mdern petrol engine has EGR.

Perhaps I should ask Bob Wilson (whose post you seem to have copied)
what's special about the Prius.

BTW for everyone this image

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/MPG_010.jpg

shows the distribution of MPG from some American users. Looks like less
than 10% of drivers of the _latest_ model get over 60MP(US)G.

Andy

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:29:53 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people talk
about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for town
use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller it isn't in the
75 mpg ballpark.

Most of them are Mk 2s.

Are you a Mk 2?

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:42:32 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Nope. The ecu senses when the engine has surplus power and uses this to
charge battery. That is why the Mk 3 Prius gets 72.4 mpg.

And when the battery is fully charged, what happens to this 'surplus
power'? Because either it is 'surplus' or it is needed.

It gets dumped back into the grid, via a very long extension cable. And a
supercap.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for town use.
And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller
it isn't in the 75 mpg ballpark.

The official UK fuel efficiency data for the Prius T3 is:
Urban 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US),
Extra Urban 76.4 mpg-imp (3.70 L/100 km; 63.6 mpg-US),
Combined 72.4 mpg-imp (3.90 L/100 km; 60.3 mpg-US).[48

But just exactly who drives according to any of the Urban/Extra Urban
cycles?

Obviously not you.

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
On 02/01/2012 18:54, harry wrote:
You have a point there. But the question was about the recharge of
"supercapacitors" which is allegedly wear 100% efficient.

Supercapacitors I have no experience of. However the motors and
generators definitely lose a few percent - although probably less than the
amounts I quoted.

Supercapacitors will outlast a car

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:29:53 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people talk
about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for town
use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller it isn't in the
75 mpg ballpark.

Most of them are Mk 2s.

Are you a Mk 2?

I am a Mk 99.

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:42:32 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Nope. The ecu senses when the engine has surplus power and uses this to
charge battery. That is why the Mk 3 Prius gets 72.4 mpg.

And when the battery is fully charged, what happens to this 'surplus
power'? Because either it is 'surplus' or it is needed.

It gets dumped back into the grid, via a very long extension cable. And a
supercap.

That is fantastic indeed.

In article m,
dennis@home wrote:
But just exactly who drives according to any of the Urban/Extra Urban
cycles? They assume you start with a full battery and don't care if its
flat at the end. Its pretty easy to get extra mpg if you have another
source of energy that you don't have to measure as part of the test.

Eggzactly. The test simply runs the vehicle on a rolling road to the
prescribed start stop of the test and checks the amount of petrol or
diesel used. It takes no account of the energy supplied by the batteries
via the electric motor. The tests were finalised before hybrids were
around. If it ran on batteries only during this test it would give
infinite MPG...

--
*Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 23:08:05 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:29:53 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people
talk about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for
town use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller it isn't
in the 75 mpg ballpark.

Most of them are Mk 2s.

Are you a Mk 2?

I am a Mk 99.

There are 98 previous versions that are actually worse?

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Are you a Mk 2?

I am a Mk 99.

There are 98 previous versions that are actually worse?

No, they were *better*. Drivel is working towards a standard of
incompetence and madness.

Crikey. Don't want to be around when he qualifies.

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Are you a Mk 2?
I am a Mk 99.
There are 98 previous versions that are actually worse?

No, they were *better*. Drivel is working towards a standard of
incompetence and madness.

Crikey. Don't want to be around when he qualifies.

You are, of course, sure that when he says Mk.99, he isn't referring to
his year of manufacture?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 23:08:05 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:29:53 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I'm surprised you've never read the Prius Forum. Where real people
talk about their real cars. In the US, about 40 mpg is the norm for
town use. And even allowing for the US gallon being smaller it isn't
in the 75 mpg ballpark.

Most of them are Mk 2s.

Are you a Mk 2?

I am a Mk 99.

There are 98 previous versions that are actually worse?

They all work up to the gold we have.