"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
[snip]

Normal road use and testing doesn't put anywhere near as much
stress on cars as TG do,

Not much point in advertising a sports car which has to be treated gently.

However, it's worth remembering the original Autocar road test of the
Prius. Over 600 miles of testing on all sorts of normal roads, its average
mpg was in the low 20s. Toyota weren't happy.

Also the TopGear caning of a Prius around their test track. A BMW 320d was
faster, gave better mpg and a much longer range than the Pious.

I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Nonsense. Heavy trucks roll down hills and up the other side very well.

Yet another example to prove you can't even drive.

Trucks on a motorway run at a constant governed speed. If they haven't got
enough power, they slow down on hills. Hence crawler lanes. Any kinetic
energy can safely be ignored in practice.

--
*Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It's a fossil fuelled engine driving a generator that you use to
replace the power you draw from the battery. A.K.A. a hybrid drive
train.

It is NOT a hybrid. It is not termed as one, as the engine is detached
mechanically from the driving wheels.

The range extender engines runs at the most economic "sweet spot". A
genny engines is lighter.

That is the same sort of principle as the Pious. Which is fine provided
you don't exceed the power produced at that sweet spot. Once you do, the
efficiency goes out the window. With a genny, even more so. It will be
most efficient when running at maximum output.

This is the main reason why these vehicles produce excellent mpg for
government tests, but entirely different (and worse) in real world
driving. Of course if you drive them with only economy in mind they can be
quite good. But then so are all modern cars.

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The Tesla website claims 200 kilometres, but what does 33% matter. Oh,
yes, two sixteen hour recharging stops instead of one on a run from London
to Edinburgh. You could, of course, put the Tesla onto a train (If the
service still ran, that is) and sleep all the way.

Dork..."200 miles. More with then latest batteries."

Try doing some research. The Tesla does not have a 200 mile range at
motorway speeds.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
harry wrote:
Kinetic energy stored as vehicle momentum is of no use for accelerating
the vehicle. At the time you need it it isn't there.

It's also of no use for climbing hills - the extra weight exactly
cancels out the extra KE.

In fact I can't think of a use for extra mass at all. Except in a road
roller.

Andy

But it can be used for charging batteries. Which is exactly what
happens in electric cars. In ICE cars, it is lost.
Bad news during cornering though.

I don't know where you've been, but lots of conventional IC engined cars
now use their alternator to store energy when slowing.

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
If, as is claimed, there was massive successful intimidation, surely
those wimps who couldn't stand up for themselves would simply stay
away from the meeting?

Those who did stand up for themselves in King Arthur's. Coal War
continue to suffer abuse and ostracism to this day. Calling those who
didn't want to see their families suffering because the bread winner was
"a scab" wimps shows a massive lack of understanding on your part or a
massive dose of cynicism if you were actually aware of how dissenters
within the unions are treated.

Trying to continue being that bread winner didn't do them much good, now,
did it - given the mines were all closed? They hoped in vain that toadying
up to Thatcher would cause her to look after them as individuals. Which of
course didn't happen. I wonder if they'd have done the same again with the
benefit of hindsight.

Bricks through your window on a daily basis tend to cause even strong
independent individuals to toe the line.

Probably thrown by Mail reporters to make a good story.

--
*Does fuzzy logic tickle? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

Indeed. The Pious was made for town use - and is useless on the open road.
Dribble is known for his one size fits all blinkered attitude regardless
of topic. And never more obvious than now.

--
*If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...

You know as well as I do that "emergency legislation" is generally a recipe
for disaster in then long run. All legislation needs to be considered
properly otherwise it falls foul of the "Law of Unintended Consequences".

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...


That's because the Tories are the bankers' friend. One *might* have expected
different from Browm (cue pigs again)

--
Tim Watts

In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article , Doctor Drivel
wrote:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-12-30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Strange. My memory gives a constantly rising standard of living and
financial stability for much of the 15 years or so of the last labour
government.

Funded entirely by debt, leading to ...
That is tripe spouted by brainwashed Tory voting fool.
Labour inherited a basket case on 1997. The Tories inherited pretty
well the strongest economy in the Western world.

Stuff and nonsense. In 1997, inflation was at 2.5% and had been for at
least three years. Unemployment was falling fast. Source for both of
these? The Economist.

YEAR : Surplus/deficit, £m : Party in power
1991 -8,142 Con
1992 -29,259 Con
1993 -40,576 Con
1994 -36,268 Con
1995 -28,232 Con
1996 -22,749 Con
1997 -11,246 Lab
1998 6,903 Lab
1999 17,474 Lab
2000 21,489 Lab
2001 19,646 Lab

So your figures stop on 2001. Any particular reason for that - like
huge deficits building up from 2002 perhaps?

So far (unless I missed it) PFI has not been mentioned. ISTM that this
is *off the books* expenditure and ought to be included in GB's record.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...

I'm about halfway through *whoops* by Lancaster. If I ever understand
his explanation I'll know why serious bankers considered they had found
a *risk free* source of profit.

Didn't this relaxation start with John Major? And wasn't Tony Blair just
as guilty of cosying up to the city? If you create employment by growing
the civil service surely you have to look after your income stream to
fund it?

regards


--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
wrote:


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Not the dire position the country is now in. Wonder just how
long Cameron will carry on blaming everyone else for this?

Yeabut other bits of Europe aren't in that good a condition are they
Dave?..

Brown left the country in a better position than others and this fool
Cameron takes credit. But he has made millions unemployed in only 18
months.

Even by your standards, Drivel, that is ********.

Brown failed to regulate the banks

He did try but was slagged by the Tories and the City who shouted Daily Mail
slogans like "Nanny State"

Get out of Cloud Toryland. The real world is nice.

"harry" wrote in message
...

This one is total brainwashed idiot. The constantly rising standard of
living was because of the economic growth created.

Now we will all have to pay for the half wits that govern us called the
Tories - who are only interested in maintaining a ruling class strata
which
this idiot is not a part of.

There was no "economic growth". Just casino banking. Creating fake
money but no wealth. The countries industrial base withered. As did
education and society while Nl experimented with social engineering.
Total incompetance by Bliar and Brown.


Fool, the standard of living rose dramatically in Labours term. Unemployment
was zero. You have no idea of economics whatsoever and a senile old fool.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I suspect you think that Harold Macmillan said it about Thatcher. You
are
wrong. Macmillan did not say it at all,

Fool, he DID!!!!! He said it on breakfast TV at the time. I saw it.

You're a liar.

Macmillan said it!!!!!! You fool.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...

Those who did stand up for themselves in King Arthur's. Coal War continue
to suffer abuse and ostracism to this day.

Stand up for themselves? You crap on their own. A scab is a scab and I
hope they pay all their lives.

Tim Lamb wrote:

So far (unless I missed it) PFI has not been mentioned. ISTM that this
is *off the books* expenditure and ought to be included in GB's record.

Also QE, another handy way of "magicing" money into the economy (granted
the coalition have continued with new tranches), will the BoE ever buy
back all the bonds it bought with QE funds? If so won't that hurt the
economy later to the same degree it's supposed to have helped it?

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...

I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

It wasn't designed to chase across the USA. Mine does 65mpg. The Mk 3 does
75mpg and is Smoooooooooooth and goes Zooooooooooom

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Nonsense. Heavy trucks roll down hills and up the other side very well.

Yet another example to prove you can't even drive.

Trucks on a motorway

Once again senile one. "Heavy trucks roll down hills and up the other side
very well."

In article ,
charles wrote:
And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...

You know as well as I do that "emergency legislation" is generally a
recipe for disaster in then long run. All legislation needs to be
considered properly otherwise it falls foul of the "Law of Unintended
Consequences".

Oh indeed. But they've had long enough now to draught such legislation.
Especially since they should have been preparing for it while in
opposition - if they had any intention of seriously regulating banks etc
which of course they don't.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It's a fossil fuelled engine driving a generator that you use to
replace the power you draw from the battery. A.K.A. a hybrid drive
train.

It is NOT a hybrid. It is not termed as one, as the engine is detached
mechanically from the driving wheels.

The range extender engines runs at the most economic "sweet spot". A
genny engines is lighter.

That is the same sort of principle as the Pious.

NOT AT ALL. The range extender is driven by electric motors only. The genny
is mechanically disconnected from the driving wheels.

Be prepared for Proton (Lotus) to introduce one, quite cheaply.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The Tesla website claims 200 kilometres, but what does 33% matter. Oh,
yes, two sixteen hour recharging stops instead of one on a run from
London
to Edinburgh. You could, of course, put the Tesla onto a train (If the
service still ran, that is) and sleep all the way.

Dork..."200 miles. More with then latest batteries."

Try doing some research.

Senikle one, again...."200 miles. More with the latest batteries."

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...


That's because the Tories are the bankers' friend. One *might* have
expected different from Browm (cue pigs again)

The difference between nulabour and the present government in such things
is so tiny you'd need a microscope to find it. Which is going to cause big
problems with the liberal side of the coalition sooner rather than later.

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...

The Tories have SWEET FA to prevent this debacle re-occurring. Clueless,
self-serving, ****s.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
Kinetic energy stored as vehicle momentum is of no use for accelerating
the vehicle. At the time you need it it isn't there.

It's also of no use for climbing hills - the extra weight exactly
cancels out the extra KE.

In fact I can't think of a use for extra mass at all. Except in a road
roller.

Andy

But it can be used for charging batteries. Which is exactly what
happens in electric cars. In ICE cars, it is lost.
Bad news during cornering though.

I don't know where you've been, but lots of conventional IC engined cars
now use their alternator to store energy when slowing.

No they dont.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
harry wrote:
Kinetic energy stored as vehicle momentum is of no use for accelerating
the vehicle. At the time you need it it isn't there.

It's also of no use for climbing hills - the extra weight exactly
cancels out the extra KE.

In fact I can't think of a use for extra mass at all. Except in a road
roller.

Andy

But it can be used for charging batteries. Which is exactly what
happens in electric cars. In ICE cars, it is lost.
Bad news during cornering though.

I don't know where you've been, but lots of conventional IC engined cars
now use their alternator to store energy when slowing.

Lots? A few conning BMWs to try to make out they are "eco". A normal car
does than anyhow. BMW put a clutch in the alternator or something trivial,
so that the alternator only charges on the engine over-run claiming it was
hybrid. Yep they did.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

Indeed. The Pious was made for town use - and is useless on the open road.

Senile one, it does 100mph and can accelerate with the rest of them. You are
a fool.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...

You know as well as I do that "emergency legislation" is generally a
recipe
for disaster in then long run. All legislation needs to be considered
properly otherwise it falls foul of the "Law of Unintended Consequences".

Using Geonomics with Land Valuation Taxation at its core with solve most.
The hole where the thieves operated must be plugged. WE must move back to
manufacturing to keep a stable and balanced economy.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Brown failed to regulate the banks and Blair dissappeared up his own
arse with his desire to become an "international statesman" (ie get
involved in everyone's wars).

And where is the emergency legislation brought in immediately by the
Tories to regulate the banks? Pigs might sooner fly...

I'm about halfway through *whoops* by Lancaster.

Read the books by Fred Harrison. He is bang on to the root cause points.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The Tesla website claims 200 kilometres, but what does 33% matter. Oh,
yes, two sixteen hour recharging stops instead of one on a run from London
to Edinburgh. You could, of course, put the Tesla onto a train (If the
service still ran, that is) and sleep all the way.

Dork..."200 miles. More with then latest batteries."

Try doing some research. The Tesla does not have a 200 mile range at
motorway speeds.

The maximum distance per charge for a Tesla is set at a speed of 25mph.
that would get the driver arrested or killed on any UK motorway. Tesla will
no longer accept orders for new cars showing that perhaps all is not well.

A Tesla Roadster costs £87,000 for a two seater car with no luggage space.
The socket to wheel efficiency of the Tesla is just 88% which is also
remarkably poor. Only a complete jerk would consider it viable.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
If, as is claimed, there was massive successful intimidation, surely
those wimps who couldn't stand up for themselves would simply stay
away from the meeting?

Those who did stand up for themselves in King Arthur's. Coal War
continue to suffer abuse and ostracism to this day. Calling those who
didn't want to see their families suffering because the bread winner was
"a scab" wimps shows a massive lack of understanding on your part or a
massive dose of cynicism if you were actually aware of how dissenters
within the unions are treated.

Trying to continue being that bread winner didn't do them much good, now,
did it - given the mines were all closed? They hoped in vain that toadying
up to Thatcher would cause her to look after them as individuals. Which of
course didn't happen. I wonder if they'd have done the same again with the
benefit of hindsight.

Bricks through your window on a daily basis tend to cause even strong
independent individuals to toe the line.

Probably thrown by Mail reporters to make a good story.

You may want to get your head out of the sand and smell the coffee from
time to time.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...

I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

It wasn't designed to chase across the USA. Mine does 65mpg. The Mk 3
does 75mpg and is Smoooooooooooth and goes Zooooooooooom

Liar.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...

Those who did stand up for themselves in King Arthur's. Coal War continue
to suffer abuse and ostracism to this day.

Stand up for themselves? You crap on their own. A scab is a scab and I
hope they pay all their lives.

There you go Mr Plowman. That's an example of the sort of brainless ****
who joins a union. Mean, vicious, petty minded and intellectually
subnormal.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I suspect you think that Harold Macmillan said it about Thatcher. You are
wrong. Macmillan did not say it at all,

Fool, he DID!!!!! He said it on breakfast TV at the time. I saw it.

You're a liar. You have cut Macmillans actual words from my reply. You
did not mark the edit that you made, making your lie deliberate and calculated.
[unmarked deletion reinstated]

Macmillan said it!!!!!! You fool.

Liar

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...

I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

It wasn't designed to chase across the USA. Mine does 65mpg. The Mk 3
does 75mpg and is Smoooooooooooth and goes Zooooooooooom

Liar.

You are jealous. Mine does 65mpg. The Mk 3 does 75mpg and is
Smoooooooooooth and goes Zooooooooooom

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
If, as is claimed, there was massive successful intimidation, surely
those wimps who couldn't stand up for themselves would simply stay
away from the meeting?

Those who did stand up for themselves in King Arthur's. Coal War
continue to suffer abuse and ostracism to this day. Calling those who
didn't want to see their families suffering because the bread winner was
"a scab" wimps shows a massive lack of understanding on your part or a
massive dose of cynicism if you were actually aware of how dissenters
within the unions are treated.

Trying to continue being that bread winner didn't do them much good, now,
did it - given the mines were all closed? They hoped in vain that
toadying
up to Thatcher would cause her to look after them as individuals. Which
of
course didn't happen. I wonder if they'd have done the same again with
the
benefit of hindsight.

Bricks through your window on a daily basis tend to cause even strong
independent individuals to toe the line.

Probably thrown by Mail reporters to make a good story.

You may want to get your head out of the sand and smell the coffee from
time to time.

Coffee in the Daily Mail news room?

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I suspect you think that Harold Macmillan said it about Thatcher. You
are
wrong. Macmillan did not say it at all,

Fool, he DID!!!!! He said it on breakfast TV at the time. I saw it.

You're a liar. You have cut Macmillans actual words from my reply. You
did not mark the edit that you made, making your lie deliberate and
calculated.
[unmarked deletion reinstated]

Macmillan said it!!!!!! You fool.

Liar

Macmillan said it!!!!!! You fool.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
hugh wrote:
In message ,
lid writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...

about the mass meetings of the 60s and early seventies and voting
was by show of hands.

Which was better than the first past the post system we have for
Westminster. All that does is ensure the unrepresentative Tories get
into power.
Funny, I seem to remember a few Labour governments over the last 70
years.
The electorate had the opportunity to change the system recently and
the result was a resounding no. I suppose you will insist they are all
idiots but that's universal suffrage for you.

Labour is for losers: This is the first lesson.

Says our snotty uni man.

Careful drivel - your snobbery is showing again.

The snobbery is the other way. You can read the conditioned idiot like
book.

In article -
september.org, Steve Firth scribeth thus
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
[snip]

Normal road use and testing doesn't put anywhere near as much
stress on cars as TG do,

Not much point in advertising a sports car which has to be treated gently.

However, it's worth remembering the original Autocar road test of the
Prius. Over 600 miles of testing on all sorts of normal roads, its average
mpg was in the low 20s. Toyota weren't happy.

Also the TopGear caning of a Prius around their test track. A BMW 320d was
faster, gave better mpg and a much longer range than the Pious.

I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

I think that people don't have much appreciation just how much "energy"
there is in a gallon of petrol. And just how much energy it takes to
shove a motor car of any decent size around.....
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I also recall one of the car comics doing a cost-to-coast US trip in a
Pious. The American chase car did better mpg.

It wasn't designed to chase across the USA.

The chase car wasn't designed to chase?

If you mean the Pious, just what was it designed for, apart from posing
with in LA?

--
*You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.