Arfa Daily wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
Andy Burns wrote:
D.M.Chapman wrote:

Proper cherry coke as well please (coke with proper cherry syrup)

Bleaurgh!

I've never liked tea or coffee, in fact the only hot drink I have is
an ocassional (maybe once every couple of months) hot chocolate.
However I have consumed, on average, around 10 cans of Coke per day
for the last 36 years and can absolutely concur with your statement
Andy. Cherry Coke (for that matter, anything cherry), along with
vegetables, is the spawn of Satan himself!!! :-)


Blimey ! I thought my missus was bad at 6 - 8 cans of diet coke a day
(and little else other than the occasional cup of tea so weak it
looks like cat's ****) but you sir, have the prize at 10 cans a day
!! :-)
Arfa

Thank you sir - did I win a burger?? :-)

On Sun, 22 May 2011 17:11:25 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

"John" wrote in message
...
I've never liked tea or coffee, in fact the only hot drink I have is an
ocassional (maybe once every couple of months) hot chocolate. However I
have consumed, on average, around 10 cans of Coke per day for the last
36 years and can absolutely concur with your statement Andy. Cherry
Coke (for that matter, anything cherry), along with vegetables, is the
spawn of Satan himself!!! :-)


Blimey ! I thought my missus was bad at 6 - 8 cans of diet coke a day
(and little else other than the occasional cup of tea so weak it looks
like cat's ****) but you sir, have the prize at 10 cans a day !! :-)

With me, it's coffee. At university I was on 11 pints a day. I've cut
down a bit now..only about 6-7 pints.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 22/05/2011 17:11, Arfa Daily wrote:


"John" wrote in message
I've never liked tea or coffee, in fact the only hot drink I have is
an ocassional (maybe once every couple of months) hot chocolate.
However I have consumed, on average, around 10 cans of Coke per day
for the last 36 years and can absolutely concur with your statement
Andy. Cherry Coke (for that matter, anything cherry), along with
vegetables, is the spawn of Satan himself!!! :-)


Blimey ! I thought my missus was bad at 6 - 8 cans of diet coke a day
(and little else other than the occasional cup of tea so weak it looks
like cat's ****) but you sir, have the prize at 10 cans a day !! :-)

10 x 330ml = 3.3 lt. Wow.

Heh, I'm actually a 2 lt bottle of Diet Coke a day addict.

Not quite there yet, but wondering if I should get the Coke lorry to
make pallet deliveries direct at my doorstep. I do save a zillion points
on CokeZone a month.

yeah, I should stop.... but, just one more, one more...

It's the choice between Ahhhhh and me falling asleep...

--
Adrian CokeHead

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


It is essential that children are catered for. Part of our new venture,
is also a milkshake bar. We had this in both of our cafes, and it
provided an extremely good revenue stream for us, and was much loved by
the kids. With the 'American' theme of the new place, it fits very well
into the overall scheme.

Are you goign to be doing decent icecreams?

I keep looking out for places that will decent things like banana
splits, knickerbocker glories, sundaes etc.

Hard to find places that does those now.

--
Chris French

On 22/05/2011 17:01, John wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
D.M.Chapman wrote:

Proper cherry coke as well please (coke with proper cherry syrup)

Bleaurgh!

I've never liked tea or coffee, in fact the only hot drink I have is an
ocassional (maybe once every couple of months) hot chocolate. However I have
consumed, on average, around 10 cans of Coke per day for the last 36 years
and can absolutely concur with your statement Andy. Cherry Coke (for that
matter, anything cherry), along with vegetables, is the spawn of Satan
himself!!! :-)



Is that full-sugar coke?

Good Effort.

You really need to work on that type-2 diabetes, it's not going to
happen by itself, you know...


--
Ron

On May 22, 4:28*pm, dmc@puffin. (D.M.Chapman) wrote:

Dr Pepper or Cherry coke all the way


Don't forget Dandelion & Burdock!

On May 22, 6:42*pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Anti-bacterial properties breed resistant strains. Surfaces that can be
completely cleaned of bacteria do not.


You're worrying about nothing. How many bugs are resistant to bleach
or peracetic acid? Use whichever you prefer, but don't assume plastic
is intrinsically safer. It's not. If you really want to worry about
something, worry about the staff not washing their hands after
scratching their knackers!

I've never bought anything from MickyD's, all they've had from me is
MickyPees and MickyPoos.....


"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 May 2011 02:04:37 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

As much consideration as possible has gone into the business model and
projections, and we are confident, given the fact that we have had
successful family run food businesses for many years, that we can make
this
work. Of course, we don't have a crystal ball, and it could all go pear
shaped. In a few weeks when get the place open, we'll see, I guess. I'll
let
you all know how it's going .... ! :-)

Arfa

Yes, please keep us informed. The quality would be of interest, as I like
burgers but am wary of the crapp in McDeadThings etc. If the new place
isn't
too far I'll have a ride and call in (I'm S. Northants - are you around
Earls Barton way?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Arfa Daily wrote:

Tonight, we went out to eat at a local TGIs. They too use CAB burgers, and
chargrill them. They are on the same complex as a Micky D's, a KFC and a BK,
but they do not have any problem selling their burgers. The place was
packed, and almost everyone was eating burgers, so we are confident that
there is a demand for our product. Also, we have stayed in touch with many
of our previous regular customers, and they all cannot wait for us to open.

If you get time and the chance, I suggest a bit of research at Hamburger
Union. I consider that they offer a decent burger for a reasonable
price, despite being in rip-off London. Certainly way better than
anything in the crapital since Gatsbys closed down.

I wish you success. However when it comes to providing decent food at
reasonable prices I find that the great British public doesn't give a
****, as witness the comments here about how great Aldi etc are and what
overpriced ****e olive oil fresh and direct from the farm must be. If
you were to serve up dead dog in a trough with plenty of economy baked
beans as a side dish, you'd have plenty of takers.

WTF are "CAB" burgers BTW? Hamburger Union do that peculiar thing of
taking steak and mincing it, is that what you mean or do you refer to
some frozen patty of Cow's Arse Burger?

On 22 May,
David Paste wrote:

You're worrying about nothing. How many bugs are resistant to bleach
or peracetic acid? Use whichever you prefer, but don't assume plastic
is intrinsically safer. It's not. If you really want to worry about
something, worry about the staff not washing their hands after
scratching their knackers!

That's nothing to worry about. Scratching the arse is another matter.


--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On 22 May,
Huge wrote:

Sarsparilla (sp?), isn't it? Vile, anyhow.

Nothing wrong with it. Apart from its availability these days.


--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

Adrian C wrote:
On 22/05/2011 17:11, Arfa Daily wrote:


"John" wrote in message
I've never liked tea or coffee, in fact the only hot drink I have is
an ocassional (maybe once every couple of months) hot chocolate.
However I have consumed, on average, around 10 cans of Coke per day
for the last 36 years and can absolutely concur with your statement
Andy. Cherry Coke (for that matter, anything cherry), along with
vegetables, is the spawn of Satan himself!!! :-)


Blimey ! I thought my missus was bad at 6 - 8 cans of diet coke a day
(and little else other than the occasional cup of tea so weak it
looks like cat's ****) but you sir, have the prize at 10 cans a day
!! :-)

10 x 330ml = 3.3 lt. Wow.

Heh, I'm actually a 2 lt bottle of Diet Coke a day addict.

I don't like the taste that the plastic bottles impart to the Coke, so
that's why I do the cans :-)

Not quite there yet, but wondering if I should get the Coke lorry to
make pallet deliveries direct at my doorstep. I do save a zillion
points on CokeZone a month.

yeah, I should stop.... but, just one more, one more...

It's the choice between Ahhhhh and me falling asleep...

Ron Lowe wrote:
On 22/05/2011 17:01, John wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
D.M.Chapman wrote:

Proper cherry coke as well please (coke with proper cherry syrup)

Bleaurgh!

I've never liked tea or coffee, in fact the only hot drink I have is
an ocassional (maybe once every couple of months) hot chocolate.
However I have consumed, on average, around 10 cans of Coke per day
for the last 36 years and can absolutely concur with your statement
Andy. Cherry Coke (for that matter, anything cherry), along with
vegetables, is the spawn of Satan himself!!! :-)



Is that full-sugar coke?

Absolutely!!! None of this wussy, horrible tasting diet stuff for me, it's
got a _horrible_ taste to it.

Good Effort.

You really need to work on that type-2 diabetes, it's not going to
happen by itself, you know...

I believe my body has adapted to it - probably do more harm than good if I
were to change my habits now. Might be a different ball game if I just
started drinking 10 cans a day now at the age of 53 though. Actually, as I'm
getting older I'm getting a sweeter tooth. If you buy wine at supermarkets
you'll know that they usually have a numbering system, with 1 being the
dryest (driest?) and 9 being the sweetest - I never drink anything below a 7
:-)

Steve Firth wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:

Tonight, we went out to eat at a local TGIs. They too use CAB
burgers, and chargrill them. They are on the same complex as a Micky
D's, a KFC and a BK, but they do not have any problem selling their
burgers. The place was packed, and almost everyone was eating
burgers, so we are confident that there is a demand for our product.
Also, we have stayed in touch with many of our previous regular
customers, and they all cannot wait for us to open.

If you get time and the chance, I suggest a bit of research at
Hamburger Union. I consider that they offer a decent burger for a
reasonable price, despite being in rip-off London. Certainly way
better than anything in the crapital since Gatsbys closed down.

I wish you success. However when it comes to providing decent food at
reasonable prices I find that the great British public doesn't give a
****, as witness the comments here about how great Aldi etc are and
what overpriced ****e olive oil fresh and direct from the farm must
be. If you were to serve up dead dog in a trough with plenty of
economy baked beans as a side dish, you'd have plenty of takers.

WTF are "CAB" burgers BTW? Hamburger Union do that peculiar thing of
taking steak and mincing it, is that what you mean or do you refer to
some frozen patty of Cow's Arse Burger?

CAB is explained in earlier posts - read them.

"John" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
Andy Burns wrote:
D.M.Chapman wrote:

Proper cherry coke as well please (coke with proper cherry syrup)

Bleaurgh!

I've never liked tea or coffee, in fact the only hot drink I have is
an ocassional (maybe once every couple of months) hot chocolate.
However I have consumed, on average, around 10 cans of Coke per day
for the last 36 years and can absolutely concur with your statement
Andy. Cherry Coke (for that matter, anything cherry), along with
vegetables, is the spawn of Satan himself!!! :-)


Blimey ! I thought my missus was bad at 6 - 8 cans of diet coke a day
(and little else other than the occasional cup of tea so weak it
looks like cat's ****) but you sir, have the prize at 10 cans a day
!! :-)
Arfa

Thank you sir - did I win a burger?? :-)


Indeed you did. Call in to collect your prize !

Arfa

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
On 22/05/2011 13:36, Arfa Daily wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
...
Whats a CAB burger? Google only comes up with references to the Bobs
Burgers TV show.

...
CAB is "Certified Angus Beef".

Which meant nothing to me until I looked it up. Nevertheless, it is still
a burger, which I will only eat if I've made it myself. The one exception
used to be a restaurant where you could see the food being prepared and
they made a very good burger. The current owner uses wooden boards instead
of plates, which I view as microbiologically suspect, so I no longer eat
there.

Colin Bignell

Our cooking area is totally open to view, as were the prep areas in both our
cafes. Wouldn't have it any other way. I think that the buying public should
be able to see how their food is being prepared, cooked, and generally
handled.

Arfa

On 22/05/2011 21:08, David Paste wrote:
On May 22, 6:42 pm, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Anti-bacterial properties breed resistant strains. Surfaces that can be
completely cleaned of bacteria do not.


You're worrying about nothing. How many bugs are resistant to bleach
or peracetic acid?

Enough to require a regular rotation of disinfectants, to maintain their
effectiveness.

Use whichever you prefer, but don't assume plastic
is intrinsically safer. It's not.

Obviously, next time I build a medical clean room, I should ignore the
microbiologist and line it with wood - so much nicer to look at than all
that easily cleaned plastic and metal.

If you really want to worry about
something, worry about the staff not washing their hands after
scratching their knackers!

Is E Coli really that prevalent there?

Colin Bignell

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


It is essential that children are catered for. Part of our new venture, is
also a milkshake bar. We had this in both of our cafes, and it provided an
extremely good revenue stream for us, and was much loved by the kids. With
the 'American' theme of the new place, it fits very well into the overall
scheme.

Are you goign to be doing decent icecreams?

I keep looking out for places that will decent things like banana splits,
knickerbocker glories, sundaes etc.

Hard to find places that does those now.

--
Chris French


We did in our cafes, but there's no plans to in this place. We are doing
something like 24 flavours of milkshake though, and these are hand-made with
large quantities of icecream.

Arfa

On 23/05/2011 01:39, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
On 22/05/2011 13:36, Arfa Daily wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
...
Whats a CAB burger? Google only comes up with references to the Bobs
Burgers TV show.

...
CAB is "Certified Angus Beef".

Which meant nothing to me until I looked it up. Nevertheless, it is
still a burger, which I will only eat if I've made it myself. The one
exception used to be a restaurant where you could see the food being
prepared and they made a very good burger. The current owner uses
wooden boards instead of plates, which I view as microbiologically
suspect, so I no longer eat there.

Colin Bignell

Our cooking area is totally open to view, as were the prep areas in both
our cafes. Wouldn't have it any other way. I think that the buying
public should be able to see how their food is being prepared, cooked,
and generally handled.

Very good, if you actually mince the beef and make the burgers in front
of the customer, as this restaurant did. If you simply take them out of
the fridge and stick them on the grill, they could be made entirely from
mechanically recovered meat for all the customer knows.

Colin Bignell

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Arfa Daily wrote:

Tonight, we went out to eat at a local TGIs. They too use CAB burgers,
and
chargrill them. They are on the same complex as a Micky D's, a KFC and a
BK,
but they do not have any problem selling their burgers. The place was
packed, and almost everyone was eating burgers, so we are confident that
there is a demand for our product. Also, we have stayed in touch with
many
of our previous regular customers, and they all cannot wait for us to
open.

If you get time and the chance, I suggest a bit of research at Hamburger
Union. I consider that they offer a decent burger for a reasonable
price, despite being in rip-off London. Certainly way better than
anything in the crapital since Gatsbys closed down.

I wish you success. However when it comes to providing decent food at
reasonable prices I find that the great British public doesn't give a
****, as witness the comments here about how great Aldi etc are and what
overpriced ****e olive oil fresh and direct from the farm must be. If
you were to serve up dead dog in a trough with plenty of economy baked
beans as a side dish, you'd have plenty of takers.

WTF are "CAB" burgers BTW? Hamburger Union do that peculiar thing of
taking steak and mincing it, is that what you mean or do you refer to
some frozen patty of Cow's Arse Burger?

It's Certified Angus Beef. As to the public not caring about the quality of
the food that they are fed, from our experience, I don't think that is
wholly true. Whilst there is a large section of the public who don't care -
and if there wasn't , the likes of Mickey D's and roadside greasy spoons
wouldn't survive - there is also a big contingent that *do* care, and will
seek out establishments that provide a superior product. I think where a lot
of businesses go wrong on that score, is to then overprice their offerings.
The trick is to cover all costs, then make a healthy profit, but remain
competitive. And it is a juggling trick, but do-able. I once saw one of
Ramsay's programmes where he was sorting out some restaurant that was about
to go down the pan, and he said that the formula was 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3. That's
materials, overheads, and profit. And we've found that is pretty near the
mark. If you can get it to around that, the business will be sound.

Arfa

On Mon, 23 May 2011 01:51:40 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Arfa Daily wrote:

Tonight, we went out to eat at a local TGIs. They too use CAB burgers,
and
chargrill them. They are on the same complex as a Micky D's, a KFC and a
BK,

Snip


WTF are "CAB" burgers BTW? Hamburger Union do that peculiar thing of
taking steak and mincing it, is that what you mean or do you refer to
some frozen patty of Cow's Arse Burger?

It's Certified Angus Beef.

Which contrary to common belief is just another American brand like
Colonel Scrapers Alabama Fried Weasel and has absolutely SFA to do
with Certified Aberdeen Angus Beef.

As to the public not caring about the quality of
the food that they are fed, from our experience, I don't think that is
wholly true. Whilst there is a large section of the public who don't care -
and if there wasn't , the likes of Mickey D's and roadside greasy spoons
wouldn't survive - there is also a big contingent that *do* care, and will
seek out establishments that provide a superior product. I think where a lot
of businesses go wrong on that score, is to then overprice their offerings.
The trick is to cover all costs, then make a healthy profit, but remain
competitive. And it is a juggling trick, but do-able. I once saw one of
Ramsay's programmes where he was sorting out some restaurant that was about
to go down the pan, and he said that the formula was 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3. That's
materials, overheads, and profit. And we've found that is pretty near the
mark. If you can get it to around that, the business will be sound.


"Gordon's own Kitchen Nightma Ramsay admits to having faced
bankruptcy

...

Mail Online

The host of Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares said business at his
restaurants plunged so sharply he was advised (by the bank) to file
for bankruptcy as profits fell from £3million to just under £400,000
....

IGWS If I wanted to know how to make a business show a profit I
wouldn't ask a bankrupt (whether declared or not) failed footballer.

Derek G

On Sun, 22 May 2011 21:36:06 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote:



WTF are "CAB" burgers BTW? Hamburger Union do that peculiar thing of
taking steak and mincing it, is that what you mean or do you refer to
some frozen patty of Cow's Arse Burger?

Not at all.

Any fule no it's Cow Afterbirth Burger.

Derek G

Arfa Daily wrote:

It's Certified Angus Beef.

Ta.

As to the public not caring about the quality of the food that they are
fed, from our experience, I don't think that is wholly true. Whilst there
is a large section of the public who don't care - and if there wasn't ,
the likes of Mickey D's and roadside greasy spoons wouldn't survive -
there is also a big contingent that *do* care, and will seek out
establishments that provide a superior product. I think where a lot of
businesses go wrong on that score, is to then overprice their offerings.
The trick is to cover all costs, then make a healthy profit, but remain
competitive. And it is a juggling trick, but do-able. I once saw one of
Ramsay's programmes where he was sorting out some restaurant that was
about to go down the pan, and he said that the formula was 1/3 + 1/3 +
1/3. That's materials, overheads, and profit. And we've found that is
pretty near the mark. If you can get it to around that, the business will
be sound.

I think that the attitude to food served and to retail is different.
I've worked on the same site as people selling incredibly over-priced
steak sandwiches, coffee, burgers, deer burgers etc and seen them do a
roaring trade with people willing to pay up to a tenner for a burger if
it was certified organic and the cow had been fed a bottle of beer every
day. And I've seen the same punters turn their nose up at the prospect
of paying less for food ingredients than the prices charged in
supermarkets. I'd have died and gone to heaven for margins of the order
that you talk about.

Supermarkets try to pay producers about 10-20% of the shelf price, which
in most cases is less than the cost of production. A cost model as you
suggest would, for example, price a litre of olive oil at about £27. A
price that very few UK customers would pay. We worked on a margin of
farm gate + 4-10% and still struggled to sell much at those prices. I
still recall the day that someone argued with me that the pasta that I
was selling was "over priced" and the same person continuing to argue
(loudly) that was the case even when I pointed out that the pack in
question was 2x the size of packs in the local supermarket and that it
was actually 10% cheaper than the pasta on sale in the supermarket.

From our point of view, not worth the hassle in the end, because we can
make bigger profits by selling to wholesalers who will take the entire
crop and give us cash in hand.

As I say, I really wish you well, I think from the sound of it you have
a good product and a good idea and you deserve to succeed.

John wrote:


CAB is explained in earlier posts - read them.

If I want the opinion of a monkey, I'll rattle your cage with a stick.
Until then stick to eating your own poo, eh?

On Sun, 22 May 2011 20:05:04 +0100, chris French wrote:

Are you goign to be doing decent icecreams?

I keep looking out for places that will decent things like banana
splits, knickerbocker glories, sundaes etc.

If they do *do not* use squirty cream. freshly whipped double and ice
cream that actually has cream and milk in it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 22 May 2011 17:48:26 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:

The current owner uses wooden boards instead of plates, which I view as
microbiologically suspect, so I no longer eat there.

Might be a bad assumption depending on the timber how often they are
washed or replaced. Some timbers have natural bactericides unlike
plastic and you'll never clean down to the bottom of the knife cuts
in plastic.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"John" wrote in message
...


I don't like the taste that the plastic bottles impart to the Coke, so
that's why I do the cans :-)

Cans are coated in a plastic varnish to stop the coke corroding them from
the inside aren't they.

BTW Pepsi Max is better, its not as sweet.

On Mon, 23 May 2011 01:51:40 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

It's Certified Angus Beef.

What are you going to offer those that don't eat lumps of of mashed
up dead animal?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 23/05/2011 07:55, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2011 17:48:26 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:

The current owner uses wooden boards instead of plates, which I view as
microbiologically suspect, so I no longer eat there.

Might be a bad assumption depending on the timber how often they are
washed or replaced. Some timbers have natural bactericides unlike
plastic and you'll never clean down to the bottom of the knife cuts
in plastic.


If I get served on plastic plates, I expect them to be single use. As
for bactericides, when I ran a medical manufacturing clean room, the
microbiologist mandated a rotation of three different disinfectants, to
prevent the build up of resistant strains. I don't see that it is less
likely that would happen with a natural bactericide and, unlike
ceramics, it is not going to be easy, if possible, to clean wood of the
blood that oozes from a blue steak.

Colin Bignell

"John" wrote in message
...

WTF are "CAB" burgers BTW? Hamburger Union do that peculiar thing of
taking steak and mincing it, is that what you mean or do you refer to
some frozen patty of Cow's Arse Burger?

CAB is explained in earlier posts - read them.

While the acronym may have been brushed over there has been no explanation.

I had a quick look and it appears to indicate that the beef has more fat in
than typical beef, this may change the flavour, and some may like fatty
tastes. I don't and will avoid the stuff.

I do like the way the Americans decide what is CAB, e.g. at least 51% of the
cow has to be black.

On Sun, 22 May 2011 21:10:45 +0100, Stephen wrote:

I've never bought anything from MickyD's, all they've had from me is
MickyPees and MickyPoos.....

I've been in one when I was desperate for 'food' - had about 10km to ride
across the Pennines and it was 11 pm. After suffering that experience, I
went on and about 100m away, round a corner, was a pizza place still open. I
did wonder about going back for a refund for full regurgitation.

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 May 2011 02:04:37 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

As much consideration as possible has gone into the business model and
projections, and we are confident, given the fact that we have had
successful family run food businesses for many years, that we can make
this
work. Of course, we don't have a crystal ball, and it could all go pear
shaped. In a few weeks when get the place open, we'll see, I guess. I'll
let
you all know how it's going .... ! :-)

Arfa

Yes, please keep us informed. The quality would be of interest, as I like
burgers but am wary of the crapp in McDeadThings etc. If the new place
isn't
too far I'll have a ride and call in (I'm S. Northants - are you around
Earls Barton way?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway



--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Mon, 23 May 2011 01:39:29 +0100, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@"
"insertmysurnamehere wrote:


Obviously, next time I build a medical clean room, I should ignore the
microbiologist and line it with wood - so much nicer to look at than all
that easily cleaned plastic and metal.

But we're not talking about a medical clean room, we're talking about
eating food off plates, ceramic or wood. I don't suppose you autoclave
your plates and spoons at home do you?

Nick

"Nick Odell" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 May 2011 01:39:29 +0100, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@"
"insertmysurnamehere wrote:


Obviously, next time I build a medical clean room, I should ignore the
microbiologist and line it with wood - so much nicer to look at than all
that easily cleaned plastic and metal.

But we're not talking about a medical clean room, we're talking about
eating food off plates, ceramic or wood. I don't suppose you autoclave
your plates and spoons at home do you?

No point, autoclaves don't kill prions as in mad cow disease.
Bleach does if its strong enough.

On Sun, 22 May 2011 04:50:05 -0700 (PDT), Owain
wrote:

On May 22, 11:30*am, Jim K wrote:
Local butcher is doing steak and buckfast pies ready-to-eat take-
away.
Very popular apparently with the primary school kids.

mmm bit rough round you is it? ;)

just a touch, in places.

Conoisseurs put the stuff in a soda-stream machine to make a buckies
fizz.

Or there's buckfast, vodka and lucozade. Not tried it myself.

Not a patch on a Sheeps Head stew with the eyes in to see you through
the week washed down with lashings of Sanatogen and Andrews "Bubbly".

Derek G

On 23/05/2011 10:49, Nick Odell wrote:
On Mon, 23 May 2011 01:39:29 +0100, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@"
"insertmysurnamehere wrote:


Obviously, next time I build a medical clean room, I should ignore the
microbiologist and line it with wood - so much nicer to look at than all
that easily cleaned plastic and metal.

But we're not talking about a medical clean room, we're talking about
eating food off plates, ceramic or wood. I don't suppose you autoclave
your plates and spoons at home do you?

I didn't autoclave the clean room either. My dishwasher is probably more
efficient at cleaning (although not at disinfecting) my crockery and
cutlery than anything we did to the clean room. However, wood is not
dishwasher proof, it does not have a smooth, easily cleaned, surface
like metal or ceramic and it gets knife cuts with use. In short, it is a
trap for contaminants that does not lend itself to proper cleaning.

Colin Bignell

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Arfa Daily wrote:

It's Certified Angus Beef.

Ta.

As to the public not caring about the quality of the food that they are
fed, from our experience, I don't think that is wholly true. Whilst there
is a large section of the public who don't care - and if there wasn't ,
the likes of Mickey D's and roadside greasy spoons wouldn't survive -
there is also a big contingent that *do* care, and will seek out
establishments that provide a superior product. I think where a lot of
businesses go wrong on that score, is to then overprice their offerings.
The trick is to cover all costs, then make a healthy profit, but remain
competitive. And it is a juggling trick, but do-able. I once saw one of
Ramsay's programmes where he was sorting out some restaurant that was
about to go down the pan, and he said that the formula was 1/3 + 1/3 +
1/3. That's materials, overheads, and profit. And we've found that is
pretty near the mark. If you can get it to around that, the business will
be sound.

I think that the attitude to food served and to retail is different.
I've worked on the same site as people selling incredibly over-priced
steak sandwiches, coffee, burgers, deer burgers etc and seen them do a
roaring trade with people willing to pay up to a tenner for a burger if
it was certified organic and the cow had been fed a bottle of beer every
day. And I've seen the same punters turn their nose up at the prospect
of paying less for food ingredients than the prices charged in
supermarkets. I'd have died and gone to heaven for margins of the order
that you talk about.

Supermarkets try to pay producers about 10-20% of the shelf price, which
in most cases is less than the cost of production. A cost model as you
suggest would, for example, price a litre of olive oil at about £27. A
price that very few UK customers would pay. We worked on a margin of
farm gate + 4-10% and still struggled to sell much at those prices. I
still recall the day that someone argued with me that the pasta that I
was selling was "over priced" and the same person continuing to argue
(loudly) that was the case even when I pointed out that the pack in
question was 2x the size of packs in the local supermarket and that it
was actually 10% cheaper than the pasta on sale in the supermarket.

From our point of view, not worth the hassle in the end, because we can
make bigger profits by selling to wholesalers who will take the entire
crop and give us cash in hand.

As I say, I really wish you well, I think from the sound of it you have
a good product and a good idea and you deserve to succeed.

Thanks Steve. Your good wishes are well received. I think margins that are
obtainable vary wildly with the product / service. We definitely did used to
achieve those sorts of margins with our cafes, but that was not by buying
everything in - even at cash and carry prices, which are often more than
Tesco's. For instance, we used to make our own coleslaw, fresh, every
morning before we opened. It was done using quality Helmans mayo, which was
the most expensive ingredient in it, but absolutely worth the cost. The cost
of the vegetables in it was negligible, and the labour, only a small amount.
So, even with the mayo being quite expensive, it still allowed us to offer a
vastly superior product to the commercially available stuff, at a fraction
of the cost. However, we were then able to sell it on at the 'normal' retail
level, thus making a good margin. Likewise, all salad was prepped fresh
every day, from the actual vegetables. Contrast this with many cafes that
just get a few leaves out of a bag, that's already a couple of days old
before they even buy it. It's expensive, and not good quality, but the
owners are too lazy to do the job properly. My wife also baked several
quiches every morning. If you buy these from catering suppliers, they are
like 12 quid a pop. We could make them for again, a fraction of that, and
sell them for the same as people would pay elsewhere for an inferior factory
product, hence making a good margin.

I think that it is about understanding your market, and not being afraid of
hard work in order to make the margins that make it all worth while. And the
customers do notice. We still see many of our old customers on our travels,
and to a single one, they all bemoan the fact that we sold up, and are
excitedly looking forward to being able to come back to us at the new
venture.

Arfa

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Mon, 23 May 2011 01:51:40 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

It's Certified Angus Beef.

What are you going to offer those that don't eat lumps of of mashed
up dead animal?

--
Cheers
Dave.




Why, a veggy burger, of course !

Arfa

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-05-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 23 May 2011 01:51:40 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

It's Certified Angus Beef.

What are you going to offer those that don't eat lumps of of mashed
up dead animal?

Sympathy.



LOL !!

Arfa

On May 23, 1:39*am, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Enough to require a regular rotation of disinfectants, to maintain their
effectiveness.

Right. Really? I mean, really? Bugs build up a resistance to peracetic
acid?!


Obviously, next time I build a medical clean room, I should ignore the
microbiologist and line it with wood - so much nicer to look at than all
that easily cleaned plastic and metal.

Oh yeah, I forgot that they are the same thing with the same
requirements as kitchens.


Is E Coli really that prevalent there?

Well, being neighbours to aresholes... yes.

On 23/05/2011 14:58, David Paste wrote:
On May 23, 1:39 am, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Enough to require a regular rotation of disinfectants, to maintain their
effectiveness.

Right. Really? I mean, really? Bugs build up a resistance to peracetic
acid?!

You would have to discuss that with the consultant microbiologist that
laid down the rules we had to follow and what disinfectants were
acceptable. I just know that we had to keep rotating them and were told
that was to ensure they remained effective.

Obviously, next time I build a medical clean room, I should ignore the
microbiologist and line it with wood - so much nicer to look at than all
that easily cleaned plastic and metal.

Oh yeah, I forgot that they are the same thing with the same
requirements as kitchens.

Not at all. Everything we made got a massive dose of ionizing radiation,
so we did not have to be quite so stringent about the bioburden as a
food preparation factory.

Colin Bignell