Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:03:57 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

Here's something useful

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml_chainss.html

If you have a steady hill, and conditions aren't changing what makes
you stop after X meters without chains and double it with?

O level mathenmatics shpould be all you need dave.
If you are moving you are moving and will stay moving unless somthing
changes.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
mark wrote:

Someone mention ****s?
Example of a nice big cosy 4X4:

Are you alleging that I live in Norfolk? Last time I checked I had one
head and five digits on the end of each limb so I can't be a Boggie.

The road concerned is the main road from London for Londonders on route to
Norfolk to stay in their second homes.
So a good chance that the culprit was such a person.

Perhaps Norfolk isn't so tolerant of the usual 4x4 arrogance.
Are 4x4 drivers the new BMW drivers?


mark

geoff gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

- there was no law against snow chains, and some people had them.

I said a few days ago - there is no law against snow chains

There is if they may damage the road surface - which they can and will on
tarmac.

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:51:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml_chainss.html

If you have a steady hill, and conditions aren't changing what
makes
you stop after X meters without chains and double it with?

O level mathenmatics shpould be all you need dave.

If you are moving you are moving and will stay moving unless
somthing
changes.

I must be missing something.

With nothing changing, like condition of the snow pack, the gradient,
the power out from the engine, speed of travel etc what is to stop
you?

Once on the hill and moving what alters the grip at 30' further on
compared to 60' further on?

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:51:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml_chainss.html
If you have a steady hill, and conditions aren't changing what
makes
you stop after X meters without chains and double it with?
O level mathenmatics shpould be all you need dave.

If you are moving you are moving and will stay moving unless
somthing
changes.

I must be missing something.


First sensible statement you have made.

With nothing changing, like condition of the snow pack, the gradient,
the power out from the engine, speed of travel etc what is to stop
you?


The speed of travel is changing if you slowly come to a halt.


Once on the hill and moving what alters the grip at 30' further on
compared to 60' further on?


nothing needs to.

If you can apply X amiunt of grip over Y distance, starting at Z kinetic
energy, the total energy you have to climb the hill is Z+X*Y

If you have grippier chains, its Z+2X*Y

If the actual thrust from the non chained tyres isn't enough to get
started up the hill from a stop, you are screwed there anyway.

The key is you hit the hill moving..if the thrust is not enough to
maintain speed up the hill, you will eventually stop at a distance
governed by the above. If you have more grip, the distance will be
longer, and if its enough to clear the crest, you are home and dry.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Steve Walker
saying something like:

Nope. Any car parks, roads, etc. that the public have access to can now be
considered part of the highway for road traffic enforcement purposes.
Anyone sensibly using an empty car park for a bit of skid pan practice can
be done for dangerous driving or any other such offence. People have also
been done for not being insured when having a go of other peoples vehicles
in car parks or for not stopping at a pedestrian crossing in one.

As well as that, if someone sees you doing it and reports you to the
police, you can be warned and then, if on a second occasion, a separate
person sees you doing it (or something else) and reports you, you can be
summararily convicted of using a vehicle for anti-social behavior and can
have your vehicle confiscated for a couple of weeks (of course, you will
have to pay for it being towed and stored before you can get it back!)

It's always been the case though, that some coppers are utter ******s.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian
saying something like:

I said a few days ago - there is no law against snow chains

There is if they may damage the road surface - which they can and will on
tarmac.

Which is the same as the general prohibition against damaging it with
tracked vehicles, etc, isn't it? Are snow chains mentioned specifically?

Grimly Curmudgeon gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

I said a few days ago - there is no law against snow chains

There is if they may damage the road surface - which they can and will
on tarmac.

Which is the same as the general prohibition against damaging it with
tracked vehicles, etc, isn't it?

Yup.

Are snow chains mentioned specifically?

Not AFAIK, nor are studded tyres.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:03:57 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Neil
saying something like:

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres) will get an ordinary car
most places, add snow chains and everywhere is possible

Here's something useful

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml_chainss.html

Not trying to drive on the stuff that everyone else has tried to drive on
helps a lot...

mark wrote:

Perhaps Norfolk isn't so tolerant of the usual 4x4 arrogance.

What "arrogance" would that be?

Are 4x4 drivers the new BMW drivers?

Are ****s like you the new morons?

Malcolm wrote:
Dave wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
JimK wrote:
On 5 Jan, 20:51, Dave wrote:
I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife
back
home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

Due to the severe weather we are experiencing and the short time I
have
to prepare, can anyone recommend a web site that will be up to date,
quite quickly, on road conditions and closures due to the weather
conditions please?

Dave

train?

most "proper" such websites I checked today were bust or text only....

ps what happens on sat?

JimK
Don't try it wednesday. There is currently about 3 ins in the
Portsmouth area with more further north and it's still snowing. The
snow is 'wet' on the ground so unless the roads are cleared it will
be very slippery.

Thanks for that. Daughter lives on the border between Southsea and
Eastney, on the coast.

Malcolm, living in Fareham but brought up and taught to drive in Co.
Durham

Ah! So you know about snow? Not many do these days. :-)
Locals are clueless, they think the faster they can spin the driving
wheels, the faster they can get up the hill. It makes it very
difficult for any decent driver to follow them.

Dave
Fareham/Gosport has been gridlocked since about 4pm. I guess that once
the gritters can get through the main roads will be OK but as for the
minor roads... The one positive thing is that the south of Portsea
Island is very much influenced by the sea so there may be very little
snow there, and if there is it should disappear relatively quickly.
Surely you can get reports on the last part of the journey from SWMBO.
CEEFAX can give you an overall view of the main routes

Malcolm (not intending to drive tomorrow)

You had me confused when you mentioned Portsea Island, I wasn't aware
that Portsmouth was separate from the mainland, but I have just got off
the phone to her and she agrees it is.

What a mess the roads are there. Both Portsmouth and Southsea are a mess
with snow and ice, Southsea particularly bad. I had to drive down the
front in Southsea at 10 MPH in second gear. The only other road that
caused concern was the M40 it had not been gritted very well and the
third lane had a lot of ice on it.

Dave

Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
snip

More point to all the people who flagged me down and earnestly told me I
would "never get that big thing up/down that hill" every one of them was
wrong.
I'll bet it had Rover somewhere in its name :-)

Umm no, it's a Ford. And it's not a tractor. My tractor doesn't have
wheels.

Well, what can I say, but good for Ford :-)

For the first time ever, I got snow bound in the car park provided for
our daughters house. It took a fair bit of rocking and pushing to get it
out. Snow down there came quite thick, but I suspect that it thawed
somewhat and re-froze again. Until this point, I hadn't walked on the
local snow, so I didn't know the nature of it. Had I had done so, I
would have used the old trick of driving too far and reversing back to
give me a run into the rutted snow. Earlier I tried parking in the layby
in front of the house, but could not get my wheels to go over the 6 inch
ruts left by other cars, again because of frozen snow.

All's well, I'm back home now :-)

To similar conditions. :-(

Dave

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Dave writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
JimK writes:
On 5 Jan, 20:51, Dave wrote:
I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife back
home. I have until Friday night to get her back.
I would change your plans.
In my bit of Hampshire, we had 5 inches in 3 hours this evening.
We had that much this morning. I nearly didn't get out for my real ale pint.

Seems to have increased to 11" overnight, and still snowing.

I found out one thing about my old Rover 45, it could cope far better
than a BMW due to my front wheel drive :-))

It's slowed down now, but I suspect nothing is going to move for days.
You worry me. What roads are you talking about?

My route will be Preston M6 to the M42 to the M40 to the A34 to the M3
to the M27 to the M275 and then through Portsmouth main roads to Southsea.

Can you expand a bit please? Or am I now getting too worried?

Watch the news. Just heard dire things about M27, but it's not
a motorway I use much myself.

It wasn't all that bad today. All 3 lanes were open and speedworthy.

Dave

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:13:57 +0000, Dave wrote:

TomTom is a bit slow, isn't it? I have done that journey back home in 3
hours in a Montego estate :-)

Sticking to the limits?...

My limits, yes :-)

Does that short stretch of the M42 have those annoying gantries with
speed limits on?

Donno, I rarely go further south than the M62 these days. As to the
M42 I spent quite a bit of time riding a push bike along it when they
were building it.

I can answer that my self, and it is no. :-)

The M6 S of Manchester is always a PITA until you get North of the M62.

Naw, not until you are north of Lancaster does it get nice.

You don't travel it so much as to notice :-)

Dave

Dave wrote:

All's well, I'm back home now :-)

Good news. If anythign I thought today was more difficult driving than
when it snowing. The partial melt and re-freeze made driving awkward and
they seem to have run out of salt so the A32 was like a skating rink. It
didn't stop someone tailgating me all the way home though.

To similar conditions. :-(

Hey ho, that's life.

On 07/01/2010 22:55, Dave wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:13:57 +0000, Dave wrote:

TomTom is a bit slow, isn't it? I have done that journey back home in
3 hours in a Montego estate :-)

Sticking to the limits?...

My limits, yes :-)

Does that short stretch of the M42 have those annoying gantries with
speed limits on?

Donno, I rarely go further south than the M62 these days. As to the
M42 I spent quite a bit of time riding a push bike along it when they
were building it.

I can answer that my self, and it is no. :-)

The M6 S of Manchester is always a PITA until you get North of the M62.

Naw, not until you are north of Lancaster does it get nice.

You don't travel it so much as to notice :-)

Dave

Used to live in Wales and work in Glasgow. Meant a lot of travelling up
there. Luckily when I was doing that in the winter it seemed always to
be -10 but almost no snow.

As soon as I saw Lancaster on the way north I relaxed and looked forward
to the rest of the journey which I loved.

Rod

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:33:56 +0000, Steve Firth wrote:

Dave wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
snip

More point to all the people who flagged me down and earnestly told me I
would "never get that big thing up/down that hill" every one of them was
wrong.

I'll bet it had Rover somewhere in its name :-)

Umm no, it's a Ford.

Y'know, I had one of those Ford Explorer things on hire a couple of
years ago and I was thinking to myself when I saw it "uh oh, this is going
to be trouble" (I'd heard lots of bad things about them, and we'd just
been told it was a 4x4 at the rental place, not what make/model until we
picked it up).

Full credit to it though - I got it up and down snow and ice-covered
mountainsides many a time, where there were plenty of other 4x4s falling
off the side of the roads (cars just didn't have a hope in hell, and there
were a few big truck drivers vainly stopped and putting snow chains on -
they were always still right where I'd seen them the next day)

It was quite a nice thing to drive in those sorts of conditions -
quite sure-footed and lots of feedback as to what the wheels were doing.

cheers

Jules

Jules wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:33:56 +0000, Steve Firth wrote:

Dave wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
snip

More point to all the people who flagged me down and earnestly told me I
would "never get that big thing up/down that hill" every one of them was
wrong.
I'll bet it had Rover somewhere in its name :-)
Umm no, it's a Ford.

Y'know, I had one of those Ford Explorer things on hire a couple of
years ago and I was thinking to myself when I saw it "uh oh, this is going
to be trouble" (I'd heard lots of bad things about them, and we'd just
been told it was a 4x4 at the rental place, not what make/model until we
picked it up).

Full credit to it though - I got it up and down snow and ice-covered
mountainsides many a time, where there were plenty of other 4x4s falling
off the side of the roads (cars just didn't have a hope in hell, and there
were a few big truck drivers vainly stopped and putting snow chains on -
they were always still right where I'd seen them the next day)

It was quite a nice thing to drive in those sorts of conditions -
quite sure-footed and lots of feedback as to what the wheels were doing.

cheers

Jules

come the electric ar, they will al have AWD, with a motir on each wheel,
and computerised traction control anyway, and for fuel efficiency,
probably deep narrow tyres, just like a Moggie.

So we will be back to the 50's in terms of power and tyre grip, but with
21st century technology controlling it.

The old moggie was a damned good snow vehicle.

Rod wrote:
The M6 S of Manchester is always a PITA until you get North of the M62.

Naw, not until you are north of Lancaster does it get nice.

You don't travel it so much as to notice :-)

Dave

Used to live in Wales and work in Glasgow. Meant a lot of travelling up
there. Luckily when I was doing that in the winter it seemed always to
be -10 but almost no snow.

As soon as I saw Lancaster on the way north I relaxed and looked
forward to the rest of the journey which I loved.


Anywhere north of the M55 junction does it for me... or even the exit
from the CPC car park.


--
Ian White

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
saying something like:

Nope. Any car parks, roads, etc. that the public have access to can now be
considered part of the highway for road traffic enforcement purposes.
Anyone sensibly using an empty car park for a bit of skid pan practice can
be done for dangerous driving or any other such offence. People have also
been done for not being insured when having a go of other peoples vehicles
in car parks or for not stopping at a pedestrian crossing in one.

It's always been the case though, that some coppers are utter ******s.

....but now they're all incentivised to be so.

Pete

Jules wrote:

Y'know, I had one of those Ford Explorer things on hire a couple of
years ago and I was thinking to myself when I saw it "uh oh, this is going
to be trouble" (I'd heard lots of bad things about them, and we'd just
been told it was a 4x4 at the rental place, not what make/model until we
picked it up).

The anti-Explorer hysteria whipped up by Watchdog was astonishing. Most
of it was complete ********[1]. I've taken mine over the Alps, Dolomites
and Apennines in winter. Often several times a year. With M&S tyres
there's no need for chains, and it's big, fat, comfortable and as you
say provides good feedback on what's happening so you can drive safely.

[1] What the program and the destractors fail to mention is that the
engine is German, the transmission is built by Mazda, the rest is
American but what break down is likely for the body and seats? You don't
hear Mazda owners going around saying "Oh my Mazda B-series pickup truck
is so unreliable" yet that and the Explorer are much the same thing.

Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

All's well, I'm back home now :-)

Good news. If anythign I thought today was more difficult driving than
when it snowing. The partial melt and re-freeze made driving awkward and
they seem to have run out of salt so the A32 was like a skating rink. It
didn't stop someone tailgating me all the way home though.

IKWYM Was it a woman? They are notorious for tail gating. They don't do
it intentionally.

Does Hampshire know what salt/grit spreading is done for? Southsea coast
road was virtually a sheet of ice. Now that surprised me.

Dave

Jules wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:33:56 +0000, Steve Firth wrote:

Dave wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
snip

More point to all the people who flagged me down and earnestly told me I
would "never get that big thing up/down that hill" every one of them was
wrong.
I'll bet it had Rover somewhere in its name :-)
Umm no, it's a Ford.

Y'know, I had one of those Ford Explorer things on hire a couple of
years ago and I was thinking to myself when I saw it "uh oh, this is going
to be trouble" (I'd heard lots of bad things about them, and we'd just
been told it was a 4x4 at the rental place, not what make/model until we
picked it up).

Full credit to it though - I got it up and down snow and ice-covered
mountainsides many a time, where there were plenty of other 4x4s falling
off the side of the roads (cars just didn't have a hope in hell, and there
were a few big truck drivers vainly stopped and putting snow chains on -
they were always still right where I'd seen them the next day)

It was quite a nice thing to drive in those sorts of conditions -
quite sure-footed and lots of feedback as to what the wheels were doing.

I hadn't expected it to be a Ford, cos in off road trials, it is usually
a Land Rover that goes in to pull out the sick and stuck motors :-)

Dave

Dave wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

All's well, I'm back home now :-)

Good news. If anythign I thought today was more difficult driving than
when it snowing. The partial melt and re-freeze made driving awkward and
they seem to have run out of salt so the A32 was like a skating rink. It
didn't stop someone tailgating me all the way home though.

IKWYM Was it a woman? They are notorious for tail gating. They don't do
it intentionally.


Do women do anything intentionally?

Most seem rather ruled by pack instinct and hormones..

Andy Champ wrote:
Dave wrote:

That raises a question. Major roads around here (A6) have been
gritted. But I still find my ABS kicks in on an apparently clear road.
The temperature is only 0 degrees C.

WTF is going on? It can't be black ice. It's not cold enough.


If the sky is clear, and the sun is not on the road, radiative cooling
can get the surface temperature a _long_ way below the air temperature.

R. Thanks for that, I hadn't considered it.

Dave

Dave wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:
Dave wrote:

That raises a question. Major roads around here (A6) have been
gritted. But I still find my ABS kicks in on an apparently clear
road. The temperature is only 0 degrees C.

WTF is going on? It can't be black ice. It's not cold enough.


If the sky is clear, and the sun is not on the road, radiative cooling
can get the surface temperature a _long_ way below the air temperature.

R. Thanks for that, I hadn't considered it.

cf ground frost vs air frost.

Dave

Dave wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

All's well, I'm back home now :-)

Good news. If anythign I thought today was more difficult driving than
when it snowing. The partial melt and re-freeze made driving awkward and
they seem to have run out of salt so the A32 was like a skating rink. It
didn't stop someone tailgating me all the way home though.

IKWYM Was it a woman?

No, oddly enough it was a bloke. He looked like Jack Straw.

They are notorious for tail gating. They don't do
it intentionally.

Sadly true, but when in the passenger seat my wife claims that if I get
closer than 800 metres to the car in front I'm driving too close.

Does Hampshire know what salt/grit spreading is done for? Southsea coast
road was virtually a sheet of ice. Now that surprised me.

Apparently they ran out of salt. They are making all sorts of excuses,
but "we're a useless bunch of jobsworths", the real reason, hasn't
featured yet.

Steve Walker wrote:

Nope. Any car parks, roads, etc. that the public have access to can now be
considered part of the highway for road traffic enforcement purposes.
Anyone sensibly using an empty car park for a bit of skid pan practice can
be done for dangerous driving or any other such offence. People have also
been done for not being insured when having a go of other peoples vehicles
in car parks or for not stopping at a pedestrian crossing in one.

But supermarket car parks don't have pedestrian crossings. They might
have white stripes painted across a part of them, but that does not
constitute a valid pedestrian crossing. It only mimics a zebra crossing.
No Belisha beacons involved.

Dave

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:19:49 +0000, Dave
wrote:

But supermarket car parks don't have pedestrian crossings. They might
have white stripes painted across a part of them, but that does not
constitute a valid pedestrian crossing. It only mimics a zebra crossing.
No Belisha beacons involved.

My local Sainsbury has Belisha beacons in their car park.

--
Frank Erskine

Jules wrote:

Y'know, I had one of those Ford Explorer things on hire a couple of
years ago and I was thinking to myself when I saw it "uh oh, this is going
to be trouble" (I'd heard lots of bad things about them, and we'd just
been told it was a 4x4 at the rental place, not what make/model until we
picked it up).

Full credit to it though - I got it up and down snow and ice-covered
mountainsides many a time, where there were plenty of other 4x4s falling
off the side of the roads (cars just didn't have a hope in hell, and there
were a few big truck drivers vainly stopped and putting snow chains on -
they were always still right where I'd seen them the next day)

It was quite a nice thing to drive in those sorts of conditions -
quite sure-footed and lots of feedback as to what the wheels were doing.


Story I heard was that treat it like a 4x4 - slow, lumbering, doesn't
care about mud - and it will do a good job. Try to power slide it on
dry tarmac and you are in deep trouble.

Too many drivers didn't understand that.

Andy

Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

how long would it take me
to train her in sexual education?
About five minutes if you leave her around Portsmouth.
RAOTFLMAO

What is it about Portsmouth that brings this up with such regularity?

Umm, it's the home of both the Navy and the Marines. Does it need more
than that to set the scene?

Sorry, I forgot about the Marines. Daughter lives in a maisonette that
must have housed the Marines and I often wonder what stories the walls
could tell. You could imagine the cock of the unit humping every one's
wife and smirking at their husbands.

Dave

geoff wrote:
In message , Dave
writes
geoff wrote:
In message , Dave
writes
I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife
back home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

Due to the severe weather we are experiencing and the short time I
have to prepare, can anyone recommend a web site that will be up to
date, quite quickly, on road conditions and closures due to the
weather conditions please?

Motorways - frixo
will give you real time speeds for the m6, m1 m25 etc
lets start with the m6
http://www.frixo.com/m6-south.asp

Thanks for that, I'll transfer that to the crappy lappy I am taking
with me

It's great and its all you need

In the end, I didn't need it, thank gawd :-)

Dave

Terry Fields wrote:
Dave wrote:

Terry Fields wrote:
Dave wrote:

I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife back
home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

Due to the severe weather we are experiencing and the short time I have
to prepare, can anyone recommend a web site that will be up to date,
quite quickly, on road conditions and closures due to the weather
conditions please?

What did you decide to do: attempt the journey or suggest YBH comes
home by train?
I am tentatively going to try and bring her back home. The slightest
hitch and I will do a U turn and come back home myself.

I'm getting too old to be doing this sort of run.

i'm sure you'll drive carefully.

If your car radio has RDS, tune it to a BBC station and enable Traffic
Announcements. Any BBC station giving out a travel bulletin that is
within range of your car will switch the radio over to their
broadcast. This way, you use the plethora of BBC stations to monitor
conditions local to you.

You may be able to turn the audio down, and only hear the traffic
bulletins, if you don't like the programmes :-)

Drive safely.

I turned the radio to mute, as my wife and I don't share the same
delight in stations. She likes Radio 2, I like Classic FM.

While I was going to the loo and came back, I was informed that there
was a snow problem in Cheshire. Come to drive through Cheshire and there
were just the chevrons on the road, they never slow me down.

Dave

chris French wrote:
In message , Dave
writes
Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:

I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife
back home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

Due to the severe weather we are experiencing and the short time I
have to prepare, can anyone recommend a web site that will be up to
date, quite quickly, on road conditions and closures due to the
weather conditions please?

Dave
No, but have considered getting her to travel back by train to save
the double road journey in potentially difficult conditions?

I reckon that a ticket on the day will cost well in excess of £200-00.

As has been pointed out, no it won't - unless she has to travel in the
more expensive times of the day. She could have had a walk on return
fare for less than the price of the petrol for the double trip (assuming
you took her down)

Come later in the month, I will get myself armed up with all the info
about trains.

I Can't see her paying that, as she thinks of me as a free lift back.


Ask her to fill up the tank before driving back ? :-)

I would expect a blood bath, mine :-(

Dave the mug.

No comment :-)

I can't blame you. If you had commented and she had read it, I would be
in a blood bath.

Dave

Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

No, it's taking him forever because it's been closed between Southampton
and Fareham for most of the evening. Not the snow per se, just divots
driving too fast and not leaving enough braking distance.
It's not like you to call them divots. Are you well and OK there?

Yeah, I'm fine thanks Dave. I had a long trip home yesterday. Close to
four hours to go 15 miles. The problem was the divots. The A32 rises and
falls as it crosses the Downs and people driving too fast and too close
had numerous smashes leading the roads being completely closed. I sat
for a time in a queue until I worked out that something was badly wrong
then I turned around and took to the lanes running parallel to the main
road. These are even steeper than the 'A' road and drivers had tried
using the routes in cars that couldn't make it up the hills.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the A32. I tried to find it with Autoroute
but failed. I could be too tired after the long drive yesterday.

I ended up taking numerous diversions including green lanes to get
around the areas where drivers had simply walked away from their cars
leaving them blockign the road. Incredible selfishness IMO.

It doesn't happen in just backwaters. I had to go in town to do some
shopping and the A6 had parked cars on the left and the right. Only one
car could get through at a time in either direction.

I offered to tow a couple of people out of their self-imposed misery but
the first one refused any help

Stupid *******s

and the second didn't know how to attach
the towing eye to their car.

Even more of a stupid *******.

I ended up pushing it up hill with the aid
of a couple of farmers. Our motive wasn't entirely altruistic, we wanted
to get past. Even then the driver was thoughtless as she turned the rear
windscreen wiper on and showered us with snow, and she was unable to
grasp the concept of starting in second gear and being gentle with the
clutch so it wasn't going anywhere fast. In the end we pushed it into a
passing place and suggested she walk home since she said she lived just
800 yards away.

Reminds me of the first time I have been stuck in snow. Yesterday, I got
stuck in about 6 inches of snow. It was my own fault, as I didn't make
the the run forward and back up to run into it when I set off. Took
about 2 mins to get out with the help of our daughter who was asking if
I was using the gas pedal on a diesel. :-(

So that is what I might have to put up with tomorrow then.

Be careful early morning since the temperature is now dropping at 0.5C
per hour and there's still a lot of snow on the roads.

Car told me that the lowest temp was around Birmingham of minus 7.

Dave

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:26:31 +0000, Frank Erskine wrote:

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:19:49 +0000, Dave
wrote:

But supermarket car parks don't have pedestrian crossings. They might
have white stripes painted across a part of them, but that does not
constitute a valid pedestrian crossing. It only mimics a zebra crossing.
No Belisha beacons involved.

My local Sainsbury has Belisha beacons in their car park.

As does the Tescos that we occasionally frequent.

SteveW

Dave wrote:

Be careful early morning since the temperature is now dropping at 0.5C
per hour and there's still a lot of snow on the roads.

Car told me that the lowest temp was around Birmingham of minus 7.

It got to -14.6 here the same night I made that post. It's now an almost
tropical -4.2.

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:19:49 +0000, Dave
wrote:

But supermarket car parks don't have pedestrian crossings. They might
have white stripes painted across a part of them, but that does not
constitute a valid pedestrian crossing. It only mimics a zebra crossing.
No Belisha beacons involved.

My local Sainsbury has Belisha beacons in their car park.

Next time I can get into our local one, I'll take a look. Just been out
for some decent DVD -R and couldn't get in to our local one.

Dave

Tim W wrote:
Dave
wibbled on Wednesday 06 January 2010 19:30
the place with half a dozen staff and merge down to 3 classes if they
*really* had to (less than a hundred pupils total, covering ages 5-12).
Having had a job, for three years, as site supervisor, the problem is
the alarm code and the door locks and nothing else. Only the site
supervisor, the head and deputy head knew the code. All the other
teachers had to wait for the code to be entered.

The door locks were duplicated with only the designated key holder being
able to undo the first lock. The second lock was able to be un-locked by
anyone given a key for it. i.e. all the staff.

Dave

In the old days of course, the caretaker often had a cottage on site, so he
was there regardless...

But, surely there could be a simple handover procedure of codes if bad
weather is anticipated the previous day?

It's not that I mind the school being closed - doesn't inconvenience me;
just take the sprogs to the meadow and build Squidward shaped snowmen (we're
weird like that).

But all the people who work and don't have childcare arrangements (and many
fellow parents here are self employed and work locally, thus are normally
unimpeded by snow) have to look forward to a costly day off and ****ed off
customers.

Even if they just turned the school into a creche for the day and let the
kids play and do drawing with bare bones supervision it would be helpful to
many.

Yes, you make a good point there. With only a few teachers, they could
keep the children occupied. Even I could entertain 50 children on my
own. Not that I would want to though :-(

Dave

Steve Firth wrote:
Dave wrote:

Be careful early morning since the temperature is now dropping at 0.5C
per hour and there's still a lot of snow on the roads.
Car told me that the lowest temp was around Birmingham of minus 7.

It got to -14.6 here the same night I made that post. It's now an almost
tropical -4.2.

RAOTFLMAO Do take care as to what you post, I usually have a drink in
my hand. My key board is fast catching me up in the number of showers it
has had in the last 6 months.

Dave