Usenet Nutter wrote:

Someone on BBC News travelling from Poole to Lee on Solent and he is
on a m/way ( missed which one )

M27

but it's taking him forever to complete his journey because ,in his words
,he hit a wall of snow.

No, it's taking him forever because it's been closed between Southampton
and Fareham for most of the evening. Not the snow per se, just divots
driving too fast and not leaving enough braking distance.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:30:05 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Watching the London news tonight made me laugh. Reports from journo's all
over the UK all basically saying "its snowing". A few claimed "the area is
cut off" which makes one wonder how they got there.

They're journalists - they travel through the sewers...

"Dave" wrote in message
...
We usually get a mild winter.

The MET office predicted a barbecue summer and a mild winter.. this is
Murphy reminding us that their mathematical models aren't very good.

geoff gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Whilst I realise you lot in the UK think you have more snow than I have
in this bit of Switzerland, it really isn't too hard to get about-ever!

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres)

Winter tyres are for foreign girlies ...

That'll be me, then.

Steve Walker gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

Yes, but with the cost of another set of wheels

Cheap. Even brand new factory steel wheels are rarely more than £30 a
piece, but perfectly good used wheels are widely available.

and tyres

Don't forget you save the wear on the summer tyres.

and somewhere to store them for the summer

Hardly a big problem compared to the ****e most of us have stacked up
"just in case"...

In 25 years of driving, I've never encountered weather where I've
actually needed snow tyres to get through before

It's all about the increased safety margin throughout the cold weather,
though - winter tyres grip much better even on cold, dry tarmac below
about 5 deg.

Usenet Nutter gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

there was a woman on the news who went to inverness on xmas eve to buy a
turkey, and hasnt got home to her husband yet. [g]
(thats what she told him and he believed it!)

Ah but you missed out the important points ..wehere she lives

Cape Wrath lighthouse...

It's the Tan Hill "Oh, no, we were stuck in the pub for three days" mob
that I suspect of a hint of exaggeration...

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:34:09 -0600, Jules wrote:

Watching the London news tonight made me laugh. Reports from
journo's
all over the UK all basically saying "its snowing".

Wow, thats news?

A few claimed "the area is cut off" which makes one wonder how
they got
there.

They're journalists - they travel through the sewers...

Wonderful!

"Cut off" to me means you can't walk out in a hour or two, so soft
snow depth 18" and distance 2miles.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 6 Jan 2010 08:22:25 GMT, Adrian wrote:

It's the Tan Hill "Oh, no, we were stuck in the pub for three days" mob
that I suspect of a hint of exaggeration...

Aye, they could have got out if they really wanted to, plenty of
4WD's in the aerial shots I saw. If they didn't have a shovel between
them they need their heads looking at. I have a shovel in the car
from Nov to Apr...
Then of course you hear as an aside of the "news" story that the
owner wants to sell...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:11:49 +0100
Neil wrote:

de-lurk

Oh come on guys

Whilst I realise you lot in the UK think you have more snow than I have
in this bit of Switzerland, it really isn't too hard to get about-ever!

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres) will get an ordinary car
most places, add snow chains and everywhere is possible without recourse
to a Chelsea Tractor with the penalties of VED/MPG/CO2 and guilt...

neil

re-lurk


The problem ain't the snow or the ice, it's the poor idiots who never
got taught to drive on them. They just block every road with
abandoned vehicles. The HGV mob are not any better at driving in it,
but create bigger blockages. Even the Police don't understand it.
Driving on ice is easy and fun, but without M&S or chains is more like
flying than driving, you have to know where your momentum is going to
take you. Where (and when) do you go in a typical British Year to learn
the skills to do this?
In The Cantons (also Eastern Europe, Scandi, etc.) you have a majority
of drivers who were taught to drive on ice and snow, and know when not
equipped to try.

R.

In article ,
Dave writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
JimK writes:
On 5 Jan, 20:51, Dave wrote:
I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife back
home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

I would change your plans.
In my bit of Hampshire, we had 5 inches in 3 hours this evening.

We had that much this morning. I nearly didn't get out for my real ale pint.

Seems to have increased to 11" overnight, and still snowing.

I found out one thing about my old Rover 45, it could cope far better
than a BMW due to my front wheel drive :-))

It's slowed down now, but I suspect nothing is going to move for days.

You worry me. What roads are you talking about?

My route will be Preston M6 to the M42 to the M40 to the A34 to the M3
to the M27 to the M275 and then through Portsmouth main roads to Southsea.

Can you expand a bit please? Or am I now getting too worried?

Watch the news. Just heard dire things about M27, but it's not
a motorway I use much myself.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:34:09 -0600
Jules wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:30:05 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Watching the London news tonight made me laugh. Reports from journo's all
over the UK all basically saying "its snowing". A few claimed "the area is
cut off" which makes one wonder how they got there.

They're journalists - they travel through the sewers...



Yes! That's why we never see them here. No sewers!

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

Seems to have increased to 11" overnight, and still snowing.

Oops, make that 9" (misconverted from cm)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:50:58 +0000, F news@nowhere wrote:


Try http://www.highways.gov.uk/traffic/traffic.aspx

"To meet the current high demand, ... the map has been disabled."

You have to admire t'govmint. Not many organisations would close a
web site because of the wrong sort of snow.

Dave wrote:
I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife back
home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

Due to the severe weather we are experiencing and the short time I have
to prepare, can anyone recommend a web site that will be up to date,
quite quickly, on road conditions and closures due to the weather
conditions please?

Dave
Google Earth with the traffic layer turned on allows you to see, at a
glance, what is going on with the motorway network and some A roads.

Whilst I may be in Switzerland and need winter tyres to comply with the
law (and stay mobile) doesn't change the fact that a set of steel rims
and winter tyres can be had for about £180 for a Vectra and then all of
this hassle would go away - I put my wheels on in November long before
I travel to CH and only swap back when convenient after my return in May
as the tyres work in summer too (just wear a bit faster).[1]

4x steel rims = £40/50 on ebay from Alloy wheel using BarryBoys ;-)
4x 195/65/15 = £35/£55 each on etyres etc

Chains are only £40 in French supermarkets (Swiss are dearer)

The only time the tyre or wheel combination fails is when the snow is
so deep the car airdam acts as a plough and stops progress [2]

- I guess that means that in the UK today it wouldn't work...

Neil

[1] I store them in my garage with all the other 'might come in' stuff
[2] Reverse will get you a bit further...

On 06/01/2010 09:34 Peter Parry wrote:

"To meet the current high demand, ... the map has been disabled."

You have to admire t'govmint. Not many organisations would close a
web site because of the wrong sort of snow.

That message has been there for ever, not just over the snow period (aka
'Winter').

It is pathetic, though, that it's not been fixed.

--
F

In message , Dave
writes
JimK wrote:
On 5 Jan, 20:51, Dave wrote:
I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife back
home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

Due to the severe weather we are experiencing and the short time I have
to prepare, can anyone recommend a web site that will be up to date,
quite quickly, on road conditions and closures due to the weather
conditions please?

Dave
train?

When was the last time you booked a train ticket at the last moment? It
would cost her an arm and a leg to get home.


According to Trainline.com, an off peak single from Portsmouth to
Preston costs £91.50 (as long as she can avoid travelling at certain
times by the look of it - probably those times which hit peak evening
London departure restrictions)). Not cheap, no, but the fuel for a 500+
mile round trip alone is not insignificant.

To pick an easy figure to work out, At 45 mpg it would cost over £50 in
petrol - and many vehicles will do a lot less on that sort of trip, plus
of course tyre wear and other wear and tear on the car.


--
Chris French

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:44:22 +0000, Rob Horton
wrote:

snipped
Google Earth with the traffic layer turned on allows you to see, at a
glance, what is going on with the motorway network and some A roads.


Eh?? Are you saying GE is in "real time" ?

Neil wrote:
de-lurk

Oh come on guys

Whilst I realise you lot in the UK think you have more snow than I have
in this bit of Switzerland, it really isn't too hard to get about-ever!

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres) will get an ordinary car
most places, add snow chains and everywhere is possible without recourse
to a Chelsea Tractor with the penalties of VED/MPG/CO2 and guilt...


they will, IF you can afford to get a set of winter wheels.

In continental Europe, such things are commonly available.

Here they are not.

This is not an annual event for us. In fact I've not seen it like this
since 1963.

On 06/01/2010 10:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Neil wrote:
de-lurk

Oh come on guys

Whilst I realise you lot in the UK think you have more snow than I
have in this bit of Switzerland, it really isn't too hard to get
about-ever!

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres) will get an ordinary car
most places, add snow chains and everywhere is possible without recourse
to a Chelsea Tractor with the penalties of VED/MPG/CO2 and guilt...


they will, IF you can afford to get a set of winter wheels.

In continental Europe, such things are commonly available.

Here they are not.

This is not an annual event for us. In fact I've not seen it like this
since 1963.

And I may say that the 1963 conditions didn't stop me delivering
newspapers (I had a long round from Crawley up to near Gatwick on the
A23) *or* getting to school (which didn't close). Mind you, to be fair
we had something like 8" on New Year's Day which then took until March
to melt. And it was the wrong type of snow for snowballs as it didn't
stick when you squeezed it.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"

Bill of Rights 1689

dennis@home wrote:


"Dave" wrote in message
...
We usually get a mild winter.

The MET office predicted a barbecue summer and a mild winter.. this is
Murphy reminding us that their mathematical models aren't very good.

The models are OK, but the solutions are chaotic.

They start to diverge from reality 3 days out significantly.

Andrew Gabriel
wibbled on Wednesday 06 January 2010 09:28

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

Seems to have increased to 11" overnight, and still snowing.

Oops, make that 9" (misconverted from cm)


Only 2" here in East Sussex, but still snowing. Closed all the schools in
the county. Trains around Robertsbridge and Tonbridge are fast heading
towards craptitude, though some are sort of moving.

National Rail website and East Sussex CC website (school closure list) much
better than last time... Glad I got a Sainsburys delivery yesterday


Have coal, have carrot, will make snowman



--
Tim Watts

You know you need more insulation when the snow blanket on the roof makes
the house 3 degrees warmer...

Tim Streater
wibbled on Wednesday 06 January 2010 10:42


And I may say that the 1963 conditions didn't stop me delivering
newspapers (I had a long round from Crawley up to near Gatwick on the
A23) *or* getting to school (which didn't close). Mind you, to be fair
we had something like 8" on New Year's Day which then took until March
to melt. And it was the wrong type of snow for snowballs as it didn't
stick when you squeezed it.


I vaguely recall that my school was probably only closed for about 1 day
ever due to people not being able to get in. It did close a few other days
in bad weather, but that was due to the heating breaking down (ah, council
maintained boilers....)

These days, it seems to be several days each year. Trouble is half the staff
in our local school live miles away and the half that live locally can't
open the school, presumably because they can't technically cover all the
required functions. It's such a little school that they could run the place
with half a dozen staff and merge down to 3 classes if they *really* had to
(less than a hundred pupils total, covering ages 5-12).

--
Tim Watts

You know you need more insulation when the snow blanket on the roof makes
the house 3 degrees warmer...

Tim Streater wrote:
On 06/01/2010 10:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Neil wrote:
de-lurk

Oh come on guys

Whilst I realise you lot in the UK think you have more snow than I
have in this bit of Switzerland, it really isn't too hard to get
about-ever!

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres) will get an ordinary car
most places, add snow chains and everywhere is possible without recourse
to a Chelsea Tractor with the penalties of VED/MPG/CO2 and guilt...


they will, IF you can afford to get a set of winter wheels.

In continental Europe, such things are commonly available.

Here they are not.

This is not an annual event for us. In fact I've not seen it like this
since 1963.

And I may say that the 1963 conditions didn't stop me delivering
newspapers (I had a long round from Crawley up to near Gatwick on the
A23) *or* getting to school (which didn't close). Mind you, to be fair
we had something like 8" on New Year's Day which then took until March
to melt. And it was the wrong type of snow for snowballs as it didn't
stick when you squeezed it.

Things I remember are

- EVERYBODY in our little suburban cul de sac got out the shovels and
started digging their cars out, and the bit of road in front. No moaning
to the guvmint or council.

- all the cars on narrow crossplys worked.More or less.

- there was no law against snow chains, and some people had them.

- every shop cleared the pavements in front of it.

- lots of coal ash got laid as well.


In fact things worked BETTER because people did NOT expect the
government to be in control of the weather, and accepted that if YOUR
car was stuck, it was YOUR job to pull it out, with the help of a
neighbour or two, who had chains, or a tractor.

the railways HAD snow ploughs, and used them. electrics were pretty
badly ****ed for a few days - we were on a third rail system, and they
took a couple of days to get going. Steam and diesel were OK, though a
lot of lorries waxed up and needed attention.

But people just accepted that the whole country needed to get off its
arse and get itself moving, so we did.

Today, they just sit at the end of 100 meters of snow covered road and
complain they cant get to Tescos.

Get shovelling you lazy *******s!

In article , Tim W
scribeth thus
Tim Streater
wibbled on Wednesday 06 January 2010 10:42


And I may say that the 1963 conditions didn't stop me delivering
newspapers (I had a long round from Crawley up to near Gatwick on the
A23) *or* getting to school (which didn't close). Mind you, to be fair
we had something like 8" on New Year's Day which then took until March
to melt. And it was the wrong type of snow for snowballs as it didn't
stick when you squeezed it.


I vaguely recall that my school was probably only closed for about 1 day
ever due to people not being able to get in. It did close a few other days
in bad weather, but that was due to the heating breaking down (ah, council
maintained boilers....)

Same here just the day .. there was snow around 10 odd feet deep but
everything worked)..


These days, it seems to be several days each year. Trouble is half the staff
in our local school live miles away and the half that live locally can't
open the school, presumably because they can't technically cover all the
required functions. It's such a little school that they could run the place
with half a dozen staff and merge down to 3 classes if they *really* had to
(less than a hundred pupils total, covering ages 5-12).

If the boiler broke down at our old school the answer was very simple,
run on the spot and keep your overcoat on!...
--
Tony Sayer

On 06/01/2010 00:30 The Medway Handyman wrote:

Watching the London news tonight made me laugh. Reports from journo's all
over the UK all basically saying "its snowing".

You mean they noticed *and reported* there's a whole country outside of
the M25 car park?

Next you know they'll be sending Attenborough out to do a couple of
documentaries on the natives...

--
F

"Dave Liquorice" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

It's the Tan Hill "Oh, no, we were stuck in the pub for three days" mob
that I suspect of a hint of exaggeration...

Aye, they could have got out if they really wanted to, plenty of 4WD's
in the aerial shots I saw.

Then there's the subtle detail that Tan Hill have (or had) a Hagglund -
in Old Peculier livery...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3519/...1f3c4f25da.jpg

Then of course you hear as an aside of the "news" story that the owner
wants to sell...

You're surely not suggesting it's a publicity stunt! No!

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres) will get an ordinary car
most places, add snow chains and everywhere is possible without
recourse to a Chelsea Tractor with the penalties of VED/MPG/CO2 and
guilt...

they will, IF you can afford to get a set of winter wheels.

I paid £40 for a second set of OEM alloys, and £50-60 IIRC each for
Vredestein SnowTrac2 tyres, last winter.

In continental Europe, such things are commonly available.

Here they are not.

Yes, they are.
www.camskill.co.uk

The Natural Philosopher
wibbled on Wednesday 06 January 2010 10:59

Tim Streater wrote:
On 06/01/2010 10:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Neil wrote:
de-lurk

Oh come on guys

Whilst I realise you lot in the UK think you have more snow than I
have in this bit of Switzerland, it really isn't too hard to get
about-ever!

M&S (No, not the shop, just Mud + Snow tyres) will get an ordinary car
most places, add snow chains and everywhere is possible without
recourse to a Chelsea Tractor with the penalties of VED/MPG/CO2 and
guilt...


they will, IF you can afford to get a set of winter wheels.

In continental Europe, such things are commonly available.

Here they are not.

This is not an annual event for us. In fact I've not seen it like this
since 1963.

And I may say that the 1963 conditions didn't stop me delivering
newspapers (I had a long round from Crawley up to near Gatwick on the
A23) *or* getting to school (which didn't close). Mind you, to be fair
we had something like 8" on New Year's Day which then took until March
to melt. And it was the wrong type of snow for snowballs as it didn't
stick when you squeezed it.

Things I remember are

- EVERYBODY in our little suburban cul de sac got out the shovels and
started digging their cars out, and the bit of road in front. No moaning
to the guvmint or council.

- all the cars on narrow crossplys worked.More or less.

- there was no law against snow chains, and some people had them.

There's no law now either that I'm aware of (Halford's sell them). The law
simply states that you shouldn't be damaging the road surface which is fine
as snow chains are easily removed.

But you're right in that no one has them...


- every shop cleared the pavements in front of it.

- lots of coal ash got laid as well.


In fact things worked BETTER because people did NOT expect the
government to be in control of the weather, and accepted that if YOUR
car was stuck, it was YOUR job to pull it out, with the help of a
neighbour or two, who had chains, or a tractor.

the railways HAD snow ploughs, and used them. electrics were pretty
badly ****ed for a few days - we were on a third rail system, and they
took a couple of days to get going. Steam and diesel were OK, though a
lot of lorries waxed up and needed attention.

But people just accepted that the whole country needed to get off its
arse and get itself moving, so we did.

Today, they just sit at the end of 100 meters of snow covered road and
complain they cant get to Tescos.

I agree with all that.

Get shovelling you lazy *******s!

--
Tim Watts

You know you need more insulation when the snow blanket on the roof makes
the house 3 degrees warmer...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Dave" wrote in message
...
We usually get a mild winter.

The MET office predicted a barbecue summer and a mild winter.. this is
Murphy reminding us that their mathematical models aren't very good.

The models are OK, but the solutions are chaotic.

They start to diverge from reality 3 days out significantly.

The models are bad, they don't know the starting conditions well enough.
The best they can do is run lots of slightly different conditions and see if
they diverge or not.

F wrote:
On 06/01/2010 00:30 The Medway Handyman wrote:

Watching the London news tonight made me laugh. Reports from journo's
all
over the UK all basically saying "its snowing".

You mean they noticed *and reported* there's a whole country outside of
the M25 car park?

Next you know they'll be sending Attenborough out to do a couple of
documentaries on the natives...


Where would we be without the BBC? Apparently snow comes out of the sky,
but you're only affected if you're "out and about". Also there's a
danger of ice *and* frost. Heaven help us

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Tim Streater
wibbled on Wednesday 06 January 2010 10:42


And I may say that the 1963 conditions didn't stop me delivering
newspapers (I had a long round from Crawley up to near Gatwick on the
A23) *or* getting to school (which didn't close). Mind you, to be fair
we had something like 8" on New Year's Day which then took until March
to melt. And it was the wrong type of snow for snowballs as it didn't
stick when you squeezed it.


I vaguely recall that my school was probably only closed for about 1 day
ever due to people not being able to get in. It did close a few other days
in bad weather, but that was due to the heating breaking down (ah, council
maintained boilers....)

These days, it seems to be several days each year. Trouble is half the
staff
in our local school live miles away and the half that live locally can't
open the school, presumably because they can't technically cover all the
required functions. It's such a little school that they could run the
place
with half a dozen staff and merge down to 3 classes if they *really* had
to
(less than a hundred pupils total, covering ages 5-12).

--
Tim Watts

I remember my secondary school sending everyone home at dinnertime in
December 1986.
The heating worked it was just the snow.

Adam

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:14:38 +0000, TheOldFellow wrote:

The problem ain't the snow or the ice, it's the poor idiots who never
got taught to drive on them.

And the fact that most of the 4x4 mob think 4WD is a universal panacea.
All they do is spin more wheels, getting even less adhesion than in a
2WD...

They've certainly never learned how to drive with 4WD.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

ARWadsworth
wibbled on Wednesday 06 January 2010 11:46




I remember my secondary school sending everyone home at dinnertime in
December 1986.
The heating worked it was just the snow.

Adam

I do believe the 80's was the start of national gayness. It just got worse
since then,

--
Tim Watts

You know you need more insulation when the snow blanket on the roof makes
the house 3 degrees warmer...

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:55:52 +0000 Tim W wrote :
I vaguely recall that my school was probably only closed for about
1 day ever due to people not being able to get in. It

Mine was an 1841 building with frozen outdoor loos so for around six
weeks school was 9-12 then rush home (if you needed to)

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

If the boiler broke down at our old school the answer was very simple,
run on the spot and keep your overcoat on!...

(if you remembered to bring yur PE kit)

[g]

TheOldFellow wrote:


The problem ain't the snow or the ice, it's the poor idiots who never
got taught to drive on them. They just block every road with
abandoned vehicles.

Too damn right! Actually, they sadly don't abandon their vehicles. They just
sit there spinning their wheels and turning the snow into ice.

Dave wrote:

I have to travel from Preston Lancs. to Portsmouth to bring my wife back
home. I have until Friday night to get her back.

Due to the severe weather we are experiencing and the short time I have
to prepare, can anyone recommend a web site that will be up to date,
quite quickly, on road conditions and closures due to the weather
conditions please?

Dave

What did you decide to do: attempt the journey or suggest YBH comes
home by train?

On 06/01/2010 09:14 TheOldFellow wrote:

Where (and when) do you go in a typical British Year to learn
the skills to do this?

Find a large, snow covered, *empty* car park. Easier said than done, I
know, but that's what I was encouraged to do when I learned to drive.

Great fun!

--
F

Tim W wrote:

I do believe the 80's was the start of national gayness. It just got
worse since then,

I was really impressed today that our Postie came out and delivered our post
in this weather. The newspaper did not make it, but he did. Nobody else was
out.




--
Electric cars are very healthy - when the battery runs out you have to
walk home.