My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of money
to me.

All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem to
be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.

There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.

Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?

Hoping to try and save her some money as its her first home.

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:22:06 +0000, Peter smith
wrote:

My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it!



Standard BT rate for a new connection.


which sounds like a lot of money to me.


Tough!


All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem to
be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.

There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.

Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?


No chance! Just pay up ...

Peter smith wrote:
My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of money
to me.

Hoping to try and save her some money as its her first home.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/dea...e-installation

Read through the following forum entries - that offer still seems to be
open.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...640845&page=29


--
Adrian C

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:22:06 +0000, Peter smith wrote:

There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.

Is there anyway I can activate the line ...

Short answer:

No.

or does this require some special equipment to do ?

Long answer:

The wiring within the building may be present, probably done by the
builder. BT may have installed a street cable into the building but
they probably won't have connected the two bits together and the
street cable may only go as far as the nearest green box or a joint
box in a manhole and be unconnected that end as well.

Depending on the route and capacity of the local cables, it may take
BT quite a while to connect that line back to the exchange. And as
they have a "universal service obligation" to provide voice telephony
even if they spend a several days and several engineers making that
connection all you'll pay is that hundred odd quid that you have been
quoted.

I thought all young things had mobiles surgically attached to an ear
these days. Does she need a landline? Daft question really yes she
does probably needs it for broadband(*)(though reasonable speeds can
be had on 3G) but mainly for resilience. When the power fails the
mobile networks also fail, some straight away some after a few
minutes. Very few cells have long term ( than an hour or two) power
back up. Even when the power comes back some take ages (day or two)
to come back online...

(*) I don't think you can side step the BT new install charge by
choosing a LLU provider, fairly sure their T&Cs demand an existing BT
line. But it could be worth looking but don't expect to save much.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Peter smith wrote:

My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of money
to me.
All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem to
be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.
There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.
Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?

No, you cannot activate the line as it will need 'connecting up' at the
exchange or local junction box. Actually, it probably is already
connected, but needs a software or actual switch turning on to make it
live.
Yes, BT connection charges are not in the real world, though I thought
it was nearer to £75 for connection.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:22:06 +0000, Peter smith wrote:
My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of money
to me.

All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem to
be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.

There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.

Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?

Hoping to try and save her some money as its her first home.

Has she considered not having a fixed line and just using her mobile
instead? AFAICS the only drawback would be internet provision if she's
a high-volume downloader, but for just checking email and casual
surfing a 1GB/month add-on should do the job.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Peter smith wrote:

My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of money
to me.
All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem to
be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.
There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.
Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?

No, you cannot activate the line as it will need 'connecting up' at the
exchange or local junction box. Actually, it probably is already
connected, but needs a software or actual switch turning on to make it
live.
Yes, BT connection charges are not in the real world, though I thought
it was nearer to £75 for connection.
Alan.


Considering what it costs these days to get a plumber or electrician or
builder to your house, or if you look at the hourly rate your local garage
charges, I don't think that BT's connection charges are "not in the real
world" at all - even if it is 120 quid. As a father of daughters myself, and
having been through the 'first house - save money' scenario, I can
appreciate the desire to try to help in this respect, but sometimes, the
lessons of how much it *really* costs to live in the modern world, just have
to be learnt ... :-\

Arfa

Peter smith wrote:
My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line
and BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of
money to me.

All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem
to be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.

There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.

Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?

Hoping to try and save her some money as its her first home.

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite often they
don't charge at all for activating an existing line and as Adrian says there
is/was an offer of free *installation*, which is generally a lot more work
than reconnection.

Si

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite often they
don't charge at all for activating an existing line


But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:22:24 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

Considering what it costs these days to get a plumber or electrician or
builder to your house, or if you look at the hourly rate your local
garage charges, I don't think that BT's connection charges are "not in
the real world" at all - even if it is 120 quid.

Quite, it's a bargin for a new install of a line. Say engineer on
national average wage of 24k or about £15/hr takes a morning to fully
jumper the line from the exchange to customer that £60 in wages plus
employers NI, Pension etc not to mention the costs associated with
the van for the engineer, tools and consumables.

"Same day take overs" are free non-same day have a nominal fee as
hopefully it's just a setting in the exchange card that the line
might still be connected to but there is no guarantee that an
previously used line is still connected back to the exchnage. Faults
on other lines will be cured by using "unused" pairs in the same
cable.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:22:24 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

Considering what it costs these days to get a plumber or electrician or
builder to your house, or if you look at the hourly rate your local
garage charges, I don't think that BT's connection charges are "not in
the real world" at all - even if it is 120 quid.

Quite, it's a bargin for a new install of a line. Say engineer on
national average wage of 24k or about £15/hr takes a morning to fully
jumper the line from the exchange to customer that £60 in wages plus
employers NI, Pension etc not to mention the costs associated with
the van for the engineer, tools and consumables.

"Same day take overs" are free non-same day have a nominal fee as
hopefully it's just a setting in the exchange card that the line
might still be connected to but there is no guarantee that an
previously used line is still connected back to the exchnage. Faults
on other lines will be cured by using "unused" pairs in the same
cable.

You may find that a reconnect via a third party phone supplier is cheaper.

check www.idnet.net and see. Oh £108+ VAT. same price.


At least you dont have to mess with BT tho.

Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite often they
don't charge at all for activating an existing line


But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

Difficult area.
I live 80m from the exchange (great for broadband:-)). Do I subsidise
those who live further away with longer lines and probably more maintenance?
Old chestnut about the same price for Royal Mail mis-deliveries to
remote rural houses as local post will be up next!

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:52:31 -0800 (PST), Owain
wrote:

On 10 Nov, 10:02, Bruce wrote:
Why should it be free, or subsidised? *That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it. *
I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

The principle that costs should be averaged over all subscribers dates
back to the fairly early days of the public network, on the grounds
that every new addition to the network benefited those already on it.


Nonsense. No such "principle" has ever existed.

A new line has always had to be paid for.

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:15:42 +0000, Invisible Man
wrote:

Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite often they
don't charge at all for activating an existing line


But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

Difficult area.
I live 80m from the exchange (great for broadband:-)). Do I subsidise
those who live further away with longer lines and probably more maintenance?


I also live close to the exchange. I'm happy that there is a national
standard charge for line rental. If that means that I subsidise the
maintenance of longer rural lines, that's fine by me.

What I *do* strongly object to is the expectation that I and other BT
subscribers should pay for other people's new installations.

£122 is not an unreasonable charge. No one is forcing them to have a
landline. If they want one, why should *I* have to pay for it?

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:14:17 +0000, A.Lee wrote:
No, you cannot activate the line as it will need 'connecting up' at the
exchange or local junction box. Actually, it probably is already
connected, but needs a software or actual switch turning on to make it
live.

.... so that sounds like 2 minutes work. 60 quid a minute's not a bad rate
:-)

I can understand a charge for doing some real work - but if the line's
already laid without them ever knowing if someone will want it then more
fool them; I'm not sure why the first person who happens to want it
should get stung for work that's already been done.

Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:52:31 -0800 (PST), Owain
wrote:

On 10 Nov, 10:02, Bruce wrote:
Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.
I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.
The principle that costs should be averaged over all subscribers dates
back to the fairly early days of the public network, on the grounds
that every new addition to the network benefited those already on it.


Nonsense. No such "principle" has ever existed.

A new line has always had to be paid for.

But not by the new line recipient. Its always been subsidised by the
rest of the network, and originally, the taxpayer.

That £120 covers the case even where they have to dig up 5 miles of
moorland, or sling a microwave dish in.

Jules wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:14:17 +0000, A.Lee wrote:
No, you cannot activate the line as it will need 'connecting up' at the
exchange or local junction box. Actually, it probably is already
connected, but needs a software or actual switch turning on to make it
live.

... so that sounds like 2 minutes work. 60 quid a minute's not a bad rate
:-)

I can understand a charge for doing some real work - but if the line's
already laid without them ever knowing if someone will want it then more
fool them; I'm not sure why the first person who happens to want it
should get stung for work that's already been done.


It wont be already necessarily laid.

Typically in a new build it merely means that there is a cable to
somewhere in BTs ducts.

Someone still has to go out in the cold and wet, hunker over a street
cabinet, connect some wires up, go back to the exchange, set it all up
there, go to the customers premises, check they got the right pair, if
not redo from start, check if noise is acceptable, and then drive back
to base.

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:22:24 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"A.Lee" wrote in message
. ..
Peter smith wrote:

My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of money
to me.
All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem to
be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.
There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.
Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?

No, you cannot activate the line as it will need 'connecting up' at the
exchange or local junction box. Actually, it probably is already
connected, but needs a software or actual switch turning on to make it
live.
Yes, BT connection charges are not in the real world, though I thought
it was nearer to £75 for connection.
Alan.


Considering what it costs these days to get a plumber or electrician or
builder to your house, or if you look at the hourly rate your local garage
charges, I don't think that BT's connection charges are "not in the real
world" at all - even if it is 120 quid.

And just try getting a plumber or an electrician to turn up for a job
paying that little. It's not possible IME.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:30:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That £120 covers the case even where they have to dig up 5 miles of
moorland, or sling a microwave dish in.

They try a wriggle if it is going to cost a lot of money, indeed
there may even be a get out clause these days.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:21:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You may find that a reconnect via a third party phone supplier is
cheaper.

check www.idnet.net and see. Oh £108+ VAT. same price.

At least you dont have to mess with BT tho.

Not BT Retail but BT Openreach will be involved to do the physical
work of jumpering the appropriate pair from the customers premises to
the 3rd parties kit in the exchange.


--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:21:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You may find that a reconnect via a third party phone supplier is
cheaper.

check www.idnet.net and see. Oh £108+ VAT. same price.

At least you dont have to mess with BT tho.

Not BT Retail but BT Openreach will be involved to do the physical
work of jumpering the appropriate pair from the customers premises to
the 3rd parties kit in the exchange.


Indeed, BUT you don't have to deal with their crap. Someone else does,
and best of all, you don't have to deal with BTs opaque billing systems.

OpenReach is the GOOD bit of BT, if there is such. BUT you can't get to
them unless you are trade..the bad bit is the support desk, the
marketing and the billing.

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:33:40 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jules wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:14:17 +0000, A.Lee wrote:
No, you cannot activate the line as it will need 'connecting up' at the
exchange or local junction box. Actually, it probably is already
connected, but needs a software or actual switch turning on to make it
live.

... so that sounds like 2 minutes work. 60 quid a minute's not a bad rate
:-)

I can understand a charge for doing some real work - but if the line's
already laid without them ever knowing if someone will want it then more
fool them; I'm not sure why the first person who happens to want it
should get stung for work that's already been done.

It wont be already necessarily laid.

Typically in a new build it merely means that there is a cable to
somewhere in BTs ducts.

Someone still has to go out in the cold and wet, hunker over a street
cabinet, connect some wires up, go back to the exchange, set it all up
there, go to the customers premises, check they got the right pair, if
not redo from start, check if noise is acceptable, and then drive back
to base.

Yes, I can understand that costing real money - but it seems unfair to
lump it on one resident if the cable is already there and the work
involved is minimal. I'm getting the impression that BT don't make the
distinction though and just charge anyway.

It's not necessarily a nice little earner for them of course because the
work's still been done by them at some point - but I'm quite surprised
that if it *has* been done then it hasn't already somehow been absorbed
into the development costs for the new build.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:34:58 -0600, Jules wrote:

It's not necessarily a nice little earner for them of course because the
work's still been done by them at some point - but I'm quite surprised
that if it *has* been done then it hasn't already somehow been absorbed
into the development costs for the new build.

Usually BT pay the builder for their part in the work. But that only
covers the costs from the house back to some local connection point - BT
still provide the connection to the exchange, and the exchange equipment.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:22:06 +0000, Peter smith wrote:

My neice moved into a new build flat, its has a white bt phone line and
BT will charge £122.50 to activate it! which sounds like a lot of money
to me.

All the wiring is done and there is a phone line 3 rooms. Which seem to
be wired up to a grey box on the outside of the property.

There is no dial tone when a phone is plugged in.

Is there anyway I can activate the line or does this require some
special equipment to do ?

Hoping to try and save her some money as its her first home.


Talk Talk put in a new line for 59.99 - but you are on a 2 year contract
IIRC. Pretty good on calls too so probably worth looking at if they are
available at that exchange.

I've just been through this as my BT line was disconnected years ago.

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite
often they don't charge at all for activating an existing line


But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done, surely,
or am I missing something?

Si

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite
often they don't charge at all for activating an existing line

But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done, surely,
or am I missing something?

Si


Yes you are missing something. Work out how much it costs to provide
that cable, and who paid for it. It was explained to me by a BT manager
it can take some years before a line returns a profit.

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:49:05 +0000, Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot wrote:

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done,
surely, or am I missing something?

Yes. All that's there is a wire back to a local connection point. It
still needs to be connected back to the exchange. BT will have multi-core
cables running between various connection points, but someone has to get
in there and connect up spare pairs back to the exchange. That can take
some time (I watched them do it, in part, when they connected the extra
line so I could have ADSL).

Not to mention connecting it to the exchange equipment, testing it and so
on.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

James Salisbury nntp.dsl.pipex.com
wibbled on Tuesday 10 November 2009 21:05


Yes you are missing something. Work out how much it costs to provide
that cable, and who paid for it. It was explained to me by a BT manager
it can take some years before a line returns a profit.

Yes - but the lifetime of the cable should be quite a lot longer. I think it
would be quite reasonable to get a single[1] line installed for nowt on the
expectation that BT *will* derive a profit from it in the medium term. The
number of cases of someone installing a line, then lapsing it after a
couple of years must be quite small.

[1] I can understand a case of charging if one customer wants more than one
line as the probability of a future encumbent using and paying line
rental[2] on those lines is also perhaps small.

[2] My reasoning is that you have to pay line rental anyway - guaranteed
revenue even if you make sod all calls. To draw a parallel, you don't pay
the car hire place to buy their new cars - that's factored into the rent
you and all future hirers pay.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:49:05 +0000, Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot
wrote:

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done,
surely, or am I missing something?

Yes. All that's there is a wire back to a local connection point. It
still needs to be connected back to the exchange. BT will have
multi-core cables running between various connection points, but
someone has to get in there and connect up spare pairs back to the
exchange. That can take some time (I watched them do it, in part,
when they connected the extra line so I could have ADSL).

Not to mention connecting it to the exchange equipment, testing it
and so on.

Then why do they offer free installations on a regular basis?

Si

James Salisbury wrote:
Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite
often they don't charge at all for activating an existing line

But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done,
surely, or am I missing something?

Si


Yes you are missing something. Work out how much it costs to provide
that cable, and who paid for it. It was explained to me by a BT
manager it can take some years before a line returns a profit.

Then why do they offer free installations on a regular basis?

Si

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:27:07 +0000, Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot wrote:

Then why do they offer free installations on a regular basis?

Marketing.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:49:05 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
had this to say:

Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite
often they don't charge at all for activating an existing line


But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done, surely,
or am I missing something?

You're missing something.

There isn't (normally) a single pair going back to the exchange from
your premises. Lines go through one or more 'flexibility points'
(cabinets and, at one time (there are still a few!) pillars), as well
as the actual DP (pole or wall-mounted distribution point).

In the 60s, the predicted takeup of telephone service was typically
assumed as some 20 - 50% of premises (this was assessed by the Sales
Group), and would certainly assume no more than one line per premise.

These flexibility points allowed (obviously) some variation across an
area, but there were (are) some cases where there are loads of local
wires, but few spare ones to the exchange. In many cases link pairs
were provided between cabinets so that the PO could enable service
under varying circumstances.

Nowadays, it's even more complicated. Many (even residential) premises
have more than one line; others use lines provided by cable TV
companies, or purely mobile phones.

Clearly Openreach want to maximise use of their copper (or sometimes
aluminium) wires around the place.

--
Frank Erskine

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:27:07 -0000 Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote :
Then why do they offer free installations on a regular basis?

"Free" with a lock-in period?

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:51 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

Have BT actually said they'll definitely make the charge? Quite
often they don't charge at all for activating an existing line

But it is a *new* line! New property, new line.

Why should it be free, or subsidised? That would only mean that
existing BT subscribers would be paying for it.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should pay for someone else's new
phone line.

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done, surely,
or am I missing something?

I dont see why I should pay for someone elses baby, someone elses
education, someone elses bloody windmill, and someone elses wars.

I'd settle for a phone line, anyday.
Si

Tim W wrote:
James Salisbury nntp.dsl.pipex.com
wibbled on Tuesday 10 November 2009 21:05


Yes you are missing something. Work out how much it costs to provide
that cable, and who paid for it. It was explained to me by a BT manager
it can take some years before a line returns a profit.

Yes - but the lifetime of the cable should be quite a lot longer. I think it
would be quite reasonable to get a single[1] line installed for nowt on the
expectation that BT *will* derive a profit from it in the medium term.

Not if the moment the contract is up you switch to someone else.

DE regulation means BT the customer retail cant make a profit on you to
cover BT openreach the connector.

so you get cheaper calls, more expensive installation.

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:49:05 +0000, Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot
wrote:

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done,
surely, or am I missing something?
Yes. All that's there is a wire back to a local connection point. It
still needs to be connected back to the exchange. BT will have
multi-core cables running between various connection points, but
someone has to get in there and connect up spare pairs back to the
exchange. That can take some time (I watched them do it, in part,
when they connected the extra line so I could have ADSL).

Not to mention connecting it to the exchange equipment, testing it
and so on.

Then why do they offer free installations on a regular basis?


Probably with a two year contract or somesuch.

Si

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:21:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You may find that a reconnect via a third party phone supplier is
cheaper.

check www.idnet.net and see. Oh £108+ VAT. same price.

At least you dont have to mess with BT tho.

Not BT Retail but BT Openreach will be involved to do the physical
work of jumpering the appropriate pair from the customers premises to
the 3rd parties kit in the exchange.


Indeed, BUT you don't have to deal with their crap. Someone else does,
and best of all, you don't have to deal with BTs opaque billing systems.

OpenReach is the GOOD bit of BT, if there is such. BUT you can't get to
them unless you are trade..the bad bit is the support desk, the marketing
and the billing.

Just as a matter of interest, what do you find wrong with the way that BT
handles its billing ? I have always found mine to be totally concise and
clear to understand, especially the on-line version, which allows me to
examine the cost of every item, in detail, right up to last night.

Arfa

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:14:17 +0000, A.Lee wrote:
No, you cannot activate the line as it will need 'connecting up' at the
exchange or local junction box. Actually, it probably is already
connected, but needs a software or actual switch turning on to make it
live.

... so that sounds like 2 minutes work. 60 quid a minute's not a bad rate
:-)

I can understand a charge for doing some real work - but if the line's
already laid without them ever knowing if someone will want it then more
fool them; I'm not sure why the first person who happens to want it
should get stung for work that's already been done.



"More fool them ..." seems like a bit of an odd sentiment. How else do you
imagine that the real commercial world does, or *could* work ? If every
physical line had to be put in on an 'as required' basis, the cost would be
a lot higher than 120 quid ... I don't suppose that customers would be too
happy at having a retrofitted cable strung all around their nice new house,
either.

Arfa

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:42:23 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:



"More fool them ..." seems like a bit of an odd sentiment. How else do you
imagine that the real commercial world does, or *could* work ? If every
physical line had to be put in on an 'as required' basis, the cost would be
a lot higher than 120 quid ... I don't suppose that customers would be too
happy at having a retrofitted cable strung all around their nice new house,
either.


There would come a point above which the amount of installation work
going on "went critical" and would never be finished because new
installations were being requested faster that existing ones were
finished. I.E. The BT vans would always be continuously on site.

AFAICS the water co's and "gaspipes-R-us" or whatever they call
themselves this week, work like that already round here creating their
ubiquitous holes in the ground, and are pilloried by the public for
their trouble.

Derek

Arfa Daily wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:21:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You may find that a reconnect via a third party phone supplier is
cheaper.

check www.idnet.net and see. Oh £108+ VAT. same price.

At least you dont have to mess with BT tho.
Not BT Retail but BT Openreach will be involved to do the physical
work of jumpering the appropriate pair from the customers premises to
the 3rd parties kit in the exchange.


Indeed, BUT you don't have to deal with their crap. Someone else does,
and best of all, you don't have to deal with BTs opaque billing systems.

OpenReach is the GOOD bit of BT, if there is such. BUT you can't get to
them unless you are trade..the bad bit is the support desk, the marketing
and the billing.

Just as a matter of interest, what do you find wrong with the way that BT
handles its billing ? I have always found mine to be totally concise and
clear to understand, especially the on-line version, which allows me to
examine the cost of every item, in detail, right up to last night.


well basically I had two accounts, they had to be accesses separately,
and they weren't itemised, and I was paying a fortiune, and BT people
kept pestering me with incomprehensible deals, and if things went wrong
it was a 27 layer switch board 'press one, press 2' and then I got cut
off. Or put to to someone incomprehensible. Probably in Galashiels. Or
Bombay. Hard to tell.



Arfa