Any Henry vacuum cleaner geeks out there?

++++++++++++

Today Henry # 1 stopped working. It was running very hot and under load and
I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". Went back 30 minutes
later and it worked fine.

When investigating I found that even on "no load" (ie the motor assembly
completely removed from bag and filter) the exhaust air was still
surprisingly warm.

So I made a comparison with our other very much newer Henry (lets call him
Henry # 2). On this one the exhaust is not so noticeably warm under the
same circumstances.

So I investigated further.

Henry # 1 (old) states 850W motor and draws 4.45 Amps at idle.

Henry # 2 (new) states 1000W motor and draws 3.95 Amps at idle.

Methinks there's something wrong with Henry # 1....which seems to be
converting about an Amp of supply current straight into heat!!!!

++++++++++++

Q1. Are these symptoms consistent with a simple-to-fix fault? (ie change
the motor or similar)

Q2. If so is the motor easy to change (I assume so as spares are readily
available).

.....or should I just go to Homebase and buy a new one (currently on offer at
£85) and keep the old for parts

Any opinions appreciated.

D

"Vortex3" wrote in message
...
Any Henry vacuum cleaner geeks out there?

++++++++++++

Today Henry # 1 stopped working. It was running very hot and under load
and I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". Went back 30
minutes later and it worked fine.

When investigating I found that even on "no load" (ie the motor assembly
completely removed from bag and filter) the exhaust air was still
surprisingly warm.

So I made a comparison with our other very much newer Henry (lets call him
Henry # 2). On this one the exhaust is not so noticeably warm under the
same circumstances.

So I investigated further.

Henry # 1 (old) states 850W motor and draws 4.45 Amps at idle.

Henry # 2 (new) states 1000W motor and draws 3.95 Amps at idle.

Methinks there's something wrong with Henry # 1....which seems to be
converting about an Amp of supply current straight into heat!!!!

++++++++++++

Q1. Are these symptoms consistent with a simple-to-fix fault? (ie
change the motor or similar)

Q2. If so is the motor easy to change (I assume so as spares are
readily available).

....or should I just go to Homebase and buy a new one (currently on offer
at £85) and keep the old for parts

The motor assembly in the Henry range (And others from Nu-Matic) uses air
drawn in through the hole in the motor base through curved fins within the
rotor fan section to provide suction and motor cooling.
Dust and dirt adheres to the fins causing slow airflow, reduced suction and
motor overload. Hence your need to cool it down and the thermal trip to
reset
*Usually* the fan housing is NOT able to be disassembled easily.
You can soak the bottom section containing the "fan" in warm soapy water,
agitating by gently shaking the unit by hand in the water/soap mix until the
debris and silt is cleared. DO NOT ALLOW WATER INGRESS HIGHER THAN THE TOP
OF THE FAN BASE. Flush with clean water only after cleaning prior to
allowing to dry., DO NOT use compressed air to dry as this can distort the
fins and lead to imbalance.
IT IS ESSENTIAL that the unit is dry before re-use. DO NOT UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES use the assembly until properly dry or the same result will
happen, blocked fins.


Motors are available through Nu Matic http://www.numatic.co.uk/ or some good
hire shops.

(Ex Hire trade engineer looking after 150 of these extremely good, hard
working units and their larger "brothers")

In article ,
"Vortex3" writes:
Any Henry vacuum cleaner geeks out there?

++++++++++++

Today Henry # 1 stopped working. It was running very hot and under load and
I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". Went back 30 minutes
later and it worked fine.

When investigating I found that even on "no load" (ie the motor assembly
completely removed from bag and filter) the exhaust air was still
surprisingly warm.

So I made a comparison with our other very much newer Henry (lets call him
Henry # 2). On this one the exhaust is not so noticeably warm under the
same circumstances.

So I investigated further.

Henry # 1 (old) states 850W motor and draws 4.45 Amps at idle.

Henry # 2 (new) states 1000W motor and draws 3.95 Amps at idle.

Methinks there's something wrong with Henry # 1....which seems to be
converting about an Amp of supply current straight into heat!!!!

++++++++++++

Q1. Are these symptoms consistent with a simple-to-fix fault? (ie change
the motor or similar)

Q2. If so is the motor easy to change (I assume so as spares are readily
available).

....or should I just go to Homebase and buy a new one (currently on offer at
£85) and keep the old for parts

Any opinions appreciated.

I'm not intimately familiar with Henrys (have used a couple which
weren't mine and found them rather useless), but I assume it has a
universal motor (i.e. with commutator and brushes).

These are rather inefficient and rely on a good airflow to remove
the heat. If airflow is restricted (blocked filter, or coupled up to
something which doesn't allow enough airflow), the motor can overheat
and be permanently damaged in a way which generates more heat (don't
assume a thermal cutout will do so before damage is done). Common
damage is a shorted winding (most commonly on the armature, but can
be a field winding), or a bearing which has gone stiff.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"Vortex3" writes:
Any Henry vacuum cleaner geeks out there?

++++++++++++

Today Henry # 1 stopped working. It was running very hot and under load
and
I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". Went back 30 minutes
later and it worked fine.

When investigating I found that even on "no load" (ie the motor assembly
completely removed from bag and filter) the exhaust air was still
surprisingly warm.

So I made a comparison with our other very much newer Henry (lets call
him
Henry # 2). On this one the exhaust is not so noticeably warm under the
same circumstances.

So I investigated further.

Henry # 1 (old) states 850W motor and draws 4.45 Amps at idle.

Henry # 2 (new) states 1000W motor and draws 3.95 Amps at idle.

Methinks there's something wrong with Henry # 1....which seems to be
converting about an Amp of supply current straight into heat!!!!

++++++++++++

Q1. Are these symptoms consistent with a simple-to-fix fault? (ie
change
the motor or similar)

Q2. If so is the motor easy to change (I assume so as spares are
readily
available).

....or should I just go to Homebase and buy a new one (currently on offer
at
£85) and keep the old for parts

Any opinions appreciated.

I'm not intimately familiar with Henrys (have used a couple which
weren't mine and found them rather useless), but I assume it has a
universal motor (i.e. with commutator and brushes).

Your non familiarity is blatantly obvious as you know little about the
product.
The hire trade uses these units *because* of their reliability, spares
availability, sturdiness and longevity
I personally have 2 units *because* of these reasons and have also used
frequently the "Wet-Vac" version twin motor unit which is suited to damp and
flooded floor type environments.An extremely robust and tough unit.


These are rather inefficient and rely on a good airflow to remove
the heat. If airflow is restricted (blocked filter, or coupled up to
something which doesn't allow enough airflow), the motor can overheat
and be permanently damaged in a way which generates more heat (don't
assume a thermal cutout will do so before damage is done). Common
damage is a shorted winding (most commonly on the armature, but can
be a field winding), or a bearing which has gone stiff.

Inefficiency during normal standard use is relatively insignificant in the
case of the single motor units from Nu-Matic.
The suction capability is as good as any modern cyclonic units, and is
usually defeated by the user leaving out any filter or pre-filter from the
unit in an attempt to increase suction. Missing out the bag also causes
premature failure especially if the pre filter is missing also.
Failure of the motor bearings is extremely rare in these units, and brush
failure is found after hundreds of hours use in heavy industrial
applications. Brush exchange is a simple job to undertake and unless the
unit is used inappropriately in wet conditions the armatures rarely fail.
Thermal cut-out, fuse failure or cable fatigue is usually the normal reason
for complete unit failure, followed closely by the user using the unit for
something it is not designed for.
I have personally experienced a user using a simple Henry to remove bilge
water from a boat hull. With the expected (After 3 mins) interesting
electrical pyrotechnics ;-)

On Aug 9, 9:45*pm, "R" wrote:
Today Henry # 1 stopped working. *It was running very hot and under load
and
I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". * Went back 30 minutes
later and it worked fine.
Interestingly I too have two Henry machines. I rescued one from being
dropped off at the local tip before the workers there spied it :-)
Anyway, it works ok but suffers from the overheating that OP mentions.
Its hardly worth having it repaired by a shop since they'll charge at
least £40 and this is uk.diy!
I'm interested that R suggests soaking the bottom part of the machine
to loosen dirt, but don't feel quite willing to risk it. If i start
removing screws from the case, can I get to the same part so I can see
what is being immersed?

Dave.

On 09 Aug 2009 20:28:52 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

I'm not intimately familiar with Henrys (have used a couple which
weren't mine and found them rather useless),

What IS your favoured sucking machine?

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Vortex3" writes:
Any Henry vacuum cleaner geeks out there?

++++++++++++

Today Henry # 1 stopped working. It was running very hot and under
load and I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". Went
back 30 minutes later and it worked fine.

When investigating I found that even on "no load" (ie the motor
assembly completely removed from bag and filter) the exhaust air was
still surprisingly warm.

So I made a comparison with our other very much newer Henry (lets
call him Henry # 2). On this one the exhaust is not so noticeably
warm under the same circumstances.

So I investigated further.

Henry # 1 (old) states 850W motor and draws 4.45 Amps at idle.

Henry # 2 (new) states 1000W motor and draws 3.95 Amps at idle.

Methinks there's something wrong with Henry # 1....which seems to be
converting about an Amp of supply current straight into heat!!!!

++++++++++++

Q1. Are these symptoms consistent with a simple-to-fix fault?
(ie change the motor or similar)

Q2. If so is the motor easy to change (I assume so as spares are
readily available).

....or should I just go to Homebase and buy a new one (currently on
offer at £85) and keep the old for parts

Any opinions appreciated.

I'm not intimately familiar with Henrys (have used a couple which
weren't mine and found them rather useless), but I assume it has a
universal motor (i.e. with commutator and brushes).

Never come across a vacuum cleaner that didn't use a universal motor.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Vortex3 wrote:
Any Henry vacuum cleaner geeks out there?

Yup!

++++++++++++

Today Henry # 1 stopped working. It was running very hot and under
load and I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". Went back
30 minutes later and it worked fine.

There is a TOL which will reset when it cools down. However its a warning
that if you don't sort the problem the motor will burn out. TOL's on this
sort of machine become more sensitive every time they operate & will soon
fail in the 'off' mode.

When investigating I found that even on "no load" (ie the motor
assembly completely removed from bag and filter) the exhaust air was
still surprisingly warm.

So I made a comparison with our other very much newer Henry (lets
call him Henry # 2). On this one the exhaust is not so noticeably
warm under the same circumstances.

So I investigated further.

Henry # 1 (old) states 850W motor and draws 4.45 Amps at idle.

Henry # 2 (new) states 1000W motor and draws 3.95 Amps at idle.

Methinks there's something wrong with Henry # 1....which seems to be
converting about an Amp of supply current straight into heat!!!!

++++++++++++

Q1. Are these symptoms consistent with a simple-to-fix fault? (ie
change the motor or similar)

The motors in Henrys are direct cooled e.g. the air being sucked up the hose
is then blown over the motor to cool it down. Anything restricting the
airflow, partly blocked hose, filter etc will cause excess heat.

Q2. If so is the motor easy to change (I assume so as spares are
readily available).

Doddle. A kid could do it. Spares are common & plentifull, even patent
parts are available. http://www.wcsuk.com/acatalog/Numatic_Motors.html is
one source, but find exactly what motor you need & Google for prices,
hundreds of places sell Numatic parts.

....or should I just go to Homebase and buy a new one (currently on
offer at £85) and keep the old for parts

If you change the motor you effectively have a new machine, roughly half the
cost.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

R wrote:

SNIP very sensible advice

(Ex Hire trade engineer looking after 150 of these extremely good,
hard working units and their larger "brothers")

Numatic for vacs, Honda for anything with a petrol engine huh? Who did you
work for?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Dave Starling" wrote in message
...
On Aug 9, 9:45 pm, "R" wrote:
Today Henry # 1 stopped working. It was running very hot and under load
and
I assume some kind of thermal cut out "cut out". Went back 30 minutes
later and it worked fine.
Interestingly I too have two Henry machines. I rescued one from being
dropped off at the local tip before the workers there spied it :-)
Anyway, it works ok but suffers from the overheating that OP mentions.
Its hardly worth having it repaired by a shop since they'll charge at
least £40 and this is uk.diy!
I'm interested that R suggests soaking the bottom part of the machine
to loosen dirt, but don't feel quite willing to risk it. If i start
removing screws from the case, can I get to the same part so I can see
what is being immersed?


Dave,

On the motor case remove the power cord retaining screw clamp.
Remove the 3 cross head screws in the bottom of the top section that houses
the motor.
Remove the top cover watching for the foam pad that will fall out usually.
Detach the motor wires.
Dunk the motor base itself in warm soapy water and agitate until you think
it's clean.
Repeat as there will still be a lot of crud in there.
Leave to dry somewhere for a day or more after shaking vigorously to remove
excess water.
Reassemble.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
R wrote:

SNIP very sensible advice

(Ex Hire trade engineer looking after 150 of these extremely good,
hard working units and their larger "brothers")

Numatic for vacs, Honda for anything with a petrol engine huh? Who did
you work for?

Small independent in Eltham SE London.

You forgot Iseki or Yanmar for the diggers, dumpers and some screeders as
well......

Oh................and.....................Belle 4/3 Mixers......


And Bosch 4, 5, 9 and 12" Angle grinders........


Makita battery units.

etc etc etc etc etc

Dave,

On the motor case remove the power cord retaining screw clamp.
Remove the ******** 3 ******** cross head screws in the bottom of the top
section that houses the motor.
Remove the top cover watching for the foam pad that will fall out usually.
Detach the motor wires.
Dunk the motor base itself in warm soapy water and agitate until you think
it's clean.
Repeat as there will still be a lot of crud in there.
Leave to dry somewhere for a day or more after shaking vigorously to
remove excess water.
Reassemble.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 22:51:51 UTC, Owain
wrote:

On 9 Aug, 23:08, Laurence Payne wrote:
What IS your favoured sucking machine?

Noticed in a shop t'other day they now have Hetty (Henrietta) as well.

Are they all pink? All the Hettys I've seen have been...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

R wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
R wrote:

SNIP very sensible advice

(Ex Hire trade engineer looking after 150 of these extremely good,
hard working units and their larger "brothers")

Numatic for vacs, Honda for anything with a petrol engine huh? Who
did you work for?

Small independent in Eltham SE London.

Andara?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
Dave Starling writes:
Interestingly I too have two Henry machines. I rescued one from being
dropped off at the local tip before the workers there spied it :-)
Anyway, it works ok but suffers from the overheating that OP mentions.
Its hardly worth having it repaired by a shop since they'll charge at
least £40 and this is uk.diy!
I'm interested that R suggests soaking the bottom part of the machine
to loosen dirt, but don't feel quite willing to risk it. If i start
removing screws from the case, can I get to the same part so I can see
what is being immersed?

You haven't given enough info to diagnose.

If the airway is blocked, the motor load is reduced because
it's not doing anything, hence the motor speeds up, and power
consumption drops.

If the motor is losing power internally (usually due to damage),
the motor slows down, and power consumption increases.

In both cases, the motor can overheat, so that alone doesn't
indicate the cause. The OP gave enough info to identify the
latter (motor is losing power internally -- it could have
started with overheating due to blocked airflow, but if so,
it has gone past that to motor damage now). You haven't
given enough info to identify which scenario applies.

If you momentarily block the airflow of a vacuum cleaner, you
will hear it speed up as in the first case, except that if it
is already blocked, it won't speed up as much as it will
already been running faster than it should. If you are using
a vacuum cleaner you're familiar with, this is a good test to
do occasionally to check for blockage, to make sure you get
the expected speed up if you block the airflow for a couple
of seconds. If the speed up is less than normal, then it is
probably already partially blocked, and that should be
investigated. Don't rely on thermal trips to protect motors;
a big problem with them is that when they trip, cooling
stops instantly, but heat will still be working its way out
from hot areas, and increase temperature of other parts and
damage them during the time the motor is tripped out. (This
is why when you overheat a drill motor, you should run it
for a while at full speed no load to cool it, and not just
stop using it, which is much more likely to wreck it.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

You haven't given enough info to diagnose.

If the airway is blocked, the motor load is reduced because
it's not doing anything, hence the motor speeds up, and power
consumption drops.

If the motor is losing power internally (usually due to damage),
the motor slows down, and power consumption increases.

In both cases, the motor can overheat, so that alone doesn't
indicate the cause. The OP gave enough info to identify the
latter (motor is losing power internally -- it could have
started with overheating due to blocked airflow, but if so,
it has gone past that to motor damage now). You haven't
given enough info to identify which scenario applies.

If you momentarily block the airflow of a vacuum cleaner, you
will hear it speed up as in the first case, except that if it
is already blocked, it won't speed up as much as it will
already been running faster than it should. If you are using
a vacuum cleaner you're familiar with, this is a good test to
do occasionally to check for blockage, to make sure you get
the expected speed up if you block the airflow for a couple
of seconds. If the speed up is less than normal, then it is
probably already partially blocked, and that should be
investigated. Don't rely on thermal trips to protect motors;
a big problem with them is that when they trip, cooling
stops instantly, but heat will still be working its way out
from hot areas, and increase temperature of other parts and
damage them during the time the motor is tripped out. (This
is why when you overheat a drill motor, you should run it
for a while at full speed no load to cool it, and not just
stop using it, which is much more likely to wreck it.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]



OP Here........

Thanks for your help all.

I am inclined to think the motor is "borked" because of the high current
usage even on no load

The overheating has been a sudden phenomenon.....though no boubt internal
blockages could have contributed.

Since replacement is apparentluy simple I will pick up a new one in due
course.....and decrud the fan while I am at it.

David

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
R wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
R wrote:

SNIP very sensible advice

(Ex Hire trade engineer looking after 150 of these extremely good,
hard working units and their larger "brothers")

Numatic for vacs, Honda for anything with a petrol engine huh? Who
did you work for?

Small independent in Eltham SE London.

Andara?

*ding*
Give the boy a cigar.....

replying to The Medway Handyman, Wingnuts wrote:
Hi, I have a Henry NVR200 which is over heating.

I've stripped it down and cleaned it as best I can.. The brushed have about
15mm left on them and the fans underneath the motor were pretty clean but I
soaked them in warm soapy water nonetheless and then used a bottle brush to
get in-between them. I then attached a drill to the nut and ensuring the
correct direction I spun it up to dry out any moisture that remained, if any.

The lack of obvious fluff and dirt and that it was pretty clean in the first
place bothered me; I was expecting something more significant to explain the
tripping of the thermal cut-out. I cleaned everything and re-assembled Henry.

There was a noticeable improvement in the suction and the motor didn't trip
out...... until just now.

So, before I strip it down again, could the thermal cut-out be faulty? I'm
guessing it's unlikely as Henry runs for a short time before it cuts out, then
it starts up again. I'm guessing this is due to the thermal cut-out cooling
slightly etc etc.

Does anyone have any advise on troubleshooting the actual cause or a process
of elimination I should follow?

I know this post is over 10 years old, but I have faith in you lot

Thanks in advance,

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...er-575414-.htm

On Wednesday, 22 July 2020 21:14:05 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to The Medway Handyman, Wingnuts wrote:
Hi, I have a Henry NVR200 which is over heating.

I've stripped it down and cleaned it as best I can.. The brushed have about
15mm left on them and the fans underneath the motor were pretty clean but I
soaked them in warm soapy water nonetheless and then used a bottle brush to
get in-between them. I then attached a drill to the nut and ensuring the
correct direction I spun it up to dry out any moisture that remained, if any.

The lack of obvious fluff and dirt and that it was pretty clean in the first
place bothered me; I was expecting something more significant to explain the
tripping of the thermal cut-out. I cleaned everything and re-assembled Henry.

There was a noticeable improvement in the suction and the motor didn't trip
out...... until just now.

So, before I strip it down again, could the thermal cut-out be faulty? I'm
guessing it's unlikely as Henry runs for a short time before it cuts out, then
it starts up again. I'm guessing this is due to the thermal cut-out cooling
slightly etc etc.

Does anyone have any advise on troubleshooting the actual cause or a process
of elimination I should follow?

I know this post is over 10 years old, but I have faith in you lot

Thanks in advance,

I'd check its idle current and/or lube the bearings.
Used vacs also benefit from clearing the airpath out & cleaning/replacing filters.


NT

Filters first, wash them all and you will be surprised. Also, what about the
brushes and the commutator, these can wear to the point that the arcing
melts the metal or underlying plastic and the motor, to use a technical term
is knackered. Also of cours as I discovered with a Vax, it seems some motors
are just not very good for very long.
I did have a Hoover that was doing as you describe, one of those old Junior
types, and that in the end turned out to have a gradually lowering
resistance on one of the coils in the motor, and eventually just stopped
working and blew the fuse.

After all these motors do have a hard life when you think about it.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 22 July 2020 21:14:05 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to The Medway Handyman, Wingnuts wrote:
Hi, I have a Henry NVR200 which is over heating.

I've stripped it down and cleaned it as best I can.. The brushed have
about
15mm left on them and the fans underneath the motor were pretty clean but
I
soaked them in warm soapy water nonetheless and then used a bottle brush
to
get in-between them. I then attached a drill to the nut and ensuring the
correct direction I spun it up to dry out any moisture that remained, if
any.

The lack of obvious fluff and dirt and that it was pretty clean in the
first
place bothered me; I was expecting something more significant to explain
the
tripping of the thermal cut-out. I cleaned everything and re-assembled
Henry.

There was a noticeable improvement in the suction and the motor didn't
trip
out...... until just now.

So, before I strip it down again, could the thermal cut-out be faulty?
I'm
guessing it's unlikely as Henry runs for a short time before it cuts out,
then
it starts up again. I'm guessing this is due to the thermal cut-out
cooling
slightly etc etc.

Does anyone have any advise on troubleshooting the actual cause or a
process
of elimination I should follow?

I know this post is over 10 years old, but I have faith in you lot

Thanks in advance,

I'd check its idle current and/or lube the bearings.
Used vacs also benefit from clearing the airpath out & cleaning/replacing
filters.


NT

On 23/07/2020 08:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Filters first, wash them all and you will be surprised. Also, what about the
brushes and the commutator, these can wear to the point that the arcing
melts the metal or underlying plastic and the motor, to use a technical term
is knackered. Also of cours as I discovered with a Vax, it seems some motors
are just not very good for very long.

Also check the obvious the flexible tube attached to his nose.

This can become partially blocked especially when clearing up DIY
rubbish and reduce the airflow into the internals and cooling air to the
motor.

Possibly compare the suction at Henry's nose with the tube removed and
then again with the tube fitted.

I've found that sometimes the only way to clear the blockage in the
flexible hose is to use a garden hose and fill the tube with water and
then quickly release all the water. Repeat so the water flows both ways.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 23/07/2020 08:49, alan_m wrote:
On 23/07/2020 08:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Filters first, wash them all and you will be surprised. Also, what
about the
brushes and the commutator, these can wear to the point that the arcing
melts the metal or underlying plastic and the motor, to use a
technical term
is knackered. Also of cours as I discovered with a Vax, it seems some
motors
are just not very good for very long.

Also check the obviousÂ* the flexible tube attached to his nose.

This can become partially blocked especially when clearing up DIY
rubbish and reduce the airflow into the internals and cooling air to the
motor.

Possibly compare the suction at Henry's nose with the tube removed and
then again with the tube fitted.

I've found that sometimes the only way to clear the blockage in the
flexible hose is to use a garden hose and fill the tube with water and
then quickly release all the water. Repeat so the water flows both ways.


In the limit a new hose is not that expensive/

new bag, new filter new hose. But first of all see if it overheats with
none of those. If it does get a new motor.

https://www.espares.co.uk/browse/mt2...ic-henry/henry



--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On Thursday, 23 July 2020 08:49:35 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 23/07/2020 08:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Filters first, wash them all and you will be surprised. Also, what about the
brushes and the commutator, these can wear to the point that the arcing
melts the metal or underlying plastic and the motor, to use a technical term
is knackered. Also of cours as I discovered with a Vax, it seems some motors
are just not very good for very long.

Also check the obvious the flexible tube attached to his nose.

This can become partially blocked especially when clearing up DIY
rubbish and reduce the airflow into the internals and cooling air to the
motor.

Possibly compare the suction at Henry's nose with the tube removed and
then again with the tube fitted.

I've found that sometimes the only way to clear the blockage in the
flexible hose is to use a garden hose and fill the tube with water and
then quickly release all the water. Repeat so the water flows both ways.

Fill mostly full with water. Cover ends with hands. Shake vigorously up & down. That'll clear even a severe dirt blockage, but not a trapped wire.


NT

On 23/07/2020 08:56:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip.

new bag, new filter new hose. But first of all see if it overheats with
none of those. If it does get a new motor.

https://www.espares.co.uk/browse/mt2...ic-henry/henry

Before changing motors I would check that cooling air is actually
getting to the motor. There's a lot of heat to get rid of.

wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 July 2020 21:14:05 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to The Medway Handyman, Wingnuts wrote:
Hi, I have a Henry NVR200 which is over heating.

I've stripped it down and cleaned it as best I can.. The brushed have about
15mm left on them and the fans underneath the motor were pretty clean but I
soaked them in warm soapy water nonetheless and then used a bottle brush to
get in-between them. I then attached a drill to the nut and ensuring the
correct direction I spun it up to dry out any moisture that remained, if any.

The lack of obvious fluff and dirt and that it was pretty clean in the first
place bothered me; I was expecting something more significant to explain the
tripping of the thermal cut-out. I cleaned everything and re-assembled Henry.

There was a noticeable improvement in the suction and the motor didn't trip
out...... until just now.

So, before I strip it down again, could the thermal cut-out be faulty? I'm
guessing it's unlikely as Henry runs for a short time before it cuts out, then
it starts up again. I'm guessing this is due to the thermal cut-out cooling
slightly etc etc.

Does anyone have any advise on troubleshooting the actual cause or a process
of elimination I should follow?

I know this post is over 10 years old, but I have faith in you lot

Thanks in advance,

I'd check its idle current and/or lube the bearings.
Used vacs also benefit from clearing the airpath out & cleaning/replacing filters.


NT

http://www.wobblycogs.co.uk/electron...c-henry-motor/

"Start by simply giving the motor a good visual inspection. If the insulation
in the windings has failed youll likely see sooty burn marks somewhere on
either the stator or the rotor. The most common location for a failure is
just under the commutator (the divided copper area the brushes run on)."

Using your Kill-O-Watt meter, the vacuum power consumption is
likely way out of line with reality.

Without any special prep, I just checked my vacuum cleaner.

Nameplate rating: 7.4 amps
Test (tube open): 6.2 amps (bag is full though)
Test (tube closed): 6.8 amps

I was expecting a lower reading, but I guess the full
bag is doing that to the power.

And the meter has trouble measuring the power,
because motors like that one run dirty. There would
be a lot of sparks coming off that commutator
and brush assembly.

But at least the power footprint, is less than the nameplate.

Paul

replying to tabbypurr, Wingnuts wrote:
Thanks for your quick reply.

How do I check the idle current and lube the bearings? If you don't mind
answering what I imagine is something I should know how to do.

I was unable to dismantle the motor any further than removing it from the
Henry itself. I was hoping to be able to remove the outer housing to expose
the fins in the hope that it was actually clogged up and therefore the cause
of the overheating. But as I dismantled it, and the lack of any real build up
of debris, I was, and still am, fearing that the motor is on it's way out.

Lastly, I read somewhere, maybe here, that you can wash the filter and even
the hose on a low temp wash, is that something you are aware of or would or
wouldn't recommend doing? Ensuring that they are bone dry before reassembly.

Thanks once again for any help.

Wingnuts.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...er-575414-.htm

On 23/07/2020 14:10, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 July 2020 21:14:05 UTC+1, WingnutsÂ* wrote:
replying to The Medway Handyman, Wingnuts wrote:
Hi, I have a Henry NVR200 which is over heating.

I've stripped it down and cleaned it as best I can..Â* The brushed
have about
15mm left on them and the fans underneath the motor were pretty clean
but I
soaked them in warm soapy water nonetheless and then used a bottle
brush to
get in-between them.Â* I then attached a drill to the nut and ensuring
the
correct direction I spun it up to dry out any moisture that remained,
if any.

The lack of obvious fluff and dirt and that it was pretty clean in
the first
place bothered me; I was expecting something more significant to
explain the
tripping of the thermal cut-out.Â* I cleaned everything and
re-assembled Henry.

There was a noticeable improvement in the suction and the motor
didn't trip
out...... until just now.

So, before I strip it down again, could the thermal cut-out be
faulty?Â* I'm
guessing it's unlikely as Henry runs for a short time before it cuts
out, then
it starts up again.Â* I'm guessing this is due to the thermal cut-out
cooling
slightly etc etc.

Does anyone have any advise on troubleshooting the actual cause or a
process
of elimination I should follow?

I know this post is over 10 years old, but I have faith in you lot

Thanks in advance,

I'd check its idle current and/or lube the bearings.
Used vacs also benefit from clearing the airpath out &
cleaning/replacing filters.


NT

http://www.wobblycogs.co.uk/electron...c-henry-motor/


Â*Â*Â* "Start by simply giving the motor a good visual inspection. If the
insulation
Â*Â*Â*Â* in the windings has failed youll likely see sooty burn marks
somewhere on
Â*Â*Â*Â* either the stator or the rotor. The most common location for a
failure is
Â*Â*Â*Â* just under the commutator (the divided copper area the brushes run
on)."

Using your Kill-O-Watt meter, the vacuum power consumption is
likely way out of line with reality.

Without any special prep, I just checked my vacuum cleaner.

Nameplate rating:Â*Â*Â*Â* 7.4 amps
Test (tube open):Â*Â*Â*Â* 6.2 amps (bag is full though)
Test (tube closed):Â*Â* 6.8 amps

I was expecting a lower reading, but I guess the full
bag is doing that to the power.

And the meter has trouble measuring the power,
because motors like that one run dirty. There would
be a lot of sparks coming off that commutator
and brush assembly.

But at least the power footprint, is less than the nameplate.

Â*Â* Paul


My Henry gives on a cheap no-name plug in power meter ......

Rating 1200W max, 1000W IEC

High setting
Tube open 1200W
Tube closed 850W

Low setting
Tube open 770W
Tubw closed 580W

Same results (giveor take 20W) when removing the flexi tube and just
open/closing Henry's nose opening


Fairly new HepaFlo bag fitted which is possibly only 5% full.

The power taken appears to go down when the tube is blocked.




--
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On 23/07/2020 16:16:28, alan_m wrote:
On 23/07/2020 14:10, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 July 2020 21:14:05 UTC+1, WingnutsÂ* wrote:
replying to The Medway Handyman, Wingnuts wrote:
Hi, I have a Henry NVR200 which is over heating.

I've stripped it down and cleaned it as best I can..Â* The brushed
have about
15mm left on them and the fans underneath the motor were pretty
clean but I
soaked them in warm soapy water nonetheless and then used a bottle
brush to
get in-between them.Â* I then attached a drill to the nut and
ensuring the
correct direction I spun it up to dry out any moisture that
remained, if any.

The lack of obvious fluff and dirt and that it was pretty clean in
the first
place bothered me; I was expecting something more significant to
explain the
tripping of the thermal cut-out.Â* I cleaned everything and
re-assembled Henry.

There was a noticeable improvement in the suction and the motor
didn't trip
out...... until just now.

So, before I strip it down again, could the thermal cut-out be
faulty?Â* I'm
guessing it's unlikely as Henry runs for a short time before it cuts
out, then
it starts up again.Â* I'm guessing this is due to the thermal cut-out
cooling
slightly etc etc.

Does anyone have any advise on troubleshooting the actual cause or a
process
of elimination I should follow?

I know this post is over 10 years old, but I have faith in you lot

Thanks in advance,

I'd check its idle current and/or lube the bearings.
Used vacs also benefit from clearing the airpath out &
cleaning/replacing filters.


NT

http://www.wobblycogs.co.uk/electron...c-henry-motor/


Â*Â*Â*Â* "Start by simply giving the motor a good visual inspection. If
the insulation
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* in the windings has failed youll likely see sooty burn marks
somewhere on
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* either the stator or the rotor. The most common location for a
failure is
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* just under the commutator (the divided copper area the brushes
run on)."

Using your Kill-O-Watt meter, the vacuum power consumption is
likely way out of line with reality.

Without any special prep, I just checked my vacuum cleaner.

Nameplate rating:Â*Â*Â*Â* 7.4 amps
Test (tube open):Â*Â*Â*Â* 6.2 amps (bag is full though)
Test (tube closed):Â*Â* 6.8 amps

I was expecting a lower reading, but I guess the full
bag is doing that to the power.

And the meter has trouble measuring the power,
because motors like that one run dirty. There would
be a lot of sparks coming off that commutator
and brush assembly.

But at least the power footprint, is less than the nameplate.

Â*Â*Â* Paul


My Henry gives on a cheap no-name plug in power meter ......

Rating 1200W max, 1000W IEC

High setting
Tube openÂ*Â*Â* 1200W
Tube closedÂ* 850W

Low setting
Tube openÂ*Â*Â* 770W
Tubw closedÂ* 580W

Same results (giveor take 20W) when removing the flexi tube and just
open/closing Henry's nose opening


Fairly new HepaFlo bag fitted which is possibly only 5% full.

The power taken appears to go down when the tube is blocked.

That is what I expect as the motor speeds up from the motor doing less work.

On 23/07/2020 16:16, alan_m wrote:

My Henry gives on a cheap no-name plug in power meter ......

Rating 1200W max, 1000W IEC

High setting
Tube openÂ*Â*Â* 1200W
Tube closedÂ* 850W

Low setting
Tube openÂ*Â*Â* 770W
Tubw closedÂ* 580W


Setting the meter to Amps
High setting
Tube open 5A
Tube closed 3.4A

Low setting
Tube open 4.4A
Tube closed 3.2A


--
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On Thursday, 23 July 2020 15:44:04 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to tabbypurr, Wingnuts wrote:
Thanks for your quick reply.

How do I check the idle current

an ammeter or power meter

and lube the bearings? If you don't mind
answering what I imagine is something I should know how to do.

I expect there are youtube vids showing how to do both.


I was unable to dismantle the motor any further than removing it from the
Henry itself. I was hoping to be able to remove the outer housing to expose
the fins in the hope that it was actually clogged up and therefore the cause
of the overheating. But as I dismantled it, and the lack of any real build up
of debris, I was, and still am, fearing that the motor is on it's way out.

I don't know why you keep saying that, it doesn't add up.

Lastly, I read somewhere, maybe here, that you can wash the filter and even
the hose on a low temp wash, is that something you are aware of or would or
wouldn't recommend doing?

I wash filters in the sink, takes no time. A soak first really helps. Hoses I wash in the shower. I daresay you could run a hose through a washing machine but it might come out very scuffed. A quick hand wash is far quicker.

NT

Ensuring that they are bone dry before reassembly.

Thanks once again for any help.

Wingnuts.

On 23/07/2020 18:58:29, wrote:
On Thursday, 23 July 2020 15:44:04 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to tabbypurr, Wingnuts wrote:
Thanks for your quick reply.

How do I check the idle current

an ammeter or power meter

and lube the bearings? If you don't mind
answering what I imagine is something I should know how to do.

I expect there are youtube vids showing how to do both.

Has it crossed your mind that the bearings will be sealed?

On 23/07/2020 18:58, wrote:

I wash filters in the sink, takes no time. A soak first really helps. Hoses I wash in the shower. I daresay you could run a hose through a washing machine but it might come out very scuffed. A quick hand wash is far quicker.

A hose in the washing machine is unlikely to wash anything out of the
inside of the hose. The Henry filter may be a bit big for sink.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Replacement.../dp/B002P90F5E

If you use a hepaflo disposable bag in a Henry you are unlikely to need
to clean the filter more than once in many years. I've only had to clean
mine once when I neglected to close the catch properly and the seal
between the top and bottom of the Henry didn't form an air tight
connection.

Use a garden hose for a Henry filter - just blast it in the opposite
direction to that the Henry sucks. Hang it out on the washing line to
let it dry.

Flexi hose use the same garden hose. Hold both end of the flexi hose at
the same level so the forms a U shape and use the hose to fill one side.
When full drop hold one end high and drop the other end to let the water
rush out. Repeat but this time drop the other side so the water flows in
the opposite direction. You may be surprised at the weight of water that
the flexi hose can hold. Again, drape it over a washing line to let it
drip dry.


--
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replying to alan_m, Wingnuts wrote:
Thank you for all of your replies.

I only have a multimeter and a basic one at that (TIS 258), I'll have a look
online to see if that is of any use, otherwise I'll go about getting power
socket meter as it'll be useful to have anyway.

I've taken the motor out, which is as far as I can go as I cannot see how to
proceed from here. Although I would like, even if just for completion sake,
peace of mind, and to learn something to be able to dismantle if further if
anyone can point me in the right direction?

I've attached a few photos hoping they will help.

Again, thanks for everyone's help thus far.

Wingnuts.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pj
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pk
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pl
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pm
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pn
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/po
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pp
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pq
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pr
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/ps

On Thursday, 23 July 2020 19:38:06 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 23/07/2020 18:58, tabbypurr wrote:

I wash filters in the sink, takes no time. A soak first really helps. Hoses I wash in the shower. I daresay you could run a hose through a washing machine but it might come out very scuffed. A quick hand wash is far quicker.

A hose in the washing machine is unlikely to wash anything out of the
inside of the hose.

Flexi hose use the same garden hose. Hold both end of the flexi hose at
the same level so the forms a U shape and use the hose to fill one side.
When full drop hold one end high and drop the other end to let the water
rush out. Repeat but this time drop the other side so the water flows in
the opposite direction. You may be surprised at the weight of water that
the flexi hose can hold. Again, drape it over a washing line to let it
drip dry.

A machine will do far more of that than you'll ever be willing to do by hand.


The Henry filter may be a bit big for sink.

now there's a non-challenge

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Replacement.../dp/B002P90F5E

If you use a hepaflo disposable bag in a Henry you are unlikely to need
to clean the filter more than once in many years. I've only had to clean
mine once when I neglected to close the catch properly and the seal
between the top and bottom of the Henry didn't form an air tight
connection.

IME a high percentage of used machines need their filters washing or replacing


NT

Use a garden hose for a Henry filter - just blast it in the opposite
direction to that the Henry sucks. Hang it out on the washing line to
let it dry.

On Friday, 24 July 2020 02:44:03 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to alan_m, Wingnuts wrote:
Thank you for all of your replies.

I only have a multimeter and a basic one at that (TIS 258), I'll have a look
online to see if that is of any use, otherwise I'll go about getting power
socket meter as it'll be useful to have anyway.

It's got a 10A scale, but only dc. A bridge rectifier would enable it to measure Henry's current draw. Realise that it'll only handle 10A for a few seconds.


I've taken the motor out, which is as far as I can go as I cannot see how to
proceed from here. Although I would like, even if just for completion sake,
peace of mind, and to learn something to be able to dismantle if further if
anyone can point me in the right direction?

We have. Where's the sticking point?


NT

I've attached a few photos hoping they will help.

Again, thanks for everyone's help thus far.

Wingnuts.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pj
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pk
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pl
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pm
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pn
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/po
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pp
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pq
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/pr
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/ps

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:22:12 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Friday, 24 July 2020 02:44:03 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to alan_m, Wingnuts wrote:
Thank you for all of your replies.

I only have a multimeter and a basic one at that (TIS 258), I'll have a
look online to see if that is of any use, otherwise I'll go about
getting power socket meter as it'll be useful to have anyway.

It's got a 10A scale, but only dc. A bridge rectifier would enable it to
measure Henry's current draw. Realise that it'll only handle 10A for a
few seconds.

Don't see any such limitation on mine.


--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 25/07/2020 09:48, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:22:12 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Friday, 24 July 2020 02:44:03 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to alan_m, Wingnuts wrote:
Thank you for all of your replies.

I only have a multimeter and a basic one at that (TIS 258), I'll have a
look online to see if that is of any use, otherwise I'll go about
getting power socket meter as it'll be useful to have anyway.

It's got a 10A scale, but only dc. A bridge rectifier would enable it to
measure Henry's current draw. Realise that it'll only handle 10A for a
few seconds.

Don't see any such limitation on mine.


photos of the TIS 258* show it having the same warning as on an
apparently identical (but differently badged) cheap mm I have - ie the
10A inputs labelled "max 30 secs every 15 min"


*eg
https://www.testinstrumentsolutions....258700x700.jpg


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Saturday, 25 July 2020 13:37:53 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/07/2020 09:48, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:22:12 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 24 July 2020 02:44:03 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to alan_m, Wingnuts wrote:

Thank you for all of your replies.

I only have a multimeter and a basic one at that (TIS 258), I'll have a
look online to see if that is of any use, otherwise I'll go about
getting power socket meter as it'll be useful to have anyway.

It's got a 10A scale, but only dc. A bridge rectifier would enable it to
measure Henry's current draw. Realise that it'll only handle 10A for a
few seconds.

Don't see any such limitation on mine.


photos of the TIS 258* show it having the same warning as on an
apparently identical (but differently badged) cheap mm I have - ie the
10A inputs labelled "max 30 secs every 15 min"


*eg
https://www.testinstrumentsolutions....258700x700.jpg

Multimeter high current scales are normally that way. How long it can cope for depends on meter quality, or is one of the qualities of a meter. 30s isn't bad.


NT

On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:00:47 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 25 July 2020 13:37:53 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/07/2020 09:48, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:22:12 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 24 July 2020 02:44:03 UTC+1, Wingnuts wrote:
replying to alan_m, Wingnuts wrote:

Thank you for all of your replies.

I only have a multimeter and a basic one at that (TIS 258), I'll
have a look online to see if that is of any use, otherwise I'll go
about getting power socket meter as it'll be useful to have anyway.

It's got a 10A scale, but only dc. A bridge rectifier would enable
it to measure Henry's current draw. Realise that it'll only handle
10A for a few seconds.

Don't see any such limitation on mine.


photos of the TIS 258* show it having the same warning as on an
apparently identical (but differently badged) cheap mm I have - ie the
10A inputs labelled "max 30 secs every 15 min"


*eg https://www.testinstrumentsolutions....258700x700.jpg

Multimeter high current scales are normally that way. How long it can
cope for depends on meter quality, or is one of the qualities of a
meter. 30s isn't bad.

Nothing in my AVO 8 manual!



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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 25/07/2020 17:50, Bob Eager wrote:


Nothing in my AVO 8 manual!


The shunt alone in an Avo 8 is larger than many DMMs



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