Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate
property on. So I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want
the land, and how much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd
like the cash realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of
coming up with a figure for something like this? My parents (and I)
literally don't know whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort
of expected value. Is it something an impartial professional can advise
on? Or is it simply a case of my parents coming up with a figure they
could live with, and the neighbour liking it or lumping it?

Thanks
David

Lobster wrote:

Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.
.....
Or is it simply a case of my parents coming up with a figure they
could live with, and the neighbour liking it or lumping it?

£10,000 would be a starting point I think.(plus their costs).

I had similar 10 or so years ago, bloke at the back of me has no garden
to speak of, offered to buy some of my large garden, an approx 6m x 10m
pocket - this would more than double the size of his garden. I said
£3000 plus costs.
He laughed, and said the whole length, not just a corner - approx 35m x
10 m, for £1000 inc. costs.
I laughed back at him.

Last year he came round, offered again to buy the land, as he couldnt
sell his house as the garden was too small. I said £20,000 - the value
the extra land would add to his house value according to a Surveyor
friend.
He thought I was joking, and offered £3000 inc.costs.
I politely refused.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Lobster wrote:
Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate
property on. So I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want
the land, and how much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd
like the cash realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of
coming up with a figure for something like this? My parents (and I)
literally don't know whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort
of expected value. Is it something an impartial professional can advise
on? Or is it simply a case of my parents coming up with a figure they
could live with, and the neighbour liking it or lumping it?

Thanks
David
The value is what they can get for it !

So how much does gaining rear access increase the value of the
neighbours property -
- does it allow the neighbours site to be developed further ?
- does it allow off-street parking ?
- are your parents likely to move in the next few years ?

Keep in mind :

- is anyone else in a position to sell him land which would give him
access ?
- would development affect your parent's properties value or their
enjoyment of its amenities ?


Then decide how much of that increase in value you think they could ask for.

Maybe up to 50% ....

A professional valuer would advise - probably for a fee ! You might want
to get some feel for how serious the neighbour is and how much money
they are thinking of before paying for advice.
You may not want to pay for advice if the neighbour is only willing to
pay a couple of hundred and the value added is likely to be several
thousand.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land?

Contact the local council and ask how much they would charge. We've got a
three foot strip running across the back of our garden to prevent
developers knocking a very nice plot with 3 houses and a small block of
flats with lock-ups into a housing estate.

If it were me, I'd ask for the value of the proposed buyers house, and get
a covenant put on it such that it must be fenced/maintained, and only used
for foot traffic by the owners of the now buyers property.

But then I'm like that

Al.

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:40:55 +0100, Lobster wrote:

Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour who
wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably with a
view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit of
land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no particular use
to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate property on. So
I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want the land, and how
much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd like the cash
realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of coming up with a
figure for something like this? My parents (and I) literally don't know
whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort of expected value. Is
it something an impartial professional can advise on? Or is it simply a
case of my parents coming up with a figure they could live with, and the
neighbour liking it or lumping it?

Thanks
David

==========================================

I've no idea of how to set a price but if you do go ahead with a sale
consider applying a restrictive covenant to ensure that the land can never
be used to create a nuisance such as a pig sty, dog run or even a scrap
yard. A solicitor will advise, at a price.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

Lobster wrote:

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land?
1/5 to 1/3 of the change in value of the land it allows access to but they
should consult a land agent because there are many caveats.

AJH

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:40:55 +0100, Lobster wrote:
Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate
property on. So I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want
the land, and how much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd
like the cash realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of
coming up with a figure for something like this? My parents (and I)
literally don't know whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort
of expected value. Is it something an impartial professional can advise
on? Or is it simply a case of my parents coming up with a figure they
could live with, and the neighbour liking it or lumping it?

Thanks
David

Someone near me tried to do this a while back. It transpired that they
wanted to use this as a driveway, so they could build another house
on land taken from their back garden. Without this strip, their plan
was a non-starter, as there was no other way to get access - either for
the owners of the new house, nor as site access for the builders.
If your parents situation is similar, they may wish to consider both
points: what the value is to their neighbour, and how much aggravation
they may be caused by any subsequent building work.

Oh yes, and what the increased housing density would do to the value of
their place. If this is the situation, then when these extra factors
are taken into account, the value could be very high, indeed.

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate
property on. So I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want
the land, and how much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd
like the cash realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of
coming up with a figure for something like this? My parents (and I)
literally don't know whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort
of expected value. Is it something an impartial professional can advise
on? Or is it simply a case of my parents coming up with a figure they
could live with, and the neighbour liking it or lumping it?

If it's the south east of England work out the land value at approx 1/2 of
the price the property might fetch and then do it as a proportion of the
plot size.

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In uk.d-i-y, Lobster wrote:
My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land?

I'd start by asking the neighbour to make an offer. Your parents
shouldn't feel the least bit uncomfortable about asking roughly how much
the neighbour has in mind, and should immediately reject any pressure to
open the bidding themselves. They might be very pleasantly surprised or
totally disillusioned by the opening offer, which would make the process
easier one way or the other.

Although you asked only about price, make sure you check out that
"presumably", and think of the worst that could happen.

--
Mike Barnes

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour who
wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably with a
view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit of
land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no particular use
to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate property on. So
I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want the land, and how
much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd like the cash
realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of coming up with a
figure for something like this? My parents (and I) literally don't know
whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort of expected value. Is
it something an impartial professional can advise on? Or is it simply a
case of my parents coming up with a figure they could live with, and the
neighbour liking it or lumping it?

Thanks
David

What is the value of the house inc land? As the land is approx 2/3 of the
value of the house take this figure. Then measure the square footage of the
land. What ever the footage is of the strip to sold that is the price you
charge.

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour who
wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably with a
view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit of
land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no particular use
to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate property on. So
I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want the land, and how
much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd like the cash
realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of coming up with a
figure for something like this? My parents (and I) literally don't know
whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort of expected value. Is
it something an impartial professional can advise on? Or is it simply a
case of my parents coming up with a figure they could live with, and the
neighbour liking it or lumping it?

Might be worth punting this at uk.legal.moderated as well.

Has anyone suggested "Leasing" the land instead and having an income from it
with the right to reverse the situation should your parents wish to sell ?

A covenant might be useful as a cover for unwanted additions to the
neighbours property such as a granny annex, garage, animal shelter etc etc
which might produce some problems of the "View", smells, noise etc.

A.Lee wrote:
Last year he came round, offered again to buy the land, as he couldnt
sell his house as the garden was too small. I said £20,000 - the value
the extra land would add to his house value according to a Surveyor
friend. He thought I was joking, and offered £3000 inc.costs.
I politely refused.

From experience, you could try for a deal on the basis of splitting that
anticipated 20k profit between both parties. Your parents can't expect
to get the whole 20k and leave him nothing; but neither can he expect to
walk away with the profits of a 17k/3k split... so somewhere in between
there's a deal to be made.

Your parents are in a strong position: does he want to sell that house
and get on with his life, or not?


--
Ian White

Has anyone suggested "Leasing" the land instead and having an income from it
with the right to reverse the situation should your parents wish to sell ?

Good idea - ISTR a right of way might be granted if the neighbour was
given a full 12 months unrestricted access, so a lease offering 364
days was the way to go, and the access being "closed" to them for the
next day.

Colin Wilson wrote:
Has anyone suggested "Leasing" the land instead and having an income from it
with the right to reverse the situation should your parents wish to sell ?

Good idea - ISTR a right of way might be granted if the neighbour was
given a full 12 months unrestricted access, so a lease offering 364
days was the way to go, and the access being "closed" to them for the
next day.
As regards the value the potential buyers should get an independent
valuer then they can make an offer. Or they can just make an offer which
your parents can accept of decide it is not worth the hassle, plus of
course the buyer will pay all costs involved.

--
Please reply to group,emails to designated
address are never read.

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:55:18 +0100, Ian White wrote:
A.Lee wrote:
Last year he came round, offered again to buy the land, as he couldnt
sell his house as the garden was too small. I said £20,000 - the value
the extra land would add to his house value according to a Surveyor
friend. He thought I was joking, and offered £3000 inc.costs.
I politely refused.

From experience, you could try for a deal on the basis of splitting that
anticipated 20k profit between both parties. Your parents can't expect
to get the whole 20k and leave him nothing;

But he doesn't get nothing - he gets to sell his house. So aside from the
costs of buying this parcel of land, everyone wins. The house seller achieves
his/her goal, the land-seller makes a tidy sum and the new-house buyer ends
up with a usable garden.

but neither can he expect to
walk away with the profits of a 17k/3k split... so somewhere in between
there's a deal to be made.

Your parents are in a strong position: does he want to sell that house
and get on with his life, or not?

Round where I live the price of the land is buy far the largest component
of a house price (YMMV). Much more than the cost of building the house, even
though the plots are very small - tiny, in fact. I'd also venture that the sellers
house *isn't* unsaleable with the existing small garden (as he/she bought it
in the first place). It just doesn't command the price they want for it. I'd
guess that if they dropped the price by, ooh, 20K they'd get a buyer.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden,
presumably with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a
separate property on. So I really it's a case of how badly does this
guy want the land, and how much my parents would miss it versus how
much they'd like the cash realised... but where on earth do you start
in terms of coming up with a figure for something like this? My
parents (and I) literally don't know whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP
would be the sort of expected value. Is it something an impartial
professional can advise on? Or is it simply a case of my parents
coming up with a figure they could live with, and the neighbour liking
it or lumping it?

Thanks
David

What is the value of the house inc land? As the land is approx 2/3 of
the value of the house take this figure. Then measure the square
footage of the land. What ever the footage is of the strip to sold that
is the price you charge.



I think it needs to be thought about the other way round - increase in
value to the buyer's home. Especially if access is improved, off road
parking and so on.

Rob

On Jul 14, 7:40*pm, Lobster wrote:
Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. *One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land?


When I was in a similar position (wanting to buy access from a
neighbour in order to build a separate house on the bottom of my
garden). I was told that I should expect to pay 10-30% of the
increase in value of my land that resulted.


In the end it turned out to be not worth doing so I didn't take it
further.

Robert

Doctor Drivel wrote:

What is the value of the house inc land? As the land is approx 2/3 of
the value of the house take this figure. Then measure the square
footage of the land. What ever the footage is of the strip to sold that
is the price you charge.


As usual Dribble is totally divorced from reality. The size of a garden
makes some difference to the value of a property but not a great deal
unless there is real potential for another building plot.

I had reason to look into the value of a ransom strip some 20 years ago
and the advice then was the owner could hold out for as much as half the
expected profit from the landlocked land.

I would suggest to David that the starting point (or even the sticking
point) for any negotiations would be half the increased value that the
neighbour can expect plus half the decrease in value that the loss of
part of the garden entails. And if the increase in one is anywhere near
the decrease in the other not to enter into any deal.

The Dribble logic above would imply that the seller was not actually
making a profit on the transaction while the reality of such a
transaction would be a very considerable profit unless the seller was
depriving himself of a complete building plot by disposing of a fraction
of it, in which case the seller would be onto a certain loser and a very
considerable loss in the long term.

On 14 July, 19:40, Lobster wrote:
Bit OT but I'm sure within this group's expertise...

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. *One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate
property on. *So I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want
the land, and how much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd
like the cash realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of
coming up with a figure for something like this? *My parents (and I)
literally don't know whether 100, 1000, or 100,000 GBP would be the sort
of expected value. *Is it something an impartial professional can advise
on? *Or is it simply a case of my parents coming up with a figure they
could live with, and the neighbour liking it or lumping it?

Thanks
David

Bearing in mind the `value` may be more than money, you have to
enforce any restrictive covenant you may try to introduce to the deal,
building work and subsequent higher density housing may have a
negative affect on property`s current value.

Reading Festival was for many years organised by a couple who rebuffed
the advances of Mr Vince Power`s Mean Fiddler organisation, Mean
Fiddler run many festivals now, including a large stake in
Glastonbury.
One year the couple announced they would again be running Reading
Festival, Mr Power also announced that he would be running that years
Reading Festival.
The couple argued that they had organised infrastructure, advertising
and booked the bands.
Mr Vince Power announced that he had taken on an exclusive lease to
the farmland that allowed access to the site.
Mean Fiddler still runs the Reading Festival.

The monetary value of the land may be entirely unrelated to its size.

Adam

"Roger Chapman" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

What is the value of the house inc land? As the land is approx 2/3 of
the value of the house take this figure. Then measure the square footage
of the land. What ever the footage is of the strip to sold that is the
price you charge.


As usual

Roger, you must stop making things up. Sad but true.

"Roger Chapman" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

What is the value of the house inc land? As the land is approx 2/3 of
the value of the house take this figure. Then measure the square footage
of the land. What ever the footage is of the strip to sold that is the
price you charge.


As usual Dribble is totally divorced from reality. The size of a garden
makes some difference to the value of a property but not a great deal
unless there is real potential for another building plot.


True
I had reason to look into the value of a ransom strip some 20 years ago
and the advice then was the owner could hold out for as much as half the
expected profit from the landlocked land.

Eh? The owner could hold out for twice the expected profit if they wanted -
they wouldn't get it but there isn't a limit!

It's his land to sell or not for whatever price he wants.

Everyone seems to be under the misapprehension that land (and houses) have
an intrinsic value. As things stand, in this country, it is as close to a
free market as you can get (although not perfect as Dr D will point out).
The value of land is entirely extrinsic and is "whatever someone is willing
to pay"!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix wrote:

snip

I had reason to look into the value of a ransom strip some 20 years ago
and the advice then was the owner could hold out for as much as half the
expected profit from the landlocked land.

Eh? The owner could hold out for twice the expected profit if they wanted -
they wouldn't get it but there isn't a limit!

You know what I meant. :-)

It's his land to sell or not for whatever price he wants.

Everyone seems to be under the misapprehension that land (and houses) have
an intrinsic value. As things stand, in this country, it is as close to a
free market as you can get (although not perfect as Dr D will point out).
The value of land is entirely extrinsic and is "whatever someone is willing
to pay"!

Taking your argument to its logical extreme only money has an intrinsic
value. Everything else is worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it.

With run-of-the-mill houses as with second hand cars there is a general
consensus as to their approximate worth. With vanity items such as Old
Master paintings the value is largely determined by the amount of
surplus cash available for disposal and the reputation of the object on
offer.

In between there may be some items that are a 'must have' to an
individual who will pay through the nose to purchase but are of little
or no interest to the rest of use but as I see it the case in question
revolves around the interests of just 2 parties, the owners of the
properties involved. Neither actually needs the deal but in this case
the seller is the one with the whip hand which is why the deal has more
chance of being concluded if the buyer accepts that the seller deserves
a fair share of the potential profit.

On Jul 15, 11:20*am, AA wrote:


The monetary value of the land may be entirely unrelated to its size.


Absolutely. in fact the usual situation with a ransom strip is that
is has almost no size but blocks all access to the plot. .

Robert

"Roger Chapman" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:

snip

I had reason to look into the value of a ransom strip some 20 years ago
and the advice then was the owner could hold out for as much as half the
expected profit from the landlocked land.

Eh? The owner could hold out for twice the expected profit if they
wanted - they wouldn't get it but there isn't a limit!

You know what I meant. :-)

It's his land to sell or not for whatever price he wants.

Everyone seems to be under the misapprehension that land (and houses)
have an intrinsic value. As things stand, in this country, it is as close
to a free market as you can get (although not perfect as Dr D will point
out). The value of land is entirely extrinsic and is "whatever someone is
willing to pay"!

Taking your argument to its logical extreme only money has an intrinsic
value. Everything else is worth what someone else is prepared to pay for
it.

Well, money and things where the market is controlled (if one avoids going
too far down the philosophical route!).

In Soviet Russia for example, many things had a known "value" as their price
was controlled (a control economy rather than a free/mixed economy). In
Britain most of the economy is free-ish so yes, only money has an intrinsic
"value" (while the economy is within certain stability limits).

I put "value" in inverted commas because I deplore a society where everyone
knows "the price of everything and the value of nothing". In this discussion
we really mean "price" when we say "value".


With run-of-the-mill houses as with second hand cars there is a general
consensus as to their approximate worth.

No, it entirely depends on where in the country you are, as people are
prepared to pay more or less in different areas so price/value is "whatever
someone will pay"!

With vanity items such as Old Master paintings the value is largely
determined by the amount of surplus cash available for disposal and the
reputation of the object on offer.

is "whatever someone will pay"
In between there may be some items that are a 'must have' to an individual
who will pay through the nose to purchase but are of little or no interest
to the rest of use but as I see it the case in question revolves around
the interests of just 2 parties, the owners of the properties involved.
Neither actually needs the deal but in this case the seller is the one
with the whip hand which is why the deal has more chance of being
concluded if the buyer accepts that the seller deserves a fair share of
the potential profit.

No argument with that


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Lobster wrote:

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

Thanks a lot for all the really helpful info!

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate
property on.

Update on the above... it turns out that the area of land at issue is
somewhat larger than I'd thought. My parents have had a tame builder
take a look at it, and he says that it's definitely potential large
enough to be a building plot, and in a better economic climate could be
worth a pretty eye-watering sum if planning permission was forthcoming.
My parents certainly wouldn't want to build on it as long as they are
living in their current home, but it certainly means that the neighbour
is going to be told 'thanks but no thanks'!

David

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

Everyone seems to be under the misapprehension that land (and houses) have
an intrinsic value. As things stand, in this country, it is as close to a
free market as you can get (although not perfect as Dr D will point out).

It will and you are in cloud-cuckoo land the housing market is rigged. Read
Who Own Britain by Kevin Cahill. he goes into it.

The value of land is entirely extrinsic and is "whatever someone is
willing to pay"!

But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage of
building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that is parks
and gardens FACT!!!! I have given facts in a previous post. What didn't you
understand? Most homes in the UK are built by about 20 companies. In no
other western country is there such a monopoly. I am not giving a
half-baked opinion. I am telling you how it is. Stop telling yourself lies.
You have nothing to gain by doing so.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage of
building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that is
parks and gardens FACT!!!!

Well let's just fill up all the gardens and parks with houses. Wouldn't
matter to you in the little council flat you have in that tower block.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

Everyone seems to be under the misapprehension that land (and houses)
have an intrinsic value. As things stand, in this country, it is as close
to a free market as you can get (although not perfect as Dr D will point
out).

It will and you are in cloud-cuckoo land the housing market is rigged.
Read Who Own Britain by Kevin Cahill. he goes into it.

The value of land is entirely extrinsic and is "whatever someone is
willing to pay"!

But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage of
building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that is
parks and gardens FACT!!!! I have given facts in a previous post. What
didn't you understand? Most homes in the UK are built by about 20
companies. In no other western country is there such a monopoly. I am
not giving a half-baked opinion. I am telling you how it is. Stop telling
yourself lies. You have nothing to gain by doing so.

I never argued with any of your figures, just said that the "value" of a
house was "whatever anyone was willing to pay for it".


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage of
building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that is
parks and gardens FACT!!!!

Well

Eff off as you are plantpot.

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:08:17 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage of
building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that is
parks and gardens FACT!!!!

Well let's just fill up all the gardens and parks with houses. Wouldn't
matter to you in the little council flat you have in that tower block.

That's already happening. It's often known as "garden grabbing".

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:27:25 +0100, Roger Chapman
wrote:

Bob Mannix wrote:

snip

I had reason to look into the value of a ransom strip some 20 years ago
and the advice then was the owner could hold out for as much as half the
expected profit from the landlocked land.

Eh? The owner could hold out for twice the expected profit if they wanted -
they wouldn't get it but there isn't a limit!

You know what I meant. :-)

It's his land to sell or not for whatever price he wants.

Everyone seems to be under the misapprehension that land (and houses) have
an intrinsic value. As things stand, in this country, it is as close to a
free market as you can get (although not perfect as Dr D will point out).
The value of land is entirely extrinsic and is "whatever someone is willing
to pay"!

Taking your argument to its logical extreme only money has an intrinsic
value. Everything else is worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it.

Money has no intrinsic value. It only works because people believe in
it (or not as the case in Zimbabwe).

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:59:05 +0100, Lobster
wrote:

Lobster wrote:

My parents have recently been approached by their next-door neighbour
who wishes to buy a strip off the end of my parent's garden, presumably
with a view to gaining rear access to their property.

Thanks a lot for all the really helpful info!

My parents just *might* be interested in doing this. One of several
questions raised, though, is how would you put a valuation on this bit
of land? From memory, my guess is that the land would be of no
particular use to anybody else; ie not large enough to build a separate
property on.

Update on the above... it turns out that the area of land at issue is
somewhat larger than I'd thought. My parents have had a tame builder
take a look at it, and he says that it's definitely potential large
enough to be a building plot, and in a better economic climate could be
worth a pretty eye-watering sum if planning permission was forthcoming.
My parents certainly wouldn't want to build on it as long as they are
living in their current home, but it certainly means that the neighbour
is going to be told 'thanks but no thanks'!

Good!

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage
of building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that
is parks and gardens FACT!!!!

Well let's just fill up all the gardens and parks with houses.
Wouldn't matter to you in the little council flat you have in that
tower block.


Eff off as you are plantpot.

Seems you're the one with plantpots on your little balcony if you don't
realise the importance of parks and gardens, etc. But them I'd guess you
never go out given how much you quote from the internet.

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

Everyone seems to be under the misapprehension that land (and houses)
have an intrinsic value. As things stand, in this country, it is as
close to a free market as you can get (although not perfect as Dr D will
point out).

It will and you are in cloud-cuckoo land the housing market is rigged.
Read Who Own Britain by Kevin Cahill. he goes into it.

The value of land is entirely extrinsic and is "whatever someone is
willing to pay"!

But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage of
building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that is
parks and gardens FACT!!!! I have given facts in a previous post. What
didn't you understand? Most homes in the UK are built by about 20
companies. In no other western country is there such a monopoly. I am
not giving a half-baked opinion. I am telling you how it is. Stop
telling yourself lies. You have nothing to gain by doing so.

I never argued with any of your figures, just said that the "value" of a
house was "whatever anyone was willing to pay for it".

You wrote: "As things stand, in this country, it is as close to a free
market as you can get" I pointed out this country is not a free market in
land and homes at all, which it clearly is not and I gave some basic facts.
The planning system is Stalinist based on centralised quotas. Only a few
companies build, and have built in the past 60 years, the vast majority of
the ticky-tacky homes in the UK. Most have cardboard walls - literally -
and that is what Paramount boards are, cardboard egg-shell with plaster on
the outside. The so-called free market is so wonderful the UK has the
oldest energy inefficient homes in the EU.

Extracts from Unaffordable Housing Fables and Myths by the Policy Exchange:

"Britain has amongst the oldest and pokiest houses in Europe - not the fault
of architects but the result of the remorseless and misguided logic of
planning policy."

"Our housing compares poorly by international standards too. Britain has
some of the smallest and oldest housing in Europe, and what is being built
now is even smaller than the existing stock. Yet despite this, house prices
in the UK have risen much more strongly than other developed countries,
meaning that despite real growth in our incomes we are not able to afford
more and better housing, in the way that we can afford better cars and food
as we get wealthier."

"The conclusion that we can draw from these statistical comparisons is that
British housing tends to be older than elsewhere in Western Europe. Because
they are older their efficiency, in terms of heating for example, tends to
be less. The houses tend to be smaller, with more, but smaller, rooms. New
houses tend to be even smaller on average than existing houses. In addition,
house prices rise faster in the UK so that, year on year, housing in Britain
has been getting more expensive relative to that in the rest of Western
Europe.
It used to be a widely-held British view that 'our' housing was better than
that in continental Europe, that no Frenchman would invite you back to his
house because it was so small and poky - 'that was why they all eat out in
restaurants'.Whatever may have been the truth of this folk myth fifty or
sixty years ago, the statistical evidence shows that it has no factual basis
now. If fifty years of planning has achieved one thing, it has demolished
that myth; it is now Britain that has the oldest, pokiest, housing in
Europe."

"Compared with other countries, the standard of living in terms of housing
has fallen over the years, both relatively and sometimes absolutely "

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:52:12 +0100 Doctor Drivel wrote :
"Our housing compares poorly by international standards too. Britain has
some of the smallest and oldest housing in Europe, and what is being
built now is even smaller than the existing stock."

Well Boris is persuaded ...

"Boris Johnson calls for London homes to be 10 per cent larger

The housing industry and architects have welcomed the London Housing
Design Guide, published last week by London mayor Boris Johnson’s office,
despite some feeling that new proposals on space standards do not go far
enough.

The guidelines, unveiled on 8 July, mean that all publicly funded homes
built in the capital from 2011 will be 10 per cent larger than the famed
1961 Parker Morris standard. ..."

http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/5205192.article

For myself I certainly wouldn't rush to give up my 26th floor flat here in
Melbourne, but then I have got 96m2 to myself - probably what Barratt
would make a 4-bed house of. And, Dave, a park across the road.

Balcony view:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/...886a1600_o.jpg

Tower blocks work brilliantly with security, good maintenance and the
right occupancy, all of which the UK got so wrong in the 1960s.

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:
Tower blocks work brilliantly with security, good maintenance and the
right occupancy, all of which the UK got so wrong in the 1960s.

Think right occupancy is the key. But with social housing you may not have
that choice.

But I'd guess - given the chance - most parents with young children would
prefer to have a garden for them to play in.

For adults it comes down to their choice.

--
*No radio - Already stolen.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Lobster
saying something like:

So I really it's a case of how badly does this guy want
the land, and how much my parents would miss it versus how much they'd
like the cash realised... but where on earth do you start in terms of
coming up with a figure for something like this?

About fifteen years ago a friend bought a strip of field adjoining her
cottage so she could make a driveway into her back garden and put up a
garage. The strip was approx 3m x 20m and cost her 10K; I expect it
would be double that now. They're not called Ransom Strips for nothing.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
But when an artificial shortage is created then there is a shortage
of building land AGAIN, only 7.5% of the UK is settled and 5% of that
is parks and gardens FACT!!!!

Well let's just fill up all the gardens and parks with houses.
Wouldn't matter to you in the little council flat you have in that
tower block.


Eff off as you are plantpot.

Seems

Eff off as you are plantpot.

"Mark" wrote in message
news
That's already happening. It's often known as "garden grabbing".

Because they will not allow people to build on land.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:52:12 +0100 Doctor Drivel wrote :
"Our housing compares poorly by international standards too. Britain has
some of the smallest and oldest housing in Europe, and what is being
built now is even smaller than the existing stock."

Well Boris is persuaded ...

"Boris Johnson calls for London homes to be 10 per cent larger

Well that is going to make a huge difference isn't it? Boris the Turk is an
idiot. Home elsewhere are 50 to 100% larger.

For myself I certainly wouldn't rush to give up my 26th floor flat here in
Melbourne, but then I have got 96m2 to myself - probably what Barratt
would make a 4-bed house of. And, Dave, a park across the road.

Yep, you got it!