Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on Makita
batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful, but
is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I guess the
same charger would work?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on
Makita batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful,
but is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I
guess the same charger would work?

If it's an intelligent fast charger made only for Ni-Cads, no, in theory.
And I'd guess any Makita one would be.

--
*Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.) *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on Makita
batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful, but
is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I guess the
same charger would work?


My charger has 2 settings, NiMH and NiCD, so I guess there is a
difference. I have been having problem with batteries running out when
using my Garmin GPS 60CSX on longish walks, tried rechargeable and
standard. How ever I have been recommended ReCyko as not bleeding their
charge and having that bit of extra. Got them but not used them yet.

--
Please reply to group,emails to designated
address are never read.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on
Makita batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful,
but is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I
guess the same charger would work?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Although the theoretical charging regime is not quite the same as for NiCds,
for all practical purposes, the same charger can be used without noticable
detriment to the performance or life. The biggest advantage of NiMH types,
apart from the obvious size / capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory
effect, which is something that has always plagued NiCds. Bear in mind that
with a current-limited charger, which the Makita should be, twice the
capacity will take twice the time to fully charge. This is of course
mitigated by the fact that the battery to be charged doesn't need to be
almost flat any more, because of the lack of memory effect.

Arfa

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never* experienced
this.

--
*Rehab is for quitters.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never* experienced
this.


Prolly your one of the few who use them properly!..
--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:13:20 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Although the theoretical charging regime is not quite the same as for NiCds,
for all practical purposes, the same charger can be used without noticable
detriment to the performance or life.

The problem, as far as charging is concerned, is that the small
voltage depression at full charge that fast chargers rely upon for
detection of charge completion is smaller (about 30% of the NiCd
change) in NiMH than in NiCd. This means that NiCd chargers usually
miss it when charging NiMH and continue to charge until they time out
or they stop on thermal limiting. This damages the NiMH battery
irreversibly each time it is charged.

Using a fast charger meant for NiCd on NiMH will often damage the
battery being charged.

Slow (12 hours or more) chargers are not affected and will work on
either type of battery

The biggest advantage of NiMH types,
apart from the obvious size / capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory
effect, which is something that has always plagued NiCds.

Unless you are in space with a specific type of cell not found in
consumer applications and a rather unusual charge/discharge regime
memory effect does not exist in either NiCd or NiMH cells.

What does exist, and is mistakenly called memory effect, is voltage
depression caused by long term overcharging. This is somewhat more
severe in NiCd batteries than in NiMH but easily preventable.

This is of course
mitigated by the fact that the battery to be charged doesn't need to be
almost flat any more, because of the lack of memory effect.

There is no need to fully discharge either NiCd or NiMH before
recharge. Doing so has no beneficial effect upon battery capacity or
life.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on Makita
batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

Not bad certainly (assuming they are real and not knock offs)....

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful, but
is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I guess the
same charger would work?

With decent NiMH cells there ought to be little practical usage
difference - same rules apply - don't charge a hot pack etc.

Most modern Makita chargers[1] are designed to handle both, although
some of the very old ones will not charge NiMH packs (they won't damage
them - they just wont even try). (Makita tend to have additional
contacts on their NiMH packs for things like temperature sensing etc -
which the old charger won't have matching contacts for). The chargers
will also usually handle any pack voltage from 7.2V up to their maximum.
So my mates 14.4V packs charge fine in my 18V charger, but not the other
way round.


[1] Excluding LiIon ones which only do LiIon

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never*
experienced this.


Prolly your one of the few who use them properly!..

Even in the early days it was well known that overcharging would damage
them. Rather like it does an SLA battery. In most of my sort of use you'd
know how long they would last and change them (just) before they were
exhausted. Same as you'd do with dry cells if you wanted the best
economy/performance compromise. So they would just be recharged overnight
at 1/10th the capacity constant current - with a timer to switch the
charger off after 14 hours. Good cells would last years when used like
this. Of course they weren't being used in heavy discharge situations.
What I'm not sure of is how well these modern high capacity types last.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Arfa Daily wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on
Makita batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful,
but is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I
guess the same charger would work?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Although the theoretical charging regime is not quite the same as for NiCds,
for all practical purposes, the same charger can be used without noticable
detriment to the performance or life.

Not so. the delta peak is far less that NiCD. and if your charger doesnt
detect it it will overheat them and bugger them.
You can use s Nimh charger for NiCd, but the reverse may not be true.


The biggest advantage of NiMH types,
apart from the obvious size / capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory
effect, which is something that has always plagued NiCds.

Urban myth. The biggest DISADVANTGE of NiMh is that they self discharge,
and have limited life as a result. They go flat and lose capacity.

Bear in mind that
with a current-limited charger, which the Makita should be, twice the
capacity will take twice the time to fully charge. This is of course
mitigated by the fact that the battery to be charged doesn't need to be
almost flat any more, because of the lack of memory effect.

Arfa

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never* experienced
this.

Nor has anyone else.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never*
experienced this.

Nor has anyone else.

I think NASSA did on their deep space projects. If I remember correctly the
spacecraft need to rotate slowly to avoid frying in direct sunlight on one
side, this leads to identical charge and discharge cycles as the photocells
go through sunlight and dark cycles and caused the Ni-Cads to show the
memory effect. Apparently this only happens when the cells are discharged
to exactly the same state every time so not likely to be a problem in real
world use.

--
Mike Clarke

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:57:27 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never* experienced
this.

Well you've probably been using them on Earth, rather than in orbit in
satellites subject to exactly the same period of charge and discharge
cycles.

Silly you!

--
John Stumbles

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never* experienced
this.

Mmm, indeed. Using a decent charger seems to be the key.
--
Clint Sharp

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:57:27 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
The biggest advantage of NiMH types, apart from the obvious size /
capacity one, is that they don't suffer memory effect, which is
something that has always plagued NiCds.

Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never* experienced
this.

Same here. Even 20+ years ago, mine was the only bleeper at work that would
run for a week. Standard instruction from on 'igh was to take the bleepers
back to the gatehouse every night. I refused - after a couple of years mine
was the only one that'd do more than about 6 hours!

With the combi I let it get v. low before charging. Still don't have any
tools with NiMH, as the old ones keep going.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on
Makita batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful,
but is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I
guess the same charger would work?


My charger has 2 settings, NiMH and NiCD, so I guess there is a
difference. I have been having problem with batteries running out when
using my Garmin GPS 60CSX on longish walks, tried rechargeable and
standard. How ever I have been recommended ReCyko as not bleeding their
charge and having that bit of extra. Got them but not used them yet.

Probably the wrong thing to do.
ReCyko have low leakage and will retain their charge for months, but, they
have a lower capacity and will go flat quicker while in use.
You need to buy some high capacity batteries to extend the use if they are
going flat during a period as short as a walk.


--
Please reply to group,emails to designated
address are never read.

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful, but
is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I guess the
same charger would work?

IIRC, you said you had got the exact same set that I have. If so, the
charger is one of http://www.directbrandtools.com/Deta...q sSubCat=186

Labelled 7.2v-14.4v Fast Charger or 7.2v - 14.4v NiCd , NiMH Batteries
Max Amp : 2.6Ah


So I guess it would be fine.

Darren

dmc wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be
useful, but is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH
batteries? I guess the same charger would work?

IIRC, you said you had got the exact same set that I have. If so, the
charger is one of
http://www.directbrandtools.com/Deta...q sSubCat=186

Labelled 7.2v-14.4v Fast Charger or 7.2v - 14.4v NiCd , NiMH Batteries
Max Amp : 2.6Ah

Yup, fersacterly the same.


So I guess it would be fine.

I'll blame you if it isn't :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

Just got a flyer from www.itslondon.co.uk who have special offers on Makita
batteries amongst other things.

14.4v x 2.6Ah NiMH battery for £30 + VAT. Seems good to me.

I currently have 1.3Ah NiCD's, so I guess the extra Ah would be useful, but
is there an advantage or indeed disadvantage to NiMH batteries? I guess the
same charger would work?

Depends what model your charger is. Couple of years back I bought a
Makita 14.4V charger that happily charges NiMH and NiCd, both properly.
It does say on it, but it's in the van and I cba digging it out this
time of night.

In article ,
Clint Sharp wrote:
Strange. I've been using Ni-Cads for a very long time - well before
cordless tools or mobile phones became common and have *never*
experienced this.

Mmm, indeed. Using a decent charger seems to be the key.

In the early days I used a very basic trickle charger. Still do for some.
The important thing is to avoid overcharging.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

Labelled 7.2v-14.4v Fast Charger or 7.2v - 14.4v NiCd , NiMH Batteries
Max Amp : 2.6Ah

Yup, fersacterly the same.


So I guess it would be fine.

I'll blame you if it isn't :-)

That's the one I've got - it handles the older 7.2 nicads perfectly
fine.

The message
from Broadback contains these words:

I have been having problem with batteries running out when
using my Garmin GPS 60CSX on longish walks,

One man's longish walk might be another's super marathon and no battery
charge will last for ever but those etrex GPSs that have the
barometer/electronic compass option have a reputation for eating
batteries if the compass is used. If you have the compass normally
turned on then try the gps with the electronic compass off or, if you
must have it, adjust the settings so that it is only on when you are
stationary. Personally I have never needed to use the electronic compass
(I currently have a Vista) but it must be useful to a significant number
of people otherwise Garmin would surely never have introduced it in the
first place.

--
Roger Chapman

On Jun 13, 2:12*pm, The Natural Philosopher
The biggest DISADVANTGE of NiMh is that they self discharge,
and have limited life as a result. They go flat and lose capacity.


IMHO you have that arse about face. NiMH have far lower self discharge
than NiCad. I haven't charged my NiMH screwdriver for months and it
still works fine where a NiCad one would need charging every time i
needed to use it.

MBQ

On Jun 15, 4:00*pm, Roger wrote:
The message
from Broadback contains these words:

I have been having problem with batteries running out when
using my Garmin GPS 60CSX on longish walks,

One man's longish walk might be another's super marathon and no battery
charge will last for ever but those etrex GPSs that have the
barometer/electronic compass option have a reputation for eating
batteries if the compass is used. If you have the compass normally
turned on then try the gps with the electronic compass off or, if you
must have it, adjust the settings so that it is only on when you are
stationary. Personally I have never needed to use the electronic compass
(I currently have a Vista) but it must be useful to a significant number
of people otherwise Garmin would surely never have introduced it in the
first place.

LOL. I guess handheld GPS must be useful to those who can't navigate
the old fashioned way, otherwise Garmin and others would surely never
have introduced them in the first place.

MBQ

The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

LOL. I guess handheld GPS must be useful to those who can't navigate
the old fashioned way, otherwise Garmin and others would surely never
have introduced them in the first place.

Hand held GPS can be useful even to those who can navigate the old
fashioned way. However I remain to be convinced of the usefulness of a
compass whose accuracy is quoted as plus/minus 5 degrees.

--
Roger Chapman

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

LOL. I guess handheld GPS must be useful to those who can't navigate
the old fashioned way, otherwise Garmin and others would surely never
have introduced them in the first place.

Hand held GPS can be useful even to those who can navigate the old
fashioned way. However I remain to be convinced of the usefulness of a
compass whose accuracy is quoted as plus/minus 5 degrees.

--
Roger Chapman

Might be good enough to get you going in at least the right general
direction, if you were stuck in some wilderness or on the sea in really bad
weather, with no map data for the area, loaded ??

Arfa

The message
from "Arfa Daily" contains these words:

Hand held GPS can be useful even to those who can navigate the old
fashioned way. However I remain to be convinced of the usefulness of a
compass whose accuracy is quoted as plus/minus 5 degrees.

Might be good enough to get you going in at least the right general
direction, if you were stuck in some wilderness or on the sea in really bad
weather, with no map data for the area, loaded ??

Looking at moss on the N side of trees or one of the other natural
indicators will probably give as good an indication of N as the
electronic compass but that is not really the point. If you are moving
the map screen will automatically orient so you will know which way you
are going even if you don't know what it is ahead and even if you have
the typical handheld which has a map screen that tells you almost
nothing about the topography.

Personally I always carry a proper compass and at least a printout of
the map when I am out walking in unfamiliar areas. I will use the map as
the principal navigational tool and will take a bearing with the compass
if I need to identify a feature in the distance.

--
Roger Chapman