I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier does not deliver, then its my problem. The carrier will not dicuss title of the goods with me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their customer can lay claim to the goods.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

Thanks
Rick

"Rick Dipper" wrote in message
...

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?


No idea. WTF are you on about?

Si

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I
have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

No you are not right, the goods WERE delivered just not signed for. Do the
right thing and own up to Screwfix. I use them a lot and would like to keep
costs down, but acting like this we all pay more in the end!

John

I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

Did you pay by credit card as an end-useer, or trader ?

If you bought as an end-user, put the item in dispute with the credit
card company, who can start charge-back procedings against Screwfix - you
didn`t get the goods, they haven`t been signed for, and Screwfix can`t
provide a signature to say they were delivered.

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On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:02:43 +0000 (UTC), "John" wrote:

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I
have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

No you are not right, the goods WERE delivered just not signed for. Do the
right thing and own up to Screwfix. I use them a lot and would like to keep
costs down, but acting like this we all pay more in the end!

John


I have owned up, they want a signature on collection, which they won't get,
but they can take the stuff away.

Rick

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:00:42 GMT, Rick Dipper
wrote:

I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier does not deliver, then its my problem. The carrier will not dicuss title of the goods with me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their customer can lay claim to the goods.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

Thanks
Rick

Your complaint is really with the monkey driving the ParcelForce van
that day. ;-)

Mark S.

This does work the other way though.

knowing that you were expecting a delivery it would be
reasonable to think that you would be around to accept the goods
when delivered.
so its a bit of give and take i feel, as i have had stuff delivered and
not been around but its been more than happy to have
the stuff dropped around the back garden or to next door
so that i can get on with the job.
admittedly in your case it was a bit late.



"Rick Dipper" wrote in message
...
I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a
neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from
her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them
away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods
will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier
does not deliver, then its my problem. The carrier will not dicuss title of
the goods with me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their
customer can lay claim to the goods.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I
have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

Thanks
Rick

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:31:50 +0100, Mark S. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:00:42 GMT, Rick Dipper
wrote:

I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier does not deliver, then its my problem. The carrier will not dicuss title of the goods with
me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their customer can lay claim to the goods.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

Thanks
Rick

Your complaint is really with the monkey driving the ParcelForce van
that day. ;-)

It was "Lynx Express", not ParcelForce, who deliver weekly to the correct address.
Yep, if the delivery guy screws up, I feel Screwfix have done a bad job, but in reality the "Screwfix Serivce" as a whole is bad, the bit they outsourced, not the bit
they did themselves. The morrels and probems of outsourcing, a good topic for a real long debate ........


Mark S.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods
will pass to you."

AFAIK from March this year such a clause is no longer valid. However, this
may only apply to despatches to private individuals.

"Rick Dipper" wrote in message
...
I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a
neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from
her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them
away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods
will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier
does not deliver, then its my problem. The carrier will not dicuss title of
the goods with me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their
customer can lay claim to the goods.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I
have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

Thanks
Rick



Their wording in the Terms and Conditions is unlawful, I know this, because
we've just had to go through the same thing.

The title of goods is with Screwfix until they receive a valid signature
from the intended recipient, or by someone acting as a proxy for the real
intended recipient as proof of full delivery. If someone is acting as a
proxy recipient, then they must sign for the delivery as such with the words
"Per Proxy" or the mark "PP" after their signature. If this is not marked
on the delivery sheet, then the person signing for the goods is fully
responsible for the goods while in their possession and title for the goods
is then passed to them as they accepted the full delivery. If the recipient
has made clear they are only a proxy signatory for the real intended
recipient, then title of the goods is still with Screwfix until they receive
payment from the purchaser.

If any packaging is damaged on delivery, then it is within your right to
refuse the delivery or accept it but have the driver sign the invoice as
evidence that they witnessed the damage on the packets. If someone is
acting as a proxy recipient on your behalf, then they may sign for the
delivery with the words "Goods Unexamined" or just "Unexamined" on the
delivery invoice. If this is not done, then the proxy recipient can be held
responsible for any damage or loss whilst the goods are in their possession
and the vendor may then make a demand for payment on the goods from the
original purchaser, and then title is passed on for the purchaser to enact
any terms from the proxy recipient for the damage or loss of the goods.

Basically, the law states that possession of the goods is 9/10ths of the
law, unless the vendor can prove that the goods were ordered and delivered
as promised and that the recipient or their proxy has made final receipt by
issuing their signature on any document intended for this purpose. If no
signature is issued and the goods are left on site in speculation of
receipt, then the vendor is still responsible for the goods and any damage
or loss effected on them.


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On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:00:42 GMT, Rick Dipper
wrote:


They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier does not deliver, then its my problem.

That is correct if you ordered in a company or trade name or on a
trade account.


The carrier will not dicuss title of the goods with me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their customer can lay claim to the goods.

That is also correct.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I have to pay,

You have to pay whatever happens to the goods unless you return them
safely - the risk is with you now. Welcome to the Sale of Goods
Act.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:47:29 GMT, Rick Dipper
wrote:

It was "Lynx Express",

Why does that not surprise me in the slightest! They're bloody useless
in my area, and the "system" they use which lets that happen can let
it happen elsewhere too I'd imagine, certainly in your area by the
look of things.

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

Rick I don't see your problem.

Simply return the first unwanted order to Screwfix who will then refund you.
They will even arrange to collect it.

I have returned approx 10 items to them and had no problems with them
refunding. Especially if the goods are in the original box and packaging.

Or have I missed something?

John


"Rick Dipper" wrote in message
...
I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a
neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from
her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them
away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods
will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier
does not deliver, then its my problem. The carrier will not dicuss title of
the goods with me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their
customer can lay claim to the goods.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I
have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

Thanks
Rick

I wonder what you ordered, was it soemthing from the big stuff section
with a long lead time.

I have a lost parcel once (only 1 of 2 arrived) and then they where
happy to send a duplicate with instructions to me to refuse delivery
if the missing package turned up.

I must admit the duplicate came via Lynx and was a day late ona before
12 delivery, seems a whole truck load got mislaid for a night then.

I think like most things, you pays your money and takes your choice.
The prices are very competitive, especially over local suppliers here.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:00:42 GMT, Rick Dipper
wrote:

I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods will pass to you."

So they give my goods to a carrier of thier choosing, and if the carrier does not deliver, then its my problem. The carrier will not dicuss title of the goods with me,
as I am not the customer, Screwfix are, and in their eyes only their customer can lay claim to the goods.

They are now telling me, that if the foods are lost before they collect I have to pay, but they have never been delivered why should I pay ?

Have I gone "off on one" or am I right ?

Thanks
Rick


Lawrence

usenet at lklyne dt co dt uk

"Rick Dipper" wrote in message
...
I am having a nightmare with Screwfix, who deposited my order with a
neghbour 8 days after I orderd it.
I needed the items, so I re-orderd to a different address, and they came.

The neighbour got upset at the orignal delivery, so I collected them from
her house and the goods are on my drive.
At no time have I or anybody else ever signed for delivery.

Terms and conditions item 3 appears to apply
"A valid signature will be required on collection or delivery."
To which I say, no signature, thefore not delivered, you can take them
away, I ain't paying.
The items are still in transit.

They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods
will pass to you."



Unfortunately if you accept their t&c's then you accept this.

A solicitor may be able to argue that this is unreasonable, but can you
afford the legal costs ?

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:26:25 +0100, "John Greenwood"
wrote:

Or have I missed something?

I can't know for sure of course, but you may have; last time Lynx
delivered Screwfix goods here they all but destroyed the goods as well
as holding on to them for an extra 4 days, for no reason that they
were able or willing to supply to me or Screwfix. So maybe they've
struck again and the OP hasn't mentioned that bit so far? shrug

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:42:03 +0100, Lawrence
wrote:

I must admit the duplicate came via Lynx and was a day late ona before
12 delivery, seems a whole truck load got mislaid for a night then.

Starting to look like there's a pattern forming where Lynx are
involved.

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

Peter

Can you please tell me where this extreemly usefull informaation comes from ?

Many Thanks
Rick


On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:11:18 +0100, "Peter Crosland" wrote:
They say (terms and conditions item 3)
"Immediately prior to despatch of the goods to you, title in the goods
will pass to you."

AFAIK from March this year such a clause is no longer valid. However, this
may only apply to despatches to private individuals.

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:40:38 GMT, Rick Dipper
wrote:


Can you please tell me where this extreemly usefull informaation comes from ?

It isn't totally correct. Title (ownership) in the goods can pass to
you independently of risk (responsibility for loss) and it is the
point at which risk, not title, transferred in consumer transactions
which changed.

Prior to March of last year the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) transferred
risk to the purchaser at the point of delivery to the carrier at the
sellers premises. For many years many suppliers had actually
accepted that risk during delivery was theirs up to the point of the
customers premises. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers
Regulations 2002 amended the SOGA to make the seller at risk in
consumer transactions until the goods were delivered. It does not
prevent title passing before despatch.

Note that as was said the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers
Regulations 2002 applies _only_ to sales to consumers. If you
purchase in a business name then the default is that risk still
transfers at the sellers premises and the suppliers T&C's can
override the SOGA.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/