I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but disallow
its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

They've sent it out in advance: what's the problem? It's like Visa
sending you a replacement card now valid from 07/07.

In some of the debate on post office closures HMG was being criticised
for taking business away from them with online systems like this. I've
used it to retax my car and found it a great time-saver.

For both tax and SORN, I find it a bit of a PITA that I can't do it as soon
as I receive the reminder note. It means I then have two weeks to forget
that I got the reminder before I can do anything with it. Which makes it a
bit of a failure as a reminder...

Hoever I'm not blaming conspiracy ("job creation scheme"), I'm just blaming
a bit of non-joined up thinking.

cheers,
clive

On 2007-06-08 13:27:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

Yes, I had the same nonsense with my wife's car.

In order to apply for a tax disc you need to have MOT certificate and
proof of insurance, but as you say, there is a 15 day window at the end
of the month.

Because of when the car was purchased, all three were due at the same time.

I hate spending any time at all on cars - they are means of getting me
plus items that I want comfortably between A and B quickly and
efficiently and that's it. I have zero interest in them otherwise.
To that end, I have the garage come and collect the things, service
them and return them and apart from the odd thing where there is a
substantial difference on price such as tyres and exhausts and MOT
which I can get done conveniently at the end of the road, that's it.

I also hate post offices with a vengeance and especially titting around
at them renewing tax discs (mainly because only certain ones can do it).

It was pleasing, therefore to see that with the renewal before last
that it was possible to do the whole thing on line. The trouble is
that with the 15 day window and with co-expiring insurance and MOT it
doesn't work. The MOT reference does seem to go through quickly
enough, but the insurance information goes via some intermediate
organisation and database and the time for that to be loaded up depends
on the insurance company. At any rate, it can take 2 weeks plus.

After further titting around, I eventually bought a 6 month tax disc to
make the insurance and tax asynchronous. This has resolved the problem.

The whole setup is onanism par excellence.

The obvious thing to do would be to outsource tax disk issuance to the
motor insurers and give them access to the database of MOT records.
That would take two organisations out of the equation and have the
added benefit that one is the post office, thus hastening the demise of
that entire setup.

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:27:50 +0100 The Natural Philosopher wrote :
I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they
need extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first
place?

They've sent it out in advance: what's the problem? It's like Visa
sending you a replacement card now valid from 07/07.

No it isn't. Your VISA card has clearly stated on it things like VALID
FROM XX/XX/XXXX

The V11 has NO SUCH INFORMATION ON IT!!!

Neither does the website.

Only by using the phone is it - with a bit of lateral thinking -
apparent that the problem is that they haven't trickled the info down to
the computers..And yet it MUST BE computer generated, ARRGGGHH!!



In some of the debate on post office closures HMG was being criticised
for taking business away from them with online systems like this. I've
used it to retax my car and found it a great time-saver.


So have I, but they have made a fundamental error. That could be fixed
with a bloody great message on the V11 saying 'online registration
doesn't work until the 15th of the month'

Now when its a paying matter, I would leave it till the last minute
obviously..but when its a freebie..get it out of the way right away surely?

Clive George wrote:
"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

They've sent it out in advance: what's the problem? It's like Visa
sending you a replacement card now valid from 07/07.

In some of the debate on post office closures HMG was being criticised
for taking business away from them with online systems like this. I've
used it to retax my car and found it a great time-saver.

For both tax and SORN, I find it a bit of a PITA that I can't do it as
soon as I receive the reminder note. It means I then have two weeks to
forget that I got the reminder before I can do anything with it. Which
makes it a bit of a failure as a reminder...

Hoever I'm not blaming conspiracy ("job creation scheme"), I'm just
blaming a bit of non-joined up thinking.

That just *happens* to mean more people get employed by the government,
whose jobs are dependent on an inefficient Nu Laber regime that
multiplies bureaucracy at every possible point.

I think government employees should be disqualified from voting.
Lets face it, the whole civil service is just one huge rotten borough.

cheers,
clive

The Natural Philosopher ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but disallow
its use for a fortnight?

You could SORN the thing now, but it'd only be SORNed until the start of
June next year. If you want to SORN it until the start of July, you've got
to wait until the middle of June.

If you want to do it now, just dig out the V5C and use the document
reference from that.

On 8 Jun, 13:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but disallow
its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

From an administration point of view, they need to send out roughly
reminders for 1/12 of the number of cars in the country every month.
Therefore, they are not going to be able to do that on a single day so
would assume they are sent out from the 1st - 15th. Then from the 16th
to 31st they can start sending out the tax discs. This keeps it simple.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:27:50 +0100 The Natural Philosopher wrote :
I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they
need extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first
place?

They've sent it out in advance: what's the problem? It's like Visa
sending you a replacement card now valid from 07/07.

In some of the debate on post office closures HMG was being criticised
for taking business away from them with online systems like this. I've
used it to retax my car and found it a great time-saver.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-06-08 13:27:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they
need extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

Yes, I had the same nonsense with my wife's car.

In order to apply for a tax disc you need to have MOT certificate and
proof of insurance, but as you say, there is a 15 day window at the end
of the month.

Because of when the car was purchased, all three were due at the same time.

I hate spending any time at all on cars - they are means of getting me
plus items that I want comfortably between A and B quickly and
efficiently and that's it. I have zero interest in them otherwise.
To that end, I have the garage come and collect the things, service them
and return them and apart from the odd thing where there is a
substantial difference on price such as tyres and exhausts and MOT which
I can get done conveniently at the end of the road, that's it.

I also hate post offices with a vengeance and especially titting around
at them renewing tax discs (mainly because only certain ones can do it).

It was pleasing, therefore to see that with the renewal before last that
it was possible to do the whole thing on line. The trouble is that with
the 15 day window and with co-expiring insurance and MOT it doesn't
work. The MOT reference does seem to go through quickly enough, but
the insurance information goes via some intermediate organisation and
database and the time for that to be loaded up depends on the insurance
company. At any rate, it can take 2 weeks plus.

After further titting around, I eventually bought a 6 month tax disc to
make the insurance and tax asynchronous. This has resolved the problem.

The whole setup is onanism par excellence.

The obvious thing to do would be to outsource tax disk issuance to the
motor insurers and give them access to the database of MOT records.
That would take two organisations out of the equation and have the added
benefit that one is the post office, thus hastening the demise of that
entire setup.



The answer is simple.

Get it MOT' ed a month earlier. Its possible to get up to a 13month MOT,
or just MOT it again anytime.

And change your insurance company a couple of months shy of the end of
the year. or ask them to change the renewal date.

Mid you my father in law got caught out that way..ws in an accident
before he remembered he hadn't MOT'ed the car 6 months earlier.. ;-)

Adrian wrote:
The Natural Philosopher ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but disallow
its use for a fortnight?

You could SORN the thing now, but it'd only be SORNed until the start of
June next year. If you want to SORN it until the start of July, you've got
to wait until the middle of June.

If you want to do it now, just dig out the V5C and use the document
reference from that.

Yeah. possibly.

The Natural Philosopher wrote in news:1181305731.27793.0
@proxy00.news.clara.net:

I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow
its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

It is patently obvious, to me at any rate, that it would be nigh
impossible to send out every reminder in the 10 days before the retaxing
is due.

And it does say that you can only tax the car from the 15th. !

Terry W.

On Jun 8, 1:27 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but disallow
its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

It used to clearly state on the form that it coould not be used until
the 15th. I'm sure it still dod on the last one I had.

MBQ

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:01:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

No it isn't. Your VISA card has clearly stated on it things like VALID
FROM XX/XX/XXXX

The V11 has NO SUCH INFORMATION ON IT!!!

Neither does the website.

The reminder I got last month did have that information on it. Can't
remember the exact wording, but the 15th of the month is pretty clearly
mentioned.

I agree it's stupid that they send out the reminders before you
can use them though. The error from the website could definitely be
improved to say "that's a valid reference, but you can't buy until next
week" too.

Kieran

Terry W. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote in news:1181305731.27793.0
@proxy00.news.clara.net:

I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow
its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

It is patently obvious, to me at any rate, that it would be nigh
impossible to send out every reminder in the 10 days before the retaxing
is due.

And it does say that you can only tax the car from the 15th. !


You are right. In an almost indecipherable color.

The whole form is a complete mess anyway.

Terry W.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

[snip]
I also hate post offices with a vengeance and especially titting
around at them renewing tax discs (mainly because only certain
ones can do it).

It was pleasing, therefore to see that with the renewal before
last that it was possible to do the whole thing on line. The
trouble is that with the 15 day window and with co-expiring
insurance and MOT it doesn't work. The MOT reference does seem
to go through quickly enough, but the insurance information goes
via some intermediate organisation and database and the time for
that to be loaded up depends on the insurance company. At any
rate, it can take 2 weeks plus.

Snap! I paid the insurance asap and had the actual
certificate here before the 15th. On the 15th I tried
the website, and tried, and tried on successive days.
Two days before it ran out I gave in and renewed at the
post office. Bummer.

--
Tony Williams.

On 2007-06-08 14:55:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

The answer is simple.

I preferred the one that took a government department out of the
equation and hastened the demise of the Cretaceous post office.




Get it MOT' ed a month earlier. Its possible to get up to a 13month
MOT, or just MOT it again anytime.

And change your insurance company a couple of months shy of the end of
the year. or ask them to change the renewal date.

It's yet more faff to deal with. Anyway, the 6 month shift on the
tax renewal solved the problem





Mid you my father in law got caught out that way..ws in an accident
before he remembered he hadn't MOT'ed the car 6 months earlier.. ;-)

It seems that there isn't anything to pick that up...

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:33:23 -0700, wrote:

On Jun 8, 1:27 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the current
tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but disallow
its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

It used to clearly state on the form that it coould not be used until
the 15th. I'm sure it still dod on the last one I had.

MBQ

I was told in February that it was going to change at some point to allow a
few extra days - they may just have been trying to placate me though as I
was somewhat annoyed with them.

I'd received the reminder at the start of the month, forgot about it and
then suddenly remembered in the middle of the night on the 15th. Re-taxed
online on the 16th (a Friday). You then have to wait five working days for
delivery before questioning where it is, this took me to the 23rd and as I
go to work before the post is delivered, I did not find out until I got
home that it had still not arrived. It was then too late to call until
Monday 26th. They told me they would send me another, but it would take
five working days, thus arriving well after the end of the month! With a
rush delivery they could get it to me on the 1st, but of course I would
have to go to work before the post arrived!

It is of course an offense not to *display* a valid tax disk - little
chance of any problem, but why should I have to break the law or lose pay
because of their unreliable and slow delivery system?

The only alternative I was given was to go to a post-office, tax it that
way and then request a refund on the disk that I'd already paid for.

SteveW

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes

V11

You are right. In an almost indecipherable color.

The whole form is a complete mess anyway.

The problem with renewing MVLs (tax disks) either online or at the PO is
invariable the customer, who is far too stupid to live on this planet.
Drowning at birth would have been a far simpler solution for the vast
majority, and would have the added benefit of generally cleansing the
gene pool.

Let me see, now. Form V11. MVL application. What does it say? Oh
yes, here it is, in red :

THE EARLIEST YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LICENCE IS 15.xx.xx

Yes, I can see how such a statement is far too taxing (!) for the
average vehicle driving cretin. Totally ambiguous. Just because the
statement clearly says THE EARLIEST YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LICENCE IS
15.xx.xx, it obviously means the first of the month. No, wait, perhaps
it means the tenth. Just because it says the 15th, it cannot possibly
mean the 15th.

Those who complain are invariably the ones who see, at the foot of the
form, AN APPROPRIATE MOT TEST CERTIFICATE, and therefore do not have a
valid certificate of insurance. Or arrive with a policy, or a schedule,
but not a certificate. Oh, then there are the real bottom of the barrel
jobs who bring in a faxed copy, or a photocopy. Or bring to the PO a
cheque payable to DVLA. Or expect to pay by credit card. Or bring in a
reminder form dated three months ago. These are the numskulls who will
spend a quarter of an hour arguing, and hold up the queue, even though
all of the above points are clearly explained on the V11.

The fact that these 'people' are usually successful in purchasing a disk
eventually is terrifying. They are actually allowed out on the public
road! Most of 'em are too stupid to find their own backsides without a
map and compass, and they are allowed to drive. Really, really scary.

It is fully appreciated that posters to uk.d-i-y are capable of reading
a simple form, and acting accordingly. None of the above could possibly
apply to such upright, intelligent citizens :-)
--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:

The problem with renewing MVLs (tax disks) either online or at the PO is
invariable the customer, who is far too stupid to live on this planet.

Yes, when the web site says "enter the unique reference number from your
form, its printed in the yellow box, here is a picture of a yellow box
just in case you are really dense" it must be the dumb end uses fault
for lack of perception just because his form seems to have an empty
yellow box with no number in it - yet again for the nth year running. No
doubt the reference number would be a clear as day if only he was a
little smarter.

Still after ten mins of being told that all the likely looking numbers
strewn about the form and otherwise unidentified *aren't* the number the
site wants, he goes back to the registration mark and a reference from
the logbook once he has searched the filing cabinet to find it.

Drowning at birth would have been a far simpler solution for the vast
majority, and would have the added benefit of generally cleansing the
gene pool.

Let me see, now. Form V11. MVL application. What does it say? Oh
yes, here it is, in red :

THE EARLIEST YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LICENCE IS 15.xx.xx

It would be too hard to expect a big computer to be able to cope with
time spans of more than 15 days I guess.

Yes, I can see how such a statement is far too taxing (!) for the
average vehicle driving cretin. Totally ambiguous. Just because the
statement clearly says THE EARLIEST YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LICENCE IS
15.xx.xx, it obviously means the first of the month. No, wait, perhaps
it means the tenth. Just because it says the 15th, it cannot possibly
mean the 15th.

No well, indeed. Here is a reminder to do something that you can't do
yet. By the time you can do it you will have forgotten, but we won't
remind you about that. In fact all we really wanted to do was waste a
stamp at your expense. Yes we know that you bought one online last year,
but no, we can't email you a reminder on the right day...

Those who complain are invariably the ones who see, at the foot of the
form, AN APPROPRIATE MOT TEST CERTIFICATE, and therefore do not have a
valid certificate of insurance. Or arrive with a policy, or a schedule,

Yes we will print half the things you need to take in such a way as it
is obvious, but bury the other half in the small print of the form.
Software is very difficult to write you know, you can't expect us to
have it print a nice list of all the things to bring on one place and in
a consistent font and layout.

but not a certificate. Oh, then there are the real bottom of the barrel
jobs who bring in a faxed copy, or a photocopy. Or bring to the PO a

Yes well it is not like insurance and MOT records are held
electronically or anything now is it? I mean just because the web site
can check these things automatically, how on earth would you expect a
post office to be able to do this. They use different sized electricity
for a start!

cheque payable to DVLA.

Well that is just daft, I mean I know that is who you are actually
paying, but since when did you start going about writing out cheques to
people and putting *their* name on it?

Or expect to pay by credit card.

The horror of it. How unreasonable to expect to pay for car tax in the
same way as you could anything else? These newfangled ideas people get.
Next thing you know they will be expecting automatic renewal of their
car tax charged to DD or a cc of their choice.

Or bring in a
reminder form dated three months ago.

Yes, well obviously the car will have spontaneously ceased to exist in
that sort of time frame, so it makes no sense to want to tax it now.

These are the numskulls who will
spend a quarter of an hour arguing, and hold up the queue, even though
all of the above points are clearly explained on the V11.

Of course the highly professional staff at that elite organisation will
never contribute to these conflicts....

perhaps by suggesting that "You can't renew that now, two days before
the end of the month, because that MOT runs out in a week, that's not
really long enough, we like to see at least a fortnight to run on it"

After 20 mins standing in a queue: "Oh, you need to queue up at till
number one for tax discs", "Why should we put up a sign? It should be
obvious, what are you; stupid?"

or "yes I know you might never of heard of a Subaru before, but that
does not mean I want you to write Sunbeam on the tax disc for me, trust
me I can read the makers name off the back of the car, and look it is
written on this nice form here"

The fact that these 'people' are usually successful in purchasing a disk
eventually is terrifying. They are actually allowed out on the public
road! Most of 'em are too stupid to find their own backsides without a
map and compass, and they are allowed to drive. Really, really scary.

Just as well they can still hope to find gainful employment at a post
office then, otherwise they would be doomed.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2007-06-08 20:46:02 +0100, Graeme said:

Let me see, now. Form V11. MVL application. What does it say? Oh
yes, here it is, in red :

THE EARLIEST YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LICENCE IS 15.xx.xx

Why have an earliest date? Why not have a much longer time window?

Or bring to the PO a cheque payable to DVLA.

This would be reasonable since the money is for the DVLA, other than
writing cheques is ridiculous anyway.



Or expect to pay by credit card.

That would be entirely reasonable.

Or bring in a reminder form dated three months ago.

If the time window of the reminder were reasonable, this wouldn't be an issue.


These are the numskulls who will spend a quarter of an hour arguing,
and hold up the queue,

There shouldn't be a queue if it were properly staffed. This is
one of the reasons why I steadfastly avoid having anything to do with
the post office if I can possibly avoid it. It is of the same mind
set as organisations like the NHS - there needs to be a queue in order
that its customers think that they are getting something of value.

The DVLA should outsource their collections elsewhere.

Clive George wrote:

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"


They've sent it out in advance: what's the problem? It's like Visa
sending you a replacement card now valid from 07/07.

In some of the debate on post office closures HMG was being criticised
for taking business away from them with online systems like this. I've
used it to retax my car and found it a great time-saver.


For both tax and SORN, I find it a bit of a PITA that I can't do it as
soon as I receive the reminder note. It means I then have two weeks to
forget that I got the reminder before I can do anything with it. Which
makes it a bit of a failure as a reminder...

Hoever I'm not blaming conspiracy ("job creation scheme"), I'm just
blaming a bit of non-joined up thinking.

That has been a problem all the way through this government :-(

Dave

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they need
extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?

Even better,

I tried retaxing my van a couple of weeks ago online

I'd got the reminder, the MOT, paid the insurance renewal, but...

because the insurance policy renewal date was the 29th, it wouldn't let
me renew online

I went straight down the post office and had a tax disk half an hour
later

then I bought a fireblade which didn't have a current (in May) tax disk,
I couldn't apply for one until 48 hours before the new month

Do they REALLY want you to tax vehicles ?




--
geoff

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-06-08 13:27:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they
need extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?


Yes, I had the same nonsense with my wife's car.

In order to apply for a tax disc you need to have MOT certificate and
proof of insurance, but as you say, there is a 15 day window at the end
of the month.

Because of when the car was purchased, all three were due at the same time.

I hate spending any time at all on cars - they are means of getting me
plus items that I want comfortably between A and B quickly and
efficiently and that's it. I have zero interest in them otherwise.
To that end, I have the garage come and collect the things, service them
and return them and apart from the odd thing where there is a
substantial difference on price such as tyres and exhausts and MOT which
I can get done conveniently at the end of the road, that's it.

I also hate post offices with a vengeance and especially titting around
at them renewing tax discs (mainly because only certain ones can do it).

It was pleasing, therefore to see that with the renewal before last that
it was possible to do the whole thing on line. The trouble is that with
the 15 day window and with co-expiring insurance and MOT it doesn't
work. The MOT reference does seem to go through quickly enough, but
the insurance information goes via some intermediate organisation and
database and the time for that to be loaded up depends on the insurance
company. At any rate, it can take 2 weeks plus.

After further titting around, I eventually bought a 6 month tax disc to
make the insurance and tax asynchronous. This has resolved the problem.

Thanks for that Andy. I will be in the same situation come next October.
Both the first MOT and insurance will be due at the same time. Next
april, I will tax it for 6 months to split it apart.

Dave

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-06-08 13:27:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

I recieve a notice to relicense my car.

Its off road and has been for two years. So its a zero cost SORN..

I try the website:-

"Sorry, we don't have a record of that reference number"

I phone up
"Sorry, that reference number is not recognised"

And..as an afterthought they helpfully add.."V11 references are only
valid from the 15th day of the month preceding the expiry of the
current tax disc"

So, they send out a reminder at the beginning of the month, but
disallow its use for a fortnight?

I assume its just another job creation scheme, to ensure that they
need extra staff to process it around the month end.

Fer *** sake, if I can't use the thing, why send it in the first place?


Yes, I had the same nonsense with my wife's car.

In order to apply for a tax disc you need to have MOT certificate and
proof of insurance, but as you say, there is a 15 day window at the
end of the month.

Because of when the car was purchased, all three were due at the same
time.

I hate spending any time at all on cars - they are means of getting me
plus items that I want comfortably between A and B quickly and
efficiently and that's it. I have zero interest in them
otherwise. To that end, I have the garage come and collect the
things, service them and return them and apart from the odd thing
where there is a substantial difference on price such as tyres and
exhausts and MOT which I can get done conveniently at the end of the
road, that's it.

I also hate post offices with a vengeance and especially titting
around at them renewing tax discs (mainly because only certain ones
can do it).

It was pleasing, therefore to see that with the renewal before last
that it was possible to do the whole thing on line. The trouble is
that with the 15 day window and with co-expiring insurance and MOT it
doesn't work. The MOT reference does seem to go through quickly
enough, but the insurance information goes via some intermediate
organisation and database and the time for that to be loaded up
depends on the insurance company. At any rate, it can take 2 weeks
plus.

After further titting around, I eventually bought a 6 month tax disc
to make the insurance and tax asynchronous. This has resolved the
problem.

The whole setup is onanism par excellence.

The obvious thing to do would be to outsource tax disk issuance to the
motor insurers and give them access to the database of MOT records.
That would take two organisations out of the equation and have the
added benefit that one is the post office, thus hastening the demise
of that entire setup.



The answer is simple.

Get it MOT' ed a month earlier. Its possible to get up to a 13month MOT,
or just MOT it again anytime.

And change your insurance company a couple of months shy of the end of
the year. or ask them to change the renewal date.

Mid you my father in law got caught out that way..ws in an accident
before he remembered he hadn't MOT'ed the car 6 months earlier.. ;-)

I did that with the 'tother' car. I was driving it around for 6 months
without an MOT :-(

Dave

On 2007-06-08 22:51:22 +0100, Dave said:

Andy Hall wrote:


After further titting around, I eventually bought a 6 month tax disc to
make the insurance and tax asynchronous. This has resolved the problem.

Thanks for that Andy. I will be in the same situation come next
October. Both the first MOT and insurance will be due at the same time.
Next april, I will tax it for 6 months to split it apart.

Dave

It also has the advantage that the costs are more evenly spread over the year.

On 2007-06-08 22:41:48 +0100, raden said:

Do they REALLY want you to tax vehicles ?

Of course. They simply work on the assumption that your time has zero
value - probably because theirs has.

In message , Andy Hall writes
Or bring to the PO a cheque payable to DVLA.

This would be reasonable since the money is for the DVLA, other than
writing cheques is ridiculous anyway.



Or expect to pay by credit card.

Have you noticed the ridiculous 2 1/2% or whatever they profiteeringly
charge for using a credit card

what percentage do they pay credit card companies, 0.5% ?

same with travel agents etc

thieving *******s, they prolly trickle water past their meters as well
....

--
geoff

Brian Morrison wrote:
Kieran Mansley wrote:

I agree it's stupid that they send out the reminders before you
can use them though. The error from the website could definitely be
improved to say "that's a valid reference, but you can't buy until next
week" too.

Far simpler would be to accept the renewal and payment, and then not
actually post out the tax disc until after the 15th of the month so that
it cannot be put on the vehicle ahead of time.

It's an offence to have it on before time anyway.

The expiry date and the period is written on it..easy enough to check.

On 2007-06-09 01:02:41 +0100, raden said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
Or bring to the PO a cheque payable to DVLA.

This would be reasonable since the money is for the DVLA, other than
writing cheques is ridiculous anyway.



Or expect to pay by credit card.

Have you noticed the ridiculous 2 1/2% or whatever they profiteeringly
charge for using a credit card

It's £2.50. Just over 1%. I thought it was well worth that,
not to have to go to the post office.




what percentage do they pay credit card companies, 0.5% ?

Not sure. I thought that card processing was 2%+ depending on what is
negotiated.




same with travel agents etc

They don't do anything worthwhile either




thieving *******s, they prolly trickle water past their meters as well ...

Almost certainly

On 2007-06-09 01:17:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

Brian Morrison wrote:
Kieran Mansley wrote:

I agree it's stupid that they send out the reminders before you
can use them though. The error from the website could definitely be
improved to say "that's a valid reference, but you can't buy until next
week" too.

Far simpler would be to accept the renewal and payment, and then not
actually post out the tax disc until after the 15th of the month so that
it cannot be put on the vehicle ahead of time.

It's an offence to have it on before time anyway.

The expiry date and the period is written on it..easy enough to check.

The time window is 10 days in reality. You can't apply before 15 days
before the time and they say that that a new disk can take 5 days to
arrive.


Come to think of it, why are we f*cking about with a silly round bit of
paper anyway? The DVLA has a database of vehicle ownerships, numbers
and registrations as well as MOT and insurance.

Who checks for absent/expired tax disks? The old bill, I believe,
and they also have access to said data.

On line payment or a direct debit would be a far more appropriate means
to collect the tax revenue, and if they must, send out a receipt by
email.

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 01:43:05 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Who checks for absent/expired tax disks? The old bill, I believe,
and they also have access to said data.

I believe traffic wardens and parking attendants also have 'powers' to
check tax discs.

--
Frank Erskine

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Come to think of it, why are we f*cking about with a silly round bit of
paper anyway?

Yet another failure to think in a sufficiently criminal fashion. All you'd
have to do then is make sure, when you put false number plates on your
vehicle, that you've picked the number of someone who has paid their tax.
Forging the piece of paper is supposed to more difficult than forging number
plates.

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor

On 2007-06-09 07:54:46 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 01:43:05 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Who checks for absent/expired tax disks? The old bill, I believe,
and they also have access to said data.

I believe traffic wardens and parking attendants also have 'powers' to
check tax discs.

Even more reason to abolish them.... and tax discs.

A far better role for these people (which would still reasonably be
covered by their job title) would be to do valet parking. This would
fulfill their original purpose and be far more useful to their
customers.

In message , John
Rumm writes
Graeme wrote:

The problem with renewing MVLs (tax disks) either online or at the PO
is invariable the customer, who is far too stupid to live on this
planet.

Yes, when the web site says "enter the unique reference number from
your form, its printed in the yellow box, here is a picture of a yellow
box just in case you are really dense" it must be the dumb end uses
fault for lack of perception just because his form seems to have an
empty yellow box with no number in it - yet again for the nth year
running. No doubt the reference number would be a clear as day if only
he was a little smarter.

I cannot discuss the rights and wrongs of renewing online, or by
telephone, as it is not something I have tried. I have, though, been
taxing my own vehicles for nearly forty years, and have yet to
experience a problem - the current system is a lot easier and quicker
than the old systems.

No well, indeed. Here is a reminder to do something that you can't do
yet.

Do your insurance renewal documents not arrive before the renewal date?
Mine do.

cheque payable to DVLA.

Well that is just daft, I mean I know that is who you are actually
paying, but since when did you start going about writing out cheques to
people and putting *their* name on it?

You would visit B&Q, purchase a Black and Dekker drill, and expect
payment to be to Black & Dekker?

Or expect to pay by credit card.

The horror of it.

Discussing how the system *should* work is pointless. It doesn't. Lobby
your MP. Lobby DVLA - they make the rules. All I'm trying to say is
that the current system is generally flawless at my PO - the only
problems are caused by people who will not look at the form.

There are two classes of people - the first could perhaps be described
as 'educationally challenged'. The don't know, and know they don't
know, so bring every piece of paper they can find to the PO, where their
friendly sub postmaster (i.e. me) sorts the wheat from the chaff, and
issues a disk. Easy. Painless. Fast.

The second type of person knows everything, thinks all rules and
regulations are for other people, wants to tax his new Range Rover even
though the certificate of insurance clearly refers to the Subaru he sold
six months ago, and is generally a PITA. Never wrong, always loud,
nothing is *ever* his (or her) fault.

A final thought - POs *want* to issue MVLS, believe me. Desperately.
When your application is rejected at the PO counter, it hurts the sub
postmaster more than it hurts the applicant.

--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:

then there are the real bottom of the barrel
jobs who bring in a faxed copy, or a photocopy.

It puzzles me why they insist on originals of insurance certificates these
days. They're invariably just printouts from laser printers, a good
photocopy would be virtually identical.

--
Mike Clarke

On 2007-06-09 09:13:00 +0100, "Tim Ward" said:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Come to think of it, why are we f*cking about with a silly round bit of
paper anyway?

Yet another failure to think in a sufficiently criminal fashion. All you'd
have to do then is make sure, when you put false number plates on your
vehicle, that you've picked the number of someone who has paid their tax.
Forging the piece of paper is supposed to more difficult than forging number
plates.

Return on investment?

There are three different problems to solve.

1) People with legitmately owned and plated cars who don't or forget to
pay for their VED. This doesn't require the issuance of a silly piece
of paper in order to detect and seek out the money.

2) People with legimitely owned cars who put on false number plates in
order to avoid paying congestion charges or to carry out petty crime
such a petrol station driveaways. Rather stupid, I agree, but the
DVLA still get their tax money.

3) People who steal cars and replate them in order to carry out some
more serious crime. It's quite likely that tax would have been paid
by the legitimate owner, but if not, it's not likely that £200 of tax
evasion is the most serious aspect of the case.

So the piece of paper is quite useless in terms of ensuring that tax
has been paid.

OTOH, if the objective is to establish legitimate ownership of the car,
then it fails as well.

- The piece of paper is too small to be read on a moving vehicle either
by eye or by camera

- Unless the vehicle is parked somewhere likely to attract "official
attention" it is highly unlikely that the disc would be seen.

It certainly isn't useful as an alternative to number plates. If
those can be cloned and falsified easily, it is that issue that needs
to be fixed.

On 2007-06-09 09:44:55 +0100, Mike Clarke said:

Graeme wrote:

then there are the real bottom of the barrel
jobs who bring in a faxed copy, or a photocopy.

It puzzles me why they insist on originals of insurance certificates these
days. They're invariably just printouts from laser printers, a good
photocopy would be virtually identical.

It is identical.

I renewed my insurance with an on line supplier. The certificate is
emailed as a PDF and does meet the legal requirements when printed.

If some bureaucratic idiot in a post office wants to play funny buggers
because he lives in a culture of paper pushing, that's his problem and
all the more reason not to use the post office.

On 2007-06-09 09:44:13 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , John
Rumm writes
Graeme wrote:

The problem with renewing MVLs (tax disks) either online or at the PO
is invariable the customer, who is far too stupid to live on this
planet.

Yes, when the web site says "enter the unique reference number from
your form, its printed in the yellow box, here is a picture of a yellow
box just in case you are really dense" it must be the dumb end uses
fault for lack of perception just because his form seems to have an
empty yellow box with no number in it - yet again for the nth year
running. No doubt the reference number would be a clear as day if only
he was a little smarter.

I cannot discuss the rights and wrongs of renewing online, or by
telephone, as it is not something I have tried. I have, though, been
taxing my own vehicles for nearly forty years, and have yet to
experience a problem - the current system is a lot easier and quicker
than the old systems.

Abolishing a system involving the shunting round of bits of paper - MOT
certificates, insurance certificates, tax renewal form, cheques, tax
disc would be an even greater step forward. That's five unnecessary
pieces of paper and the waste of fuel and time visiting the post office.




No well, indeed. Here is a reminder to do something that you can't do yet.

Do your insurance renewal documents not arrive before the renewal date?
Mine do.

Yes they do and you can initiate the renewal to be effective from the
required date.





cheque payable to DVLA.

Well that is just daft, I mean I know that is who you are actually
paying, but since when did you start going about writing out cheques to
people and putting *their* name on it?

You would visit B&Q, purchase a Black and Dekker drill, and expect
payment to be to Black & Dekker?

Is the post office entering into a contract of supply for the tax disc?
No. It is purely a collection method.




Or expect to pay by credit card.

The horror of it.

Discussing how the system *should* work is pointless. It doesn't.
Lobby your MP. Lobby DVLA - they make the rules. All I'm trying to
say is that the current system is generally flawless at my PO - the
only problems are caused by people who will not look at the form.

There's no need to have a form in the first place.



There are two classes of people - the first could perhaps be described
as 'educationally challenged'. The don't know, and know they don't
know, so bring every piece of paper they can find to the PO, where
their friendly sub postmaster (i.e. me) sorts the wheat from the chaff,
and issues a disk. Easy. Painless. Fast.

Unnecessary


The second type of person knows everything, thinks all rules and
regulations are for other people, wants to tax his new Range Rover even
though the certificate of insurance clearly refers to the Subaru he
sold six months ago, and is generally a PITA. Never wrong, always
loud, nothing is *ever* his (or her) fault.

Also unnecessary.


A final thought - POs *want* to issue MVLS, believe me. Desperately.


Why?



When your application is rejected at the PO counter, it hurts the sub
postmaster more than it hurts the applicant.

It's a very weak business proposition to be operating a collection
system involving pushing around pieces of paper and expecting people to
do the running around to assemble them.

There are numerous others right through to the selling of stick on
stamps that are completely pointless.

It's all the hangover of a bygone era so hardly surprising that the
post office system is in terminal decline. The intended postal
strike, although not specifically part of this will knock a few more
nails into the coffin from business that will be lost, never to return.

While one can appreciate the plight of the sub postmaster, if their
livelihood depends wholely or largely on their PO activity, wither
directly or indirectly (pull through business) they are clearly going
to run into a problem if they don't diversify into something else.

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 01:34:05 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-06-09 01:02:41 +0100, raden said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
Or bring to the PO a cheque payable to DVLA.

This would be reasonable since the money is for the DVLA, other than
writing cheques is ridiculous anyway.



Or expect to pay by credit card.

Have you noticed the ridiculous 2 1/2% or whatever they profiteeringly
charge for using a credit card

It's £2.50. Just over 1%. I thought it was well worth that,
not to have to go to the post office.



They are also not paying commision to the Post Office so they have
allready gotten more money by stealth I dont see why they should need
an extra £2.50.

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-06-09 09:44:13 +0100, Graeme said:

Do your insurance renewal documents not arrive before the renewal
date? Mine do.

Yes they do and you can initiate the renewal to be effective from the
required date.

So, exactly the same as a tax disk, then.

You would visit B&Q, purchase a Black and Dekker drill, and expect
payment to be to Black & Dekker?

Is the post office entering into a contract of supply for the tax disc?
No. It is purely a collection method.

One could argue that collecting a drill at B&Q is exactly the same.

There's no need to have a form in the first place.

Unnecessary

Also unnecessary.

Once again you are arguing against a system that is in place, which is
pointless. There must be millions of motorists who feel the same.
Whinging achieves nothing - do something positive to change the system,
if you don't like it. This is, after all, supposedly a democracy.

A final thought - POs *want* to issue MVLS, believe me. Desperately.

Why?

Because they are the most profitable regular transaction we handle.


It's all the hangover of a bygone era

Yes, of course it is, as is the 'gas board', the NHS, and any other
government (national or local) department. There are tier upon tier of
these people, most of whom have nothing to do but count paper clips.
Whilst that is perhaps not quite true, it seems to me that there is a
huge duplication of effort, not to mention job protection, and an
attitude of 'Why change, we have always done it like that'. You know
it, I know it, but if a system exists, whether to tax your car or pay
your council tax, you have little option but to follow the system. Which
is not to say that the system is correct, or should not be changed.

--
Graeme