What's the normal failure mode for low energy lamps? I have (had!) an
Osram Dulux 20W/827 lamp just above me and all of a sudden it failed -
no flickering, no dimming - it just went out!
It's temporarily replaced with a 40W candle bulb which was lying about
downstairs until tomorrow.

--
Frank Erskine

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
What's the normal failure mode for low energy lamps? I have (had!) an
Osram Dulux 20W/827 lamp just above me and all of a sudden it failed -
no flickering, no dimming - it just went out!
It's temporarily replaced with a 40W candle bulb which was lying about
downstairs until tomorrow.

The last time I dissected one there were one or two bulging electrolytics
that looked as if they were underrated.
At 50p each from Morrosons, I am in no hurry to waste time repairing one.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:
What's the normal failure mode for low energy lamps? I have (had!) an
Osram Dulux 20W/827 lamp just above me and all of a sudden it failed -
no flickering, no dimming - it just went out!
It's temporarily replaced with a 40W candle bulb which was lying about
downstairs until tomorrow.

Some months back, I wrote a whole section on this in the wikipedia
entry for fluorscent lamps...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluores..._end _of_life

If the tube ends are blackened, then it's the first choice "Emission
mix runs out", otherwise it's probably the second choice "Failure of
integral ballast electronics".

--
Andrew Gabriel

Graham wrote:
"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
What's the normal failure mode for low energy lamps? I have (had!) an
Osram Dulux 20W/827 lamp just above me and all of a sudden it failed -
no flickering, no dimming - it just went out!
It's temporarily replaced with a 40W candle bulb which was lying about
downstairs until tomorrow.

The last time I dissected one there were one or two bulging electrolytics
that looked as if they were underrated.
At 50p each from Morrosons, I am in no hurry to waste time repairing one.

49.5p actually, if you are referring to the buy-one-get-one-free 99p
offers that come round regularly. I'm rather impressed with these
bulbs - reasonably quick to get to full output, which is pleasingly
white. Can hardly go wrong for 50p ;-)

--
"He who lives by the sword laughs last."

The message .com
from contains these words:

At 50p each from Morrosons, I am in no hurry to waste time repairing one.

49.5p actually, if you are referring to the buy-one-get-one-free 99p
offers that come round regularly. I'm rather impressed with these
bulbs - reasonably quick to get to full output, which is pleasingly
white. Can hardly go wrong for 50p ;-)

Funny that. I recent bought a few from Morrisons. The only one used so
far has a delay in excess of 2 seconds before it shows any light at all.
By far the worst of all the low energy bulbs I have used since I
switched to low energy a decade or so ago.

--
Roger Chapman

What's the normal failure mode for low energy lamps? I have (had!) an
Osram Dulux 20W/827 lamp just above me and all of a sudden it failed -
no flickering, no dimming - it just went out!

There are many failure modes. Simply not working at all is the most common,
IME.

Christian.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:32:45 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

| What's the normal failure mode for low energy lamps? I have (had!) an
| Osram Dulux 20W/827 lamp just above me and all of a sudden it failed -
| no flickering, no dimming - it just went out!
|
|There are many failure modes. Simply not working at all is the most common,
|IME.

IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:32:45 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

| What's the normal failure mode for low energy lamps? I have (had!) an
| Osram Dulux 20W/827 lamp just above me and all of a sudden it failed -
| no flickering, no dimming - it just went out!
|
|There are many failure modes. Simply not working at all is the most common,
|IME.

IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.


My experience is they either are DOA or fail within a few days (had 3
like that out of half a dozen so far), or just keep going.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:


IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.
--

Just out of interest, how did you dispose of the old bulb as you aren't
supposed to bin them but there again I am hardly likely to all the way
to the dump with a broken low enegy bulb.

Kevin

On 5 Sep 2006 07:45:51 -0700, "Kev" wrote:

|
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
|
| IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
| house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
| years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
| the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
| of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.
| --
|
|Just out of interest, how did you dispose of the old bulb as you aren't
|supposed to bin them but there again I am hardly likely to all the way
|to the dump with a broken low enegy bulb.

Just binned it. Our local council does not provide special facilities, not
even at the local tip.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Roger wrote:
The message .com
from contains these words:

At 50p each from Morrosons, I am in no hurry to waste time repairing one.

49.5p actually, if you are referring to the buy-one-get-one-free 99p
offers that come round regularly. I'm rather impressed with these
bulbs - reasonably quick to get to full output, which is pleasingly
white. Can hardly go wrong for 50p ;-)

Funny that. I recent bought a few from Morrisons. The only one used so
far has a delay in excess of 2 seconds before it shows any light at all.
By far the worst of all the low energy bulbs I have used since I
switched to low energy a decade or so ago.

A bad batch or bad leccy, perhaps ? I've not had any that have been
that sluggish, although to be fair my own reaction times may be so slow
as to render any delay unnoticeable...

--
"Fact is solidified opinion"

The message
from Dave Fawthrop contains these words:

Just binned it. Our local council does not provide special facilities, not
even at the local tip.

Really? I thought they were obliged to.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 16:22:52 +0100, Guy King wrote:

|The message
|from Dave Fawthrop contains these words:
|
| Just binned it. Our local council does not provide special facilities, not
| even at the local tip.
|
|Really? I thought they were obliged to.

In Germany perhaps.
The information on the packaging is abut the EU facilities, mostly Germany.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

The message .com
from contains these words:

Funny that. I recent bought a few from Morrisons. The only one used so
far has a delay in excess of 2 seconds before it shows any light at all.
By far the worst of all the low energy bulbs I have used since I
switched to low energy a decade or so ago.

A bad batch or bad leccy, perhaps ? I've not had any that have been
that sluggish, although to be fair my own reaction times may be so slow
as to render any delay unnoticeable...

I hope it is not a bad batch as the delay is long enough to be tiresome.
I must try one of the others sometime.

The delay is only when it is cold. Turn it off and on again almost
immediately then it responds promptly.

I have a memory like a sieve but I think I have only had 3 or 4 failures
so far. The failure the bulb in question replaced was a bit curious. It
faded badly and when I went to take it out I actually burnt my hand on
it so there must have been some sort of short.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
The message .com
from contains these words:

Funny that. I recent bought a few from Morrisons. The only one used so
far has a delay in excess of 2 seconds before it shows any light at all.
By far the worst of all the low energy bulbs I have used since I
switched to low energy a decade or so ago.

A bad batch or bad leccy, perhaps ? I've not had any that have been
that sluggish, although to be fair my own reaction times may be so slow
as to render any delay unnoticeable...

I hope it is not a bad batch as the delay is long enough to be tiresome.
I must try one of the others sometime.

I do not have any low energy bulbs in locations where I really need
immediate light, so it may be that I have simply not noticed. But I
have had earlier compact fluorescents which were tediously slow in
comparison (not to say dismal in light output), so I was a little
surprised at your experience.

It's only a shame that the areas of the house with the greatest
lighting demand have fittings which will only accept more standard
bulbs. Especially as the kids leave these on all the time...

--
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

Kev wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.
--

Just out of interest, how did you dispose of the old bulb as you aren't
supposed to bin them but there again I am hardly likely to all the way
to the dump with a broken low enegy bulb.

Kevin

well theres more mercury in my moth than in a few thousand CFL's.

Do you think they will need a permit to bury me?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
well theres more mercury in my moth than in a few thousand CFL's.
^^^^
Are your teeth a bit moth-eaten then?

Do you think they will need a permit to bury me?

No, but crematoria are starting to have to filter the mercury:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4160895.stm



--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

The message .com
from contains these words:

I do not have any low energy bulbs in locations where I really need
immediate light, so it may be that I have simply not noticed. But I
have had earlier compact fluorescents which were tediously slow in
comparison (not to say dismal in light output), so I was a little
surprised at your experience.

Some of my earlier ones definitely took several seconds (or possibly
even longer) to achieve full brightness but this Morrisons one is unique
in my experience in that it doesn't show the slightest glimmer
for at least 2 seconds.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

Do you think they will need a permit to bury me?

No, but they need one to cremate you.

Why on earth the put expensive filters on the exhaust instead of taking
the fillings out first is beyond me.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The message
from Guy King contains these words:

Do you think they will need a permit to bury me?

No, but they need one to cremate you.

Why on earth the put expensive filters on the exhaust instead of taking
the fillings out first is beyond me.

I dare say that they will claim respect for the dead but if they have to
take out pacemakers why not fillings as well?

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from Roger contains these words:

Why on earth the put expensive filters on the exhaust instead of taking
the fillings out first is beyond me.

I dare say that they will claim respect for the dead but if they have to
take out pacemakers why not fillings as well?

Quite so. Lots of things are done to prepare the dead for whatever
terminal rite they're off to - prising a few fillings out is nothing
compared to what the Leftpondians get up to.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On 2006-09-05 15:45:51 +0100, "Kev" said:


Dave Fawthrop wrote:


IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.
--

Just out of interest, how did you dispose of the old bulb as you aren't
supposed to bin them but there again I am hardly likely to all the way
to the dump with a broken low enegy bulb.

Kevin

Oh no you must, regardless of how much fuel is used. It's part of the
"eco" thing.

On 2006-09-05 17:59:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

Kev wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.
--

Just out of interest, how did you dispose of the old bulb as you aren't
supposed to bin them but there again I am hardly likely to all the way
to the dump with a broken low enegy bulb.

Kevin

well theres more mercury in my moth than in a few thousand CFL's.

Do you think they will need a permit to bury me?

You should get them replaced... it can make you go mad, you know....

Roger typed


The message
from Guy King contains these words:

Do you think they will need a permit to bury me?

No, but they need one to cremate you.

Why on earth the put expensive filters on the exhaust instead of taking
the fillings out first is beyond me.

I dare say that they will claim respect for the dead but if they have to
take out pacemakers why not fillings as well?

You can cover the pacemaker extraction site with a shroud.

I think some might be upset if undertakers started whipping out teeth.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On 5 Sep 2006 09:41:44 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

It's only a shame that the areas of the house with the greatest
lighting demand have fittings which will only accept more standard
bulbs. Especially as the kids leave these on all the time...

What sort of bulbs do these fittings take?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In message , Dave Fawthrop
writes
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 16:22:52 +0100, Guy King wrote:

|The message
|from Dave Fawthrop contains these words:
|
| Just binned it. Our local council does not provide special facilities, not
| even at the local tip.
|
|Really? I thought they were obliged to.

In Germany perhaps.
The information on the packaging is abut the EU facilities, mostly Germany.


AIUI, commercial places etc. are supposed to dispose of them properly,
but domestic users can just bin them.

F
--
Chris French

David Hansen wrote:
On 5 Sep 2006 09:41:44 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

It's only a shame that the areas of the house with the greatest
lighting demand have fittings which will only accept more standard
bulbs. Especially as the kids leave these on all the time...

What sort of bulbs do these fittings take?

Smaller reflectors or candle bulbs mostly. I think low-energy
reflectors don't come in small sizes and the candle equivalents won't
mount horizontally due to their weight or vertically without protruding
right out of the shade. Ok, the last complaint is aesthetic...

--
"Get behind early so you have plenty of time to catch up."

The message
from Helen Deborah Vecht contains these words:

I dare say that they will claim respect for the dead but if they have to
take out pacemakers why not fillings as well?

You can cover the pacemaker extraction site with a shroud.

I think some might be upset if undertakers started whipping out teeth.

Dentistry on the corpses that need it would be cheaper, even in the long
run, than filtering mercury out of incinerator smoke.

With mercury amalgam being phased out albeit slowly and people
increasing outliving their teeth it might even be a problem that will go
away shortly without any active intervention if the current proposals of
halving the mercury output are not changed.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
The message .com
from contains these words:

I do not have any low energy bulbs in locations where I really need
immediate light, so it may be that I have simply not noticed. But I
have had earlier compact fluorescents which were tediously slow in
comparison (not to say dismal in light output), so I was a little
surprised at your experience.

Some of my earlier ones definitely took several seconds (or possibly
even longer) to achieve full brightness but this Morrisons one is unique
in my experience in that it doesn't show the slightest glimmer
for at least 2 seconds.

It must be a bad 'un. I picked up a handful yesterday and tested each
one - all lit with no delay and the amount of brightening after a
couple of minutes was quite small. The ones I get are Philips
manufactured.

--
"Growing older is mandatory... growing up is optional!"

On 6 Sep 2006 01:15:42 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

What sort of bulbs do these fittings take?

Smaller reflectors

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/bro...=prods&PGID=56
too big?

or candle bulbs mostly.

http://www.greenshop.co.uk/acatalog/...ml&CatalogBody
(near the bottom) too big?

I think low-energy reflectors don't come in small sizes

See above.

and the candle equivalents won't mount horizontally due to their weight

Perhaps you are thinking of the old CFL bulbs with heavy glass
envelopes. Modern ones are very light and there is no problem
mounting them horizontally.

or vertically without protruding right out of the shade.

Have you been to a big red tin shed recently and looked at the size
of some of the modern bulbs?

Ok, the last complaint is aesthetic...

Does that matter if there is a shade?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 01:15:42 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

What sort of bulbs do these fittings take?

Smaller reflectors

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/bro...=prods&PGID=56
too big?

Thanks for the link. I hadn't realised they were down to the R63 size,
although if those are appreciably longer than a standard reflector they
are going to look pretty naff in flush-mounted ceiling fittings.

or candle bulbs mostly.
http://www.greenshop.co.uk/acatalog/...ml&CatalogBody
(near the bottom) too big ?

Too ugly more like ;-)

I think low-energy reflectors don't come in small sizes

See above.

and the candle equivalents won't mount horizontally due to their weight

Perhaps you are thinking of the old CFL bulbs with heavy glass
envelopes. Modern ones are very light and there is no problem
mounting them horizontally.

Ok.

or vertically without protruding right out of the shade.

Have you been to a big red tin shed recently and looked at the size
of some of the modern bulbs?

Probably only a big yellow and black supermarket. I'm wary of web
suppliers who only show hands holding examples and don't quote sizes.

Ok, the last complaint is aesthetic...

Does that matter if there is a shade?

It does if the bulb protrudes in a non-pleasing fashion. In fact, it's
worse if there is a shade in that respect.

Thanks for the links. I also encountered
http://www.yourwelcome.co.uk/acatalo...ightbulbs.html
whose prices are a little better for some sizes. I baulk at paying
more than a fiver.

--
"I can walk on water, but I stagger on alcohol."

On 6 Sep 2006 10:50:43 GMT, Huge wrote:

Don't forget you must wash out your empty cans and bottles with hot
water & detergent, too....

I do. *BUT* it's the same hot water and detergent that has just washed
the dishes. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The message
from Huge contains these words:

Don't forget you must wash out your empty cans and bottles with hot
water & detergent, too....

While discussing re-cycling plastic bottles, an old bat living round
here claimed that there's no problem with the bulk of them if you boil
them till they're floppy then you can squash them down easily.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

chris French wrote:
In message , Dave Fawthrop
writes
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 16:22:52 +0100, Guy King wrote:

|The message
|from Dave Fawthrop contains these words:
|
| Just binned it. Our local council does not provide special facilities, not
| even at the local tip.
|
|Really? I thought they were obliged to.

In Germany perhaps.
The information on the packaging is abut the EU facilities, mostly Germany.


AIUI, commercial places etc. are supposed to dispose of them properly,
but domestic users can just bin them.

F
--
Chris French

My council is supposed to have facilities for tubes but I have never
been to the dump to check out what they say. I tend to put stuff in the
bin otherwise it is kicking about the front garden for months waiting
for enough to get rid of to justify the trip to the dump.

Kevin

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 12:49:55 +0100, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from Huge contains these words:

Don't forget you must wash out your empty cans and bottles with hot
water & detergent, too....

While discussing re-cycling plastic bottles, an old bat living round
here claimed that there's no problem with the bulk of them if you boil
them till they're floppy then you can squash them down easily.

Hubble bubble toil and trouble!

Eye of newt and HDPE bottle!

Hmmm... doesn't have the same ring to it does it.

Neverless a dash of boiling water from the bottom of the kettle will
do the same thing, no need to get the cauldron out.

cheers,
Pete.

In message , Huge
writes
On 2006-09-05, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-09-05 15:45:51 +0100, "Kev" said:

Just out of interest, how did you dispose of the old bulb as you aren't
supposed to bin them but there again I am hardly likely to all the way
to the dump with a broken low enegy bulb.

Kevin

Oh no you must, regardless of how much fuel is used. It's part of the
"eco" thing.

*applause* And I thought it was just me.

Don't forget you must wash out your empty cans and bottles with hot
water & detergent, too....


I remember seeing a prog about recycling, there was a woman who did just
that, including delabelling and thoroughly scrubbing all the pet food
tins in copious hot water and detergent, then they followed the green
waste to its final destination in land fill.

Surely if we're recycling to be green it makes no sense to ask
householders to waste water and energy cleaning stuff, it must be much
better environmentally to wash them in some efficient industrial washer.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

In message . com,
writes
David Hansen wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 01:15:42 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

What sort of bulbs do these fittings take?

or candle bulbs mostly.

and the candle equivalents won't mount horizontally due to their weight

Perhaps you are thinking of the old CFL bulbs with heavy glass
envelopes. Modern ones are very light and there is no problem
mounting them horizontally.

Ok.

or vertically without protruding right out of the shade.

Have you been to a big red tin shed recently and looked at the size
of some of the modern bulbs?

Probably only a big yellow and black supermarket. I'm wary of web
suppliers who only show hands holding examples and don't quote sizes.

I have some CFL candle bulbs, while sizzes have got smaller recently
they are still longer, and a bit fatter than an incandescent candle bulb
(but not an issue in their location

There are a number of web suppliers who quote sizes.
--
Chris French

Huge wrote:
On 2006-09-06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On 6 Sep 2006 10:50:43 GMT, Huge wrote:


Don't forget you must wash out your empty cans and bottles with hot
water & detergent, too....

I do. *BUT* it's the same hot water and detergent that has just washed
the dishes. B-)


Yes, but you're sensible.

You can often get a tin or 2 in a "full" dishwasher.

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

Pete C wrote:

Hubble bubble toil and trouble!

Eye of newt and HDPE bottle!

I thought we were all supposed to use synthetic eye of newt (E597)
these days. Can't be green AND threaten an endangered species you
know.

John
--
John White,
Electrical Contractor

On 2006-09-06 11:50:43 +0100, Huge said:

On 2006-09-05, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-09-05 15:45:51 +0100, "Kev" said:


Dave Fawthrop wrote:


IME they do not fail at all, well *very* rarely. After running the whole
house on low energy bulbs except for a few long flourescents, for mumble
years I have last week had my first failure, a 23 watt bulb at the top of
the stairs, it just stopped working. Highly chuffed with the long life
of these lamps, IME well in excess of the advertised 10,000 hours.
--

Just out of interest, how did you dispose of the old bulb as you aren't
supposed to bin them but there again I am hardly likely to all the way
to the dump with a broken low enegy bulb.

Kevin

Oh no you must, regardless of how much fuel is used. It's part of the
"eco" thing.

*applause* And I thought it was just me.

Don't forget you must wash out your empty cans and bottles with hot
water & detergent, too....

No it isn't

I don't mind doing reasonably eco things. However, I draw the line at
those that

- Are political correctness for the sake of it.

- Are unsound and obviously so,

- Cost a lot of time to do. If it's that important then the council
should deal with it - I pay them a lot of money to do so.