On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:14:03 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:19:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Is there any difference between different pipe cutters? There seems
to be quite a range of prices for them

I bought the el cheapo Silverline jobby - only one my local shop had, about
a £5. Seemed fine on the 15mm pipe, but it goes up to 41mm aledgedly. I
tried it on some solvent weld 40 odd mm pipe and it failed miserably - the
ratchet wouldn't engage.

Maybe a better one would cut bigger pipe as well?

IME for waste pipe a hand saw is *much* better, use a mitre box if
worried about squareness. Give it a try on an offcut...

cheers,
Pete.

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Some of the things they suggest and
people take as correct and go off and do is amazing.

You mean like wrapping olives in ptfe tape?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"John Rumm" aka Essex Chav wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Do they? You had better show us, because there is no mention of it he

http://www.johnguest.com/catalogues/...tproductPG.pdf

there is more than one toy pipe maker around.

Indeed, if you look at

http://www.hepworthplumbing.co.uk/He...ller_Guide.pdf

Right after they say "Cut the Hep2O pipe with the recommended cutters"
(page 34)

Chav, what cutters do they recommend? Someone is after a pair on this
thread.

They say apply PTFE if required for lubrication.

Got it. Nice Chav. Marley say the same.

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...
Well as you know sweet FA about them, take notice of a pro. Better still
for amateur prats like you with an attiude, you should ignore what I said
and fit pushfit and have leaks. Be my guest.

I posted here for advice because I freely admit to having no knowledge
beyond copper / solder /compression.
That is the precise reason for posting.

Now you are telling the likes of me what to do. Tell the uk.d-i-y Lunatic
Association by all means.

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Flags:

Is this some kind of bot pretending to be Dr Driven or is it the real McCoy?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Some of the things they suggest and
people take as correct and go off and do is amazing.

You mean like wrapping olives in ptfe tape?

That is what the plastic makers say. I'm sure if the uk.d-i-y Lunatic
Association suggest that. They would suggest hitting it with a hammer.

Some of the things they suggest and
people take as correct and go off and do is amazing.

You mean like wrapping olives in ptfe tape?




Well, far be it from me to defend Drivel ( phd ); I must confess to
sometimes loosing my cool with old compression fittings and resorting to a
few wraps of PTFE tape on the olive.

New fittings and olives always seem to work first time, but re-used fittings
and nuts ( cleaned up as much as is possible) can be a pain.

As can be using a new fitting ( like a gate valve ) in between 2 pipe ends
with old olives which you want to re-use, rather than cut back, and have to
extend the pipework to make good the missing length.

You know, you start off with the mantra: " don't over tighten it. Just a wee
nip up is enough."
Then it needs a bit more.
Then a bit more.
And still there's a weep.
And so you end up raxing the thing up with all your might, and still it
weeps.

Then it's time to screw the textbook and use some PTFE tape on the bloody
olive.

Yes, I know it's not strictly best practice, but sometimes needs must...

--
Ron

I posted here for advice because I freely admit to having no knowledge
beyond copper / solder /compression.
That is the precise reason for posting.

Now you are telling the likes of me what to do. Tell the uk.d-i-y Lunatic
Association by all means.



For the audience, would you please point out ***exactly*** where I have
"told the likes of you what to do".
( tempting as it may be. )

A quote from any of my posts will be fine.

--
Ron

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:17:29 +0100, "Ron Lowe"
wrote:

For the audience, would you please point out ***exactly*** where I have
"told the likes of you what to do".
( tempting as it may be. )

A quote from any of my posts will be fine.

He probably thinks you're Andy. He seems to have something of a blind
spot there, which is why he keeps calling him Matt.

Don't worry about Dr Drivel, where plastic pipework is concerned the
situation is basically :-

Dr Drivel + his imaginary friends - thinks plastic pipework is no
good, based, it appears, on one incident when he didn't follow the
manufacturers instructions and got a failure (google for drivel and
hacksaw if you're interested)

and

The rest of the world - thinks plastic pipework is pretty much OK

Happy plumbing,

John

Don't worry about Dr Drivel, where plastic pipework is concerned the
situation is basically :-


I've read all about the history :-)
I have no problems with someone having a counter argument, or alternative
point of view.
That's what I expect in newsgroups.

I simply objected to:

1) Being told:

"you should ignore what I said and fit
pushfit and have leaks. Be my guest."

when I have said I want to use COMPRESSION fittings, not pushfit;

and:

2) Being accused of:

"telling the likes of me what to do"

when I have never told *anyone* what to do.


--
Ron

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:51:00 +0100, "Ron Lowe"
wrote:

I want to know how to select the correct inserts to use with plastic pipe
for COMPRESSION fittings.

I'd use 'Cuprofit' ones as they're made of copper and should withstand
any crushing force from the olive better.

Also use a copper olive so less force is needed to get a seal between
olive and fitting.

Should be well worth doing a couple of sample joints to see how much
the pipe is cut into by the olive, if too much it might rupture and
come out of the fitting.

Finally I'd use some 'Fernox LS=X' or similar on the olive as a belt
and braces measure.

Worth looking at the forum on Screwfix as this has been discussed and
a lot of tradespeople are there.

All IMHO,

cheers,
Pete.

"John Anderton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:17:29 +0100, "Ron Lowe"
wrote:

For the audience, would you please point out ***exactly*** where I have
"told the likes of you what to do".
( tempting as it may be. )

A quote from any of my posts will be fine.

He probably thinks you're Andy. He seems to have something of a blind
spot there, which is why he keeps calling him Matt.

Don't worry about Dr Drivel, where plastic pipework is concerned the
situation is basically :-

Dr Drivel + his imaginary friends - thinks plastic pipework is no
good, based, it appears, on one incident when he didn't follow the
manufacturers instructions and got a failure (google for drivel and
hacksaw if you're interested)

You are a stupid amateur knobhead. The pushfit fitting failed knobhead!

The rest of the world - thinks plastic pipework is pretty much OK

It is except the pushfit fittings. Please use pushfit fittings Please do.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:50:11 +0100, Ron Lowe wrote:

I simply objected to:

It's Drivel. He's a serial fantasist. He has no life, he's the snake oil
salesman's dream because he believes any old crap that he reads in
brochures. He's also incompetent, pretends to know something anything,
about plumbing then spends ages sticking his foot in it proving that he
knows squat.

Best ignored apart from the pleasure of taking the **** out of him.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:15:23 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

I am the pro

Yes, he hangs around the docks and blows sailors for a fiver.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:05:18 +0100, Guy King wrote:

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Flags:

Is this some kind of bot pretending to be Dr Driven or is it the real McCoy?

It's stupid, irrelevant and unable to cope with being a loser. It's Drivel.

In article ,
Pete C wrote:
I bought the el cheapo Silverline jobby - only one my local shop had,
about a £5. Seemed fine on the 15mm pipe, but it goes up to 41mm
aledgedly. I tried it on some solvent weld 40 odd mm pipe and it
failed miserably - the ratchet wouldn't engage.

Maybe a better one would cut bigger pipe as well?

IME for waste pipe a hand saw is *much* better, use a mitre box if
worried about squareness. Give it a try on an offcut...

With solvent weld you can cut it with near anything since the solvent will
dissolve any raggedness round the cut. Not so with push fit as dribble
found out because it's all too easy to damage the O ring.

--
*I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

John Anderton wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:17:29 +0100, "Ron Lowe"
wrote:

For the audience, would you please point out ***exactly*** where I have
"told the likes of you what to do".
( tempting as it may be. )

A quote from any of my posts will be fine.

He probably thinks you're Andy. He seems to have something of a blind
spot there, which is why he keeps calling him Matt.

Don't worry about Dr Drivel, where plastic pipework is concerned the
situation is basically :-

Dr Drivel + his imaginary friends - thinks plastic pipework is no
good, based, it appears, on one incident when he didn't follow the
manufacturers instructions and got a failure (google for drivel and
hacksaw if you're interested)

and

The rest of the world - thinks plastic pipework is pretty much OK

The rest of the world does not think that at all. Look at the Screwfix
plumbers forum. The consensus there by the hard nosed professionals is
that push-fit is big trouble. Many there say only use compression
joints with olives on plastic pipe after bitter experience of leaks.
Most rural based plumbers avoid it because of rodents eating it in
lofts. There are many horror stories on that forum if you do a search.

I used to use push-fit fittings, now I use compression after reading
the stories over there, and some on this group. I have used push-fit
and have had the odd leak which was fixed quickly with no damage.
Initially many years ago when I started up, I used a hacksaw with the
plastic pipe in a mitre block and finished with a file and Stanley
knife, using grease on the pipe before pushing on. I never had a leak,
only when I used a pipe cutter did I have a leak and I think the
problem was the fittings, or O rings, rather than the cut. I noticed
most cutters leave a small nick anyway and I always filed that off.
That doesn't matter now as I use olive compression joints.

I use compression joints on plastic pipe as I don't want ceilings
coming down, or leaks of any sort, as that would set me back big time
after I am finished. I gather plumbers don't want comebacks, so go
for reliable methods, which is the sensible way in business. Apart from
threading pipe in confined spaces getting me out of trouble, generally,
I don't find plastic pipe quicker to install. Plumbers are not anti
plastic pipes as they use them on drains.

Happy plumbing,

John

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message .. .
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:50:11 +0100, Ron Lowe wrote:

I simply objected to:

It's Drivel.

Flags:
Note the white bar on this flag.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9093895?query=%22Latvia%20flag%22&ct=

Flags.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Pete C wrote:
I bought the el cheapo Silverline jobby - only one my local shop had,
about a £5. Seemed fine on the 15mm pipe, but it goes up to 41mm
aledgedly. I tried it on some solvent weld 40 odd mm pipe and it
failed miserably - the ratchet wouldn't engage.

Maybe a better one would cut bigger pipe as well?

IME for waste pipe a hand saw is *much* better, use a mitre box if
worried about squareness. Give it a try on an offcut...

With solvent weld you can cut it with near anything since the solvent will
dissolve any raggedness round the cut.

Richard Cranium here is at it again. He would leave burred edges on the
inside of drain pipe. Can you image? They must have let them stay up late
to watch the world cup.

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message .. .
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:15:23 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

I am the pro

Yes,

Thank you.

Flags:
Note the white band at the top.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9093942?query=%22Russia%20flag%22&ct=

Flags.

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:05:18 +0100, Guy King wrote:

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Flags:

Is this some kind of bot pretending to be Dr Driven or is it the real
McCoy?

It's

Flags:
Note the red band at the bottom:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9093955?query=%22slovakia%20flag%22&ct=

Flags.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:14:03 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:19:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Is there any difference between different pipe cutters? There seems
to be quite a range of prices for them

I bought the el cheapo Silverline jobby - only one my local shop had, about
a £5. Seemed fine on the 15mm pipe, but it goes up to 41mm aledgedly. I
tried it on some solvent weld 40 odd mm pipe and it failed miserably - the
ratchet wouldn't engage.

Maybe a better one would cut bigger pipe as well?

I bought this one from Screwfix and unless there is a knack to it then I am not
impressed .It is difficult to get the ratchet to enagage without fiddling around
with the tool.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...58 3&ts=69052

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:00:04 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message .. .
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:50:11 +0100, Ron Lowe wrote:

I simply objected to:

It's Drivel.

Flags:

Aww look wickle Drivel still thinks that failing to quote a post somehow
erases it. Bless.

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:14:03 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:19:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Is there any difference between different pipe cutters? There seems
to be quite a range of prices for them

I bought the el cheapo Silverline jobby - only one my local shop had,
about
a £5. Seemed fine on the 15mm pipe, but it goes up to 41mm aledgedly. I
tried it on some solvent weld 40 odd mm pipe and it failed miserably - the
ratchet wouldn't engage.

Maybe a better one would cut bigger pipe as well?

I bought this one from Screwfix and unless there is a knack to it then I
am not
impressed .It is difficult to get the ratchet to enagage without fiddling
around
with the tool.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...58 3&ts=69052

Made by Monument as well. That is crap. I know a few who have sent them
back.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:04:52 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message .. .
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:15:23 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

I am the pro

Yes,

Thank you.

I'm only too happy to portray your drivelling stupidity to the world.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:07:05 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:05:18 +0100, Guy King wrote:

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Flags:

Is this some kind of bot pretending to be Dr Driven or is it the real
McCoy?

It's

Flags:

Sad, very.

In message , Ron Lowe
writes
I posted here for advice because I freely admit to having no knowledge
beyond copper / solder /compression.
That is the precise reason for posting.

Now you are telling the likes of me what to do. Tell the uk.d-i-y Lunatic
Association by all means.



For the audience, would you please point out ***exactly*** where I have
"told the likes of you what to do".
( tempting as it may be. )

A quote from any of my posts will be fine.

Sorry Ron

He's our troll

We feed him from time to time but he escapes sometimes

please accept our apologies, sometimes he lies to the nurse when he says
he's taken his tablets


--
geoff

In message , Ron Lowe
writes
Don't worry about Dr Drivel, where plastic pipework is concerned the
situation is basically :-


I've read all about the history :-)
I have no problems with someone having a counter argument, or alternative
point of view.
That's what I expect in newsgroups.

I simply objected to:

1) Being told:

....

Stop being so girlie

understand the nature of newsgroups

.... and ignore drivel

--
geoff

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes
Dr Drivel + his imaginary friends - thinks plastic pipework is no
good, based, it appears, on one incident when he didn't follow the
manufacturers instructions and got a failure (google for drivel and
hacksaw if you're interested)

You are a stupid amateur knobhead. The pushfit fitting failed knobhead!

The rest of the world - thinks plastic pipework is pretty much OK

It is except the pushfit fittings. Please use pushfit fittings Please do.

You and your hacksaw ****ed it

end of story


--
geoff

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message .. .
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:00:04 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message .. .
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:50:11 +0100, Ron Lowe wrote:

I simply objected to:

It's Drivel.

Flags:

Aww

Flags:
Notice the yellow vand at the top of this flag:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9093901?query=%22Lithuania%20flag%22&ct=

Flags.

"raden" wrote in message
news
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes
Dr Drivel + his imaginary friends - thinks plastic pipework is no
good, based, it appears, on one incident when he didn't follow the
manufacturers instructions and got a failure (google for drivel and
hacksaw if you're interested)

You are a stupid amateur knobhead. The pushfit fitting failed knobhead!

The rest of the world - thinks plastic pipework is pretty much OK

It is except the pushfit fittings. Please use pushfit fittings Please do.

You and your hacksaw ****ed it

Maxie, my hacksaw could **** many things. Now, what do you do with your
hacksaw when up the tree in a frock?

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Ron Lowe
writes
I posted here for advice because I freely admit to having no knowledge
beyond copper / solder /compression.
That is the precise reason for posting.

Now you are telling the likes of me what to do. Tell the uk.d-i-y
Lunatic
Association by all means.



For the audience, would you please point out ***exactly*** where I have
"told the likes of you what to do".
( tempting as it may be. )

A quote from any of my posts will be fine.

Sorry Ron

He's our troll

Maxie, how is chiffon frock getting on?

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:04:52 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message .. .
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:15:23 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

I am the pro

Yes,

Thank you.

I'm only

Flags:
Note the white band at the top.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9093942?query=%22Russia%20flag%22&ct=

Flags.

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:07:05 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:05:18 +0100, Guy King wrote:

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Flags:

Is this some kind of bot pretending to be Dr Driven or is it the real
McCoy?

It's

Flags:

Sad,

Flags:
Note the red band at the bottom:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9093955?query=%22slovakia%20flag%22&ct=

Flags

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
IME for waste pipe a hand saw is *much* better, use a mitre box if
worried about squareness. Give it a try on an offcut...

With solvent weld you can cut it with near anything since the solvent will
dissolve any raggedness round the cut.

Richard Cranium here is at it again. He would leave burred edges on the
inside of drain pipe.

Oh, *I* wouldn't. I do things properly. Just giving advice for bodgers
such as you who don't invest in the proper tools or have basic skills.
My joints never leak no matter what type of pipe I use.

Can you image? They must have let them stay up late
to watch the world cup.

Why would anyone want to look at a container?

--
*If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through ahaze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
IME for waste pipe a hand saw is *much* better, use a mitre box if
worried about squareness. Give it a try on an offcut...

With solvent weld you can cut it with near anything since the solvent
will
dissolve any raggedness round the cut.

Richard Cranium here is at it again.
He would leave burred edges on the
inside of drain pipe.

Oh, *I* wouldn't. I do things properly.

Richard, you can't do things properly. That is a known fact.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Oh, *I* wouldn't. I do things properly.

Richard, you can't do things properly. That is a known fact.

But the world knows you cut plastic pipe with a hacksaw and the joint
leaked. Only someone with no skills would do this and ponder why...

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through ahaze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Oh, *I* wouldn't. I do things properly.

Richard, you can't do things properly. That is a known fact.

But

It must be cocoa time for him by now.

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've done all my previous plumbing work in copper, and I'm perfectly happy
using end-feed, yorkshire and compression fittings.

But I'm a n00b with plastic pipe.
My basic understanding is this: It shoves as-is directly into push-fit
fittings, where an o-ring in the fitting provides the seal.
But you need an insert for use in compression fittings, to prevent the
pipe collapsing under the olive.
Is that basically correct?

I have some old recovered plastic pipe here, which I'd like to re-use.
It is marked "Hepworth BS7291/2 class S 15 x 2 mm H+C services and
Central Heating 12 bar/20c 7bar/82c" and has metal inserts on some of the
ends which went into copper compression fittings. These are plain
inserts with no o-rings or anything. The olives are still there, and I
guess I can probably cut the olives off and re-use the metal inserts.

Is all flexible plastic pipe basically the same, or are there different
'systems' which require matching fittings and inserts etc? Or is it just
the fittings which come in different 'systems', and each family of
fittings has it's matching inserts?

I'm a little confused about the different systems which I can find, for
example on Screwfix.
There's stuff called 'Pushfit', and 'Speedfit'. Presumably 'Speedfit' is
a brand name, and Pushfit' is just a generic term?

I see plastic pipe like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...15944&id=11027
It looks a lot like what I have here.
It says to use speedfit inserts.
Presumably only for compression fittings? Or perhaps for all fittings?
Or just for speedfit fittings?

The inserts are he
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...26homeRef%3 D

But they have o-rings on them! What's that all about?
That suggests these inserts form a part of the sealing mechanism, and are
not just to prevent the pipe crushing in a compression fitting. So these
don't look like the right part to go into a compression fitting. I can't
imagine what they are for at all. Surely in a pushfit fitting, the o-ring
is part of the fitting, not part of the pipe insert? They don't look to
be strong enough to take the squeeze of a compression olive.

It seems to me I'd want plain metal inserts like I have to go into a
compression fitting. But I don't see those on the 'Push-fit fittings'
page at screwfix.

Looking at copper push-fit systems, I see the cuprofit ( presumably hep2o
is similar? ) require inserts in plastic pipe, even in a non-compression
fitting. These are marked 'only for use with cuprofit fittings', so I
guess they are also not the correct thing to use for a compression
fitting?

So what's the compatability story here with plastic plumbing?
What inserts do you use with what pipe and what fittings?
Specifically, what inserts do I need for fitting this pipe into a
compression fitting?


--
Ron




When joining spedfit to compression fittings. use same brand pipe insert.
No need to tighten fitting as much as for copper to copper,
just a half a turn beyond hand tightening...worked for me.

Arthur

Stuart wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:14:03 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I bought the el cheapo Silverline jobby - only one my local shop
had, about a £5. Seemed fine on the 15mm pipe, but it goes up to
41mm aledgedly. I tried it on some solvent weld 40 odd mm pipe and
it failed miserably - the ratchet wouldn't engage.

Maybe a better one would cut bigger pipe as well?

I bought this one from Screwfix and unless there is a knack to it
then I am not impressed .It is difficult to get the ratchet to
enagage without fiddling around with the tool.

Mine was part number MS137
http://www.silverlinetools.com/index.html?code=MS137

Same problem. OK with 15mm, no chance on 40mm solvent weld.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257