As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD sells them?

You don't say where you are at. The local code can be different than the
national code.
In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing.

I can't recite chapter and verse and I don't have a NPC book (builder not a
plumber), but I can tell you what I think I know:
The inspector has the authority to interpret the code as he sees fit.
What the old inspector allowed is irrelevant. There is a new sheriff in
town.
When you change one thing it opens you up to changing everything to meet the
code currently in force.
Every house must have one 3" vent through the roof.
Toilets are always vented down stream. You don't vent on the upstream side.

You should check to see if there is a NPC on the net. We'll see if any
plumbers come along and can recite chapter and verse. Have you thought about
talking with a pro?

"Sasha" wrote in message
oups.com...
As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD sells them?

What BP says about inspectors and interpretation of code is true in my
experience.
Codes change.
Inspectors change.
Interpretations change.
Resitance is futile.
TB

Sasha wrote:
As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD sells them?

Calling an inspector on some of his decisions can cause problems, make
him lose face and create an enemy which would affect any future
projects. You're the only one that can determine if fighting city
hall, and still potentially losing the battle, makes sense.

Inspectors have agendas, same as anyone else. He might be of the
opinion that it is his duty to take any opportunity to bring the house
closer to being in complaince with the current code. You didn't
mention when exactly you did that basement project, but the new
International Residential Code came out only a couple years ago. Your
township may have adopted it, adopted it with modifications or come up
with one of their own.

Some inspectors hate dealing with homeowners. They feel it's not their
job to teach plumbing/construction to someone who, in their opinion,
knows nothing and is a pain in the ass. If you're run into one of
those, lotsa luck!

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb, just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

R

On 1-Jul-2005, "RicodJour" wrote:

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb, just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

I built a deck at my old house. Replaced this awful concrete patio and iron
railing (complete w/hardware cloth at the top...) that ran right up to about
1 inch from the property line. Setback in Montgomery County was, not
remembering exactly now, 18 inches I think. Doesn't matter exactly. I
accounted for this in the design of the deck but neglected the 3/4 inch
redwood skirting. Thus I was about 1/2 inch in violation of code.

Inspector called me on it. I was polite and asked for suggestions as to
what to do as I felt it was a bit unreasonable to require me to tear down
the deck for 1/2 inch, especially when it was so much closer to compliance
than what was replaced. He didn't really have any suggestions as there
weren't any to be made, except for perhaps lose the skirting. The neighbor
certainly didn't care about the 1/2 inch and was delighted that the old
gulag had been torn down and replaced with a nice deck.

There was an awkward silence for a bit and I got the impression he was
waiting for something. Then he said, ok, fine I'll pass it.

I asked a few folks later, 2 who worked for the county attorney's office,
and one who was a contractor and they were all of the opinion that what that
guy was waiting for in that pause was an offer of a bribe. I have no
evidence that's what he wanted, just the 3 opinions.

Not sure what my point is w/regard to the original post just agreeing
w/RicodJour that inspectors can have all sorts of agendas.

ml

Ignoramus9053 wrote:



I never gave a bribe to any official, not even when I lived in Russia,
mostly because there was not a chance/need to do it.

WFC's?


I am curious though, how often, practically speaking, are bribes
given/offered here.


According to the latest statistics, every 2.6 seconds there's a bribe
taken by a low level official in this country. It's called taxes you moron.



If I offer a bribe to a low level official, or a
cop, can I go to prison for it, in reality?

You should go to prison for stupidity, but unlike your mutha' country
some here in this one take pity on dummies. That's called social services.

Sounds like a police state. I think I'm pleased to live in the UK where you
can do just about anything with your own plumbing. Apart from underground
stuff that is.

"Sasha" wrote in message
oups.com...
As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on
the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty
confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing
project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including
underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility
sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that
I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my
township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my
work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I
thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it
vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my
house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it
states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry
went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is
no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to
connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I
used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also
cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD
sells them?

Thats why about half the residential remodel woik gets
done sans permit...that is the home owner opts to just hope
the city's roving inspectors dont have x-ray eyes to look
through the walls and see that (gasp)...you are doing some
work.

wrote in message
...

On 1-Jul-2005, "RicodJour"
wrote:

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but
isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where
exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco
couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing
inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule
him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor
stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb,
just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

I built a deck at my old house. Replaced this awful
concrete patio and iron
railing (complete w/hardware cloth at the top...) that ran
right up to about
1 inch from the property line. Setback in Montgomery County
was, not
remembering exactly now, 18 inches I think. Doesn't matter
exactly. I
accounted for this in the design of the deck but neglected
the 3/4 inch
redwood skirting. Thus I was about 1/2 inch in violation of
code.

Inspector called me on it. I was polite and asked for
suggestions as to
what to do as I felt it was a bit unreasonable to require me
to tear down
the deck for 1/2 inch, especially when it was so much closer
to compliance
than what was replaced. He didn't really have any
suggestions as there
weren't any to be made, except for perhaps lose the
skirting. The neighbor
certainly didn't care about the 1/2 inch and was delighted
that the old
gulag had been torn down and replaced with a nice deck.

There was an awkward silence for a bit and I got the
impression he was
waiting for something. Then he said, ok, fine I'll pass it.

I asked a few folks later, 2 who worked for the county
attorney's office,
and one who was a contractor and they were all of the
opinion that what that
guy was waiting for in that pause was an offer of a bribe.
I have no
evidence that's what he wanted, just the 3 opinions.

Not sure what my point is w/regard to the original post just
agreeing
w/RicodJour that inspectors can have all sorts of agendas.

In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5 million
dollars each..


Phil Scott

ml

Phil Scott wrote:


In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5 million
dollars each..



Which headlines were those?

"Ignoramus9053" wrote in
message .. .
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 22:21:00 GMT,
wrote:
I asked a few folks later, 2 who worked for the county
attorney's office,
and one who was a contractor and they were all of the
opinion that what that
guy was waiting for in that pause was an offer of a bribe.
I have no
evidence that's what he wanted, just the 3 opinions.

I never gave a bribe to any official, not even when I lived
in Russia,
mostly because there was not a chance/need to do it.

I am curious though, how often, practically speaking, are
bribes
given/offered here. If I offer a bribe to a low level
official, or a
cop, can I go to prison for it, in reality?


I am extensively familar with the problem...its very very
common in the US particularly with state or federally funded
jobs..

In some industries in SF I have been asked to quote a $17,000
job (gross profit $3,000) at $40,000 then kick back 20k to
the manager in charge of the business.

Usually graft demand is for 10 to 20% of the total sale.

here is the results of a google search on the issue:
9,700 hits

When some states stopped graft and kickbacks in their states
highway construction programs costs typically dropped 50%..
that gives you a clue on how pervasive the problem is.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...if&btnG=Search

Its illegal in the US... but the money is too much for many in
management positions to resist.

in other countries its not illegal and businesses there can
write off the cost of paying bribes.

go see the movie "the corporation" you will find that both
funny, terrifying and informative.

Phil Scott

i

Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.

"Ignoramus9053" wrote in message
news:3vjxe.25471$D%
I am curious though, how often, practically speaking, are bribes
given/offered here. If I offer a bribe to a low level official, or a
cop, can I go to prison for it, in reality?

Yes, there are laws against it.

Some inspectors will accept a "tip" though. In a large city where I used
to live, my step father was a contractor. He always abided by the codes,
but he always left an envelope someplace in plain view. He'd step out of
the room and the envelope would disappear.

I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Ignoramus9053" wrote in message
news:3vjxe.25471$D%
I am curious though, how often, practically speaking, are bribes
given/offered here. If I offer a bribe to a low level official, or a
cop, can I go to prison for it, in reality?

Yes, there are laws against it.

Some inspectors will accept a "tip" though. In a large city where I used
to live, my step father was a contractor. He always abided by the codes,
but he always left an envelope someplace in plain view. He'd step out of
the room and the envelope would disappear.



When I was a child it was customary to tie a $20 bill to a trap if you
wanted to pass inspection.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

I was remodeling a home in Oakland, Ca and all the inspectors were very
helpful us. The plumbing inspector even came out to the house to show us how
he wanted us to run a waste line and connect to the sewer. The electrical
inspector was also helpful. We ran a new service and the weather head wasn't
high enough for city code, but it complied with the NEC. He asked if we were
given the city electrical code, we had not. He approved us and said, "For
future reference boy, it needs to be higher." I think Oakland wanted to
encourage home owners to maintain their property.
Ron


"Sasha" wrote in message
ups.com...
I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

In article ,
"Rusty" wrote:

Sounds like a police state. I think I'm pleased to live in the UK where you
can do just about anything with your own plumbing. Apart from underground
stuff that is.

I put in all my own plumbing and never had it inspected. Didn't get a
building permit for my house either.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

"Ron" wrote in message
m...
I was remodeling a home in Oakland, Ca and all the inspectors were very
helpful us. The plumbing inspector even came out to the house to show us
how
he wanted us to run a waste line and connect to the sewer. The electrical
inspector was also helpful. We ran a new service and the weather head
wasn't
high enough for city code, but it complied with the NEC. He asked if we
were
given the city electrical code, we had not. He approved us and said, "For
future reference boy, it needs to be higher." I think Oakland wanted to
encourage home owners to maintain their property.
Ron

Around here electrical may be done by anyone but must be inspected for
compliance. The inspector is a nice guy and helpful. As for plumbing, it's
required that a licensed plumber do the plumbing, however a homeowner may do
the work and the inspectors are willing to help the owner understand whay
has to be done. As for the OP saying that he did things one way last year
and it wasn't allowed this year; well that is most likely because the rules
changed. I know we had one inspector come in and cite the plumber for three
things wrong, but then the inspectors supervisor came in and said things
were ok since the rules had changed from the previous year.



"Sasha" wrote in message
ups.com...
I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

"Ignoramus9053" wrote in message
Some inspectors will accept a "tip" though. In a large city where I
used
to live, my step father was a contractor. He always abided by the codes,
but he always left an envelope someplace in plain view. He'd step out of
the room and the envelope would disappear.



How big were those tips?

This was the 1970's and depending on the size of the job, $10 to $20.

"Pat" wrote in message
...
Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.



I've heard other people say that a toilet must have a 2" vent. Can you
quote the UPC chapter and verse that says that? I was looking for the
reference.

"Sasha" wrote in message

When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules.

I blame the inspector. Sure, there are rules, but there are ways of
telling a person what has to be done and still maintain their professional
integrity. Most inspectors are decent people that just want to see the job
done right. There goal is to have safe buildings, not to bust your ass over
silly stuff. As in all walks of life, there is that 1% that is a real bozo.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Terry wrote:

"Pat" wrote in message
...

Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.




I've heard other people say that a toilet must have a 2" vent. Can you
quote the UPC chapter and verse that says that? I was looking for the
reference.


As stated, Codes vary, but one says in effect that there
shall be at least one vent terminal which is the same size
as the main stack. So the requirement for a 3" vent may
not be unreasonable.

Jim

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
Terry wrote:

"Pat" wrote in message
...

Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable
to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.




I've heard other people say that a toilet must have a 2" vent. Can you
quote the UPC chapter and verse that says that? I was looking for the
reference.


As stated, Codes vary, but one says in effect that there
shall be at least one vent terminal which is the same size
as the main stack. So the requirement for a 3" vent may
not be unreasonable.

Jim

Any house with over 20dfu will get a 3" main vent like you say. I have
always used 1 1/2" vents on WC with 3" main and 2" for 4" main. I just
thought maybe there was some clause somewhere that said that WC had to be
2" vent.

"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always fixed
my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will find
the wrong end of a gun!

EVEN in Massachusets! (though I doubt I will live there, too cold, but I do
like the Car Talk knuckleheads!)


cheers!

I cannot.

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
Phil Scott wrote:


In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5
million
dollars each..



Which headlines were those?

I didnt clip them and glue them to my forehead or anything.
It was all over the evenin' nooz in that time frame too.
Possibly you ain't payin' attention?

You might find it on a google news search with the key words
"San Francisco, Building, Inspector, permits, payoffs"


Phil Scott

Sasha writes:

He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

In many places the plumbing permitting and inspecting is run by the
plumbing trade itself in a confederacy with the local government, and has
the primary mission of forcing you to hire their overpriced and entry-
restricted tradesmen, which is partly kicked back to the local pols. If
you insist on doing work yourself on your own home (as is a codified right
in my state), you will, despite the legal entitlement, be subject to
various impediments, such as bureaucratic delays, excessive paperwork and
plans not required of the trade, and (as you seem to have discovered)
arbitrary and capricious inspections and interpretations of the so-called
and chimerical "code".

There is a bona fide purpose to building codes, but they are also in many
places tools for a kind of petty political/economic tyranny.

Hmmm. Odd. Only two newsgroups carrying this thread. Who left out
alt.conspiracy.theory...?

R

Phil Scott wrote:
"G Henslee" wrote in message
...

Phil Scott wrote:


In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5

million

dollars each..



Which headlines were those?


I didnt clip them and glue them to my forehead or anything.

Should have. Might have been an improvement.

It was all over the evenin' nooz in that time frame too.
Possibly you ain't payin' attention?



Possibly i ain't, but you brought it up as if you had the 6:00 news on
it... So put up or shut up.

wrote:




I have done a lot of plumbing. I have NEVER heard the terms WET VENT
and DRY VENT. What is he talking about?

You haven't done **** for plumbing if you don't even know what a wet
vent is.

FU Look it up.


I can not tell you about the number of vents, that depends on local
code. However, you might be able to "grandfather" in what you have.
Prove the former inspector passed it.

Like your mommy and grandfather did to produce you.


As for Fernco couplings, that again must be local code. I have used
them on all types of pipe and never heard a complaint.

You're clueless. Great help.

wrote in message
I have done a lot of plumbing. I have NEVER heard the terms WET VENT
and DRY VENT. What is he talking about?

The wet vent is the one roofers use when they have to pee

wrote in message
...
On 1 Jul 2005 12:28:51 -0700, "Sasha" wrote:

As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD sells them?


I have done a lot of plumbing. I have NEVER heard the terms WET VENT
and DRY VENT. What is he talking about?

Yes there are such terms. As I recall from my fading memory, a dry vent
goes straight to the outside, while a wet vent may be plumbed through
another drain.that has a dry vent.


I can not tell you about the number of vents, that depends on local
code. However, you might be able to "grandfather" in what you have.
Prove the former inspector passed it.

As for Fernco couplings, that again must be local code. I have used
them on all types of pipe and never heard a complaint.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 00:10:44 +0100, in alt.home.repair
Plumbing inspector nightmare "Rusty" wrote:

Sounds like a police state.

Yes, a lot of the U.S. is like that now.

About 20 years ago I moved from San Diego California to a rural area
in Alabama. We have no building code requirements outside the city
limits where I live. It's like I died and went to heaven.

I can build anything I want however I want. I love it! Nevertheless, I
do pretty much do all my work to codes whereever such codes are good
practice or safety related.

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On 1 Jul 2005 17:55:39 -0700, in alt.home.repair Plumbing
inspector nightmare "Sasha" wrote:

jI ust wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

You just answered your own question.

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On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 02:50:39 -0500, in alt.home.repair
Plumbing inspector nightmare Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Sasha writes:

He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

In many places the plumbing permitting and inspecting is run by the
plumbing trade itself in a confederacy with the local government, and has
the primary mission of forcing you to hire their overpriced and entry-
restricted tradesmen, which is partly kicked back to the local pols. If
you insist on doing work yourself on your own home (as is a codified right
in my state), you will, despite the legal entitlement, be subject to
various impediments, such as bureaucratic delays, excessive paperwork and
plans not required of the trade, and (as you seem to have discovered)
arbitrary and capricious inspections and interpretations of the so-called
and chimerical "code".

There is a bona fide purpose to building codes, but they are also in many
places tools for a kind of petty political/economic tyranny.

Well said and worth repeating.

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Vic Dura wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 00:10:44 +0100, in alt.home.repair
Plumbing inspector nightmare "Rusty" wrote:

Sounds like a police state.

Yes, a lot of the U.S. is like that now.

About 20 years ago I moved from San Diego California to a rural area
in Alabama. We have no building code requirements outside the city
limits where I live. It's like I died and went to heaven.

I can build anything I want however I want. I love it! Nevertheless, I
do pretty much do all my work to codes whereever such codes are good
practice or safety related.
...

OTOH, your neighbor can do the same...if he's as capable as you, that
can be ok...when it's the local county doofus or worse, everything
you've invested can be rendered nearly valueless...

While I fully understand the mentality and am glad we're outside the
city 3-mile radius, I'm certainly thankful that Dad was able while on
the City/County Planning Commission some 20-30 years ago to get
reasonable restrictions adopted in the county. Otherwise, it would be a
never-ending plile of trailers w/ open cess pools and worse...

"Vic Dura" wrote in message
...
On 1 Jul 2005 17:55:39 -0700, in alt.home.repair Plumbing
inspector nightmare "Sasha" wrote:

jI ust wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

As lo0ng as it's safely done I have no problem. But as I've seen here in
just the past two days it appears people don't know much. For instance,
wiring 240V o0utlet with seperate electrical runs. If you're house caught
fire and then caused mine to go up I'd be pretty ****ed.


You just answered your own question.

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On 2-Jul-2005, "FDR" wrote:

As lo0ng as it's safely done I have no problem. But as I've seen here in
just the past two days it appears people don't know much.

I guess one thing to keep in mind when DIYing, especially w/regard to
electrical, is the effect it will have on your home insurance.

ml

Sasha,

a new inspector in my township came to check my new kitchen and
upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to several problems

I guess I'm lucky. We built our own house last year (Washington State),
and did all the foundation, framing, plumbing, electrical, etc. ourselves.
We had at least 7-8 different inspectors over a 2 year period, and every
single one of them was pleasant to deal with, helpful when I had questions,
and usually commented on the excellent quality of our work. We'd call in an
inspection and they always showed up the next morning. We passed every
inspection without a single correction needed.

Our electrical inspector was a little apprehensive when he first showed up
and realized we did the wiring ourselves. But once he saw our work met or
exceeded all codes, he seemed very impressed and was more than happy to
approve our work.

The closest thing to a "hurdle" was the health department. They didn't
visit the site, but wanted me to draw up the plot plan in their office.
They seemed concerned about the proximity of our well and septic
system. Obviously my drawing was NOT to scale, we have more than the
minimum distances, and the system had been inspected and approved twice
already in the past several years. It only took a few minutes to straighten
out and wasn't a big deal, but that was the closest thing to a problem we
encountered.

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents.

Unless codes have changed, vent sizes ARE determined by fixture units, but
at least one 3" vent is required to reduce the change of frost/snow
closure.

In our house, I wanted to minimize the number of roof penetrations, so we
just have the single 3" roof vent (to match our 3" main drain). I ran 2"
vents from all fixtures in the house and tied them into the single roof
vent (with a 3" trunk line running through the attic). The inspector
approved it easily and said it was way more than I needed, but it
accomplished the single roof vent I wanted.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

Hmm, never heard that one before. Usually the concern is that the toilet is
placed too far from a vent, which could lead to siphon and drainage
problems. If I remember correctly, the toilet drain can run a maximum of 6'
before it is vented (2" minimum vents for toilets). My 3" toilet drains run
about 2 feet before a 2" vent heads off to the attic.

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited

I don't know your situation, but I'm not sure if they are allowed in
"concealed" locations? I could be wrong though, as they are the standard
way of connecting no-hub cast iron piping.

I used one in our attic to connect our 3" PVC plumbing with a 3" ABS
section to stick out the roof (didn't want a white pipe above the roof, and
didn't have the vertical room for male/female adapters). I also used a
couple in our crawlspace for our bathtubs and master shower, as it made
installation and future maintenance easier.

Good luck!

Anthony

On 2005-07-02, HerHusband wrote:

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited

I used one in our attic to connect our 3" PVC plumbing with a 3" ABS
section to stick out the roof (didn't want a white pipe above the roof, and
didn't have the vertical room for male/female adapters).

Did you paint the ABS pipe? My understanding is that plastic pipes
shouldn't be exposed outside. [Exception: those with UV inhibitors,
like (I think) grey electrical plastic conduit.] For this reason I
use a short length of copper DWV for any exterior vent.

To the OP, one thing my inspector told me was that rubber couplings
with two individual metal clamps separated by exposed rubber are only
approved for buried use. In exposed locations, indoors and out, the
rubber couplings should have a continuous metal shield for the full
length. Could this be what your inspector was complaining about?

Cheers, Wayne