As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD sells them?

You don't say where you are at. The local code can be different than the
national code.
In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing.

I can't recite chapter and verse and I don't have a NPC book (builder not a
plumber), but I can tell you what I think I know:
The inspector has the authority to interpret the code as he sees fit.
What the old inspector allowed is irrelevant. There is a new sheriff in
town.
When you change one thing it opens you up to changing everything to meet the
code currently in force.
Every house must have one 3" vent through the roof.
Toilets are always vented down stream. You don't vent on the upstream side.

You should check to see if there is a NPC on the net. We'll see if any
plumbers come along and can recite chapter and verse. Have you thought about
talking with a pro?

"Sasha" wrote in message
oups.com...
As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD sells them?

What BP says about inspectors and interpretation of code is true in my
experience.
Codes change.
Inspectors change.
Interpretations change.
Resitance is futile.
TB

Sasha wrote:
As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD sells them?

Calling an inspector on some of his decisions can cause problems, make
him lose face and create an enemy which would affect any future
projects. You're the only one that can determine if fighting city
hall, and still potentially losing the battle, makes sense.

Inspectors have agendas, same as anyone else. He might be of the
opinion that it is his duty to take any opportunity to bring the house
closer to being in complaince with the current code. You didn't
mention when exactly you did that basement project, but the new
International Residential Code came out only a couple years ago. Your
township may have adopted it, adopted it with modifications or come up
with one of their own.

Some inspectors hate dealing with homeowners. They feel it's not their
job to teach plumbing/construction to someone who, in their opinion,
knows nothing and is a pain in the ass. If you're run into one of
those, lotsa luck!

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb, just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

R

On 1-Jul-2005, "RicodJour" wrote:

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb, just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

I built a deck at my old house. Replaced this awful concrete patio and iron
railing (complete w/hardware cloth at the top...) that ran right up to about
1 inch from the property line. Setback in Montgomery County was, not
remembering exactly now, 18 inches I think. Doesn't matter exactly. I
accounted for this in the design of the deck but neglected the 3/4 inch
redwood skirting. Thus I was about 1/2 inch in violation of code.

Inspector called me on it. I was polite and asked for suggestions as to
what to do as I felt it was a bit unreasonable to require me to tear down
the deck for 1/2 inch, especially when it was so much closer to compliance
than what was replaced. He didn't really have any suggestions as there
weren't any to be made, except for perhaps lose the skirting. The neighbor
certainly didn't care about the 1/2 inch and was delighted that the old
gulag had been torn down and replaced with a nice deck.

There was an awkward silence for a bit and I got the impression he was
waiting for something. Then he said, ok, fine I'll pass it.

I asked a few folks later, 2 who worked for the county attorney's office,
and one who was a contractor and they were all of the opinion that what that
guy was waiting for in that pause was an offer of a bribe. I have no
evidence that's what he wanted, just the 3 opinions.

Not sure what my point is w/regard to the original post just agreeing
w/RicodJour that inspectors can have all sorts of agendas.

ml

wrote in message
...

On 1-Jul-2005, "RicodJour"
wrote:

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but
isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where
exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco
couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing
inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule
him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor
stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb,
just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

I built a deck at my old house. Replaced this awful
concrete patio and iron
railing (complete w/hardware cloth at the top...) that ran
right up to about
1 inch from the property line. Setback in Montgomery County
was, not
remembering exactly now, 18 inches I think. Doesn't matter
exactly. I
accounted for this in the design of the deck but neglected
the 3/4 inch
redwood skirting. Thus I was about 1/2 inch in violation of
code.

Inspector called me on it. I was polite and asked for
suggestions as to
what to do as I felt it was a bit unreasonable to require me
to tear down
the deck for 1/2 inch, especially when it was so much closer
to compliance
than what was replaced. He didn't really have any
suggestions as there
weren't any to be made, except for perhaps lose the
skirting. The neighbor
certainly didn't care about the 1/2 inch and was delighted
that the old
gulag had been torn down and replaced with a nice deck.

There was an awkward silence for a bit and I got the
impression he was
waiting for something. Then he said, ok, fine I'll pass it.

I asked a few folks later, 2 who worked for the county
attorney's office,
and one who was a contractor and they were all of the
opinion that what that
guy was waiting for in that pause was an offer of a bribe.
I have no
evidence that's what he wanted, just the 3 opinions.

Not sure what my point is w/regard to the original post just
agreeing
w/RicodJour that inspectors can have all sorts of agendas.

In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5 million
dollars each..


Phil Scott

ml

Phil Scott wrote:


In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5 million
dollars each..



Which headlines were those?

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
Phil Scott wrote:


In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5
million
dollars each..



Which headlines were those?

I didnt clip them and glue them to my forehead or anything.
It was all over the evenin' nooz in that time frame too.
Possibly you ain't payin' attention?

You might find it on a google news search with the key words
"San Francisco, Building, Inspector, permits, payoffs"


Phil Scott

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight.
If you've got homeowners/contractors trying to cut corners and violate the
codes then, and only then, do you have a situation where a bribe can fix the
situation. I have never had an issue with an inspector on site and have
never paid a bribe in 25 years, and I've done jobs in the Boston
neighborhoods too. It is my job to know at least as much about the current
codes as the inspector and I follow them closely or surpass them, so there
is very little to argue about. No opportunity, no problem.
But I did decide once to pay a neighborhood guy's 12 year old kid and a
couple of his friends $100 a week (1980's) to keep a watch out in order to
be sure nothing happened to my jobsite! (The old man collected the money)

wrote in message
...

On 1-Jul-2005, "RicodJour" wrote:

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb, just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

I built a deck at my old house. Replaced this awful concrete patio and
iron
railing (complete w/hardware cloth at the top...) that ran right up to
about
1 inch from the property line. Setback in Montgomery County was, not
remembering exactly now, 18 inches I think. Doesn't matter exactly. I
accounted for this in the design of the deck but neglected the 3/4 inch
redwood skirting. Thus I was about 1/2 inch in violation of code.

Inspector called me on it. I was polite and asked for suggestions as to
what to do as I felt it was a bit unreasonable to require me to tear down
the deck for 1/2 inch, especially when it was so much closer to compliance
than what was replaced. He didn't really have any suggestions as there
weren't any to be made, except for perhaps lose the skirting. The
neighbor
certainly didn't care about the 1/2 inch and was delighted that the old
gulag had been torn down and replaced with a nice deck.

There was an awkward silence for a bit and I got the impression he was
waiting for something. Then he said, ok, fine I'll pass it.

I asked a few folks later, 2 who worked for the county attorney's office,
and one who was a contractor and they were all of the opinion that what
that
guy was waiting for in that pause was an offer of a bribe. I have no
evidence that's what he wanted, just the 3 opinions.

Not sure what my point is w/regard to the original post just agreeing
w/RicodJour that inspectors can have all sorts of agendas.

ml

On 4-Jul-2005, "BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight. If you've got homeowners/contractors trying to cut corners and
violate the
codes then, and only then, do you have a situation where a bribe can fix
the situation.

There was no corner cutting or trying to violate code. I made a simple
mistake, neglecting the width of some decorative skirting I wasn't planning
on at the time I did the design. Ok, I guess I was trying to violate code
by having him approve the deck when it was in fact 1/2 inch too close to the
property line.

I see two acceptable outcomes to this. 1) The guy says yeah, you screwed
up, but it's not dangerous, and its barely noticeable so I'm going to let
you pass this time. 2) The guy says I'm sorry, you're in violation of code
and I can't allow this to pass.

Note that 3) You are in violation of code but for an undocumented fee of $20
I will allow this to pass

is not on the list.

ml

wrote in message
...

On 4-Jul-2005, "BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight. If you've got homeowners/contractors trying to cut corners and
violate the
codes then, and only then, do you have a situation where a bribe can fix
the situation.

There was no corner cutting or trying to violate code. I made a simple
mistake, neglecting the width of some decorative skirting I wasn't
planning
on at the time I did the design. Ok, I guess I was trying to violate code
by having him approve the deck when it was in fact 1/2 inch too close to
the
property line.

I see two acceptable outcomes to this. 1) The guy says yeah, you screwed
up, but it's not dangerous, and its barely noticeable so I'm going to let
you pass this time. 2) The guy says I'm sorry, you're in violation of
code
and I can't allow this to pass.

Note that 3) You are in violation of code but for an undocumented fee of
$20
I will allow this to pass

is not on the list.

ml

Yeah, sorry. I wasn't really talking about your case. I was commenting on
the more generalized discussion on making and taking bribes. In your case
any reasonable person would just let it go. What the inspector was probably
thinking as he stood there in silence was: Is this guy trying to pull
something over on me? Can someone sue the Town over this? Can someone sue ME
over this? Do I need this aggravation?

In article ,
"BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight.


I resent that. I've been in 4 bar fights just this week and I've never
been an asshole. I would have been in more but I've been kicked out of
every place in town.

;-)


--
-JR
Hung like Einstein and smart as a horse
Remove NO SPAM from e-mai address to reply

"JR-jred" wrote in message
news:1120560287.996524d11e02bfbb10bef37cad241612@t eranews...
In article ,
"BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a
bar
fight.


I resent that. I've been in 4 bar fights just this week and I've never
been an asshole. I would have been in more but I've been kicked out of
every place in town.

I'm too old. I just shoot them, then I fight them.



;-)


--
-JR
Hung like Einstein and smart as a horse
Remove NO SPAM from e-mai address to reply

I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

I was remodeling a home in Oakland, Ca and all the inspectors were very
helpful us. The plumbing inspector even came out to the house to show us how
he wanted us to run a waste line and connect to the sewer. The electrical
inspector was also helpful. We ran a new service and the weather head wasn't
high enough for city code, but it complied with the NEC. He asked if we were
given the city electrical code, we had not. He approved us and said, "For
future reference boy, it needs to be higher." I think Oakland wanted to
encourage home owners to maintain their property.
Ron


"Sasha" wrote in message
ups.com...
I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

"Ron" wrote in message
m...
I was remodeling a home in Oakland, Ca and all the inspectors were very
helpful us. The plumbing inspector even came out to the house to show us
how
he wanted us to run a waste line and connect to the sewer. The electrical
inspector was also helpful. We ran a new service and the weather head
wasn't
high enough for city code, but it complied with the NEC. He asked if we
were
given the city electrical code, we had not. He approved us and said, "For
future reference boy, it needs to be higher." I think Oakland wanted to
encourage home owners to maintain their property.
Ron

Around here electrical may be done by anyone but must be inspected for
compliance. The inspector is a nice guy and helpful. As for plumbing, it's
required that a licensed plumber do the plumbing, however a homeowner may do
the work and the inspectors are willing to help the owner understand whay
has to be done. As for the OP saying that he did things one way last year
and it wasn't allowed this year; well that is most likely because the rules
changed. I know we had one inspector come in and cite the plumber for three
things wrong, but then the inspectors supervisor came in and said things
were ok since the rules had changed from the previous year.



"Sasha" wrote in message
ups.com...
I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

"Sasha" wrote in message

When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules.

I blame the inspector. Sure, there are rules, but there are ways of
telling a person what has to be done and still maintain their professional
integrity. Most inspectors are decent people that just want to see the job
done right. There goal is to have safe buildings, not to bust your ass over
silly stuff. As in all walks of life, there is that 1% that is a real bozo.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On 1 Jul 2005 17:55:39 -0700, in alt.home.repair Plumbing
inspector nightmare "Sasha" wrote:

jI ust wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

You just answered your own question.

--
To reply to me directly, remove the CLUTTER from my email address.

"Vic Dura" wrote in message
...
On 1 Jul 2005 17:55:39 -0700, in alt.home.repair Plumbing
inspector nightmare "Sasha" wrote:

jI ust wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?

As lo0ng as it's safely done I have no problem. But as I've seen here in
just the past two days it appears people don't know much. For instance,
wiring 240V o0utlet with seperate electrical runs. If you're house caught
fire and then caused mine to go up I'd be pretty ****ed.


You just answered your own question.

--
To reply to me directly, remove the CLUTTER from my email address.

On 2-Jul-2005, "FDR" wrote:

As lo0ng as it's safely done I have no problem. But as I've seen here in
just the past two days it appears people don't know much.

I guess one thing to keep in mind when DIYing, especially w/regard to
electrical, is the effect it will have on your home insurance.

ml

Sasha wrote:
I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?


In my home town I'm not allowed to celebrate July4.
I am, however, allowed to PAY to watch the city officials celebrate my
Independence for me.

I don't bother, and only partially because I don't hold any grudges
against the Brits for what their ancestors King did, long ago.
That was certainly no worse than what MY "gummint" is doing.



--
If you find a posting or message from myself offensive,
inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know
how to ignore a posting,complain to me and I will demonstrate.

"Sasha" wrote in message
oups.com...
As part of remodeling my kitchen I had to redo plumbing on
the second
floor bathroom that is just above the kitchen. I was pretty
confident
in my plumbing skills and knowledge as I did a bug plumbing
project in
my house before. I plumbed full basement bath including
underslab
plumbing, installed sewage ejector pump, stand pipe, utility
sink. All
work was inspected multiple times and except few issues that
I had to
correct everything was fine. Now a new inspector in my
township came to
check my new kitchen and upstairs plumbing. He rejected my
work due to
several problems to his view:

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I
thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it
vents. I
have two 2" vents and that is more then adequate for my
house with 2
1/2 bath. Can someone point me to the place in NPC where it
states that
house must have these number of vents.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry
went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is
no good?

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to
connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited despite I
used them in
my basement and previous inspector approved them .I also
cannot
understand if Fernco couplings are prohibited why any HD
sells them?

Thats why about half the residential remodel woik gets
done sans permit...that is the home owner opts to just hope
the city's roving inspectors dont have x-ray eyes to look
through the walls and see that (gasp)...you are doing some
work.

Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.

"Pat" wrote in message
...
Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.



I've heard other people say that a toilet must have a 2" vent. Can you
quote the UPC chapter and verse that says that? I was looking for the
reference.

Terry wrote:

"Pat" wrote in message
...

Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.




I've heard other people say that a toilet must have a 2" vent. Can you
quote the UPC chapter and verse that says that? I was looking for the
reference.


As stated, Codes vary, but one says in effect that there
shall be at least one vent terminal which is the same size
as the main stack. So the requirement for a 3" vent may
not be unreasonable.

Jim

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
Terry wrote:

"Pat" wrote in message
...

Every house must have one 3 inch vent. Toilets must have a 2 inch vent
minimum. Just do what he wants and be done with it. If you are unable
to
figure out what he wants get a little help from a real plumber.




I've heard other people say that a toilet must have a 2" vent. Can you
quote the UPC chapter and verse that says that? I was looking for the
reference.


As stated, Codes vary, but one says in effect that there
shall be at least one vent terminal which is the same size
as the main stack. So the requirement for a 3" vent may
not be unreasonable.

Jim

Any house with over 20dfu will get a 3" main vent like you say. I have
always used 1 1/2" vents on WC with 3" main and 2" for 4" main. I just
thought maybe there was some clause somewhere that said that WC had to be
2" vent.

I cannot.

"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always fixed
my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will find
the wrong end of a gun!

EVEN in Massachusets! (though I doubt I will live there, too cold, but I do
like the Car Talk knuckleheads!)


cheers!

Easy there Cowboy! Put the gun down. Here, have a beer...

We don't call her MA for nothin!

And we have plenty of cowboys up here too. They do their own work and no one
says anything and everyone is fine unless some dickhead homeowner buys the
house and brings in some lawyers......

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

EVEN in Massachusets! (though I doubt I will live there, too cold, but I
do like the Car Talk knuckleheads!)


cheers!

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

Which, in many jurisdictions, would have you facing felonious assault
charges.

Which, in many jurisdictions, would have you facing felonious assault
charges.
************************************************** ******************
Not to mention the towm condeming the house and then selling it for back
taxes when he abandons it because he can't live there.
He sounds like a real intelligent person.

--
JerryD(upstateNY)

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

"NapalmHeart" wrote in message
...

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire
life, nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

Which, in many jurisdictions, would have you facing felonious assault
charges.


NP. he can then defend himself in court!

cowboy wrote:
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always fixed
my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will find
the wrong end of a gun!

EVEN in Massachusets! (though I doubt I will live there, too cold, but I do
like the Car Talk knuckleheads!)


cheers!



Next you'll tell us the only way they'll get your gun is by prying it
from your cold dead hands.

Shut yer yap crybaby.

Sasha writes:

He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

In many places the plumbing permitting and inspecting is run by the
plumbing trade itself in a confederacy with the local government, and has
the primary mission of forcing you to hire their overpriced and entry-
restricted tradesmen, which is partly kicked back to the local pols. If
you insist on doing work yourself on your own home (as is a codified right
in my state), you will, despite the legal entitlement, be subject to
various impediments, such as bureaucratic delays, excessive paperwork and
plans not required of the trade, and (as you seem to have discovered)
arbitrary and capricious inspections and interpretations of the so-called
and chimerical "code".

There is a bona fide purpose to building codes, but they are also in many
places tools for a kind of petty political/economic tyranny.

Hmmm. Odd. Only two newsgroups carrying this thread. Who left out
alt.conspiracy.theory...?

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hmmm. Odd. Only two newsgroups carrying this thread. Who left out
alt.conspiracy.theory...?

R


It IS on alt.conspiracy.theory. At least, is WAS...... ;-P

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 02:50:39 -0500, in alt.home.repair
Plumbing inspector nightmare Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Sasha writes:

He rejected my work due to
several problems to his view:

In many places the plumbing permitting and inspecting is run by the
plumbing trade itself in a confederacy with the local government, and has
the primary mission of forcing you to hire their overpriced and entry-
restricted tradesmen, which is partly kicked back to the local pols. If
you insist on doing work yourself on your own home (as is a codified right
in my state), you will, despite the legal entitlement, be subject to
various impediments, such as bureaucratic delays, excessive paperwork and
plans not required of the trade, and (as you seem to have discovered)
arbitrary and capricious inspections and interpretations of the so-called
and chimerical "code".

There is a bona fide purpose to building codes, but they are also in many
places tools for a kind of petty political/economic tyranny.

Well said and worth repeating.

--
To reply to me directly, remove the CLUTTER from my email address.

Sasha,

a new inspector in my township came to check my new kitchen and
upstairs plumbing. He rejected my work due to several problems

I guess I'm lucky. We built our own house last year (Washington State),
and did all the foundation, framing, plumbing, electrical, etc. ourselves.
We had at least 7-8 different inspectors over a 2 year period, and every
single one of them was pleasant to deal with, helpful when I had questions,
and usually commented on the excellent quality of our work. We'd call in an
inspection and they always showed up the next morning. We passed every
inspection without a single correction needed.

Our electrical inspector was a little apprehensive when he first showed up
and realized we did the wiring ourselves. But once he saw our work met or
exceeded all codes, he seemed very impressed and was more than happy to
approve our work.

The closest thing to a "hurdle" was the health department. They didn't
visit the site, but wanted me to draw up the plot plan in their office.
They seemed concerned about the proximity of our well and septic
system. Obviously my drawing was NOT to scale, we have more than the
minimum distances, and the system had been inspected and approved twice
already in the past several years. It only took a few minutes to straighten
out and wasn't a big deal, but that was the closest thing to a problem we
encountered.

1. He said my house must have 1 3" vent and two 2" vents. I thought
that vent size is determined by number of fixture units it vents.

Unless codes have changed, vent sizes ARE determined by fixture units, but
at least one 3" vent is required to reduce the change of frost/snow
closure.

In our house, I wanted to minimize the number of roof penetrations, so we
just have the single 3" roof vent (to match our 3" main drain). I ran 2"
vents from all fixtures in the house and tied them into the single roof
vent (with a 3" trunk line running through the attic). The inspector
approved it easily and said it was way more than I needed, but it
accomplished the single roof vent I wanted.

2. He insisted toilet must have a wet vent instead of dry went that I
put. Why does toilet must have wet vent and why dry vent is no good?

Hmm, never heard that one before. Usually the concern is that the toilet is
placed too far from a vent, which could lead to siphon and drainage
problems. If I remember correctly, the toilet drain can run a maximum of 6'
before it is vented (2" minimum vents for toilets). My 3" toilet drains run
about 2 feet before a 2" vent heads off to the attic.

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited

I don't know your situation, but I'm not sure if they are allowed in
"concealed" locations? I could be wrong though, as they are the standard
way of connecting no-hub cast iron piping.

I used one in our attic to connect our 3" PVC plumbing with a 3" ABS
section to stick out the roof (didn't want a white pipe above the roof, and
didn't have the vertical room for male/female adapters). I also used a
couple in our crawlspace for our bathtubs and master shower, as it made
installation and future maintenance easier.

Good luck!

Anthony

On 2005-07-02, HerHusband wrote:

3. He insisted that rubber Fernco couplings that I used to connect new
PVC DWV with old copper plumbing are prohibited

I used one in our attic to connect our 3" PVC plumbing with a 3" ABS
section to stick out the roof (didn't want a white pipe above the roof, and
didn't have the vertical room for male/female adapters).

Did you paint the ABS pipe? My understanding is that plastic pipes
shouldn't be exposed outside. [Exception: those with UV inhibitors,
like (I think) grey electrical plastic conduit.] For this reason I
use a short length of copper DWV for any exterior vent.

To the OP, one thing my inspector told me was that rubber couplings
with two individual metal clamps separated by exposed rubber are only
approved for buried use. In exposed locations, indoors and out, the
rubber couplings should have a continuous metal shield for the full
length. Could this be what your inspector was complaining about?

Cheers, Wayne

Wayne,

Did you paint the ABS pipe? My understanding is
that plastic pipes shouldn't be exposed outside.

Nope, just the bare ABS above the roof.

I've heard the same thing about exposed plastic pipe (primarily PVC), but
every house in our area (even million dollar homes) have the bare ABS above
the roof. Only 2 feet or so is exposed to the sun, and doesn't have any
water or anything causing pressure. I suppose it could deteriorate and
crack if someone leaned on it 10 years from now, but I'm not real
concerned. Thanks to the Fernco coupling, it's easily replaced if there's
ever a problem.

Anthony