wrote in message
...

On 2-Jul-2005, "FDR" wrote:

As lo0ng as it's safely done I have no problem. But as I've seen here
in
just the past two days it appears people don't know much.

I guess one thing to keep in mind when DIYing, especially w/regard to
electrical, is the effect it will have on your home insurance.


Generally speaking, code compliance or lack thereof will not have any effect
on your insurance coverage if your house burns down. Lies, fraud and
cheating will void an insurance policy. Mere stupidity won't.

"JRanieri" heck no wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

On 2-Jul-2005, "FDR" wrote:

As lo0ng as it's safely done I have no problem. But as I've seen here
in
just the past two days it appears people don't know much.

I guess one thing to keep in mind when DIYing, especially w/regard to
electrical, is the effect it will have on your home insurance.


Generally speaking, code compliance or lack thereof will not have any
effect
on your insurance coverage if your house burns down.

Well, you just may not get insurance again through that carrier either.

Lies, fraud and
cheating will void an insurance policy. Mere stupidity won't.

Wayne,

Did you paint the ABS pipe? My understanding is
that plastic pipes shouldn't be exposed outside.

Nope, just the bare ABS above the roof.

I've heard the same thing about exposed plastic pipe (primarily PVC), but
every house in our area (even million dollar homes) have the bare ABS above
the roof. Only 2 feet or so is exposed to the sun, and doesn't have any
water or anything causing pressure. I suppose it could deteriorate and
crack if someone leaned on it 10 years from now, but I'm not real
concerned. Thanks to the Fernco coupling, it's easily replaced if there's
ever a problem.

Anthony

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
Phil Scott wrote:
"G Henslee" wrote in message
...

Phil Scott wrote:


In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire
at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5

million

dollars each..



Which headlines were those?


I didnt clip them and glue them to my forehead or
anything.

Should have. Might have been an improvement.

It was all over the evenin' nooz in that time frame too.
Possibly you ain't payin' attention?



Possibly i ain't, but you brought it up as if you had the
6:00 news on
it... So put up or shut up.

you have chose to be a jerk... sorry. But thats not
impressive. There is NO need or requirement that one dig up
referrences for everything he asserts...thats only if you are
a journalist or whatever.

In conversation one says whate wishes and others get to decide
if its valid or not... certainly you can *ask for a reference
as you did... but there is no requirement to supply one. I
am not going to spend the time to dig up the channel 7 news or
SF Chronicle archives.

So take it or leave it.

However fraud in government is not exactly something new...it
tends to be way more than pervasive. In this thread we have
several others post of long standing practices of 'tipping'
building inspectors if you want your job to pass. that
should be a clooo for you.

Unfortunately now, since you have been unpleasant I must
terminate further discussion with you.

Phil Scott

Sasha wrote:
I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the story. The first time
plumbing inspector came for the inspection he just said: "Rejected"
very briefly mentioning what's rejected. When I asked him to to explain
what's wrong and how he wants things to be done. He completely refused
to talk to me saying they are not allowed to explain anything. I then
went to township and talked to the second plumbing inspector who
unfortunately happened to be subordinate of the first one. I ordered
reinspection and next time they both came to my house. The story
repeated again, they refused to explain to me anything at first. I then
told them. Imagine a situation that you are stopped by a police officer
and the officer just tell you: "you are fined $500". When you ask him
what the fine for the officer replies: "I am not allowed to tell you
anything". How would you feel? Finally after 30 minutes of tense
discussion the boos inspector within 20 seconds explain to me how he
wants me to fix issues. I spent two days doing this and today finally I
got approval. I don't blame the inspector, I blame the rules. We are
going to celebrate 4th of July, praising our liberties which are
without doubt invaluable. Someone from UK responded to my original
posting saying that in UK they can do anything in their own home. I
just wonder whether the US is really that free country as it states
when people there cannot do in their own homes what they want?


In my home town I'm not allowed to celebrate July4.
I am, however, allowed to PAY to watch the city officials celebrate my
Independence for me.

I don't bother, and only partially because I don't hold any grudges
against the Brits for what their ancestors King did, long ago.
That was certainly no worse than what MY "gummint" is doing.



--
If you find a posting or message from myself offensive,
inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know
how to ignore a posting,complain to me and I will demonstrate.

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight.
If you've got homeowners/contractors trying to cut corners and violate the
codes then, and only then, do you have a situation where a bribe can fix the
situation. I have never had an issue with an inspector on site and have
never paid a bribe in 25 years, and I've done jobs in the Boston
neighborhoods too. It is my job to know at least as much about the current
codes as the inspector and I follow them closely or surpass them, so there
is very little to argue about. No opportunity, no problem.
But I did decide once to pay a neighborhood guy's 12 year old kid and a
couple of his friends $100 a week (1980's) to keep a watch out in order to
be sure nothing happened to my jobsite! (The old man collected the money)

wrote in message
...

On 1-Jul-2005, "RicodJour" wrote:

If the guy seems reasonably willing to discuss things, but isn't
budging on his requirements, ask him to point out where exactly in the
code that it prohibits certain things (such as Fernco couplings). Be
aware that if you live in a smaller town, your plumbing inspector may
be the final authority - there may be no one to overrule him. Even if
there is, his boss may be unwilling to do so if it's minor stuff and no
one is "harmed". Your concerns are not for life and limb, just some
added expense for you.

Look at the bigger picture before you go making an enemy.

I built a deck at my old house. Replaced this awful concrete patio and
iron
railing (complete w/hardware cloth at the top...) that ran right up to
about
1 inch from the property line. Setback in Montgomery County was, not
remembering exactly now, 18 inches I think. Doesn't matter exactly. I
accounted for this in the design of the deck but neglected the 3/4 inch
redwood skirting. Thus I was about 1/2 inch in violation of code.

Inspector called me on it. I was polite and asked for suggestions as to
what to do as I felt it was a bit unreasonable to require me to tear down
the deck for 1/2 inch, especially when it was so much closer to compliance
than what was replaced. He didn't really have any suggestions as there
weren't any to be made, except for perhaps lose the skirting. The
neighbor
certainly didn't care about the 1/2 inch and was delighted that the old
gulag had been torn down and replaced with a nice deck.

There was an awkward silence for a bit and I got the impression he was
waiting for something. Then he said, ok, fine I'll pass it.

I asked a few folks later, 2 who worked for the county attorney's office,
and one who was a contractor and they were all of the opinion that what
that
guy was waiting for in that pause was an offer of a bribe. I have no
evidence that's what he wanted, just the 3 opinions.

Not sure what my point is w/regard to the original post just agreeing
w/RicodJour that inspectors can have all sorts of agendas.

ml

Easy there Cowboy! Put the gun down. Here, have a beer...

We don't call her MA for nothin!

And we have plenty of cowboys up here too. They do their own work and no one
says anything and everyone is fine unless some dickhead homeowner buys the
house and brings in some lawyers......

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

EVEN in Massachusets! (though I doubt I will live there, too cold, but I
do like the Car Talk knuckleheads!)


cheers!

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hmmm. Odd. Only two newsgroups carrying this thread. Who left out
alt.conspiracy.theory...?

R


It IS on alt.conspiracy.theory. At least, is WAS...... ;-P

On 4-Jul-2005, "BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight. If you've got homeowners/contractors trying to cut corners and
violate the
codes then, and only then, do you have a situation where a bribe can fix
the situation.

There was no corner cutting or trying to violate code. I made a simple
mistake, neglecting the width of some decorative skirting I wasn't planning
on at the time I did the design. Ok, I guess I was trying to violate code
by having him approve the deck when it was in fact 1/2 inch too close to the
property line.

I see two acceptable outcomes to this. 1) The guy says yeah, you screwed
up, but it's not dangerous, and its barely noticeable so I'm going to let
you pass this time. 2) The guy says I'm sorry, you're in violation of code
and I can't allow this to pass.

Note that 3) You are in violation of code but for an undocumented fee of $20
I will allow this to pass

is not on the list.

ml

wrote in message
...

On 4-Jul-2005, "BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight. If you've got homeowners/contractors trying to cut corners and
violate the
codes then, and only then, do you have a situation where a bribe can fix
the situation.

There was no corner cutting or trying to violate code. I made a simple
mistake, neglecting the width of some decorative skirting I wasn't
planning
on at the time I did the design. Ok, I guess I was trying to violate code
by having him approve the deck when it was in fact 1/2 inch too close to
the
property line.

I see two acceptable outcomes to this. 1) The guy says yeah, you screwed
up, but it's not dangerous, and its barely noticeable so I'm going to let
you pass this time. 2) The guy says I'm sorry, you're in violation of
code
and I can't allow this to pass.

Note that 3) You are in violation of code but for an undocumented fee of
$20
I will allow this to pass

is not on the list.

ml

Yeah, sorry. I wasn't really talking about your case. I was commenting on
the more generalized discussion on making and taking bribes. In your case
any reasonable person would just let it go. What the inspector was probably
thinking as he stood there in silence was: Is this guy trying to pull
something over on me? Can someone sue the Town over this? Can someone sue ME
over this? Do I need this aggravation?

Phil Scott wrote:


Unfortunately now, since you have been unpleasant I must
terminate further discussion with you.

Phil Scott



Post the news articles you referenced or STFU. btw, you haven't seen
unpleasant.

on at the time I did the design. Ok, I guess I was trying to violate
code
by having him approve the deck when it was in fact 1/2 inch too close to
the
property line.

I see two acceptable outcomes to this. 1) The guy says yeah, you screwed
up, but it's not dangerous, and its barely noticeable so I'm going to let
you pass this time. 2) The guy says I'm sorry, you're in violation of
code
and I can't allow this to pass.

Half inch? Not much in the scheme of life. I cannot imagine a reasonable
inspector not re-measuring this to see if there is truly an error. How
certain is he that the property line is exact from where he is measuring?
If you can get it to be 15/32" maybe he will round down the measurement.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
on at the time I did the design. Ok, I guess I was trying to violate
code
by having him approve the deck when it was in fact 1/2 inch too close to
the
property line.

I see two acceptable outcomes to this. 1) The guy says yeah, you screwed
up, but it's not dangerous, and its barely noticeable so I'm going to let
you pass this time. 2) The guy says I'm sorry, you're in violation of
code
and I can't allow this to pass.


Half inch? Not much in the scheme of life. I cannot imagine a reasonable
inspector not re-measuring this to see if there is truly an error. How
certain is he that the property line is exact from where he is measuring?
If you can get it to be 15/32" maybe he will round down the measurement.




I believe the point you mentioned was one more thing he may have been
considering when he paused. Waiting for a bribe during that infamous
pause has been entertaining fodder in this thread, but I doubt there's
any validity to it in this case.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
on at the time I did the design. Ok, I guess I was trying to violate
code
by having him approve the deck when it was in fact 1/2 inch too close to
the
property line.

I see two acceptable outcomes to this. 1) The guy says yeah, you screwed
up, but it's not dangerous, and its barely noticeable so I'm going to let
you pass this time. 2) The guy says I'm sorry, you're in violation of
code
and I can't allow this to pass.


Half inch? Not much in the scheme of life. I cannot imagine a reasonable
inspector not re-measuring this to see if there is truly an error. How
certain is he that the property line is exact from where he is measuring?
If you can get it to be 15/32" maybe he will round down the measurement.



That was my thought as well. It is hilarious that anyone would think
that property lines are accurate to a 1/2". I've had property surveyed
by two different surveyors and had corner point locations differ by a
nearly a foot over a run of a few hundred feet.

Although it is probably cheaper to fix the deck than to have the lot
surveyed ... and there is always the danger than the next survey will
put the line even closer to the deck! :-)


Matt

On 4-Jul-2005, Matt Whiting wrote:

That was my thought as well. It is hilarious that anyone would think
that property lines are accurate to a 1/2". I've had property surveyed
by two different surveyors and had corner point locations differ by a
nearly a foot over a run of a few hundred feet.

what can i tell ya.
in this case there was a chainlink fence he was assuming was running exactly
along the property line and he was measuring up to that.
at any rate he passed it and as far as i know it's still there.

ml

In article ,
"BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a bar
fight.


I resent that. I've been in 4 bar fights just this week and I've never
been an asshole. I would have been in more but I've been kicked out of
every place in town.

;-)


--
-JR
Hung like Einstein and smart as a horse
Remove NO SPAM from e-mai address to reply

"JR-jred" wrote in message
news:1120560287.996524d11e02bfbb10bef37cad241612@t eranews...
In article ,
"BP" wrote:

It has always been my experience that it takes two assholes to make a
bar
fight.


I resent that. I've been in 4 bar fights just this week and I've never
been an asshole. I would have been in more but I've been kicked out of
every place in town.

I'm too old. I just shoot them, then I fight them.



;-)


--
-JR
Hung like Einstein and smart as a horse
Remove NO SPAM from e-mai address to reply

I think you may have bribed your teachers in school so you could pass. Your
spelling and grammar reflect this. Staple a $5.00 spot with your english
tests?

Doug


"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
Phil Scott wrote:
"G Henslee" wrote in message
...

Phil Scott wrote:


In San Francisco Calif..unless the headlines were all
bogus... the city building dept was one huge bribery
operation... gasp... that couldnt possibly be true
however...these were civil 'servants' all set to retire
at
around age 55 with city funded pensions worth 3 to 5

million

dollars each..



Which headlines were those?


I didnt clip them and glue them to my forehead or
anything.

Should have. Might have been an improvement.

It was all over the evenin' nooz in that time frame too.
Possibly you ain't payin' attention?



Possibly i ain't, but you brought it up as if you had the
6:00 news on
it... So put up or shut up.

you have chose to be a jerk... sorry. But thats not
impressive. There is NO need or requirement that one dig up
referrences for everything he asserts...thats only if you are
a journalist or whatever.

In conversation one says whate wishes and others get to decide
if its valid or not... certainly you can *ask for a reference
as you did... but there is no requirement to supply one. I
am not going to spend the time to dig up the channel 7 news or
SF Chronicle archives.

So take it or leave it.

However fraud in government is not exactly something new...it
tends to be way more than pervasive. In this thread we have
several others post of long standing practices of 'tipping'
building inspectors if you want your job to pass. that
should be a clooo for you.

Unfortunately now, since you have been unpleasant I must
terminate further discussion with you.

Phil Scott

HerHusband wrote:
Wayne,

Did you paint the ABS pipe? My understanding is
that plastic pipes shouldn't be exposed outside.

Nope, just the bare ABS above the roof.

I've heard the same thing about exposed plastic pipe (primarily PVC), but
every house in our area (even million dollar homes) have the bare ABS above
the roof. Only 2 feet or so is exposed to the sun, and doesn't have any
water or anything causing pressure. I suppose it could deteriorate and
crack if someone leaned on it 10 years from now, but I'm not real
concerned. Thanks to the Fernco coupling, it's easily replaced if there's
ever a problem.

Anthony
It should be noted that plastic (pvc?) electric conduit comes in both
standard and sunlight resistant kinds.
Probably the sunlight specs of plumbing pvc could be found easily?

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

Right after they drop their empty beer can in it

wrote to hisself:
Right after they drop their empty beer can in it


Who? What? When?

The wet vent is the one roofers use when they have to pee

Right after they drop their empty beer can in it

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

Which, in many jurisdictions, would have you facing felonious assault
charges.

Which, in many jurisdictions, would have you facing felonious assault
charges.
************************************************** ******************
Not to mention the towm condeming the house and then selling it for back
taxes when he abandons it because he can't live there.
He sounds like a real intelligent person.

--
JerryD(upstateNY)

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

cowboy wrote:
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always fixed
my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire life,
nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will find
the wrong end of a gun!

EVEN in Massachusets! (though I doubt I will live there, too cold, but I do
like the Car Talk knuckleheads!)


cheers!



Next you'll tell us the only way they'll get your gun is by prying it
from your cold dead hands.

Shut yer yap crybaby.

"NapalmHeart" wrote in message
...

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
"In my state (MA) a homeowner can't do his own plumbing."

Bull**** on that! your state can kiss my ass! I will always do every
bit of work in every house I ever live in, plumbing, framing, electrical,
roofing, whatever...........just like I always have........and always
fixed my own cars

I have never employed a professional to repair anything in my entire
life, nor will I

and any SOB inspector who says I can't work on something of my own will
find the wrong end of a gun!

Which, in many jurisdictions, would have you facing felonious assault
charges.


NP. he can then defend himself in court!