Owain mentioned dowsing on the Drain flies thread. I've never heard of drain
flies!

But has anyone here done dowsing?

Mary

On Mon, 1 May 2006 21:30:25 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

|Owain mentioned dowsing on the Drain flies thread. I've never heard of drain
|flies!
|
|But has anyone here done dowsing?

Yes long ago, Very strange things happened, but I was unable to produce
consistent and repeatable results :-(
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Mary Fisher wrote:
Owain mentioned dowsing on the Drain flies thread. I've never heard of drain
flies!

But has anyone here done dowsing?

Mary

Yes. Dead easy. Get two straight pieces of wire coat hanger and bend
the ends down at right angles for about three inches. Hold the
bent-down ends vertically in the centre of each hand that you 'make a
fist'. do this losely so the rods are free to swing. ( you can cut two
pieces of broomstick about 4" long and drill loose holes for the wires
down the centre and hold these in your fists) With the straight ends of
the wire pointing away from you and your arms fully extended start
walking in the desired direction. When you cross a water pipe/drain etc
the two rods will start swinging and will cross each other at the point
of water.

The other week there were two guys in our street trying to trace an oil
pipe with hi tech equipment. No deal. I got my rods out and showed them
how to dowse. They got it bang on. They were a bit bemused and I had an
enigmatic smile on my face.

"Mary Fisher" wrote:

Owain mentioned dowsing on the Drain flies thread. I've never heard of drain
flies!

But has anyone here done dowsing?

I've tried it with minor success. A friend of mine can do it
consistently though.

I once got him to find a buried junction box for some streetlights. He
uses two bent welding rods rather than a forked twig, and these
crossed over at the exact spot. He even correctly told me how far down
the box was.

I was deeply skeptical before I saw it done. I don't know HOW it works
and neither does my friend, but it certainly does.

John
--
John White,
Electrical Contractor

"Bookworm" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mary Fisher wrote:
Owain mentioned dowsing on the Drain flies thread. I've never heard of
drain
flies!

But has anyone here done dowsing?

Mary

Yes. Dead easy. Get two straight pieces of wire coat hanger and bend
the ends down at right angles for about three inches. Hold the
bent-down ends vertically in the centre of each hand that you 'make a
fist'. do this losely so the rods are free to swing. ( you can cut two
pieces of broomstick about 4" long and drill loose holes for the wires
down the centre and hold these in your fists) With the straight ends of
the wire pointing away from you and your arms fully extended start
walking in the desired direction. When you cross a water pipe/drain etc
the two rods will start swinging and will cross each other at the point
of water.

I know HOW it's done, just wondered if folk here had.

The other week there were two guys in our street trying to trace an oil
pipe with hi tech equipment. No deal. I got my rods out and showed them
how to dowse. They got it bang on. They were a bit bemused and I had an
enigmatic smile on my face.

:-)

Mary

"John White" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote:

Owain mentioned dowsing on the Drain flies thread. I've never heard of
drain
flies!

But has anyone here done dowsing?

I've tried it with minor success. A friend of mine can do it
consistently though.

I once got him to find a buried junction box for some streetlights. He
uses two bent welding rods rather than a forked twig, and these
crossed over at the exact spot. He even correctly told me how far down
the box was.

I was deeply skeptical before I saw it done. I don't know HOW it works
and neither does my friend, but it certainly does.

I did it on a map of daughter's farm with a pendulum to find a water course.
It worked. Never tried it since though. Never need to and just don't think
about it.

Mary


John
--
John White,
Electrical Contractor

Mary Fisher expressed precisely :
Owain mentioned dowsing on the Drain flies thread. I've never heard of drain
flies!

But has anyone here done dowsing?

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Bookworm wrote:
When you cross a water pipe/drain etc
the two rods will start swinging and will cross each other at the point
of water.

This is 100% pure and total bunkum.

If you can do this and prove that it works, you are entitled to a $1m
dollar prize from the James Randi foundation (www.randi.org). The prize
has been available for years, and still no dowsers have stepped up to
claim it.

[the original poster mentioned this word, and I couldn't believe he was
seriously thinking of the silly made-up charming bunkum, so I looked it
up on dictionary.com. Apparently the word means to soak or saturate, so
I assumed he had some other technical reason for mentioning it ..]

The other week there were two guys in our street trying to trace an oil
pipe with hi tech equipment. No deal. I got my rods out and showed them
how to dowse. They got it bang on. They were a bit bemused and I had an
enigmatic smile on my face.

Then you should go for the $1m dollar prize from Randi. Post back and
let us know how you get on. Can I have 10% for letting you know about it ?

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

John White wrote:

I've tried it with minor success. A friend of mine can do it
consistently though.

http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

John White wrote:

I was deeply skeptical before I saw it done. I don't know HOW it works
and neither does my friend, but it certainly does.

It doesn't. http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

If your friend can demonstrate the alleged ability under scientific
conditions he is up for $1,000,000.

If he cracks that I'll sell my house & add £200,000 myself.

--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:

If he cracks that I'll sell my house & add £200,000 myself.

Hey! I told him first !

... Wikipedia has an article detailing several large-scale experiments
done over the past few decades attempting to prove dowsing. All of them
were failures.

In Randi's tests in 1980 he put ten plastic pipes under the ground, ran
water through one of them and asked the dowsers to say which pipe was
carrying the water - they were only able to tell correctly 11% of the
time (ie they guessed and hit the button a few times). The dowsers
agreed the test conditions prior to the test.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote:

John White wrote:

I was deeply skeptical before I saw it done. I don't know HOW it works
and neither does my friend, but it certainly does.

It doesn't.

I'm not asking you to believe in dowsing. I'm not asking you to
believe what I say. I'm not even asking you to believe that my friend
and I exist.

You're quite free to believe whatever you want to, so don't worry
about it.

If your friend can demonstrate the alleged ability under scientific
conditions he is up for $1,000,000.

Why would he want to do that? What makes you think he cares whether
people believe in dowsing or not?

If he cracks that I'll sell my house & add £200,000 myself.

You seem to have a lot of faith that money will provide a solution.
Personally I doubt it, but I'm honestly glad that you believe this, as
it will make your life much more straightforward.

John
--
John White,
Electrical Contractor

Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:
Bookworm wrote:
When you cross a water pipe/drain etc
the two rods will start swinging and will cross each other at the point
of water.

This is 100% pure and total bunkum.

If you can do this and prove that it works, you are entitled to a $1m
dollar prize from the James Randi foundation (www.randi.org). The prize
has been available for years, and still no dowsers have stepped up to
claim it.

[the original poster mentioned this word, and I couldn't believe he was
seriously thinking of the silly made-up charming bunkum, so I looked it
up on dictionary.com. Apparently the word means to soak or saturate, so
I assumed he had some other technical reason for mentioning it ..]

The other week there were two guys in our street trying to trace an oil
pipe with hi tech equipment. No deal. I got my rods out and showed them
how to dowse. They got it bang on. They were a bit bemused and I had an
enigmatic smile on my face.

Then you should go for the $1m dollar prize from Randi. Post back and
let us know how you get on. Can I have 10% for letting you know about it ?

Dowsing works, but you can't prove you weren't cheating in a RANDI test.

Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?


There is none.

It seems to not have a problem working, despite that.

"Geronimo W. Christ Esq" wrote:

John White wrote:

I've tried it with minor success. A friend of mine can do it
consistently though.

http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

Thanks for the link. I do believe that people like the James Randi
Educational Foundation are coming at this from the right angle.

That may surprise you, but if you start off by believing that a thing
is true, then the tendency is to do experiments which will prove your
theory. If however you start on the basis that the claims are NOT
true, then by definition the standard of proof has to be much higher.

On the other hand, as my history teacher used to say, "Absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence".

I do not know how it works, I have only seen it done as I described
earlier in this thread. I would however like to know.

John
--
John White,
Electrical Contractor

John White wrote:
"Geronimo W. Christ Esq" wrote:
John White wrote:

I've tried it with minor success. A friend of mine can do it
consistently though.

http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

Mr Randi's claim that small human movements move the pendulum is known
and easy to observe. It is known to many dowsers just the same as
non-dowsers. The critique of those that think dowsing is a direct
object to pendulum force of some kind is a straw man argument.

Does dowsing work? I tried it once out of curiosity and was surprised
to get results, but would be truly unhappy to see someone charging a
client for it. Its at best way out there. If its your last chance, cant
hurt to try it.


NT

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

There is none.

It seems to not have a problem working, despite that.

Lots of things have no yet known explanation. The workings of the human
body are the prime example. There is genuine evidence against dowsing,
but more often its invalid arguments that are offered.


NT

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.


It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the
known laws of physics ?


There is none.

It seems to not have a problem working, despite that.

same goes for accupuncture, yet that even works on animals.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

If dowsing worked it would be a very valuable skill - for ordinary
purposes such as finding water pipes etc let alone the exotic such as
finding gold, buried treasure and so on. So any dowser could earn a
bomb. In which case they would advertise their services. There aren't
any in the yellow pages. There aren't any (convincing) on the net.
Where are they? The answer is that there aren't any - it doesn't work.
However there many service industries who regularly need to search for
pipes. cables etc etc. They don't use dowsers. They would if they were
any good, but they aren't, it's a myth.
The occasional anecdote is not enough to amount to evidence. The
proof's in the pudding - those who really need them don't use them -
cos they don't exist, or if they claim to have the ability can't
demonstrate it.

cheers

Jacob

PS next time you see a gas or water board man looking for a leaking
pipe ask him why he doesn't use a dowser.

In article ,
says...
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

An underground stream will affect the vegetation above it. An
underground pipe would do too cos the earth has been dug up and relaid
unlike in the surrounding areas. It is possible to read from a map the
likely places to find water eg in a valley

I would think that a lot of the success of dowsing is because the dowser
subconsciously picks up on these clues.

I once went on a one day dowsing course but as a fully accredited and
certificated dowser I have to say that my subconscious doesnt work at
all well

Anna

--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Anna Kettle wrote:
In article ,
says...
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

An underground stream will affect the vegetation above it. An
underground pipe would do too cos the earth has been dug up and relaid
unlike in the surrounding areas. It is possible to read from a map the
likely places to find water eg in a valley

I would think that a lot of the success of dowsing is because the dowser
subconsciously picks up on these clues.

Same with old buildings - if you work in them long enough you pick up a
sensitivity to things which have been done - which show as
discontinuities and changes however well they have been made good.
An old trick - more interesting than dowsing and more useful, is to
hold a torch against a wall and shine it across the surface. It can
show up all sorts of bumps where pipes/cables have been installed, or
openings filled up etc. not to mention the crudeness of the apparently
flat plaster work!

cheers

Jacob

Mary Fisher wrote:
"John White" wrote in message
...

I was deeply skeptical before I saw it done. I don't know HOW it works
and neither does my friend, but it certainly does.


I did it on a map of daughter's farm with a pendulum to find a water course.
It worked. Never tried it since though. Never need to and just don't think
about it.

Considering that everywhere under the ground there is a water
table, it's not surprising that a "water course" will be found if
you dig *anywhere*.

"Nick" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"John White" wrote in message
...

I was deeply skeptical before I saw it done. I don't know HOW it works
and neither does my friend, but it certainly does.


I did it on a map of daughter's farm with a pendulum to find a water
course. It worked. Never tried it since though. Never need to and just
don't think about it.

Considering that everywhere under the ground there is a water table, it's
not surprising that a "water course" will be found if you dig *anywhere*.

Yes, in a waking moment in bed I realised that I'd used the wrong word and
intended correcting it this morning. It was a well. She had been told by a
neighbour that there was one but not where, now she does.

Mary

"Geronimo W. Christ Esq" wrote in message
...
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

What's the explanation for life in terms of the *known* laws of physics? Or
death, come to that?

Are you suggesting that we've reached the point where we know EVERYTHING?

Mary

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.


It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?


There is none.

It seems to not have a problem working, despite that.

same goes for accupuncture, yet that even works on animals.

And homoeopathy ...

Mary

--
Cheers,

John.

wrote in message
oups.com...
If dowsing worked it would be a very valuable skill - for ordinary
purposes such as finding water pipes etc let alone the exotic such as
finding gold, buried treasure and so on. So any dowser could earn a
bomb. In which case they would advertise their services. There aren't
any in the yellow pages. There aren't any (convincing) on the net.
Where are they? The answer is that there aren't any - it doesn't work.
However there many service industries who regularly need to search for
pipes. cables etc etc. They don't use dowsers.

You know that? You know that none of them uses dowsers?

You're wrong.

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

An underground stream will affect the vegetation above it. An
underground pipe would do too cos the earth has been dug up and relaid
unlike in the surrounding areas. It is possible to read from a map the
likely places to find water eg in a valley

I would think that a lot of the success of dowsing is because the dowser
subconsciously picks up on these clues.

I once went on a one day dowsing course but as a fully accredited and
certificated dowser I have to say that my subconscious doesnt work at
all well

That shows that your subconscious hasn't worked at all well on those
occasions, nothing more :-)

Mary

Anna

--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Mary Fisher wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

There is none.

It seems to not have a problem working, despite that.
same goes for accupuncture, yet that even works on animals.

And homoeopathy ...


Strangely enough,m that one doesn't work.

Homeopathy has been extensively tested and found relatively wanting.

Apart from the placebo effect.


Mary
--
Cheers,

John.

wrote:

If dowsing worked it would be a very valuable skill - for ordinary

My comment was not about dowsing as such, but was addressing the the oft
quoted mantra that if the mechanism by which something appears to work
is not understood, or cannot be explained with our current knowledge of
the world around us, then it must be bogus. This argument always misses
the obvious possibility that the problem is not with the phenomenon
being bogus, but with the state of current knowledge being insufficient.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dowsing works, but you can't prove you weren't cheating in a RANDI test.

The objective term 'it works' is linked to an objective test. The 'Randi Test'
is about the best there is in this field and, unless 'it work' for an
equivalent test the phrase simply doesn't apply.

It doesn't work - but the psychology of it gets around our subjective human
expectations.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geronimo W. Christ Esq" wrote in message
...
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?

What's the explanation for life in terms of the *known* laws of physics? Or
death, come to that?

Physics isn't the study of life. Find the right subject area and you can get
an explanation that will exhaust your ability to learn and understand.

Are you suggesting that we've reached the point where we know EVERYTHING?

You cannot cope with knowing everything. We know more than you can cope with -
and NB that applies to everyone, not just Mary!

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Geronimo W. Christ Esq" wrote in message
...

Harry Bloomfield wrote:


No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?


What's the explanation for life in terms of the *known* laws of physics? Or
death, come to that?

Are you suggesting that we've reached the point where we know EVERYTHING?

Mary




I certainly knew everything when I was 17, not so sure now though.

Zoinks.

Mary Fisher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
If dowsing worked it would be a very valuable skill - for ordinary
purposes such as finding water pipes etc let alone the exotic such as
finding gold, buried treasure and so on. So any dowser could earn a
bomb. In which case they would advertise their services. There aren't
any in the yellow pages. There aren't any (convincing) on the net.
Where are they? The answer is that there aren't any - it doesn't work.
However there many service industries who regularly need to search for
pipes. cables etc etc. They don't use dowsers.

You know that? You know that none of them uses dowsers?

You're wrong.

I researched it in some detail years ago when looking for a well where
we lived in Wales. We actually used a recommended local dowser who did
a convincing demo with dipping twigs etc. He chose the same place for
the well that I had already guessed as suitable by virtue of location,
greener grass etc. We also asked a local 'water engineer' who suggested
an even better place for a well, which we eventually used. He was very
rude about dowsers.
We asked the water board for advice also. They said that wells or
boreholes were obtainable virtually everywhere if you dug deep enough
into 'the shales and flags of the Upper Wenlock' - so we all would have
been right.
Since then I have made a point of asking any water/gas/drainage worker
I have encountered if they would use dowsers and they all said of
course not.
There are 'dowsers' on the net if you google but they are obviously
new-age fruitcakes to a man!
I'm interested in the subject because I'm interested in why people
believe nonsense such as homeopathy, santa claus, fairies, etc etc. and
God of course.
It's important because modern politics such as the Iraq war is driven
by Bush and Blair both believers in dangerous religious nonsense.
Dowsing and all that crap is the thin end of a big dangerous wedge!

cheers

Jacob

Mary Fisher wrote:
But has anyone here done dowsing?

It does not work. Try alt.stupid.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
....


It seems to not have a problem working, despite that.
same goes for accupuncture, yet that even works on animals.

And homoeopathy ...


Strangely enough,m that one doesn't work.

Homeopathy has been extensively tested and found relatively wanting.

Apart from the placebo effect.

Our daughter's animals must be more intelligent than we thought if they
understand the 'placebo effect'.

And the animals of many other farmers we know. Commercial farmers, by the
way, not hobbyists. Go to the Royal Show and talk to some before you're so
dismissive.

Mary

wrote in message
oups.com...

Mary Fisher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
If dowsing worked it would be a very valuable skill - for ordinary
purposes such as finding water pipes etc let alone the exotic such as
finding gold, buried treasure and so on. So any dowser could earn a
bomb. In which case they would advertise their services. There aren't
any in the yellow pages. There aren't any (convincing) on the net.
Where are they? The answer is that there aren't any - it doesn't work.
However there many service industries who regularly need to search for
pipes. cables etc etc. They don't use dowsers.

You know that? You know that none of them uses dowsers?

You're wrong.

I researched it in some detail years ago when looking for a well where
we lived in Wales. We actually used a recommended local dowser who did
a convincing demo with dipping twigs etc. He chose the same place for
the well that I had already guessed as suitable by virtue of location,
greener grass etc. We also asked a local 'water engineer' who suggested
an even better place for a well, which we eventually used. He was very
rude about dowsers.
We asked the water board for advice also. They said that wells or
boreholes were obtainable virtually everywhere if you dug deep enough
into 'the shales and flags of the Upper Wenlock' - so we all would have
been right.
Since then I have made a point of asking any water/gas/drainage worker
I have encountered if they would use dowsers and they all said of
course not.
There are 'dowsers' on the net if you google but they are obviously
new-age fruitcakes to a man!
I'm interested in the subject because I'm interested in why people
believe nonsense such as homeopathy, santa claus, fairies, etc etc. and
God of course.
It's important because modern politics such as the Iraq war is driven
by Bush and Blair both believers in dangerous religious nonsense.
Dowsing and all that crap is the thin end of a big dangerous wedge!

cheers

Jacob

Your beliefs are as valido as those of the rest of us.

Mary

"Zoinks" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Geronimo W. Christ Esq" wrote in message
...

Harry Bloomfield wrote:


No, but I know of a very convincing person who has done it.

It's nonsense. What's the explanation for dowsing in terms of the known
laws of physics ?


What's the explanation for life in terms of the *known* laws of physics?
Or death, come to that?

Are you suggesting that we've reached the point where we know EVERYTHING?

Mary




I certainly knew everything when I was 17, not so sure now though.

ah - you're right - I hadn't allowed for the poster's intellectual age.

Mary

Zoinks.

Mary Fisher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Mary Fisher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
If dowsing worked it would be a very valuable skill - for ordinary
purposes such as finding water pipes etc let alone the exotic such as
finding gold, buried treasure and so on. So any dowser could earn a
bomb. In which case they would advertise their services. There aren't
any in the yellow pages. There aren't any (convincing) on the net.
Where are they? The answer is that there aren't any - it doesn't work.
However there many service industries who regularly need to search for
pipes. cables etc etc. They don't use dowsers.

You know that? You know that none of them uses dowsers?

You're wrong.

I researched it in some detail years ago when looking for a well where
we lived in Wales. We actually used a recommended local dowser who did
a convincing demo with dipping twigs etc. He chose the same place for
the well that I had already guessed as suitable by virtue of location,
greener grass etc. We also asked a local 'water engineer' who suggested
an even better place for a well, which we eventually used. He was very
rude about dowsers.
We asked the water board for advice also. They said that wells or
boreholes were obtainable virtually everywhere if you dug deep enough
into 'the shales and flags of the Upper Wenlock' - so we all would have
been right.
Since then I have made a point of asking any water/gas/drainage worker
I have encountered if they would use dowsers and they all said of
course not.
There are 'dowsers' on the net if you google but they are obviously
new-age fruitcakes to a man!
I'm interested in the subject because I'm interested in why people
believe nonsense such as homeopathy, santa claus, fairies, etc etc. and
God of course.
It's important because modern politics such as the Iraq war is driven
by Bush and Blair both believers in dangerous religious nonsense.
Dowsing and all that crap is the thin end of a big dangerous wedge!

cheers

Jacob

Your beliefs are as valido as those of the rest of us.

Mary

I don't have beliefs.

cheers

Jacob