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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Britains' oldest boiler..
Non of yer new fangled condensing malarky here. I even spotted a relay
valve and weepline stat on one of them!. http://www.oldestboiler.co.uk/ view the pdf book. Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email |
#2
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Britains' oldest boiler..
in 514315 20060324 081814 tarquinlinbin wrote:
Non of yer new fangled condensing malarky here. I even spotted a relay valve and weepline stat on one of them!. http://www.oldestboiler.co.uk/ view the pdf book. These all look incredibly modern compared to the boiler in my house when I moved in (1969). It was oil, which was dripped into a round dish and burned with a swan-neck pipe blowing air into the centre of the dish. It packed up about 3 weeks later. |
#3
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Britains' oldest boiler..
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:00:37 GMT, Bob Martin
wrote: in 514315 20060324 081814 tarquinlinbin wrote: Non of yer new fangled condensing malarky here. I even spotted a relay valve and weepline stat on one of them!. http://www.oldestboiler.co.uk/ view the pdf book. These all look incredibly modern compared to the boiler in my house when I moved in (1969). It was oil, which was dripped into a round dish and burned with a swan-neck pipe blowing air into the centre of the dish. It packed up about 3 weeks later. Wow that does sound crude. The fore runner to the forced draught burner perhaps? Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email |
#4
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message ... I thought it was me ... Mary |
#5
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message ... Non of yer new fangled condensing malarky here. I even spotted a relay valve and weepline stat on one of them!. Yep, I used to work on them. A tube of neatsfoot oil for the leather diaphragm on the relay valve cured any gas leaks and made it run smoother. They were purely non-electric controls with weep pipes going to the boiler 'stat, room 'stat and mechanical clock too. Some had modulating burners, in that the stats were gradual acting and would slowly close or remain stable. In doing so the relay valve would move up and down reducing the gas to the burner, modulating the burner. It took many years to get modulation with electric controls. There were some kits available to replace the leather diaphragms with neoprene in the valves. They were very reliable, more reliable than the electric controls. They were simple...once you understood them. The average plumber would run a mile from them. http://www.oldestboiler.co.uk/ view the pdf book. |
#6
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Britains' oldest boiler..
Bob Martin wrote: These all look incredibly modern compared to the boiler in my house when I moved in (1969). It was oil, which was dripped into a round dish and burned with a swan-neck pipe blowing air into the centre of the dish. It packed up about 3 weeks later. Yes, mine would have come second, but I ripped it out a year or two back. It dated was made by Powell Dufryn (?) in 1963, cast iron, one section, the thermostat was operated by gas pressure. Still working when I dumped it, the most complex bit was a buzzing solenoid valve. It lit with an alarming 'whoompf' sound. In comparison, see this; http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18424734.400.html |
#7
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Britains' oldest boiler..
On 24 Mar 2006 09:30:19 -0800, "Aidan" wrote:
Bob Martin wrote: These all look incredibly modern compared to the boiler in my house when I moved in (1969). It was oil, which was dripped into a round dish and burned with a swan-neck pipe blowing air into the centre of the dish. It packed up about 3 weeks later. Yes, mine would have come second, but I ripped it out a year or two back. It dated was made by Powell Dufryn (?) in 1963, cast iron, one section, the thermostat was operated by gas pressure. Still working when I dumped it, the most complex bit was a buzzing solenoid valve. It lit with an alarming 'whoompf' sound. In comparison, see this; http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18424734.400.html This sounds like rhetoric from that guy who writes for the Telegraph. The author has made the typical confusion between combi and condensing boilers. One might expect it in the press - even the Telegraph doesn't always get things right - but one would have hoped that a journal purporting to explain science could do a bit better than this. -- ..andy Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#8
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Britains' oldest boiler..
The message . com
from "Aidan" contains these words: In comparison, see this; http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18424734.400.html That tickled me the first time I read it 'cos I'd not long had the same argument with someone about cars. "The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs does not include these secondary energy costs in its efficiency ratings for boilers. Until the full life cycle is factored in - including costs to install, service, maintain and recycle - boilers and other supposedly energy-saving products may generate more pollution, not less." Yeah, and you can bet DoT doesn't do so with new cars, either. I keep meaning to ask Last Word where the break even point is between scrapping a moderately efficient old car and building a new more efficient one. I can't believe it's always better to scrap old cars just 'cos they're less efficient. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#9
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Guy King" wrote in message ... The message . com from "Aidan" contains these words: In comparison, see this; http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18424734.400.html That tickled me the first time I read it 'cos I'd not long had the same argument with someone about cars. "The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs does not include these secondary energy costs in its efficiency ratings for boilers. Until the full life cycle is factored in - including costs to install, service, maintain and recycle - boilers and other supposedly energy-saving products may generate more pollution, not less." Yeah, and you can bet DoT doesn't do so with new cars, either. I keep meaning to ask Last Word where the break even point is between scrapping a moderately efficient old car and building a new more efficient one. I can't believe it's always better to scrap old cars just 'cos they're less efficient. Modern cars are infinitely more reliable, with far less service intervals, than older cars, especially Hondas and Toyotas. |
#10
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Aidan" wrote in message ups.com... Bob Martin wrote: These all look incredibly modern compared to the boiler in my house when I moved in (1969). It was oil, which was dripped into a round dish and burned with a swan-neck pipe blowing air into the centre of the dish. It packed up about 3 weeks later. Yes, mine would have come second, but I ripped it out a year or two back. It dated was made by Powell Dufryn (?) in 1963, cast iron, one section, the thermostat was operated by gas pressure. Still working when I dumped it, the most complex bit was a buzzing solenoid valve. It lit with an alarming 'whoompf' sound. In comparison, see this; http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18424734.400.html Total tripe. "Take one example. A survey of gas installers that I and colleagues conducted in the Nottingham area revealed that some 40 per cent of today's energy-efficient combination boilers break down within the first year, and ongoing repair and service costs can average £160 per year. Boiler lifespans are down to only three years in some cases." He and his colleagues carried out? 3 years? Get a life!! Only in the Torygraph! "The energy expended in repairs, manufacturing of parts, distribution networks and so on may soon outstrip the working energy saved by the new-style boilers - if it hasn't already. As a result, a so-called energy-saving boiler may use more energy and be more polluting than a simple old-style boiler with manual pilot light and cast-iron components." More total ********. |
#11
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Guy King" wrote in message ... The message from Andy Hall contains these words: The author has made the typical confusion between combi and condensing boilers. One might expect it in the press - even the Telegraph doesn't always get things right - but one would have hoped that a journal purporting to explain science could do a bit better than this. Well, it was a letter rather than an article, so New Scientist isn't directly responsible for the views expressed, but often the debate stimulated by such letters is revealing. Anyway, just 'cos he mentions combination boilers and may have meant condensing boilers doesn't mean the whole argument is wrong. I happen to think he may well have a point. He hasn't a point at all. This is tabloid misinformation crap based on firm data at all. |
#12
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Guy King" wrote in message ... I can't believe it's always better to scrap old cars just 'cos they're less efficient. They are scrapped because they are not economically viable to fix. They can all be fixeded, but cost more to fix than what the market value is. One of my favourite boilers is the Dutch Atmos because of the large copper coil/aluminium heat exchanger. The controls are very simple and ultra reliable. They even have a no drain condensing model. They have only recently been sold in the UK. A real quality product. Expensive but worth it. http://www.atmos.uk.com/core_files/productDoc(109).pdf |
#13
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Britains' oldest boiler..
Andy Hall wrote: The author has made the typical confusion between combi and condensing boilers. He may have. I think it more likely that he meant exactly what he said; "...........that some 40 per cent of today's energy-efficient combination boilers break down within the first year" I spent some time trying to steer a relative away from a combi. They're more complex than the equivalent system boiler and just have more parts to go wrong. The relative lives in a hard water area. I doubt that my new boiler will last the 40 years it's predecessor did. I'm spending a lot less on gas though. One might expect it in the press - even the Telegraph doesn't always get things right - but one would have hoped that a journal purporting to explain science could do a bit better than this. It was a letter and I've no idea whether the author has any technical background. It sounds quite plausible. |
#14
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Guy King" wrote in message ... The message . com from "Aidan" contains these words: Yeah, and you can bet DoT doesn't do so with new cars, either. I keep meaning to ask Last Word where the break even point is between scrapping a moderately efficient old car and building a new more efficient one. I can't believe it's always better to scrap old cars just 'cos they're less efficient. I've never been convinced of that either but am always shouted down! Mary |
#15
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Britains' oldest boiler..
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words: I've never been convinced of that either but am always shouted down! Were you the Mary Fisher on Feedback today? -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#16
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Aidan" wrote in message oups.com... I doubt that my new boiler will last the 40 years it's predecessor did. I'm spending a lot less on gas though. Your lucky then.. I estimate that I would save at most £5pm over what my 25 year old boiler uses. It will take a long time to save the cost of a new "modern" boiler. |
#17
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Guy King" wrote in message ... The message from "Mary Fisher" contains these words: I've never been convinced of that either but am always shouted down! Were you the Mary Fisher on Feedback today? I cannot tell a lie! It was a surprise to us too but I didn't think anyone else would notice. It was sent about three weeks ago. Mary |
#18
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Britains' oldest boiler..
In message , Mary Fisher
writes "Guy King" wrote in message ... The message . com from "Aidan" contains these words: Yeah, and you can bet DoT doesn't do so with new cars, either. I keep meaning to ask Last Word where the break even point is between scrapping a moderately efficient old car and building a new more efficient one. I can't believe it's always better to scrap old cars just 'cos they're less efficient. I've never been convinced of that either but am always shouted down! And what superhuman could manage that ? -- geoff |
#19
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"dennis@home" wrote in message . uk... "Aidan" wrote in message oups.com... I doubt that my new boiler will last the 40 years it's predecessor did. I'm spending a lot less on gas though. Your lucky then.. I estimate that I would save at most £5pm over what my 25 year old boiler uses. It will take a long time to save the cost of a new "modern" boiler. A 90% plus condensing boiler will drop your bills ~40% over an old cast-iron job. If it is only £5 a month then you don't use much gas. Or the system has been poorly installed. |
#20
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Britains' oldest boiler..
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words: It was a surprise to us too but I didn't think anyone else would notice. It was sent about three weeks ago. You and Yours have done that to me a couple of times, too. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#21
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... "dennis@home" wrote in message . uk... "Aidan" wrote in message oups.com... I doubt that my new boiler will last the 40 years it's predecessor did. I'm spending a lot less on gas though. Your lucky then.. I estimate that I would save at most £5pm over what my 25 year old boiler uses. It will take a long time to save the cost of a new "modern" boiler. A 90% plus condensing boiler will drop your bills ~40% over an old cast-iron job. If it is only £5 a month then you don't use much gas. Or the system has been poorly installed. Or its a 25 year old, low water content boiler with a copper heat exchanger which works at about 80%+ efficiency with a proper control system with timer/stats on each zone. It heats the house and all the hot water too. |
#22
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Aidan" wrote in message oups.com... Andy Hall wrote: The author has made the typical confusion between combi and condensing boilers. He may have. I think it more likely that he meant exactly what he said; "...........that some 40 per cent of today's energy-efficient combination boilers break down within the first year" I spent some time trying to steer a relative away from a combi. They're more complex than the equivalent system boiler and just have more parts to go wrong. The relative lives in a hard water area. You don't know much about boilers then. A combi is a system boiler with a water section added. Some are clearly not complex at all. Look at the link for the Atmos I gave. It shows the innards of the heat exchanger. The DHW is just another coil in the heat exchanger; the small red tube. It doesn't even have a 3-way valve, acting like a multi-point. You have to know the market and what is on offer and most of all understand the technologies behind it. |
#23
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"dennis@home" wrote in message . uk... "Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... "dennis@home" wrote in message . uk... "Aidan" wrote in message oups.com... I doubt that my new boiler will last the 40 years it's predecessor did. I'm spending a lot less on gas though. Your lucky then.. I estimate that I would save at most £5pm over what my 25 year old boiler uses. It will take a long time to save the cost of a new "modern" boiler. A 90% plus condensing boiler will drop your bills ~40% over an old cast-iron job. If it is only £5 a month then you don't use much gas. Or the system has been poorly installed. Or its a 25 year old, low water content boiler with a copper heat exchanger which works at about 80%+ efficiency with a proper control system with timer/stats on each zone. It heats the house and all the hot water too. You got the best of breed 25 years ago, which is not representative of 25 year old boilers. |
#24
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Britains' oldest boiler..
tarquinlinbin wrote:
Non of yer new fangled condensing malarky here. I even spotted a relay valve and weepline stat on one of them!. http://www.oldestboiler.co.uk/ view the pdf book. I assume theyre trying to soften customers up for a new boiler. Putting a 17 yr old boiler in there is simply daft. And they dont seem to have done their research too good, I could have pointed them to a 1930s boiler still in use, and I'm not in the trade. Mind you I suspect people still running ancients are in no rush to draw attention ot the fact. NT |
#26
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"john2" wrote in message ... If I were to sign up to a contract from Powergen, they would take my money in a hurry, say my 30 yr+ Glowworm couldn't be repaired at the first hint of a problem, then charge £2000+ to install a completely new but unreliable one. You get what you pay for. Fit a cheap and nasty boiler and it is unreliable. Fit a Glow Worm condenser (Vaillant made in Holland), Vaillant (made in Holland and Germany), Viessmann (Germany), Atmos (Holland), ACV (Belgium), Eco-Hometec (Germany), Quantum (England)etc and they last and last and rarely go wrong. If you buy a Ladas of the boilers then don't complain. Granted that the new one is more energy efficient, it could take 10yrs to recoupe the outlay, after allowing for an essential service contract in the meantime. 10 years? As they drop your bills by 30-40% that will be quite quick, and as fuel keeps rising, quicker than you think. So until the old boiler becomes unrepairable, or I move house, it is definitely staying there. A foolish view. |
#27
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Britains' oldest boiler..
In article ,
Guy King writes: You and Yours have done that to me a couple of times, too. They read out an email I sent them, only a few minutes after I sent it. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#28
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Britains' oldest boiler..
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#29
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Britains' oldest boiler..
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:55:14 GMT, Guy King
wrote: The message from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words: You and Yours have done that to me a couple of times, too. They read out an email I sent them, only a few minutes after I sent it. And they've done /that/ to me a couple of times as well! Havnig them ring up and ask if you'll do an interview is odd though. Trying to get the kids to shut up long enough is the hard bit. Hmm.. I've always found that getting the interviewer to shut up for long enough was harder.... -- ..andy |
#30
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Britains' oldest boiler..
Mary Fisher wrote:
"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message ... I thought it was me ... Mary I was about to make that point and claim my £5.. |
#31
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Britains' oldest boiler..
Doctor Drivel wrote: I spent some time trying to steer a relative away from a combi. They're more complex than the equivalent system boiler and just have more parts to go wrong. The relative lives in a hard water area. You don't know much about boilers then. Oh dear. I know enough to know that they didn't want a combi. 1.5 bar max mains pressure, very hard water, large house; only an idiot would install a combi. A combi is a system boiler with a water section added. A combi is a combi and is not a system boiler. Some are clearly not complex at all. Look at the link for the Atmos I gave. Yeah, thank s for that recommendation, Dr. Drivel. (Makes mental note, avoid recommended boiler like a very virulent & incurable plague). |
#32
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Mary Fisher wrote: "tarquinlinbin" wrote in message ... I thought it was me ... Mary I was about to make that point and claim my £5.. I knew somebody would, that's why I got in first! I'll spend the£5 for you :-) Mary |
#33
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:55:14 GMT, Guy King wrote: The message from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words: You and Yours have done that to me a couple of times, too. They read out an email I sent them, only a few minutes after I sent it. And they've done /that/ to me a couple of times as well! Havnig them ring up and ask if you'll do an interview is odd though. Trying to get the kids to shut up long enough is the hard bit. Hmm.. I've always found that getting the interviewer to shut up for long enough was harder.... You've been 'done' by Humphrys? -- .andy |
#34
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Britains' oldest boiler..
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: One might expect it in the press - even the Telegraph doesn't always get things right - but one would have hoped that a journal purporting to explain science could do a bit better than this. I well remember the Telegraph reporting a major equipment theft from a BBC TV Centre control room I discovered - being the first one of the crew in that day. They simply made up 95% of the article. That was many years ago, but facts never got in the way of a good story for any paper. Of course that was years ago. -- *What was the best thing before sliced bread? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#35
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Britains' oldest boiler..
The message
from Andy Hall contains these words: Hmm.. I've always found that getting the interviewer to shut up for long enough was harder.... I don't let 'em get a word in edgeways. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#36
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Britains' oldest boiler..
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: A 90% plus condensing boiler will drop your bills ~40% over an old cast-iron job. If it is only £5 a month then you don't use much gas. Or the system has been poorly installed. This is, as usual, total crap from dribble. My brother had a BF BE floorstander with cast iron heat exchanger replaced by a condenser after BG said they couldn't maintain it anymore under their service contract. 18% saving in gas costs - and take my word for it he knows how to work these things out accurately. The replacement breaks down at least twice a year. And is broken at this moment leaving them with no heating or hot water for 4 days - really useful in the NE of Scotland. Of course if it stays broken this could well make the gas saving of 40% that dribble says. -- *Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#37
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Britains' oldest boiler..
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I well remember the Telegraph reporting a major equipment theft from a BBC TV Centre control room I discovered - being the first one of the crew in that day. They simply made up 95% of the article. That was many years ago, but facts never got in the way of a good story for any paper. Of course that was years ago. Nothing changes, the Daily Mail edited a letter I wrote to them complaining about their misreporting of the pre-announcement of VED changes in this year's budget, removed all references to their misreporting and incompetence and published it on their website, so heavily cut and altered I can scarcely recognise it. The Radio Times once published my name as a competition winner, never gave me the prize and refused to answer any correspondence relating to the subject. "Horizon" misrepresented my research and refused to publish a retraction or even an explanation. The latest press reports on the work I do at present are so biased/misunderstood that they are effectively worthless. |
#38
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Britains' oldest boiler..
Mary Fisher wrote:
You've been 'done' by Humphrys? "Feedback" on Radio 4 read out a sycophantic email from a "Mary Fisher" recently, I would sue them if I were you, it made the sender sound like a brainless schoolgirl and people may assume it was you. |
#39
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Andy Hall wrote: One might expect it in the press - even the Telegraph doesn't always get things right - but one would have hoped that a journal purporting to explain science could do a bit better than this. I well remember the Telegraph reporting a major equipment theft from a BBC TV Centre control room I discovered - being the first one of the crew in that day. They simply made up 95% of the article. That was many years ago, but facts never got in the way of a good story for any paper. Of course that was years ago. Of course. -- *What was the best thing before sliced bread? Real bread. |
#40
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Britains' oldest boiler..
"Guy King" wrote in message ... The message from Andy Hall contains these words: Hmm.. I've always found that getting the interviewer to shut up for long enough was harder.... I don't let 'em get a word in edgeways. You are John Humphrys and I claim my £5. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..I SAID YOU ARE JOHN HUMPHRYS AND I CLAIM MY £5 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. If you'll let me finish .... -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
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