On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:56:59 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


Have you ever weighed a full fuel tank -£50s worth?. Per weight modern
state-of-the-art batteries pack a hell of a lot of energy. These batteries
are not available in volume yet.

Have you ever considered the energy in a fuel tank - say £50 worth?
Now compare that to "modern state-of-the-art batteries"

They don't even come within the same order of magnitude.


--

"dennis@home" wrote in message
. uk...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
. uk...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Now if the hydrogen were produced by solar/wind it would be good.

Good thinking me boy. But do you know how much energy it takes to
crack
it?

Electrolysis me boy.
water into hydrogen and oxygen.

That is the process. I said "do you know how much energy it takes to
crack
it?"

Not much.
9V DC will do it (you can try with a pp3 battery if you like).

If that is the case then we would be cracking water at point use, like in an
engine bay, and using it to drives cars and heat our homes. Strange in that
is not the case.

The fact is that the energy to crack it is more than what useful energy you
get from hydrogen.

That is the holy grail, to cheaply crack hydrogen, once that is solved then
the enrgy crisis os over for good.

Try again.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
through a haze of senile flatulence writes
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is the mag that said a Prius did 26mpg.

That's the overall figure they got including maximum speed testing - a
total distance of about 1000 miles. Dreadful isn't it? And Toyota didn't
argue. If it wasn't typical under those circumstances they'd have
submitted another car for test.

No one else has managed to get less than 50mpg yet.

It only managed 42 mpg on a gentle touring route. Worse than cars with
much better performance which cost far less.

Maybe the wind was blowing

Maxie, many this have blown into the wind from Mr Cranium.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
wrote:

So am I right in thinking that (roughly speaking) for continuous running
a
conventional system is more efficient, whereas doing a lot of shuffling
along in heavy traffic a hybrid can be better? Has anyone done the
figures

Quite probably. The prius gains some efficency from running the IC
engine in a non standard cycle that would usually be too lumpy to drive
with a conventional drive train, but then it also has to move all the
electric baggage about as well.

And less a gearbox as it does have a heavy transmission (gearbox). That is
why they get over 60mpg

So in stop start conditions where it can accumulate surplus energy in
the electrics, it gets to spread out the demands on the IC engine, and
can (short term) produce more power than is available from the engine
alone. So good in city situations.

During sustained performance oriented driving however it will get hit
with the multiple whammy ofnot being able to sustain significant output
from the electric motor, carrying the baggage, and being forced to
divert a significant proportion of IC engines output to maintaining
battery charge (which must never be allowed to fall too low since the
enitre operation of the car depends on having electric motor power to
blend with the IC engine output since this is how the planatary gear
setup achieves the CVT).

Nonsense as usual. It can do 100mph, and cruise along with the rest of them
at high speed. No CVT, no gearbox

(for current production technology conventional and hybrids) to work out
which would be better averaged out over national traffic patterns? In
other
words, if you were to replace the entire national car fleet overnight
with
equivalent hybrids would net fuel consumption increase or decrease?

It is a good question. I would expect the answer is "increase" since in
the real world you don't get something for nothing.

More absolute nonsense! This new groups breeds them. The "average" is
around 60mpg in the "real world", about "twice" what an equivalent sized car
would be getting. How real do you want this world to be? Why don't you ask
me and I will tell you. I have a Prius. You haven't a clue have you?

"Dave Plowman (News)" through haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
wrote:

Only while there's some battery charge. Once that is exhausted, the
petrol engine is effectively driving the wheels direct, but via a
generator and electric motor or some form of split drive. Hence the
poor consumption under those conditions.

So am I right in thinking that (roughly speaking) for continuous running
a conventional system is more efficient, whereas doing a lot of
shuffling along in heavy traffic a hybrid can be better?

Yes - with lots of stop start stuff obviously an electric motor which
doesn't idle will be more efficient *at that time*. Of course if you want
heating or air-con, this will make a big difference.

Has anyone done the figures (for current production technology
conventional and hybrids) to work out which would be better averaged out
over national traffic patterns? In other words, if you were to replace
the entire national car fleet overnight with equivalent hybrids would
net fuel consumption increase or decrease?

Autocar have a standard test route over which they take all the cars they
test. It's about 30 miles long and involves a mixture of suburban high
streets and 50 mph highways. The Prius managed 42 mpg over this journey.
Almost exactly the same as a BMW 330D - a very fast diesel. Any other
small diesel - Focus etc - is nearer 60 mpg over the same route.

Autocar are full of crap. A lousy mag too. They must be paid by advertisers
to rubbish the car (no uncommon, look at what they did to the rear engined
Skodas), as no Prius owner gets figures anywhere near that low, all
averaging around 60mpg.

"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:56:59 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Have you ever weighed a full fuel tank -£50s worth?. Per weight modern
state-of-the-art batteries pack a hell of a lot of energy. These
batteries
are not available in volume yet.

Have you ever considered the energy in a fuel tank - say £50 worth?
Now compare that to "modern state-of-the-art batteries"

They don't even come within the same order of magnitude.

Lord Hall, ever considered the pollution in that tank?

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is the mag that said a Prius did 26mpg.

That's the overall figure

Which is ******** Mr Cranium. Most owners are getting an ave' of 60mpg.
Anyone withy any brain can do a Goggle and then feedback is around 60mpg
from all sources, not just some third rate car mag.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

From a Prius owner who posted on this news group: "After driving a
Prius, driving any kind of manual diesel vehicle feels like stepping
onto a Fordson tractor."

Then the man's a fool.

The man is not a fool at all, he is very bright. The Prius is a great fun
car to drive. It isn't no tractor.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

If someone want's seamless and silent comfort I suggest they would buy
a 'luxury car', not a weird compromise?

I agree. That is why I bought a Prius.

To go with your DB6?

Yep.

** snip senile jealous senility **

Such a bitter old *******!!! Yeah!!!!

In article ,
Matt wrote:
Have you ever weighed a full fuel tank -£50s worth?. Per weight modern
state-of-the-art batteries pack a hell of a lot of energy. These
batteries are not available in volume yet.

Have you ever considered the energy in a fuel tank - say £50 worth?
Now compare that to "modern state-of-the-art batteries"

They don't even come within the same order of magnitude.

Nor will any rechargeable battery ever. Dribble just believes in magic.
The ad man's dream.

--
*According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:51:05 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This is the mag that said a Prius did 26mpg.

That's the overall figure they got including maximum speed testing - a
total distance of about 1000 miles. Dreadful isn't it? And Toyota didn't
argue. If it wasn't typical under those circumstances they'd have
submitted another car for test.

No one else has managed to get less than 50mpg yet.

It only managed 42 mpg on a gentle touring route. Worse than cars with
much better performance which cost far less.

Maybe the wind was blowing

Or the rising flood water from the council estate became a significant
factor :-) Just look at what happened last time he attempted some
plumbing!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/290000...7_flood300.jpg



--

"Dave Plowman (News)" through haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Matt aka Lord Hall wrote:

Have you ever weighed a full fuel tank -£50s worth?. Per weight modern
state-of-the-art batteries pack a hell of a lot of energy. These
batteries are not available in volume yet.

Have you ever considered the energy in a fuel tank - say £50 worth?
Now compare that to "modern state-of-the-art batteries"

They don't even come within the same order of magnitude.

Alos look at the space tank takes up.

Nor

** snip senile drivel **

"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:51:05 GMT, the enchanted raden
wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
through a haze of senile flatulence writes
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is the mag that said a Prius did 26mpg.

That's the overall figure they got including maximum speed testing - a
total distance of about 1000 miles. Dreadful isn't it? And Toyota didn't
argue. If it wasn't typical under those circumstances they'd have
submitted another car for test.

No one else has managed to get less than 50mpg yet.

It only managed 42 mpg on a gentle touring route. Worse than cars with
much better performance which cost far less.

Maybe the wind was blowing

Or the rising flood water from the council estate became a significant
factor :-) Just look at what happened last time he attempted some
plumbing!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/290000...7_flood300.jpg

Lord Hall, is that funny? Please give advance warning of Lord Hall funnies.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Nonsense as usual. It can do 100mph, and cruise along with the rest of
them at high speed.

At 24 mpg. See decent road tests.

No CVT, no gearbox

It has an epicyclic gearbox that acts as a CVT.

Ask your nurse to explain basic mechanics to you.

--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It is a good question. I would expect the answer is "increase" since in
the real world you don't get something for nothing.

More absolute nonsense! This new groups breeds them. The "average" is
around 60mpg in the "real world", about "twice" what an equivalent sized
car would be getting.

Read some real world testing of the vehicle done under scientific
conditions.

How real do you want this world to be? Why don't you ask me and I will
tell you. I have a Prius.

That will be the one which sits on the mantelpiece?

You haven't a clue have you?

See your nurse for some anti-lying tablets.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Autocar are full of crap. A lousy mag too. They must be paid by
advertisers to rubbish the car (no uncommon, look at what they did to
the rear engined Skodas),

So you had a rear engined Skoda too? Figures.

as no Prius owner gets figures anywhere near
that low, all averaging around 60mpg.

Around being nearer 40 if used as other cars.

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This is the mag that said a Prius did 26mpg.

That's the overall figure

Which is ******** Mr Cranium. Most owners are getting an ave' of 60mpg.
Anyone withy any brain can do a Goggle and then feedback is around 60mpg
from all sources, not just some third rate car mag.

Yes. My petrol automatic BMW does over 40 mpg. Everyone always remembers
the best figure. You especially - it's all you ever quote.

--
*A day without sunshine is like... night.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
From a Prius owner who posted on this news group: "After driving a
Prius, driving any kind of manual diesel vehicle feels like stepping
onto a Fordson tractor."

Then the man's a fool.

The man is not a fool at all, he is very bright. The Prius is a great fun
car to drive. It isn't no tractor.

So it can't pull a plough through a muddy field? What a rubbish car.

--
*When you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
If someone want's seamless and silent comfort I suggest they would
buy a 'luxury car', not a weird compromise?

I agree. That is why I bought a Prius.

To go with your DB6?

Yep.

** snip senile jealous senility **

Such a bitter old *******!!! Yeah!!!!

But I thought you traded in your DB6 for a rear engined Skoda? Or am I
confusing your fantasies?

--
*Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Have you ever considered the energy in a fuel tank - say £50 worth?
Now compare that to "modern state-of-the-art batteries"

They don't even come within the same order of magnitude.

Alos look at the space tank takes up.

So you're suggesting there are batteries around that not only store more
energy than petrol but also take up less space? Is this on the planet Zog?

Of course your 'Prius' doesn't have a petrol tank. Or batteries. You don't
need them on top of the mantelpiece.

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Nonsense as usual. It can do 100mph, and cruise along with the rest of
them at high speed.

At 24 mpg.

Averages 60mpg, oh senile one. This is fun.

See decent road tests.

No need as I have one.

No CVT, no gearbox

It has an

** snip all the senility for everyone ***

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

It is a good question. I would expect the answer is "increase" since
in
the real world you don't get something for nothing.

More absolute nonsense! This new groups breeds them. The "average" is
around 60mpg in the "real world", about "twice" what an equivalent sized
car would be getting.

Read

Oh senile one, I have one...60mpg....

** snip senility ***

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is the mag that said a Prius did 26mpg.

That's the overall figure

Which is ******** Mr Cranium. Most owners are getting an ave' of 60mpg.
Anyone withy any brain can do a Goggle and then feedback is around 60mpg
from all sources, not just some third rate car mag.

Yes.

That is right. yes.

*** snip senility **

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

From a Prius owner who posted on this news group: "After driving a
Prius, driving any kind of manual diesel vehicle feels like stepping
onto a Fordson tractor."

Then the man's a fool.

The man is not a fool at all, he
is very bright. The Prius is a great fun
car to drive. It isn't no tractor.

So it can't pull a plough through a muddy field? What a rubbish car.

This is sad isn't it. Very sad. He does need attention.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

If someone want's seamless and silent comfort I suggest they would
buy a 'luxury car', not a weird compromise?

I agree. That is why I bought a Prius.

To go with your DB6?

Yep.

** snip senile jealous senility **

Such a bitter old *******!!! Yeah!!!!

But I thought you traded in your DB6 for a rear engined Skoda?

My God, isn't it terrible. Such stupid senile babble. I blame Thatcher for
the likes of him.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Nonsense as usual. It can do 100mph, and cruise along with the rest of
them at high speed.

At 24 mpg.

Averages 60mpg, oh senile one. This is fun.

So it averages 60 mpg at 100 mph? Do you know what average means? Ask your
nurse.

Hint. Hybrid vehicles are less economical at high speeds than conventional
ones. Their real advantage is in stop start town traffic. Where you should
be on a bus.

--
*All generalizations are false.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Have you ever considered the energy in a fuel tank - say £50 worth?
Now compare that to "modern state-of-the-art batteries"

They don't even come within the same order of magnitude.

Alos look at the space tank takes up.

So

** snip senility **

I wonder if he watched Ballamory this morning.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Yet, and that they do. The hybrid is regarded as a stop-gap before fuel
cells come in. Battery technology have leaped and some Prius cars with
larger battery packs are getting 130mpg.

Stop telling lies, dribble.


I think this 130mpg figure comes from "charge batteries (from mains or
engine), drive 130 miles, see that you have used 1 gallon of fuel,
assume this means 130mpg". What you have actually done is 130
miles-per-(gallon of petrol plus whatever was used to charge the
batteries). Not the same.

In article .com,
Matt Beard wrote:
I think this 130mpg figure comes from "charge batteries (from mains or
engine), drive 130 miles, see that you have used 1 gallon of fuel,
assume this means 130mpg". What you have actually done is 130
miles-per-(gallon of petrol plus whatever was used to charge the
batteries). Not the same.

Yup. This is exactly how it fiddles the combined figure. No-one has ever
got near it in practice.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
They keep on saying these have arrived. But the idea of using a petrol
engine is purely for the US where there is a great resistance to deisel.

They are legally proscribed in some States because of the carcinogenicity
of the emissions.

Including commercial vehicles and trains, etc?

--
*Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
Matt Beard wrote:
I think this 130mpg figure comes from "charge batteries (from mains or
engine), drive 130 miles, see that you have used 1 gallon of fuel,
assume this means 130mpg". What you have actually done is 130
miles-per-(gallon of petrol plus whatever was used to charge the
batteries). Not the same.

Yup. This is exactly how it fiddles the combined figure. No-one has ever
got near it in practice.

Same with how they fiddle the urban and extra-urban miles in government
tests. They always start the tests fully charged.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
Hint. Hybrid vehicles are less economical at high speeds than
conventional ones. Their real advantage is in stop start town traffic.
Where you should be on a bus.

God forbid.

It would be a virtual one for dribble, though. He's not allowed out of the
locked ward.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Nonsense as usual. It can do 100mph, and cruise along with the rest of them
at high speed. No CVT, no gearbox

sigh

YOu show yourself to be resistant to learning. The Prius has a gearbox,
Toyota themselves have described it as "CVT".

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Alos look at the space tank takes up.

Hmm, so that's energy density as yet another subject that Drivel doesn't
understand.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This is the mag that said a Prius did 26mpg.
That's the overall figure

Which is ******** Mr Cranium. Most owners are getting an ave' of 60mpg.
Anyone withy any brain can do a Goggle and then feedback is around 60mpg
from all sources, not just some third rate car mag.

Yes. My petrol automatic BMW does over 40 mpg. Everyone always remembers
the best figure. You especially - it's all you ever quote.

Pah feeble, when driven under the same conditions as Drivel puts forward
for a Prius I have managed to get a reported 99mpg for a supercharged
Jaguar over a distance of 30km[1].



[1] From the St Gotthard pass to Chiasso[2].
[2] A quick glance at a map will clarify how this was achieved.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

If someone want's seamless and silent comfort I suggest they would buy
a 'luxury car', not a weird compromise?
I agree. That is why I bought a Prius.
To go with your DB6?

Yep.

Could you just clarify for me which switch on the DB6 dash disengages
traction control?

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

If someone want's seamless and silent comfort I suggest they would buy
a 'luxury car', not a weird compromise?
I agree. That is why I bought a Prius.
To go with your DB6?

Yep.

Could you just clarify for me which switch on the DB6 dash disengages
traction control?

Do they go to such detail on Dinky toys?

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Nonsense as usual. It can do 100mph, and cruise along with the rest
of
them at high speed.

At 24 mpg.

Averages 60mpg, oh senile one. This is fun.

So it averages 60 mpg

yep

** snip senile babble **

"Huge" wrote in message
...
Andy Dingley writes:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:00:20 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Very interesting article about this flawed concept in Autocar this week

There's nothing wrong with the concept, we just need better batteries.

Err, no. The concept is totally flawed.

I isn't. If it moves pollution I hope it moves it over stupid country
bumpkins.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Very interesting article about this flawed concept in Autocar this
week

There's nothing wrong with the concept, we just need better batteries.

** snip senile drivel **

They are legally proscribed in some States because of the carcinogenicity
of the emissions.

...and they get 60mpg too. Amazing isn't it.