Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.

--
Jim

Tyneside - North East of England
To email me directly omit the X from my address

Jim Scott wrote:
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.

why go the library?

http://tinyurl.com/8b2xl

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ben wrote:

Jim Scott wrote:
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.

why go the library?

http://tinyurl.com/8b2xl

'Cos it's less hassle and/or cheaper. Yes, I know it's a free trial - but
there will be lots of pressure to continue into the not-free future - and
you will be black-listed if you decline.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Jim Scott wrote:
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.

If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-)
http://www.ciao.co.uk/Vacuum_Cleaners_5266504_3-kirby

I've had one for 12 years which I bought in a car boot and the only thing
that's took the knock in that time is the belt, however it's now needing
new brushes. :-)

Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ben wrote:

Jim Scott wrote:
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.

why go the library?

http://tinyurl.com/8b2xl

'Cos it's less hassle and/or cheaper. Yes, I know it's a free trial -
but there will be lots of pressure to continue into the not-free
future - and you will be black-listed if you decline.

I just use a blouse email addy regards to sites like this, then delete the
addy and create another one if spam is evident from them. :-)

Huge wrote:
"ben" writes:
Jim Scott wrote:
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.

why go the library?

http://tinyurl.com/8b2xl

Why read "Which?"

I don't, He does?

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:12:27 GMT, "ben" wrote:

If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-)
http://www.ciao.co.uk/Vacuum_Cleaners_5266504_3-kirby

I've had one for 12 years which I bought in a car boot and the only thing
that's took the knock in that time is the belt, however it's now needing
new brushes. :-)


Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a
salesman round.

In our Office we've had a "Henry" cylinder-oid vac that has done
sterling service over 15 years.

Huge (in this group) heartily recomends the SEBO, which every day, you
don't see.

SWMBO saw an OREC on QVC she fancied, and I said EUREKA, that's it !
"That's that Vac with the funny name I've forgotten" so we ended up
with an OREC. 8-(

However, no complaints. It's very powerful and very light, and came
with a free minivac, but quite noisy.

DG

Most cleaning companies use a Numatic because they make some of the
cheapest and longest lasting vacum cleaner.

http://www.numatic.co.uk/

Most cleaning companies use a Numatic because they make some of the
cheapest and longest lasting vacum cleaner.

http://www.numatic.co.uk/

Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a
salesman round.

But if you do, make sure your better half/spouse/partner is there as well
otherwise they go ape ****, throw their teddy out of the pram and snatch
the free gift back G Great Fun !!!

Dave

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:00:40 UTC, dave stanton wrote:


Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a
salesman round.

But if you do, make sure your better half/spouse/partner is there as well
otherwise they go ape ****, throw their teddy out of the pram and snatch
the free gift back G Great Fun !!!

And then, arrange the seating so that, with salesman as S, husband as H,
and wife as W, the angle subtended by H-S-W is a nice obtuse one (say
about 140 degrees). Puts them off wonderfully.

On 21 Aug 2005 17:12:57 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:00:40 UTC, dave stanton wrote:


Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a
salesman round.

But if you do, make sure your better half/spouse/partner is there as well
otherwise they go ape ****, throw their teddy out of the pram and snatch
the free gift back G Great Fun !!!

And then, arrange the seating so that, with salesman as S, husband as H,
and wife as W, the angle subtended by H-S-W is a nice obtuse one (say
about 140 degrees). Puts them off wonderfully.


Diversions are good as well. If you have a small mobile phone, set
it up to call the home landline with one button dialling. Secrete
phone in pocket. Press the button and go and answer the phone at key
moments.

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:
On 21 Aug 2005 17:12:57 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:00:40 UTC, dave stanton wrote:


Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a
salesman round.

But if you do, make sure your better half/spouse/partner is there as well
otherwise they go ape ****, throw their teddy out of the pram and snatch
the free gift back G Great Fun !!!

And then, arrange the seating so that, with salesman as S, husband as H,
and wife as W, the angle subtended by H-S-W is a nice obtuse one (say
about 140 degrees). Puts them off wonderfully.


Diversions are good as well. If you have a small mobile phone, set
it up to call the home landline with one button dialling. Secrete
phone in pocket. Press the button and go and answer the phone at key
moments.

"Hello Dad"
"No, we've just got a Kirby salesman in".
"I diddn't know you had one"
"It did what!"
"And how many were killed?"

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:12:27 GMT, "ben" wrote:


If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-)

Only GBP1,500 for an old fashioned quite unreliable heavy vacuum
cleaner with indifferent performance. Only someone who is seriously
demented or vulnerable to their dire sales technique would do this.

I do enjoy Kirby salesdroids though, I've had several and had them
vacuum my car and several rooms. They tended to target my elderly
neighbours so I usually invited the neighbours over for tea and went
to their house to deal with the Kirbys myself. There is nothing more
satisfying than having a plastic suited junior Kirby Dellboy
salestoad and his "area manageress" sweating as you tell them they
have missed a bit on the carpet for the fourth time and you are
really interested in what they have to sell.

My record is keeping a pair of them for 6 hours and having half a
house cleaned by the junior salesdroid whilst the "manager" made ever
more desperate offers to do complex deals.

They go through their whole sorry scare story about bugs about to eat
you and then you can say you are really impressed - and will buy one
from the USA for $500 the next day.

Well you might, but it isn't even worth $50 never mind $500.

Unfortunately the whole close and adjoining streets no longer seem to
get their attention, it seems to have become a kirbyfree zone. Most
disappointing.





--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Jim Scott wrote:

Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
: bagless vs bagged.

Hi Jim
Upright vs cylinder

Uprights are 100% better at cleaning carpet than tubs (cylinder) vacs, but
they are a one trick pony. They excell in open areas but can't cope with
stairs, the sofa, the car etc. The SEBO is without doubt the best - forget
Kirby or VK - overpriced ****e which is pressure sold.

A tub or cylinder vac is hugely versatile; carpet, hard floor, stairs,
walls, upholstery, the car, DIY etc. Numatic is far and away the best
deal - contract cleaners use nothing else because they just go on and on,
withstand all sorts of abuse and are very cheap & easy to repair.

You can buy a powered floor tool for a Numatic either driven by the airflow
or a separate motor - then you have the best of both worlds - the cleaning
ability of an upright and the versatility of a cylinder.

: bagless vs bagged.

Don't fall for the 'bagless, no reduction in suction' cobblers. True,
bagless cyclone vacs don't lose suction as they fill, but they have a
suction level so low that a nearly full bagged Numatic still has better
suction.

Also, a bag is an additional filter, so less dust escapes into the
atmosphere, easy & clean to empty as well and the cost of bags is very low.
Best of all go for a Numatic with HEPA filtration (high efficiency
particulate air). Virtually nothing gets through these filters so after a
few weeks you can completely forget having to do any dusting.

Something like the Henry Xtra HVX200-22 with its air driven brush or the
Henry Micro HVR200M-22 with 99% efficient at 0.8 of a micron. Henry Turbo
HVR200T-2 has a power brush.

No commercial connection with SEBO or Numatic. Just 30 years in the game.

Dave

Peter Parry wrote:
There is nothing more
satisfying than having a plastic suited junior Kirby Dellboy
salestoad and his "area manageress" sweating as you tell them they
have missed a bit on the carpet for the fourth time and you are
really interested in what they have to sell.

Peter you are a wicked ******* and I salute you!!!

My record is keeping a pair of them for 6 hours and having half a
house cleaned by the junior salesdroid whilst the "manager" made ever
more desperate offers to do complex deals.

I can't equal that, but I did once drive a VK "area manageress" almost to
tears by showing her my British Institute of Cleaning Science Instructors
Certificate :-) and destroying every sales argument she had.

They go through their whole sorry scare story about bugs about to eat
you and then you can say you are really impressed - and will buy one
from the USA for $500 the next day.

VK are available through the trade at 75% less than the direct sales
assholes want.

Unfortunately the whole close and adjoining streets no longer seem to
get their attention, it seems to have become a kirbyfree zone. Most
disappointing.

I have some Jehovahs going spare if you want to wind them up? They get
confused when I keep asking who God is as though I've never heard of him
before.

Dave

Excellent.
Thanks.

--
Jim
Tyneside UK

"david lang" wrote:

Don't fall for the 'bagless, no reduction in suction' cobblers. True,
bagless cyclone vacs don't lose suction as they fill, but they have a
suction level so low that a nearly full bagged Numatic still has better
suction.

To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various
cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle
and the corresponding air flow for:

a) a bagless cyclone
b) a nearly full bagged Numatic
c) an empty Numatic

--

"Jim Scott" wrote in message
.99...
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.


Miele cat and dog.

Miele constantly get recommended by Which.
I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains.
Superbly engineered, bought GF one too.
They are the dogs bs.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:17:23 +0100, JP wrote:

"Jim Scott" wrote in message
.99...
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review?
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets.
Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged.


Miele cat and dog.

Miele constantly get recommended by Which.
I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains.
Where?

--
Jim
Tyneside UK

In article ,
JP wrote:

Miele cat and dog.

Miele constantly get recommended by Which.
I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains.
Superbly engineered, bought GF one too.
They are the dogs bs.


My parents bought one of these - nice but the "bag full" sensor seems rather
sensitive (in that it nearly always claims the bag is full...)

Have they got a duff one or are they all like this?

Darren

On Mon, 22 Aug 05 10:52:24 GMT, dmc wrote:

Miele cat and dog.

Miele constantly get recommended by Which.
I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains.
Superbly engineered, bought GF one too.
They are the dogs bs.


Finally got to the library and 'Which'.
Yer right. Miele does come out top followed by Bosch.

Plus all uprights are worse than cylinders.
Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking.
The new hoover 'The One' is worse then a brush and should not be bought
under any circumstances.

No mention of 'Henry' anywhere.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK

In article ,
Matt writes:
"david lang" wrote:

Don't fall for the 'bagless, no reduction in suction' cobblers. True,
bagless cyclone vacs don't lose suction as they fill, but they have a
suction level so low that a nearly full bagged Numatic still has better
suction.

To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various
cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle
and the corresponding air flow for:

That measure is rather meaningless. The measurement accepted by
the industry is "suction power" as defined in IEC Standard 60312.
There is however a recognised problem with this measurement.
Bagged cleaners are all measured with new empty bags, which is
not at all representitive of their performance other than for
the first few seconds. Actual performance during most use is
much lower (there's an initial rapid drop and then a steady
decline), and a representitve figure is to half the quoted figure.
Another problem is the figure fails to take into account
how effective a bag is. Cloth bags generally don't drop off as
fast as paper bags, because they chuck much more of the dust out
in the air exhaust, so it doesn't block them.

For a cyclone cleaner, the "suction power" doesn't significantly
drop off. Instead, what happens as they get near full is that the
cyclone stops filtering as well. If they get over-full preventing
the cyclone operating, they then fall back to operating as a
filtered vacuum cleaner using the post-cyclone filters.

So the "suction power" figures are quite heavily biased to favour
bagged cleaners.

a) a bagless cyclone

280 airwatts

b) a nearly full bagged Numatic
c) an empty Numatic

Numatic don't quote "suction power" figures (from which you might
wonder if they aren't prowd of theirs). A top end bagged cleaner
is ~400 airwatts with a new bag, 200 airwatts after a few seconds
of use (better for cloth bags, but that's because they're chucking
all the finer dust out in the air exhaust), and probably somewhere
well under 100 airwatts when bag is getting full, or if you have
sucked up any fine dust which has been trapped in the cleaner.

One tip with a bagged cleaner -- If you are going to suck up any
fine dust (like plaster dust), do not empty the bag first. The
household dust already in the bag will act as a much larger area
filter for the finer dust, delaying it blocking the bag pores.
Conversely, a cyclone cleaner will work better if you empty it
first, and empty it again before it gets full.

In theory, cyclone cleaners should be clear winners. The extracted
dust is removed from the air path whereas with a bag/cloth filter,
it is clearly trapped directly in the air path. What has held
cyclones back is that they work best when they are dustbin sized
and upwards. Getting one to work in something the size of a portable
domestic vacuum cleaner is a challenge, although Dyson seem to have
largely mastered it.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Jim Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Aug 05 10:52:24 GMT, dmc wrote:

Miele cat and dog.

Miele constantly get recommended by Which.
I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains.
Superbly engineered, bought GF one too.
They are the dogs bs.


Finally got to the library and 'Which'.
Yer right. Miele does come out top followed by Bosch.

Plus all uprights are worse than cylinders.
Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking.
The new hoover 'The One' is worse then a brush and should not be bought
under any circumstances.

No mention of 'Henry' anywhere.
nor should a Dyson, constantly slammed in NG I mentioned.

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Matt writes:
"david lang" wrote:

Don't fall for the 'bagless, no reduction in suction' cobblers. True,
bagless cyclone vacs don't lose suction as they fill, but they have a
suction level so low that a nearly full bagged Numatic still has better
suction.

To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various
cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle
and the corresponding air flow for:

That measure is rather meaningless. The measurement accepted by
the industry is "suction power" as defined in IEC Standard 60312.

Thanks for that but "suction power" (how the hell did that get adopted
as an IEC standard!) is *precisely* why I concentrated on what to my
mind really matters, - the air volume at the nozzle and the pressure,
these taken both in the as new state and in an aged state after
passing a certain volume of air laden with a specified mass of dust.
Combine this with the maximum size of particulate at the air exit and
the mass of dust retained by the machine and you don't need anything
else to know what's better. All the parameters are measurable and
you'd only need some dust and carpet - to IEC/ISO standard of course
:-)

I use a Numatic in the workshop and a Dyson in the house but they stay
where they belong. I've found the Numatic is less than useless for
normal household use as despite having a newish bag the dust it passes
is appalling - but its fine on wood chips and swarf. The Dyson which
would quickly get knackered in the workshop is perfect in the house

"airwatts" would have James Watt turning in his grave


--

Jim Scott wrote:

Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking.

You see loads of them down the council dump but I'd hazard a guess
that the vast majority are simple blockages that the brain dead users
fail to clear because they never read the manual. I've seen pikeys
eyes light up at the sight and watched them cart them off by the car
load - probably resurrecting them and selling them for a good profit
down the car boots.

My parents have an original DC01 - 12 years old this year, its had
half a dozen belts and recently the mains cable fatigued where it
enters the strain relief grommet - but apart from that its been
faultless. It gets used (make that abused!) every day - previous
cleaners from all the usual suspects have lasted 2-3 years

I'd not trust anything Which said though - at times they are about as
believable as a Dixons salesman.


--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
Jim Scott wrote:

Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking.

You see loads of them down the council dump but I'd hazard a guess
that the vast majority are simple blockages that the brain dead users
fail to clear because they never read the manual. I've seen pikeys
eyes light up at the sight and watched them cart them off by the car
load - probably resurrecting them and selling them for a good profit
down the car boots.

Read other NGs
the vast majoirty are dumped becuase they are sick and tired of repairing
the crap, at hugely inflated spare prices.

My parents have an original DC01 - 12 years old this year, its had
half a dozen belts and recently the mains cable fatigued where it
enters the strain relief grommet - but apart from that its been
faultless.

ROFL
Nice definition of faultless.

It gets used (make that abused!) every day - previous
cleaners from all the usual suspects have lasted 2-3 years

I'd not trust anything Which said though - at times they are about as
believable as a Dixons salesman.

Which reports on reliability are what their thousands and thousand of
subscribers tell them.
They are telling them repeatedly in each survey
Dyson pile of Sh!te
Miele the best

In article ,
Matt writes:
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Matt writes:
To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various
cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle
and the corresponding air flow for:

That measure is rather meaningless. The measurement accepted by
the industry is "suction power" as defined in IEC Standard 60312.

Thanks for that but "suction power" (how the hell did that get adopted
as an IEC standard!) is *precisely* why I concentrated on what to my
mind really matters, - the air volume at the nozzle and the pressure,

That's what "suction power" is -- the vacuum pressure multiplied by
the air flow. Neither the vacuum nor the airflow are meaningful by
themselves -- a vacuum pump and a large desk fan would have better
individual ratings than a vacuum cleaner, but are useless at cleaning
floors.

these taken both in the as new state and in an aged state after
passing a certain volume of air laden with a specified mass of dust.

As I said before, unfortunately the standard fails to take into
account the rapid drop off of bagged cleaners.

Combine this with the maximum size of particulate at the air exit and
the mass of dust retained by the machine and you don't need anything
else to know what's better. All the parameters are measurable and
you'd only need some dust and carpet - to IEC/ISO standard of course
:-)

Well, there's also a "pick-up performance" measurement, which includes
a measurement of the effectiveness of the pick-up head and brush bar
if relevant.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"dmc" wrote in message ...
In article ,
JP wrote:

Miele cat and dog.

Miele constantly get recommended by Which.
I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains.
Superbly engineered, bought GF one too.
They are the dogs bs.


My parents bought one of these - nice but the "bag full" sensor seems
rather
sensitive (in that it nearly always claims the bag is full...)

Have they got a duff one or are they all like this?

They maybe using a far higher power setting than is actually needed.
I've only once used the 1600 setting, for the carpet, Usually the 1300 with
the turbo brush is fine.
It needs only 600 or 900 for the smaller tools.
I've never used the 2000 setting, but I've noticed if you do wick the power
too far the bag full sensor can move across.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:


In theory, cyclone cleaners should be clear winners. The extracted
dust is removed from the air path whereas with a bag/cloth filter,
it is clearly trapped directly in the air path. What has held
cyclones back is that they work best when they are dustbin sized
and upwards. Getting one to work in something the size of a portable
domestic vacuum cleaner is a challenge, although Dyson seem to have
largely mastered it.


By all accounts, Dyson can make them *work* - but not work *reliably*!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote:


"airwatts" would have James Watt turning in his grave

Presumably the distance a particle of dust travels in the cyclone before
being deposited is measured in Air Miles? g
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:44:40 UTC, Jim Scott
wrote:

Finally got to the library and 'Which'.

No mention of 'Henry' anywhere.

Well (much as I hate to agree with whoever said it (if it was 'huge')),
that's why Which is not always a good thing to rely on. Useful for
information sometimes, though..

Matt wrote:

To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various
cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle
and the corresponding air flow for:

a) a bagless cyclone
b) a nearly full bagged Numatic
c) an empty Numatic

Not off hand - but trust me :-)

Dave

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

That's what "suction power" is -- the vacuum pressure multiplied by
the air flow. Neither the vacuum nor the airflow are meaningful by
themselves -- a vacuum pump and a large desk fan would have better
individual ratings than a vacuum cleaner, but are useless at cleaning
floors.

In practice you cant have vacuum pressure and airflow at the same time.

In actual application it's airflow that's important, not vacuum and this
varies with the 'final aperture' size. Essentially a 32mm hose gives more
suction/less airflow than a 36mm hose. Using two motors in parrallel leaves
the suction the same but nearly doubles airflow - which is why twin motor
vacs pick up better.

Vacuum pumps are actually used to clean floors - some American manufacturers
of carpet cleaning machines, usually truck mounted, use vacuum pumps rather
than vacuum turbines to achieve better water recovery rates

Combine this with the maximum size of particulate at the air exit and
the mass of dust retained by the machine and you don't need anything
else to know what's better.

Depends on the filter and if it can easily be cleaned or not.

Dave

Set Square wrote:

By all accounts, Dyson can make them *work* - but not work *reliably*!

All too true. I know a guy who runs the largest vac repair shop in the
south east. He has a room full of dead Dysons and loves them to bits - he
makes a load of money repairing them and selling spare parts.

Dave

"JP" wrote:

My parents have an original DC01 - 12 years old this year, its had
half a dozen belts and recently the mains cable fatigued where it
enters the strain relief grommet - but apart from that its been
faultless.

ROFL
Nice definition of faultless.

A belt every couple of years and a mains cable flexed around 30000
times before it partially failed is close to faultless as is
reasonable. I'd hazard a guess (based on their domestic appliance
purchase and repair costs) a Miele equivalent would have cost the same
or more in spares and capital costs over that same period.

Which reports on reliability are what their thousands and thousand of
subscribers tell them.

They are reporting exactly what Which readers want to hear. The
customers who are most satisfied get on with life and don't ****
around writing to the ******* at the CA. For instance the cars they
recommend are 100% guaranteed to be the most anodyne, soulless,
plastic laden, over soundproofed machines you are ever likely to
encounter. If you are Mr and Mrs Average of 32 Acacia Gardens,
Chipping Upper Bucket, Dronesville, doing exactly 12000 miles a year
with 2.4 kids and 0.8 labradors this will suit you to a tee. I'd even
suspect they would say the Prius has the lowest fuel consumption and
fastest acceleration of any car in the world while having no gearbox
and the most satisfied owners.

They are telling them repeatedly in each survey
Dyson pile of Sh!te
Miele the best

Through a member of the family I could obtain any Miele product at
virtually cost price. Nothing I saw or read before or since convinced
me to change from a Dyson, In fact we bought another one a few months
ago for our other property.


--

"david lang" wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

That's what "suction power" is -- the vacuum pressure multiplied by
the air flow. Neither the vacuum nor the airflow are meaningful by
themselves -- a vacuum pump and a large desk fan would have better
individual ratings than a vacuum cleaner, but are useless at cleaning
floors.

In practice you cant have vacuum pressure and airflow at the same time.

Don't, whatever you do, ever consider flying. Go by bus instead, the
physics are far less complicated.


--

In article , Peter Parry
URL:mailto
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:12:27 GMT, "ben" wrote:


If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-)

Only GBP1,500 for an old fashioned quite unreliable heavy vacuum
cleaner with indifferent performance. Only someone who is seriously
demented or vulnerable to their dire sales technique would do this.

Overpriced I would agree with, but only because of the MLM type of
organisation. The rest of your comment I would seriously disagree with. The
performance is startling, reliability is excellent and it is only heavy if
not adjusted correctly. There are many 20+ year old machines still working
perfectly. I have one 25 years old and it is used for workshop mess as well
as more domestic duties.





--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

david lang wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

That's what "suction power" is -- the vacuum pressure multiplied by
the air flow. Neither the vacuum nor the airflow are meaningful by
themselves -- a vacuum pump and a large desk fan would have better
individual ratings than a vacuum cleaner, but are useless at cleaning
floors.

In practice you cant have vacuum pressure and airflow at the same time.

As the other poster has suggested, real physics are more complex

Basically, pressure differences cause airflow.
In the case of an absolute vacuum, if you have a hole with a vacuum on
one side, then the air will enter it at about the speed of sound.

Usually vacuum cleaners don't suck quite so hard.

When you partially obstruct the hose of the vacuum, then if the vacuum
inside remains the same, the airflow drops.

Take the insides out of a ballpoint pen, and play with obstructing the
end with your finger, while sucking.


In practice, the vacuum cleaner pump has a curved performance graph.
If you were to plot the pressure drop it's working against with airflow,
it starts off at zero pressure drop at the maximum airflow, and drops
to zero airflow at some pressure drop at which the pump can't do any more.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"JP" wrote:

My parents have an original DC01 - 12 years old this year, its had
half a dozen belts and recently the mains cable fatigued where it
enters the strain relief grommet - but apart from that its been
faultless.

ROFL
Nice definition of faultless.

A belt every couple of years and a mains cable flexed around 30000
times before it partially failed is close to faultless as is
reasonable. I'd hazard a guess (based on their domestic appliance
purchase and repair costs) a Miele equivalent would have cost the same
or more in spares and capital costs over that same period.

Miele's are tested to last 20 years.
e.g. The hose is tested 120, 000 times with a 5kg weight, telescopic wand
10,000 times etc etc.

Which reports on reliability are what their thousands and thousand of
subscribers tell them.

They are reporting exactly what Which readers want to hear. The
customers who are most satisfied get on with life and don't ****
around writing to the ******* at the CA. For instance the cars they
recommend are 100% guaranteed to be the most anodyne, soulless,
plastic laden, over soundproofed machines you are ever likely to
encounter. If you are Mr and Mrs Average of 32 Acacia Gardens,
Chipping Upper Bucket, Dronesville, doing exactly 12000 miles a year
with 2.4 kids and 0.8 labradors this will suit you to a tee. I'd even
suspect they would say the Prius has the lowest fuel consumption and
fastest acceleration of any car in the world while having no gearbox
and the most satisfied owners.

Another classic!
Nothing but an idiotic rant.
Read you 1st sentence again.
Funny how loads of people on other NG's, electrical repairers, and many
other non Which subscribers say exaclty the same.
That Dysons are utter sh!te.

They are telling them repeatedly in each survey
Dyson pile of Sh!te
Miele the best

Through a member of the family I could obtain any Miele product at
virtually cost price. Nothing I saw or read before or since convinced
me to change from a Dyson, In fact we bought another one a few months

ago for our other property.
Translation
My Dyson didn't last long.
I'm so narrow minded that I know a dyson is better than a model, I haven't
tried.

ROFL.

There's nothing like a Dyson owner in denial.
Famed for their open mindedness.

Fortunately I've had both models and the difference in
quality/reliabilty/engineering/perfomance is chalk and cheese, so I'm
speaking here from knowledge which is more than you can.
Enjoy repairing your crappy Dyson.