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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Vacuum cleaner blew up!
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest
'Which' review? Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged. -- Jim Tyneside - North East of England To email me directly omit the X from my address |
#2
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Jim Scott wrote:
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest 'Which' review? Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged. why go the library? http://tinyurl.com/8b2xl |
#3
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ben wrote: Jim Scott wrote: Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest 'Which' review? Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged. why go the library? http://tinyurl.com/8b2xl 'Cos it's less hassle and/or cheaper. Yes, I know it's a free trial - but there will be lots of pressure to continue into the not-free future - and you will be black-listed if you decline. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
#4
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Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, ben wrote: Jim Scott wrote: Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest 'Which' review? Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged. why go the library? http://tinyurl.com/8b2xl 'Cos it's less hassle and/or cheaper. Yes, I know it's a free trial - but there will be lots of pressure to continue into the not-free future - and you will be black-listed if you decline. I just use a blouse email addy regards to sites like this, then delete the addy and create another one if spam is evident from them. :-) |
#5
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Jim Scott wrote:
Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest 'Which' review? Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged. If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-) http://www.ciao.co.uk/Vacuum_Cleaners_5266504_3-kirby I've had one for 12 years which I bought in a car boot and the only thing that's took the knock in that time is the belt, however it's now needing new brushes. :-) |
#6
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:12:27 GMT, "ben" wrote:
If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-) http://www.ciao.co.uk/Vacuum_Cleaners_5266504_3-kirby I've had one for 12 years which I bought in a car boot and the only thing that's took the knock in that time is the belt, however it's now needing new brushes. :-) Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a salesman round. In our Office we've had a "Henry" cylinder-oid vac that has done sterling service over 15 years. Huge (in this group) heartily recomends the SEBO, which every day, you don't see. SWMBO saw an OREC on QVC she fancied, and I said EUREKA, that's it ! "That's that Vac with the funny name I've forgotten" so we ended up with an OREC. 8-( However, no complaints. It's very powerful and very light, and came with a free minivac, but quite noisy. DG |
#7
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Most cleaning companies use a Numatic because they make some of the
cheapest and longest lasting vacum cleaner. http://www.numatic.co.uk/ |
#8
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Most cleaning companies use a Numatic because they make some of the
cheapest and longest lasting vacum cleaner. http://www.numatic.co.uk/ |
#9
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Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a salesman round. But if you do, make sure your better half/spouse/partner is there as well otherwise they go ape ****, throw their teddy out of the pram and snatch the free gift back G Great Fun !!! Dave |
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:00:40 UTC, dave stanton wrote:
Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a salesman round. But if you do, make sure your better half/spouse/partner is there as well otherwise they go ape ****, throw their teddy out of the pram and snatch the free gift back G Great Fun !!! And then, arrange the seating so that, with salesman as S, husband as H, and wife as W, the angle subtended by H-S-W is a nice obtuse one (say about 140 degrees). Puts them off wonderfully. |
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On 21 Aug 2005 17:12:57 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:00:40 UTC, dave stanton wrote: Yes, but don't whatever you do call Kirby, and let them send a salesman round. But if you do, make sure your better half/spouse/partner is there as well otherwise they go ape ****, throw their teddy out of the pram and snatch the free gift back G Great Fun !!! And then, arrange the seating so that, with salesman as S, husband as H, and wife as W, the angle subtended by H-S-W is a nice obtuse one (say about 140 degrees). Puts them off wonderfully. Diversions are good as well. If you have a small mobile phone, set it up to call the home landline with one button dialling. Secrete phone in pocket. Press the button and go and answer the phone at key moments. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#12
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:12:27 GMT, "ben" wrote:
If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-) Only GBP1,500 for an old fashioned quite unreliable heavy vacuum cleaner with indifferent performance. Only someone who is seriously demented or vulnerable to their dire sales technique would do this. I do enjoy Kirby salesdroids though, I've had several and had them vacuum my car and several rooms. They tended to target my elderly neighbours so I usually invited the neighbours over for tea and went to their house to deal with the Kirbys myself. There is nothing more satisfying than having a plastic suited junior Kirby Dellboy salestoad and his "area manageress" sweating as you tell them they have missed a bit on the carpet for the fourth time and you are really interested in what they have to sell. My record is keeping a pair of them for 6 hours and having half a house cleaned by the junior salesdroid whilst the "manager" made ever more desperate offers to do complex deals. They go through their whole sorry scare story about bugs about to eat you and then you can say you are really impressed - and will buy one from the USA for $500 the next day. Well you might, but it isn't even worth $50 never mind $500. Unfortunately the whole close and adjoining streets no longer seem to get their attention, it seems to have become a kirbyfree zone. Most disappointing. -- Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/ |
#13
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Peter Parry wrote:
There is nothing more satisfying than having a plastic suited junior Kirby Dellboy salestoad and his "area manageress" sweating as you tell them they have missed a bit on the carpet for the fourth time and you are really interested in what they have to sell. Peter you are a wicked ******* and I salute you!!! My record is keeping a pair of them for 6 hours and having half a house cleaned by the junior salesdroid whilst the "manager" made ever more desperate offers to do complex deals. I can't equal that, but I did once drive a VK "area manageress" almost to tears by showing her my British Institute of Cleaning Science Instructors Certificate :-) and destroying every sales argument she had. They go through their whole sorry scare story about bugs about to eat you and then you can say you are really impressed - and will buy one from the USA for $500 the next day. VK are available through the trade at 75% less than the direct sales assholes want. Unfortunately the whole close and adjoining streets no longer seem to get their attention, it seems to have become a kirbyfree zone. Most disappointing. I have some Jehovahs going spare if you want to wind them up? They get confused when I keep asking who God is as though I've never heard of him before. Dave |
#14
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In article , Peter Parry
URL:mailto On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:12:27 GMT, "ben" wrote: If you can get your hands on a Kirby...buy it. :-) Only GBP1,500 for an old fashioned quite unreliable heavy vacuum cleaner with indifferent performance. Only someone who is seriously demented or vulnerable to their dire sales technique would do this. Overpriced I would agree with, but only because of the MLM type of organisation. The rest of your comment I would seriously disagree with. The performance is startling, reliability is excellent and it is only heavy if not adjusted correctly. There are many 20+ year old machines still working perfectly. I have one 25 years old and it is used for workshop mess as well as more domestic duties. -- AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk |
#15
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Jim Scott wrote:
Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. : bagless vs bagged. Hi Jim Upright vs cylinder Uprights are 100% better at cleaning carpet than tubs (cylinder) vacs, but they are a one trick pony. They excell in open areas but can't cope with stairs, the sofa, the car etc. The SEBO is without doubt the best - forget Kirby or VK - overpriced ****e which is pressure sold. A tub or cylinder vac is hugely versatile; carpet, hard floor, stairs, walls, upholstery, the car, DIY etc. Numatic is far and away the best deal - contract cleaners use nothing else because they just go on and on, withstand all sorts of abuse and are very cheap & easy to repair. You can buy a powered floor tool for a Numatic either driven by the airflow or a separate motor - then you have the best of both worlds - the cleaning ability of an upright and the versatility of a cylinder. : bagless vs bagged. Don't fall for the 'bagless, no reduction in suction' cobblers. True, bagless cyclone vacs don't lose suction as they fill, but they have a suction level so low that a nearly full bagged Numatic still has better suction. Also, a bag is an additional filter, so less dust escapes into the atmosphere, easy & clean to empty as well and the cost of bags is very low. Best of all go for a Numatic with HEPA filtration (high efficiency particulate air). Virtually nothing gets through these filters so after a few weeks you can completely forget having to do any dusting. Something like the Henry Xtra HVX200-22 with its air driven brush or the Henry Micro HVR200M-22 with 99% efficient at 0.8 of a micron. Henry Turbo HVR200T-2 has a power brush. No commercial connection with SEBO or Numatic. Just 30 years in the game. Dave |
#16
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Excellent.
Thanks. -- Jim Tyneside UK |
#17
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"david lang" wrote:
Don't fall for the 'bagless, no reduction in suction' cobblers. True, bagless cyclone vacs don't lose suction as they fill, but they have a suction level so low that a nearly full bagged Numatic still has better suction. To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle and the corresponding air flow for: a) a bagless cyclone b) a nearly full bagged Numatic c) an empty Numatic -- |
#18
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In article ,
Matt writes: "david lang" wrote: Don't fall for the 'bagless, no reduction in suction' cobblers. True, bagless cyclone vacs don't lose suction as they fill, but they have a suction level so low that a nearly full bagged Numatic still has better suction. To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle and the corresponding air flow for: That measure is rather meaningless. The measurement accepted by the industry is "suction power" as defined in IEC Standard 60312. There is however a recognised problem with this measurement. Bagged cleaners are all measured with new empty bags, which is not at all representitive of their performance other than for the first few seconds. Actual performance during most use is much lower (there's an initial rapid drop and then a steady decline), and a representitve figure is to half the quoted figure. Another problem is the figure fails to take into account how effective a bag is. Cloth bags generally don't drop off as fast as paper bags, because they chuck much more of the dust out in the air exhaust, so it doesn't block them. For a cyclone cleaner, the "suction power" doesn't significantly drop off. Instead, what happens as they get near full is that the cyclone stops filtering as well. If they get over-full preventing the cyclone operating, they then fall back to operating as a filtered vacuum cleaner using the post-cyclone filters. So the "suction power" figures are quite heavily biased to favour bagged cleaners. a) a bagless cyclone 280 airwatts b) a nearly full bagged Numatic c) an empty Numatic Numatic don't quote "suction power" figures (from which you might wonder if they aren't prowd of theirs). A top end bagged cleaner is ~400 airwatts with a new bag, 200 airwatts after a few seconds of use (better for cloth bags, but that's because they're chucking all the finer dust out in the air exhaust), and probably somewhere well under 100 airwatts when bag is getting full, or if you have sucked up any fine dust which has been trapped in the cleaner. One tip with a bagged cleaner -- If you are going to suck up any fine dust (like plaster dust), do not empty the bag first. The household dust already in the bag will act as a much larger area filter for the finer dust, delaying it blocking the bag pores. Conversely, a cyclone cleaner will work better if you empty it first, and empty it again before it gets full. In theory, cyclone cleaners should be clear winners. The extracted dust is removed from the air path whereas with a bag/cloth filter, it is clearly trapped directly in the air path. What has held cyclones back is that they work best when they are dustbin sized and upwards. Getting one to work in something the size of a portable domestic vacuum cleaner is a challenge, although Dyson seem to have largely mastered it. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#19
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#20
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In article ,
Matt writes: (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , Matt writes: To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle and the corresponding air flow for: That measure is rather meaningless. The measurement accepted by the industry is "suction power" as defined in IEC Standard 60312. Thanks for that but "suction power" (how the hell did that get adopted as an IEC standard!) is *precisely* why I concentrated on what to my mind really matters, - the air volume at the nozzle and the pressure, That's what "suction power" is -- the vacuum pressure multiplied by the air flow. Neither the vacuum nor the airflow are meaningful by themselves -- a vacuum pump and a large desk fan would have better individual ratings than a vacuum cleaner, but are useless at cleaning floors. these taken both in the as new state and in an aged state after passing a certain volume of air laden with a specified mass of dust. As I said before, unfortunately the standard fails to take into account the rapid drop off of bagged cleaners. Combine this with the maximum size of particulate at the air exit and the mass of dust retained by the machine and you don't need anything else to know what's better. All the parameters are measurable and you'd only need some dust and carpet - to IEC/ISO standard of course :-) Well, there's also a "pick-up performance" measurement, which includes a measurement of the effectiveness of the pick-up head and brush bar if relevant. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#21
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt wrote: "airwatts" would have James Watt turning in his grave Presumably the distance a particle of dust travels in the cyclone before being deposited is measured in Air Miles? g -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
#22
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andrew Gabriel wrote: In theory, cyclone cleaners should be clear winners. The extracted dust is removed from the air path whereas with a bag/cloth filter, it is clearly trapped directly in the air path. What has held cyclones back is that they work best when they are dustbin sized and upwards. Getting one to work in something the size of a portable domestic vacuum cleaner is a challenge, although Dyson seem to have largely mastered it. By all accounts, Dyson can make them *work* - but not work *reliably*! -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
#23
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Set Square wrote:
By all accounts, Dyson can make them *work* - but not work *reliably*! All too true. I know a guy who runs the largest vac repair shop in the south east. He has a room full of dead Dysons and loves them to bits - he makes a load of money repairing them and selling spare parts. Dave |
#24
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Matt wrote:
To eliminate the possibility of confusion on the merits of the various cleaners could you quote the minimum pressure achieved at the nozzle and the corresponding air flow for: a) a bagless cyclone b) a nearly full bagged Numatic c) an empty Numatic Not off hand - but trust me :-) Dave |
#25
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"Jim Scott" wrote in message .99... Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest 'Which' review? Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged. Miele cat and dog. Miele constantly get recommended by Which. I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains. Superbly engineered, bought GF one too. They are the dogs bs. |
#26
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:17:23 +0100, JP wrote:
"Jim Scott" wrote in message .99... Any recommendations prior me going to the library to read the latest 'Which' review? Victorian terrace house - lots of stairs - lots of carpets. Upright vs cylinder : bagless vs bagged. Miele cat and dog. Miele constantly get recommended by Which. I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains. Where? -- Jim Tyneside UK |
#27
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In article ,
JP wrote: Miele cat and dog. Miele constantly get recommended by Which. I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains. Superbly engineered, bought GF one too. They are the dogs bs. My parents bought one of these - nice but the "bag full" sensor seems rather sensitive (in that it nearly always claims the bag is full...) Have they got a duff one or are they all like this? Darren |
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On Mon, 22 Aug 05 10:52:24 GMT, dmc wrote:
Miele cat and dog. Miele constantly get recommended by Which. I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains. Superbly engineered, bought GF one too. They are the dogs bs. Finally got to the library and 'Which'. Yer right. Miele does come out top followed by Bosch. Plus all uprights are worse than cylinders. Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking. The new hoover 'The One' is worse then a brush and should not be bought under any circumstances. No mention of 'Henry' anywhere. -- Jim Tyneside UK |
#29
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Jim Scott wrote:
Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking. You see loads of them down the council dump but I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority are simple blockages that the brain dead users fail to clear because they never read the manual. I've seen pikeys eyes light up at the sight and watched them cart them off by the car load - probably resurrecting them and selling them for a good profit down the car boots. My parents have an original DC01 - 12 years old this year, its had half a dozen belts and recently the mains cable fatigued where it enters the strain relief grommet - but apart from that its been faultless. It gets used (make that abused!) every day - previous cleaners from all the usual suspects have lasted 2-3 years I'd not trust anything Which said though - at times they are about as believable as a Dixons salesman. -- |
#30
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"Matt" wrote in message ... Jim Scott wrote: Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking. You see loads of them down the council dump but I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority are simple blockages that the brain dead users fail to clear because they never read the manual. I've seen pikeys eyes light up at the sight and watched them cart them off by the car load - probably resurrecting them and selling them for a good profit down the car boots. Read other NGs the vast majoirty are dumped becuase they are sick and tired of repairing the crap, at hugely inflated spare prices. My parents have an original DC01 - 12 years old this year, its had half a dozen belts and recently the mains cable fatigued where it enters the strain relief grommet - but apart from that its been faultless. ROFL Nice definition of faultless. It gets used (make that abused!) every day - previous cleaners from all the usual suspects have lasted 2-3 years I'd not trust anything Which said though - at times they are about as believable as a Dixons salesman. Which reports on reliability are what their thousands and thousand of subscribers tell them. They are telling them repeatedly in each survey Dyson pile of Sh!te Miele the best |
#31
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"Jim Scott" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Aug 05 10:52:24 GMT, dmc wrote: Miele cat and dog. Miele constantly get recommended by Which. I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains. Superbly engineered, bought GF one too. They are the dogs bs. Finally got to the library and 'Which'. Yer right. Miele does come out top followed by Bosch. Plus all uprights are worse than cylinders. Dyson are the best uprights but keep breaking. The new hoover 'The One' is worse then a brush and should not be bought under any circumstances. No mention of 'Henry' anywhere. nor should a Dyson, constantly slammed in NG I mentioned. |
#32
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:44:40 UTC, Jim Scott
wrote: Finally got to the library and 'Which'. No mention of 'Henry' anywhere. Well (much as I hate to agree with whoever said it (if it was 'huge')), that's why Which is not always a good thing to rely on. Useful for information sometimes, though.. |
#33
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"dmc" wrote in message ... In article , JP wrote: Miele cat and dog. Miele constantly get recommended by Which. I got one after many recs on NG consumer uk discounts and bargains. Superbly engineered, bought GF one too. They are the dogs bs. My parents bought one of these - nice but the "bag full" sensor seems rather sensitive (in that it nearly always claims the bag is full...) Have they got a duff one or are they all like this? They maybe using a far higher power setting than is actually needed. I've only once used the 1600 setting, for the carpet, Usually the 1300 with the turbo brush is fine. It needs only 600 or 900 for the smaller tools. I've never used the 2000 setting, but I've noticed if you do wick the power too far the bag full sensor can move across. |
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