"Huge" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
In the case of congestion charging, which is where this started, the
real issue is outmoded business culture which insists on putting
people physically in one place and a city centre of all places to do
their work.

Hmm. Despite modern systems making communication from any distance easy,
personal contact is still an important thing in business of the type
where
trust may be involved. Thinking of City of London type things.

I fear your thinking is somewhat out of date. Since electronic trading
became
the norm, investment banks could literally be anywhere.

Yes, since 1986. He is little slow you know.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
What balls. Ken L, runs London. If he ran the government he would ban,
or tax to the hilt, polluting cars. A part of his job is to keep
London's air clean, and he attacks that in a way that is becoming more
effective.

Buses and taxis are among the worst polluters in London. Why hasn't he
done something about that?

He has.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

You said load - that means bending down to pick up sprog to load it into
the vehicle.

Bending down outside the car to pick up said sprog is not the bit where
you do yourself a mischief though. Its the bending over leaning into the
car.

And you said associated kit ...

More load space...

Than what? Than an estate?

(it was no coincidence that when we replaced SWMBO's 2+2 coupé with a
large estate car, it was within a year of the arrival of the second
sprog).

But wriggling two year olds aren't the only sprogs. Most sprogs - in my
long experience - like to load themselves into a vehicle. The extra
height of a

Yup, ours load and unload themselves - can't manage the seat belts /
harnesses though.

Oh dear, a bit backward are they?

;-)

high modern vehicle makes it more difficult for them. We have a son who
has one, his daughters have to climb, inelegantly, into the back. They're
far too big to be lifted by their parents.

Once they get to that size, I doubt it matters much... they seem pretty
keen of climbing anything anywhere ISTM ;-)

But it would be EASIER to get into a lower vehicle.


It wasn't an advantage when we had children and a Thames. We had to lift
the small ones in. The bigger ones used the step. Of course, we didn't
have

That was Ford's small van before they introduced the transit IIUC?

Ours was the mini-bus version. Ten seats.

child seats in those days (works of the devil) but in any case it was
easy

Having child seats or not having them?

sigh Since you've snipped I don't know the reference.

And how many can - in any vehicle, of either sex (or none)?

Statistically speaking probably none of us if being totally honest. Some
are obviously more aware of these things than other though.


That's not defined by sex.

Did not intend to imply it was...

No, but women's lack of spatial awareness was mentioned.

One of the siller male misapprehensions.

There are some drivers (men and women) who seem to have little clue about
appropriate driving behaviour in reaction to different conditions.

Indeed.

And it's nothing to do with the type of vehicle one is driving.

It is partly - in the sense you need to be aware of any special factors
about the vehicle that will affect how it behaves should something
unexpected happen.

That applies to whatever vehicle you're driving. A scooter is very different
from a tractor, that doesn't mean that you can't driver either efficiently.

Mary

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

What is the other name for bike riders...? oh yes that was it "organ
donors" ;-)

That's not worthy of you.

Mary

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
raden wrote:

Wouldn't ABS (and or Traction Control) take care of that John, even in
the wet?

Porches are well known for losing it in wet conditions

In fact the 4WD one (928 was it?) - is quite well known as a widowmaker.
They even insist you go on their driving course before they will sell you
one!

Surely, on uk.d-i-y you don't buy a porch, you build it.

Mary

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:

They may be, but are not representative of real life driving.

They are.

You don't know much about cars either then?

I know all things about cars

And given just how poor the Prius turned
out to be,

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a gearbox, just
one planetary gear assembly.

Which is a gearbox.

It isn't. There are no stepped gears or pullies with belts. You just don't
know.

Many other makers have licenced the Toyota
drivetrain.

Licences are taken out on all sorts of things,
but get no further than that.

The new Ford Escape in the USA uses it. You just don't know

The overall MPG was appalling. Beaten by every other similar size and
performance diesel.

Total balls. Alos the car emits 90% less polution than other cars.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?long_t...story.php...56

"The Prius's fuel consumption has also provided us with a few smiles. To
date, it has averaged an amazing 60.8mpg - an Auto Express long-termer
record."

Yes, 60.8mpg

You just don't know anything at all. Sad but true.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

I've seen 60 mpg instantaneous fuel conspumption on my 3.5 litre petrol
automatic.

I can show him 99MPG+ from my 2.9i Granada. However it averages 25ish.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a gearbox, just
one plaetary gear assembly.

Whereas a gearbox is what?

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

Buses and taxis are among the worst polluters in London. Why hasn't he
done something about that?

I can feel myself ascending one of my soapboxes. :-)

Public transport can be brought to a halt on a whim. Private transport
cannot. Therefore control freaks like lefties hate the motorist.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:

They may be, but are not representative of real life driving.

They are.

You don't know much about cars either then?

I know all things about cars

And given just how poor the Prius turned
out to be,

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a gearbox,
just
one planetary gear assembly.

Which is a gearbox.

It isn't. There are no stepped gears or pullies with belts. You just
don't
know.

Many other makers have licenced the Toyota
drivetrain.

Licences are taken out on all sorts of things,
but get no further than that.

The new Ford Escape in the USA uses it. You just don't know

The overall MPG was appalling. Beaten by every other similar size and
performance diesel.

Total balls. Alos the car emits 90% less polution than other cars.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?long_t...story.php...56

"The Prius's fuel consumption has also provided us with a few smiles. To
date, it has averaged an amazing 60.8mpg - an Auto Express long-termer
record."

Yes, 60.8mpg

You just don't know anything at all. Sad but true.

Here is the AutoExpress web site:
http://tinyurl.com/cwj4p

From the AutoExpress site:

"How do you turn an eco-friendly 56mpg car into an even greener 130mpg one?
Plug it in! Toyota once said that the great thing about the petrol-electric
hybrid Prius was you didn't have to charge it via the mains."

Now you can do both (don't charge from the mains and if you want charge
overnight cheaply) and get 130mpg if you charge overnight.

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

I've seen 60 mpg instantaneous fuel conspumption on my 3.5 litre petrol
automatic.

I can show him 99MPG+ from my 2.9i Granada. However it averages 25ish.

I can show you averages over 60 and now over 135mpg.

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a gearbox,
just
one plaetary gear assembly.

Whereas a gearbox is what?

Shifting ratios between cogs. The Prius doesn't do this or have a CVT which
has pullies and a belt. Just a simple assemmbly.

It has no mechanical transmission. No mechanism to shift gears or wind
pullies in and out. It is very simple. You need to look more and understand
how a planetary system works. There is no ratio selection. It is simpler
than a normal car. No complex power sapping transmission, juts a planetary
gear assembly, which
just turns, as do bearings. The "complexity" is people not understanding
it.

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

Buses and taxis are among the
worst polluters in London. Why hasn't he
done something about that?

I can feel myself ascending one of my soapboxes. :-)

Public transport can be brought to a halt on a whim. Private transport
cannot. Therefore control freaks like lefties hate the motorist.

Your ridiculous statement has nothing at all to do this pollution. You are
mad and confused. Sad but true.

In article ,
PC Paul wrote:
Once again, and repeat it 10 times now, Autocar got 55mpg in central
London.
There, there.

And I got 999.9 mpg coming down Snake Pass.

Over the *whole* journey I got 22mpg.

If you have the misfortune to read much of Drivel's rubbish over the
years, a pattern emerges. He never gives average or worst case results -
or even a possible spread. Everything has to be the very highest result to
back up his half baked theories. And usually from exaggerated adverts, or
totally out of context. Like the 55 mpg from the Prius in London. Hence
you get combis that 'fill' a bath quickly. But the bath is tiny and the
water tepid. You get boilers with more than 100% efficiency. You get snake
oil products like magnetic water softeners that work.

The list is near endless.

IMM was a better title. From a fantasy world.

--
*Cover me. I'm changing lanes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Pete C wrote:

Isn't global warming like meddling with the planet and it's climate on
a fairly big scale?


The evidence that global warming is caused by human activities is far
from conclusive.


--
Grunff

In article ,
Pete C wrote:
They may be, but are not representative of real life driving. And given
just how poor the Prius turned out to be, one can only assume the
software etc was tweaked for optimum results *for these tests*
Otherwise, how do you explain an overall figure of 23 MPG in an Autocar
test? No other car I can find is so far away from the 'official'
figures.

Web reference?

Buy a copy. All their test results are summarised at the back and
explanations of how they're arrived at.

Do you really believe Autocar alone? I used to get 42mpg combined from a
hatchback so claiming a Prius does 23 is absolutely laughable.

No - this figure of 23 mpg was for the duration of the Autocar test.

In the same way as the 'official' fuel consumption figures aren't meant to
be an absolute but a comparison, so are Autocar's. Because no test can
ever reproduce *your* actual driving conditions or style.
But checking the tables of overall consumption that Autocar gets with
every car can be interesting. For example, a Rover 75 2 litre deisel -
hardly an economy hatch - they got 33 mpg average for the duration of the
test.

Very few cars will be used only for out of town journeys, most cars
will be urban/combined.

Yup. Autocar have a test route designed to simulate this and put every
car they test over it. The Prius still did badly - considering its
claims.

See this real life test, quotes 58mpg over the first 1000 miles:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=135

Have you actually read the article? He was trying as hard as possible to
get the very best MPG. And under those conditions many would manage more
with a small diesel.

Read the subsequent parts about motorway consumption.

--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a gearbox,
just
one plaetary gear assembly.

Whereas a gearbox is what?

Shifting ratios between cogs. The Prius doesn't do this or have a CVT
which
has pullies and a belt. Just a simple assemmbly.

It has no mechanical transmission. No mechanism to shift gears or wind
pullies in and out. It is very simple. You need to look more and
understand
how a planetary system works. There is no ratio selection. It is simpler
than a normal car. No complex power sapping transmission, juts a
planetary
gear assembly, which
just turns, as do bearings. The "complexity" is people not understanding
it.


OK, Thanks for the suggestion, I know it all now. Interesting. G

The Prius planetary gear works like a flattened out differential where the
two 'halfshafts' are driven by the petrol engine and the electric motor
driving the wheels, and the 'driveshaft' takes power to the generator.

So by varying the relative speeds of the petrol engine (by throttle) and
electric motor (by speed controller) you can get almost any ratio you like
from reverse to full ahead, and any power split between wheels and
generator... Nice.

Try here for a simulation
http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet_e.html or here for a nice
explanation in diff terms
http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyotaPrius/SideBars/PsdLikeDiff.htm

In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The Prius batteries are about 2K. No one has bought a set yet, and no
one woprld wide has had a set replaved under the 8 years guarantee. The
average life expectancy is 12 years.

Strange. The new Lexus RX400 (made by Toyota and using the latest hybrid
technology) has a 5 year warranty on its battery pack. Now you'd expect a
45,000 quid vehicle to come with as good a warranty as a cheaper one for
something like this?

--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
Hmm. Despite modern systems making communication from any distance
easy, personal contact is still an important thing in business of the
type where trust may be involved. Thinking of City of London type
things.

I fear your thinking is somewhat out of date. Since electronic trading
became the norm, investment banks could literally be anywhere.

Well, the City certainly doesn't seem to be shrinking. Any theories why
not?

--
*Gravity is a myth, the earth sucks *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The new Prius has swept the field in awards and especially the
transmission. It really has no mechanical transmission, or stripped to
the basics. No mechanism to shift gears or wind pullies in and out. It
is very simple.

You'll then explain why the latest hybrid from Toyota - the Lexus RX 400 -
includes a CVT automatic transmission?

No?

Of course not. You don't understand the principles of energy in against
energy out.

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
4) Use you batteries (for a few hundred cycles and they need changing
= pollution).

And cost some 2000 quid.

My (very low tech) 8 x 6V Crompton semi-traction monoblocks were £800
20 years ago! ;-(

Lexus in the new RX400 use Nickel-metalhydride batteries with a 5 year
warranty and 2000 quid replacement cost.

The Lexus is a hybrid based on the Prius transmission. In the USA it is 10
years/100,000 miles on the batteries and transmission.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Which is a gearbox.

It isn't. There are no stepped gears or pullies with belts. You just
don't know.

Keep going. It would be nice to find the depths of your ignorance.

--
*Windows will never cease *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Pete C wrote:

Isn't global warming like meddling with the planet and it's climate on
a fairly big scale?

The evidence that global warming is caused by human activities is far
from conclusive.

Wrong! All major scientists in the world agree that man has influenced the
climate. Kyoto is because they agree this point to start with.

"PC Paul" wrote in message
.uk...
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a gearbox,
just
one plaetary gear assembly.

Whereas a gearbox is what?

Shifting ratios between cogs. The Prius doesn't do this or have a CVT
which
has pullies and a belt. Just a simple assemmbly.

It has no mechanical transmission. No mechanism to shift gears or wind
pullies in and out. It is very simple. You need to look more and
understand
how a planetary system works. There is no ratio selection. It is simpler
than a normal car. No complex power sapping transmission, juts a
planetary
gear assembly, which
just turns, as do bearings. The "complexity" is people not
understanding
it.


OK, Thanks for the suggestion, I know it all now. Interesting. G

The Prius planetary gear works like a flattened out differential where the
two 'halfshafts' are driven by the petrol engine and the electric motor
driving the wheels, and the 'driveshaft' takes power to the generator.

So by varying the relative speeds of the petrol engine (by throttle) and
electric motor (by speed controller) you can get almost any ratio you like
from reverse to full ahead, and any power split between wheels and
generator... Nice.

Very clever. Very elegant. Very simple. The Toyota is different to the
Honda. The planetary transmission arrangement means that the engine can be
assisting the electric motor direct to drive and, charging and powering the
electric motor - all at the same time. Or be 100% on the engine or 100% on
the electric motor. The Toyota transmission is far ahead of all others. So
much so, they nearly have all licensed it for their own vehicles: Ford,
Honda, etc.

Toyota have eliminated stepped gears and pullies in the transmission. Think
of the engine as always in top gear (most efficient, and the Prius engine is
designed for high economy, tuned to a semi Atkinson) and when the speed
drops (dropping down the gears) the electric motor comes in to fill the gap
of gears - two power sources. Quite simple and neat - an electric
transmission. The electric motor can also power the vehicle by itself. The
transmission is very smooth because one really isn't there. BTW, the new
Prius is quite different to the Mk 1.

The batteries can only give 2 to 4 miles then they run down and the engine
comes to assist and recharge. A company in California has fitted Lithium
Ion batteries that give 60 miles range. Unlike the standard Prius, they fit
an electric socket for overnight charging. So, commuting, you may never
ever go onto the engine. Except in winter for heating the car. The car
then averages 135mpg.

A lot of people tank total ******** about the Prius, due to total ignorance:
complex, breaks down every week, batteries need replacing every few years,
only does 21mpg, and other such garbage.

New battery technology will make an impact that is for certain. Lith Ion
andLith poly batteries will give much longer range, to the point the all
electric car is not that far away. Toshiba have introduced a few months
back, a battery that can take a high charge very quickly, so most, if not
all, the energy clawed back on brake regen will be stored in the battery.
These are a few years off. Toyota also have a one year testing of batteries
before accpeting the type. Panasonic can't make enough of them. So, things
look like changing....or if Bush and his oil cronies have their way, they
will not.

Try here for a simulation
http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet_e.html or here for a nice
explanation in diff terms
http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyotaPrius/SideBars/PsdLikeDiff.htm

I was going to post those.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"PC Paul" writes:
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a
gearbox,
just
one plaetary gear assembly.

Whereas a gearbox is what?

Shifting ratios between cogs.

Wrong.

If you say so.

Doctor Evil wrote:

Wrong! All major scientists in the world agree that man has influenced the
climate. Kyoto is because they agree this point to start with.


Lol - "all major scientists" eh?



--
Grunff

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The new Prius has swept the field in awards and especially the
transmission. It really has no mechanical transmission, or stripped to
the basics. No mechanism to shift gears or wind pullies in and out. It
is very simple.

You'll then explain why the latest hybrid from Toyota - the Lexus RX 400 -
includes a CVT automatic transmission?

I don't think it does, as it has the Toyota transmission.

snip senile garbage

The evidence that global warming is caused by human activities is far
from conclusive.

Far from the case. The evidence is extensive. The only people with knowledge
who disagree do so for reasons of self interest or faith and sometimes both.

Christian.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Which is a gearbox.

It isn't. There are no stepped gears or pullies with belts. You just
don't know.

Keep

had to snip the senile garbage

Mary Fisher wrote:

And you said associated kit ...

More load space...


Than what? Than an estate?

Depends on the cars in question I guess. It seems to be the extra height
that makes the off roaders attractive (from a driving and loading kids
POV). The space is a bonus.

Having said that I am only relaying what the owners have said to me.
Personally I would not buy one just for those reasons.

Yup, ours load and unload themselves - can't manage the seat belts /
harnesses though.


Oh dear, a bit backward are they?

;-)

Thanks ;-)

Once they get to that size, I doubt it matters much... they seem pretty
keen of climbing anything anywhere ISTM ;-)


But it would be EASIER to get into a lower vehicle.

For them yes... we are talking easy for the parents though.

It wasn't an advantage when we had children and a Thames. We had to lift
the small ones in. The bigger ones used the step. Of course, we didn't
have

That was Ford's small van before they introduced the transit IIUC?


Ours was the mini-bus version. Ten seats.

Didn't realise they were that big - always thought there were quite a
bit smaller than a transit? (then again - not sure I have ever seen one
in real life). They did have a bit about them on TopGear the other night
when they were celebrating 40 years of the Transit though.


child seats in those days (works of the devil) but in any case it was
easy

Having child seats or not having them?


sigh Since you've snipped I don't know the reference.

I was referring to you "works of the devil" claim. I was not sure if you
meant that child seats were said work, or the lack of child seats in the
"good old days" was?


No, but women's lack of spatial awareness was mentioned.

One of the siller male misapprehensions.

One however that is a well documented scientific fact. ;-)

It is not that women lack spacial ability completely - more that they
don't (generally) have a dedicated area of the brain for the task. Note
also that this does this apply equally to all women since it relates to
the brain "sex" rather than genetic sex. (brain sex is controlled by
hormone levels in the uterus during a six week window early in pregnancy
- it is not set by X or Y chromosomes directly. It is also not an
"absolute" male/female thing in the way genetic sex is - it is more of a
sliding scale).

It is partly - in the sense you need to be aware of any special factors
about the vehicle that will affect how it behaves should something
unexpected happen.


That applies to whatever vehicle you're driving. A scooter is very different
from a tractor, that doesn't mean that you can't driver either efficiently.

I agree...

I was also suggesting that it helps if you know what happens when you go
beyond the limit of your vehicles handling. i.e. Does it over or under
steer, and do you know how to deal with what it does without loosing
control.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
Hmm. Despite modern systems making communication from any distance
easy, personal contact is still an important thing in business of the
type where trust may be involved. Thinking of City of London type
things.

I fear your thinking is somewhat out of date. Since electronic trading
became the norm, investment banks could literally be anywhere.

Well, the City certainly doesn't seem to be shrinking. Any theories why
not?

Greed. Being close together makes it easy for the bigwigs/traders/etc. to
swap
employers at the drop of a hat. If the banks were spread all over the
country,
it would be much harder. And since what the traders say, goes, they
cluster
together.

You really don't know.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Wrong! All major scientists in the world agree that man has influenced
the
climate. Kyoto is because they agree this point to start with.

Lol - "all major scientists" eh?


Er, yep, that is what it said. If you laugh at that, it is best you get
along to Mr Cranium's clinic.

Mary Fisher wrote:

Surely, on uk.d-i-y you don't buy a porch, you build it.

Yup, steam powered with twin combis and a long gas pipe ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
The evidence that global warming is caused by human activities is far
from conclusive.

Far from the case. The evidence is extensive. The only people with
knowledge
who disagree do so for reasons of self interest or faith and sometimes
both.

...or are just plain stupid.

Christian McArdle wrote:
The evidence that global warming is caused by human activities is far
from conclusive.


Far from the case. The evidence is extensive. The only people with knowledge
who disagree do so for reasons of self interest or faith and sometimes both.


Seems to me this is one of the most interesting scientific phenomena in
recent times. It's a self-perpetuating, unproven theory, which more and
more people believe because more and more people believe it...

The fact is there is no conclusive evidence that it's man made. There's
at least as much evidence for it being entirely solar-activity related.


--
Grunff

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:54:07 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Pete C wrote:
Unless you do mainly city driving, avoid the extravagant maker's
claims
for hybrids as regards fuel consumption and emissions. On average out
of
town journeys they're no better than a conventional petrol car.

How are they extravagant claims? They are the result of standardised
urban/combined fuel economy tests.

They may be, but are not representative of real life driving. And given
just how poor the Prius turned out to be, one can only assume the
software
etc was tweaked for optimum results *for these tests* Otherwise, how do
you explain an overall figure of 23 MPG in an Autocar test? No other car
I
can find is so far away from the 'official' figures.

Web reference?

Do you really believe Autocar alone? I used to get 42mpg combined from
a hatchback so claiming a Prius does 23 is absolutely laughable.

Very few cars will be used only for out of town journeys, most cars
will be urban/combined.

Yup. Autocar have a test route designed to simulate this and put every
car
they test over it. The Prius still did badly - considering its claims.

See this real life test, quotes 58mpg over the first 1000 miles:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=135

IMO you've spent so much time replying to DIMM you've started thinking
exactly the same way...

Do you mean he sends emails to Dim Lin, the Oriental enchantress? The
filthy *******!! Maxie! Get this sorted!!!

"Dave Plowman (News)" babbled in message
a senile manner..
In article ,
Pete C wrote:
They may be, but are not representative of real life driving. And given
just how poor the Prius turned out to be, one can only assume the
software etc was tweaked for optimum results *for these tests*
Otherwise, how do you explain an overall figure of 23 MPG in an Autocar
test? No other car I can find is so far away from the 'official'
figures.

Web reference?

Buy a copy. All their test results are summarised at the back and
explanations of how they're arrived at.

Do you really believe Autocar alone? I used to get 42mpg combined from a
hatchback so claiming a Prius does 23 is absolutely laughable.

No - this figure of 23 mpg was for the duration of the Autocar test.

In the same way as the 'official' fuel consumption figures aren't meant to
be an absolute but a comparison, so are Autocar's. Because no test can
ever reproduce *your* actual driving conditions or style.
But checking the tables of overall consumption that Autocar gets with
every car can be interesting. For example, a Rover 75 2 litre deisel -
hardly an economy hatch - they got 33 mpg average for the duration of the
test.

Very few cars will be used only for out of town journeys, most cars
will be urban/combined.

Yup. Autocar have a test route designed to simulate this and put every
car they test over it. The Prius still did badly - considering its
claims.

See this real life test, quotes 58mpg over the first 1000 miles:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=135

Have you actually read the article? He was trying as hard as possible to
get the very best MPG.

58mpg so far removed from your invented 23mpg.

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

The latest Prius is an amazing success. It doesn't have a gearbox,
just one plaetary gear assembly.

Whereas a gearbox is what?

Oi. Watch the attributions. People will think I can't spell. ;-)

--
He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
Buses and taxis are among the worst polluters in London. Why hasn't he
done something about that?

I can feel myself ascending one of my soapboxes. :-)

Public transport can be brought to a halt on a whim. Private transport
cannot. Therefore control freaks like lefties hate the motorist.

I'm annoyed all the new buses aren't run on LPG. No smell or smoke. Merton
council use it for most of their vehicles. And the engines are quieter
than diesels too.

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Whereas a gearbox is what?

Shifting ratios between cogs.

You're making up things again.

If a gearbox had to have different speeds, why would a mains electric
drill be described as having a two speed gearbox?

Answer. Because all mains electric drills have a gearbox.

A gearbox contains gears. It's that simple.

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.