On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:42:02 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:39:46 GMT, Wayne wrote:

It's the most disgusting habit I can think of,
next to people picking their nose and eating it with coolant and oil
stained fingers.


Google on "felching"

As far as I'm concerned, Gunner, Lott & Ann Coulter may
do as they please (as long as they harm nobody else).

Though they seem a bit odd to me. Clearly, they have
"special interests" (tastes?).

Gunner

"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group, they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core, and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

My, my .... how wingers do run on when they start to gibber & drool
GG.
--
Cliff

On 15 Mar 2005 06:03:51 -0800, "Halcitron" wrote:

then chew gum.

http://www.bettybowers.com/drudge.html

"Bush infuriated the Russian media by spitting a wad of chewing gum
into his hand before signing 2002's historic Treaty of Moscow with
Vladimir Putin. "
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/111503J.shtml

Naturally, when shaking hands with Muslims,
the "bathroom hand" is used ...
--
Cliff

Frankly, I've never met any good machinist that does not smoke. Like
with detective or analytical work, smoking goes with the trade.

But what the Hell, live and let live.

Harry C.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Frankly, I've never met any good machinist that does not smoke. Like
with detective or analytical work, smoking goes with the trade.

But what the Hell, live and let live.

I will admit if I
have to figure out a tough set up or am trying to create some trick
toolpaths that a cig always helps my concentration. I learned to crank
handles with a cig in my hand. I figure if you can stand the smell of the
shop, a little cigarette smoke aint going to bother you. Next thing you
know, someone will say the air isn't safe to breathe and everybody will have
to wear those little masks like Michael Jackson.

"Kathy" wrote in message
...


Frankly, I've never met any good machinist that does not smoke. Like
with detective or analytical work, smoking goes with the trade.

I know of several good machinists that don't smoke, by brother being one of
them. And the guy that initially trained him being another.



I figure if you can stand the smell of the
shop, a little cigarette smoke aint going to bother you.



Kathy this is not true. I once worked in a small shop with two co-workers
who smoked. I hated it, I got very bad headaches periodiclly because of it.
Glad I'm not there anymore. The smell from burning tobacco is totally
different from other smells in the shop.

Lane

have to figure out a tough set up or am trying to create some trick
toolpaths that a cig always helps my concentration.

I find coffee has the same effect on me. When I worked as a programmer
for University Hospitals, if I was having trouble debugging or
designing a complex hunk of code I'd take a coffee break. Since we
didn't have a pot in the office I'd hike on down to the hospital
cafeteria. When I'd get back and sit down with the coffee, suddenly
the whole mess would make sense. I was never sure though if it was the
effect of the caffeine on my brain, the brisk walk to the cafeteria and
back, starting over fresh, or some combination of all three.

Jim Koch, Cleveland

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:41:20 -0800, "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote:

I figure if you can stand the smell of the
shop, a little cigarette smoke aint going to bother you.



Kathy this is not true. I once worked in a small shop with two co-workers
who smoked. I hated it,

Did you like either of them?

I got very bad headaches periodiclly because of it.

Probably psychological. Less likely an allergy.

Glad I'm not there anymore.

The first seems more probable.

The smell from burning tobacco is totally
different from other smells in the shop.

Any of which might have caused the "problem",
right?
--
Cliff

On 15 Mar 2005 20:01:21 -0800, "Jim" wrote:

have to figure out a tough set up or am trying to create some trick
toolpaths that a cig always helps my concentration.

I find coffee has the same effect on me. When I worked as a programmer
for University Hospitals, if I was having trouble debugging or
designing a complex hunk of code I'd take a coffee break. Since we
didn't have a pot in the office I'd hike on down to the hospital
cafeteria. When I'd get back and sit down with the coffee, suddenly
the whole mess would make sense. I was never sure though if it was the
effect of the caffeine on my brain, the brisk walk to the cafeteria and
back, starting over fresh, or some combination of all three.

Jim Koch, Cleveland

IIRC The Harvard Business School long ago did some studies.
Breaks end up making people far more productive, usually,
so your smokers may be your most productive employees
(but, as they don't do the same jobs as the others it seems this
may not be noticed).

So do constant small changes by management (not that the
specific changes themselves usually have much to do with it ...
just that things *change*, thus keeping it more interesting I
suppose.)

Also of note: People working together with freedom are
usually more productive than those with strong management
watching over them at each step or mandating trivial things.
--
Cliff

On 15 Mar 2005 17:13:15 -0800, "Halcitron" wrote:

outsourcing

Looks like McDonalds's may be outsourcing
some employees ..... your order at the window
may first go to India (or AOL "support") .....
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
On 15 Mar 2005 17:13:15 -0800, "Halcitron" wrote:


outsourcing


Looks like McDonalds's may be outsourcing
some employees ..... your order at the window
may first go to India (or AOL "support") .....

At least they'd speak better english than the spanish speakers who are
there now. All those years of British rule count for something.

jw wrote:

Whatever happened to the test McDonalds in Colorado(Denver I think)
that had no active employees? There was a "manager" that loaded all of
the machines in the morning. The customer selected what they wanted
from a touch panel and after swiping a credit card, out it popped at
the other end. This was probably 5 years ago. Obviously didn't take
off in a huge way, but it seemed like an interesting experiment.

I imagine most of it was a "social" problem and not a techinical one
that it has not taken off.

JW

I dont know why it didnt work.. another couple of hours of sitting can't
make it any worse in my opinion.

John

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:27:15 -0500, "Kathy"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Frankly, I've never met any good machinist that does not smoke. Like
with detective or analytical work, smoking goes with the trade.

But what the Hell, live and let live.

I will admit if I
have to figure out a tough set up or am trying to create some trick
toolpaths that a cig always helps my concentration. I learned to crank
handles with a cig in my hand. I figure if you can stand the smell of the
shop, a little cigarette smoke aint going to bother you. Next thing you
know, someone will say the air isn't safe to breathe and everybody will have
to wear those little masks like Michael Jackson.

This thread will probably bring out all the ex smokers. I used to be a
smoker and smoked a lot on the job. It did seem to help with
concentration. But, since I quit I'm really sensitive to cig smoke.
Fortunately I own my shop and can have a no smoking policy. But if I
worked somewhere smoking was allowed in the shop I wouldn't bitch. I'd
either grin and bear it or quit.
ERS

Cliff piddled around and finally wrote:

I made poopy in my pants!

Cliff wrote:
On 15 Mar 2005 17:13:15 -0800, "Halcitron" wrote:

outsourcing

Looks like McDonalds's may be outsourcing
some employees ..... your order at the window
may first go to India (or AOL "support") .....
--
Cliff

How do you know it isn't already?

I see a possiblity for a translator to assist the order taker.


:/

Halcitron wrote:
Cliff wrote:

On 15 Mar 2005 17:13:15 -0800, "Halcitron" wrote:


outsourcing

Looks like McDonalds's may be outsourcing
some employees ..... your order at the window
may first go to India (or AOL "support") .....
--
Cliff


How do you know it isn't already?
I see a possiblity for a translator to assist the order taker.

If it was now the order takers would speak english or hindi rather than
spanish.

"Cliff" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:41:20 -0800, "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote:

I figure if you can stand the smell of the
shop, a little cigarette smoke aint going to bother you.



Kathy this is not true. I once worked in a small shop with two co-workers
who smoked. I hated it,

Did you like either of them?

Yes, both of them. We got along great.


I got very bad headaches periodiclly because of it.

Probably psychological. Less likely an allergy.

I cannot deny this, but have had headaces in similar circumstances also.


Glad I'm not there anymore.

The first seems more probable.

The first what?


The smell from burning tobacco is totally
different from other smells in the shop.

Any of which might have caused the "problem",
right?
--

No, not right! There were several days when one was sick and the other
wasn't employeed yet where there were no headaces.

Cliff

Cliff thanks for playing, but I stand by my observations. Nothing you can
say will change my reality.
Lane

Halcitron wrote:

Cliff wrote:


On 15 Mar 2005 17:13:15 -0800, "Halcitron" wrote:



outsourcing


Looks like McDonalds's may be outsourcing
some employees ..... your order at the window
may first go to India (or AOL "support") .....
--
Cliff



How do you know it isn't already?

I see a possiblity for a translator to assist the order taker.


:/



It is already....Hermiston OR drive through (and others) are being
answered in Fargo. Oregon has a state minimum wage of about $7.30 an
hour whereas North Dakota has the same as the federal minimum wage...$
5.15? Anyway, the exact numbers aren't important. It won't be long
until they begin to chase overseas labor at $ .25 an hour with no social
secirity, tax reporting, medicare or other overhead employee costs.

So..it seems that chasing $ 2.00 an hour difference in ND is worth the
set-up to McDonalds. Their claim is that it "improves customer
service". When you think about the fact that the order taker in in the
drive through spends 80% of their time doing other things anyway, the
money saved is really more like $ .50 an hour. I don't think this
savings justifys the move to ND, but it certainly is justified if the ND
project is a "test" to see if overseas is feasable.

Koz

For many McDonald's food hold some appeal.

For me, it simply 'sucks' and so I avoid it...I really don't care what
they do or what happens to them, or for that matter their employees and
customers.

By contrast, I find the food at Taco Bell very tasty, and for a hearty,
sit-down meal, Olive Garden is hard to beat. For pizza, Papa Johns is
also hard to beat, but they don't service New England which is where I
live.

Realize that the vast majority of the jobs being exported are at the
very low end of the employmnet spectrum, but on the other hand these
are the jobs and workers that tend to fuel the major portion of our
economy. Eventually this entire trade thing is going to sort itself
out, but while it does we may expect to see another depression.

New home sales are the indicator. Watch what is selling an what is
not.

Harry C.

Whatever happened to the test McDonalds in Colorado(Denver I think)
that had no active employees? There was a "manager" that loaded all of
the machines in the morning. The customer selected what they wanted
from a touch panel and after swiping a credit card, out it popped at
the other end. This was probably 5 years ago. Obviously didn't take
off in a huge way, but it seemed like an interesting experiment.

I imagine most of it was a "social" problem and not a techinical one
that it has not taken off.

JW

"Jim" skrev i en meddelelse
ups.com...
I find coffee has the same effect on me. When I worked as a programmer
for University Hospitals, if I was having trouble debugging or
designing a complex hunk of code I'd take a coffee break. Since we
didn't have a pot in the office I'd hike on down to the hospital
cafeteria. When I'd get back and sit down with the coffee, suddenly
the whole mess would make sense. I was never sure though if it was the
effect of the caffeine on my brain, the brisk walk to the cafeteria and
back, starting over fresh, or some combination of all three.

Going to the bathroom with a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper and a cup of
coffee helped me through 3 years of extremely boring history lectures in
highschool..... I failed history with an all time low score tho :-)

/peter

"jw" wrote:

Whatever happened to the test McDonalds in Colorado(Denver I think)
that had no active employees? There was a "manager" that loaded all of
the machines in the morning. The customer selected what they wanted
from a touch panel and after swiping a credit card, out it popped at
the other end. This was probably 5 years ago. Obviously didn't take
off in a huge way, but it seemed like an interesting experiment.

I imagine most of it was a "social" problem and not a techinical one
that it has not taken off.

Seems like all the Home Depot's and all the grocery stores around here
have installed do-it-yourself checkout machines.

They first started appearing about a year ago. At first, they just
stood there, not many people used them. Now they are getting a fair
amount of traffic, though it is still not as much as the human being
manned checkout lanes.

Look for a glut of unemployed cashiers in the next couple of years.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:24:44 -0800, "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote:

The smell from burning tobacco is totally
different from other smells in the shop.

Any of which might have caused the "problem",
right?

No, not right! There were several days when one was sick and the other
wasn't employeed yet where there were no headaces.

So if you see a black cat and don't have an auto accident ....

Cliff

Cliff thanks for playing, but I stand by my observations. Nothing you can
say will change my reality.

You indeed have a sad problem g.
--
Cliff

Breaks do make people more producitve, but there was a study of
productivity and smoking, and the results were that the non-smokers
were more productive.


Dan

On 16 Mar 2005 19:51:57 -0800, wrote:

Breaks do make people more producitve, but there was a study of
productivity and smoking, and the results were that the non-smokers
were more productive.


Dan

Might want to give us a clue what study you are talking about,

Regards


Daveb

"Winston Smith" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:12:50 -0600, George

wrote:

"jw" wrote:

Whatever happened to the test McDonalds in Colorado(Denver I think)
that had no active employees? There was a "manager"

A 'manager' with no one reporting to them? Now that is a totally new
uniquely
American idea.

Just last week, McDonald's announced it will be trying outsourcing for the
people who talk to you at the drive-throughs. Supposedly they'll be in other
states, in big bullpens.

I think the other states they have in mind are centered around Bangalore.
"What kind of curry would you like on your freedom fries, sir?"

--
Ed Huntress

"Dan Murphy" wrote in message
.. .
Winston Smith wrote in
:

Same at Wally World in Phoenix. Maybe 1/5 to 1/4 the isles are self
service. No one there, long lines at the human ones. Of course, lots
of machines, and almost no cashiers doesn't help. We do have the nice
old lady at the door greeting me. I like to see her out, active, and
employed but I sure wish they coughed up a couple more checkout folks

Probably won't happen anytime soon. When is the last time someone pumped
your gas for you? Some genius MBA at Walmart was no doubt filling his BMW
up one day and a light went off in his head.

I filled my tank for $1.79/gallon today. Somebody pumped it for me. Somebody
always pumps for me in New Jersey. Self-service is illegal. That's why we
have such cheap prices for gas.

The rest of the country (except for Oregon, is it?) has been had by Big Oil.
Instead of paying cheap rates for people to pump gas, you're paying the
amortization on some mighty fancy automation.

--
Ed Huntress

DaveB wrote in message ...
On 16 Mar 2005 19:51:57 -0800, wrote:

Breaks do make people more producitve, but there was a study of
productivity and smoking, and the results were that the non-smokers
were more productive.


Dan

Might want to give us a clue what study you are talking about,


You know...that study that "they" did....

--

SVL

wrote in news:1111031517.647830.86960
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Breaks do make people more producitve, but there was a study of
productivity and smoking, and the results were that the non-smokers
were more productive.

At an airline ticket counter. Quite a bit of the difference was due to more
sick time. I imagine if you are passing money, credit cards, and documents
back an forth with the general public, you'll end up with germs on your
hands. Now run outside for a quick smoke without washing, put your hands by
your mouth and there you go, you're sick. I don't see how people can make
sweeping generalizations based on one small study at one airline ticket
counter. I know an executive that smokes. He is also absolutely brilliant.
He is always five steps ahead of everyone else. His solutions have saved
his company millions of dollars, his ideas have made millions more. Every
contract he writes is an air tight, solid deal. Even if he works five hours
less per week than some dumb ass down the hall who's decisions cost the
company money, is he less productive?

Dan

"Dan Murphy" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in news:1111031517.647830.86960
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Breaks do make people more producitve, but there was a study of
productivity and smoking, and the results were that the non-smokers
were more productive.

At an airline ticket counter. Quite a bit of the difference was due to
more
sick time. I imagine if you are passing money, credit cards, and documents
back an forth with the general public, you'll end up with germs on your
hands. Now run outside for a quick smoke without washing, put your hands
by
your mouth and there you go, you're sick. I don't see how people can make
sweeping generalizations based on one small study at one airline ticket
counter.

http://www.aclu.org/WorkplaceRights/...?ID=8359&c=178

--

SVL

DaveB wrote in message ...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:04:24 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

Might want to give us a clue what study you are talking about,


You know...that study that "they" did....


Oh yeah that one


http://www.fff.org/comment/ed0801c.asp

--

SVL

"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:

Probably won't happen anytime soon. When is the last time someone
pumped your gas for you? Some genius MBA at Walmart was no doubt
filling his BMW up one day and a light went off in his head.

I filled my tank for $1.79/gallon today. Somebody pumped it for me.
Somebody always pumps for me in New Jersey. Self-service is illegal.
That's why we have such cheap prices for gas.

The rest of the country (except for Oregon, is it?) has been had by
Big Oil. Instead of paying cheap rates for people to pump gas, you're
paying the amortization on some mighty fancy automation.

I have got to believe that taxes figure into the price of gas in Jersey as
well. But I've often wondered about the cost of automation at gas stations
and grocery stores. Think about inventory control at a store these days.
Scanners, bar codes, computers, programmers, data entry, etc.. I often
wonder how all of that can be cheaper than a half dozen people staying late
twice a month to count up the stuff.

Dan

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:12:50 -0600, George
wrote:

"jw" wrote:

Whatever happened to the test McDonalds in Colorado(Denver I think)
that had no active employees? There was a "manager" that loaded all of
the machines in the morning. The customer selected what they wanted
from a touch panel and after swiping a credit card, out it popped at
the other end. This was probably 5 years ago. Obviously didn't take
off in a huge way, but it seemed like an interesting experiment.

I imagine most of it was a "social" problem and not a techinical one
that it has not taken off.

Seems like all the Home Depot's and all the grocery stores around here
have installed do-it-yourself checkout machines.

They first started appearing about a year ago. At first, they just
stood there, not many people used them. Now they are getting a fair
amount of traffic, though it is still not as much as the human being
manned checkout lanes.

Look for a glut of unemployed cashiers in the next couple of years.

I will continue to refuse to use the automated checkouts.

In fact, not long ago, in Home Despot..they practically begged me to
use one. I told them at that time, that if I wanted to conduct my
transactions via computer, Id buy everything off the internet. I would
continue to seek out human cashiers, or take my trade else where. The
manager I told this to, got a bit red in the face for some reason.

**** em.

Gunner

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
:

Might want to give us a clue what study you are talking about,


You know...that study that "they" did....


Oh yeah that one


http://www.fff.org/comment/ed0801c.asp

Funny how it's easy to demonize smokers. Every time someone talks about
what smoking costs the government it sound counterintuitive to me. I'd like
to see a study on the cost of obesity. I can see some real costs there. It
appears obesity is far more dangerous to your health than smoking. I had a
doctor ragging on me about smoking once. I told him that I've done some
research and it turns out everybody dies. So the doc says you'll live
longer if you quit. I say "So I can enjoy my last ten years in a nursing
home wearing a diaper, senile like my grandmother?" "No thanks." Then I
tell him he looks to be a good forty to fifty pounds overweight. Which is
more dangerous? He says "Being overweight, but you should still quit. I'm
dieting and exercising, I'm going to lose the weight." Yeah right.

Dan

"Dan Murphy" wrote in message
...
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
:

Might want to give us a clue what study you are talking about,


You know...that study that "they" did....


Oh yeah that one


http://www.fff.org/comment/ed0801c.asp

Funny how it's easy to demonize smokers. Every time someone talks about
what smoking costs the government it sound counterintuitive to me. I'd
like
to see a study on the cost of obesity. I can see some real costs there. It
appears obesity is far more dangerous to your health than smoking. I had a
doctor ragging on me about smoking once. I told him that I've done some
research and it turns out everybody dies. So the doc says you'll live
longer if you quit. I say "So I can enjoy my last ten years in a nursing
home wearing a diaper, senile like my grandmother?" "No thanks." Then I
tell him he looks to be a good forty to fifty pounds overweight. Which is
more dangerous? He says "Being overweight, but you should still quit. I'm
dieting and exercising, I'm going to lose the weight." Yeah right.


Tax chocolate...

--

SVL

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
:

Tax chocolate...

The women folk would revolt.

"Dan Murphy" wrote in message
...
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
:

Tax chocolate...

The women folk would revolt.

Screw them !!!

G

--

SVL

On 17 Mar 2005 06:18:13 GMT, Dan Murphy wrote:

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
:

Might want to give us a clue what study you are talking about,


You know...that study that "they" did....


Oh yeah that one


http://www.fff.org/comment/ed0801c.asp

Funny how it's easy to demonize smokers. Every time someone talks about
what smoking costs the government it sound counterintuitive to me. I'd like
to see a study on the cost of obesity. I can see some real costs there. It
appears obesity is far more dangerous to your health than smoking. I had a
doctor ragging on me about smoking once. I told him that I've done some
research and it turns out everybody dies. So the doc says you'll live
longer if you quit. I say "So I can enjoy my last ten years in a nursing
home wearing a diaper, senile like my grandmother?" "No thanks." Then I
tell him he looks to be a good forty to fifty pounds overweight. Which is
more dangerous? He says "Being overweight, but you should still quit. I'm
dieting and exercising, I'm going to lose the weight." Yeah right.

Moderate to heavy exercise seems to increase your expected
lifespan.
By about the same number of hours that you exercise.

Bill Roberto sees this as a net gain I expect G.
--
Cliff

On 17 Mar 2005 07:02:05 GMT, Dan Murphy wrote:

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
:

Tax chocolate...

The women folk would revolt.

The ones that already ate so much chocolate?
--
Cliff

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:58:19 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I filled my tank for $1.79/gallon today. Somebody pumped it for me. Somebody
always pumps for me in New Jersey. Self-service is illegal. That's why we
have such cheap prices for gas.

Stuff's cheaper stolen right off the docks.

That's one thing I recall about CT .... always someone
going about with carloads of stuff that got lost from NYC
docks to sell ....
--
Cliff

In rec.crafts.metalworking George wrote:
"jw" wrote:

Whatever happened to the test McDonalds in Colorado(Denver I think)
that had no active employees? There was a "manager" that loaded all of
the machines in the morning. The customer selected what they wanted
from a touch panel and after swiping a credit card, out it popped at
the other end. This was probably 5 years ago. Obviously didn't take
off in a huge way, but it seemed like an interesting experiment.

I imagine most of it was a "social" problem and not a techinical one
that it has not taken off.

Seems like all the Home Depot's and all the grocery stores around here
have installed do-it-yourself checkout machines.

They first started appearing about a year ago. At first, they just
stood there, not many people used them. Now they are getting a fair
amount of traffic, though it is still not as much as the human being
manned checkout lanes.

Look for a glut of unemployed cashiers in the next couple of years.

Those scanners are junk. I had issues at with stuff being scanned once and me being charged twice.

I refuse to use them anywhere now and just bang on them until an employee comes over and ask them to do it. They scan way slower even for employees than a real checkout line. I don't get union benefits like grocery store employees,so I refuse to use any scanning equipment anyways.