Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX
7 and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings
as readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the
other CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James

What's your budget/application? For pro use, I would highly recommend
SolidWorks, but at around $5k it's not really a home user type app.

SW is very intuitive. It is also very easy to go back and make
changes. Since it is feature based, one can make an edit and it will
replicate down through the tree and make all relating changes for you.

For a home/personal use, I can't make much a recommendation. Several
here have lauded TurboCad. I have heard Alibre is pretty good too. I
believe Alibre has a downloadable demo.

JW

My preferred CAD package is Design Cad 3000 published by Upperspace
Corp. Maybe because I am used to it I find it easy to use. It does
what I need (and a whole lot more) and is affordable at about, I
believe, $100.

I also use MasterCam for CAD/CAM application but at 12K it is a bit
steep.

Errol Groff

Instructor, Machine Tool Department

H.H. Ellis Technical High School
643 Upper Maple Street
Dantieson, CT 06239

New England Model Engineering Society
http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/





On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:52:56 -0600, James Holbrook
wrote:

Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX
7 and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings
as readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the
other CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James

Hi, James, try www.cadopia.com

I love mine and they even have an evaluation program that you might
qualify for.

Lewis.


************
James Holbrook wrote:
Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a
CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both
of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS
MAX
7 and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make
drawings
as readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the
other CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James

James Holbrook wrote:
Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX
7 and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings
as readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the
other CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James
Any of the Parametric Technology type programs (Pro Engineer,
SolidWorks, etc...) are the best at making changes in the middle of the
design process.... and YES they cost ALOT.

James Holbrook wrote:

I've tried TurboCAD, (snip) IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)

TurboCad does this function using the stretch command. I've used TC for
a number of years and find it a good bang for the buck.


--
Gary Brady
Austin, TX
www.powdercoatoven.4t.com

DesignCad 3DMax has the ability to select an object and scale it up and
down in size. You can also scale it up and down in the X & Y axis
separately. Handy for resizing doors and other rectangular objects. I've
used it and its predecessors since 1990 and find it about as useful and
easily learned as any.

Tom
"James Holbrook" wrote in message
news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX
7 and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings
as readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the
other CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James

I've used SolidEdge and found it fairly easy to use and to make changes.
It's constraint based, so when you change one thing, everything that would
depend on that dimension changes with it (assuming you constrained
everything properly to begin with, which I have messed up. doh). However, I
was using a free (compliments of GA Tech) educational version- I'm sure the
real version isn't cheap. And I never modeled anything that was actually
built/machined, so I don't know for sure that it is useful in that area. I
only used it for a design class.

-Will
"James Holbrook" wrote in message
news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX 7
and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings as
readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the other
CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James

I would recommend taking a look at Alibre Design (http://www.alibre.com).
Fully parametric 3D CAD for less that $1,000 per seat. I see lots of
suggestions for SolidWorks and SolidEdge but I think you'll find that Alibre
does almost everything they do for a small fraction of the price.

I used to be a diehard AutoCAD user but Alibre completely blows AC away for
3D solid modeling.

Robert

"James Holbrook" wrote in message
news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX 7
and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings as
readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the other
CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James

I've been using Alibre for a little over a year and would agree that it's a
terrific program. Easily one of the best software purchases I've made in
the past 5 years. Never could get the hang of DesignCad or IntelliCAD but I
was pretty productive after just a week or so with the downloadable
tutorials.

Mike

"Siggy" wrote in message
om...
I would recommend taking a look at Alibre Design (http://www.alibre.com).
Fully parametric 3D CAD for less that $1,000 per seat. I see lots of
suggestions for SolidWorks and SolidEdge but I think you'll find that
Alibre does almost everything they do for a small fraction of the price.

I used to be a diehard AutoCAD user but Alibre completely blows AC away
for 3D solid modeling.

Robert

"James Holbrook" wrote in message
news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX 7
and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings as
readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the other
CAD programs.

Any ideas?

Thanks
James

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, James Holbrook wrote:

Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of them
as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX 7 and
a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings as readily
as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change dimentions of the
object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the other CAD
programs.

Any ideas?


if you are willing to run linux there are several cad programs available
for free. the one of the best cad programs is brl-cad. developed by the
ballastic research laboratory it is now an open-source project hosted on
sourceforge.net. http://brlcad.org

another cad program is qcad. it is free. debian linux distribution
includes it.
more information on qcad is at http://www.ribbonsoft.com
more information on debian is at http://www.debian.org


Thanks
James


--
terry l. ridder

In article au.com,
terry l. ridder wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, James Holbrook wrote:

Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of them
as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX 7 and
a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings as readily
as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change dimentions of the
object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the other CAD
programs.

Any ideas?


if you are willing to run linux there are several cad programs available
for free. the one of the best cad programs is brl-cad. developed by the
ballastic research laboratory it is now an open-source project hosted on
sourceforge.net. http://brlcad.org

I'm glad to hear that it is easier to get. They used it where I
used to work (an Army R&D lab) but it was a bit of a pain to get as an
individual at that time -- especially with a slow feed thrown into the
game.

I'm downloading it as I type, now.

Looking at it, it seems that it can be compiled for almost any
modern unix. I've got both Solaris and OpenBSD running here, so I'll
have to compile it twice.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, DoN. Nichols wrote:

In article au.com,
terry l. ridder wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, James Holbrook wrote:

Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of them
as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX 7 and
a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings as readily
as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change dimentions of the
object but had to delete it and do again.)
Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the other CAD
programs.

Any ideas?


if you are willing to run linux there are several cad programs available
for free. the one of the best cad programs is brl-cad. developed by the
ballastic research laboratory it is now an open-source project hosted on
sourceforge.net. http://brlcad.org

I'm glad to hear that it is easier to get. They used it where I
used to work (an Army R&D lab) but it was a bit of a pain to get as an
individual at that time -- especially with a slow feed thrown into the
game.


yes i remember the old way of obtaining brl-cad.


I'm downloading it as I type, now.


i have it running on debian sarge with linux-2.6.10 kernel.
it works extremely well.


Looking at it, it seems that it can be compiled for almost any
modern unix. I've got both Solaris and OpenBSD running here, so I'll
have to compile it twice.


compiles cleanly.


Thanks,


you are welcome.


DoN.



--
terry l. ridder

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:21:45 GMT, Errol Groff
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


My preferred CAD package is Design Cad 3000 published by Upperspace
Corp.

Now DesignCad 3d 15 Max Plus (or whatever other crap they stack on
that name! G), by IMSI (who bought out UpperSpace AFAICS)

I also like this package. I tried it from cold, and had no trouble.

Interestingly I tried a Rhino demo a few years back. IT was horrible.
I think Rhino was new then, but boy, based on that demo I have no idea
how they survived!

Maybe because I am used to it I find it easy to use. It does
what I need (and a whole lot more) and is affordable at about, I
believe, $100.

Yup. Down to around US$60 from some places. But only sell in the US
:-

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:52:56 -0600, James Holbrook
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Hi,
Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
program.
I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX
7 and a few others but weren't happy. (read.. I couldn't make drawings
as readily as with Rhino. IE I couldn't select something and change
dimentions of the object but had to delete it and do again.)

DesignCad 3d. Tried it. Liked it. Bought it. I was comparing it to
DeltaCad, a 2D package that seesm to be acknowledged as the easist CAD
package ever. It has just started languishing, because I was able to
suss DesignCad 3d so well.

You can alter the dimensions of any object, in any x,y,z, direction,
and reference it from any point, so it only stretches from that point,
not both ways etc etc. If the object already has a dimension on it,
select the dimension as well, and it will also readjust.

Excellent support and a good forum.

I tried Turbo Cad, and found just _Selecting_ was weird. It may have
changed.

I also tried Rhino years back, and hated it.

Maybe I just need to get CAD books or training to be happy with the
other CAD programs.

I think you need patience. You are possibly too tied up with Rhino's
ways. I have struck that even when a company brings out a new version
of the same programme.

As I said, for me there is good documentation, support and a forum.

I tried Pro/Desktop when PTC had free downloads of it. The parametric
approach as well as the simulation of mechanical assemblies helped me
to easily design a steering linkage. I was impressed.

Alibre is interesting, and the price seems decent for the features. Does
it do similar mechanical assemblies that you can move?


"Siggy" wrote:
| I would recommend taking a look at Alibre Design (http://www.alibre.com).
| Fully parametric 3D CAD for less that $1,000 per seat. I see lots of
| suggestions for SolidWorks and SolidEdge but I think you'll find that Alibre
| does almost everything they do for a small fraction of the price.
|
| I used to be a diehard AutoCAD user but Alibre completely blows AC away for
| 3D solid modeling.
|
| Robert
|
| "James Holbrook" wrote in message
| news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
| Hi,
| Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a CAD
| program.
| I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both of
| them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
| I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS MAX 7
....

I think that full mechanical simulation requires buying the Expert version
of Alibre, which includes MSC.visualNastran Motion as an add-in. This is a
link to Alibre's short description of what it does and there are a few
simulations that can be viewed on-line:

http://www.alibre.com/products/addon...ran-motion.asp

I have the Pro version ($1300) and the Expert version is $1,800. I'd love
to play with the simulations but can't justify the expense for a hobby. The
regular and Pro versions will let you set up constraints that will move one
part in an assembly when another is moved or rotated but that's a static
operation.

Mike

"Brent Burton" wrote in message
...
I tried Pro/Desktop when PTC had free downloads of it. The parametric
approach as well as the simulation of mechanical assemblies helped me
to easily design a steering linkage. I was impressed.

Alibre is interesting, and the price seems decent for the features. Does
it do similar mechanical assemblies that you can move?


"Siggy" wrote:
| I would recommend taking a look at Alibre Design
(http://www.alibre.com).
| Fully parametric 3D CAD for less that $1,000 per seat. I see lots of
| suggestions for SolidWorks and SolidEdge but I think you'll find that
Alibre
| does almost everything they do for a small fraction of the price.
|
| I used to be a diehard AutoCAD user but Alibre completely blows AC away
for
| 3D solid modeling.
|
| Robert
|
| "James Holbrook" wrote in message
| news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
| Hi,
| Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a
CAD
| program.
| I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both
of
| them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
| I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS
MAX 7
...

Mike - I don't understand why you say that AD/AD Pro constraints are a
static operation? Are you just referring to the fact that it isn't a hands
off operation? I have models of steam engines that I have built that are
fully functional - all the valves slide, crank turns, pistons move up and
down, etc. I can click in the crankshaft, and using the rotate part command
watch my electronic engine run all day long if I wish. To be sure, for
dynamic analysis of that motion you need the other module but you can "run"
your models with the base package.

Robert


"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...
I think that full mechanical simulation requires buying the Expert version
of Alibre, which includes MSC.visualNastran Motion as an add-in. This is a
link to Alibre's short description of what it does and there are a few
simulations that can be viewed on-line:

http://www.alibre.com/products/addon...ran-motion.asp

I have the Pro version ($1300) and the Expert version is $1,800. I'd
love to play with the simulations but can't justify the expense for a
hobby. The regular and Pro versions will let you set up constraints that
will move one part in an assembly when another is moved or rotated but
that's a static operation.

Mike

"Brent Burton" wrote in message
...
I tried Pro/Desktop when PTC had free downloads of it. The parametric
approach as well as the simulation of mechanical assemblies helped me
to easily design a steering linkage. I was impressed.

Alibre is interesting, and the price seems decent for the features. Does
it do similar mechanical assemblies that you can move?


"Siggy" wrote:
| I would recommend taking a look at Alibre Design
(http://www.alibre.com).
| Fully parametric 3D CAD for less that $1,000 per seat. I see lots of
| suggestions for SolidWorks and SolidEdge but I think you'll find that
Alibre
| does almost everything they do for a small fraction of the price.
|
| I used to be a diehard AutoCAD user but Alibre completely blows AC away
for
| 3D solid modeling.
|
| Robert
|
| "James Holbrook" wrote in message
| news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
| Hi,
| Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a
CAD
| program.
| I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like both
of
| them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
| I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS
MAX 7
...

Robert,

Sorry - that wasn't a very good explanation and I may be using the wrong
terminology. Let me try again using an example from a recent project, a
model of Jerry Howell's V-Twin model engine, which has two pistons oriented
90 degrees apart from each other. In Alibre Standard or Pro the connecting
rods and pistons can be constrained so that they have the proper orientation
with respect to the crankshaft but are free to move up and down along their
respective axes. If the crankshaft is rotated within the model the pistons
will move up and down along their axes as they would in the working engine
but the model can only show one particular position of the crankshaft and
pistons at one time and that's what I meant by a static display. With
Alibre Expert it would be possible to animate the rotation of the crankshaft
and the resulting movement of the pistons. I assume that the animation can
be saved as an external file that others can view, but am not positive since
I dont have the expert version.

Clear as mud, right?

Mike

"Siggy" wrote in message
. com...
Mike - I don't understand why you say that AD/AD Pro constraints are a
static operation? Are you just referring to the fact that it isn't a
hands off operation? I have models of steam engines that I have built
that are fully functional - all the valves slide, crank turns, pistons
move up and down, etc. I can click in the crankshaft, and using the
rotate part command watch my electronic engine run all day long if I wish.
To be sure, for dynamic analysis of that motion you need the other module
but you can "run" your models with the base package.

Robert


"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...
I think that full mechanical simulation requires buying the Expert version
of Alibre, which includes MSC.visualNastran Motion as an add-in. This is
a link to Alibre's short description of what it does and there are a few
simulations that can be viewed on-line:

http://www.alibre.com/products/addon...ran-motion.asp

I have the Pro version ($1300) and the Expert version is $1,800. I'd
love to play with the simulations but can't justify the expense for a
hobby. The regular and Pro versions will let you set up constraints that
will move one part in an assembly when another is moved or rotated but
that's a static operation.

Mike

"Brent Burton" wrote in message
...
I tried Pro/Desktop when PTC had free downloads of it. The parametric
approach as well as the simulation of mechanical assemblies helped me
to easily design a steering linkage. I was impressed.

Alibre is interesting, and the price seems decent for the features. Does
it do similar mechanical assemblies that you can move?


"Siggy" wrote:
| I would recommend taking a look at Alibre Design
(http://www.alibre.com).
| Fully parametric 3D CAD for less that $1,000 per seat. I see lots of
| suggestions for SolidWorks and SolidEdge but I think you'll find that
Alibre
| does almost everything they do for a small fraction of the price.
|
| I used to be a diehard AutoCAD user but Alibre completely blows AC
away for
| 3D solid modeling.
|
| Robert
|
| "James Holbrook" wrote in message
| news:gJxLd.6829$HZ.4768@okepread07...
| Hi,
| Just getting started in metalworking and looking for some ideas on a
CAD
| program.
| I've used the CAD that came with eMachineShop and Rhino and like
both of
| them as they seem to be pretty logical in creating drawings.
| I've tried TurboCAD, PowerCAD, CadStd, 3D MAX Plus, BobCAD-CAM, 3DS
MAX 7
...

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:12:02 -0800, vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


www.warezstore.com has them all for $40 each. Download (if you have
high speed access to the internet) or get CD's delivered. An
incredible place.

hmmmm....

OldNick wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:12:02 -0800, vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email



www.warezstore.com has them all for $40 each. Download (if you have
high speed access to the internet) or get CD's delivered. An
incredible place.


hmmmm....

There'z zomething zuzpiciouz here...

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:04:34 -0600, Ken Grunke
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

OldNick wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:12:02 -0800, vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email



www.warezstore.com has them all for $40 each. Download (if you have
high speed access to the internet) or get CD's delivered. An
incredible place.


hmmmm....

There'z zomething zuzpiciouz here...


Hehe Prezizely!