Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll have any suggestions on
how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to get started. Don't have time for
real schooling in this, nor do I have the time (or memory skills) or the trial
and error method. Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

Autocad may not be for you. What do you need to do? Get a more basic CAD
software. You don't buy Autocad...you marry it! Try Autosketch or some
other entry-level software. If you're going to marry software, marry
"Solidworks"

"GMasterman" wrote in message
...
Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid
to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll have any
suggestions on
how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to get started. Don't have time
for
real schooling in this, nor do I have the time (or memory skills) or the
trial
and error method. Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:11:00 GMT, the renowned "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Autocad may not be for you. What do you need to do? Get a more basic CAD
software. You don't buy Autocad...you marry it! Try Autosketch or some
other entry-level software. If you're going to marry software, marry
"Solidworks"

What Tom said-- all of it. Autocad has a long history, and it shows in
the steep learning curve.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid
to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll have any
suggestions on
how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to get started. Don't have time
for
real schooling in this, nor do I have the time (or memory skills) or the
trial
and error method. Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

If what the others said applies to your needs, I totally agree. Find
something easier to use if you can and learn from there.

But if you need to have ACAD for some reason, then the first thing you might
want to do is find an ACAD newsgroup. There are lots of people here who
probably know it, but there are ACAD fanatics in those groups who will jump
at the opportunity to answer all your questions and then some.

You probably want to learn how to modify the menu system to simplify things
first off IMHO. Too much on the screen to try and juggle and learn it all
at once from my experience. I started learning the basics on a "stripped"
screen and started adding functions to the MNU files as I found I needed
them regularly. That way you can also set up your own "short cuts" to those
functions too...

ACAD is about as complex as they come on the consumer user end... Once you
think you know it, you realise that you still ave to reference yours or
someone else's notes from time to time.

Good luck!

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
http://www.autodrill.com
http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com

V8013

On 17 Jan 2005 14:59:03 GMT, (GMasterman) wrote:

Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll have any suggestions on
how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to get started. Don't have time for
real schooling in this, nor do I have the time (or memory skills) or the trial
and error method. Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

You're not gonna like this, but. . .

AFIK there is no easy way to learn Autocad. It is an inherently
un-simple program, both because of what it does and because of its
design. (Last time I looked the macro langauge for Autocad was a
version of LISP!) Almost no one really 'learns Autocad' in the way
that you learn, say, Excel. Instead most people become familar enough
with the features and add-ons they need to do a specific job or jobs
and ignore the rest of the program.

While some people have picked it up on their own, the usual way to
learn Autocad is to take a couple of courses in it. Even then you're
still on the learning curve for a couple of years and you never really
stop learning.

It's a professional's tool and learning it is a profession all its
own. Correspondingly it is extremely powerful and flexible, but that's
not much compensation when you're trying to get a handle on it.

My suggestion would be to get something simpler. None of the simpler
ones can really do everything Autocad does, but many of them are at
least as good or better in certain areas. Decide what it is you want
to do with a CAD program and go looking for one that focuses on those
things.

If you just want to learn CAD, I'd suggest starting with one of the
low-cost programs like TurboCAD. It will at least get your feet wet
and may be all you need.

--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

Depends on what you are looking for. Autocad is a cumbersome CAD tool.
If you don't understand CAD concepts to start with it will be
difficult. I forced myself to learn it using "Learn Autocad14 in 14
days". It starts out pretty basic and builds on itself. I still use
Autocad occasionaly, but my preference now is for SolidWorks. BUT it
depends on if you need 2D or 3D CAD. For 3D SW is the way to go. For
2D, Autocad is much better(of the two). I support both packages at
work as an IT user. I don't use them but understand their quirks and
know how to use both effectively.

There are simpler 2D cad packages out there. If you are learning just
for personal use, look into TurboCAD or something similar. For a
production environment look into the aforementioned packages. I think
Alibre is a 3D package for reasonably cheap(I might be wrong).

JW

"GMasterman" wrote in message
...
Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid
to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll have any
suggestions on
how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to get started. Don't have time
for
real schooling in this, nor do I have the time (or memory skills) or the
trial
and error method. Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

What are you trying to draw/design?

On 17 Jan 2005 14:59:03 GMT, (GMasterman) wrote:

Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

AutoCAD isn't it.

I've been using TurboCAD (v9 currently) and generally like it although I
have not even come close to mastering it. I started using TC a number of
years ago when I was working on some 2D architectural stuff and I found
that IMSI had a 2D version available as a freebie. I started using it
and found it worked well and then a while later I got an email offer
from them for the full professional 3D version for $99.00. At that price
I certainly couldn't pass on it and so it went. Since that time I've
upgraded versions a couple times at about $99 so I'm now at TC v9
professional at a total outlay of perhaps $300 over like 6 years which
doesn't seem bad compared to the $750 it seems to be selling for.

I'm currently working on building a small CNC router/drill that I will
run with EMC (http://www.linuxcnc.org). Just this afternoon I got a call
from IMSI (they're a little over zealous with marketing) and I asked
about the cost of an upgrade to TurboCADCAM v2.5 which includes TurboCAD
v10.5 and was quoted $300 for the upgrade which also seems pretty good
compared against the about $900 street price.

TurboCAD also generally comes with some extra stuff on the CD such as
Floorplan3D which is a stripped down and optimized CAD that I find is
really good for putting together quick visualizations of floor plans
(good renders with sun angle and all). In fact on the house I just
purchased this past August I took measurements while I was looking at it
and had the floor plan fully modeled in FP3D before I even closed on the
sale.

If you can get a good intro price offer TurboCAD seems difficult to
beat.

Pete C.


Don Foreman wrote:

On 17 Jan 2005 14:59:03 GMT, (GMasterman) wrote:

Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

AutoCAD isn't it.

"GMasterman" wrote in message
...
Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid
to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll have any
suggestions on
how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to get started. Don't have time
for
real schooling in this, nor do I have the time (or memory skills) or the
trial
and error method. Need something aimed at the old man computor handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

Autocad is a powerful tool, but not for the faint of heart, and not for
first timers
you have gotten some good advice, but here is some based on the fact that
1. you already have AutoCad on your computer
2. you have lots to learn


the following link will take you to the FREE download page for
emachineshopCAD
http://www.emachineshop.com/download/index.htm

this isn't the slickest whistle in the band, but, it does have an extensive
tutorial/help/documentation info that is geared for the absolute
begineryou

you can teach yourself the BASIC idea of how to draw stuff with a CAD
program
and then, what you do next, etc

my advice is you should do this before you even think about trying to learn
AutoCad,
it will go much easier if you do

did I mention it was free?

I don't have that version, but the versions I have installed do have a
good Help file & usually a tutorial built in.
Bert

what does a seat of solidwerks cost these days?

(GMasterman) wrote in
:

Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too
stupid to be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be
started. The Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll
have any suggestions on how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to
get started. Don't have time for real schooling in this, nor do I have
the time (or memory skills) or the trial and error method. Need
something aimed at the old man computor handicapped mindset. Thanks!

Lot of ney-sayers here about AutoCad. I learned it on my own, without
too much difficulty. If you understand mechanical drafting, you should
be ok.
I will agree, it is advanced and powerful software, and some basic
understanding is needed.
I preferred the icons as i learned, simply because they were easier for
me to remember. Now, if I should happen to be using AutoCad for something
(we use Inventor now), I normally will use keyboard shortcuts, because
it's just easier for me, and I can open up the workspace by getting rid
of the menu bars.
Setting it up to make it easier to use is what consumes more time than
anything. Some hints, from the option/display/etc menus:
Enable polar tracking, and set the angle to 45°. This option allows you
to draw a straight line with the mouse at all 8 angles (0,45,90,135,etc).
Enable the following snaps: Endpoint, midpoint, intersection,
perpendicular, tangent.
In mouse options, disable right click 'menu' and enable 'enter' and
'repeat last command'
The spacebar acts as an enter key within a command.
From the ‘View’ menu, turn UCS on, and ORIGIN on.
Read the command line at the bottom of the screen while within a command,
it will tell you what it expects from you, and what your other options
are. Options can be chosen with the capital letter shown in the option
command.
I keep the command line limited to 2 rows. You can always hit F2 to bring
up the command line box.
The ESC key is your friend, and one you will use often. It gets you out
of a command, or cancels a highlight.
For ease of viewing, change the background to black, and lines to white.
The white background will have you blind in a day.
You can always type in what dimensions you wish, say for the start and
endpoint of a line, using the format you have chosen.
To set your format, click format from the top menu, then 'Units', this
lets you choose what format you want for your drawing (0.0000, 0'-0”,
etc) [You MUST input dimensions in the unit you have chosen]
Open it up, play around with it. You can always use the ‘Help’ also.
There are some tutorials included.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:18:40 -0600, the renowned "williamhenry"
wrote:

what does a seat of solidwerks cost these days?

About $4K US, IIRC. The educational edition is $100, but it expires
in 2 years and is crippled in some way or another to make it
"unsuitable for commercial use". It at least watermarks the drawings
to indicate they were produced by a student version.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

What does SolidWorks go for nowadays, how much is the annual maintenance,
and will it still work if you drop the annual maintenance?

I remember checking out AutoCad Inventor on their web site and thinking that
the 5 or 10% off offer to "first time visitors" might be justification for
an impulse buy. After a lot of searching for prices on the AutoCad site it
apperared that the cheapest version was around $5500 and maintenance was
something like $1200 per year. So much for impulse buys.

Have you looked at Alibre? It's about a fifth the price of Inventor and has
been working pretty well for me.

Mike

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. com...
Autocad may not be for you. What do you need to do? Get a more basic CAD
software. You don't buy Autocad...you marry it! Try Autosketch or some
other entry-level software. If you're going to marry software, marry
"Solidworks"

"GMasterman" wrote in message
...
Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too
stupid to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here. Ya'll have any
suggestions on
how a slow learning idiot can learn enough to get started. Don't have
time for
real schooling in this, nor do I have the time (or memory skills) or the
trial
and error method. Need something aimed at the old man computor
handicapped
mindset. Thanks!

Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid
to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here.

Autocad is about as handy as pockets in your underpants. I suggest that you
download a trial copy of DesignCad 3D Max from the net. ( Google for it). It
works for a couple of weeks at no cost. That should be long enough to find
out if you like it. If you do, send them less than a hundred bucks and they
will email you an activation code. Even if you really need Autocad, try it
anyway as it will get you started in CAD a hell of a lot quicker than all
the books for dummies. It has the option of working in 2D or 3D, it has
basic shapes include in the 3D section that you can resize and modify.You
draw in real size and scale it when you print it. It can import and export
in Autocad and DXF format if you need it to send or receive drawings via
email.

It's about the easiest drawing program to learn that I know of.

Tom

[quote=Tom Miller]
Just put Autocad 2001 on my computer and have learned that I am too stupid
to
be able to operate it. Guess I need a book that will get be started. The
Autocad for Idiots book is way over my head here.

I'm with Gmasterman. I taught myself AutoCad.

If you start slow, learn the basic commands like draw a line, draw a circle, trim a line, offset a line, snap to intersection, snap to center, etc., you can be drawing simple-to-moderate 2D drawings with a week of evenings invested.

Pick up a CAD for DUMMY's book. You'll get the hang of it.

Just because a CAD package has a lot of features, doesn't mean you have to learn them all.

As for price, even AutoCad Lite retails at about $1000 now-a-days.!!!!!

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:45:27 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

Autocad is about as handy as pockets in your underpants.

With perhaps a hole in the pocket? G

AutoCad is worth learning if one is going to use it a lot -- and if
one can get someone else to buy it. It doesn't provide any basic
capability that others like TurboCAD lack, but once learned it is
enormously faster and easier to use if one is a facile typist and
learns the keyboard commands that are useful to him.

I can do a 2D drawing in AutoCAD faster than I could do it by hand and
scan it. That's not a brag; it's just that I've been using it since
R12 for DOS so the parts of it I use are as familiar to me as an old
pair of pliers. I pretend no mastery of it, but it does what I want
to do very quickly and easily, far more so than using a pencil and
Vemco. (Young readers, the Vemco was a sliderule era "drafting
machine".) Using TurboCAD feels to me like stirring peanut
butter. It can get it done, but it is gawd-awful tedious.

I didn't learn ACAD in a evening, but I think one could get cookin'
with it in a week of evenings as another poster suggested.

One needn't learn and master every feature. Hands-on practice with
one's own project and a good reference is far better than trying to
"learn from a book" because you then learn the stuff that enables you
to do what you want to do, nevermind the stuff you don't care about.
The trouble with books is that they try to be all things to all
readers. Some of the Dummies books are good in that they serve as
easily-accessed references. Start doing, consult book to discover
how to do each operation that you want to do. Facility and
familiarity will come after you've done that with a number of
projects, just like welding, using a lathe or any skill.

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Spehro Pefhany
wrote back on Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:19:14
-0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:11:00 GMT, the renowned "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Autocad may not be for you. What do you need to do? Get a more basic CAD
software. You don't buy Autocad...you marry it! Try Autosketch or some
other entry-level software. If you're going to marry software, marry
"Solidworks"

What Tom said-- all of it. Autocad has a long history, and it shows in
the steep learning curve.

Arggh! Easy stuff has a short learning curve, hard stuff has a long
learning curve. Steep curve good! Steep curve means you grasp concepts
quickly! Arrgh!

Personal nitpick but a steep learning curve is a good thing! Visualize
a basic XY graph, with amount learned being Y, and time spent learning
being X.

A "steep" curve means that the amount of material learned (the y value)
goes up very rapidly for the amount of time expended (X). If you spend all
week studying something and still don't get it, you have a problem, and a
flat learning curve.

Turning on a CNC machine has a steep and "short" learning curve. In
terms of Autocad, "how do I get the program to run. Load, and click this
button." Done.
Mastering everything the program can do is a longer process, and the
learning curve is much flatter.

I know, I'm barking up the wrong tree, some things get stuck in the
public memory and reality has nothing to do with it. Lets just say I don't
have a short learning curve on this. :-)


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show
wrote back on Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:07:15 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

You're not gonna like this, but. . .

AFIK there is no easy way to learn Autocad. It is an inherently
un-simple program, both because of what it does and because of its
design. (Last time I looked the macro langauge for Autocad was a
version of LISP!) Almost no one really 'learns Autocad' in the way
that you learn, say, Excel. Instead most people become familar enough
with the features and add-ons they need to do a specific job or jobs
and ignore the rest of the program.

While some people have picked it up on their own, the usual way to
learn Autocad is to take a couple of courses in it. Even then you're
still on the learning curve for a couple of years and you never really
stop learning.

It's a professional's tool and learning it is a profession all its
own. Correspondingly it is extremely powerful and flexible, but that's
not much compensation when you're trying to get a handle on it.

At the tech college where I learned machining, Autocad was a one (maybe
two) year program all to itself.

All that to learn how to draw circles, squares and triangles :-).

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:17:01 GMT, the renowned pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Spehro Pefhany
wrote back on Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:19:14
-0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:11:00 GMT, the renowned "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Autocad may not be for you. What do you need to do? Get a more basic CAD
software. You don't buy Autocad...you marry it! Try Autosketch or some
other entry-level software. If you're going to marry software, marry
"Solidworks"

What Tom said-- all of it. Autocad has a long history, and it shows in
the steep learning curve.

Arggh! Easy stuff has a short learning curve, hard stuff has a long
learning curve. Steep curve good! Steep curve means you grasp concepts
quickly! Arrgh!

Personal nitpick but a steep learning curve is a good thing! Visualize
a basic XY graph, with amount learned being Y, and time spent learning
being X.

A "steep" curve means that the amount of material learned (the y value)
goes up very rapidly for the amount of time expended (X). If you spend all
week studying something and still don't get it, you have a problem, and a
flat learning curve.

Yeah, we had a long discussion on this subject in alt.usage.english,
but the meaning is the meaning, silly as it may seem to you and me.
Except to those prescriptivist types, that is (baleful sideways
glance).


Turning on a CNC machine has a steep and "short" learning curve. In
terms of Autocad, "how do I get the program to run. Load, and click this
button." Done.
Mastering everything the program can do is a longer process, and the
learning curve is much flatter.

I know, I'm barking up the wrong tree, some things get stuck in the
public memory and reality has nothing to do with it. Lets just say I don't
have a short learning curve on this. :-)

Your gripe is noted, stamped in triplicate, and filed. ;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

I know nothing of the history of the phrase, but it occurs to me that
the term "curve" as used therein need not be mathematically based.
What if "curve" represents a slope one has to climb to become
knowledgeable?
Bob S.