Sometimes -- but it does not always work. I had a bad experience with Circuit
City a while ago. It will be the last experience I have with them as I will
snip

we lose you as a customer." I asked him why he bothered calling -- and he
could not seem to answer. I wish them the best of Chapter 11.

Won't be long, Best Buy is kicking their collective butt.

Jim L. wrote:
Today I tried to return my Craftsman clicker /ratchet torque wrench for a
replacement because the lock-unlock
switch is defective. Sales associate told me they only guarantee hand tools
having moving parts for one year. Hammers and screwdrivers are examples of
those with the "forever" warranty. Since ratchets have moving parts they are
only warranted for one year. I don't know what to say about adjustable
wrenches, pliers, gas torches,universal joint sockets, hand braces,tape
measures, micrometers, and so on into the night. Any others run into this
policy? Jim

I encountered that attitude at a sears store in 1982. Suggested to the hardware
manager that he look up the meaning of "unconditional" in any dictionary; got
told that sears doesn't need my business that badly. Haven't set foot in a
sears store since; haven't missed them one bit.

-jc-

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:15:35 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
snip----
Well, there are Craftsman power tools, and there are craftsman power
tools. Their cheap stuff is pretty well crap. An example is circular
saws. They currently have 4 consumer grade saws, and one professional.
The pro is every bit as good as the Makita 5007nb or Dewalt dw368

Same with the belt sander. 3 consumers, and 1 professional.

The cheap Makita stuff is every bit as bad as the Craftsman low end
stuff. Cheap Bosch stuff too.

You are most likely right.

I think, for the most part, the home shop types tend to use their tools in a
rather light fashion. Certainly not continually, like a guy does that works
with his tools daily on the job. It is for that reason that when I buy a
tool that will get little to no use, I head for HF. If I'm going to get
inferior quality, I fully intend to pay a price in keeping with the quality.
If it serves my purpose for the job at hand, I'm pleased.

I also purchased a ½" Hitachi hammer drill while working on the castle. I
used it exclusively for drilling concrete, so it got little use. About the
third time I used it, perhaps ten days after warranty had expired, the
trigger switch died. Took it to an authorized repair station where I was
told "tough luck" and had to pay for a new one, which promptly died again.
Tough luck I was told yet again, so I never repaired the damned thing and
have never again purchased anything made by Hitachi, nor do I say anything
complimentary about them. The switch was obviously not suited to the
application. All I did was use it as it was intended to be used.
Incidentally, the failure was in the variable speed. The drill continued to
run, just on or off. It did that until about a month ago, when it quit
completely.

Any advice regards buying a new hammer drill that may not get much use? HF?
Can't afford, nor can I justify, a good one, like Hilti, which would be my
first choice if I worked with it daily.

Harold

Do what I do when looking for tools I don't use enough to warrant
buying brand new high quality stuff. I buy used.
My Rockwell 7 1/4" saw (I called it a delta last post - I was wrong -
it is a Rockwell) cost me $5 at a garage sale with a cracked miter
shoe. The part cost me $8 and change from the repair depot ($279 saw
new)

The 8 1/4" Milwaulkee cost me $25 with a broken depth adjuster shoe -
which cost me $8 or so from the depot.
My Milwaulkee Sawzall I got free with a broken pitman drive. The
repair depot in Windsor told my brother-in-law it wasn't worth fixing
and the part was not available so he gave it to me. I bought the
required parts for the newer model saw (3 parts instead of just one,
to be able to use the now available, stronger parts) for $35. I should
replace the switch sometime - it is a bit touchy the last year or so.

I bought my Myford Super 7 (about $8500 US new) for $1500 Canadian and
but $200 Canadian worth of crossfeed screws and nuts in it.

My Beaver 8" table saw cost me $40 (the good old style cast base unit)
and I put about $10 worth of bearings into it.

My 6" jointer planer I got for nothing with a bad drive pulley and
worn shaft (where the pulley had run loose for too long). I reduced
the shaft size with my hand grinder and installed a smaller bore
pulley. Paid to have the knives re-ground.

"MP Toolman" wrote in message
...
snip----

I'd go for a used Bosch, Hilti, or similar
over a new Harbor Freight piece of junk. Even a Milwauke rep at an
industrial
show once confided that nobody makes hammer drills like "the Germans." I
saw a
Hilti 1/2 inch hammer drill with a case, a few drills and a bunch of
fasteners
at a Pawn shop the other day for under $50. Scraped up and dirty, but
seemed
to be in excellent mechanical shape. I was tempted, but I have a similar
Bosch
that has been going strong for years.

Mill

Thanks! To be perfectly honest, I hadn't considered a pawn shop, but will
check our local ones Monday! I'm in need soon.

Harold

HaroldA102 wrote:

Thay only replace with the same part number if that number is no longer made
you are out of luck..period

Simply not true. My father has purchased ONE 1/2" drive ratchet in his life, in
the mid-60's. It has since been replaced and/or repaired several times. At one
point the original handle had been repaired with new ratchet guts too many times
and was just plain shot. The original had a handle about 18" long, unfortunately
they do not make one that long any more so he was given the current shorter
model.

The best deals are the tools that are sold in sets only, several years ago I
bought a set of 6 T-handle allens. In the application I had at the time I only
used 2 sizes with any frequency and they eventually became rounded off. Took the
rounded ones back and they gave me a whole new set, as they are only sold in sets
of 6??
Didn't take me long to figure out this game, I now have several sets, and my
needs have since changed so I use most of the sizes now.

Tom

"John Chase" wrote in message
. com...
Jim L. wrote:
Today I tried to return my Craftsman clicker /ratchet torque wrench for
a
replacement because the lock-unlock
switch is defective. Sales associate told me they only guarantee hand
tools
having moving parts for one year. Hammers and screwdrivers are examples
of
those with the "forever" warranty. Since ratchets have moving parts they
are
only warranted for one year. I don't know what to say about adjustable
wrenches, pliers, gas torches,universal joint sockets, hand braces,tape
measures, micrometers, and so on into the night. Any others run into
this
policy? Jim

I encountered that attitude at a sears store in 1982. Suggested to the
hardware
manager that he look up the meaning of "unconditional" in any dictionary;
got
told that sears doesn't need my business that badly. Haven't set foot in
a
sears store since; haven't missed them one bit.

-jc-

Sears joined the "bottom line" concept many years ago and it has cost them
dearly. In practicing the "more-profit-for-less-value" theory, many of us
have quit buying from them.

Like you, I quit and hadn't gone to one of their stores in many years.
Since moving to a small community, I've returned to buying from them, due,
in part, to my limited selection that is available locally. One product
they carry, a dehumidifier, is not available from anyone else, and we've
purchased three of them.

I'm still not real happy with their business philosophy, but I'm finding
that, more and more, many businesses would rather skin the sheep than shear
it, and don't give a damn that it dies. Sigh!

Harold

Oh yes, Sears and their allen wrenches...a recent story for you.

I had a set of Craftsman allen wrenches (2-3 years old) which I had
broken a number of them. Finally one day I break a larger one and
decide to go get a replacement set. When I go to exchange them, the
clerk begins to remove the ones in the new set. I point out to her
that since Sears only sells these in a set, the replacement warranty
is for the set, not just for one or two of them. As she continues to
balk, I point out that if she wants me to I can break the other
wrenches in front of her so she will give me the whole set. She states
that you can't do that. I then calmly proceed to break all the other
wrenches in the old set and place the pieces on the counter. At this
time, she decides maybe I am a customer who is not to be messed with
and gives me the new set so I will leave. I thank her very politely
and now request her to call the manager so we can have a short
conversation. When he arrives, I discuss what the situation is and
point out that this is not how to keep a customer who has purchased
from Sears for decades happy. I then ask him to call his manager, who
then hears the same story.

All in all, a simple replacement of a set of allen wrenches took me 45
minutes and three conversations to achieve but I feel that I made my
point that a happy customer is a repeat customer.

The interesting part of the story is that I have a good friend who
works at Sears in the tool department. He tells me that my effort that
day has now become one of the stories used in the customer training
that the managers get now as to how not to treat a customer.

Sometimes companies like people need to be taught what they should
already known.

TMT


"william_b_noble" wrote in message news:1100929871.44RsxitPb46U8XUJYfOliA@teranews. ..
presuming you have a crafstman hand tool, that was originally guaranteed for
life, the sales person is just plain lying.

Here's a story:
I went into a local sears store to return a small allen wrench that I had
broken. the sales person said "those aren't guaranteed". I asked a second
person, same answer. So, I took my sears catalog and cut out the lifetime
warranty statement, taped the statement and the broken wrench to a piece of
paper, and wrote a note explaining how it was fraudulent to offer a warranty
and then not honor it. I packaged it up, addressed it to the president of
sears in Chicago, and sent it off. Within 3 days I had a letter from the
senior manager saying: "I really wish you hadn't written that letter ....."
with a replacement allen wrench attached. The replacement wrench was
defective (large piece of flashing), so I went back holding the wrench in my
hand. When I entered the tool area, a salesman saw me holding the wrench
and literally RAN over to me and said "I'll replace that right away for you,
SIR", and RAN into the back and got me a new one.

You can imagine the local manager getting a call from the president's office
asking if he wanted to keep his job.....

You may wish to follow this approach.



"Jim L." wrote in message
. com...
Today I tried to return my Craftsman clicker /ratchet torque wrench for a
replacement because the lock-unlock
switch is defective. Sales associate told me they only guarantee hand
tools
having moving parts for one year. Hammers and screwdrivers are examples of
those with the "forever" warranty. Since ratchets have moving parts they
are
only warranted for one year. I don't know what to say about adjustable
wrenches, pliers, gas torches,universal joint sockets, hand braces,tape
measures, micrometers, and so on into the night. Any others run into this
policy? Jim

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
om...
Oh yes, Sears and their allen wrenches...a recent story for you.

I had a set of Craftsman allen wrenches (2-3 years old) which I had
broken a number of them. Finally one day I break a larger one and
decide to go get a replacement set. When I go to exchange them, the
clerk begins to remove the ones in the new set. I point out to her
that since Sears only sells these in a set, the replacement warranty
is for the set, not just for one or two of them. As she continues to
balk, I point out that if she wants me to I can break the other
wrenches in front of her so she will give me the whole set. She states
that you can't do that. I then calmly proceed to break all the other
wrenches in the old set and place the pieces on the counter.

You are exactly the kind of customers any store does not need. In replacing
the broken items they would have made your set complete, which is what you were
enttiled. Your behavior is not something to be proud of.

- Bob

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:06:57 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:15:35 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
snip----
Well, there are Craftsman power tools, and there are craftsman power
tools. Their cheap stuff is pretty well crap. An example is circular
saws. They currently have 4 consumer grade saws, and one professional.
The pro is every bit as good as the Makita 5007nb or Dewalt dw368

Same with the belt sander. 3 consumers, and 1 professional.

The cheap Makita stuff is every bit as bad as the Craftsman low end
stuff. Cheap Bosch stuff too.

You are most likely right.

I think, for the most part, the home shop types tend to use their tools in a
rather light fashion. Certainly not continually, like a guy does that works
with his tools daily on the job. It is for that reason that when I buy a
tool that will get little to no use, I head for HF. If I'm going to get
inferior quality, I fully intend to pay a price in keeping with the quality.
If it serves my purpose for the job at hand, I'm pleased.

I also purchased a ½" Hitachi hammer drill while working on the castle. I
used it exclusively for drilling concrete, so it got little use. About the
third time I used it, perhaps ten days after warranty had expired, the
trigger switch died. Took it to an authorized repair station where I was
told "tough luck" and had to pay for a new one, which promptly died again.
Tough luck I was told yet again, so I never repaired the damned thing and
have never again purchased anything made by Hitachi, nor do I say anything
complimentary about them. The switch was obviously not suited to the
application. All I did was use it as it was intended to be used.
Incidentally, the failure was in the variable speed. The drill continued to
run, just on or off. It did that until about a month ago, when it quit
completely.

Any advice regards buying a new hammer drill that may not get much use? HF?
Can't afford, nor can I justify, a good one, like Hilti, which would be my
first choice if I worked with it daily.

Harold

Do what I do when looking for tools I don't use enough to warrant
buying brand new high quality stuff. I buy used.
My Rockwell 7 1/4" saw (I called it a delta last post - I was wrong -
it is a Rockwell) cost me $5 at a garage sale with a cracked miter
shoe. The part cost me $8 and change from the repair depot ($279 saw
new)

The 8 1/4" Milwaulkee cost me $25 with a broken depth adjuster shoe -
which cost me $8 or so from the depot.
My Milwaulkee Sawzall I got free with a broken pitman drive. The
repair depot in Windsor told my brother-in-law it wasn't worth fixing
and the part was not available so he gave it to me. I bought the
required parts for the newer model saw (3 parts instead of just one,
to be able to use the now available, stronger parts) for $35. I should
replace the switch sometime - it is a bit touchy the last year or so.

I bought my Myford Super 7 (about $8500 US new) for $1500 Canadian and
but $200 Canadian worth of crossfeed screws and nuts in it.

My Beaver 8" table saw cost me $40 (the good old style cast base unit)
and I put about $10 worth of bearings into it.

My 6" jointer planer I got for nothing with a bad drive pulley and
worn shaft (where the pulley had run loose for too long). I reduced
the shaft size with my hand grinder and installed a smaller bore
pulley. Paid to have the knives re-ground.

Large community swap meets or as our British cousins call them..boot
sales (?) are good places to pick up good used tools at often times
very good prices.

Gunner



Come shed a tear for Michael Moore-
Though he smirked and lied like a two-bit whore
George Bush has just won another four.
Poor, sad little Michael Moore

Diogenes

In article , "Jim L." wrote:
Today I tried to return my Craftsman clicker /ratchet torque wrench for a
replacement because the lock-unlock
switch is defective. Sales associate told me they only guarantee hand tools
having moving parts for one year. Hammers and screwdrivers are examples of
those with the "forever" warranty. Since ratchets have moving parts they are
only warranted for one year. I don't know what to say about adjustable
wrenches, pliers, gas torches,universal joint sockets, hand braces,tape
measures, micrometers, and so on into the night. Any others run into this
policy? Jim


I tried to return an electric sander once. I purchased it, took it home and
found that it did not work. Took it back and the store told me the
warranty had expired while it was on the store shelf. Stupidest story I
have ever heard. After creating a scene they replaced the sander. that
was the last time I have ever had dealings with Sears. And I will never have
any further dealings with them.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:58:25 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking, Gunner
wrote,
Large community swap meets or as our British cousins call them..boot
sales (?) are good places to pick up good used tools at often times
very good prices.

You might even get some that used to be Gunner's.

No other way to get the meat out

WB
.................

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
many businesses would rather skin the sheep than shear
it, and don't give a damn that it dies. Sigh!

Harold






----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"RoyJ" wrote in message
ink.net...

Sometimes -- but it does not always work. I had a bad experience with
Circuit
City a while ago. It will be the last experience I have with them as I
will
snip

we lose you as a customer." I asked him why he bothered calling -- and
he
could not seem to answer. I wish them the best of Chapter 11.

Won't be long, Best Buy is kicking their collective butt.

Recently Wall St Journal had article about Best Buys new marketing strategy.
They are rating their customers as good or bad. Good meaning someone that
wants the latest and greatest electronic gizmo and doesn't wait for a sale
to get the best price. Bad meaning someone that generates little or no
profit because they do things such as only buying when on sale, demand that
they honor their best price policy, returns products and are generally a
pain in the butt. They figure that let them buy from Wal-Mart and other
discount stores. There is more money to be made selling higher end
products.

"Wild Bill" wrote in message
...
No other way to get the meat out

WB
................

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
many businesses would rather skin the sheep than shear
it, and don't give a damn that it dies. Sigh!

Harold



Chuckle!!

Yep, that's true, but in the case of Sears, they weren't looking for meat.
They wanted the wool.

Or do they? g

Harold

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:15:35 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:



I think, for the most part, the home shop types tend to use their tools in a
rather light fashion. Certainly not continually, like a guy does that works
with his tools daily on the job. It is for that reason that when I buy a
tool that will get little to no use, I head for HF. If I'm going to get
inferior quality, I fully intend to pay a price in keeping with the quality.
If it serves my purpose for the job at hand, I'm pleased.

Some of that cheap stuff is remarkably good - 4" angle grinders being
one example that keeps on going longer than the price says that it
should.
A lot of the cheap tools seem to have really dodgy ergonomics -
square handles, poor balance, etc. Not stuff that would add to the
cost to make the tool
I also purchased a ½" Hitachi hammer drill while working on the castle. I
used it exclusively for drilling concrete, so it got little use. About the
third time I used it, perhaps ten days after warranty had expired, the
trigger switch died. Took it to an authorized repair station where I was
told "tough luck" and had to pay for a new one, which promptly died again.
Tough luck I was told yet again, so I never repaired the damned thing and
have never again purchased anything made by Hitachi, nor do I say anything
complimentary about them. The switch was obviously not suited to the
application. All I did was use it as it was intended to be used.
Incidentally, the failure was in the variable speed. The drill continued to
run, just on or off. It did that until about a month ago, when it quit
completely.

Any advice regards buying a new hammer drill that may not get much use? HF?
Can't afford, nor can I justify, a good one, like Hilti, which would be my
first choice if I worked with it daily.

On my experience, I would recommend Hitachi :-) My DW20 (1/2" chuck,
20mmm holes in concrete) is a good machine. It's predecessor was good
until someone stole it.
The triggers should be an easy fix I would have thought.
Geoff

"geoff m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:15:35 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:
snip-----

On my experience, I would recommend Hitachi :-) My DW20 (1/2" chuck,
20mmm holes in concrete) is a good machine. It's predecessor was good
until someone stole it.

Interesting observation, and I'd normally pursue the advice based on a
report such as yours, but I don't feel I should support a company that sold
a device that was not suited to the application and then dismissed a
dissatisfied customer when the problem came home to roost. No way in hell
would I get involved with that company again. Screw me once shame on you,
screw me twice, shame on me.

The triggers should be an easy fix I would have thought.
Geoff

Yep! Dead easy installation which I was more than willing to do, just like I
did the first one. I just didn't feel too good about paying for one that
was supposed to work, then buying a second one that was also supposed to
work, yet each of them failed with only a few minutes (less than an hour in
both cases) of service. At what point was I supposed to quit buying
switches @ almost $20 each? The second one was more than enough for me.
It will be cheaper to risk a HF unit, I fear. Local pawn shops had
nothing. Very small community, though. Sigh~

Harold

Going back 20 years or so the Craftsman drills were made by Singer.The
Singer division was called Kearfott.While working on their phone trunk
lines I asked them if this was true,the answer was yes.

Going back 20 years or so the Craftsman drills were made by Singer.The
Singer division was called Kearfott.While working on their phone trunk
lines I asked them if this was true,the answer was yes.

I've never seen a Craftsman drill made by Singer. Most of the stuff from that
period was Ryobi or B&D. Another company would be shown by the model number,
and I've only seen sewing machines with the Singer prefix. No Kearfott in any
product.

GTO(John)

GTO69RA4 wrote:
Going back 20 years or so the Craftsman drills were made by Singer.The
Singer division was called Kearfott.While working on their phone trunk
lines I asked them if this was true,the answer was yes.


I've never seen a Craftsman drill made by Singer. Most of the stuff from that
period was Ryobi or B&D. Another company would be shown by the model number,
and I've only seen sewing machines with the Singer prefix. No Kearfott in any
product.

GTO(John)

Sorry but Singer did make a lot of Craftsman drills.
Right here in Pickens, SC at the old sewing machine cabinet factory.

The same factory was sold to Ryobi and now to OWL.
The made a few other brand names as well.

Howard
Pickens, SC

The same factory was sold to Ryobi and now to OWL.
The made a few other brand names as well.

Howard
Pickens, SC

So these were the drills with the 315 prefix all these years? The sheets I've
seen only list Ryobi for that number.

GTO(John)

A quick search on Google turns up a number of hits claiming that Singer made
all sorts of things for Sears besides sewing machines. One in particular is
rather believable. It is a recall notice from the Consumer Products Safety
Commission for a Craftsman hedge trimmer that was made by Singer. The
release is dated 4/14/1985.

Robert

"GTO69RA4" wrote in message
...
Going back 20 years or so the Craftsman drills were made by Singer.The
Singer division was called Kearfott.While working on their phone trunk
lines I asked them if this was true,the answer was yes.

I've never seen a Craftsman drill made by Singer. Most of the stuff from
that
period was Ryobi or B&D. Another company would be shown by the model
number,
and I've only seen sewing machines with the Singer prefix. No Kearfott in
any
product.

GTO(John)

A quick search on Google turns up a number of hits claiming that Singer made
all sorts of things for Sears besides sewing machines. One in particular is
rather believable. It is a recall notice from the Consumer Products Safety
Commission for a Craftsman hedge trimmer that was made by Singer. The
release is dated 4/14/1985.

Robert

Thanks, I looked it up. The sheets I'm looking at don't seem to cover past
companies that used the 315 model number.

GTO(John)

(ED ROGERS) wrote in message ...
Going back 20 years or so the Craftsman drills were made by Singer.The
Singer division was called Kearfott.While working on their phone trunk
lines I asked them if this was true,the answer was yes.
Singer makes a lot of things that you would not associate with a
sewing machine company. For instance guidance systems for ICBM.

Dan

On 25 Nov 2004 09:02:13 -0800, the renowned (Dan
Caster) wrote:

(ED ROGERS) wrote in message ...
Going back 20 years or so the Craftsman drills were made by Singer.The
Singer division was called Kearfott.While working on their phone trunk
lines I asked them if this was true,the answer was yes.
Singer makes a lot of things that you would not associate with a
sewing machine company. For instance guidance systems for ICBM.

Dan

Singer pretty much went TU around 1990, and the Singer name and a
bunch of their divisions were sold off to a Canadian-based company
called Semi-Tech Microelectronics run by a young Chinese-Canadian (and
reputed in the investment industry to have a lot of mainland China
money behind it). Which is probably partly why today you see the
Singer name stuck on all sorts of China-made stuff.

That didn't include the missile stuff- I think that became Bicoastal
Corp.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

There are so many old American brand names that have licensed out their
name.Polaroid,Borden,ITT,Timex are just a few who sold out.Philips sold
Sylvania,Philco rights to electronic firms who could not sell well under
their own name.Just about all the mainland China sets sold here are made
by TCL.The sad part is this licensing usually leads to ersatz quality of
goods.

GTO69RA4 wrote:
A quick search on Google turns up a number of hits claiming that Singer made
all sorts of things for Sears besides sewing machines. One in particular is
rather believable. It is a recall notice from the Consumer Products Safety
Commission for a Craftsman hedge trimmer that was made by Singer. The
release is dated 4/14/1985.

Robert


Thanks, I looked it up. The sheets I'm looking at don't seem to cover past
companies that used the 315 model number.

GTO(John)
Back around '75 I worked in a Singer plant that made small machine tools
for Sears. I remember circular saws and drills. Even wound the motors
there, had the job of running a motor winder and varnisher while in college.

Bob Yates wrote in
nk.net:

Back around '75 I worked in a Singer plant that made small machine
tools for Sears. I remember circular saws and drills. Even wound the
motors there, had the job of running a motor winder and varnisher
while in college.



You made some _very_ good ones - I'm still using my old "Craftsman
Commercial" aluminum-housed saw & 3/8" drill that were made by Singer.

The B&D-made units wear out but the old Singers just keep on working and
working and ...