Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

Gunner


You know it doesn't age gracefully, yes?
LLoyd

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 06:50:05 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

Gunner


You know it doesn't age gracefully, yes?
LLoyd
I've got several 35 foot chunks of full sheilded 6 up here in Ontario
Canada, but you can buy it in Cali for less than the shipping cost
form Ontario Canada.

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 06:50:05 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

Gunner


You know it doesn't age gracefully, yes?
LLoyd

No? Gets a bit stiff..shrug...what else does it do?

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:41:44 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 06:50:05 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
m:

Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

Gunner


You know it doesn't age gracefully, yes?
LLoyd
I've got several 35 foot chunks of full sheilded 6 up here in Ontario
Canada, but you can buy it in Cali for less than the shipping cost
form Ontario Canada.

Thanks, but Im trying to find a single piece that I can cut assorted
lengths from. "Insert into top of mast. Fish to bottom, exit bottom
of mast and install PL-259 on each ends. Continue to next boat"


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

No? Gets a bit stiff..shrug...what else does it do?

Gets a bit leaky, too, and the characteristic impedance changes with age,
making it hard to tune into a matched load well.

LLoyd

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 06:10:13 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

No? Gets a bit stiff..shrug...what else does it do?

Gets a bit leaky, too, and the characteristic impedance changes with age,
making it hard to tune into a matched load well.

LLoyd

What do you suggest for this application?

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 07:26:01 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 06:10:13 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
m:

No? Gets a bit stiff..shrug...what else does it do?

Gets a bit leaky, too, and the characteristic impedance changes with age,
making it hard to tune into a matched load well.

LLoyd

What do you suggest for this application?

Gunner

Get marine-rated RG8. The covering is more water-resistant. If it's
exposed to sunlight, it will last longer than RG58. And stay away from
anything with which you can see the inner insulation through the
braid. It will be lossy and it's unlikely to last in a marine
environment.

RG58 with a good, dense braid, in the relatively short lengths you'll
be using, is likely to perform better than RG8 with a less-dense
braid.

--
Ed Huntress
KC2NZT

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

What do you suggest for this application?

RG8 is the better choice of the two. It's usually foam-core, and low-loss.
It's also got a little faster (lower) velocity factor than RG58, making it
lower-loss over a given length of run.

Ham radio rule-of-thumb: Even with cheap, homebrew antennae, NEVER skip on
the feed-line. Use the best you can afford, because most of your operating
power losses are there, not in the antenna.

LLoyd

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

RG58 with a good, dense braid, in the relatively short lengths you'll
be using, is likely to perform better than RG8 with a less-dense
braid.

Yep. I'd agree with that, with the minor exception that almost all of
them now use a foil outer conductor, and the braid is more to keep
everything tight and conductive than to provide the "shielding" function,
as it did in prior times.

But Gunner, he's right. Buy the BEST feedline you can afford for any
given job. That's where your power losses will be, and you can't really
ever get that power back, even with a so-called "positive gain" antenna.
(anybody who actually believes you can feed 12 watts into a 6dB 'gain'
antenna and get an effective 50 watts out hasn't really run the math.)

Plus... those losses work both ways, reducing received signal strenght by
a similar factor.

LLoyd

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 22:22:32 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:41:44 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 06:50:05 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

Gunner


You know it doesn't age gracefully, yes?
LLoyd
I've got several 35 foot chunks of full sheilded 6 up here in Ontario
Canada, but you can buy it in Cali for less than the shipping cost
form Ontario Canada.

Thanks, but Im trying to find a single piece that I can cut assorted
lengths from. "Insert into top of mast. Fish to bottom, exit bottom
of mast and install PL-259 on each ends. Continue to next boat"

Premade 100' cables are $20+16/30+10s/h ($36-40 each) on eBay. Got
PL-259s and crimpers? Make one stretch.

But, yeah, $5 for a hank of cable would be a much nicer deal. Water
seems to be the deciding factor on longevity of the coax. Keep the
ends dry and they'll last a long time.

--
Now therefore, be it Resolved by the Fiftieth Annual Convention
of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, That we
hereby declare that we are unalterably opposed to any program
which would entail the surrender of any part of the sovereignty
of the United States of America in favor of a world government.

--Veterans of Foreign Wars

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Keep the
ends dry and they'll last a long time.


UV affects them, too (not only the 'brittleness' of the sheath, but the
plasticizers and solvents that work their way into the core, changing the
characteristic impedance). Once IN the mast, that's not a problem (only
moisture, then), but how was it stored/kept prior? If it's not virgin
cable from a reputable source, you just don't know.

I guess it depends upon whether this is a project to make the boat
"sellable", or if it's an attempt to maximize propagation.

Lloyd

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 06:10:13 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

No? Gets a bit stiff..shrug...what else does it do?

Gets a bit leaky, too, and the characteristic impedance changes with age,
making it hard to tune into a matched load well.

Would Gunner's short-range use (locally in lakes) make much difference
in the effect of an old cable? Impedance tuning usually affects
range, right? It has been a long time since I was exposed to much RF
chatter (QA @ Southcom, Intl. ca. 1975)

FYI, I ran across an old (Swan?) SWR meter at a Goodwill type store
for $2 last October and couldn't let it sit there. I figured that it
might come in handy later, in a top-down world.

--
Now therefore, be it Resolved by the Fiftieth Annual Convention
of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, That we
hereby declare that we are unalterably opposed to any program
which would entail the surrender of any part of the sovereignty
of the United States of America in favor of a world government.

--Veterans of Foreign Wars

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Would Gunner's short-range use (locally in lakes) make much difference
in the effect of an old cable? Impedance tuning usually affects
range, right? It has been a long time since I was exposed to much RF
chatter (QA @ Southcom, Intl. ca. 1975)

Maybe not, but if they're ever used as ocean-going craft, it could.
People routinely go outside their "range" of either distance or
competence.

Why skimp on "the critical link"?

Cable isn't that expensive! (although it can exceed the cost of the load
at the end of the run...)

Lloyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

What do you suggest for this application?

RG8 is the better choice of the two. It's usually foam-core, and low-loss.
It's also got a little faster (lower) velocity factor than RG58, making it
lower-loss over a given length of run.

Ham radio rule-of-thumb: Even with cheap, homebrew antennae, NEVER skip on
the feed-line. Use the best you can afford, because most of your operating
power losses are there, not in the antenna.

LLoyd



A length of 3/4" helix is would solve all your problems.

John

John fired this volley in news:i6qdne64-
:

A length of 3/4" helix is would solve all your problems.

Or dry-nitrogen flooded rigid co-ax! 'Done a few of those lines on 'real'
transmission towers.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 4.170:

Or dry-nitrogen flooded rigid co-ax! 'Done a few of those lines on
'real' transmission towers.

I should have also said "helium-filled", but that gets into another realm!

Lloyd

On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 8:07:20 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

What do you suggest for this application?

RG8 is the better choice of the two. It's usually foam-core, and low-loss.
It's also got a little faster (lower) velocity factor than RG58, making it
lower-loss over a given length of run.

Ham radio rule-of-thumb: Even with cheap, homebrew antennae, NEVER skip on
the feed-line. Use the best you can afford, because most of your operating
power losses are there, not in the antenna.

LLoyd



A length of 3/4" helix is would solve all your problems.

John

I have a hundred feet of that in storage left over from a cell repeater job. I don't think Gunner could even afford the connectors, let alone the cable.

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:53:57 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Keep the
ends dry and they'll last a long time.


UV affects them, too (not only the 'brittleness' of the sheath, but the
plasticizers and solvents that work their way into the core, changing the
characteristic impedance). Once IN the mast, that's not a problem (only
moisture, then), but how was it stored/kept prior? If it's not virgin
cable from a reputable source, you just don't know.

I guess it depends upon whether this is a project to make the boat
"sellable", or if it's an attempt to maximize propagation.

Lloyd

Not selling them...just setting them up to Use them

Im not terribly concerned about ultra long range propagation...Im only
lake and bay sailing


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 10:39:24 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

What do you suggest for this application?

RG8 is the better choice of the two. It's usually foam-core, and low-loss.
It's also got a little faster (lower) velocity factor than RG58, making it
lower-loss over a given length of run.

Ham radio rule-of-thumb: Even with cheap, homebrew antennae, NEVER skip on
the feed-line. Use the best you can afford, because most of your operating
power losses are there, not in the antenna.

LLoyd

Ayup..knew that. Ive had reasonbly good luck using RG8x..the mini
version of plainjane RG8...but wasnt looking for DX capable radios.
The antennas are mounted at least 25' above the water...so some loss
wasnt a big concern


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 2015-03-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

I don't have spare. I need to buy more at the next hamfest.

But for marine use -- some caveats.

1) Best to use crimp connectors, not solder.

2) Heat-shrink sleeving over the crimped ferrule.

2) *especially* -- look for self-sealing tape to wrap where the
wire enters the connector, and over the whole area where the
connector goes into the antenna at that end of things. this is
important enough on an antenna on a tower where it gets rained
on, but our where salt water is involved -- even mores so.

Good Luck
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2015-03-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:41:44 -0500, wrote:

[ ... ]

I've got several 35 foot chunks of full sheilded 6 up here in Ontario
Canada, but you can buy it in Cali for less than the shipping cost
form Ontario Canada.

Thanks, but Im trying to find a single piece that I can cut assorted
lengths from. "Insert into top of mast. Fish to bottom, exit bottom
of mast and install PL-259 on each ends. Continue to next boat"

Arrrggghhh! The PL-259 is the worst connector for weather
conditions of any in common use. Especially the one at the top of the
mast. At least the solder versions of PL-259 tend to wick up water
where the shield is soldered to the outer body. Crime is a bit better,
but the seal where it screws onto the other connector is not watertight.
A BNC or a Type-N have a resilient rubber seal inside the connector to
keep water out of the mated pair.

You can probably get away with the PL-259 inside the cabin out
of the weather, but the other connectors are better there, too.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 3 Mar 2015 04:57:19 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2015-03-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:41:44 -0500, wrote:

[ ... ]

I've got several 35 foot chunks of full sheilded 6 up here in Ontario
Canada, but you can buy it in Cali for less than the shipping cost
form Ontario Canada.

Thanks, but Im trying to find a single piece that I can cut assorted
lengths from. "Insert into top of mast. Fish to bottom, exit bottom
of mast and install PL-259 on each ends. Continue to next boat"

Arrrggghhh! The PL-259 is the worst connector for weather
conditions of any in common use. Especially the one at the top of the
mast. At least the solder versions of PL-259 tend to wick up water
where the shield is soldered to the outer body. Crime is a bit better,
but the seal where it screws onto the other connector is not watertight.
A BNC or a Type-N have a resilient rubber seal inside the connector to
keep water out of the mated pair.

You can probably get away with the PL-259 inside the cabin out
of the weather, but the other connectors are better there, too.

Good Luck,
DoN.

True enough..but virtually all VHF marine band antennas use the PL259.
As well as CB radios, most ham rigs etc etc. Its been the defacto
default for 50 or more years.

Whenever I do a male/female PL-259...the connectors get some
silicone..inside and out...and then the whole thing gets a bit of
shrink wrapped tubing properly installed. No matter if its on a
boat..or a bumper of a pickup.

This isnt my first rodeo. While Im not a professional RF tech..far
from it...I did get my first ham ticket in 1968....shrug

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:32:30 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:53:57 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
m:

Keep the
ends dry and they'll last a long time.


UV affects them, too (not only the 'brittleness' of the sheath, but the
plasticizers and solvents that work their way into the core, changing the
characteristic impedance). Once IN the mast, that's not a problem (only
moisture, then), but how was it stored/kept prior? If it's not virgin
cable from a reputable source, you just don't know.

I guess it depends upon whether this is a project to make the boat
"sellable", or if it's an attempt to maximize propagation.

Lloyd

Not selling them...just setting them up to Use them

Im not terribly concerned about ultra long range propagation...Im only
lake and bay sailing

Do they make whips for console radios? You don't really need the
height for local chat. 1' and 3' whips run from $15 on up.

Will these work?

http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra

http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl


--
Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplacable spark.

In the hopeless swamps of the not quite, the not yet, and
the not at all, do not let the hero in your soul perish
and leave only frustration for the life you deserved, but
never have been able to reach.

The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real,
it is possible, it is yours.
-- Ayn Rand

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:07:12 -0500, John
wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

What do you suggest for this application?

RG8 is the better choice of the two. It's usually foam-core, and low-loss.
It's also got a little faster (lower) velocity factor than RG58, making it
lower-loss over a given length of run.

Ham radio rule-of-thumb: Even with cheap, homebrew antennae, NEVER skip on
the feed-line. Use the best you can afford, because most of your operating
power losses are there, not in the antenna.

LLoyd



A length of 3/4" helix is would solve all your problems.

John

Keep in mind that on my boats..they remain on their trailers 99% of
the time, then are taken to the lake, assembled in 15 or so minutes,
used 6-48 hrs. then disassembled and brought back home

If I had a boat in a $lip at a marina somewhere, Id be doing a lot of
things differently..not just the antenna wiring

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 3 Mar 2015 04:51:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2015-03-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
Im getting ready to install radios (VHF marine and CB) in my sailboats
and am needing at least 100-200 feet of the above coax. Looking for
cheap prices/swap/trade

I don't have spare. I need to buy more at the next hamfest.

But for marine use -- some caveats.

1) Best to use crimp connectors, not solder.

2) Heat-shrink sleeving over the crimped ferrule.

2) *especially* -- look for self-sealing tape to wrap where the
wire enters the connector, and over the whole area where the
connector goes into the antenna at that end of things. this is
important enough on an antenna on a tower where it gets rained
on, but our where salt water is involved -- even mores so.

Good Luck
DoN.

Indeed!

Though to be fair..99% or more of my sailing is on freshwater...and
has to be able to be rigged up and down in 20 minutes or less.



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:10:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:32:30 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:53:57 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Keep the
ends dry and they'll last a long time.


UV affects them, too (not only the 'brittleness' of the sheath, but the
plasticizers and solvents that work their way into the core, changing the
characteristic impedance). Once IN the mast, that's not a problem (only
moisture, then), but how was it stored/kept prior? If it's not virgin
cable from a reputable source, you just don't know.

I guess it depends upon whether this is a project to make the boat
"sellable", or if it's an attempt to maximize propagation.

Lloyd

Not selling them...just setting them up to Use them

Im not terribly concerned about ultra long range propagation...Im only
lake and bay sailing

Do they make whips for console radios? You don't really need the
height for local chat. 1' and 3' whips run from $15 on up.

Will these work?

This one is an AM/FM music type radio antenna
http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra


This one is a proper marine antenna.
http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl

Something to keep in mind...is deck space.

My little Windrose 18 is only 18 feet long. The deck has the mast, all
the shrouds, the rudder, the outboard motor, the jib/genoa sail
sweeping the forward 1/3-1/2 of the deck, the movable hatchway,
any/all ropes and lines that come to the cockpit..and the cockpit
itself.

There are wide open spaces on top of the deck......until there isnt
as the sail sweeps that portion of the deck while changing
directionis. It can get pretty busy up there so far as space to put
Stuff attached to the boat. Add a bbq to the stern of the boat..
http://www.magmaproducts.com/
(one of my clients btw)

fishing rod holders, grandchildren to hold said rods, sodas, an
outboard motor and its controls (and fuel tank), fenders, other lines
(to hold the fenders and to tie to the dock) etc etc, rails and safety
lines (grand kids remember) and places one can put Stuff have to be
plotted out pretty carefuly.

This doesnt include futzing with boat trim either...weight forward/to
the stern/port/starboard etc etc

That also means an anchor (generally on the bow pulpit and the rope
its attached to...lol) and so forth. Add a couple kids or
adults..and it can get really cozy for space to mount stuff

So putting the antenna on top of the mast (with the wind direction
indicator, any wind Speed sensors etc etc) can help clear up
some..some space down on deck

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/articl...oat%20mast.jpg

http://www2.worldpub.net/images/sw/1...update_368.jpg

http://uk.boats.com/boat-content/201...r-deck-layout/

If sailboats were like bass boats...laugh..it would be easy to stick
Stuff anywhere you want it.

Half the fun of rigging a sailboat is doing it effiently so one can go
sailing without ripping the bbq out of the deck and tossing it into
the water..or ripping one of the grand kids OFF the deck and pitching
it into the water (Grin)

Then there is cabin layout..inside...another interesting
challenge...lol
Ice chests, stove, sleeping layouts, spare sails, fishing rods, nets,
portapotti, sleeping bags, clothing, electrical gear (AM/FM/MP3 stereo
system, VHF radio, CB radio, batteries, chargers, solar panels,
diapers (blech!) etc etc.

Think of it as putting a machine shop in a small garage or cargo
container..where you cant drill holes in the walls..least not
easily...LOL

Im rigging the Windrose 18 to be a "single handed sailer" which means
everything comes back to the cockpit so I dont have to crawl all over
the top of the boat to raise/lower (3) sails, adjust sail trim, raise
and lower the centerboard, steer, grab a Dew from the cooler, chat on
the radio(s), change to a new music source etc etc etc.

Thats half the fun of doing a restoration/upgrade......the boats came
out of the factory back in the 60s/70s/80s rigged as simple and as
cheaply as possible to meet buyers ability to pay and a lot of Stuff
then, was not considered a necessity as it is today (cooler, music
radio, batteries to run all the electronics..a charger and solar panel
to keep them charged...etc etc Hell..finding a place for a laptop
was never an issue way back then..it can be today with all the
computer navigation systems in everybodys hands (which I wont be
needing..until I go to the ocean for a week)

(Grin)

Gunner, who is recovering from having 9 teeth pulled Monday along with
jaw bone grinding in preperation for dentures



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:13:37 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:
Though to be fair..99% or more of my sailing is on freshwater...and
has to be able to be rigged up and down in 20 minutes or less.

That's one more reason to avoid an antenna on the mast, isn't it?
I'm surprised you don't have a portable instead.

--
Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplacable spark.

In the hopeless swamps of the not quite, the not yet, and
the not at all, do not let the hero in your soul perish
and leave only frustration for the life you deserved, but
never have been able to reach.

The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real,
it is possible, it is yours.
-- Ayn Rand

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 08:02:41 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:13:37 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:
Though to be fair..99% or more of my sailing is on freshwater...and
has to be able to be rigged up and down in 20 minutes or less.

That's one more reason to avoid an antenna on the mast, isn't it?
I'm surprised you don't have a portable instead.

Oh I do have a portable. I have one of the Boafeng UV-B6 handy talky

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baofeng-UV-8...-/181218958915

But I managed to purchase (3) decent 25 watt marine radios a couple
years ago on Ebay...

Apelco VXL 7000 ($36 including shipping) (still in box)
Apelco 5160A ($31 including shipping) (NOS) In my Ensenada 20
Uniden Solara ($27 including shipping) (NOS) (probably going in the
Windrose 18)

I have a small antenna on the stern of the Venture 24.
I have (2) 8' Shakerspear antennas on the shelf..but they are pretty
freaking big. and need special mountings..of which I have (2)

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/shakes...ft-6db--159306
($10 each at a yard sale in Newport Beach)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boat-Antenna...-/381174202522

I will probably..probably mount one of these 8 footers and the folding
mast base (above) on the Windrose 18...all the way to the stern
starboard corner so I can fold it down when I rig down at the end of a
day at the lake..but its rediculously long for a small lake and just
another thing to get in the way. I could put a US flag on it I
suppose...shrug. But I still need at least 4 waterproof wire "feed
throughs" for the fishfinder cables and the coax from the antennas. I
try to buy enough for each boat with every "update". I bought (2)
fishfinders on Ebay last year..got damned good prices on them...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ritchie-HB-7...-/400732031239
PLUS!!
Hummingbird LCR-4000 (complete and working fine) $35 shipping
included (VBG)

and a Hummingbird Wide 100
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Humminbird-W...-/161619369753
$25 shipping included with all gear. ready to mount.

I think..think I have a third out there..may have come with the
Venture24. I think its a Lowrance..Shrug

I took each unit out to the California aquaduct last December and
dropped the transducers over the side of the bridge and turned em on
to make sure that they were working properly. They were. Saw some big
fish in there too!..and as I recall...the bottom was exactly 17 feet
down below the water line...on all the units..works for me.

I also bought one of these for $8 plus $10 shipping and when it
came..I found it in NOS condition.... had the remote antenna, the
remote 12vt power case..all..all the bells and whistles which one
hardly finds on Ebay. And it had just been updated at Magellan.With
all the manuals, directions, mounting templates etc etc. Boat store
going out of business in Kansas IRRC and it was in a clearence
auction. And of course it works...took me a few hours to figure it all
out.,.even with the manuals.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MAGE...-/301549718376

I hardly need it on the little lake boat..but its certainly impressive
(Grin) and it will be nice on the big boat when I take it to the ocean
for weekend trips. And it even has a "man over board" button..someone
goes over the side..you hit the button..and it will lead you back to
where they went into the drink (subject to winds and tides of course)

My "Master Scrounger":talents have stood me well in the boat hobby as
well as the machine tool hobby....

Now I just need a pair of canoe paddles for the Grumman 17' aluminum
canoe I wound up with 2 yrs ago......hummmmm

I did buy a Magellan Trailblazer XL handheld gps last weekend at a
yard sale for $8. Works...but evidently the satellites have changed
since 1996 and will only log onto (2) of them. Shrug. Win
some..loose some.

Though..I did pick up a Garmin handheld at a yard sale last August
for $5. Works fine
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GARMIN-ETREX...-/141586010533

So Im out $8...whimper....

Gunner









"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 06:32:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:10:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:32:30 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:53:57 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
m:

Keep the
ends dry and they'll last a long time.


UV affects them, too (not only the 'brittleness' of the sheath, but the
plasticizers and solvents that work their way into the core, changing the
characteristic impedance). Once IN the mast, that's not a problem (only
moisture, then), but how was it stored/kept prior? If it's not virgin
cable from a reputable source, you just don't know.

I guess it depends upon whether this is a project to make the boat
"sellable", or if it's an attempt to maximize propagation.

Lloyd

Not selling them...just setting them up to Use them

Im not terribly concerned about ultra long range propagation...Im only
lake and bay sailing

Do they make whips for console radios? You don't really need the
height for local chat. 1' and 3' whips run from $15 on up.

Will these work?

This one is an AM/FM music type radio antenna
http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra


This one is a proper marine antenna.
http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl

Something to keep in mind...is deck space.

My little Windrose 18 is only 18 feet long. The deck has the mast, all
the shrouds, the rudder, the outboard motor, the jib/genoa sail
sweeping the forward 1/3-1/2 of the deck, the movable hatchway,
any/all ropes and lines that come to the cockpit..and the cockpit
itself.

There are wide open spaces on top of the deck......until there isnt
as the sail sweeps that portion of the deck while changing
directionis. It can get pretty busy up there so far as space to put
Stuff attached to the boat. Add a bbq to the stern of the boat..
http://www.magmaproducts.com/
(one of my clients btw)

fishing rod holders, grandchildren to hold said rods, sodas, an
outboard motor and its controls (and fuel tank), fenders, other lines
(to hold the fenders and to tie to the dock) etc etc, rails and safety
lines (grand kids remember) and places one can put Stuff have to be
plotted out pretty carefuly.

This doesnt include futzing with boat trim either...weight forward/to
the stern/port/starboard etc etc

That also means an anchor (generally on the bow pulpit and the rope
its attached to...lol) and so forth. Add a couple kids or
adults..and it can get really cozy for space to mount stuff

So putting the antenna on top of the mast (with the wind direction
indicator, any wind Speed sensors etc etc) can help clear up
some..some space down on deck

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/articl...oat%20mast.jpg

http://www2.worldpub.net/images/sw/1...update_368.jpg

http://uk.boats.com/boat-content/201...r-deck-layout/

If sailboats were like bass boats...laugh..it would be easy to stick
Stuff anywhere you want it.

Half the fun of rigging a sailboat is doing it effiently so one can go
sailing without ripping the bbq out of the deck and tossing it into
the water..or ripping one of the grand kids OFF the deck and pitching
it into the water (Grin)

Then there is cabin layout..inside...another interesting
challenge...lol
Ice chests, stove, sleeping layouts, spare sails, fishing rods, nets,
portapotti, sleeping bags, clothing, electrical gear (AM/FM/MP3 stereo
system, VHF radio, CB radio, batteries, chargers, solar panels,
diapers (blech!) etc etc.

Think of it as putting a machine shop in a small garage or cargo
container..where you cant drill holes in the walls..least not
easily...LOL

Im rigging the Windrose 18 to be a "single handed sailer" which means
everything comes back to the cockpit so I dont have to crawl all over
the top of the boat to raise/lower (3) sails, adjust sail trim, raise
and lower the centerboard, steer, grab a Dew from the cooler, chat on
the radio(s), change to a new music source etc etc etc.

Thats half the fun of doing a restoration/upgrade......the boats came
out of the factory back in the 60s/70s/80s rigged as simple and as
cheaply as possible to meet buyers ability to pay and a lot of Stuff
then, was not considered a necessity as it is today (cooler, music
radio, batteries to run all the electronics..a charger and solar panel
to keep them charged...etc etc Hell..finding a place for a laptop
was never an issue way back then..it can be today with all the
computer navigation systems in everybodys hands (which I wont be
needing..until I go to the ocean for a week)

(Grin)

I can't imagine what you want a wind speed transmitter for, but a
simple wind vane type of wind direction gizmo is a good addition.

But I think that you are building in a lot of complexities. You can
easily put a wind vane on the mast head as well as a whip antenna. Run
the antenna feed down the inside of the mast and out through a
grommeted hole 6 - 12 inches from the bottom. Terminate the feed with
a coax connector. Run the feed from your radio through the deck close
to the mast fitting on the cabin top through a compression gland and
terminate in the other end of the connection.
http://anchormarineshop.com/s/1/p/147512
Take it apart to lower the mast.

I used foam core RG-8 on my last boat that lasted for 15 years with no
noticeable loss in power.

Re single handing. Certainly run the sheets back to the cockpit but I
found that trying to run every line back to the cockpit wasn't all it
was cracked up to be. Routing the halyards through several blocks and
changing direction a couple of times means that they get hard to pull
and you might need a winch to tension the main. If the idea is to
douse the sails quickly in a sudden storm then you will need downhauls
on the sails as in a big wind they can't be depended on to come down
and stay down by themselves.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 06:32:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:10:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Will these work?

This one is an AM/FM music type radio antenna
http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra

Yeah, I wondered about the termination connector. g


This one is a proper marine antenna.
http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl

Something to keep in mind...is deck space.

My little Windrose 18 is only 18 feet long. The deck has the mast, all
the shrouds, the rudder, the outboard motor, the jib/genoa sail
sweeping the forward 1/3-1/2 of the deck, the movable hatchway,
any/all ropes and lines that come to the cockpit..and the cockpit
itself.

How far away from the mast does the antenna have to be? Could you put
it close to the mast (just forward) and maybe put a guide around it to
keep the genoa or jib off it?


There are wide open spaces on top of the deck......until there isnt
as the sail sweeps that portion of the deck while changing
directionis. It can get pretty busy up there so far as space to put
Stuff attached to the boat. Add a bbq to the stern of the boat..
http://www.magmaproducts.com/
(one of my clients btw)

Prolly not more than $8 or $10k, eh?


fishing rod holders, grandchildren to hold said rods, sodas, an
outboard motor and its controls (and fuel tank), fenders, other lines
(to hold the fenders and to tie to the dock) etc etc, rails and safety
lines (grand kids remember) and places one can put Stuff have to be
plotted out pretty carefuly.

This doesnt include futzing with boat trim either...weight forward/to
the stern/port/starboard etc etc

That also means an anchor (generally on the bow pulpit and the rope
its attached to...lol) and so forth. Add a couple kids or
adults..and it can get really cozy for space to mount stuff

So putting the antenna on top of the mast (with the wind direction
indicator, any wind Speed sensors etc etc) can help clear up
some..some space down on deck

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/articl...oat%20mast.jpg

http://www2.worldpub.net/images/sw/1...update_368.jpg

http://uk.boats.com/boat-content/201...r-deck-layout/

If sailboats were like bass boats...laugh..it would be easy to stick
Stuff anywhere you want it.

Like cup holders?


Half the fun of rigging a sailboat is doing it effiently so one can go
sailing without ripping the bbq out of the deck and tossing it into
the water..or ripping one of the grand kids OFF the deck and pitching
it into the water (Grin)

Then there is cabin layout..inside...another interesting
challenge...lol
Ice chests, stove, sleeping layouts, spare sails, fishing rods, nets,
portapotti, sleeping bags, clothing, electrical gear (AM/FM/MP3 stereo
system, VHF radio, CB radio, batteries, chargers, solar panels,
diapers (blech!) etc etc.

Who needs diapers and other noise on a sailboat?


Think of it as putting a machine shop in a small garage or cargo
container..where you cant drill holes in the walls..least not
easily...LOL

Welll, clams for running lines through the top of the cabin are
available all over the place. Being on the roof, it is as far from
the water as possible, and clams are rainproof, wot?


Im rigging the Windrose 18 to be a "single handed sailer" which means
everything comes back to the cockpit so I dont have to crawl all over
the top of the boat to raise/lower (3) sails, adjust sail trim, raise
and lower the centerboard, steer, grab a Dew from the cooler, chat on
the radio(s), change to a new music source etc etc etc.

The older I get, the less I listen to music. I prefer the silence (or
my tinnitus) to noise any day. I got out some records the other week
and realized it had been about a year since I listened to any. Once I
broke the TV habit, music was next. I do listen to music in the
truck, though. But on long trips, I often go hours without. Earplugs
in and pedal to the metal. YeeeeeHaw! g


Thats half the fun of doing a restoration/upgrade......the boats came
out of the factory back in the 60s/70s/80s rigged as simple and as
cheaply as possible to meet buyers ability to pay and a lot of Stuff
then, was not considered a necessity as it is today (cooler, music
radio, batteries to run all the electronics..a charger and solar panel
to keep them charged...etc etc Hell..finding a place for a laptop
was never an issue way back then..it can be today with all the
computer navigation systems in everybodys hands (which I wont be
needing..until I go to the ocean for a week)

(Grin)

You can get a nice portable 120w solar setup w/ controller for $235.
Well, plus battery and wiring. Speaking of batteries, I'd been
wondering how long it had been since I replaced my Tundra battery.
I don't remember doing it in the past 4 years, so I figured it was
getting time. Well, upon opening the hood, I found that it was the
original 2007 battery in there. I grabbed a new one (84mo Premium)
for $69 and decided to add the old one to the solar setup I have for
the rest of its lifetime. The core ding is only $12, and if it
doesn't last, I can always return it for the core charge. That's one
good battery!


Gunner, who is recovering from having 9 teeth pulled Monday along with
jaw bone grinding in preperation for dentures

My time for that is fast approaching. sigh Best of luck wi dat.
I understand that finding a good person to reline them is the key to a
happy life after dentures. (I don't doubt that we'll do that fitting
and relining ourselves in the near future. Do you?)

--
Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplacable spark.

In the hopeless swamps of the not quite, the not yet, and
the not at all, do not let the hero in your soul perish
and leave only frustration for the life you deserved, but
never have been able to reach.

The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real,
it is possible, it is yours.
-- Ayn Rand

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:02:56 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 06:32:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:10:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Will these work?

This one is an AM/FM music type radio antenna
http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra

Yeah, I wondered about the termination connector. g


This one is a proper marine antenna.
http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl

Something to keep in mind...is deck space.

My little Windrose 18 is only 18 feet long. The deck has the mast, all
the shrouds, the rudder, the outboard motor, the jib/genoa sail
sweeping the forward 1/3-1/2 of the deck, the movable hatchway,
any/all ropes and lines that come to the cockpit..and the cockpit
itself.

How far away from the mast does the antenna have to be? Could you put
it close to the mast (just forward) and maybe put a guide around it to
keep the genoa or jib off it?

As far away as possible..or above it. Putting an antenna in the path
of a regularly moving sail...is simple madness. Putting ANYTHING in
the path of a moving sail is madness..


There are wide open spaces on top of the deck......until there isnt
as the sail sweeps that portion of the deck while changing
directionis. It can get pretty busy up there so far as space to put
Stuff attached to the boat. Add a bbq to the stern of the boat..
http://www.magmaproducts.com/
(one of my clients btw)

Prolly not more than $8 or $10k, eh?

I was promised one for free. Shrug. Ill see when I get it. They are
about $140 or so new..least the propane powered ones..run off a 1lb
torch bottle, of which I have a couple CASES of. Came out of one of
the factories I shut down in the past 4 yrs.


fishing rod holders, grandchildren to hold said rods, sodas, an
outboard motor and its controls (and fuel tank), fenders, other lines
(to hold the fenders and to tie to the dock) etc etc, rails and safety
lines (grand kids remember) and places one can put Stuff have to be
plotted out pretty carefuly.

This doesnt include futzing with boat trim either...weight forward/to
the stern/port/starboard etc etc

That also means an anchor (generally on the bow pulpit and the rope
its attached to...lol) and so forth. Add a couple kids or
adults..and it can get really cozy for space to mount stuff

So putting the antenna on top of the mast (with the wind direction
indicator, any wind Speed sensors etc etc) can help clear up
some..some space down on deck

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/articl...oat%20mast.jpg

http://www2.worldpub.net/images/sw/1...update_368.jpg

http://uk.boats.com/boat-content/201...r-deck-layout/

If sailboats were like bass boats...laugh..it would be easy to stick
Stuff anywhere you want it.

Like cup holders?

Ayup. Exactly like cup holders. Nothing worse than your bud spilling
his beer inside the cockpit and then smelling it all day. Best thing
to do is take a bucket of water out of the lake and simply flush out
the cockpit. Yuck!



Half the fun of rigging a sailboat is doing it effiently so one can go
sailing without ripping the bbq out of the deck and tossing it into
the water..or ripping one of the grand kids OFF the deck and pitching
it into the water (Grin)

Then there is cabin layout..inside...another interesting
challenge...lol
Ice chests, stove, sleeping layouts, spare sails, fishing rods, nets,
portapotti, sleeping bags, clothing, electrical gear (AM/FM/MP3 stereo
system, VHF radio, CB radio, batteries, chargers, solar panels,
diapers (blech!) etc etc.

Who needs diapers and other noise on a sailboat?

Anybody with grandkids who wear diapers. Like me. Im hoping they
wait for a couple years before putting her in my
boat(s)...but...shrug. This WIndrose 18 is good for 4 people max in
the cockpit. The Venture 24 is rated at 8 adults. Big boat..big
cockpit..party barge.


Think of it as putting a machine shop in a small garage or cargo
container..where you cant drill holes in the walls..least not
easily...LOL

Welll, clams for running lines through the top of the cabin are
available all over the place. Being on the roof, it is as far from
the water as possible, and clams are rainproof, wot?

Clams? Clam Cleats?

http://content.answcdn.com/main/cont...g/f0059-02.png

I have "jam" cleats on the boat..and they will be changed out to Cam
or Clam cleats. I have about a dozen decent Clam Cleats out in the
sailboat cupboard. Im just trying to decide which ones I want to
use..cam or clam. I only have about 5 cam cleats...shrug.

None of them require penetrating the watertight structure..they just
grab the rope and keep it from moving.


Im rigging the Windrose 18 to be a "single handed sailer" which means
everything comes back to the cockpit so I dont have to crawl all over
the top of the boat to raise/lower (3) sails, adjust sail trim, raise
and lower the centerboard, steer, grab a Dew from the cooler, chat on
the radio(s), change to a new music source etc etc etc.

The older I get, the less I listen to music. I prefer the silence (or
my tinnitus) to noise any day. I got out some records the other week
and realized it had been about a year since I listened to any. Once I
broke the TV habit, music was next. I do listen to music in the
truck, though. But on long trips, I often go hours without. Earplugs
in and pedal to the metal. YeeeeeHaw! g

Same here. Ive got a decent AM/FM stereo out in the shop..and only
remember to turn it on if Im out there for more than an hour. In the
vehicle..its usually talk radio. But....my boats are very suitable for
getting laid in...so music is required..


Thats half the fun of doing a restoration/upgrade......the boats came
out of the factory back in the 60s/70s/80s rigged as simple and as
cheaply as possible to meet buyers ability to pay and a lot of Stuff
then, was not considered a necessity as it is today (cooler, music
radio, batteries to run all the electronics..a charger and solar panel
to keep them charged...etc etc Hell..finding a place for a laptop
was never an issue way back then..it can be today with all the
computer navigation systems in everybodys hands (which I wont be
needing..until I go to the ocean for a week)

(Grin)

You can get a nice portable 120w solar setup w/ controller for $235.
Well, plus battery and wiring. Speaking of batteries, I'd been
wondering how long it had been since I replaced my Tundra battery.
I don't remember doing it in the past 4 years, so I figured it was
getting time. Well, upon opening the hood, I found that it was the
original 2007 battery in there. I grabbed a new one (84mo Premium)
for $69 and decided to add the old one to the solar setup I have for
the rest of its lifetime. The core ding is only $12, and if it
doesn't last, I can always return it for the core charge. That's one
good battery!

I need (3) Series 24 or 27 Deep Cycle batteries. One for each boat. I
have a decent Chicom battery charger/solar switcher..
Tests well
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20A-MPPT-Sol...-/171112316078

just need solar cells. Ive got (8) that are 14x36" and put out 6
volts each. So if I double them up..in to a 36x36" panel...its a big
****ing thing to try to hang somewhere on the ass end of a boat. No
place else to put em. Im probably going to build an array here at the
homestead this summer and put them all into one package..run 48 volts
out of them into a battery bank. with an inverter. Replace one of my
backup gensets. We have something like 300 days of full sun here
every year..keeping batteries charged is not..not a problem.

Google search: "solar cell sailboat" and then hit "Images"

So Im needing a small 45 watt panel for the little Windrose 18. The
big Venture 24..not a problem with the big panels Ive got. They can go
on top of the Pop Top

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/solar...t-43892541.jpg

I need to start haunting the surplus electronic places again and see
what turns up. Ill find something.


Gunner, who is recovering from having 9 teeth pulled Monday along with
jaw bone grinding in preperation for dentures

My time for that is fast approaching. sigh Best of luck wi dat.
I understand that finding a good person to reline them is the key to a
happy life after dentures. (I don't doubt that we'll do that fitting
and relining ourselves in the near future. Do you?)

Ill wait at least 2 months from now before getting fitted for
dentures. It will give my mouth a chance to heal and to move around
until its reached the shape its gonna be for the rest of my life.
Wife had her uppers done..hummm 20 yrs ago...waited 6 months before
being fitted..still wearing the same dentures, no lining etc etc
needed. The dentist wanted to pull my teeth and then slap in the
moulds...and I told him not just no..but hell no! I told him I only
wanted to buy em once...not a bunch of times. He nodded and laughed in
agreement.

Ive been functional for the past 10 or so years with less than 9
teeth..I dont smile much..but it didnt break me financially either.
Now Im on state insurance...least until I find a better job..so Im
getting everything done that I can. I havent heard from the people
who I interviewed with for that Ross For Less warehouse maint job.

I suspect..they want someone younger...hence my earlier posting about
age discrimination..IE that link. They were/are hiring (4) maint guys
and I was told I was on the top of the list...but..neither I nor the
headhunter has heard back from them..so I suspect they found someone
half as skilled..but half the age. Shrug


Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:57:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:02:56 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 06:32:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:10:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Will these work?

This one is an AM/FM music type radio antenna
http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra

Yeah, I wondered about the termination connector. g


This one is a proper marine antenna.
http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl

Something to keep in mind...is deck space.

My little Windrose 18 is only 18 feet long. The deck has the mast, all
the shrouds, the rudder, the outboard motor, the jib/genoa sail
sweeping the forward 1/3-1/2 of the deck, the movable hatchway,
any/all ropes and lines that come to the cockpit..and the cockpit
itself.

How far away from the mast does the antenna have to be? Could you put
it close to the mast (just forward) and maybe put a guide around it to
keep the genoa or jib off it?

As far away as possible..or above it. Putting an antenna in the path
of a regularly moving sail...is simple madness. Putting ANYTHING in
the path of a moving sail is madness..

OK, to the side of the mast.


There are wide open spaces on top of the deck......until there isnt
as the sail sweeps that portion of the deck while changing
directionis. It can get pretty busy up there so far as space to put
Stuff attached to the boat. Add a bbq to the stern of the boat..
http://www.magmaproducts.com/
(one of my clients btw)

Prolly not more than $8 or $10k, eh?

I was promised one for free. Shrug. Ill see when I get it. They are
about $140 or so new..least the propane powered ones..run off a 1lb
torch bottle, of which I have a couple CASES of. Came out of one of
the factories I shut down in the past 4 yrs.

It's a real Bummer, having to shut down manufacturing.


Like cup holders?

Ayup. Exactly like cup holders. Nothing worse than your bud spilling
his beer inside the cockpit and then smelling it all day. Best thing
to do is take a bucket of water out of the lake and simply flush out
the cockpit. Yuck!

That's as bad as mouse pee inside equipment. I was kidding about the
cup holder thing, though, after being in stitches reading all the new
car specs back in 2006. It seems that no vehicle made could be sold
without gazillions of cup holders stuck _everywhere_. Ashtray/CH,
door handle/CH, tailgate/CH, underhood cupholders. Ayieeeeeeeeee!


Who needs diapers and other noise on a sailboat?

Anybody with grandkids who wear diapers. Like me. Im hoping they
wait for a couple years before putting her in my
boat(s)...but...shrug. This WIndrose 18 is good for 4 people max in
the cockpit. The Venture 24 is rated at 8 adults. Big boat..big
cockpit..party barge.

cringe Well, have fun!


Think of it as putting a machine shop in a small garage or cargo
container..where you cant drill holes in the walls..least not
easily...LOL

Welll, clams for running lines through the top of the cabin are
available all over the place. Being on the roof, it is as far from
the water as possible, and clams are rainproof, wot?

Clams? Clam Cleats?

http://content.answcdn.com/main/cont...g/f0059-02.png

No, clam watertight bulkhead feedthrus. It was one of the things
which came up on the "also bought" list when I was looking at antennas
for you. Farkin' marine terminology. When I searched for "feedthru"
I got nothing, and "feedthrough" gave me trim tab kits and thrusters.


None of them require penetrating the watertight structure..they just
grab the rope and keep it from moving.


Im rigging the Windrose 18 to be a "single handed sailer" which means
everything comes back to the cockpit so I dont have to crawl all over
the top of the boat to raise/lower (3) sails, adjust sail trim, raise
and lower the centerboard, steer, grab a Dew from the cooler, chat on
the radio(s), change to a new music source etc etc etc.

The older I get, the less I listen to music. I prefer the silence (or
my tinnitus) to noise any day. I got out some records the other week
and realized it had been about a year since I listened to any. Once I
broke the TV habit, music was next. I do listen to music in the
truck, though. But on long trips, I often go hours without. Earplugs
in and pedal to the metal. YeeeeeHaw! g

Same here. Ive got a decent AM/FM stereo out in the shop..and only
remember to turn it on if Im out there for more than an hour. In the
vehicle..its usually talk radio. But....my boats are very suitable for
getting laid in...so music is required..

In that case, by all means, install one! I had forgotten about the
"Wanna go to the submarine races?" aspect of boating. My bad.


Thats half the fun of doing a restoration/upgrade......the boats came
out of the factory back in the 60s/70s/80s rigged as simple and as
cheaply as possible to meet buyers ability to pay and a lot of Stuff
then, was not considered a necessity as it is today (cooler, music
radio, batteries to run all the electronics..a charger and solar panel
to keep them charged...etc etc Hell..finding a place for a laptop
was never an issue way back then..it can be today with all the
computer navigation systems in everybodys hands (which I wont be
needing..until I go to the ocean for a week)

(Grin)

You can get a nice portable 120w solar setup w/ controller for $235.
Well, plus battery and wiring. Speaking of batteries, I'd been
wondering how long it had been since I replaced my Tundra battery.
I don't remember doing it in the past 4 years, so I figured it was
getting time. Well, upon opening the hood, I found that it was the
original 2007 battery in there. I grabbed a new one (84mo Premium)
for $69 and decided to add the old one to the solar setup I have for
the rest of its lifetime. The core ding is only $12, and if it
doesn't last, I can always return it for the core charge. That's one
good battery!

I need (3) Series 24 or 27 Deep Cycle batteries. One for each boat. I
have a decent Chicom battery charger/solar switcher..
Tests well
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20A-MPPT-Sol...-/171112316078

You realize that's a PWM with an MPPT silkscreen, don't you? But for
small solar systems, PWM works damnear as well, so don't sweat it.
I have one deep cycle for my solar system now. $89 at Wally World.
They're all 3-year, though. Batteries made for solar systems are all
over $1k apiece, but they're guaranteed for a decade.


just need solar cells. Ive got (8) that are 14x36" and put out 6
volts each. So if I double them up..in to a 36x36" panel...its a big
****ing thing to try to hang somewhere on the ass end of a boat. No
place else to put em. Im probably going to build an array here at the
homestead this summer and put them all into one package..run 48 volts
out of them into a battery bank. with an inverter. Replace one of my
backup gensets. We have something like 300 days of full sun here
every year..keeping batteries charged is not..not a problem.

Yeah, using them for the homestead is a better idea. Taft is an ideal
spot for solar.


Google search: "solar cell sailboat" and then hit "Images"

So Im needing a small 45 watt panel for the little Windrose 18. The
big Venture 24..not a problem with the big panels Ive got. They can go
on top of the Pop Top

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/solar...t-43892541.jpg

I'd be willing to bet that your hatch isn't as large as that one. g


I need to start haunting the surplus electronic places again and see
what turns up. Ill find something.

The HF 45w kits all put out 19v apiece, but that array is nearly 4x4'.
You don't have room on a sailboat for that much wattage. Maybe stick
with a single 15w panel. If you use power sparingly (all LED
lighting, etc.) it should suffice. DO go for a 12+ volt system,
though. They're much more efficient for small battery-based charging
systems.


Gunner, who is recovering from having 9 teeth pulled Monday along with
jaw bone grinding in preperation for dentures

My time for that is fast approaching. sigh Best of luck wi dat.
I understand that finding a good person to reline them is the key to a
happy life after dentures. (I don't doubt that we'll do that fitting
and relining ourselves in the near future. Do you?)

Ill wait at least 2 months from now before getting fitted for
dentures. It will give my mouth a chance to heal and to move around
until its reached the shape its gonna be for the rest of my life.

Just use your blender until then. Take a full course meal, add hot
water, and grind it into soup for each meal. It tastes good. BTDT.


Wife had her uppers done..hummm 20 yrs ago...waited 6 months before
being fitted..still wearing the same dentures, no lining etc etc
needed. The dentist wanted to pull my teeth and then slap in the
moulds...and I told him not just no..but hell no! I told him I only
wanted to buy em once...not a bunch of times. He nodded and laughed in
agreement.

I'll definitely have to remember to do that myself when the time
comes.


Ive been functional for the past 10 or so years with less than 9
teeth..I dont smile much..but it didnt break me financially either.
Now Im on state insurance...least until I find a better job..so Im
getting everything done that I can. I havent heard from the people
who I interviewed with for that Ross For Less warehouse maint job.

Ditto with 18 left.


I suspect..they want someone younger...hence my earlier posting about
age discrimination..IE that link. They were/are hiring (4) maint guys
and I was told I was on the top of the list...but..neither I nor the
headhunter has heard back from them..so I suspect they found someone
half as skilled..but half the age. Shrug

They don't realize what they're missing in hiring us old guys, do
they? Experience is both priceless and irreplaceable. So many of the
old, pre-technological age data we store will be lost when we're gone
and when (not if) the SHTF and technology is gone, they're going to be
in a world of ****e.

--
Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplacable spark.

In the hopeless swamps of the not quite, the not yet, and
the not at all, do not let the hero in your soul perish
and leave only frustration for the life you deserved, but
never have been able to reach.

The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real,
it is possible, it is yours.
-- Ayn Rand

Anybody with grandkids, who wear diapers like me.

You wear diapers, Gunner?
G

On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 07:05:46 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:57:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:02:56 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 06:32:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:10:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Will these work?

This one is an AM/FM music type radio antenna
http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra

Yeah, I wondered about the termination connector. g


This one is a proper marine antenna.
http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl

Something to keep in mind...is deck space.

My little Windrose 18 is only 18 feet long. The deck has the mast, all
the shrouds, the rudder, the outboard motor, the jib/genoa sail
sweeping the forward 1/3-1/2 of the deck, the movable hatchway,
any/all ropes and lines that come to the cockpit..and the cockpit
itself.

How far away from the mast does the antenna have to be? Could you put
it close to the mast (just forward) and maybe put a guide around it to
keep the genoa or jib off it?

As far away as possible..or above it. Putting an antenna in the path
of a regularly moving sail...is simple madness. Putting ANYTHING in
the path of a moving sail is madness..

OK, to the side of the mast.

Up high..above the sail. Some sails sweep the mast as they pass. My
genoa..which is a big..big jib used in light winds..is as big as my
mainsail..and it is 15' wide..from the front of the boat to within 3'
of the stern of the boat.. That one REALLY sweeps the mast.


There are wide open spaces on top of the deck......until there isnt
as the sail sweeps that portion of the deck while changing
directionis. It can get pretty busy up there so far as space to put
Stuff attached to the boat. Add a bbq to the stern of the boat..
http://www.magmaproducts.com/
(one of my clients btw)

Prolly not more than $8 or $10k, eh?

I was promised one for free. Shrug. Ill see when I get it. They are
about $140 or so new..least the propane powered ones..run off a 1lb
torch bottle, of which I have a couple CASES of. Came out of one of
the factories I shut down in the past 4 yrs.

It's a real Bummer, having to shut down manufacturing.

Yes..it most assuredly is. Sad as hell too.


Like cup holders?

Ayup. Exactly like cup holders. Nothing worse than your bud spilling
his beer inside the cockpit and then smelling it all day. Best thing
to do is take a bucket of water out of the lake and simply flush out
the cockpit. Yuck!

That's as bad as mouse pee inside equipment. I was kidding about the
cup holder thing, though, after being in stitches reading all the new
car specs back in 2006. It seems that no vehicle made could be sold
without gazillions of cup holders stuck _everywhere_. Ashtray/CH,
door handle/CH, tailgate/CH, underhood cupholders. Ayieeeeeeeeee!

The 99 Chevy Venture Im currently driving..has....ready for it...."8"
cup holders in it.


Who needs diapers and other noise on a sailboat?

Anybody with grandkids who wear diapers. Like me. Im hoping they
wait for a couple years before putting her in my
boat(s)...but...shrug. This WIndrose 18 is good for 4 people max in
the cockpit. The Venture 24 is rated at 8 adults. Big boat..big
cockpit..party barge.

cringe Well, have fun!

Fortunately she is potty training herself..but I hate the smell of
diapers in an enclosed space..almost as much as I hate finding diapers
in parking lots...latinos here dump em anywhere handy..anywhere except
trash cans.



Think of it as putting a machine shop in a small garage or cargo
container..where you cant drill holes in the walls..least not
easily...LOL

Welll, clams for running lines through the top of the cabin are
available all over the place. Being on the roof, it is as far from
the water as possible, and clams are rainproof, wot?

Clams? Clam Cleats?

http://content.answcdn.com/main/cont...g/f0059-02.png

No, clam watertight bulkhead feedthrus. It was one of the things
which came up on the "also bought" list when I was looking at antennas
for you. Farkin' marine terminology. When I searched for "feedthru"
I got nothing, and "feedthrough" gave me trim tab kits and thrusters.

Oh..ayup. " Cable Clams" There are good ones..and big ones and small
ones.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/brow...-/4,44878.html




None of them require penetrating the watertight structure..they just
grab the rope and keep it from moving.


Im rigging the Windrose 18 to be a "single handed sailer" which means
everything comes back to the cockpit so I dont have to crawl all over
the top of the boat to raise/lower (3) sails, adjust sail trim, raise
and lower the centerboard, steer, grab a Dew from the cooler, chat on
the radio(s), change to a new music source etc etc etc.

The older I get, the less I listen to music. I prefer the silence (or
my tinnitus) to noise any day. I got out some records the other week
and realized it had been about a year since I listened to any. Once I
broke the TV habit, music was next. I do listen to music in the
truck, though. But on long trips, I often go hours without. Earplugs
in and pedal to the metal. YeeeeeHaw! g

Same here. Ive got a decent AM/FM stereo out in the shop..and only
remember to turn it on if Im out there for more than an hour. In the
vehicle..its usually talk radio. But....my boats are very suitable for
getting laid in...so music is required..

In that case, by all means, install one! I had forgotten about the
"Wanna go to the submarine races?" aspect of boating. My bad.

Hard to do that on a Bass Boat..unless the lady(s) like to frisk in
the open on a very big stage.


Thats half the fun of doing a restoration/upgrade......the boats came
out of the factory back in the 60s/70s/80s rigged as simple and as
cheaply as possible to meet buyers ability to pay and a lot of Stuff
then, was not considered a necessity as it is today (cooler, music
radio, batteries to run all the electronics..a charger and solar panel
to keep them charged...etc etc Hell..finding a place for a laptop
was never an issue way back then..it can be today with all the
computer navigation systems in everybodys hands (which I wont be
needing..until I go to the ocean for a week)

(Grin)

You can get a nice portable 120w solar setup w/ controller for $235.
Well, plus battery and wiring. Speaking of batteries, I'd been
wondering how long it had been since I replaced my Tundra battery.
I don't remember doing it in the past 4 years, so I figured it was
getting time. Well, upon opening the hood, I found that it was the
original 2007 battery in there. I grabbed a new one (84mo Premium)
for $69 and decided to add the old one to the solar setup I have for
the rest of its lifetime. The core ding is only $12, and if it
doesn't last, I can always return it for the core charge. That's one
good battery!

I need (3) Series 24 or 27 Deep Cycle batteries. One for each boat. I
have a decent Chicom battery charger/solar switcher..
Tests well
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20A-MPPT-Sol...-/171112316078

You realize that's a PWM with an MPPT silkscreen, don't you? But for
small solar systems, PWM works damnear as well, so don't sweat it.
I have one deep cycle for my solar system now. $89 at Wally World.
They're all 3-year, though. Batteries made for solar systems are all
over $1k apiece, but they're guaranteed for a decade.

Ayup..was aware of it..and for the price..who cares?


just need solar cells. Ive got (8) that are 14x36" and put out 6
volts each. So if I double them up..in to a 36x36" panel...its a big
****ing thing to try to hang somewhere on the ass end of a boat. No
place else to put em. Im probably going to build an array here at the
homestead this summer and put them all into one package..run 48 volts
out of them into a battery bank. with an inverter. Replace one of my
backup gensets. We have something like 300 days of full sun here
every year..keeping batteries charged is not..not a problem.

Yeah, using them for the homestead is a better idea. Taft is an ideal
spot for solar.

Yah think? (Grin)


Google search: "solar cell sailboat" and then hit "Images"

So Im needing a small 45 watt panel for the little Windrose 18. The
big Venture 24..not a problem with the big panels Ive got. They can go
on top of the Pop Top

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/solar...t-43892541.jpg

I'd be willing to bet that your hatch isn't as large as that one. g

On the Venture 24...it almost is.


I need to start haunting the surplus electronic places again and see
what turns up. Ill find something.

The HF 45w kits all put out 19v apiece, but that array is nearly 4x4'.
You don't have room on a sailboat for that much wattage. Maybe stick
with a single 15w panel. If you use power sparingly (all LED
lighting, etc.) it should suffice. DO go for a 12+ volt system,
though. They're much more efficient for small battery-based charging
systems.

Ayup..some of the new flexible panels would work very well on the
boat..they dont stick up .5" and are pretty rugged.


Gunner, who is recovering from having 9 teeth pulled Monday along with
jaw bone grinding in preperation for dentures

My time for that is fast approaching. sigh Best of luck wi dat.
I understand that finding a good person to reline them is the key to a
happy life after dentures. (I don't doubt that we'll do that fitting
and relining ourselves in the near future. Do you?)

Ill wait at least 2 months from now before getting fitted for
dentures. It will give my mouth a chance to heal and to move around
until its reached the shape its gonna be for the rest of my life.

Just use your blender until then. Take a full course meal, add hot
water, and grind it into soup for each meal. It tastes good. BTDT.

Ayup.


Wife had her uppers done..hummm 20 yrs ago...waited 6 months before
being fitted..still wearing the same dentures, no lining etc etc
needed. The dentist wanted to pull my teeth and then slap in the
moulds...and I told him not just no..but hell no! I told him I only
wanted to buy em once...not a bunch of times. He nodded and laughed in
agreement.

I'll definitely have to remember to do that myself when the time
comes.


Ive been functional for the past 10 or so years with less than 9
teeth..I dont smile much..but it didnt break me financially either.
Now Im on state insurance...least until I find a better job..so Im
getting everything done that I can. I havent heard from the people
who I interviewed with for that Ross For Less warehouse maint job.

Ditto with 18 left.

Take care of them. Massive doses of Tetracycline killed my teeth.
The new stuff today doesnt do that anymore.


I suspect..they want someone younger...hence my earlier posting about
age discrimination..IE that link. They were/are hiring (4) maint guys
and I was told I was on the top of the list...but..neither I nor the
headhunter has heard back from them..so I suspect they found someone
half as skilled..but half the age. Shrug

They don't realize what they're missing in hiring us old guys, do
they? Experience is both priceless and irreplaceable. So many of the
old, pre-technological age data we store will be lost when we're gone
and when (not if) the SHTF and technology is gone, they're going to be
in a world of ****e.

I was hoping for the job..its only 34 miles one way..but I didnt cut
any of my customers loose as of yet...so Im still doing what I was
doing before the interview.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:33:44 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:


Anybody with grandkids, who wear diapers like me.

You wear diapers, Gunner?
G

Lesson #145 in proper punctuation!

Blush!!

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Lesson #145 in proper punctuation!

Blush!!

Gunner

I'll let you off the hook. I re-punctuated it for you to make it read that
way. It just struck me as funny.

Lloyd

On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:38:12 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Lesson #145 in proper punctuation!

Blush!!

Gunner

I'll let you off the hook. I re-punctuated it for you to make it read that
way. It just struck me as funny.

Lloyd

Whew! I was worried. Im typing while on painkillers and I notice
myself rambling a bit on the boat thread..was hoping that was all that
was changed by em.

Fortunately I dont need pain killers anymore..but having this big
swollen mug holding my eyes in place is bad enough.

And Im getting tired of my tounge playing with the stitches!




"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch on Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:31:48 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


I suspect..they want someone younger...hence my earlier posting about
age discrimination..IE that link. They were/are hiring (4) maint guys
and I was told I was on the top of the list...but..neither I nor the
headhunter has heard back from them..so I suspect they found someone
half as skilled..but half the age. Shrug

They don't realize what they're missing in hiring us old guys, do
they? Experience is both priceless and irreplaceable. So many of the
old, pre-technological age data we store will be lost when we're gone
and when (not if) the SHTF and technology is gone, they're going to be
in a world of ****e.

As I heard the stories, after the wall fell, and everybody was
heading East to make their fortune, the one group which was able to
handle conditions were the old farts. The ones who remembered how to
do business when the phones, lights and power went a bit "wonkey". As
they said of my grandfather in the thirties, he really didn't need the
phone to call headquarters (In Providence RI from Worcester Mass), he
could just yell and be heard down there.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 07:05:46 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:57:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:02:56 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 06:32:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:10:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Will these work?

This one is an AM/FM music type radio antenna
http://tinyurl.com/mrwckra

Yeah, I wondered about the termination connector. g


This one is a proper marine antenna.
http://tinyurl.com/popbjpl

Something to keep in mind...is deck space.

My little Windrose 18 is only 18 feet long. The deck has the mast, all
the shrouds, the rudder, the outboard motor, the jib/genoa sail
sweeping the forward 1/3-1/2 of the deck, the movable hatchway,
any/all ropes and lines that come to the cockpit..and the cockpit
itself.

How far away from the mast does the antenna have to be? Could you put
it close to the mast (just forward) and maybe put a guide around it to
keep the genoa or jib off it?

As far away as possible..or above it. Putting an antenna in the path
of a regularly moving sail...is simple madness. Putting ANYTHING in
the path of a moving sail is madness..

OK, to the side of the mast.


Usually you just put a small cross bracket in the top of the mast with
the wind vane on one side and the antenna on the other. See
http://tinyurl.com/njkhkmt
although that shows a wind speed on one side and direction on the
other it shows the basic concept.

Since it is extremely difficult to get the shrouds, stays, or sails
above the top of the mast it works pretty well :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.