I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual. I have also downloaded a
Grizzly manual for their equivalent saw.

I am having a persistent problem with tracking of the blade on the
lower (driven) wheel: the blade runs about 2/3rds on the wheel. I have
re-done the tracking procedure on the top wheel where it is
satisfactory. I have tried different tensions. If I move the blade
manually *backwards* by rotating the pulleys the blade slots in fine,
right next to the shoulder. If I move it forward, manually or by the
motor, it goes back to its previous position.

The saw cuts OK and there has been no tendency for the blade to slip
off the wheels. I am inclined to accept it but I was wondering if
anyone else encountered this and what, if anything, they did about it.

The other issue is the quality of the chips: The Grizzly manual has an
interesting chart explaining what needs to be done depending on the
shape of the chips. Nothing I do seems to make a difference - they are
always powdery!

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

fired this volley in
:

Nothing I do seems to make a difference - they are
always powdery!


Mike, the only thing that can be affecting the tracking is (by your
experiments) the tracking of the drive or driven wheels. I would assume
that one or the other is canted slightly off-track -- perhaps by bearing
wear.

As far as the chips go; have you tried a coarser blade? There's a limit
to what an 18-tooth band can do! G

Increasing the weight on the blade can make the chips longer, too, but
can't do anything about the teeth-per-inch issue.

LLoyd

On Feb 19, 6:30*pm, wrote:
I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual. I have also downloaded a
Grizzly manual for their equivalent saw.

I am having a persistent problem with tracking of the blade on the
lower (driven) wheel: the blade runs about 2/3rds on the wheel. I have
re-done the tracking procedure on the top wheel where it is
satisfactory. I have tried different tensions. If I move the blade
manually *backwards* by rotating the pulleys the blade slots in fine,
right next to the shoulder. If I move it forward, manually or by the
motor, it goes back to its previous position.

The saw cuts OK and there has been no tendency for the blade to slip
off the wheels. I am inclined to accept it but I was wondering if
anyone else encountered this and what, if anything, they did about it.

The other issue is the quality of the chips: The Grizzly manual has an
interesting chart explaining what needs to be done depending on the
shape of the chips. Nothing I do seems to make a difference - they are
always powdery!

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Are the wheels coplanar? I remember one guy had to turn up a spacer
for one of the wheels before they were in the same plane. Sounds like
that may be what it is, because if one was tilted, the blade would run
off. Get a straight edge and check it out.

Hopefully, you've found a source for better blades than the banding
iron ones that are packed with 4x6s. I like Lenox, there are
others(none Chinese). You need at least three pitches, one of the
variable pitch jobbies is handy if you chop irregular cross-section
stuff.

As far as tension, you can crank down all you want, it'll barely get
the blade into the recommended tension area. Just remember to back it
off when done or the frame may take a set.

Might be worth a look into the gearbox, on some of the 4x6s, there's
been core sand and swarf left. Doesn't do bearings any good. Mine
didn't have a lot of crap, but I changed the gear lube out for some
good name-brand hypoid stuff anyway. Stuck a magnetron magnet on the
lid for particle accumulation plus a wrench holder.

There are several sites out there with fixes and upgrades for the 4x6,
I've not done a lot with mine except to dump the cheapy chink soft
hardware and get some decent fasteners into it.

Stan

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 17:30:36 -0800, wrote:

I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual. I have also downloaded a
Grizzly manual for their equivalent saw.

I am having a persistent problem with tracking of the blade on the
lower (driven) wheel: the blade runs about 2/3rds on the wheel. I have
re-done the tracking procedure on the top wheel where it is
satisfactory. I have tried different tensions. If I move the blade
manually *backwards* by rotating the pulleys the blade slots in fine,
right next to the shoulder. If I move it forward, manually or by the
motor, it goes back to its previous position.

The saw cuts OK and there has been no tendency for the blade to slip
off the wheels. I am inclined to accept it but I was wondering if
anyone else encountered this and what, if anything, they did about it.

What about blade tension? It sounds as if the tension is way too
high, bowing the frame, and causing the blade to slip off. Have you
set your guides properly? (With the manuals, you probably have.)
Is the driven wheel axle nut tight? Those are the only things I can
think of which could cause that. Check that the wheels are coplanar
and and parallel, then go from there. It sounds like a twist
(backwards reseats the blade) or bend (blade slips off.)


The other issue is the quality of the chips: The Grizzly manual has an
interesting chart explaining what needs to be done depending on the
shape of the chips. Nothing I do seems to make a difference - they are
always powdery!

I've always taken that as an indication that the blade is dull.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On 2012-02-20, wrote:
I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual. I have also downloaded a
Grizzly manual for their equivalent saw.

I am having a persistent problem with tracking of the blade on the
lower (driven) wheel: the blade runs about 2/3rds on the wheel. I have
re-done the tracking procedure on the top wheel where it is
satisfactory. I have tried different tensions.

The only *correct* tension on these machines is as hard as you
can twist the knob by hand -- and perhaps a little more. The tension
knob is too small for the task. :-)

If I move the blade
manually *backwards* by rotating the pulleys the blade slots in fine,
right next to the shoulder. If I move it forward, manually or by the
motor, it goes back to its previous position.

The saw cuts OK and there has been no tendency for the blade to slip
off the wheels. I am inclined to accept it but I was wondering if
anyone else encountered this and what, if anything, they did about it.

I'll bet that the third ball bearing in the guides (the one
which presses against the back edge of the blade) is set too far against
the back of the blade, forcing it forward. The bearing should be
mounted on an eccentric, and thus fairly easy to adjust. (Note that
there are two flavors of the guides. The ones which came with mine
(bought new from MSC over a decade ago) has the bearings mounted to a
chuck of forged steel -- nice and rigid. Others that I have seen often
have the guide assembly bent up from mild steel about 1/8" thick or a
little thinner, and those tend to loosen over time as the mounts for the
side bearings bend.

I would suggest that you start by adjusting both back bearings
as far back as you can get them. Then start by adjusting the one
closest to the wheel until it moves the back of the blade just barely
clear of the flange on the wheel. Then adjust the other so it is just
barely touching the back of the blade while it is running free. When
you start to cut, it will move that part of the blade into firm contact
with the bearing, too.

But it *could* be a worn bearing in the bottom wheel's axle.
Did you buy this *new*, or was it from someone else who had bought it
from Busy Bee some time ago?

And, BTW, it is a good idea to open the gearbox, clean it out,
and refill with proper gear oil. They frequently have casting sand in
there, and grind the gears to death over time.

The other issue is the quality of the chips: The Grizzly manual has an
interesting chart explaining what needs to be done depending on the
shape of the chips. Nothing I do seems to make a difference - they are
always powdery!

What metal are you cutting with it? I suspect that the Grizzley
manual is assuming mild steel. (It might help if I downloaded it and
read what they say, but it is too late tonight. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Stanley Schaefer wrote:


Are the wheels coplanar?
One of the classic failures on these is the lower wheel walks
off the shaft. This misaligns the worm wheel in the gearbox,
so it can wreck the gears, too. I eventually bored out and
re-threaded the setscrew in the lower wheel, and it has not
slipped since. When the lower wheel has walked out on the
shaft a bit, the blade tracking starts to get unstable.
The check is to take the blade off and see if the lower wheel
can move axially. Any more than a few thousandths of an inch
is wrong, and an eighth of an inch is a sure sign this has
happened.

Jon

wrote:
I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual. I have also downloaded a
Grizzly manual for their equivalent saw.

I am having a persistent problem with tracking of the blade on the
lower (driven) wheel: the blade runs about 2/3rds on the wheel. I have
re-done the tracking procedure on the top wheel where it is
satisfactory. I have tried different tensions. If I move the blade
manually *backwards* by rotating the pulleys the blade slots in fine,
right next to the shoulder. If I move it forward, manually or by the
motor, it goes back to its previous position.


Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

There's a 4X6 bandsaw group on Yahoo . There's a lot of info in the
archives , and if you can't find the answer there someone on the group
likely has the answer to your problem .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

All good advice in the previous recommendations. I shimmed both wheels with
brass thrust washers to get them on the same plane (checking with a long
straightedge spanning both wheels) also, the washers minimized the wobble of
the free wheel.

DoN's comments wrt the back edge rollers.. definitely worthwhile to check
those.

Safety first..
I removed the worm shaft pulley and installed a long tap handle to manually
rotate the wheels and band slowly while adjusting the pitch of the free
wheel.. an adapter for a slow running variable speed drill would serve the
same purpose of running slow (with full blade tension) while making checks.
Using the saw's motor to run the blade while making adjustments (or any time
the blade guard is off/open) would be a safety risk worth avoiding.

The powdery swarf sounds like worn blade teeth, you should at least see fine
sparklies for chips with a fine-toothed blade, and of course larger chips
with a coarser tooth pitch.
You'll get used to the prickly feel of sharp blade teeth on your fingertips,
but a magnifier may reveal small flats on the tips of the teeth you're using
now, indicating a worn blade.

Also, after correction of the wandering blade travel, it's important to
avoid too light of a downward pressure (while cutting) on the blade..
rubbing without creating chips will dull the teeth quickly, so try to
maintain at least moderate downward pressure.. more pressure is good when
the chips are plentiful.

You may have noticed it mentioned before.. a good cutting lubricant is very
cost effective and greatly enhances cutting performance.
My long-time favorite has been Lenox ProTool Lube.. just scored several 6
ounce bottles on eBag at $3 each (Fastenal no longer stocks it).

Lastly, avoid cutting OBF old bed frame.. the hard spots will wipe away the
tips of the blade teeth immediately.
If necessary, it's better to cut OBF with a cutoff disk in an angle grinder,
or use a hacksaw to avoid the need to change the bandsaw blade.
HSMs would be better off avoiding it, since it also wipes out cutting edges
on drills, and it doesn't weld worth a damn.. it'll look like it's welded,
but the weld is likely to pull out with light to moderate force.

--
WB
..........


wrote in message
...
I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual. I have also downloaded a
Grizzly manual for their equivalent saw.

I am having a persistent problem with tracking of the blade on the
lower (driven) wheel: the blade runs about 2/3rds on the wheel. I have
re-done the tracking procedure on the top wheel where it is
satisfactory. I have tried different tensions. If I move the blade
manually *backwards* by rotating the pulleys the blade slots in fine,
right next to the shoulder. If I move it forward, manually or by the
motor, it goes back to its previous position.

The saw cuts OK and there has been no tendency for the blade to slip
off the wheels. I am inclined to accept it but I was wondering if
anyone else encountered this and what, if anything, they did about it.

The other issue is the quality of the chips: The Grizzly manual has an
interesting chart explaining what needs to be done depending on the
shape of the chips. Nothing I do seems to make a difference - they are
always powdery!

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:33:06 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

wrote:
I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual. I have also downloaded a
Grizzly manual for their equivalent saw.

I am having a persistent problem with tracking of the blade on the
lower (driven) wheel: the blade runs about 2/3rds on the wheel. I have
re-done the tracking procedure on the top wheel where it is
satisfactory. I have tried different tensions. If I move the blade
manually *backwards* by rotating the pulleys the blade slots in fine,
right next to the shoulder. If I move it forward, manually or by the
motor, it goes back to its previous position.


Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

There's a 4X6 bandsaw group on Yahoo . There's a lot of info in the
archives , and if you can't find the answer there someone on the group
likely has the answer to your problem .

If anyone is interested...I scored a 7x12" Emerson saw last week. Ive
got the exact duplicate in my shop as my workhorse machine.

The only issue with this new saw..both drive pulleys are toast. But Ive
ordered a matching pair and would consider selling it at a reasonable
price

Identical to this one

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...manual-177888/



Gunner

--
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Wild_Bill" wrote

Lastly, avoid cutting OBF old bed frame.. the hard spots will wipe away
the tips of the blade teeth immediately.

WB

What do you suggest for 1-3/4" rock drill rod? I spent over an hour making
one ragged cut with an abrasive chop saw.

jsw

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:40:01 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Wild_Bill" wrote

Lastly, avoid cutting OBF old bed frame.. the hard spots will wipe away
the tips of the blade teeth immediately.

WB

What do you suggest for 1-3/4" rock drill rod? I spent over an hour making
one ragged cut with an abrasive chop saw.

Annealing that spot wasn't an option, eh?

I've had good luck with the little 3" abrasive cutoff blades for die
grinders. One 1" strut piston rod took about a minute and a half,
including two repositionings of the thing. They're hard, too.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On 20 Feb 2012 05:11:58 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...]
The only *correct* tension on these machines is as hard as you
can twist the knob by hand -- and perhaps a little more. The tension
knob is too small for the task. :-)
[...]

Thank you all.

To answer some of the points that have been raised:

1) The saw was bought new.
2) I opened, cleaned and re-filled the gear box immediately after
purchase.
3) The back guide bearings do not touch the blade when not cutting.
4) I use it to cut mild steel almost exclusively
5) To get the tension they recommend (actually, the recommendations
differ between manuals!) I use a pipe wrench - with three fingers
only.
6) The tension adjustment and tracking adjustment are interdependent
on this machine. Presumably the frame bends. This happens at quite low
tensions.
7) The wheels were *not* co-planar. The driven wheel was slightly
further back. This is where the fun started:

a) I thought I would remove the driven wheel , inspect and clean the
shaft and reposition it. I had no difficulty removing the set-screw.
b) The wheel was quite tight but with some effort and Liquid Wrench I
was able to get it to move axially about 3/8". When trying to remove
it completely it simply got stuck and would not budge. I tried
rotating it on the shaft and it did so with major effort. I could see
no evidence that a key is involved. Manuals does not show one. I
looked and felt all around the hub and could not see/feel any more set
screw/pins/whatever.
c) I though I would just move the wheel forward as far as it would go
and fix it there with the set-screw and be done but the set-screw
*would not go back *!
d) The manual says this should be a M8 screw. This was clearly wrong,
the screw is 5/16-18. I tried a different 5/16-18 screw to get into
the hole (I thought there may be an alignment problem) and it behaved
the same way - it would turn about two threads and then it would
become difficult to turn.
e) I cleaned the set-screw hole, blew it out with compressor, looked
down with a light, poked about there with a stick to no great benefit.
f) I run a bottoming tap as far as I could but still was not able to
get the screw in far enough to hold the wheel securely.
g) In the end I made a little 1/4" diameter plug, dropped it in the
hole and screwed the set-screw after it. This did the job.
h) The blade now runs much better after I re-adjusted the
tracking/tension. However, the driven wheel is touching the cover.

I left it at this point. I do not pretend to understand any of this. I
shall try cutting something on Thursday...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2012-02-22, wrote:
On 20 Feb 2012 05:11:58 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...]
The only *correct* tension on these machines is as hard as you
can twist the knob by hand -- and perhaps a little more. The tension
knob is too small for the task. :-)
[...]

Thank you all.

To answer some of the points that have been raised:

[ ... ]

3) The back guide bearings do not touch the blade when not cutting.

This eliminates my primary guess.

[ ... ]

d) The manual says this should be a M8 screw. This was clearly wrong,
the screw is 5/16-18.

You know that 5/16 is *very* close to 8mm?

0.3125" ~= 0.315" as I said, *very* close.

18 TPI calculates out as 1.411mm -- and the M8 is probably
M8x1.5, so it will go in a few turns before wedging.

So -- the *screw* may be 5/8-18, but the threaded hole is
probably M8x1.5. Did you try purchasing a M8 screw and trying it?

The two are close enough so I would expect my "screw chkr" to
not tell the difference. You would need a proper thread pitch gauge
engaging perhaps a half inch of screw length to tell for sure.

I have made that mistake, and put 5/8-18 setscrews in some
Phase-II BXA sized (Series 200) tool holders. To get them to go all the
way through, I had to run a proper 5/16" gun tap through the holes --
but this now means that all my tool holders use precisely the same Allen
key, and the threads were close enough so there was no ill effect other
than dulling that tap. :-)

I tried a different 5/16-18 screw to get into
the hole (I thought there may be an alignment problem) and it behaved
the same way - it would turn about two threads and then it would
become difficult to turn.

That again sounds like you need a proper M8x1.5 setscrew.

e) I cleaned the set-screw hole, blew it out with compressor, looked
down with a light, poked about there with a stick to no great benefit.
f) I run a bottoming tap as far as I could but still was not able to
get the screw in far enough to hold the wheel securely.

Because you could not get a through hole without succeeding in
pulling the wheel.

g) In the end I made a little 1/4" diameter plug, dropped it in the
hole and screwed the set-screw after it. This did the job.

Probably a good enough fix, now that the threads are some
combination between 5/16-18 and M8x1.5. :-)

h) The blade now runs much better after I re-adjusted the
tracking/tension. However, the driven wheel is touching the cover.

O.K

I left it at this point. I do not pretend to understand any of this. I
shall try cutting something on Thursday...

Good luck with that,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Feb 21, 6:59*pm, wrote:
On 20 Feb 2012 05:11:58 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...] * *The only *correct* tension on these machines is as hard as you
can twist the knob by hand -- and perhaps a little more. *The tension
knob is too small for the task. :-)

[...]

Thank you all.

To answer some of the points that have been raised:

1) The saw was bought new.
2) I opened, cleaned and re-filled the gear box immediately after
purchase.
3) The back guide bearings do not touch the blade when not cutting.
4) I use it to cut mild steel almost exclusively
5) To get the tension they recommend (actually, the recommendations
differ between manuals!) I use a pipe wrench - with three fingers
only.
6) The tension adjustment and tracking adjustment are interdependent
on this machine. Presumably the frame bends. This happens at quite low
tensions.
7) The wheels were *not* co-planar. The driven wheel was slightly
further back. This is where the fun started:

a) I thought I would remove the driven wheel , inspect and clean the
shaft and reposition it. I had no difficulty removing the set-screw.
b) The wheel was quite tight but with some effort and Liquid Wrench I
was able to get it to move axially about 3/8". When trying to remove
it completely it simply got stuck and would not budge. I tried
rotating it on the shaft and it did so with major effort. I could see
no evidence that a key is involved. Manuals does not show one. I
looked and felt all around the hub and could not see/feel any more set
screw/pins/whatever.
c) I though I would just move the wheel forward as far as it would go
and fix it there with the set-screw and be done but the set-screw
*would not go back *!
d) The manual says this should be a M8 screw. This was clearly wrong,
the screw is 5/16-18. I tried a different 5/16-18 screw to get into
the hole (I thought there may be an alignment problem) and it behaved
the same way - it would turn about two threads and then it would
become difficult to turn.
e) I cleaned the set-screw hole, blew it out with compressor, looked
down with a light, poked about there with a stick to no great benefit.
f) I run a bottoming tap as far as I could but still was not able to
get the screw in far enough to hold the wheel securely.
g) In the end I made a little 1/4" diameter plug, dropped it in the
hole and screwed the set-screw after it. This did the job.
h) The blade now runs much better after I re-adjusted the
tracking/tension. However, the driven wheel is touching the cover.

I left it at this point. I do not pretend to understand any of this. I
shall try cutting something on Thursday...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

So, if the bottom wheel is touching the cover, it needs to go back as
does the top wheel. Of course. the guide rollers will need
readjusting after that as well. I would have gotten out the pulley
pullers to remove the bottom wheel, cleaned up the no doubt burred-up
shaft, retapped the setscrew hole while it was off and replaced the
setscrew with a decent domestic-made one. I've never seen SAE
hardware on any of the asian 4x6s, it's no doubt one flavor of an 8mm
hole. There are several pitches to choose from, it'll be the one that
no one in town has, I speak from experience here.

Stan

"DoN. Nichols" wrote

You know that 5/16 is *very* close to 8mm?

0.3125" ~= 0.315" as I said, *very* close.

18 TPI calculates out as 1.411mm -- and the M8 is probably
M8x1.5, so it will go in a few turns before wedging.

So -- the *screw* may be 5/8-18, but the threaded hole is
probably M8x1.5. Did you try purchasing a M8 screw and trying it?

The two are close enough so I would expect my "screw chkr" to
not tell the difference. You would need a proper thread pitch gauge
engaging perhaps a half inch of screw length to tell for sure.
DoN.

I store my metric taps in the drawers with the screws and use them to
check the pitch of unknown hardware. A screw picked at random from the
drawer could be mis-sorted but the taps are marked for size.

jsw

I agree with the puller procedure to get "eyes on" the problem area.

I strongly dislike the displaced metal deformation on shafts due to the
cupped or pointed set screw making removal of pulleys/gears etc, difficult
or almost impossible.

One could cut away the deformation with a center-cutting endmill in a drill
(use a small piece of thin wall tubing or durable tape to protect the
threads), or be vewwy vewwy cahfuwl.. then after the drive accessory is
removed, file a flat on the shaft (and possibly a slightly longer set screw
for re-assembly).

Otherwise, forcing the pulley off the shaft won't completely destroy it,
just score the bore as the pully material passes over the displaced high
spots on the shaft.. definitely not as practical of a solution compared to
the above method, but we've all done it when the particular situation
dictated it.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Stanley Schaefer" wrote in message
...

So, if the bottom wheel is touching the cover, it needs to go back as
does the top wheel. Of course. the guide rollers will need
readjusting after that as well. I would have gotten out the pulley
pullers to remove the bottom wheel, cleaned up the no doubt burred-up
shaft, retapped the setscrew hole while it was off and replaced the
setscrew with a decent domestic-made one. I've never seen SAE
hardware on any of the asian 4x6s, it's no doubt one flavor of an 8mm
hole. There are several pitches to choose from, it'll be the one that
no one in town has, I speak from experience here.

Stan

Never seen the stuff, as far as I'm aware, but any abrasive that doesn't cut
thru metal effectively, is apparently the wrong abrasive.
I'm not seeing follow-up comments, but maybe Ed or someone else knows what
rock drill rod is.

Some abrasive products just don't shed dull grit, exposing fresh and sharp
grit as the attempted cutting is taking place.
Then what happens is the dull particles heat up and glaze in place..
basically forming a smooth glass surface with zero cutting action.

The other major drawback of some (generally softer) materials is, the
cutting abrasive gets clogged easily, likely not the case with with the rock
drill rod.
Anyone who's attempted to grind "just a little bit" off of a copper or
aluminum piece knows what happens very quickly to a grinding wheel which
otherwise is very effective at grinding steel.

A thick layer of copper embedded in hard security bars will effectively stop
a common abrasive cutting disk that would otherwise cut thru the security
bar material relatively easily.
Additionally, random odd-shaped bits of HSS, hard ball brearings and carbide
shards embedded in the bars would limit the effectiveness of most saw
blades.

Certain materials definitely need specific cutting products and procedures,
but I could only guess that a disk with diamond grit "might'a could'a" been
much more efficient at cutting the rock drill rod.

--
WB
..........


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

"Wild_Bill" wrote

Lastly, avoid cutting OBF old bed frame.. the hard spots will wipe away
the tips of the blade teeth immediately.

WB

What do you suggest for 1-3/4" rock drill rod? I spent over an hour making
one ragged cut with an abrasive chop saw.

jsw

"Wild_Bill" wrote
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message

"Wild_Bill" wrote

Lastly, avoid cutting OBF old bed frame.. the hard spots will wipe
away the tips of the blade teeth immediately.

WB

What do you suggest for 1-3/4" rock drill rod? I spent over an hour
making one ragged cut with an abrasive chop saw.
jsw

Never seen the stuff, as far as I'm aware, but any abrasive that
doesn't cut thru metal effectively, is apparently the wrong
abrasive.
WB

The drill rod was run over and pretzeled by an excavator at a blasting
site. The man they gave it to for scrap it let me cut off a straight
end in exchange for some cast iron I didn't need. I think the reddish,
non-branching sparks mean manganese steel.

The Enco chop saw was on the end of 100' of extension cord out behind
his place and not at its best. Maybe it's the $3 wheels I buy, or not
leaning hard enough on it, but it doesn't cut mild steel over an inch
wide very well either.

Now that it's home, the rod cuts easily enough with a hacksaw and a
file and isn't packed full of sand, so I'll risk a bandsaw blade on
it.

jsw

On 22 Feb 2012 05:47:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-02-22, wrote:
On 20 Feb 2012 05:11:58 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...]

d) The manual says this should be a M8 screw. This was clearly wrong,
the screw is 5/16-18.

You know that 5/16 is *very* close to 8mm?

[...]

The critical point is that this set screw would not go into * the hole
it came out of in the first place*. It was not particularly difficult
to unscrew either.

It was a perfect fit into a 5/16-18 screw gauge.

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be of so
uncommon configuration?

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

wrote in message
...
... The critical point is that this set screw would not go into *
the hole
it came out of in the first place*. It was not particularly
difficult
to unscrew either.

It was a perfect fit into a 5/16-18 screw gauge.

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be of
so
uncommon configuration?

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"I have a cheap 4x6 band saw which I bought on sale from Busy Bee and
which came with a Harbor-Freight manual."

Was it in the original unopened package? If not it might have been
returned as defective and the wrong screw installed to 'fix' it.

When Enco had a local retail store they let me look around the storage
area where I found and adopted several such unwanted orphans with
easily repaired defects. Sometimes Home Depot, Lowe's and the Harbor
Freight store will make deals to get rid of their problem children
too.

The trick is being able to diagnose the problem and estimate the
repairs on the fly, without taking it all apart. More than half of my
stuff including almost all of the computers and even this house was
'broken' when I bought it, cheap.

jsw

On 2012-02-23, wrote:
On 22 Feb 2012 05:47:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-02-22, wrote:
On 20 Feb 2012 05:11:58 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...]

d) The manual says this should be a M8 screw. This was clearly wrong,
the screw is 5/16-18.

You know that 5/16 is *very* close to 8mm?

[...]

The critical point is that this set screw would not go into * the hole
it came out of in the first place*. It was not particularly difficult
to unscrew either.

It was a perfect fit into a 5/16-18 screw gauge.

Which suggests that the threaded hole in the hub was metric,
while the screw was not.

But how many threads did the gauge engage. Mine (a
"Screw-Chckr" plate) is not much over two threads when you get that
coarse -- not enough to tell the difference between 5/16-18 and M8.x1.5.

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be of so
uncommon configuration?

A result of a search for M8x1.5 on Google (one of many returns,
BTW).

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m8x1-5-hss-tmx-round-adjustable-die-metric-left-hand-1-inch-od?utm_source=google_pr;utm_medium=cpc;utm_campaig n=Dies-Round-google_pr;infoParam.campaignId=T9F

And I see hints that it was used in some automotive
applications.

This one is sort of confusing:

http://www.ngpracing.com/store/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=5035

Because it has a "code" of "M8-1.25-32CR", but down in the description I
find:

Thread size / Pitch = M8mm x 1.5

Note that the Japanese have their own interpretation of metric
threads, which do not always match the ISO threads, so they may have
used it as well.

And the saws come from either China or Taiwan, and they tend to
use sizes which are very close to fractional inch sizes, so they may use
the M8x1.5 *because* it is so close to 5/16-18. And that screw may have
vibrated out in transportation, and the importers screwed in the nearest
inch size, because it *looked* like it fit.

Pull the hub, and re-tap *fully* for the 5/16-18 and you should
be fine.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

FWIW..
Any abrasive disk I've used in a chop-saw has accomplished the cut much more
quickly when the disk contact is at the thinnest cross section of the
material.. apparently not the situation with the rock drill rod, just
commenting wrt general shop practice.

Thick square, round, hex, etc cross sections are just generally slow (cut
more effectively with a saw and a coarse blade), but any flat stock cuts
faster when the disk is approaching the thin width and not the wider
surface.

The larger the contact area of the disk's edge, the more heat is generated
in the disk, which I believe also reduces the shedding of the dull abrasive
grains.. so the cutting action is significantly reduced, or so it seemed to
me.

--
WB
..........


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...


The drill rod was run over and pretzeled by an excavator at a blasting
site. The man they gave it to for scrap it let me cut off a straight end
in exchange for some cast iron I didn't need. I think the reddish,
non-branching sparks mean manganese steel.

The Enco chop saw was on the end of 100' of extension cord out behind his
place and not at its best. Maybe it's the $3 wheels I buy, or not leaning
hard enough on it, but it doesn't cut mild steel over an inch wide very
well either.

Now that it's home, the rod cuts easily enough with a hacksaw and a file
and isn't packed full of sand, so I'll risk a bandsaw blade on it.

jsw

On 24 Feb 2012 04:36:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:



[...]

The critical point is that this set screw would not go into * the hole
it came out of in the first place*. It was not particularly difficult
to unscrew either.

It was a perfect fit into a 5/16-18 screw gauge.

Which suggests that the threaded hole in the hub was metric,
while the screw was not.

But how many threads did the gauge engage. Mine (a
"Screw-Chckr" plate) is not much over two threads when you get that
coarse -- not enough to tell the difference between 5/16-18 and M8.x1.5.

All of them (about 5).

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be of so
uncommon configuration?

A result of a search for M8x1.5 on Google (one of many returns,
BTW).

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m8x1-5-hss-tmx-round-adjustable-die-metric-left-hand-1-inch-od?utm_source=google_pr;utm_medium=cpc;utm_campaig n=Dies-Round-google_pr;infoParam.campaignId=T9F

And I see hints that it was used in some automotive
applications.

This one is sort of confusing:

http://www.ngpracing.com/store/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=5035

Because it has a "code" of "M8-1.25-32CR", but down in the description I
find:

Thread size / Pitch = M8mm x 1.5

Note that the Japanese have their own interpretation of metric
threads, which do not always match the ISO threads, so they may have
used it as well.

And the saws come from either China or Taiwan, and they tend to
use sizes which are very close to fractional inch sizes, so they may use
the M8x1.5 *because* it is so close to 5/16-18. And that screw may have
vibrated out in transportation, and the importers screwed in the nearest
inch size, because it *looked* like it fit.

Interesting. None of the tables I pulled up showed 1.5 mm in M8.

I pulled out another set screw, this one on the handle of the vise. It
is also 5/16-18. The hole takes UNC screw without difficulty.

Pull the hub, and re-tap *fully* for the 5/16-18 and you should
be fine.

Ah, would that I could. I tried a cut today. The driven wheel started
walking - obviously I did not have the set screw right. However, as
the Liquid Wrench clearly did some good over the two days I thought I
would remove the wheel and have a look. That is when I discovered that
the wheel will not come off due to the hinge bar which stops the last
1/8" movement or so. I looked at it this way and that and for a moment
I thought about disassembling the whole saw which would have been a
bit of a problem single-handed. To cut a long story short I
repositioned the wheel, tightened the set screw better, re-mounted the
blade, guard etc., re-did the tracking and tension and cut. I must
have done some good as the cut was the best I have had from this thing
ever: Right angles all around on a 1.25" cut. The saw blade sits where
it is supposed to on the wheels.

Good enough for me.

Now I am going to replace that stupid little wheel that functions as a
vise lever with something more sensible.

Enjoy,

No, but a bit of pain builds character. Or so they tell me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Inscribed thus:

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be of
so uncommon configuration?

A result of a search for M8x1.5 on Google (one of many returns,
BTW).

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m8x1-5-hss-tmx-round-adjustable-die-metric-left-hand-1-inch-od?utm_source=google_pr;utm_medium=cpc;utm_campaig n=Dies-Round-google_pr;infoParam.campaignId=T9F

The die in that photo shows M12x1 RH a standard size.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:06:20 +0000, Baron
wrote:

Inscribed thus:

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be of
so uncommon configuration?

A result of a search for M8x1.5 on Google (one of many returns,
BTW).

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m8x1-5-hss-tmx-round-adjustable-die-metric-left-hand-1-inch-od?utm_source=google_pr;utm_medium=cpc;utm_campaig n=Dies-Round-google_pr;infoParam.campaignId=T9F

The die in that photo shows M12x1 RH a standard size.

Looking through Fastenal and McMaster Carr web sites I found a single
cap screw M8 x 1.5 mm (Fastenal - $5) and one other fastener M8 x 2.5
(sic).

Neither company carried any set screws other then M8 x 1 or M8 x 1.25.

Neither company carries taps M8 x 1.5.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2012-02-25, Baron wrote:
Inscribed thus:

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be of
so uncommon configuration?

A result of a search for M8x1.5 on Google (one of many returns,
BTW).

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m8x1-5-hss-tmx-round-adjustable-die-metric-left-hand-1-inch-od?utm_source=google_pr;utm_medium=cpc;utm_campaig n=Dies-Round-google_pr;infoParam.campaignId=T9F

The die in that photo shows M12x1 RH a standard size.

Of course. A lot of these places use one photo for all of a
generic type of product. (And M12x1 is actually not that standard --
except as the spindle thread on an old Unimat DB-200 or SL-1000. :-)

And note that as a result of the boilerplate that they used, it
also says "THREADS PER INCH" instead of "Thread Pitch (mm)" as it
should. :-)

Try this URL -- for a M6x1 die (a quite standard size):

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m6x1-0-hss-iso-metric-tmx-round-adjustable-die-coarse-thread-1-inch-od

Or this one (M4x0.5)

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m4-5x-5-hss-iso-metric-tmx-round-adjustable-die-fine-thread-1-inch-od

Note also that M12x1 is *not* a usually 1" diameter die. Not
enough meat in that diameter.

Here is their M12x1, and it is 1-1/2" diameter.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m12x1-25-hss-iso-metric-tmx-round-adjustable-die-fine-thread-1-1-2-inch-od

So -- don't believe the pictures. :-) The ad people who build
the web site don't know what they are talking about. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols Inscribed thus:

On 2012-02-25, Baron wrote:
Inscribed thus:

I can find no evidence that M8 with 1.5 mm pitch exists - all the
references I have seen mention only 1mm and 1.25 mm pitch in this
size. What are the odds that a set screw of this nature would be
of so uncommon configuration?

A result of a search for M8x1.5 on Google (one of many returns,
BTW).

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m8x1-5-hss-tmx-round-adjustable-die-metric-left-hand-1-inch-od?utm_source=google_pr;utm_medium=cpc;utm_campaig n=Dies-Round-google_pr;infoParam.campaignId=T9F

The die in that photo shows M12x1 RH a standard size.

Of course. A lot of these places use one photo for all of a
generic type of product. (And M12x1 is actually not that standard --
except as the spindle thread on an old Unimat DB-200 or SL-1000. :-)

Its often used for lead screws on metric machines being one turn per
millimeter. I have a saw that uses it for the rise n fall mechanism.

And note that as a result of the boilerplate that they used, it
also says "THREADS PER INCH" instead of "Thread Pitch (mm)" as it
should. :-)

Ah... I missed that :-(

Try this URL -- for a M6x1 die (a quite standard size):


http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m6x1-0-hss-iso-metric-tmx-round-adjustable-die-coarse-thread-1-inch-od

Or this one (M4x0.5)


http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m4-5x-5-hss-iso-metric-tmx-round-adjustable-die-fine-thread-1-inch-od

Note also that M12x1 is *not* a usually 1" diameter die. Not
enough meat in that diameter.

Here is their M12x1, and it is 1-1/2" diameter.

Yes my die is 1.5" dia.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/industrial-tools/Dies1-Round/m12x1-25-hss-iso-metric-tmx-round-adjustable-die-fine-thread-1-1-2-inch-od

So -- don't believe the pictures. :-) The ad people who build
the web site don't know what they are talking about. :-)

That is very true. Some of the catalogues that are sent out are
hilarious.

Enjoy,
DoN.


--
Best Regards:
Baron.