http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....

--
Ed Huntress

On 2/5/2012 1:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....

I was thinking about setting the transfer up near a cop shop parking lot.

Milwaukee has had a number of robberies of folks showing up to do
Craig's List business and then guns come out. Seems to me that doing it
near lots of police should be safe.

David

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Jon

Fer****ssake, maybe the "6 or 7" rounds fired could possibly mean maybe 8.

And the assailant wasn't incapacitated since he was able to flee or
potentially shoot wildly if his shotgun had been loaded.. or pull a second
gun and kill numerous innocents.
A forehead hit that doesn't drop a person sounds like the two rounds were
grazes. I don't believe anyone runs well with a hot round embedded in a leg,
although I haven't experienced it, or the associated adrenaline peak which
may have be a factor.

The six rounds or more could've easily killed innocents who may have been
hiding behind something, or otherwise concealed by some flimsy material
(other side of a drywall partition, for example).

No one but the assailant could've known the shotgun wasn't loaded.. but the
shooter's gun handling skills aren't exactly worthy of praise.
Range targets are not people in an intense or desperate situation.. nor are
they near innocent bystanders.

I recommend that anyone giving ammo to a stranger should make sure their own
fingerprints and SSN are marked on each round.

Bragging about giving ammo to a stranger is something I'd expect from a few
others here in RCM.

--
WB
..........


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 18:24:07 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Fer****ssake, maybe the "6 or 7" rounds fired could possibly mean maybe 8.

And the assailant wasn't incapacitated since he was able to flee or
potentially shoot wildly if his shotgun had been loaded.. or pull a second
gun and kill numerous innocents.
A forehead hit that doesn't drop a person sounds like the two rounds were
grazes. I don't believe anyone runs well with a hot round embedded in a leg,
although I haven't experienced it, or the associated adrenaline peak which
may have be a factor.

The six rounds or more could've easily killed innocents who may have been
hiding behind something, or otherwise concealed by some flimsy material
(other side of a drywall partition, for example).

No one but the assailant could've known the shotgun wasn't loaded.. but the
shooter's gun handling skills aren't exactly worthy of praise.
Range targets are not people in an intense or desperate situation.. nor are
they near innocent bystanders.

I recommend that anyone giving ammo to a stranger should make sure their own
fingerprints and SSN are marked on each round.

Bragging about giving ammo to a stranger is something I'd expect from a few
others here in RCM.

Considering the guy's background, I'd want to be wearing a ballistic
vest when I passed it over to him.

Given the guy's shooting skills, it sounds like the best place to be
is right in front of him....

--
Ed Huntress

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no firearms"
sign, for one reason.

--
WB
..........


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 18:24:07 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Fer****ssake, maybe the "6 or 7" rounds fired could possibly mean maybe 8.

And the assailant wasn't incapacitated since he was able to flee or
potentially shoot wildly if his shotgun had been loaded.. or pull a second
gun and kill numerous innocents.
A forehead hit that doesn't drop a person sounds like the two rounds were
grazes. I don't believe anyone runs well with a hot round embedded in a
leg,
although I haven't experienced it, or the associated adrenaline peak which
may have be a factor.

The six rounds or more could've easily killed innocents who may have been
hiding behind something, or otherwise concealed by some flimsy material
(other side of a drywall partition, for example).

No one but the assailant could've known the shotgun wasn't loaded.. but
the
shooter's gun handling skills aren't exactly worthy of praise.
Range targets are not people in an intense or desperate situation.. nor
are
they near innocent bystanders.

I recommend that anyone giving ammo to a stranger should make sure their
own
fingerprints and SSN are marked on each round.

Bragging about giving ammo to a stranger is something I'd expect from a
few
others here in RCM.

Considering the guy's background, I'd want to be wearing a ballistic
vest when I passed it over to him.

Given the guy's shooting skills, it sounds like the best place to be
is right in front of him....

--
Ed Huntress

I think it's an interesting idea, but I wouldn't want to get involved in
this case.

Interesting, how he made eye contact with a customer behind the shotgun
holder, and signalled the other customer to stand aside. Sounds like the
fellow with the 9 was practicing situational awareness, and that he was
being considerate of the other shoppers.

Hit the suspect in the leg and in the forehead? That's some interesting
sight control, or lack thereof.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.


I was thinking about setting the transfer up near a cop shop parking lot.

Milwaukee has had a number of robberies of folks showing up to do
Craig's List business and then guns come out. Seems to me that doing it
near lots of police should be safe.

David

Leg, and forehead? That's a pretty wide group to print.

Wonder what loads those were? Might have been the ineffective nines we hear
about?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Jon

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Huh? He needs to spend a lot more time with targets at a range. He
fired 7 shots and only hit the guy twice, once in the forehead and
leg.

HINT: Those parts are nowhere near each other.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin

On 2012-02-06, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Huh? He needs to spend a lot more time with targets at a range. He
fired 7 shots and only hit the guy twice, once in the forehead and
leg.

It is not easy to hit a moving person from 20 feet away, with a
handgun, in a stressful situation.

i

On 2/5/2012 6:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Leg, and forehead? That's a pretty wide group to print.

Wonder what loads those were? Might have been the ineffective nines we hear
about?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

He told me it was 9mm 147 grain hollow point.

David

On 2/5/2012 7:18 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Huh? He needs to spend a lot more time with targets at a range. He
fired 7 shots and only hit the guy twice, once in the forehead and
leg.

HINT: Those parts are nowhere near each other.

But still a lot better than many cop shoots.

David

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:44:19 -0600, Ignoramus15251
wrote:

On 2012-02-06, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Huh? He needs to spend a lot more time with targets at a range. He
fired 7 shots and only hit the guy twice, once in the forehead and
leg.

It is not easy to hit a moving person from 20 feet away, with a
handgun, in a stressful situation.

No, but there's a 3 foot height difference, minimum, between the
forehead and leg. 20' really isn't much distance, either. Follow your
front sight and drop the bad guy.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:32:24 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....


According to the article:
---
Court records show he was adjudicated as a juvenile of armed and
masked robbery and was incarcerated....

He's had other run-ins with the law related to guns, but none led to
convictions.

Charges of being a felon with a gun, furnishing a gun to a felon and
pointing a gun at someone were all dismissed, records show.

He has successfully petitioned for the return of guns seized by police
during other investigations....
---

Sounds like an American success story - youngster goes wrong,
punishment leads to rehabilitation.

cheers,

Schweik

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:34:27 +0700, Schweik
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:32:24 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....


According to the article:
---
Court records show he was adjudicated as a juvenile of armed and
masked robbery and was incarcerated....

He's had other run-ins with the law related to guns, but none led to
convictions.

Charges of being a felon with a gun, furnishing a gun to a felon and
pointing a gun at someone were all dismissed, records show.

He has successfully petitioned for the return of guns seized by police
during other investigations....
---

Sounds like an American success story - youngster goes wrong,
punishment leads to rehabilitation.

cheers,

Schweik

Uh, right. Salt of the earth.

He's lucky that shotgun the robber aimed at him was unloaded, eh?

--
Ed Humtress

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Jon

In the LEG AND the Forehead?

Id strongly...strongly..suggest he redo his firearms training.
Seriously.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 17:18:39 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Huh? He needs to spend a lot more time with targets at a range. He
fired 7 shots and only hit the guy twice, once in the forehead and
leg.

HINT: Those parts are nowhere near each other.


On the other hand he did what apparently he intended to do. stop a
hold-up.

cheers,

Schweik

On 2/5/2012 11:32 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....



You don't have to worry about David. Don't you remember? He's the guy
with all the Mensa friends and the huge IQ. People like him don't make
stupid mistakes like us ordinary folk. You should have known that before
warning someone who is way too smart to need advice from someone at your
IQ level.

Hawke

On 2/5/2012 9:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Jon

In the LEG AND the Forehead?

Id strongly...strongly..suggest he redo his firearms training.
Seriously.

Gunner


For once I agree with Goober. That was some pretty bad shooting. Seven
shots at the bad guy and not a single center of mass hit. That guy needs
a lot more time at the range. But then that is what you should expect
from most people. What do you think the average CCW holder does to be a
good shooter?

I can tell you not much. Most people with a permit shoot a few boxes of
ammo a year in practice if you're lucky, and that's it. So they aren't
usually very good shots. Then throw in the fact none of them has been in
a real shooting and what you have is someone with no experience and very
little time practicing. How do you think they would do when faced with a
real shootout? Probably about how this guy did.

What would have happened if the shooter was experienced with guns and
practiced all the time? I'd say the guy he was shooting at would be
dead. But you aren't going to get that in most people with a permit.
Lot's of them are old folks who can barely even clear a jam without help.

Hawke

On 2/6/2012 11:40 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 2/5/2012 9:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html


I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Jon

In the LEG AND the Forehead?

Id strongly...strongly..suggest he redo his firearms training.
Seriously.

Gunner


For once I agree with Goober. That was some pretty bad shooting. Seven
shots at the bad guy and not a single center of mass hit. That guy needs
a lot more time at the range. But then that is what you should expect
from most people. What do you think the average CCW holder does to be a
good shooter?

Well, okay. But did his efforts result in stopping the robbery, or
didn't they? Give the guy some credit.

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 11:43:11 -0800, George Plimpton
wrote:

On 2/6/2012 11:40 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 2/5/2012 9:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html


I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Jon

In the LEG AND the Forehead?

Id strongly...strongly..suggest he redo his firearms training.
Seriously.

Gunner


For once I agree with Goober. That was some pretty bad shooting. Seven
shots at the bad guy and not a single center of mass hit. That guy needs
a lot more time at the range. But then that is what you should expect
from most people. What do you think the average CCW holder does to be a
good shooter?

Well, okay. But did his efforts result in stopping the robbery, or
didn't they? Give the guy some credit.

This case really provides some food for thought. Suppose that
Al-Mujaahid, when *he* was the robber and he robbed that store at
gunpoint, and for which he was incarcerated, had run into some other
citizen who was carrying like he was in this case, or perhaps an
off-duty cop? Maybe he'd be dead. Or maybe he would have killed
someone, for which he would still be in prison.

So he's benefitting from a law that might have killed him or sent him
up for life when the tables were reversed, and he was the robber. Now
he's a big advocate for citizens carrying concealed guns. Timing is
everything, eh?

Not to mention that the guy with the shotgun was dumb enough not to
load it before going into the store. The way Al-Mujaahid was shooting,
he'd probably be so ventilated that, if his body was propped up in a
good breeze, you could play "The Star Spangled Banner" on his chest.

These cases are rarely clear-cut. Mostly it's a matter of whose number
just came up.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2/6/2012 1:28 PM, Hawwke-ptooey wrote:
On 2/5/2012 11:32 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html



I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the
ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for
supplying another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who
was robbing the store? Hmmm....



You don't have to worry about David.

True.

Don't you remember? He's the guy with all the Mensa friends and the
huge IQ.

I never mentioned what my IQ is.

People like him don't make stupid mistakes like us ordinary folk.

Actually, no, I gave you credit for probably being high normal. I make
lots of mistakes, that may be one, but, unlike you, I learn from my
mistakes.


You should have known that before warning someone who is way too
smart to need advice from someone at your IQ level.

Hawwke-ptooey

Ed has written much worth reading, Hawwke-ptooey not so much. As
entertainment instead of information, he amuses but I expect little else
form our village idiot.

David

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:32:24 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....


You might want to re-read the article. He was NOT convicted of the
supplying charge and it was, in fact, dropped. His other "crimes"
were not enough to keep him from getting the permit. I say
congratulations to him and to stick with his principles of not
patronizing any establishment that prohibits guns. Perhaps now the
store will reconsider it's policy.
Jim

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

Jim

On 2012-02-07, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

Jim

Very well stated.

i

On 2/6/2012 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

I agree.

On 2/6/2012 7:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:32:24 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:06:04 -0600, "David R. Birch"
wrote:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he used.

David

Be careful about giving him your address, though. He's a convicted
armed robber who's served time, and he's been arrested for supplying
another felon with a gun. I wonder if it was the one who was robbing
the store? Hmmm....


You might want to re-read the article. He was NOT convicted of the
supplying charge and it was, in fact, dropped.

eddie gets lots of important details wrong.


His other "crimes"
were not enough to keep him from getting the permit. I say
congratulations to him and to stick with his principles of not
patronizing any establishment that prohibits guns. Perhaps now the
store will reconsider it's policy.
Jim

On 2/6/2012 7:31 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/6/2012 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was
about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam
video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his
trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled
muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no
firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

I agree.


I'm not surprised. I doubt you would have done any better. But the truth
is that was some bad shooting by anybody's standards. If you can't hit a
man sized target at 20 feet then you ought to turn in your gun and start
carrying a sword.

Hawke

On 2/6/2012 11:43 AM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/6/2012 11:40 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 2/5/2012 9:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:37:56 -0600, Jon
wrote:

David R. Birch wrote:




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html



I'm exchanging email with Nazir so I can buy him a box of the ammo he
used.

Hmmm, sounds like he needs better ammo, he shot the guy twice,
once in the FOREHEAD, and he ran off????

Jon

In the LEG AND the Forehead?

Id strongly...strongly..suggest he redo his firearms training.
Seriously.

Gunner


For once I agree with Goober. That was some pretty bad shooting. Seven
shots at the bad guy and not a single center of mass hit. That guy needs
a lot more time at the range. But then that is what you should expect
from most people. What do you think the average CCW holder does to be a
good shooter?

Well, okay. But did his efforts result in stopping the robbery, or
didn't they? Give the guy some credit.


For effectiveness in stopping a crime I give him an "A". He did what you
would like to see a CCW carrier do. He stopped a crime in progress that
could have resulted in harm to innocent people. I'm just saying he isn't
a very good shot. That's why it's good for most people to have a high
capacity firearm so they can keep shooting until they hit the target.

Hawke

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 03:32:32 -0800 (PST), "Denis G."
wrote:

On Feb 5, 8:16*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:44:19 -0600, Ignoramus15251
It is not easy to hit a moving person from 20 feet away, with a
handgun, in a stressful situation.

No, but there's a 3 foot height difference, minimum, between the
forehead and leg. *20' really isn't much distance, either. Follow your
front sight and drop the bad guy.


"Duck" is also a verb.

What kind of self-respecting perp would duck when he's holding a
shotgun? He'd turn, thinking to shoot the guy with the gun. Well,
until he heard/felt said gun firing into his forehead, etc.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:38:59 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 03:32:32 -0800 (PST), "Denis G."
wrote:

On Feb 5, 8:16*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:44:19 -0600, Ignoramus15251
It is not easy to hit a moving person from 20 feet away, with a
handgun, in a stressful situation.

No, but there's a 3 foot height difference, minimum, between the
forehead and leg. *20' really isn't much distance, either. Follow your
front sight and drop the bad guy.


"Duck" is also a verb.

What kind of self-respecting perp would duck when he's holding a
shotgun? He'd turn, thinking to shoot the guy with the gun.

The shotgun ws not loaded. So the robber was of questionable sanity to
begin with.

--
Ed Huntress

Well,
until he heard/felt said gun firing into his forehead, etc.

If these two authors weren't so hell bent on their own agendas, they might
have understood what I wrote (not what they thought I meant).

I didn't state the shooter had no skill (nor did I imply I do).. I
speculated that he wasn't prepared mentally.. to deliver a shot to body
center mass (to potentially kill an assailant).

It seems that the shooter hadn't made the committment to do that, or
couldn't do it in that situation (the mentally prepared comment).
The responsibility of discharging rounds in public places shouldn't be taken
lightly.. but heroic characters in movies do it all the time.
Hint - the guns aren't real.

It's what many would-be heros commonly try to do, wound or scare off an
assailant with spray-and-pray gunfire.
He didn't stop/drop the assailant.
He may have put others' lives at risk with his missed shots.. 4 or 5 misses,
all with the potential to kill (maybe 6 because the forehead shot apparently
was a near miss, maybe the leg shot was, too).

He didn't defend anyones' lives.. he defended the store's money, in reality.
That's the purpose of the security cameras.
It's likely the robber would've been caught whether or not the shooter
fired.

Spray-and-pray defensive shooting is what's too commonly seen in movies, and
also takes place in real life situations (the bank robbery in Hollywood
years ago by the robbers nearly fully covered in body armor).

Like every other instance that's been presented about any other situation, I
wasn't there.

And I'm fairly certain that George and n427c haven't interviewed the other
people who were in the vicinity of those missed shots.

Maybe I'm just not gullible enough to believe that would-be hero citizens
discharging firearms in public places makes life safer or that those actions
will end these sorts of crimes.
I'm not anti-gun or anti-gun rights, as was probably assumed.

--
WB
..........


On 2/6/2012 7:31 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/6/2012 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was
about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam
video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his
trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled
muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no
firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

I agree.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:59:39 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/6/2012 7:31 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/6/2012 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was
about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam
video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his
trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled
muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no
firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

I agree.


I'm not surprised. I doubt you would have done any better. But the truth
is that was some bad shooting by anybody's standards. If you can't hit a
man sized target at 20 feet then you ought to turn in your gun and start
carrying a sword.

Hawke


That's easy for you to say but I suspect that if you were in the same
position, nervous to start with and someone swinging a shotgun in your
direction, you wouldn't be such a great shot either. Self
preservation is a powerful force and will make you miss the target
more than once (see the referenced video above, if you can find it.).

Jim

On 2/8/2012 2:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:59:39 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/6/2012 7:31 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/6/2012 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was
about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam
video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his
trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled
muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no
firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

I agree.


I'm not surprised. I doubt you would have done any better. But the truth
is that was some bad shooting by anybody's standards. If you can't hit a
man sized target at 20 feet then you ought to turn in your gun and start
carrying a sword.

Hawke


That's easy for you to say but I suspect that if you were in the same
position, nervous to start with and someone swinging a shotgun in your
direction, you wouldn't be such a great shot either. Self
preservation is a powerful force and will make you miss the target
more than once (see the referenced video above, if you can find it.).

Jim


You would probably be right if I was a typical kind that has a CCW
license. But I am not. Shooting is what I do for fun. I shoot every week
at least once. In fact, I'm going to the gun club I belong to in about
two hours where I will shoot two or three hundred rounds from four or
five different handguns.

In other words, I'm someone extremely used to handling guns so I'm good
at it. I've been doing this for years. And it is possible that if I was
confronted by someone with a gun I would be paralyzed with fear and
unable to use my gun competently. But I would expect that the years I've
spent making my self proficient with guns would prevail and I would hit
what I wanted to just like I do on a regular basis.

Hawke

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:13:28 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/8/2012 2:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:59:39 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/6/2012 7:31 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/6/2012 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was
about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam
video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his
trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled
muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no
firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

I agree.


I'm not surprised. I doubt you would have done any better. But the truth
is that was some bad shooting by anybody's standards. If you can't hit a
man sized target at 20 feet then you ought to turn in your gun and start
carrying a sword.

Hawke


That's easy for you to say but I suspect that if you were in the same
position, nervous to start with and someone swinging a shotgun in your
direction, you wouldn't be such a great shot either. Self
preservation is a powerful force and will make you miss the target
more than once (see the referenced video above, if you can find it.).

Jim


You would probably be right if I was a typical kind that has a CCW
license. But I am not. Shooting is what I do for fun. I shoot every week
at least once. In fact, I'm going to the gun club I belong to in about
two hours where I will shoot two or three hundred rounds from four or
five different handguns.

In other words, I'm someone extremely used to handling guns so I'm good
at it. I've been doing this for years. And it is possible that if I was
confronted by someone with a gun I would be paralyzed with fear and
unable to use my gun competently. But I would expect that the years I've
spent making my self proficient with guns would prevail and I would hit
what I wanted to just like I do on a regular basis.

Hawke

T'aint necessarily true. You are talking about the difference between
shooting in a relaxed atmosphere and not under any pressure, which is
not exactly what a bloke facing a shotgun experiences.

I can't comment on facing a shotgun but I did used to shoot a pistol
competitively and I can tell you that most, if not all people, can
shoot better in practice then they can in an actual match.

I've seen people at a match get so nervous that they were dropping
cartridges while loading a magazine and I remember being a group
talking with TSGT Alvin R. Merx (USAF) just after he set the record of
300 in the national match course with the .22. someone asked him
whether he had any problems and he laughed and said, "well, I shot 299
a few times before I cleaned it"

In other words, this guy who was one of the top shooters in the U.S.
and probably shot 25 - 30 matches a year freely admitted that he got a
bit nervous in matches. And no one is shooting back at you in a match
:-)

Cheers

John B.

On 2/8/2012 6:13 PM, Hawwke-ptooey wrote:

You would probably be right if I was a typical kind that has a CCW
license. But I am not. Shooting is what I do for fun. I shoot every week
at least once. In fact, I'm going to the gun club I belong to in about
two hours where I will shoot two or three hundred rounds from four or
five different handguns.

In other words, I'm someone extremely used to handling guns so I'm good
at it. I've been doing this for years. And it is possible that if I was
confronted by someone with a gun I would be paralyzed with fear and
unable to use my gun competently. But I would expect that the years I've
spent making my self proficient with guns would prevail and I would hit
what I wanted to just like I do on a regular basis.

Hawwke-ptooey

Just be sure to tell your target first that he's about to be shot by an
educated person with a poli sci BA. I'm sure he will be as impressed as
we all are.

David

On 2/8/2012 8:08 PM, David R. Birch wrote:
On 2/8/2012 6:13 PM, Hawwke-ptooey wrote:

You would probably be right if I was a typical kind that has a CCW
license. But I am not. Shooting is what I do for fun. I shoot every week
at least once. In fact, I'm going to the gun club I belong to in about
two hours where I will shoot two or three hundred rounds from four or
five different handguns.

In other words, I'm someone extremely used to handling guns so I'm good
at it. I've been doing this for years. And it is possible that if I was
confronted by someone with a gun I would be paralyzed with fear and
unable to use my gun competently. But I would expect that the years I've
spent making my self proficient with guns would prevail and I would hit
what I wanted to just like I do on a regular basis.

Hawwke-ptooey

Just be sure to tell your target first that he's about to be shot by an
educated person with a poli sci BA. I'm sure he will be as impressed as
we all are.

ROFLMAO!

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:13:28 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/8/2012 2:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:59:39 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/6/2012 7:31 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/6/2012 7:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I speculate that the shooter wasn't prepared mentally for what he was
about
to do.. it sounds like (I'm not gonna review TV reports or store cam
video)
the shooter started his aim? near the feet and the stress caused his
trigger
finger to respond in full-auto mode, possibly causing uncontrolled
muzzle
climb (toe-to-head, maybe).

I wouldn't be surprised if civil lawsuits follow.. the posted "no
firearms"
sign, for one reason.


For those who think that the guy was such a bad shot, I would direct
your attention to the video of the police officer and the criminal, at
a distance of approximately ten feet from eaach other, emptying BOTH
weapons and neither hitting the other. I wish I could remember where
I saw that. This was a trained police officer and he emptied his
weapon without a hit. The guy in this story got two hits, though not
disabling, out of seven. A far better average. When the adreneline
starts pumping things don't go exactly as planned. Until you've been
in the guys position and done better, perhaps it's better that you
keep your disparaging comments to yourself. Just a thought.

I agree.


I'm not surprised. I doubt you would have done any better. But the truth
is that was some bad shooting by anybody's standards. If you can't hit a
man sized target at 20 feet then you ought to turn in your gun and start
carrying a sword.

Hawke


That's easy for you to say but I suspect that if you were in the same
position, nervous to start with and someone swinging a shotgun in your
direction, you wouldn't be such a great shot either. Self
preservation is a powerful force and will make you miss the target
more than once (see the referenced video above, if you can find it.).

Jim


You would probably be right if I was a typical kind that has a CCW
license. But I am not. Shooting is what I do for fun. I shoot every week
at least once. In fact, I'm going to the gun club I belong to in about
two hours where I will shoot two or three hundred rounds from four or
five different handguns.

In other words, I'm someone extremely used to handling guns so I'm good
at it. I've been doing this for years. And it is possible that if I was
confronted by someone with a gun I would be paralyzed with fear and
unable to use my gun competently. But I would expect that the years I've
spent making my self proficient with guns would prevail and I would hit
what I wanted to just like I do on a regular basis.

Hawke

One would hope so but we don't know until that moment in time where
you have to make the decision. I, too, am what I would consider a
proficient shooter, shoot every chance I get, shoot some competition,
have been a cop, 21 years in the military, but I don't know for
certain what I would do if the situation arose. I would hope that I
would make the right decisions and come out on top, but I don't know.

Jim

On Feb 7, 7:49*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:38:59 -0800, Larry Jaques









wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 03:32:32 -0800 (PST), "Denis G."
wrote:

On Feb 5, 8:16*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:44:19 -0600, Ignoramus15251
It is not easy to hit a moving person from 20 feet away, with a
handgun, in a stressful situation.

No, but there's a 3 foot height difference, minimum, between the
forehead and leg. *20' really isn't much distance, either. Follow your
front sight and drop the bad guy.

"Duck" is also a verb.

What kind of self-respecting perp would duck when he's holding a
shotgun? *He'd turn, thinking to shoot the guy with the gun.

The shotgun ws not loaded. So the robber was of questionable sanity to
begin with.

--
Ed Huntress







Well,u until he heard/felt said gun firing into his forehead, etc.

Getting caught with a loaded shotgun probably gets you more time in
the hoosegow than getting caught with an unloaded one. He probably
wasn't entirely insane.