Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
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Default oh shoot

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business out of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live in and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE
  #2   Report Post  
Rex B
 
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Grant Erwin wrote:
I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication
business out of my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic
little suburb I live in and found out that they certainly allow
businesses in homes, but none with welding. Ack. Anyone run into this
before?


Request a variance?
Testimonials from all the neighbors might help.
  #3   Report Post  
SteveB
 
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"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business
out of my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb
I live in and found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but
none with welding. Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE


Yep. The less you tell city hall about what you do, the better. Depending
on your neighborhood, you can conduct business of a sort. I did it for
years, but I was on a rural ranch estate zoning, a RRE1, which has a minimum
lot size of one acre, and allows horses. Everyone in the neighborhood was
in some kind of business, and all had trucks and/or some type of equipment.
So, no one complained. And there is the rub. As long as no one complains,
all goes well. But, when the first one complains, there you go.

I would imagine that you could do some work if you don't have close nosy
irritable types of neighbors. After that, it's a craps shoot.

Welding and fabricating businesses are usually delegated to a M1 zone, which
is for manufacturing. Lots of guys have home garage shops and do some work.
Some keep the doors shut, and it is impossible to tell what they are doing
in there. It is just when you cause additional traffic coming into the
neighborhood, parking problems, onsite or on street storage/parking of
equipment or projects, increases in the noise levels, and such that zoning
and permits become involved.

A lot depends on your neighborhood. And your neighbors.

Grant, meet City Hall. City Hall, meet Grant.

Steve


  #4   Report Post  
SteveB
 
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"Ignoramus4243" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:45:55 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:
I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business
out of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live
in and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with
welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?


Do not get me started on city inspectors and nosey neighbors...

That said... How would they know what you do, if you do it in your
garage?

i


For guys that do machining, or just fabricating, that might be so. But when
you start making electrical arcs, there is noise and smoke and light.
That's pretty hard to hide. Don't even get me started on grinding.

Sounds something like Dr. Frankenstein in there, and it doesn't take a
rocket surgeon to know what's going on.

Steve


  #5   Report Post  
Tom Gardner
 
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"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business
out of my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb
I live in and found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but
none with welding. Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE


I think the biggest problem is due to OA tanks. Most home-owner insurance
policies have a void clause if OA tanks are on your property. Are you OA
welding? You might get around this if it's a problem by going to
propane-oxygen. Tell them you are doing explosive welding...see where THAT
gets you. (What are buds for)




  #6   Report Post  
Richard J Kinch
 
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Grant Erwin writes:

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication
business out of my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic
little suburb I live in and found out that they certainly allow
businesses in homes, but none with welding. Ack. Anyone run into this
before?


Here is Palm Beach County, Florida, we have a "right to work in your
house" county law that overrides any local zoning nazis. This basically
sez you can run any business, that is otherwise lawful, as long as it
isn't apparent to the neighbors. For example, if I am permitted to weld
in my garage as a hobby, I should be able to do so for a living, if I
can keep it absolutely quiet. The key is doing work quietly in the
garage and not in the yard or in and out of the driveway. No signs or
customers calling. No advertising with your home address on it. It is
not that it has to be a secret, but just not apparent from the street.

If your zoning or whatever tries to prohibit this, then the following
factors are likely causes: (1) the established competition has gotten
the local gummint to legislate a restraint of trade to outlaw you
competing with them, or (2) the zoning busybodies have tried to outlaw
anything in a residential neighborhood. By "busybodies" I mean they
would literally like to prohibit things like writing or consulting over
the Internet for a living from the privacy of your home. The "right to
work" anti-zoning law here trumps that.

Now when you say "steel fabrication business out of my home", most
people are going to visualize a turbine-powered 20-foot gantry in your
side yard looming over a pile of rusty girders, steam locomotives, and
scrap metal. Maybe you just mean to make stuff you can hold at arms
length, but you're fighting a contrary assumption.

It may be that by the term "welding" there is some phobia over
compressed gases that is a pretext for zoning it absolutely out of
residential neighborhoods. Maybe you can find a definitional loophole
if you only do arc type welding.

You should carefully research what the overall zoning is in your
neighborhood. A lot of areas are so bad you can't fight it; the only
solution is to move. Sometimes you can do what you want as long as you
don't anger a neighbor (perhaps over something else) who then reports
you (happened to me in a previous locale).

If you are serious and want to have your rights, you will be much more
effective hiring a lawyer, once you know what your rights are. If you
don't want to pay for a lawyer, then you weren't that serious about it
to start with.
  #7   Report Post  
Leo Lichtman
 
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Default


"SteveB" wrote: (clip) A lot depends on your neighborhood. And your
neighbors. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absolutely! If you are the kind of person who has been doing little repairs
for the neighbors, and everyone smiles when they see you working, the
chances are that no one will complain, and you will be okay. But, I would
be really leery of investing a lot in your shop, 'cuz if even one person
goes down to city hall and complains, they'll have no choice but to shut you
down.

I know one guy who built an elaborate woodshop behind his house, and gave
classes. The parking problem annoyed some of his neighbors, and he started
having trouble with the city. The regulations can be very restrictive. No
more than a certain percent of your home can be used. The customers must
enter through the front door. An a whole bunch of other stuff which is
designed to keep you from becoming too visible and too commercial.


  #8   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
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I think the biggest problem is due to OA tanks. Most home-owner insurance
policies have a void clause if OA tanks are on your property. Are you OA
welding? You might get around this if it's a problem by going to
propane-oxygen. Tell them you are doing explosive welding...see where THAT
gets you. (What are buds for)


Wow. I'll check my homeowner's policy. I do own a set of O/A tanks but I almost
never use 'em, mostly keep them for sentimental reasons. Maybe once a year I
have to use the cutting torch to make a meatball cut. Maybe it's time to sell them.

I normally stick weld outside, in my driveway. However, I recently got a
Millermatic 250 MIG welder, and with a fume extractor I could probably weld
inside, or maybe with the door only slightly open to let out an exhaust vent
tube. I can certainly come up with a welding curtain.

No outside storage, ow that hurts too. Looks like all my steel's gonna go to
Ernie's welding class, at least it's a good cause.

GWE
  #9   Report Post  
RDF
 
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Welcome to hell my friend.... Been there done that, and it's one of the
reasons I'm moving shops now. Mine was not really welding (but it did come
up) I own a racing engine co. and I have two dynos. They denied me permits
due to noise restrictions. Granted, this is OVER a flight path less than 3/4
of a mile away from Midway airport (MDW) In Chicago.... Noise? Um. those
jets don't bug the other tenants in the industrial park. No joke, It defies
logic completely. I got a shop closer to Chinatown. Closer to people,
believe that one.. I scratched my head for a while.


Rob

Fraser Competition Engines
Chicago, IL.
Long Beach, CA.

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business
out of my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb
I live in and found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but
none with welding. Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE



  #10   Report Post  
carl mciver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
|
| I think the biggest problem is due to OA tanks. Most home-owner
insurance
| policies have a void clause if OA tanks are on your property. Are you
OA
| welding? You might get around this if it's a problem by going to
| propane-oxygen. Tell them you are doing explosive welding...see where
THAT
| gets you. (What are buds for)
|
| Wow. I'll check my homeowner's policy. I do own a set of O/A tanks but I
almost
| never use 'em, mostly keep them for sentimental reasons. Maybe once a year
I
| have to use the cutting torch to make a meatball cut. Maybe it's time to
sell them.
|
| I normally stick weld outside, in my driveway. However, I recently got a
| Millermatic 250 MIG welder, and with a fume extractor I could probably
weld
| inside, or maybe with the door only slightly open to let out an exhaust
vent
| tube. I can certainly come up with a welding curtain.
|
| No outside storage, ow that hurts too. Looks like all my steel's gonna go
to
| Ernie's welding class, at least it's a good cause.
|
| GWE

I just called my Farmer's agent and he says no problem with welding
equipment in your garage, as long as you don't (read that as _never_) accept
any work for money (that also means, I assume, they can't find out about any
transactions.) I was glad to hear that, especially as my welding is too bad
to ever think about making someone pay for it. Now that I think about it, I
wonder exactly how they define "paying for it" as it relates to "donations"
and bartering? I'm not gonna go there with my agent, even though he's been
really great for me.



  #11   Report Post  
 
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Try thinking about what kind of business you want to do. And then
think of how you might describe it to the city. Could it be that you
are selling metal architectural parts? Never mind where you get them.
For all the city knows you might be importing them from Bainbridge.
The city is likely to look favorably on consulting, retail sales( if
not heavy traffic ) , design, etc. Not likely to like the idea of you
manufacturing and selling to a wholesaler.

Once you have a license, they are likely to forgive the occasional work
you have to do to modify something so that it works for the builder (
unless the neighbors complain ).

Dan

  #12   Report Post  
Ernie Leimkuhler
 
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In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business out
of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live in
and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with
welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE


If you set it up that all welding is done elsewhere, and not at your
house, how can they complain.

Most construction welders weld from their truck based generator on
jobsites.

Renton never bothered me about it.

--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams
  #13   Report Post  
SteveB
 
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"Ignoramus4243" wrote

I want to weld and not be disturbing to my neighbors.

i


This is a very difficult thing for any of us to answer. We don't know
anything about your property. How big a piece of property do you have? Do
your neighbors do any work outside? Is there fire hazards? (dry grass,
trees, leaves, etc)

Yes, it is possible to make a dedicated welding area. That is not the worst
part. The worst part can be molten metal from OA cutting, grinding sparks,
and an obnoxiously loud cutoff saw.

One size does not fit all, and we are at a loss to tell you what to do
because we haven't been to your house. Many people who do welding in home
shops have no problems because of the types of work they do. You can weld
in all sorts of places, and each has its hazards.

Welding gives off noises, smoke, and a bright light that can be seen for
miles at night. It is impossible for us to say if that will bother YOUR
neighbors.

Steve


  #14   Report Post  
Eric R Snow
 
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On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:45:55 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business out of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live in and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE

Greetings Grant,
When I set up business in Redmond there were some restrictions about
home based businesses. But talking with a fellow who claimed to know
said that the city really can't restrict you that much if what you do
does not disturb the neighbors, no matter what an ordinance might say.
Especially if there are other people doing the same thing you want to
do already. I'm no expert, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
But there were all kinds of businesses in my neighborhood that would
be considered dirty and industrial, such as welding, auto body, auto
painting, auto repair, and me with machines. Also, there were less
obvious ones, like insurance and interior design consulting. And one
house had a Watkins (I think that's the name) spice retail store in
their garage. It was sorta like tupperware I think. You had to call
first to make sure they were home if you wanted to pick the spices up.
But they shipped from their house all over the place. And I often saw
a semi out in front of their house unloading boxes and boxes of
spices, vanilla, and who knows what else. All this in a development
with covenants that prohibited any kind of home based business. So
check with an attorney and see waht they say. And of course the
library will have books that can help.
Cheers,
Eric

  #15   Report Post  
R. Zimmerman
 
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Default

Wait a minute Grant. Aren't you an artist??? You are making works of art
are you not?? :')))
Randy
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business
out of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live in
and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with
welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE




  #16   Report Post  
Jon Elson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

SteveB wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business
out of my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb
I live in and found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but
none with welding. Ack. Anyone run into this before?


A lot depends on your neighborhood. And your neighbors.

Grant, meet City Hall. City Hall, meet Grant.

Steve

Yeah, we had a somewhat celebrated case in the St. Louis area where a
lady got served with a court order for TEACHING PIANO in her home!
I think she finally got a sympathetic judge to rule that what she was
doing was not a "commercial enterprise" under the local zoning rules,
but she was out of business for about a year. The problem was that
parents were dropping off and picking up kids at her house!

So, I suppose, you could probably be served with a court order to
cease and desist having friends visit you or your kids at your own
house, if your neighbors are crazy enough.

And, of course, there was the really celebrated case where the
Chicago school teacher couple were forced to rent an office, because
they were using TYPEWRITERS in their own home to prepare lesson
plans and tests for their classes in their home. This was back in
the late 70's or early 80's.

The bottom line is the rules are interpreted by "those in authority",
and they can have incredibly wide interpretation of the meaning of the
ordinances, until a court hopefully brings them back to reality.

Jon

  #17   Report Post  
Waynemak
 
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Default

I have one of those garbage can sheds I keep my tanks in, its about 100 feet
from the house, I never cut with OA in my garage just out in the driveway.
Hope thats ok with the insurace. Only cylinders inside is inert gas.
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I think the biggest problem is due to OA tanks. Most home-owner
insurance policies have a void clause if OA tanks are on your property.
Are you OA welding? You might get around this if it's a problem by going
to propane-oxygen. Tell them you are doing explosive welding...see where
THAT gets you. (What are buds for)


Wow. I'll check my homeowner's policy. I do own a set of O/A tanks but I
almost never use 'em, mostly keep them for sentimental reasons. Maybe once
a year I have to use the cutting torch to make a meatball cut. Maybe it's
time to sell them.

I normally stick weld outside, in my driveway. However, I recently got a
Millermatic 250 MIG welder, and with a fume extractor I could probably
weld inside, or maybe with the door only slightly open to let out an
exhaust vent tube. I can certainly come up with a welding curtain.

No outside storage, ow that hurts too. Looks like all my steel's gonna go
to Ernie's welding class, at least it's a good cause.

GWE



  #18   Report Post  
Martin H. Eastburn
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Buy a tent.
Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Grant Erwin wrote:

I think the biggest problem is due to OA tanks. Most home-owner
insurance policies have a void clause if OA tanks are on your
property. Are you OA welding? You might get around this if it's a
problem by going to propane-oxygen. Tell them you are doing explosive
welding...see where THAT gets you. (What are buds for)



Wow. I'll check my homeowner's policy. I do own a set of O/A tanks but I
almost never use 'em, mostly keep them for sentimental reasons. Maybe
once a year I have to use the cutting torch to make a meatball cut.
Maybe it's time to sell them.

I normally stick weld outside, in my driveway. However, I recently got a
Millermatic 250 MIG welder, and with a fume extractor I could probably
weld inside, or maybe with the door only slightly open to let out an
exhaust vent tube. I can certainly come up with a welding curtain.

No outside storage, ow that hurts too. Looks like all my steel's gonna
go to Ernie's welding class, at least it's a good cause.

GWE


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  #19   Report Post  
Martin H. Eastburn
 
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I walked my farmers agent through my metal shop. Showed how it was locked and constructed.
He thought like a tank. I think an armor car. Didn't say. It is 200 yards from the house
and has its own power drop and meter and bill. He knew I was starting Plasma as he offered
to show off some stuff at his office. No issue - far from home - and a metal building .

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



carl mciver wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
|
| I think the biggest problem is due to OA tanks. Most home-owner
insurance
| policies have a void clause if OA tanks are on your property. Are you
OA
| welding? You might get around this if it's a problem by going to
| propane-oxygen. Tell them you are doing explosive welding...see where
THAT
| gets you. (What are buds for)
|
| Wow. I'll check my homeowner's policy. I do own a set of O/A tanks but I
almost
| never use 'em, mostly keep them for sentimental reasons. Maybe once a year
I
| have to use the cutting torch to make a meatball cut. Maybe it's time to
sell them.
|
| I normally stick weld outside, in my driveway. However, I recently got a
| Millermatic 250 MIG welder, and with a fume extractor I could probably
weld
| inside, or maybe with the door only slightly open to let out an exhaust
vent
| tube. I can certainly come up with a welding curtain.
|
| No outside storage, ow that hurts too. Looks like all my steel's gonna go
to
| Ernie's welding class, at least it's a good cause.
|
| GWE

I just called my Farmer's agent and he says no problem with welding
equipment in your garage, as long as you don't (read that as _never_) accept
any work for money (that also means, I assume, they can't find out about any
transactions.) I was glad to hear that, especially as my welding is too bad
to ever think about making someone pay for it. Now that I think about it, I
wonder exactly how they define "paying for it" as it relates to "donations"
and bartering? I'm not gonna go there with my agent, even though he's been
really great for me.


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  #20   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
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Heck, I remember when I was living in Silicon Valley a guy got a $500 ticket for
having a gallon of muriatic acid in his garage. Kicker was he bought it from a
store about two blocks from his house, and every single house in his area had a
pool and stored pool chemicals including - you guessed it - muriatic. Guilty.

It was in the San Jose Mercury News back about 1994. Sheesh.

GWE

Yeah, we had a somewhat celebrated case in the St. Louis area where a
lady got served with a court order for TEACHING PIANO in her home!
I think she finally got a sympathetic judge to rule that what she was
doing was not a "commercial enterprise" under the local zoning rules,
but she was out of business for about a year. The problem was that
parents were dropping off and picking up kids at her house!

So, I suppose, you could probably be served with a court order to
cease and desist having friends visit you or your kids at your own
house, if your neighbors are crazy enough.

And, of course, there was the really celebrated case where the
Chicago school teacher couple were forced to rent an office, because
they were using TYPEWRITERS in their own home to prepare lesson
plans and tests for their classes in their home. This was back in
the late 70's or early 80's.

The bottom line is the rules are interpreted by "those in authority",
and they can have incredibly wide interpretation of the meaning of the
ordinances, until a court hopefully brings them back to reality.

Jon



  #21   Report Post  
Don Foreman
 
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Default

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:45:55 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business out of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live in and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE


In my experience (MN), ordnances largely exist to give the
authorities power to curb nuisances. I and my neighbors do all kinds
of things that there are probably rules against on the books.
Nobody cares because nobody is bothered. I've been welding in my
garage for 25 years, never once had a complaint. I don't, however,
generate any truck traffic (other than UPS) delivering materials or
picking up finished goods. That sort of activity really doesn't
belong in a residential neighborhood.

If your biz is recorded, as an S corp or LLC or whatever, you might
bill it as design engineering and consulting (sounds clean and quiet)
rather than metal fab which sounds industrial. Building
proof-of-concept prototypes from time to time is certainly part and
parcel of such a biz.

A biz with any volume probably should be set up in a business place,
but making a few this's and that's is no different from doing it as a
hobby in terms of the activities conducted or as it might affect
neighbors. Company comes once in a while, the UPS man stops a time
or two per week, no bother to anyone.

If you're unlucky enough to have busybody neighbors, you may be out of
luck. I've been real lucky that way! My neighbors definitely pay
attention and miss about nothing, but it's protective rather than
intrusive.

City Hall may be able to curb your bidness for a while, but they
can't prohibit you from having the capability unless they also
prohibit similar activites in persuit of a hobby.

It's often easier to beg forgiveness than to get permission.....

Good luck!

  #22   Report Post  
Jess
 
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Default


"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication

business
out of my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little

suburb
I live in and found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes,

but
none with welding. Ack. Anyone run into this before?


A lot depends on your neighborhood. And your neighbors.

Grant, meet City Hall. City Hall, meet Grant.

Steve

Yeah, we had a somewhat celebrated case in the St. Louis area where a
lady got served with a court order for TEACHING PIANO in her home!
I think she finally got a sympathetic judge to rule that what she was
doing was not a "commercial enterprise" under the local zoning rules,
but she was out of business for about a year. The problem was that
parents were dropping off and picking up kids at her house!

So, I suppose, you could probably be served with a court order to
cease and desist having friends visit you or your kids at your own
house, if your neighbors are crazy enough.

And, of course, there was the really celebrated case where the
Chicago school teacher couple were forced to rent an office, because
they were using TYPEWRITERS in their own home to prepare lesson
plans and tests for their classes in their home. This was back in
the late 70's or early 80's.

The bottom line is the rules are interpreted by "those in authority",
and they can have incredibly wide interpretation of the meaning of the
ordinances, until a court hopefully brings them back to reality.

Jon


I recently bought a plotter/cutter and am doing signs and graphics from my
home and it is very restrictive. I am still in the welding business but am
getting this going for when I decide to retire from welding. SO, if you need
signs or graphics you can email me at for a quote and
keep it off here. Like customers cannot come to your house. You can only use
one room of your home for this business. Any and all equipment must be
retained in that one room, not in garage, backyard, no where, except in that
one room they allow you. No signs advertising your business. If you have a
company truck, it cannot contain your business name, truck if it does have
signs on it, must not be visible from the street. Just all kinds of crap. I
should have just said screw the city and not gotten a license at all but I
am getting large enough orders that I have to have legitimate standing in
order to sell the signs and graphics that I can produce. ISN'T CITY LIFE
JUST ABSOLUTELY PEACHY.


  #23   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:29:32 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

and with a fume extractor I could probably weld
inside, or maybe with the door only slightly open to let out an exhaust vent
tube. I can certainly come up with a welding curtain.


Did I mention that recently I wound up with (5) Lincoln
"LinConditioners", which look like a mid sized shop vac, but have a
ceramic filter inside..that is used to suck up welding smoke and
filter it clean?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
  #24   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I think the biggest problem is due to OA tanks. Most home-owner
insurance policies have a void clause if OA tanks are on your property.
Are you OA welding? You might get around this if it's a problem by going
to propane-oxygen. Tell them you are doing explosive welding...see where
THAT gets you. (What are buds for)


Wow. I'll check my homeowner's policy. I do own a set of O/A tanks but I
almost never use 'em, mostly keep them for sentimental reasons. Maybe once
a year I have to use the cutting torch to make a meatball cut. Maybe it's
time to sell them.


I read my homeowner's policy carefully. No mention of welding whatever, no
exclusion for coverage if O/A tanks are present, nothing at all like that. - GWE
  #25   Report Post  
SteveB
 
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"Grant Erwin" wrote in

I read my homeowner's policy carefully. No mention of welding whatever, no
exclusion for coverage if O/A tanks are present, nothing at all like
that. - GWE


Insurance policies are like that. You don't find out what they contain or
what they mean until AFTER you have a loss. Or what the exclusions are. Or
the deductibles. Or gobbledygook ............

Good luck.

Steve




  #26   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
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"xray" wrote

I do have to admit that I was turning with my lathe around midnight and
the tool was singing because I was turning a groove and afraid to cut
hard. I think I better try to remember not to annoy much in the future.
The neighbors that I would most likely have disturbed have kids who like
the current BOOM BOOM BOOM music, so maybe we can come to an
understanding if it ever comes up.


Noise is defined by occupational safety experts as unwanted sound. "Music"
can be argued not to be noise, although at times, it is coming in so
unwanted from passing vehicles that it qualifies as noise.

But in a tug of war in court about the two points, the "singing" on the boom
box would win over the "singing" of your lathe as to which one is
acceptable.

I personally prefer the machine noise to the OOGGAH BOOGAH music and angry
filthy rantings coming out of the car stereos.

Guess I am just getting old.

Steve


  #27   Report Post  
michael
 
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Grant Erwin wrote:
Heck, I remember when I was living in Silicon Valley a guy got a $500
ticket for having a gallon of muriatic acid in his garage. Kicker was he
bought it from a store about two blocks from his house, and every single
house in his area had a pool and stored pool chemicals including - you
guessed it - muriatic. Guilty.

It was in the San Jose Mercury News back about 1994. Sheesh.

GWE

Sure glad I left that place in 85. It was pretty nice there until the
late 60s.
  #28   Report Post  
Brian Lawson
 
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On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:45:55 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business out of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live in and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE



Hey Grant,

Specific to arc, or rather to all/any "electric" welding, there is a
terrific amount of spurious TV and radio interference generated, which
is not allowed in residential areas. Maybe that's why?

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
  #29   Report Post  
Joe
 
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SteveB wrote:



I personally prefer the machine noise to the OOGGAH BOOGAH music and angry
filthy rantings coming out of the car stereos.


"Angry filthy rantings"?? Are you saying that you actually can understand those
lyrics? Hell, I can't hear anything other than the THUMP THUMP.

Joe (who does a weekly radio show featuring 60s & 70s progressive rock - some
with bleeped angry filthy rants, too)

  #30   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"SteveB" wrote:

Welding gives off noises, smoke, and a bright light that can be seen for
miles at night. It is impossible for us to say if that will bother YOUR
neighbors.


Maybe RFI from welding equipment?

Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.


  #31   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
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wrote in message ...
"SteveB" wrote:

Welding gives off noises, smoke, and a bright light that can be seen for
miles at night. It is impossible for us to say if that will bother YOUR
neighbors.


Maybe RFI from welding equipment?

Wes
--

Ok.


  #32   Report Post  
Fred R
 
Posts: n/a
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Or make it a religious thing: you are working on the Arc of the Joining
--
Fred R
________________
Drop TROU to email.

R. Zimmerman wrote:
Wait a minute Grant. Aren't you an artist??? You are making works of art
are you not?? :')))
Randy
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I've been working for months to set up a small steel fabrication business
out of
my home. Today I stopped by City Hall in the bucolic little suburb I live in
and
found out that they certainly allow businesses in homes, but none with
welding.
Ack. Anyone run into this before?

GWE


  #33   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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Default

In article , Fred R says...

Or make it a religious thing: you are working on the Arc of the Joining


It's a church, obviously.

Our lady of the holy hot-spot.

They can't pass laws about places of worship!

My favorite chuch, which I attend when the rest
of the family is at worship: The Church of John Moses Browning.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================
  #34   Report Post  
Martin H. Eastburn
 
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Sounds like an application of a GP kind of law that allows fuzzy law to exist.
I kept my acid in the pump house.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Grant Erwin wrote:
Heck, I remember when I was living in Silicon Valley a guy got a $500
ticket for having a gallon of muriatic acid in his garage. Kicker was he
bought it from a store about two blocks from his house, and every single
house in his area had a pool and stored pool chemicals including - you
guessed it - muriatic. Guilty.

It was in the San Jose Mercury News back about 1994. Sheesh.

GWE

Yeah, we had a somewhat celebrated case in the St. Louis area where a
lady got served with a court order for TEACHING PIANO in her home!
I think she finally got a sympathetic judge to rule that what she was
doing was not a "commercial enterprise" under the local zoning rules,
but she was out of business for about a year. The problem was that
parents were dropping off and picking up kids at her house!

So, I suppose, you could probably be served with a court order to
cease and desist having friends visit you or your kids at your own
house, if your neighbors are crazy enough.

And, of course, there was the really celebrated case where the
Chicago school teacher couple were forced to rent an office, because
they were using TYPEWRITERS in their own home to prepare lesson
plans and tests for their classes in their home. This was back in
the late 70's or early 80's.

The bottom line is the rules are interpreted by "those in authority",
and they can have incredibly wide interpretation of the meaning of the
ordinances, until a court hopefully brings them back to reality.

Jon


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  #35   Report Post  
steamer
 
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--Been there, done that. Verily I say unto you MOVE to another
town. By the time you're done with the permitting process you'll have
given up all rights granted you by the Constitution and that's no way
to live in one's home. If you *do* manage to go thru all the hoops
correctly all it takes is one phonecall by someone who doesn't like
what you're doing to shut down your operation permanently. The dickhead
running the local crack house shut down my operation this way.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Post Burn thought for the day:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Why wear pants?
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---


  #36   Report Post  
Harold and Susan Vordos
 
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"SteveB" wrote in message
news:8Mp_e.82955$DW1.12966@fed1read06...

"Grant Erwin" wrote in

I read my homeowner's policy carefully. No mention of welding whatever,

no
exclusion for coverage if O/A tanks are present, nothing at all like
that. - GWE


Insurance policies are like that. You don't find out what they contain or
what they mean until AFTER you have a loss. Or what the exclusions are.

Or
the deductibles. Or gobbledygook ............


Nonsense. Insurance policies are a contract, with terms well spelled out
(although often difficult to understand).. What good would they be
otherwise?

Harold



  #37   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
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"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:8Mp_e.82955$DW1.12966@fed1read06...

"Grant Erwin" wrote in

I read my homeowner's policy carefully. No mention of welding whatever,

no
exclusion for coverage if O/A tanks are present, nothing at all like
that. - GWE


Insurance policies are like that. You don't find out what they contain
or
what they mean until AFTER you have a loss. Or what the exclusions are.

Or
the deductibles. Or gobbledygook ............


Nonsense. Insurance policies are a contract, with terms well spelled
out
(although often difficult to understand).. What good would they be
otherwise?

Harold


I can tell you have not had many Encounters of the KY Variety. (dealings
with insurance companies)

The good is that they separate you from your money, and you have a heck of a
time getting it back. A contract that is difficult to understand? And yet
the average person willingly signs it. And, AS I SAID, has problems AFTER
they have a loss.............. I don't understand when you say, "What good
would they be otherwise?" after saying they are difficult to understand.
They have to be difficult to understand to be any good? Please explain your
position(s) or lack thereof.

Go to any city in the US with a population over 4 million. Pick out the ten
tallest buildings. A high percentage of them are insurance companies.

Does that tell you anything?

Steve


  #38   Report Post  
Leo Lichtman
 
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Default


"SteveB" wrote: (clip) Pick out the ten tallest buildings. A high
percentage of them are insurance companies. Does that tell you anything?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It tells me that insurance companies have to invest the money that comes in,
in order to be able to cover the claims that are going to come in.


  #39   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote: (clip) Pick out the ten tallest buildings. A high
percentage of them are insurance companies. Does that tell you anything?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It tells me that insurance companies have to invest the money that comes
in, in order to be able to cover the claims that are going to come in.


It tells me that there must be a pretty good profit in the insurance game.
Pardon me, trade.

Steve


  #40   Report Post  
Leo Lichtman
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"SteveB" wrote: It tells me that there must be a pretty good profit in the
insurance game. Pardon me, trade.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I knew what you were driving at. But do you see what I was getting at?
Insurance companies can't make a profit if they just pay the losses with the
money they take in. They have to invest the premiums at interest, so the
expected losses still leave them a profit.


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