About a year ago we (the family) built a digital TV antenna from
instructions on the internet. We put it in the window and it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing... So with the
money I save getting free TV reception I would like to put up an antenna
tower.

Problem is I don't want to climb a tower or anything like that, at least not
to the part on top trying to wrestle an antenna on a mast. So, with some
inspiration from the army rigging publications on Iggy's website, I thought
perhaps I can make a hinged base for the tower and then stand it up with
rigging techniques. Maybe if I use 4 guy wires instead of 3, 2 could be in
line with the hinge axis, the rear one would be set the calculated length to
tighten up when the tower is somewhat vertical, and the 4th guy wire would
be left long to pull the tower up. Perhaps something to level the load and
pull the tower up straight, trying to prevent bending loads.

Another possibility inspired by the rigging manual would be to construct a
long (maybe 50 feet), light duty (wooden?) boom, pull the boom up, steady
with guy wires, and use it like a crane with block and tackle to lift the
antenna tower. This would eliminate the need for the hinged tower as the
boom would be able to lift the tower and I could lower it onto the base.

An offshoot of this idea would be to set up a sturdy timber that could be
used with block and tackle, hoist, or similar that would be able to lift all
the load I would want in my Ford Ranger truck. A pole is tempting since one
pole with guy wires would be able to handle most of my machinery. An
alternate idea is to construct an A-Frame, possibly wood, that I can use
with a hoist to lift anything I would want in or out of my truck.

Looking for info on Homemade cranes I came across this one that looked neat
for what it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq4H1y9MOpQ

The rigging manual ideas can be adapted to rig some handy shop cranes for
lifting our heavy toys. Might even be able to make a pickup truck crane
with a wooden boom, a hoist to control the angle of the boom, and a winch to
lift. Harbor freight already sells something like this, It could probably
have more lifting capacity at the extended positions with a come-a-long
taking some of the load off the end. Could come in handy at auctions... I
guess Iggy can just trailer his forklift to the auctions, but for the rest
of us poor folk....

RogerN

On 1/23/2012 8:35 PM, RogerN wrote:
About a year ago we (the family) built a digital TV antenna from
instructions on the internet. We put it in the window and it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing... So with the
money I save getting free TV reception I would like to put up an antenna
tower.

Problem is I don't want to climb a tower or anything like that, at least not
to the part on top trying to wrestle an antenna on a mast. So, with some
inspiration from the army rigging publications on Iggy's website, I thought
perhaps I can make a hinged base for the tower and then stand it up with
rigging techniques. Maybe if I use 4 guy wires instead of 3, 2 could be in
line with the hinge axis, the rear one would be set the calculated length to
tighten up when the tower is somewhat vertical, and the 4th guy wire would
be left long to pull the tower up. Perhaps something to level the load and
pull the tower up straight, trying to prevent bending loads.

Another possibility inspired by the rigging manual would be to construct a
long (maybe 50 feet), light duty (wooden?) boom, pull the boom up, steady
with guy wires, and use it like a crane with block and tackle to lift the
antenna tower. This would eliminate the need for the hinged tower as the
boom would be able to lift the tower and I could lower it onto the base.

An offshoot of this idea would be to set up a sturdy timber that could be
used with block and tackle, hoist, or similar that would be able to lift all
the load I would want in my Ford Ranger truck. A pole is tempting since one
pole with guy wires would be able to handle most of my machinery. An
alternate idea is to construct an A-Frame, possibly wood, that I can use
with a hoist to lift anything I would want in or out of my truck.

Looking for info on Homemade cranes I came across this one that looked neat
for what it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq4H1y9MOpQ

The rigging manual ideas can be adapted to rig some handy shop cranes for
lifting our heavy toys. Might even be able to make a pickup truck crane
with a wooden boom, a hoist to control the angle of the boom, and a winch to
lift. Harbor freight already sells something like this, It could probably
have more lifting capacity at the extended positions with a come-a-long
taking some of the load off the end. Could come in handy at auctions... I
guess Iggy can just trailer his forklift to the auctions, but for the rest
of us poor folk....

RogerN


You are trying too hard to get the antenna up higher. What leads you to
believe the reception will be better with the antenna up there? Digital
and analog use the same UHF frequencies so why a "digital" antenna?

If you are sure you want higher, use a 40 or 50ft push up mast. each
section being 10 ft, only 1 foot is overlapping.

Set up the fully nested masts with guying at the 10 ft level, using 3
guy wires and good ground anchors. Adjust until the set is exactly
vertical. Then attach the antenna to the top of the top mast, and/or
attach the antenna rotator. Then attach three guy wires to each of the
remaining sections guy rings while the set is still nested. Use a step
ladder to reach the mast tops.

Then climb up the step ladder so you can pull up the innermost/top
section and lock in place with a cross pin in the matching hole of the
next larger section.

Then do the same with the next larger section, and then again with the
next one. If the very first section is properly guyed and is exactly
vertical, the whole thing will stand by itself.

Then begin attaching each of the guy wires to the same ground anchors,
or other anchors, if you wish. Adjust each set so the mast remains vertical.

In about an hour, you can have the whole thing all set up. Next time you
can do it an half the time.

Paul

Problem is I don't want to climb a tower or anything like that, at least not
to the part on top trying to wrestle an antenna on a mast. *So, with some
inspiration from the army rigging publications on Iggy's website, I thought
perhaps I can make a hinged base for the tower and then stand it up with
rigging techniques. *Maybe if I use 4 guy wires instead of 3, 2 could be in
line with the hinge axis, the rear one would be set the calculated length to
tighten up when the tower is somewhat vertical, and the 4th guy wire would
be left long to pull the tower up. *Perhaps something to level the load and
pull the tower up straight, trying to prevent bending loads.


Google for "falling gin pole"

On Jan 23, 6:35*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
About a year ago we (the family) built a digital TV antenna from
instructions on the internet. *We put it in the window and it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing... *So with the
money I save getting free TV reception I would like to put up an antenna
tower.

Problem is I don't want to climb a tower or anything like that, at least not
to the part on top trying to wrestle an antenna on a mast. *So, with some
inspiration from the army rigging publications on Iggy's website, I thought
perhaps I can make a hinged base for the tower and then stand it up with
rigging techniques. *Maybe if I use 4 guy wires instead of 3, 2 could be in
line with the hinge axis, the rear one would be set the calculated length to
tighten up when the tower is somewhat vertical, and the 4th guy wire would
be left long to pull the tower up. *Perhaps something to level the load and
pull the tower up straight, trying to prevent bending loads.

Another possibility inspired by the rigging manual would be to construct a
long (maybe 50 feet), light duty (wooden?) boom, pull the boom up, steady
with guy wires, and use it like a crane with block and tackle to lift the
antenna tower. *This would eliminate the need for the hinged tower as the
boom would be able to lift the tower and I could lower it onto the base.

An offshoot of this idea would be to set up a sturdy timber that could be
used with block and tackle, hoist, or similar that would be able to lift all
the load I would want in my Ford Ranger truck. *A pole is tempting since one
pole with guy wires would be able to handle most of my machinery. *An
alternate idea is to construct an A-Frame, possibly wood, that I can use
with a hoist to lift anything I would want in or out of my truck.

Looking for info on Homemade cranes I came across this one that looked neat
for what it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq4H1y9MOpQ

The rigging manual ideas can be adapted to rig some handy shop cranes for
lifting our heavy toys. *Might even be able to make a pickup truck crane
with a wooden boom, a hoist to control the angle of the boom, and a winch to
lift. *Harbor freight already sells something like this, It could probably
have more lifting capacity at the extended positions with a come-a-long
taking some of the load off the end. *Could come in handy at auctions.... *I
guess Iggy can just trailer his forklift to the auctions, but for the rest
of us poor folk....

RogerN

That's line of site transmission. I'm not sure more height will help
unless the antenna is in the shadow of something. A bigger antenna
would help. How about an array?
Karl

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:35:34 -0600, "RogerN"
wrote:

About a year ago we (the family) built a digital TV antenna from
instructions on the internet. We put it in the window and it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing... So with the
money I save getting free TV reception I would like to put up an antenna
tower.

Snipped

Try searching for "amateur radio antenna tower" and you'll get a lot
of hits for towers. see
http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Antennas/Towers/
or
http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Antennas/Towers/
for examples.

Even got some articles about building your own. With pictures even.


--
John B.

I'd suggest a street light pole. They are made of stainless and are light
for thier approximately thirty foot length. I hoisted mine up using the
standard rigging methods onto a concrete pad with four leveling bolts. No
reason not to have an antennea on there instead of the light. I may *pay*
(gulp) to have the bulb changed if it ever burns out.

Karl

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
About a year ago we (the family) built a digital TV antenna from
instructions on the internet. We put it in the window and it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing... So with the
money I save getting free TV reception I would like to put up an antenna
tower.

Problem is I don't want to climb a tower or anything like that, at least
not to the part on top trying to wrestle an antenna on a mast. So, with
some inspiration from the army rigging publications on Iggy's website, I
thought perhaps I can make a hinged base for the tower and then stand it
up with rigging techniques. ...
RogerN

My HDTV antenna evolved from hinging down to telescoping. When lowered the
rotator is at the ground and the antenna is within reach on the roof. The
antenna raises to 50 feet.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...51829689947138

The rotator is hinged to the triangular base that slides up and down in
simple guide rails. It no longer needs the hinge but I think the rotator
should be free to wobble and self-align if the mast isn't straight. A block
and tackle raises it.

The guy lines are visible only as the three faint light diagonals crossing
under the handrail below the round twinlead standoffs. They pass over
pulleys at the top and down the mast to tieoffs at the base, where I can
adjust and tighten them all at once. Each has a small weight attached under
the standoff that keeps the diagonal run from sagging and catching on
shingles when I lower the antenna.

jsw

Paul Drahn wrote:
On 1/23/2012 8:35 PM, RogerN wrote:
... we ... built a digital TV antenna ....
... it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing...

You are trying too hard to get the antenna up higher. What leads you to
believe the reception will be better with the antenna up there? Digital
and analog use the same UHF frequencies so why a "digital" antenna?

This is a good question, and you can check the calculations in advance
at "tvfool.com" Simply plug in your address and try out various antenna
heights to see if you can expect any improvement in your reception.

--
Jack Myers / Westminster, California, USA

microHelen: That quantity of facial pulchritude sufficient to launch one thousanth of a ship.

"Jack Myers" wrote in message ...

Paul Drahn wrote:
On 1/23/2012 8:35 PM, RogerN wrote:
... we ... built a digital TV antenna ....
... it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing...

You are trying too hard to get the antenna up higher. What leads you to
believe the reception will be better with the antenna up there? Digital
and analog use the same UHF frequencies so why a "digital" antenna?

This is a good question, and you can check the calculations in advance
at "tvfool.com" Simply plug in your address and try out various antenna
heights to see if you can expect any improvement in your reception.

--
Jack Myers / Westminster, California, USA

microHelen: That quantity of facial pulchritude sufficient to launch one
thousanth of a ship.

I have looked there before and knew I could get more stations & channels
with a better antenna setup, but I never compared at various heights. I
tried the tvfool.com signal calculations and found out I should be able to
get nearly as many stations with a 20 foot height as I could with 40 foot
height. Maybe if I can get an antenna around 20 feet up with a mast or
tower and a rotor I should be able to get 13 digital stations versus 14 for
a 40' height.

I can get the channels tvfool.com says I should at my current antenna
elevation (4 digital stations) but since my house has aluminum siding the
signal is mostly through the window.

RogerN

On 2012-01-25, RogerN wrote:
"Jack Myers" wrote in message ...

Paul Drahn wrote:
On 1/23/2012 8:35 PM, RogerN wrote:
... we ... built a digital TV antenna ....
... it work pretty
good, but the favorite channels are weak, fading/freezing...

You are trying too hard to get the antenna up higher. What leads you to
believe the reception will be better with the antenna up there? Digital
and analog use the same UHF frequencies so why a "digital" antenna?

This is a good question, and you can check the calculations in advance
at "tvfool.com" Simply plug in your address and try out various antenna
heights to see if you can expect any improvement in your reception.


I have looked there before and knew I could get more stations & channels
with a better antenna setup, but I never compared at various heights. I
tried the tvfool.com signal calculations and found out I should be able to
get nearly as many stations with a 20 foot height as I could with 40 foot
height. Maybe if I can get an antenna around 20 feet up with a mast or
tower and a rotor I should be able to get 13 digital stations versus 14 for
a 40' height.

I can get the channels tvfool.com says I should at my current antenna
elevation (4 digital stations) but since my house has aluminum siding the
signal is mostly through the window.

RogerN



Roger, sorry for a dumb question, but is it possible that you have a
local ordinance limiting the height of your antenna? You do not want
to find out after you erected the pole.

i

"Ignoramus1674" wrote in message
m...


Roger, sorry for a dumb question, but is it possible that you have a
local ordinance limiting the height of your antenna? You do not want
to find out after you erected the pole.

i

I may need to check, but I live outside city limits out in the country on
4-1/2 acres of land. There are tall poles all over my land from the power
company, they have a substation across the street and a main line running
across my property. I doubt if anyone would even notice if I put up a pole,
mast, or small tower. However I should check before I find out I should
have checked!

RogerN

On Jan 24, 9:59*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Ignoramus1674" *wrote in message
m...

Roger, sorry for a dumb question, but is it possible that you have a
local ordinance limiting the height of your antenna? You do not want
to find out after you erected the pole.

i

I may need to check, but I live outside city limits out in the country on
4-1/2 acres of land. *There are tall poles all over my land from the power
company, they have a substation across the street and a main line running
across my property. *I doubt if anyone would even notice if I put up a pole,
mast, or small tower. *However I should check before I find out I should
have checked!

RogerN

LOL..I guarantee you that people will notice...the wrong people.

Ask any ham radio operator.

I believe the digital standard was based on an antenna mounted 30 feet
above a two story house.

Tvfool.com's info is based on that.

Take some time looking at this group....good site even with its
infestation of conservatives.

alt.video.digital-tv

The standard used is a really troublesome one so be prepared for some
hair pulling to get a consistent quality performance.

The more elevation you have the better...living on a mountain with
line of sight helps.

Also verify what stations you will get and which of them are VHF/UHF.

TMT

I'm in a metro area and the local transmitters are on a mountain, so I
get by with a 20' mast with an amplified saucer on top for OTA
channels. My place has aluminum siding, too. I just made a T with
some treated 2x4s and bolted a roof tripod to that. It and the mast
tubing are from RS. It sits on a concrete slab that originally had a
storage hut on it and the mast has 3 ground anchors and 6 guy wires.
Has been up for about 10 years now in 100+ mph winds. Have to tighten
the turnbuckles occasionally, but no maintenance otherwise. if I need
to, I can tip the thing down across the top of the T, very easy to get
up and down. I used hooks on one end of the turnbuckles. Have the
satellite dish on it now, too. The wooden T just sits on the
concrete, it's not bolted down at all. Very handy when adjusting
rough satellite dish orientation, just tap the leg the desired
direction, then tighten up the turnbuckles.

Stan

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:59:47 -0600
"RogerN" wrote:

snip
I may need to check, but I live outside city limits out in the country on
4-1/2 acres of land. There are tall poles all over my land from the power
company, they have a substation across the street and a main line running
across my property. I doubt if anyone would even notice if I put up a pole,
mast, or small tower. However I should check before I find out I should
have checked!

A small tripod with a 10ft mast lag-bolted to your roof would easily
get you up 20ft. If your house is two story even a bit more...

Another option is to jam a pipe in the ground 2-3 feet, underneath your
eave line with a longer piece going up above it and then use the eave as
its brace. I did that years ago for a CB 4-element yagi antenna. It was
up 30 ft using the eave to brace it with just galvanized well pipe. Use
to turn the whole pipe from the ground to direct it this way and that.

Put a nice, amplified antenna with rotor on top of the mast. This kind
of antenna has an amplifier board mounted right to it. Then you can run
75 ohm coax on down without suffering any great loss.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Jan 25, 1:25*pm, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
I'm in a metro area and the local transmitters are on a mountain, so I
get by with a 20' mast with an amplified saucer on top for OTA
channels. *My place has aluminum siding, too. *I just made a T with
some treated 2x4s and bolted a roof tripod to that. *It and the mast
tubing are from RS. *It sits on a concrete slab that originally had a
storage hut on it and the mast has 3 ground anchors and 6 guy wires.
Has been up for about 10 years now in 100+ mph winds. *Have to tighten
the turnbuckles occasionally, but no maintenance otherwise. *if I need
to, I can tip the thing down across the top of the T, very easy to get
up and down. *I used hooks on one end of the turnbuckles. *Have the
satellite dish on it now, too. *The wooden T just sits on the
concrete, it's not bolted down at all. *Very handy when adjusting
rough satellite dish orientation, just tap the leg the desired
direction, then tighten up the turnbuckles.

Stan

Very good point about building for wind.

I have seen Santa Ana winds that have trashed many an antenna setup.

TMT

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
...
Put a nice, amplified antenna with rotor on top of the mast. This kind
of antenna has an amplifier board mounted right to it. Then you can run
75 ohm coax on down without suffering any great loss.
Leon Fisk

I put the antenna preamp inside the house at the cable entry, so I can
disconnect it for thunderstorms or if the power fails.

jsw

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 07:24:21 -0500
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

snip
I put the antenna preamp inside the house at the cable entry, so I can
disconnect it for thunderstorms or if the power fails.

Most likely just preaching to the choir...

75 ohm coax, like RG59 has quite a bit of loss per foot. RG6 has
less but still doesn't perform as well as good 300 ohm twin line.
However 300 ohm twin line is a pain to run with all the stand-offs and
foibles coming in contact with other conductive surfaces.

The beauty to putting the amp right on the antenna is that you haven't
encountered any significant signal loss yet. Once you have loss signal,
say getting from the antenna down to your amp inside, you can't
recreate it. You will just amplify the noise already introduced.

You can then use RG59 or similar coax to make your run without the loss
causing more trouble because you have already boosted it. RG59 coax is
a lot simpler to run not having to worry about stand-offs and such. The
power supply will be inside the house somewhere, most likely by the TV
and you can still unplug it during lightning storms. Been doing that for
~30 years now and haven't lost the amp on the antenna yet. We get our
share of lightning too...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:22:04 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 07:24:21 -0500
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

snip
I put the antenna preamp inside the house at the cable entry, so I can
disconnect it for thunderstorms or if the power fails.

Most likely just preaching to the choir...

75 ohm coax, like RG59 has quite a bit of loss per foot. RG6 has
less but still doesn't perform as well as good 300 ohm twin line.
However 300 ohm twin line is a pain to run with all the stand-offs and
foibles coming in contact with other conductive surfaces.

The beauty to putting the amp right on the antenna is that you haven't
encountered any significant signal loss yet. Once you have loss signal,
say getting from the antenna down to your amp inside, you can't
recreate it. You will just amplify the noise already introduced.

You can then use RG59 or similar coax to make your run without the loss
causing more trouble because you have already boosted it. RG59 coax is
a lot simpler to run not having to worry about stand-offs and such. The
power supply will be inside the house somewhere, most likely by the TV
and you can still unplug it during lightning storms. Been doing that for
~30 years now and haven't lost the amp on the antenna yet. We get our
share of lightning too...


Well stated!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 07:24:21 -0500
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

snip
I put the antenna preamp inside the house at the cable entry, so I can
disconnect it for thunderstorms or if the power fails.

Most likely just preaching to the choir...

75 ohm coax, like RG59 has quite a bit of loss per foot. RG6 has
less but still doesn't perform as well as good 300 ohm twin line.
However 300 ohm twin line is a pain to run with all the stand-offs and
foibles coming in contact with other conductive surfaces.

The beauty to putting the amp right on the antenna is that you haven't
encountered any significant signal loss yet. Once you have loss signal,
say getting from the antenna down to your amp inside, you can't
recreate it. You will just amplify the noise already introduced.
...
Leon Fisk

That's what the instructions tell you to do for maximum signal to noise
ratio. I have enough signal on all but one channel and needed only a little
boost, so I made the installation safer and more convenient to maintain.
Those overhanging trees in the photo shed branches.

jsw

"Paul Drahn" wrote in message ...

snip


You are trying too hard to get the antenna up higher. What leads you to
believe the reception will be better with the antenna up there?

Currently I get a few channels good, more channels not too good, and other
channels if I position the antenna a certain direction out the window. My
window won't handle much bigger antenna so I'm wanting to use a bigger
antenna outdoors. Where I plan to locate the antenna would position my
aluminum sided house between the antenna and the station unless I elevate
the antenna above the house. I plan to get a new roof this year so I don't
want to mess with a roof mount at this point.

Digital and analog use the same UHF frequencies so why a "digital"
antenna?

I thought I read something about digital channels on the upper VHF band and
UHF. If that's the case then eliminating lower VHF should eliminate the
need for the largest elements on the antenna.

If you are sure you want higher, use a 40 or 50ft push up mast. each
section being 10 ft, only 1 foot is overlapping.

Set up the fully nested masts with guying at the 10 ft level, using 3 guy
wires and good ground anchors. Adjust until the set is exactly vertical.
Then attach the antenna to the top of the top mast, and/or attach the
antenna rotator. Then attach three guy wires to each of the remaining
sections guy rings while the set is still nested. Use a step ladder to
reach the mast tops.

Then climb up the step ladder so you can pull up the innermost/top section
and lock in place with a cross pin in the matching hole of the next larger
section.

Then do the same with the next larger section, and then again with the next
one. If the very first section is properly guyed and is exactly vertical,
the whole thing will stand by itself.

Then begin attaching each of the guy wires to the same ground anchors, or
other anchors, if you wish. Adjust each set so the mast remains vertical.

In about an hour, you can have the whole thing all set up. Next time you
can do it an half the time.

Paul

I've pretty much settled for a lower height, maybe 20-25 feet or so. I'd
have to figure out the total price for the mast versus a short tower, sounds
like mast needs a lot of guy wire. I don't care for the idea of leaning a
step ladder against a pole and trying to climb it with a rotor and antenna,
sounds worse than climbing a tower unless I rented a man lift or bucket
truck. It would be a lot easier to rig to stand a 20ft mast or tower. I
guess my preference over all would be a free standing pole or tower and a
winch crank up carriage that raises the antenna, rotor, and signal amp to
the top. No climbing and can crank down for service!

RogerN

"mark" wrote in message
...

Google for "falling gin pole"

I saw some interesting youtube videos with failed tower raisings. :-) I
wouldn't take failures as a reason not to use a gin pole though, just to be
careful using a gin pole. Just like driving, even though there are many
wrecks I still drive a car, I just make extra effort to be careful but
realize an accident can still happen.

RogerN

wrote in message
...

snip
That's line of site transmission. I'm not sure more height will help
unless the antenna is in the shadow of something. A bigger antenna
would help. How about an array?
Karl

I want to get high enough to clear the house but I have huge Oak trees, 36"+
diameter at base and taller than any tower I want to mess with. I'm
thinking maybe best bet is under the heaviest part of the foliage but over
the house might be my best bet.

I have thought about an antenna array using directional antennas pointed in
the direction of the stations instead of a rotor. I'm not sure what I would
need in channel filters to pass only the channels I want from each antenna
and block noise from interfering with the signal from the other antennas.

RogerN