http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."

--
jiw

On 2011-06-16, James Waldby wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."


Emotions getting out of hand...

I hear some bad words...

i

On Jun 16, 5:38*pm, Ignoramus30422 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30422.invalid wrote:
On 2011-06-16, James Waldby wrote:
...

Not so dire, but I just learned not to side load the boom on a shop
crane . The bending moment transferred to the jack base and the outer
reservoir tube pulled loose on one side and leaked.

jsw

James Waldby wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."

--
jiw

As near as I can tell, the rigging is just fine, and the crane is plenty
big. It appears that someone miscalculated badly when determining the
amount of counterweight to install on the crane for the lift.

On 06/16/2011 02:35 PM, James Waldby wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."

Oopsie.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On 2011-06-16, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jun 16, 5:38?pm, Ignoramus30422 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30422.invalid wrote:
On 2011-06-16, James Waldby wrote:
...

Not so dire, but I just learned not to side load the boom on a shop
crane . The bending moment transferred to the jack base and the outer
reservoir tube pulled loose on one side and leaked.

I had my "shop crane" almost flip over when it was sdieways on an
inclined surface. I was barely able to muscle it back to a more stable
position.

i

On 2011-06-16, Pete C. wrote:

James Waldby wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."


As near as I can tell, the rigging is just fine, and the crane is plenty
big. It appears that someone miscalculated badly when determining the
amount of counterweight to install on the crane for the lift.

I am wondering if those cranes could have some kind of an automatic
safety system that prevents tipping.

i

Ignoramus30422 wrote:

On 2011-06-16, Pete C. wrote:

James Waldby wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."


As near as I can tell, the rigging is just fine, and the crane is plenty
big. It appears that someone miscalculated badly when determining the
amount of counterweight to install on the crane for the lift.

I am wondering if those cranes could have some kind of an automatic
safety system that prevents tipping.

They have computers and alarms, but it's up to the operator to give the
computer the correct information and pay attention to what it's saying.

Ignoramus30422 wrote:

On 2011-06-16, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jun 16, 5:38?pm, Ignoramus30422 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30422.invalid wrote:
On 2011-06-16, James Waldby wrote:
...

Not so dire, but I just learned not to side load the boom on a shop
crane . The bending moment transferred to the jack base and the outer
reservoir tube pulled loose on one side and leaked.

I had my "shop crane" almost flip over when it was sdieways on an
inclined surface. I was barely able to muscle it back to a more stable
position.

i

They lack much side stability, and frequently people make the mistake of
having a swinging load. What you need to do is keep a couple lengths of
2x4 to rest across the shop crane legs and lower the load onto to
prevent it from swinging to the side on a slope. You can also use a
cargo strap or two to stabilize the load on a shop crane.

On 2011-06-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus30422 wrote:

On 2011-06-16, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jun 16, 5:38?pm, Ignoramus30422 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30422.invalid wrote:
On 2011-06-16, James Waldby wrote:
...

Not so dire, but I just learned not to side load the boom on a shop
crane . The bending moment transferred to the jack base and the outer
reservoir tube pulled loose on one side and leaked.

I had my "shop crane" almost flip over when it was sdieways on an
inclined surface. I was barely able to muscle it back to a more stable
position.

i

They lack much side stability, and frequently people make the mistake of
having a swinging load. What you need to do is keep a couple lengths of
2x4 to rest across the shop crane legs and lower the load onto to
prevent it from swinging to the side on a slope. You can also use a
cargo strap or two to stabilize the load on a shop crane.

Yep, this is what I do now.

i

"Edward A. Falk" wrote:

In article .com,
Pete C. wrote:

They have computers and alarms, but it's up to the operator to give the
computer the correct information and pay attention to what it's saying.

Seems to me that you could put weight sensors on all the outriggers. When
any outrigger weight drops below a certain threshold, an out-of-balance
alarm can be presented to the operator, and if the weight continues to
approach zero, the system can lock up, preventing the load from being
extended any further.

And a bad sensor could cause a worse condition. The human has to have
ultimate control, with the machine just providing warnings for the human
to validate.

Pete C. wrote:
"Edward A. Falk" wrote:
In article .com,
Pete C. wrote:
They have computers and alarms, but it's up to the operator to give the
computer the correct information and pay attention to what it's saying.
Seems to me that you could put weight sensors on all the outriggers. When
any outrigger weight drops below a certain threshold, an out-of-balance
alarm can be presented to the operator, and if the weight continues to
approach zero, the system can lock up, preventing the load from being
extended any further.

And a bad sensor could cause a worse condition. The human has to have
ultimate control, with the machine just providing warnings for the human
to validate.

AND

It's more than weight - it's moment.

Which is, I'm sure, what you meant...


--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~sv_temptress

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:16:21 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


"Edward A. Falk" wrote:

In article .com,
Pete C. wrote:

They have computers and alarms, but it's up to the operator to give the
computer the correct information and pay attention to what it's saying.

Seems to me that you could put weight sensors on all the outriggers. When
any outrigger weight drops below a certain threshold, an out-of-balance
alarm can be presented to the operator, and if the weight continues to
approach zero, the system can lock up, preventing the load from being
extended any further.

And a bad sensor could cause a worse condition. The human has to have
ultimate control, with the machine just providing warnings for the human
to validate.

Had the operator been watching the guages (digital or analog), he
would have known something was wrong before it happened. Either the
guy was new (no sense of his machinery yet) or reckless, or the crane
malfunctioned. He's no longer wreckless. I mean, he tipped that thing
all the way up onto its training wheels!

Did you hear the thrum of the crane change midway, just before the
cussfest?

--
Happiness is when what you think, what
you say, and what you do are in harmony.
-- Mahatma Gandhi

On Jun 16, 11:52*am, "Pete C." wrote:
James Waldby wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Po....

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." *"...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."

--
jiw

As near as I can tell, the rigging is just fine, and the crane is plenty
big. It appears that someone miscalculated badly when determining the
amount of counterweight to install on the crane for the lift.

The thing I saw said it was a computer malfunction. Don't remember
where I saw it.
Karl

"James Waldby" wrote in message
...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."

--
jiw

It is a simple case of the operator booming out past the limits of the
machine. He got past the tipping point.

Steve

"Ignoramus30422" wrote

I am wondering if those cranes could have some kind of an automatic
safety system that prevents tipping.

i

They do. It's a chart that tells them how much they can lift with the boom
within any circle and upward angle. Imagine it this way: Put your elbow on
a table. The closer your forearm is to vertical, the stronger you are.
When your forearm heads toward the table, you get weaker. Looking at the
angle of the boom in relationship to horizontal, it is obvious he was down
too far. The final shot of the crane pulled down and laying in a straight
line with the load proves it all. Unfortunately, one does not have to know
how to run a crane to run a crane. And there are all sorts of valuable
information right there in the cab, mainly a chart of loads within a circle
of boom angles, and an actual swinging boom indicator to tell the operator
what angle he's at. Between the two, any operator will know when he is
reaching the parameters of the machine.

Steve

wrote

The thing I saw said it was a computer malfunction. Don't remember
where I saw it.
Karl

What I saw was operator error, and I saw it in the video.

Steve, OSHA certified crane operator, land cranes and offshore drilling
platforms

On 2011-06-17, Steve B wrote:

wrote

The thing I saw said it was a computer malfunction. Don't remember
where I saw it.
Karl

What I saw was operator error, and I saw it in the video.

I agree.

i

Steve, OSHA certified crane operator, land cranes and offshore drilling
platforms

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:35:14 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."


Over all, not too bad, no one hurt. Only crushed the garage roof,
crane might have no damage at all. Pool might be history though.....

It did hit the chimney, not sure how.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:35:14 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."



Part 2..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4v9N...eature=related

bigger crane to remove smaller crane from house.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:02:35 -0400, Randy333
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:35:14 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."



Part 2..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4v9N...eature=related

bigger crane to remove smaller crane from house.

One of my favorites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6w8R--CQ3Q

--
Happiness is when what you think, what
you say, and what you do are in harmony.
-- Mahatma Gandhi

"Randy333" wrote

Part 2..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4v9N...eature=related

bigger crane to remove smaller crane from house.

Using a protractor, I come up with a boom angle of around 35 degrees. And
it looks like the boom is pretty much fully extended. I wonder how
experienced the operator and supervisor were. That's a rookie mistake.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide

This looks to be in the Grove TMS900E family. Hard to get a number from the
youtube, but definitely a Grove. Load charts available for anyone who cares
to peruse them. Too fine print for me, and can't find a simple boom angle
chart.

www.manitowoccranes.com

steve

http://www.manitowoccranes.com/MCG_G...EN/TMS900E.asp

url for operating manuals

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
This looks to be in the Grove TMS900E family. Hard to get a number from
the youtube, but definitely a Grove. Load charts available for anyone who
cares to peruse them. Too fine print for me, and can't find a simple boom
angle chart.

www.manitowoccranes.com

steve

Upon closer readings, I can't find any load charts for 35 degrees. The
lowest is 45 degrees. Around page 21. Loads at 45 degrees and full
extension max out in the 1200# range, if I'm reading it right.

Steve

On Jun 16, 5:35*pm, James Waldby wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Po...

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." *"...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses." *

--
jiw

Boomed out too far and gravity didn't like him enough to take the day
off.

On Jun 17, 11:42*am, beecrofter wrote:
...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Po....
...

I just got Broadband2Go wireless Internet to supplement $7/month
dialup and now can watch these posted videos. So far its speed
averages 37 KBPS from my house with 1-2 bars, with bursts possibly
over 100 KBPS.

If you buy the modem from Walmart their prepaid $20 top-ups get you 1
GB of data and a month to use it, from Virgin Mobile it's 500MB. I
think I could skip a month or two and effectively have fast service
for large software updates for $7-$10 a month.

Has anyone else tried it?

jsw

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:54:32 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 17, 11:42*am, beecrofter wrote:
...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Po...
...

I just got Broadband2Go wireless Internet to supplement $7/month
dialup and now can watch these posted videos. So far its speed
averages 37 KBPS from my house with 1-2 bars, with bursts possibly
over 100 KBPS.

If you buy the modem from Walmart their prepaid $20 top-ups get you 1
GB of data and a month to use it, from Virgin Mobile it's 500MB. I
think I could skip a month or two and effectively have fast service
for large software updates for $7-$10 a month.

Has anyone else tried it?

jsw

No...never heard of it.

Im using a "tether" connection via my cell phone to my computer and
"PdaNet" software.

Works quite well. Sprint raised our bills $10 to cover "expanded
internet use" for all Sprint customers..so after that..I figured I was
well within my rights to tether. So I did.

My only internet costs is the $4.95 a month for GigaNews

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:54:32 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 17, 11:42 am, beecrofter wrote:
...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Po...
...

I just got Broadband2Go wireless Internet to supplement $7/month
dialup and now can watch these posted videos. So far its speed
averages 37 KBPS from my house with 1-2 bars, with bursts possibly
over 100 KBPS.

If you buy the modem from Walmart their prepaid $20 top-ups get you 1
GB of data and a month to use it, from Virgin Mobile it's 500MB. I
think I could skip a month or two and effectively have fast service
for large software updates for $7-$10 a month.

Has anyone else tried it?

jsw

No...never heard of it.

Im using a "tether" connection via my cell phone to my computer and
"PdaNet" software.

Works quite well. Sprint raised our bills $10 to cover "expanded
internet use" for all Sprint customers..so after that..I figured I was
well within my rights to tether. So I did.

My only internet costs is the $4.95 a month for GigaNews

The Virgin Mobile Broadband2Go works quite well. I have it on their
unlimited plan and I've been on VPN on my work laptop while riding in a
van at 75mph from Dallas to Houston with only two brief connection drops
along the way and very good performance. I've also used it at home on
one of the rare times my cable modem was out for an hour or so.

"Steve B" on Fri, 17 Jun 2011 02:08:53
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

"James Waldby" wrote in message
...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8575579/Pool-delivery-goes-wrong-as-crane-lands-on-house.html?utm_source=tmg&utm_medium=TD_8575579&ut m_campaign=video1606pm

"Taking delivery of a brand new outdoor swimming pool, a builder films
as a crane operator attempts to hoist the ready-made structure over the
new owner's house and into the garden." "...the man behind the lens
can be heard to exclaim "watch out for the chimney" as the delicate
operation progresses."

--
jiw

It is a simple case of the operator booming out past the limits of the
machine. He got past the tipping point.

OTOH, the owners is not livid, the damage is "minimal", and he
seems to be accepting that it was an electrical glitch which over
extended it.
That said, I'm sure the company's insurance agent is not going to
be happy writing the check.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Randy333" wrote

Part 2..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4v9N...eature=related

bigger crane to remove smaller crane from house.

Using a protractor, I come up with a boom angle of around 35 degrees. And
it looks like the boom is pretty much fully extended. I wonder how
experienced the operator and supervisor were. That's a rookie mistake.

There was a distinct SNAP! sound, followed hy the Holy ****! What was
the snap sound?

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:42:25 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Randy333" wrote

Part 2..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4v9N...eature=related

bigger crane to remove smaller crane from house.

Using a protractor, I come up with a boom angle of around 35 degrees. And
it looks like the boom is pretty much fully extended. I wonder how
experienced the operator and supervisor were. That's a rookie mistake.

There was a distinct SNAP! sound, followed hy the Holy ****! What was
the snap sound?

These are much more fun than cranes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psc3cI68Gy8

--
Happiness is when what you think, what
you say, and what you do are in harmony.
-- Mahatma Gandhi

"Larry Jaques" wrote

These are much more fun than cranes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psc3cI68Gy8

Centrifugal force is underestimated.

Eh?

Steve

On Jun 16, 11:18*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
wrote

The thing I saw said it was a computer malfunction. Don't remember
where I saw it.
Karl

What I saw was operator error, and I saw it in the video.

Steve, OSHA certified crane operator, land cranes and offshore drilling
platforms

Well that's what it looked like to me but I've never operated a crane.
Knowing you from this newsgroup I believe you over what they told the
owner. Aren't these things investigated to see who screwed up?
Found it:
"The crane company, Truck Crane Service, told the homeowner, who did
not want to be interviewed, that a computer error is to blame for the
mishap."
Here's the link:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aed_1...913&comments=1
Karl

wrote in message
...
On Jun 16, 11:18 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
wrote

The thing I saw said it was a computer malfunction. Don't remember
where I saw it.
Karl

What I saw was operator error, and I saw it in the video.

Steve, OSHA certified crane operator, land cranes and offshore drilling
platforms

Well that's what it looked like to me but I've never operated a crane.
Knowing you from this newsgroup I believe you over what they told the
owner. Aren't these things investigated to see who screwed up?
Found it:
"The crane company, Truck Crane Service, told the homeowner, who did
not want to be interviewed, that a computer error is to blame for the
mishap."
Here's the link:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aed_1...913&comments=1
Karl

Yeah, and almost every fire is attributed to a weldor.

I ran cranes for quite a while. I have run a crane very similar to this
one, a Grove 12.5 ton. From what I know, what I can see, what I measured,
and my real life experiences, the crane was boomed down too far, and the
boom was extended too far, and the load was too heavy. If those things had
been correct, we wouldn't be talking about it right now. The boom could
have been raised, or the boom extended in, and it wouldn't have happened.
But they wouldn't have been able to place the load where necessary.

A good crane operator knows the weight of the object he is lifting, and the
furthest he can boom down and safely pick up that object. Most cranes do
not have any electronics to tell the operator that. Just a plate that's
usually not there, dirty, or abraded to the point it can't be read. In
this case, that didn't happen, or they would have known they were operating
out of parameters. When they say a "computer error", they may have been
talking about a faulty weight reading when test lifting the object. Other
than that, computers have little to do with the actual controlling of the
crane, except sensing for out of parameter input and coordinating movements
produced by using more than one control at a time.

The comment of "some sound" has not been expounded upon a lot. Perhaps
there was a jolt in the cable, even where it rolls over other coils on the
drum that gave the load enough moment to tip the balance for the slightest
time. The crane DID tip over slowly, indicating it was a very small error
on the side of the load, enough to tip the machine. Perhaps it hit
something enough to swing the load. I do not think all the evidence is in
yet, or hasn't been published.

You must also remember that these are reports by layman. Some sound.
Computer error. A loose frammit. That damned weldor.

I'd like to hear from a qualified person for the final evaluation. What we
have is the crane owner explaining to the homeowner that it was because of a
computer error. Too bad there wasn't a weldor there to blame it on. Do you
think they are going to say, "I'm sorry. We screwed up. We were not set up
correctly, were boomed down too far, and had the boom extended too far for
the weight of the load." Or, "We didn't get the weight of the load, and
didn't read the operating manual for load limits or look at the boom chart."

Can you say lawsuit?

What do you think the crane company is going to tell the homeowner? I
believe the insurance company will have some far more probing and exact
questions, and are not just going to sign off and pay off with a two word
explanation from the crane's owner.

Three measurements are needed, which can then be sent to the manufacturers
of the crane for evaluation. Weight of load (known), angle of boom relative
to level (known from the picture), and extension of boom (easily attainable
by simple tape measure). The math would be undeniable.

I believe that's what the insurance company is going to go by. A car crash
can be witnessed by four people on four different corners. Each will tell a
slightly different story due to their different angles of observation. And
some will include details that are not relevent to calculating the answer.
All we have here is witnesses who were so frightened, they were "shaking in
his boots", and were actually in an altered state of consciousness. And
some, obviously, were not even qualified enough to correctly evaluate the
accident, yet the press jumps on their testimony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered..._consciousness

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.heartsurgerysurvivalguide.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide

Great post Steve.

i
On 2011-06-18, Steve B wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Jun 16, 11:18 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
wrote

The thing I saw said it was a computer malfunction. Don't remember
where I saw it.
Karl

What I saw was operator error, and I saw it in the video.

Steve, OSHA certified crane operator, land cranes and offshore drilling
platforms

Well that's what it looked like to me but I've never operated a crane.
Knowing you from this newsgroup I believe you over what they told the
owner. Aren't these things investigated to see who screwed up?
Found it:
"The crane company, Truck Crane Service, told the homeowner, who did
not want to be interviewed, that a computer error is to blame for the
mishap."
Here's the link:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aed_1...913&comments=1
Karl

Yeah, and almost every fire is attributed to a weldor.

I ran cranes for quite a while. I have run a crane very similar to this
one, a Grove 12.5 ton. From what I know, what I can see, what I measured,
and my real life experiences, the crane was boomed down too far, and the
boom was extended too far, and the load was too heavy. If those things had
been correct, we wouldn't be talking about it right now. The boom could
have been raised, or the boom extended in, and it wouldn't have happened.
But they wouldn't have been able to place the load where necessary.

A good crane operator knows the weight of the object he is lifting, and the
furthest he can boom down and safely pick up that object. Most cranes do
not have any electronics to tell the operator that. Just a plate that's
usually not there, dirty, or abraded to the point it can't be read. In
this case, that didn't happen, or they would have known they were operating
out of parameters. When they say a "computer error", they may have been
talking about a faulty weight reading when test lifting the object. Other
than that, computers have little to do with the actual controlling of the
crane, except sensing for out of parameter input and coordinating movements
produced by using more than one control at a time.

The comment of "some sound" has not been expounded upon a lot. Perhaps
there was a jolt in the cable, even where it rolls over other coils on the
drum that gave the load enough moment to tip the balance for the slightest
time. The crane DID tip over slowly, indicating it was a very small error
on the side of the load, enough to tip the machine. Perhaps it hit
something enough to swing the load. I do not think all the evidence is in
yet, or hasn't been published.

You must also remember that these are reports by layman. Some sound.
Computer error. A loose frammit. That damned weldor.

I'd like to hear from a qualified person for the final evaluation. What we
have is the crane owner explaining to the homeowner that it was because of a
computer error. Too bad there wasn't a weldor there to blame it on. Do you
think they are going to say, "I'm sorry. We screwed up. We were not set up
correctly, were boomed down too far, and had the boom extended too far for
the weight of the load." Or, "We didn't get the weight of the load, and
didn't read the operating manual for load limits or look at the boom chart."

Can you say lawsuit?

What do you think the crane company is going to tell the homeowner? I
believe the insurance company will have some far more probing and exact
questions, and are not just going to sign off and pay off with a two word
explanation from the crane's owner.

Three measurements are needed, which can then be sent to the manufacturers
of the crane for evaluation. Weight of load (known), angle of boom relative
to level (known from the picture), and extension of boom (easily attainable
by simple tape measure). The math would be undeniable.

I believe that's what the insurance company is going to go by. A car crash
can be witnessed by four people on four different corners. Each will tell a
slightly different story due to their different angles of observation. And
some will include details that are not relevent to calculating the answer.
All we have here is witnesses who were so frightened, they were "shaking in
his boots", and were actually in an altered state of consciousness. And
some, obviously, were not even qualified enough to correctly evaluate the
accident, yet the press jumps on their testimony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered..._consciousness

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.heartsurgerysurvivalguide.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:11:19 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You must also remember that these are reports by layman. Some sound.
Computer error. A loose frammit. That damned weldor.

"Pilot error"


--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:11:19 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You must also remember that these are reports by layman. Some sound.
Computer error. A loose frammit. That damned weldor.

"Pilot error"


Exactly. Hold your phone calls folks. We have a winner!

Steve

"Ignoramus6708" wrote in message
...
Great post Steve.

i

TY. I have seen a lot of heavy stuff go into the Gulf of Mexico to at least
be a qualified witness. I once saw an operator lose a Hydril, and 40' of
boom off the crane from picking up the Hydril off a boat, and not being
boomed up enough. He picked up the load, the boat got the hell out of the
way, he was coming up on it, the crane's diesel engine coughed at the load,
and gravity prevailed. The Hydril, the boom, and all the line went in the
drink. Lucky the cab was not torn loose.

If you want to define forlorn, just see a crane operator sitting in his cab
with no boom on his crane................... priceless.

This is a Hydril:

http://hydrilpressurecontrol.com/pre...ol/BOP/BOP.php

The picture tells the story. Compare this weight to that of a fiberglass
swimming pool................ Ten feet in diameter of solid steel. And
there's some you can't see. But even a lowly fiberglass swimming pool
prevailed when the laws of physics and leverage were applied.

Steve

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 19:59:57 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Ignoramus6708" wrote in message
m...
Great post Steve.

i

TY. I have seen a lot of heavy stuff go into the Gulf of Mexico to at least
be a qualified witness. I once saw an operator lose a Hydril, and 40' of
boom off the crane from picking up the Hydril off a boat, and not being
boomed up enough. He picked up the load, the boat got the hell out of the
way, he was coming up on it, the crane's diesel engine coughed at the load,
and gravity prevailed. The Hydril, the boom, and all the line went in the
drink. Lucky the cab was not torn loose.

If you want to define forlorn, just see a crane operator sitting in his cab
with no boom on his crane................... priceless.

This is a Hydril:

http://hydrilpressurecontrol.com/pre...ol/BOP/BOP.php

The picture tells the story. Compare this weight to that of a fiberglass
swimming pool................ Ten feet in diameter of solid steel. And
there's some you can't see. But even a lowly fiberglass swimming pool
prevailed when the laws of physics and leverage were applied.

Steve

Ive got a Hydril ball cap in my cap rack G

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.