Just acquired an Alba4S shaper 18" stroke .
I'm looking for armstrong type tool holders ,preferably the T series
with no back rake .
A universal type would also be nice to have .
The shank size I need is 5/8 thicknes.
Ive looked on Ebay and thos on there are either too large in the shank
or are for planers.

Knowing some of you blokes on this forum are masters at finding stuff ,I
thought I would put out the word.

I also need a shaper vice , with jaws around 9" wide , but the cost of
shipping from the US would be deadly me thinks.
--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:58:29 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

Just acquired an Alba4S shaper 18" stroke .
I'm looking for armstrong type tool holders ,preferably the T series
with no back rake .
A universal type would also be nice to have .
The shank size I need is 5/8 thicknes.
Ive looked on Ebay and thos on there are either too large in the shank
or are for planers.

Knowing some of you blokes on this forum are masters at finding stuff ,I
thought I would put out the word.

I also need a shaper vice , with jaws around 9" wide , but the cost of
shipping from the US would be deadly me thinks.

Ill check stock, but you can make a tool holder..well..three of them
easily enough, to hold a decent HSS 1/2" or 3/8"

Right, center and Left. Make 3 the same, then heat with a torch and
with a long bar..bend em to the right and to the left.

Ive got a vise to fit..but Im afraid it would be deadly indeed shipping
it to Oz.

Thats a very nice shaper btw. Got any photos?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:58:29 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

Just acquired an Alba4S shaper 18" stroke .
I'm looking for armstrong type tool holders ,preferably the T series
with no back rake .
Planer toolholders and zero-rake lathe toolholders work fine in
shapers. So does an HSS tool bit to fit the toolpost!

Regards,
Bob

On 1/17/2012 5:48 AM, Bob wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:58:29 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

Just acquired an Alba4S shaper 18" stroke .
I'm looking for armstrong type tool holders ,preferably the T series
with no back rake .
Planer toolholders and zero-rake lathe toolholders work fine in
shapers. So does an HSS tool bit to fit the toolpost!

Regards,
Bob

I'm no stranger to the operation of shapers and planers , used a few
over the years as a tool & die maker.

The planer tool holders I've found ( on Ebay ) are way to big to fit the
tool post slot .

Tool post slot is .050" under 3/4" and I'm not sure if its agood idea to
open the slot, might weaken the latern , I could make a new latern a
with a 3/4" slot I guess.
I have some 3/4" sq HSS bits , I guess I could send them out and get
them surface ground to fit.

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:47:30 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:


Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

While zero rake is normal..they will run nicely with a bit of positive
rake, as long as you grind some relief. Hell..they will run with
negative relief if the machine is stout enough.


Gunner, with a 8" Logan and many hours on a 36" Cinci



One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.


Would it not be OK to just grind the toolbit, taking into account the
built in angle of a typical lathe tool holder, so the end result is the
same as with a zero rake type?

As an aside, but slightly related (because it has zero rake): I was
having trouble making a slot, until I tried a lathe's parting tool
holder, which also had a gooseneck feature. It changed from making the
shaping job a nasty ripply finish, to cutting smoothly as silk.

Shaper tyro.

On 1/17/2012 9:54 PM, Jordan wrote:
On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.


Would it not be OK to just grind the toolbit, taking into account the
built in angle of a typical lathe tool holder, so the end result is the
same as with a zero rake type?

As an aside, but slightly related (because it has zero rake): I was
having trouble making a slot, until I tried a lathe's parting tool
holder, which also had a gooseneck feature. It changed from making the
shaping job a nasty ripply finish, to cutting smoothly as silk.

Shaper tyro.


Not a problem to grind the tool , ,it's just me , I just like to have
the tools to suit the machine . Toolaholic .

I have read that the gooseneck tool holders are good for preventing
chatter .
Also it depends on whether the cutting edge is in front of the clapper
pivot point or behind .
The Armstong universal tool holder can be set either way.
It takes some experimenting to see which give better results .
Haven't got to the slotting tools yet.
The shaper is still in bits and it will be a while before it's actually
running , Im being proactive and looking for bits so when it is ready to
run I have the stuff at the ready.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On 2012-01-17, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:
On 1/17/2012 5:48 AM, Bob wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:58:29 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

Just acquired an Alba4S shaper 18" stroke .
I'm looking for armstrong type tool holders ,preferably the T series
with no back rake .
Planer toolholders and zero-rake lathe toolholders work fine in
shapers. So does an HSS tool bit to fit the toolpost!

[ ... ]

I'm no stranger to the operation of shapers and planers , used a few
over the years as a tool & die maker.

Never had the pleasure of using (or even seeing in operation) a
planer -- but I have a 7" shaper which I love to use for various tasks.

[ ... ]

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

You'll also find the zero rake holders for lathes -- for holding
the brazed carbide insert turning tools. So if you include lathe tool
holders in your search, that might do what you need.

Good luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jan 17, 6:01*am, "Kevin(Bluey)" wrote:
On 1/17/2012 9:54 PM, Jordan wrote:





On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

Would it not be OK to just grind the toolbit, taking into account the
built in angle of a typical lathe tool holder, so the end result is the
same as with a zero rake type?

As an aside, but slightly related (because it has zero rake): I was
having trouble making a slot, until I tried a lathe's parting tool
holder, which also had a gooseneck feature. It changed from making the
shaping job a nasty ripply finish, to cutting smoothly as silk.

Shaper tyro.

Not a problem to grind the tool , ,it's just me , I just like to have
the tools to suit the machine . Toolaholic .

I have read that the gooseneck tool holders are good for preventing
chatter .
Also it depends on whether the cutting edge is in front of the clapper
pivot point *or behind .
The Armstong universal tool holder can be set either way.
It takes some experimenting to see which give better results .
Haven't got to the slotting tools yet.
The shaper is still in bits and it will be a while before it's actually
running , Im being proactive and looking for bits so when it is ready to
run I have the stuff at the ready.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I had problems with chatter on the 7" AAMCO, so I took the advice in a
Brit shaper text and built one that put the tool bit behind the
clapper pivot plane. It had come with Armstrong-style tool holders,
just lathe lantern-style ones. No more problems after I made that,
just a nice "shoop-shoop" when cutting. Williams used to have a tool
shaper holder cataloged that would let the user put the bit at any
angle. I kind of copied that when I couldn't find the real deal on
the shelf for less than $200. Just used a rectangular section of hot-
rolled strip for the shank that the tool post held and made up a
sleeve that got welded on the end. Back end of the sleeve was behind
the clapper pivot. I took a fine thread 5/8" bolt, turned the head
round and drilled and filed a square hole in it next to the head to
fit a 1/4" bit. A nut and washer made up the rest. Filing the hole
took the longest time on the project, finished it all in an afternoon.

And a shaper without a vise is kind of like a car without tires, very
limited. Hope the shaper was bought cheap. I suppose a guy could make
one up from a regular mill vise with some sort of adapter plate and
shank for the pivot, probably wouldn't be as rigid as the real deal.

Stan

On 1/19/2012 5:00 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Jan 17, 6:01 am, wrote:
On 1/17/2012 9:54 PM, Jordan wrote:





On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

Would it not be OK to just grind the toolbit, taking into account the
built in angle of a typical lathe tool holder, so the end result is the
same as with a zero rake type?

As an aside, but slightly related (because it has zero rake): I was
having trouble making a slot, until I tried a lathe's parting tool
holder, which also had a gooseneck feature. It changed from making the
shaping job a nasty ripply finish, to cutting smoothly as silk.

Shaper tyro.

Not a problem to grind the tool , ,it's just me , I just like to have
the tools to suit the machine . Toolaholic .

I have read that the gooseneck tool holders are good for preventing
chatter .
Also it depends on whether the cutting edge is in front of the clapper
pivot point or behind .
The Armstong universal tool holder can be set either way.
It takes some experimenting to see which give better results .
Haven't got to the slotting tools yet.
The shaper is still in bits and it will be a while before it's actually
running , Im being proactive and looking for bits so when it is ready to
run I have the stuff at the ready.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I had problems with chatter on the 7" AAMCO, so I took the advice in a
Brit shaper text and built one that put the tool bit behind the
clapper pivot plane. It had come with Armstrong-style tool holders,
just lathe lantern-style ones. No more problems after I made that,
just a nice "shoop-shoop" when cutting. Williams used to have a tool
shaper holder cataloged that would let the user put the bit at any
angle. I kind of copied that when I couldn't find the real deal on
the shelf for less than $200. Just used a rectangular section of hot-
rolled strip for the shank that the tool post held and made up a
sleeve that got welded on the end. Back end of the sleeve was behind
the clapper pivot. I took a fine thread 5/8" bolt, turned the head
round and drilled and filed a square hole in it next to the head to
fit a 1/4" bit. A nut and washer made up the rest. Filing the hole
took the longest time on the project, finished it all in an afternoon.

And a shaper without a vise is kind of like a car without tires, very
limited. Hope the shaper was bought cheap. I suppose a guy could make
one up from a regular mill vise with some sort of adapter plate and
shank for the pivot, probably wouldn't be as rigid as the real deal.

Stan

The shaper came very cheap ,I had it given to me $0 cost .
I will find a vice eventually they are around , it's just finding one .
There is one on AU Ebay right now for a very low price ,but
unfortunately is badly butchered ,has been used for a drill vice and has
some very bad over run holes and may not beworth the freight cost just
to find out its not worth repair.It's listed as a big mill vice.
Part of the problem is most people don't know the difference between a
normal machine vice and the shaper vice.

The same type of vice that the Elliot or Invicta shaper came with 9"
long jaws and 10" opening would be prerfect for the 18" Alba.
Alba is the ancestor to the Invicta and the later Elliot.The vices would
not have changed much between the models at all.

A vice is not always needed on a shaper in fact using stops and side
bearing clamps a lot of work can be done by just clamping to the table
or using an angle plate.
A vice is very handy just the same.

Gunner of this forum says he has one , I sent him an e-mail but he
hasn't got back to me as yet .
Considering thier rareity here it may be worth the cost of shipping to
get one from the US.
Some new ones are avilable from India but I'm not sure of the quality.

On Practical Machinist forum there is a post regarding making the
Armstrong/Williams universal tool holder of which you speak
Also a member of the Aussie woodwork forums (metal working section) has
just completed one for his Swedish shaper.
I will build one when I get the shaper running .

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:24:45 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/19/2012 5:00 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Jan 17, 6:01 am, wrote:
On 1/17/2012 9:54 PM, Jordan wrote:





On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

Would it not be OK to just grind the toolbit, taking into account the
built in angle of a typical lathe tool holder, so the end result is the
same as with a zero rake type?

As an aside, but slightly related (because it has zero rake): I was
having trouble making a slot, until I tried a lathe's parting tool
holder, which also had a gooseneck feature. It changed from making the
shaping job a nasty ripply finish, to cutting smoothly as silk.

Shaper tyro.

Not a problem to grind the tool , ,it's just me , I just like to have
the tools to suit the machine . Toolaholic .

I have read that the gooseneck tool holders are good for preventing
chatter .
Also it depends on whether the cutting edge is in front of the clapper
pivot point or behind .
The Armstong universal tool holder can be set either way.
It takes some experimenting to see which give better results .
Haven't got to the slotting tools yet.
The shaper is still in bits and it will be a while before it's actually
running , Im being proactive and looking for bits so when it is ready to
run I have the stuff at the ready.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I had problems with chatter on the 7" AAMCO, so I took the advice in a
Brit shaper text and built one that put the tool bit behind the
clapper pivot plane. It had come with Armstrong-style tool holders,
just lathe lantern-style ones. No more problems after I made that,
just a nice "shoop-shoop" when cutting. Williams used to have a tool
shaper holder cataloged that would let the user put the bit at any
angle. I kind of copied that when I couldn't find the real deal on
the shelf for less than $200. Just used a rectangular section of hot-
rolled strip for the shank that the tool post held and made up a
sleeve that got welded on the end. Back end of the sleeve was behind
the clapper pivot. I took a fine thread 5/8" bolt, turned the head
round and drilled and filed a square hole in it next to the head to
fit a 1/4" bit. A nut and washer made up the rest. Filing the hole
took the longest time on the project, finished it all in an afternoon.

And a shaper without a vise is kind of like a car without tires, very
limited. Hope the shaper was bought cheap. I suppose a guy could make
one up from a regular mill vise with some sort of adapter plate and
shank for the pivot, probably wouldn't be as rigid as the real deal.

Stan

The shaper came very cheap ,I had it given to me $0 cost .
I will find a vice eventually they are around , it's just finding one .
There is one on AU Ebay right now for a very low price ,but
unfortunately is badly butchered ,has been used for a drill vice and has
some very bad over run holes and may not beworth the freight cost just
to find out its not worth repair.It's listed as a big mill vice.
Part of the problem is most people don't know the difference between a
normal machine vice and the shaper vice.

The same type of vice that the Elliot or Invicta shaper came with 9"
long jaws and 10" opening would be prerfect for the 18" Alba.
Alba is the ancestor to the Invicta and the later Elliot.The vices would
not have changed much between the models at all.

A vice is not always needed on a shaper in fact using stops and side
bearing clamps a lot of work can be done by just clamping to the table
or using an angle plate.
A vice is very handy just the same.

Gunner of this forum says he has one , I sent him an e-mail but he
hasn't got back to me as yet .
Considering thier rareity here it may be worth the cost of shipping to
get one from the US.
Some new ones are avilable from India but I'm not sure of the quality.

On Practical Machinist forum there is a post regarding making the
Armstrong/Williams universal tool holder of which you speak
Also a member of the Aussie woodwork forums (metal working section) has
just completed one for his Swedish shaper.
I will build one when I get the shaper running .

Kevin...I dug out the vise..and its only a 6" Bridgeport. I evidently
sold the larger vise with one of the bigger shapers several years ago.

As for a badly drilled vise..as long as the jaws close..the acme thread
and nut is ok..they are easily fixed up. The holes really dont hurt
anything. Ugly yes..but they dont bother the operation much. And the
jaws are a very good first project for your shaper. Make several sets
of new jaws.

Thats one of the charms of shaper ownership..you can make a ****load of
your own Stuff on it.

Gunner, with only one shaper at the moment...a Logan 8"


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 1/19/2012 8:32 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:24:45 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/19/2012 5:00 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Jan 17, 6:01 am, wrote:
On 1/17/2012 9:54 PM, Jordan wrote:





On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

Would it not be OK to just grind the toolbit, taking into account the
built in angle of a typical lathe tool holder, so the end result is the
same as with a zero rake type?

As an aside, but slightly related (because it has zero rake): I was
having trouble making a slot, until I tried a lathe's parting tool
holder, which also had a gooseneck feature. It changed from making the
shaping job a nasty ripply finish, to cutting smoothly as silk.

Shaper tyro.

Not a problem to grind the tool , ,it's just me , I just like to have
the tools to suit the machine . Toolaholic .

I have read that the gooseneck tool holders are good for preventing
chatter .
Also it depends on whether the cutting edge is in front of the clapper
pivot point or behind .
The Armstong universal tool holder can be set either way.
It takes some experimenting to see which give better results .
Haven't got to the slotting tools yet.
The shaper is still in bits and it will be a while before it's actually
running , Im being proactive and looking for bits so when it is ready to
run I have the stuff at the ready.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I had problems with chatter on the 7" AAMCO, so I took the advice in a
Brit shaper text and built one that put the tool bit behind the
clapper pivot plane. It had come with Armstrong-style tool holders,
just lathe lantern-style ones. No more problems after I made that,
just a nice "shoop-shoop" when cutting. Williams used to have a tool
shaper holder cataloged that would let the user put the bit at any
angle. I kind of copied that when I couldn't find the real deal on
the shelf for less than $200. Just used a rectangular section of hot-
rolled strip for the shank that the tool post held and made up a
sleeve that got welded on the end. Back end of the sleeve was behind
the clapper pivot. I took a fine thread 5/8" bolt, turned the head
round and drilled and filed a square hole in it next to the head to
fit a 1/4" bit. A nut and washer made up the rest. Filing the hole
took the longest time on the project, finished it all in an afternoon.

And a shaper without a vise is kind of like a car without tires, very
limited. Hope the shaper was bought cheap. I suppose a guy could make
one up from a regular mill vise with some sort of adapter plate and
shank for the pivot, probably wouldn't be as rigid as the real deal.

Stan

The shaper came very cheap ,I had it given to me $0 cost .
I will find a vice eventually they are around , it's just finding one .
There is one on AU Ebay right now for a very low price ,but
unfortunately is badly butchered ,has been used for a drill vice and has
some very bad over run holes and may not beworth the freight cost just
to find out its not worth repair.It's listed as a big mill vice.
Part of the problem is most people don't know the difference between a
normal machine vice and the shaper vice.

The same type of vice that the Elliot or Invicta shaper came with 9"
long jaws and 10" opening would be prerfect for the 18" Alba.
Alba is the ancestor to the Invicta and the later Elliot.The vices would
not have changed much between the models at all.

A vice is not always needed on a shaper in fact using stops and side
bearing clamps a lot of work can be done by just clamping to the table
or using an angle plate.
A vice is very handy just the same.

Gunner of this forum says he has one , I sent him an e-mail but he
hasn't got back to me as yet .
Considering thier rareity here it may be worth the cost of shipping to
get one from the US.
Some new ones are avilable from India but I'm not sure of the quality.

On Practical Machinist forum there is a post regarding making the
Armstrong/Williams universal tool holder of which you speak
Also a member of the Aussie woodwork forums (metal working section) has
just completed one for his Swedish shaper.
I will build one when I get the shaper running .

Kevin...I dug out the vise..and its only a 6" Bridgeport. I evidently
sold the larger vise with one of the bigger shapers several years ago.

As for a badly drilled vise..as long as the jaws close..the acme thread
and nut is ok..they are easily fixed up. The holes really dont hurt
anything. Ugly yes..but they dont bother the operation much. And the
jaws are a very good first project for your shaper. Make several sets
of new jaws.

Thats one of the charms of shaper ownership..you can make a ****load of
your own Stuff on it.

Gunner, with only one shaper at the moment...a Logan 8"


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch


Gunner ,

Thanks for looking ,appreciate the effort.
The vice on Ebay Oz is a real junker , even the screw has been drilled
almost right through right next to the jaw .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Big-Milli...em4aa66 d8fa0

Another appeared on Ebay Oz tonight .
It's a rack type and looks to be in good condition ,but has a corner
broken off the mounting plate it looks to have 14 or 15 jaws ,any way I
have made some enquiries to getting it shipped if I win the bidding .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/massive-m...99752966285289


Big problem is Australians are lazy , they want to sell the items but
wont put any effort into helping the buyer get his goods , especially
large items.Even being offered extra to arrange the transport sometimes
still gets a big fat NO.
It's easier to make it pick up only .
It's around 3,500klms to Sydney from where I live at aguess ,probably
more.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:39:36 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/19/2012 8:32 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:24:45 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/19/2012 5:00 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Jan 17, 6:01 am, wrote:
On 1/17/2012 9:54 PM, Jordan wrote:





On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Kevin(Bluey) wrote:

Zero rake lathe tool holders are not common here and very difficult to
find. I guess most of them got tossed out along with the shapers when
mills started to take over.

Would it not be OK to just grind the toolbit, taking into account the
built in angle of a typical lathe tool holder, so the end result is the
same as with a zero rake type?

As an aside, but slightly related (because it has zero rake): I was
having trouble making a slot, until I tried a lathe's parting tool
holder, which also had a gooseneck feature. It changed from making the
shaping job a nasty ripply finish, to cutting smoothly as silk.

Shaper tyro.

Not a problem to grind the tool , ,it's just me , I just like to have
the tools to suit the machine . Toolaholic .

I have read that the gooseneck tool holders are good for preventing
chatter .
Also it depends on whether the cutting edge is in front of the clapper
pivot point or behind .
The Armstong universal tool holder can be set either way.
It takes some experimenting to see which give better results .
Haven't got to the slotting tools yet.
The shaper is still in bits and it will be a while before it's actually
running , Im being proactive and looking for bits so when it is ready to
run I have the stuff at the ready.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I had problems with chatter on the 7" AAMCO, so I took the advice in a
Brit shaper text and built one that put the tool bit behind the
clapper pivot plane. It had come with Armstrong-style tool holders,
just lathe lantern-style ones. No more problems after I made that,
just a nice "shoop-shoop" when cutting. Williams used to have a tool
shaper holder cataloged that would let the user put the bit at any
angle. I kind of copied that when I couldn't find the real deal on
the shelf for less than $200. Just used a rectangular section of hot-
rolled strip for the shank that the tool post held and made up a
sleeve that got welded on the end. Back end of the sleeve was behind
the clapper pivot. I took a fine thread 5/8" bolt, turned the head
round and drilled and filed a square hole in it next to the head to
fit a 1/4" bit. A nut and washer made up the rest. Filing the hole
took the longest time on the project, finished it all in an afternoon.

And a shaper without a vise is kind of like a car without tires, very
limited. Hope the shaper was bought cheap. I suppose a guy could make
one up from a regular mill vise with some sort of adapter plate and
shank for the pivot, probably wouldn't be as rigid as the real deal.

Stan

The shaper came very cheap ,I had it given to me $0 cost .
I will find a vice eventually they are around , it's just finding one .
There is one on AU Ebay right now for a very low price ,but
unfortunately is badly butchered ,has been used for a drill vice and has
some very bad over run holes and may not beworth the freight cost just
to find out its not worth repair.It's listed as a big mill vice.
Part of the problem is most people don't know the difference between a
normal machine vice and the shaper vice.

The same type of vice that the Elliot or Invicta shaper came with 9"
long jaws and 10" opening would be prerfect for the 18" Alba.
Alba is the ancestor to the Invicta and the later Elliot.The vices would
not have changed much between the models at all.

A vice is not always needed on a shaper in fact using stops and side
bearing clamps a lot of work can be done by just clamping to the table
or using an angle plate.
A vice is very handy just the same.

Gunner of this forum says he has one , I sent him an e-mail but he
hasn't got back to me as yet .
Considering thier rareity here it may be worth the cost of shipping to
get one from the US.
Some new ones are avilable from India but I'm not sure of the quality.

On Practical Machinist forum there is a post regarding making the
Armstrong/Williams universal tool holder of which you speak
Also a member of the Aussie woodwork forums (metal working section) has
just completed one for his Swedish shaper.
I will build one when I get the shaper running .

Kevin...I dug out the vise..and its only a 6" Bridgeport. I evidently
sold the larger vise with one of the bigger shapers several years ago.

As for a badly drilled vise..as long as the jaws close..the acme thread
and nut is ok..they are easily fixed up. The holes really dont hurt
anything. Ugly yes..but they dont bother the operation much. And the
jaws are a very good first project for your shaper. Make several sets
of new jaws.

Thats one of the charms of shaper ownership..you can make a ****load of
your own Stuff on it.

Gunner, with only one shaper at the moment...a Logan 8"


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch


Gunner ,

Thanks for looking ,appreciate the effort.
The vice on Ebay Oz is a real junker , even the screw has been drilled
almost right through right next to the jaw .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Big-Milli...em4aa66 d8fa0

Gack!!!!!!!! That is a right nasty screw indeed! Ouch!

Another appeared on Ebay Oz tonight .
It's a rack type and looks to be in good condition ,but has a corner
broken off the mounting plate it looks to have 14 or 15 jaws ,any way I
have made some enquiries to getting it shipped if I win the bidding .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/massive-m...99752966285289

That is a Big vise. Perhaps too big for your machine.


Big problem is Australians are lazy , they want to sell the items but
wont put any effort into helping the buyer get his goods , especially
large items.Even being offered extra to arrange the transport sometimes
still gets a big fat NO.
It's easier to make it pick up only .
It's around 3,500klms to Sydney from where I live at aguess ,probably
more.

Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?

We have a member, Jon Anderson, who is married to a lady in Oz and will
be moving there before long. Perhaps he could find you a vise in the US
and include it in his cargo container?

Jon?

On the other hand...while you now have an 18" shaper...what will the
normal size items you will cutting actually be in size? Perhaps a 6"
vise will do it for 95% of your work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Sharpe...-/280789017658
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kearney-Trec...-/280776560004
(examples only)

Or a bit closer to home...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Milling-M...-/270761454957

Etc etc

Btw...while a shaper vise is a bit lower in profile than a milling
vise..shrug..both will work nicely on a shaper.
Bigger work can indeed be bolted/clamped to the table if need be

The problem with clamping small work in a big vise..is that getting the
vise to actually hold squarely is harder and harder with the bigger the
vise, particularly if it has any wear on it at all.

I often use a small 3" machinist vise clamped in my bigger vises, when
doing small parts.

Gunner


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:41:38 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?
snip

I am also looking for a small shaper vise for my 7 inch
atlas. Only source of new supply I could find is Indian,
and these were not cheap.

http://www.csvworkholding.com/produc...p?productId=86

also see for information about rolling your own.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-41364.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39781
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/column...column_57.html

--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:18 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:41:38 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?
snip

I am also looking for a small shaper vise for my 7 inch
atlas. Only source of new supply I could find is Indian,
and these were not cheap.

http://www.csvworkholding.com/produc...p?productId=86

also see for information about rolling your own.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-41364.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39781
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/column...column_57.html


A 4" vise is about the proper size for a 7" shaper

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-4-ANGLE-...-/140681388890

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-HEAVY-DUTY...-/330415251516


You might...might get a 5" vise on the table..maybe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-MILLING-MA...-/300593621662

Check this guys store...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shaper-and-M...-/350340374977

Gunner


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 1/20/2012 11:49 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:18 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:41:38 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?
snip

I am also looking for a small shaper vise for my 7 inch
atlas. Only source of new supply I could find is Indian,
and these were not cheap.

http://www.csvworkholding.com/produc...p?productId=86

also see for information about rolling your own.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-41364.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39781
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/column...column_57.html



Check this guys store...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shaper-and-M...-/350340374977



These vices are the ones produced in India they dont look very sturdy
due to the base area , plus they have only two hold down holes for the
base to table mounting .
I would be concerned taking decent cuts on a 18" shaper using that vice.

Having once owned an Indian made 4" bench vice that broke at the throat
just behind the moving jaw , on inspection it had been filled with auto
bog to hide the sand cavities in the casting.

General rule for shaper vices is that the jaw width should be 50% of the
stroke length.

There is an Indian made vice that has a two hole mounting plate that
could be drilled at the corners to make a four hole mount.
http://www.machinetools-india.com/machine-vices.html
scroll down to the ninth listing , I
might just e-mail them and see what the cost of a 8 or 10" one is and
how much the shipping would be. They look a bit sturdier than the Shars
(discountmachine) offering .

BTW I missed out on that big mother of a twin screw shaper vice ,it went
for $100.00AUD.
Freight to here would have been 200.00AUD at guess.
--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:16:17 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/20/2012 11:49 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:18 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:41:38 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?
snip

I am also looking for a small shaper vise for my 7 inch
atlas. Only source of new supply I could find is Indian,
and these were not cheap.

http://www.csvworkholding.com/produc...p?productId=86

also see for information about rolling your own.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-41364.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39781
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/column...column_57.html



Check this guys store...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shaper-and-M...-/350340374977



These vices are the ones produced in India they dont look very sturdy
due to the base area , plus they have only two hold down holes for the
base to table mounting .
I would be concerned taking decent cuts on a 18" shaper using that vice.

First thing you do..is remove the swivel base. While they make the vise
"more versitile"..they also can inject some flex into a vise..and flex
with a shaper..is not a good thing.

Having once owned an Indian made 4" bench vice that broke at the throat
just behind the moving jaw , on inspection it had been filled with auto
bog to hide the sand cavities in the casting.

Indeed. You got a bad one. They are not all universally bad. And I
posted some non Indian vises as well.

General rule for shaper vices is that the jaw width should be 50% of the
stroke length.

Correct, which is why I suggested in my previous post..what size work
are you actually going to be doing? If its typically small stuff..get a
vise now you can afford..and keep your eyes peeled for a bigger one that
you may find later.

There is an Indian made vice that has a two hole mounting plate that
could be drilled at the corners to make a four hole mount.
http://www.machinetools-india.com/machine-vices.html
scroll down to the ninth listing , I
might just e-mail them and see what the cost of a 8 or 10" one is and
how much the shipping would be. They look a bit sturdier than the Shars
(discountmachine) offering .

BTW I missed out on that big mother of a twin screw shaper vice ,it went
for $100.00AUD.
Freight to here would have been 200.00AUD at guess.

Put the word out on EVERY metalworking newsgroup/website in Oz that you
are looking for a shaper vise of a certain size. Ive gotten very good
deals/swaps doing that for wierd stuff.
Know any truck brokers? The guys who schedule cargo runs from point to
point? If a guy 2500 KM from you has a vise, but a truck will be going
there next month..a broker may well know and shipping will be vastly
cheaper if you have a bit of cash on hand. Got one in your town? Make
his aqqaintence. I once got something from a guy in Texas that came in
with a load of produce. VBG 250lbs for $40


Oh..and keep in mind...a 9" vise..is going to be a heavy *******.
You dont want your grand mum trying to load it in her Holden.
Grin


Gunner


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 1/20/2012 7:11 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:16:17 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/20/2012 11:49 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:18 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:41:38 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?
snip

I am also looking for a small shaper vise for my 7 inch
atlas. Only source of new supply I could find is Indian,
and these were not cheap.

http://www.csvworkholding.com/produc...p?productId=86

also see for information about rolling your own.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-41364.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39781
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/column...column_57.html



Check this guys store...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shaper-and-M...-/350340374977



These vices are the ones produced in India they dont look very sturdy
due to the base area , plus they have only two hold down holes for the
base to table mounting .
I would be concerned taking decent cuts on a 18" shaper using that vice.

First thing you do..is remove the swivel base. While they make the vise
"more versitile"..they also can inject some flex into a vise..and flex
with a shaper..is not a good thing.

Having once owned an Indian made 4" bench vice that broke at the throat
just behind the moving jaw , on inspection it had been filled with auto
bog to hide the sand cavities in the casting.

Indeed. You got a bad one. They are not all universally bad. And I
posted some non Indian vises as well.

General rule for shaper vices is that the jaw width should be 50% of the
stroke length.

Correct, which is why I suggested in my previous post..what size work
are you actually going to be doing? If its typically small stuff..get a
vise now you can afford..and keep your eyes peeled for a bigger one that
you may find later.

There is an Indian made vice that has a two hole mounting plate that
could be drilled at the corners to make a four hole mount.
http://www.machinetools-india.com/machine-vices.html
scroll down to the ninth listing , I
might just e-mail them and see what the cost of a 8 or 10" one is and
how much the shipping would be. They look a bit sturdier than the Shars
(discountmachine) offering .

BTW I missed out on that big mother of a twin screw shaper vice ,it went
for $100.00AUD.
Freight to here would have been 200.00AUD at guess.

Put the word out on EVERY metalworking newsgroup/website in Oz that you
are looking for a shaper vise of a certain size. Ive gotten very good
deals/swaps doing that for wierd stuff.
Know any truck brokers? The guys who schedule cargo runs from point to
point? If a guy 2500 KM from you has a vise, but a truck will be going
there next month..a broker may well know and shipping will be vastly
cheaper if you have a bit of cash on hand. Got one in your town? Make
his aqqaintence. I once got something from a guy in Texas that came in
with a load of produce.VBG 250lbs for $40


Oh..and keep in mind...a 9" vise..is going to be a heavy *******.
You dont want your grand mum trying to load it in her Holden.
Grin


Gunner


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Managed to secure a williams tool holder from your side of the pond it's
a T-2-s no back rake 21.00US + frieght
$35.00 allup .

My grandma is long gone ,and she drove a Morris. LOL.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:34:32 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/20/2012 7:11 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:16:17 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/20/2012 11:49 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:18 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:41:38 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?
snip

I am also looking for a small shaper vise for my 7 inch
atlas. Only source of new supply I could find is Indian,
and these were not cheap.

http://www.csvworkholding.com/produc...p?productId=86

also see for information about rolling your own.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-41364.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39781
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/column...column_57.html



Check this guys store...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shaper-and-M...-/350340374977



These vices are the ones produced in India they dont look very sturdy
due to the base area , plus they have only two hold down holes for the
base to table mounting .
I would be concerned taking decent cuts on a 18" shaper using that vice.

First thing you do..is remove the swivel base. While they make the vise
"more versitile"..they also can inject some flex into a vise..and flex
with a shaper..is not a good thing.

Having once owned an Indian made 4" bench vice that broke at the throat
just behind the moving jaw , on inspection it had been filled with auto
bog to hide the sand cavities in the casting.

Indeed. You got a bad one. They are not all universally bad. And I
posted some non Indian vises as well.

General rule for shaper vices is that the jaw width should be 50% of the
stroke length.

Correct, which is why I suggested in my previous post..what size work
are you actually going to be doing? If its typically small stuff..get a
vise now you can afford..and keep your eyes peeled for a bigger one that
you may find later.

There is an Indian made vice that has a two hole mounting plate that
could be drilled at the corners to make a four hole mount.
http://www.machinetools-india.com/machine-vices.html
scroll down to the ninth listing , I
might just e-mail them and see what the cost of a 8 or 10" one is and
how much the shipping would be. They look a bit sturdier than the Shars
(discountmachine) offering .

BTW I missed out on that big mother of a twin screw shaper vice ,it went
for $100.00AUD.
Freight to here would have been 200.00AUD at guess.

Put the word out on EVERY metalworking newsgroup/website in Oz that you
are looking for a shaper vise of a certain size. Ive gotten very good
deals/swaps doing that for wierd stuff.
Know any truck brokers? The guys who schedule cargo runs from point to
point? If a guy 2500 KM from you has a vise, but a truck will be going
there next month..a broker may well know and shipping will be vastly
cheaper if you have a bit of cash on hand. Got one in your town? Make
his aqqaintence. I once got something from a guy in Texas that came in
with a load of produce.VBG 250lbs for $40


Oh..and keep in mind...a 9" vise..is going to be a heavy *******.
You dont want your grand mum trying to load it in her Holden.
Grin


Gunner


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Managed to secure a williams tool holder from your side of the pond it's
a T-2-s no back rake 21.00US + frieght
$35.00 allup .

Excellent!!

Im curious...in which direction is shipping the most expensive?

My grandma is long gone ,and she drove a Morris. LOL.

VBG

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 1/24/2012 5:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:34:32 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/20/2012 7:11 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:16:17 +0930, "Kevin(Bluey)"
wrote:

On 1/20/2012 11:49 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:18 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:41:38 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Nothing available from the Orient? Perhaps a chinese or jap vise may be
simply cheaper in the long run?
snip

I am also looking for a small shaper vise for my 7 inch
atlas. Only source of new supply I could find is Indian,
and these were not cheap.

http://www.csvworkholding.com/produc...p?productId=86

also see for information about rolling your own.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-41364.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39781
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/column...column_57.html



Check this guys store...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shaper-and-M...-/350340374977



These vices are the ones produced in India they dont look very sturdy
due to the base area , plus they have only two hold down holes for the
base to table mounting .
I would be concerned taking decent cuts on a 18" shaper using that vice.

First thing you do..is remove the swivel base. While they make the vise
"more versitile"..they also can inject some flex into a vise..and flex
with a shaper..is not a good thing.

Having once owned an Indian made 4" bench vice that broke at the throat
just behind the moving jaw , on inspection it had been filled with auto
bog to hide the sand cavities in the casting.

Indeed. You got a bad one. They are not all universally bad. And I
posted some non Indian vises as well.

General rule for shaper vices is that the jaw width should be 50% of the
stroke length.

Correct, which is why I suggested in my previous post..what size work
are you actually going to be doing? If its typically small stuff..get a
vise now you can afford..and keep your eyes peeled for a bigger one that
you may find later.

There is an Indian made vice that has a two hole mounting plate that
could be drilled at the corners to make a four hole mount.
http://www.machinetools-india.com/machine-vices.html
scroll down to the ninth listing , I
might just e-mail them and see what the cost of a 8 or 10" one is and
how much the shipping would be. They look a bit sturdier than the Shars
(discountmachine) offering .

BTW I missed out on that big mother of a twin screw shaper vice ,it went
for $100.00AUD.
Freight to here would have been 200.00AUD at guess.

Put the word out on EVERY metalworking newsgroup/website in Oz that you
are looking for a shaper vise of a certain size. Ive gotten very good
deals/swaps doing that for wierd stuff.
Know any truck brokers? The guys who schedule cargo runs from point to
point? If a guy 2500 KM from you has a vise, but a truck will be going
there next month..a broker may well know and shipping will be vastly
cheaper if you have a bit of cash on hand. Got one in your town? Make
his aqqaintence. I once got something from a guy in Texas that came in
with a load of produce.VBG 250lbs for $40


Oh..and keep in mind...a 9" vise..is going to be a heavy *******.
You dont want your grand mum trying to load it in her Holden.
Grin


Gunner


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Managed to secure a williams tool holder from your side of the pond it's
a T-2-s no back rake 21.00US + frieght
$35.00 allup .

Excellent!!

Im curious...in which direction is shipping the most expensive?

My grandma is long gone ,and she drove a Morris. LOL.

VBG

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Found a vice in Sydney ,New South Wales for $120.00AU , I live in the
Northern Territory , I got a quote to ship the vice from there to here
it came out at 2 cents short of $400.00AU.
I intend to get a quote from elsewhere.
The vice I was looking at in India is $439US including sea frieght from
the land of Vindaloo.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

Hey all,

I'm headed to NAMES on Saturday morning first thing. Hope a whole lot
of you can get there too.

This year, it is back at the Yack Arena in downtown Wyandotte, which
is right on 3 miles due east of the place it was in 2011. 2 blocks
north of Eureka Rd., 2 blocks west of Biddle (the main drag in
Wyandotte).

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Brian Lawson wrote:

Hey all,

I'm headed to NAMES on Saturday morning first thing. Hope a whole lot
of you can get there too.

This year, it is back at the Yack Arena in downtown Wyandotte, which
is right on 3 miles due east of the place it was in 2011. 2 blocks
north of Eureka Rd., 2 blocks west of Biddle (the main drag in
Wyandotte).

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

I hope you have a great time. I won't be attending this year. I spent my fun budget
replacing my electric service and buying a generator. The March snowstorm was a doozy.

Wes

On Apr 20, 1:53*pm, Brian Lawson wrote:
Hey all,

I'm headed to NAMES on Saturday morning first thing. *Hope a whole lot
of you can get there too.

This year, it is back at the Yack Arena in downtown Wyandotte, which
is right on 3 miles due east of the place it was in 2011. *2 blocks
north of Eureka Rd., 2 blocks west of Biddle (the main drag in
Wyandotte).

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

I was there on Saturday from 9 till 1pm - this time I got there early
enough to easily find a parking spot and be there when the doors
opened.