fired this volley in
:

The ridge vents I installed on my shed have never let any rain or
snow into the "attic" of my shed - and we get some doozies of winter
storms here in Waterloo Ontario.


I never said the ridge venting material leaked. I said it looked like
crap and got plugged up fast and easily. OTOH, I have never had to clean
out any of our off-ridge vents -- there's just nothing there to attract
"critters" or hold dirt and debris.

BTW... if you look at an off-ridge vent, you'll swear it couldn't resist
side-blown rain. However, the dimensions and arrangement of the baffle
system forms an airflow over the exit duct when driven in from the open
side, and it very effectively stays dry.

FWIW, they're also very easy to install on a new roof or a re-roofing job
(pretty much a major pain on an existing 'old' roof). Just a couple of
cuts with a saw through the decking, and some screws or nails and bull
around the joints, and you're done. Quick, easy, doesn't require 3" long
nails...

And if you put them away from the "show" side of the house, they're also
invisible, instead of making that "high hat" look of the sponge vents.

LLoyd

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:22:18 -0700
wrote:

snip
Was that the standard ~12x12 inch roof vents you modified?

They are 'eyebrow' vents. They're rectangular, measuring 24-1/2" W
by 17-1/2" deep and about 3" high. Examples are shown on the
"Barbie and Ken Dream Bungalow". (I Kid.)

If so do you have any links/info on the solar exhaust fans you used for
this?

The exact things:
http://www.costco.com/
Item: 470353
Solar Powered All Purpose Ventilator
I really like the thought of the sun cooling my attic.
The installation was fast and easy; I appreciated not
having to do any real 'electrical' work.

snip
Then the little 'eyebrow vents' should totally gross you out.
They are just awful.
http://roofinginsacramento.com/Photo...Vent_small.jpg

Gulp! I saw the price ($269.99), I'll run some wiring into the
attic first before swallowing that $$$. But you did give me a good idea
that I hadn't been considering. I may just round up some smallish
120vac exhaust fans and mount them in the attic underneath my existing
vents. Put an on/off switch somewhere convenient and call it
good-enough.

There are non-solar 'whole house' fans in the sub $100 range
that will install quickly and easily, too.

There are 'snap action' thermal switches that turn on at 80 F
in series with the solar panel and motor in the admittedly
overpriced (but effective) Costco fan I cited. During very
cold months, down to +40 F (BURRR!), it's nice to know that
the fans won't pull cold air into the attic.

Those eyebrow vents actually don't look so bad.

Aesthetically? I dunno. That doesn't concern me
overmuch. Their performance is stunningly awful.
That concerns me *a lot*.

One would need to remove all the shingles and have
nothing but 'eyebrow vents' to approach reasonable
airflow. To have just three of these teeny little
things to vent an entire house is fraud.

I really don't care
about the look as much as the function.

I'm with ya.

In another post Lloyd more or
less confirmed some suspicions I had concerning the ridge-vents in
wide use and also alerted me to another unknown vent that I'll have to
take a look at. Need a new roof anyway and that would be the time to
change/add anything new vent wise.

We have vents that look like model "RVA 51 / RVG 51 Square" about
halfway down on this page:

http://www.airvent.com/professional/...fLouvers.shtml

Our's have a nice internal screen which seems to be sorely lacking
nowadays on the borg vents I've looked at. Insects would have a blast
without screens...

Please PLEASE stay on top of your roofer WRT venting.

Left to their own devices, he will install an insufficient
number of the absolutely worst performing crap in such a
way as to make correction very difficult. AMHIKT, go ahead!

(There were no fewer than 30 nails holding the top 5" of
the edge of my eyebrow vent to the roof and not a single
nail or speck of adhesive holding the bottom 90% of the
flange.)

Thanks Winston, for the info and idea!

Certainly. Good luck, Leon!

--Winston

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 16:34:40 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

The ridge vents I installed on my shed have never let any rain or
snow into the "attic" of my shed - and we get some doozies of winter
storms here in Waterloo Ontario.


I never said the ridge venting material leaked. I said it looked like
crap and got plugged up fast and easily. OTOH, I have never had to clean
out any of our off-ridge vents -- there's just nothing there to attract
"critters" or hold dirt and debris.

BTW... if you look at an off-ridge vent, you'll swear it couldn't resist
side-blown rain. However, the dimensions and arrangement of the baffle
system forms an airflow over the exit duct when driven in from the open
side, and it very effectively stays dry.

FWIW, they're also very easy to install on a new roof or a re-roofing job
(pretty much a major pain on an existing 'old' roof). Just a couple of
cuts with a saw through the decking, and some screws or nails and bull
around the joints, and you're done. Quick, easy, doesn't require 3" long
nails...

And if you put them away from the "show" side of the house, they're also
invisible, instead of making that "high hat" look of the sponge vents.

LLoyd
The "off Ridge" vents work great on the downwind side, but I'd be a
little uncomfortable with them facing the prevailing winds. (a whole
lot less effective even if they don't leak)

fired this volley in
:

The "off Ridge" vents work great on the downwind side, but I'd be a
little uncomfortable with them facing the prevailing winds. (a whole
lot less effective even if they don't leak)

Yeah,but (my life is dedicated to the "yeah, but..")

That is an installation criterion. Let's face it, if someone places a
horizontally-oriented "heat vent" where it will face _continuous_
prevailing winds, he's a moron! G

OTOH... most of our Summer winds in Florida are from the southwest. Yet,
although my vents are on the West or South sides of the roof, they do a
bang-up job of reducing the attic temperature. Rarely (and this isn't
obvious) cool air is injected into the attic via the vents, and hot air
exits via the soffits under the induced pressure.

Additionally (I'll reiterate) the baffles are so constructed as to not
allow impinging wind to enter the vent. That's how they avoid leaking
rain into the attic. It goes OVER the vent, creating a "Bernoulli
effect" suction as it blows.

So it works either way!

LLoyd

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:36:42 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

The "off Ridge" vents work great on the downwind side, but I'd be a
little uncomfortable with them facing the prevailing winds. (a whole
lot less effective even if they don't leak)

Yeah,but (my life is dedicated to the "yeah, but..")

That is an installation criterion. Let's face it, if someone places a
horizontally-oriented "heat vent" where it will face _continuous_
prevailing winds, he's a moron! G


If the front of the house faceseast, and the prevailing westerlies are
strong, you have 2 choises. Ugly or inefficient
OTOH... most of our Summer winds in Florida are from the southwest. Yet,
although my vents are on the West or South sides of the roof, they do a
bang-up job of reducing the attic temperature. Rarely (and this isn't
obvious) cool air is injected into the attic via the vents, and hot air
exits via the soffits under the induced pressure.

Where it is fighting thermally induced convection currents - so you
loose efficiency again. A ridge vent works VERY well in this
situation.

Additionally (I'll reiterate) the baffles are so constructed as to not
allow impinging wind to enter the vent. That's how they avoid leaking
rain into the attic. It goes OVER the vent, creating a "Bernoulli
effect" suction as it blows.

So it works either way!
Yes, it works - but you loose efficiency.

LLoyd

fired this volley in
:

A ridge vent works VERY well in this
situation.


Yeah, and looks ugly from ALL sides.

G

LLoyd

On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 06:19:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

A ridge vent works VERY well in this
situation.


Yeah, and looks ugly from ALL sides. G

Buttes are in the eye of the beholder, or sumpin' like that.

I prefer this http://goo.gl/90fg to this http://goo.gl/sBDiu or this
http://goo.gl/b0AVA , don't you? Ridge vents are low, subtle, and
nearly invisible. The others are mountainous lesions sticking up from
the otherwise flat roofline. YMMV.

--
The problem with borrowing money from China is
that thirty minutes later, you feel broke again.
--Steve Bridges as Obama

[endless venting venting...]

Just put on a cupola (functional type - the almost original roof vent,
right after the smoke hole....) looks good, and you have an excuse for
the weathervane/lightning rod...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:50:27 -0700
Winston wrote:

snip
There are non-solar 'whole house' fans in the sub $100 range
that will install quickly and easily, too.

I've looked at them in sale ads but something about the
design turns me off. I suspect they are lacking in the insect/screen
area but haven't been able to examine one to be sure.

There are 'snap action' thermal switches that turn on at 80 F
in series with the solar panel and motor in the admittedly
overpriced (but effective) Costco fan I cited. During very
cold months, down to +40 F (BURRR!), it's nice to know that
the fans won't pull cold air into the attic.

Probably just use a manual switch, maybe a timer. I worked as an
electricians apprentice for a few years early in my life so I'm
familiar with stuff like that. Lots of options, could always make some
changes if I don't like how it works...

snip
Please PLEASE stay on top of your roofer WRT venting.

That would be ME. I got the unattached garage redone a year ago. Busted
my butt for ~2 weeks. The house needs it too, but I still need to find
a good little heavy duty trailer for cheap (I hate dickering with
people and new is not an option). The dumpster guys only want to leave
one for a week (BTDT), then they want to bill you more for having it
sit around. If I have my own trailer it can sit around till I'm ready to
dump it. I have two layers of old three-tabs to tear off. Probably take
me a good month or two to get it done. Trying to dodge the rain while
doing it by myself drives me nutty...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:50:27 -0700
wrote:

snip
There are non-solar 'whole house' fans in the sub $100 range
that will install quickly and easily, too.

I've looked at them in sale ads but something about the
design turns me off. I suspect they are lacking in the insect/screen
area but haven't been able to examine one to be sure.

One can always remove the coarse screen and install
a finer screen, I suppose.

(...)

Probably just use a manual switch, maybe a timer. I worked as an
electricians apprentice for a few years early in my life so I'm
familiar with stuff like that. Lots of options, could always make some
changes if I don't like how it works...

Excellent.
I really don't like being in the 'control loop',
so a switch or windup timer wouldn't work as
well for me.

Please PLEASE stay on top of your roofer WRT venting.

That would be ME. I got the unattached garage redone a year ago. Busted
my butt for ~2 weeks.

Good on ya. I wouldn't know where to start with a tearoff
and rebuild like that. Doubtless the results will be very nice.

The house needs it too, but I still need to find
a good little heavy duty trailer for cheap (I hate dickering with
people and new is not an option). The dumpster guys only want to leave
one for a week (BTDT), then they want to bill you more for having it
sit around. If I have my own trailer it can sit around till I'm ready to
dump it. I have two layers of old three-tabs to tear off. Probably take
me a good month or two to get it done. Trying to dodge the rain while
doing it by myself drives me nutty...

My local liquor store gave me several wood pallets for the asking.
I bet I could buy some 3 ply cartons and a strap kit to create several
pallet boxes. Sorta like:
http://www.idspackaging.com/Common/E...packaging1.jpg

Fill with debris at your leisure and use a pallet jack
to place them on a flat trailer rented for the day.
http://www.rentalsite.com/Images/RSN...es/ByID/83.jpg

Off to the dump and no-one's the wiser.


--Winston

On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 14:44:51 -0700
Winston wrote:

snip
One can always remove the coarse screen and install
a finer screen, I suppose.

Nowadays the vents that look like mine (as I previously mentioned)
have slots. The kind were you make a slit and force this open. I looks
like something done with a press, kaboom, screen/filter done. This is
integral to the bottom part or flange area that attaches to the roof.
Our Box-elder Beetles and Stink Bugs would have a ball with it. The old
(~40 years) ones I currently have are window screen size mesh, work
good. You're right, I could add some sort of screen and kinda of
figured I would have to. But this is all kind of hard to determine
feasibility until you have the power vent and then you may find it
isn't all that feasible... I know, I know, beginning to sound like
Grama Grunt...

That would be ME. I got the unattached garage redone a year ago. Busted
my butt for ~2 weeks.

Good on ya. I wouldn't know where to start with a tearoff
and rebuild like that. Doubtless the results will be very nice.

Lots of back-breaking labor, by the end of the day my knees were pretty
upset with me. Go off to bed thinking I'm too damn sore to do more
tomorrow and low-and-behold by the next morning I felt functional
again even though I didn't sleep so well. If you want to stop around
sometime next year I'll get an extra tear-off shovel and provide
some HANDS ON instruction. Think I already have extra hammers,
knives... ;-)

I helped several old friends re-roof when I was younger but they
aren't in any shape nowadays to be of use. Hell they could hardly keep
going 30 years ago. I know better than to mention it...

snip
My local liquor store gave me several wood pallets for the asking.
I bet I could buy some 3 ply cartons and a strap kit to create several
pallet boxes. Sorta like:
http://www.idspackaging.com/Common/E...packaging1.jpg
snip

That's an interesting idea. Hadn't considered something along those
lines. The dumpster isn't really a bad deal, I just can't fill it fast
enough. It works pretty nice to just throw the tear-off from the roof
to the dumpster or container down below. I've pretty much blown off the
thought of doing it yet this year so I'll have all winter to stew on it.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 14:44:51 -0700
wrote:

snip
One can always remove the coarse screen and install
a finer screen, I suppose.

Nowadays the vents that look like mine (as I previously mentioned)
have slots. The kind were you make a slit and force this open. I looks
like something done with a press, kaboom, screen/filter done. This is
integral to the bottom part or flange area that attaches to the roof.

I was referring to the screens that come in the
'whole house' fans. The one in my fan for example
is a fairly coarse mesh. I will keep an eye on it
and if it lets in any uninvited guests, I will
install a finer mesh screen.

Our Box-elder Beetles and Stink Bugs would have a ball with it. The old
(~40 years) ones I currently have are window screen size mesh, work
good. You're right, I could add some sort of screen and kinda of
figured I would have to. But this is all kind of hard to determine
feasibility until you have the power vent and then you may find it
isn't all that feasible..

It looks pretty simple on my power vent.
I think I could cut screen to match and use pop
rivets and spreader bars to install.


That would be ME. I got the unattached garage redone a year ago. Busted
my butt for ~2 weeks.

Good on ya. I wouldn't know where to start with a tearoff
and rebuild like that. Doubtless the results will be very nice.

Lots of back-breaking labor, by the end of the day my knees were pretty
upset with me. Go off to bed thinking I'm too damn sore to do more
tomorrow and low-and-behold by the next morning I felt functional
again even though I didn't sleep so well. If you want to stop around
sometime next year I'll get an extra tear-off shovel and provide
some HANDS ON instruction. Think I already have extra hammers,
knives... ;-)

You are too generous by half, Leon.
Thank you but no.

I helped several old friends re-roof when I was younger but they
aren't in any shape nowadays to be of use. Hell they could hardly keep
going 30 years ago. I know better than to mention it...

Ouch.

snip
My local liquor store gave me several wood pallets for the asking.
I bet I could buy some 3 ply cartons and a strap kit to create several
pallet boxes. Sorta like:
http://www.idspackaging.com/Common/E...packaging1.jpg
snip

That's an interesting idea. Hadn't considered something along those
lines. The dumpster isn't really a bad deal, I just can't fill it fast
enough. It works pretty nice to just throw the tear-off from the roof
to the dumpster or container down below. I've pretty much blown off the
thought of doing it yet this year so I'll have all winter to stew on it.

I see a large square tube frame supporting an
elevated open-topped box with a 'funnel'
shaped bottom.
Box lip is at roof level. Fill it up
at your leisure and park the dumpster
underneath. Pull the trap door and viola,
one full dumpster!

--Winston -- Welding Practice!

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 12:48:40 -0700
Winston wrote:

snip
Nowadays the vents that look like mine (as I previously mentioned)
have slots. The kind were you make a slit and force this open. I looks
like something done with a press, kaboom, screen/filter done. This is
integral to the bottom part or flange area that attaches to the roof.

I was referring to the screens that come in the
'whole house' fans. The one in my fan for example
is a fairly coarse mesh. I will keep an eye on it
and if it lets in any uninvited guests, I will
install a finer mesh screen.

Yah, I knew you were referring to the 'whole house' fan. Just thought I
would describe what I've been seeing in all the roof vents I've
inspected for sale at the local borgs. Kind of a word of warning and
suspicion that the idea/technique is used in other, similar products...
Our soffit vents are just window screen stapled over a rectangular
hole. The soffit stuff they sell today looks pretty poor for blocking
insects too.

snip
It looks pretty simple on my power vent.
I think I could cut screen to match and use pop
rivets and spreader bars to install.

Well keep a good eye on it, especially during the fall. If you lived
in our Upper Peninsula the "cluster flies" would be having a ball
right now. Those suckers can find a way into ANY house...

snip
I see a large square tube frame supporting an
elevated open-topped box with a 'funnel'
shaped bottom.
Box lip is at roof level. Fill it up
at your leisure and park the dumpster
underneath. Pull the trap door and viola,
one full dumpster!

I haven't done the math, but off the top-of-my-head I'm looking at
3000-5000 lbs of debris in the tear-off. I like your way of thinking
though ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:

(...)

Yah, I knew you were referring to the 'whole house' fan. Just thought I
would describe what I've been seeing in all the roof vents I've
inspected for sale at the local borgs. Kind of a word of warning and
suspicion that the idea/technique is used in other, similar products...
Our soffit vents are just window screen stapled over a rectangular
hole. The soffit stuff they sell today looks pretty poor for blocking
insects too.

We are blessed in my part of the country.
No weather and very few troublesome insects.
The wider mesh suits this area really well.

(...)

I haven't done the math, but off the top-of-my-head I'm looking at
3000-5000 lbs of debris in the tear-off. I like your way of thinking
though ;-)

--And a set of pulverizing grinders in the funnel to
keep the funnel from clogging.
I can over-complicate *anything*.

--Winston

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 12:48:40 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 14:44:51 -0700
wrote:

snip
One can always remove the coarse screen and install
a finer screen, I suppose.

Nowadays the vents that look like mine (as I previously mentioned)
have slots. The kind were you make a slit and force this open. I looks
like something done with a press, kaboom, screen/filter done. This is
integral to the bottom part or flange area that attaches to the roof.

I was referring to the screens that come in the
'whole house' fans. The one in my fan for example
is a fairly coarse mesh. I will keep an eye on it
and if it lets in any uninvited guests, I will
install a finer mesh screen.

Our Box-elder Beetles and Stink Bugs would have a ball with it. The old
(~40 years) ones I currently have are window screen size mesh, work
good. You're right, I could add some sort of screen and kinda of
figured I would have to. But this is all kind of hard to determine
feasibility until you have the power vent and then you may find it
isn't all that feasible..

It looks pretty simple on my power vent.
I think I could cut screen to match and use pop
rivets and spreader bars to install.


That would be ME. I got the unattached garage redone a year ago. Busted
my butt for ~2 weeks.

Good on ya. I wouldn't know where to start with a tearoff
and rebuild like that. Doubtless the results will be very nice.

Lots of back-breaking labor, by the end of the day my knees were pretty
upset with me. Go off to bed thinking I'm too damn sore to do more
tomorrow and low-and-behold by the next morning I felt functional
again even though I didn't sleep so well. If you want to stop around
sometime next year I'll get an extra tear-off shovel and provide
some HANDS ON instruction. Think I already have extra hammers,
knives... ;-)

You are too generous by half, Leon.
Thank you but no.

I helped several old friends re-roof when I was younger but they
aren't in any shape nowadays to be of use. Hell they could hardly keep
going 30 years ago. I know better than to mention it...

Ouch.

snip
My local liquor store gave me several wood pallets for the asking.
I bet I could buy some 3 ply cartons and a strap kit to create several
pallet boxes. Sorta like:
http://www.idspackaging.com/Common/E...packaging1.jpg
snip

That's an interesting idea. Hadn't considered something along those
lines. The dumpster isn't really a bad deal, I just can't fill it fast
enough. It works pretty nice to just throw the tear-off from the roof
to the dumpster or container down below. I've pretty much blown off the
thought of doing it yet this year so I'll have all winter to stew on it.

I see a large square tube frame supporting an
elevated open-topped box with a 'funnel'
shaped bottom.
Box lip is at roof level. Fill it up
at your leisure and park the dumpster
underneath. Pull the trap door and viola,
one full dumpster!

--Winston -- Welding Practice!
And there is always the "dumpster in a bag" - not sure what the
weight limit is, and if it is adequate - but becoming quite popular
around here - from "Waste Management Corporation" You can have it on
the driveway as long as you want because you are not renting it. You
own it (at least the way I understand it).

wrote:

(...)

And there is always the "dumpster in a bag" - not sure what the
weight limit is, and if it is adequate - but becoming quite popular
around here - from "Waste Management Corporation" You can have it on
the driveway as long as you want because you are not renting it. You
own it (at least the way I understand it).

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...=10053&cm_mmc=
Mfgsite-_-brandlinkstrat-_-Bagster -_-PIP&locStoreNum=6175&marketID=373

"The collection fee is not included. "

Uh oh.

--Winston

wrote in message
news
...
And there is always the "dumpster in a bag" - not sure what the
weight limit is, and if it is adequate - but becoming quite popular
around here - from "Waste Management Corporation" You can have it on
the driveway as long as you want because you are not renting it. You
own it (at least the way I understand it).

Are those strong and waterproof enough to use as the lower part of a storage
shelter?

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
news
...
And there is always the "dumpster in a bag" - not sure what the
weight limit is, and if it is adequate - but becoming quite popular
around here - from "Waste Management Corporation" You can have it on
the driveway as long as you want because you are not renting it. You
own it (at least the way I understand it).

Are those strong and waterproof enough to use as the lower part of a storage
shelter?


Guess not:
"The Bagster® bag is not waterproof. Because it is made of a woven material,
it will not hold water or protect anything from getting wet."

http://www.thebagster.com/product_info_specs.aspx

--Winston

On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:29:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


wrote in message
news
...
And there is always the "dumpster in a bag" - not sure what the
weight limit is, and if it is adequate - but becoming quite popular
around here - from "Waste Management Corporation" You can have it on
the driveway as long as you want because you are not renting it. You
own it (at least the way I understand it).

Are those strong and waterproof enough to use as the lower part of a storage
shelter?

jsw

Don't know - I've never actually taken a close look at one - whether
they are "Fabrene" or what - no idea.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:06:46 -0400
wrote:

snip
And there is always the "dumpster in a bag" - not sure what the
weight limit is, and if it is adequate - but becoming quite popular
around here - from "Waste Management Corporation" You can have it on
the driveway as long as you want because you are not renting it. You
own it (at least the way I understand it).

Hmm... another interesting item/device I wasn't aware of. Thanks for
the pointer. Don't know if I'll try it or not but feel I'm a bit wiser
knowing of it

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Winston wrote:

I'm now tearing off the vent in the garage roof to
install a more reasonable solution there.

I've replaced it with this solar - powered attic vent fan:

http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/pro...olarRoof.shtml

http://www.lowes.com/pd_269916-228-N...n&facetInf o=


For the first time in years, the garage is now cooler
than the air outside.

--Winston

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:51:14 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Winston wrote:

I'm now tearing off the vent in the garage roof to
install a more reasonable solution there.

I've replaced it with this solar - powered attic vent fan:

http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/pro...olarRoof.shtml

http://www.lowes.com/pd_269916-228-N...n&facetInf o=


For the first time in years, the garage is now cooler
than the air outside.

And why is this more important to you than ~$250?

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:51:14 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

For the first time in years, the garage is now cooler
than the air outside.

And why is this more important to you than ~$250?

1) Economy

A) The roofing job on this place cost us $18,000.
(Eighteen Thousand US dollarettes). I know that
the shingles and roof deck will last years longer,
now that they will be cooler during the summer and
dryer year-round.

2) Comfort

A) When most folks say "It is so *cold* and *dry* in here!",
I will be saying, "It's still a little warm and wet but
I like the trend." My vehicle A/C is almost always cranked
to '11' when I am driving alone. I like COLD during the
summer.

B) The next few blackouts will probably occur during some
of the hottest summers ever to go on record.
I *really* like the idea of the cooling fans running
autonomously, even if electrical power isn't available.

3) Energy use

A) My mini-fridge in the garage and the fridge and A/C in
the house do not have to produce quite as many expensive
CO2 molecules to keep me and SWMBO comfortably chilled.
The garage and house attic share a huge common firewall.
Cooler on both sides is better.

4) It's a Hobby!

A) Alternative energy is a real interest of mine.
I like participating to some small degree.

5) It's amusing!

A) The same sun that is warming the house is also circulating
lots of air to keep me cool. I like the dichotomy.

B) The sadists that re-roofed this place have *not* won.
I am no longer boiling in my own juices during the
summer months. I like that.

C) The garage measures about 500 sq. ft. The fan is rated
for 1200 sq. ft. Overkill is insufficient.


--Winston -- Other than that, I haven't really thought about it.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:01:00 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:51:14 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

For the first time in years, the garage is now cooler
than the air outside.

And why is this more important to you than ~$250?

1) Economy

A) The roofing job on this place cost us $18,000.
(Eighteen Thousand US dollarettes). I know that
the shingles and roof deck will last years longer,
now that they will be cooler during the summer and
dryer year-round.

Have you researched it? What kind of numbers do they put out? I'm
truly curious.


2) Comfort

A) When most folks say "It is so *cold* and *dry* in here!",
I will be saying, "It's still a little warm and wet but
I like the trend." My vehicle A/C is almost always cranked
to '11' when I am driving alone. I like COLD during the
summer.

I hear that.


B) The next few blackouts will probably occur during some
of the hottest summers ever to go on record.
I *really* like the idea of the cooling fans running
autonomously, even if electrical power isn't available.

3) Energy use

A) My mini-fridge in the garage and the fridge and A/C in
the house do not have to produce quite as many expensive
CO2 molecules to keep me and SWMBO comfortably chilled.
The garage and house attic share a huge common firewall.
Cooler on both sides is better.

Careful, you're making SENSE now...


4) It's a Hobby!

A) Alternative energy is a real interest of mine.
I like participating to some small degree.

Then why didn't you build your own? snicker


5) It's amusing!

A) The same sun that is warming the house is also circulating
lots of air to keep me cool. I like the dichotomy.

B) The sadists that re-roofed this place have *not* won.
I am no longer boiling in my own juices during the
summer months. I like that.

What color roofing did you choose? Mine's beige, the lightest I've
seen locally. I'll likely go white the next time, and I'll seal the
attic and insulate the roof. I need to have all the trees down before
that, though. I spent 3 hours on the roof cleaning yesterday.


C) The garage measures about 500 sq. ft. The fan is rated
for 1200 sq. ft. Overkill is insufficient.

2.4x seems fine to me. I'm calling the photon police. You're using
far too many. Then I'm calling the AGWKers to let them know that
you're venting heated air into the atmosphere, trying to melt the
remaining 1/5th of a glacier that remains on our overheated planet.


--Winston -- Other than that, I haven't really thought about it.

Uh, I can tell.

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:01:00 -0700,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:51:14 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

For the first time in years, the garage is now cooler
than the air outside.

And why is this more important to you than ~$250?

1) Economy

A) The roofing job on this place cost us $18,000.
(Eighteen Thousand US dollarettes). I know that
the shingles and roof deck will last years longer,
now that they will be cooler during the summer and
dryer year-round.

Have you researched it? What kind of numbers do they put out? I'm
truly curious.

The manufacturer of the comp shingles did not provide so
much as a graph. (They know their audience, after all).
They spoke in broad generalities about the destructive
properties of heat and / or humidity to the roof and
decking.

Here is a random rule of thumb from an entirely
different source:
"As shingle degradation is large a function of oxidation,
the rates of this decomposition can be expected to
follow the laws of chemical reactions. Accordingly, if
the average shingle temperature was elevated
by 2°F, the shingle life expectancy might be reduced by 11%."

From:
http://www.dca.state.fl.us/FBC/publi...eportFinal.pdf

Based on the 50 - year warranty for the product we bought
and the essentially unvented character of the attic
space before I installed my three solar power vents,
I suppose that I am all done worrying about roofing!

(...)

Careful, you're making SENSE now...

I suppose it had to happen eventually.....

4) It's a Hobby!

A) Alternative energy is a real interest of mine.
I like participating to some small degree.

Then why didn't you build your own?snicker

I wanted it to work properly without any snags, first thing
out of the box. This old guy is tired enough of clomping
about on the roof.

I think a wind charger would be a *lot* more fun anyway!

5) It's amusing!

A) The same sun that is warming the house is also circulating
lots of air to keep me cool. I like the dichotomy.

B) The sadists that re-roofed this place have *not* won.
I am no longer boiling in my own juices during the
summer months. I like that.

What color roofing did you choose?

SWMBO is the aesthetic in the family. She chose a blend
of colors that tend toward the (cough) um. dark.

Elsewhere in the literature, I see that a naturally ventilated
attic should only experience a temperature rise of about 3 F
going from white to black shingles, so perhaps the world will
not end for that reason.

Mine's beige, the lightest I've
seen locally. I'll likely go white the next time, and I'll seal the
attic and insulate the roof. I need to have all the trees down before
that, though. I spent 3 hours on the roof cleaning yesterday.

In retrospect it would have been wiser for us to have chosen
a lighter color. Oh Well!

C) The garage measures about 500 sq. ft. The fan is rated
for 1200 sq. ft. Overkill is insufficient.

2.4x seems fine to me. I'm calling the photon police. You're using
far too many. Then I'm calling the AGWKers to let them know that
you're venting heated air into the atmosphere, trying to melt the
remaining 1/5th of a glacier that remains on our overheated planet.

Please post to YouTube.


--Winston

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:44:40 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:01:00 -0700,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:51:14 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

For the first time in years, the garage is now cooler
than the air outside.

And why is this more important to you than ~$250?

1) Economy

A) The roofing job on this place cost us $18,000.
(Eighteen Thousand US dollarettes). I know that
the shingles and roof deck will last years longer,
now that they will be cooler during the summer and
dryer year-round.

Have you researched it? What kind of numbers do they put out? I'm
truly curious.

The manufacturer of the comp shingles did not provide so
much as a graph. (They know their audience, after all).
They spoke in broad generalities about the destructive
properties of heat and / or humidity to the roof and
decking.

Yeah. "Warranty void if product exposed to sunlight."
Typical corporate CYA.


Here is a random rule of thumb from an entirely
different source:
"As shingle degradation is large a function of oxidation,
the rates of this decomposition can be expected to
follow the laws of chemical reactions. Accordingly, if
the average shingle temperature was elevated
by 2°F, the shingle life expectancy might be reduced by 11%."

From:
http://www.dca.state.fl.us/FBC/publi...eportFinal.pdf

Based on the 50 - year warranty for the product we bought
and the essentially unvented character of the attic

No gable vents or soffit vents?


space before I installed my three solar power vents,
I suppose that I am all done worrying about roofing!

Cha CHING!


(...)

Careful, you're making SENSE now...

I suppose it had to happen eventually.....

Well, the potential was there, anyway.


4) It's a Hobby!

A) Alternative energy is a real interest of mine.
I like participating to some small degree.

Then why didn't you build your own?snicker

I wanted it to work properly without any snags, first thing

Oh, ye of little faith...


out of the box. This old guy is tired enough of clomping
about on the roof.

I hear that.


I think a wind charger would be a *lot* more fun anyway!

5) It's amusing!

A) The same sun that is warming the house is also circulating
lots of air to keep me cool. I like the dichotomy.

B) The sadists that re-roofed this place have *not* won.
I am no longer boiling in my own juices during the
summer months. I like that.

What color roofing did you choose?

SWMBO is the aesthetic in the family. She chose a blend
of colors that tend toward the (cough) um. dark.

You couldn't sway her with comfort/cost savings, eh?
Can you say PW? gd&r


Elsewhere in the literature, I see that a naturally ventilated
attic should only experience a temperature rise of about 3 F
going from white to black shingles, so perhaps the world will
not end for that reason.

Yabbut, think of the temp rise in the actual shingle to get your 3
degrees through the wood.


Mine's beige, the lightest I've
seen locally. I'll likely go white the next time, and I'll seal the
attic and insulate the roof. I need to have all the trees down before
that, though. I spent 3 hours on the roof cleaning yesterday.

In retrospect it would have been wiser for us to have chosen
a lighter color. Oh Well!

Oh, you didn't know?


C) The garage measures about 500 sq. ft. The fan is rated
for 1200 sq. ft. Overkill is insufficient.

2.4x seems fine to me. I'm calling the photon police. You're using
far too many. Then I'm calling the AGWKers to let them know that
you're venting heated air into the atmosphere, trying to melt the
remaining 1/5th of a glacier that remains on our overheated planet.

Please post to YouTube.

Oh, so you're likin' the infamy, are ya? No, I won't post it.

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:44:40 -0700,
wrote:


(...)

Yeah. "Warranty void if product exposed to sunlight."
Typical corporate CYA.

"Limitations and exclusions apply."

Here is a random rule of thumb from an entirely
different source:
"As shingle degradation is large a function of oxidation,
the rates of this decomposition can be expected to
follow the laws of chemical reactions. Accordingly, if
the average shingle temperature was elevated
by 2°F, the shingle life expectancy might be reduced by 11%."

From:
http://www.dca.state.fl.us/FBC/publi...eportFinal.pdf

Based on the 50 - year warranty for the product we bought
and the essentially unvented character of the attic

No gable vents or soffit vents?

Two gable vents and ~12 rafter - end vents
are all 'gozintas'.
That is on the 'input' side, low on the roof.

You also need a 'comezoutta'. Before the re-roof,
we had full length ridge vents. After the re-roof,
we had a few of these dinky little useless
'eyebrow' vents. No Comezoutta.

Illustration: I was replacing rafter-end-vent
grills on the end of the house opposite the
incoming prevailing wind. Each time I would
pop a grill off, I'd get a face full of hot air
from the attic. Now, that air should have been
exiting out the top of the house instead.
It had nowhere to go, as a practical matter.

space before I installed my three solar power vents,
I suppose that I am all done worrying about roofing!

Cha CHING!

It's one of those 'pay me now or later' things.
I think we covered my reasoning behind the
solar power. You might reasonably say I should
have used some of those wheely turbine deals.

The aesthetics chief would have hit the roof!


(...)

Careful, you're making SENSE now...

I suppose it had to happen eventually.....

Well, the potential was there, anyway.

Your faith is boundless.

4) It's a Hobby!

A) Alternative energy is a real interest of mine.
I like participating to some small degree.

Then why didn't you build your own?snicker

I wanted it to work properly without any snags, first thing

Oh, ye of little faith...

Well *no* faith actually.

out of the box. This old guy is tired enough of clomping
about on the roof.

I hear that.


I think a wind charger would be a *lot* more fun anyway!


(...)

SWMBO is the aesthetic in the family. She chose a blend
of colors that tend toward the (cough) um. dark.

You couldn't sway her with comfort/cost savings, eh?

First I heard of the decision, the shingles were on the roof.
I doubt I could have swayed her with a '3 degree F' argument.

Can you say PW?gd&r

She is SWMBO for a reason.

(...)

Yabbut, think of the temp rise in the actual shingle to get your 3
degrees through the wood.

It's a bunch, I agree.
In looking at the paperwork just now, I found these are
'lifetime' guarantee shingles with 10 years parts and
labor. SWMBO told me the warranty was 50 years.
Not that it matters to either of us!

(Color / heatrise relationship)

Oh, you didn't know?

See above. I suspected, but the aesthetics director made
the call. They look very nice.

(...)

Please post to YouTube.

Oh, so you're likin' the infamy, are ya? No, I won't post it.

I just wanted to hear what 'nonplussed' sounded like
over the phone.



--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
1) Economy
2) Comfort
3) Energy use
4) It's a Hobby!
5) It's amusing
--Winston -- Other than that, I haven't really thought about it.

To complete the profile, do you drive a Honda?

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
1) Economy
2) Comfort
3) Energy use
4) It's a Hobby!
5) It's amusing
--Winston-- Other than that, I haven't really thought about it.

To complete the profile, do you drive a Honda?

Two Toyotas and a Nissan.

How would you approach these issues, Jim?
What are you driving now?

--Winston

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:53:18 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:44:40 -0700,
wrote:


(...)

Yeah. "Warranty void if product exposed to sunlight."
Typical corporate CYA.

"Limitations and exclusions apply."

Here is a random rule of thumb from an entirely
different source:
"As shingle degradation is large a function of oxidation,
the rates of this decomposition can be expected to
follow the laws of chemical reactions. Accordingly, if
the average shingle temperature was elevated
by 2°F, the shingle life expectancy might be reduced by 11%."

From:
http://www.dca.state.fl.us/FBC/publi...eportFinal.pdf

Based on the 50 - year warranty for the product we bought
and the essentially unvented character of the attic

No gable vents or soffit vents?

Two gable vents and ~12 rafter - end vents
are all 'gozintas'.
That is on the 'input' side, low on the roof.

You also need a 'comezoutta'. Before the re-roof,
we had full length ridge vents. After the re-roof,
we had a few of these dinky little useless
'eyebrow' vents. No Comezoutta.

Prayer:
May that roofing company fold before doing more damage.
Amen.


Illustration: I was replacing rafter-end-vent
grills on the end of the house opposite the
incoming prevailing wind. Each time I would
pop a grill off, I'd get a face full of hot air
from the attic. Now, that air should have been
exiting out the top of the house instead.
It had nowhere to go, as a practical matter.

Not a good sign.


space before I installed my three solar power vents,
I suppose that I am all done worrying about roofing!

Cha CHING!

It's one of those 'pay me now or later' things.
I think we covered my reasoning behind the
solar power. You might reasonably say I should
have used some of those wheely turbine deals.

Verily.


The aesthetics chief would have hit the roof!


Bbbut, all the guys in your neighborhood would have followed suit 'cuz
they look neat, all chrome barberstripey and stuff. Besides, who
wears...never mind. titter


(...)

Careful, you're making SENSE now...

I suppose it had to happen eventually.....

Well, the potential was there, anyway.

Your faith is boundless.

Social faith. wink


4) It's a Hobby!

A) Alternative energy is a real interest of mine.
I like participating to some small degree.

Then why didn't you build your own?snicker

I wanted it to work properly without any snags, first thing

Oh, ye of little faith...

Well *no* faith actually.


out of the box. This old guy is tired enough of clomping
about on the roof.

I hear that.


I think a wind charger would be a *lot* more fun anyway!


(...)

SWMBO is the aesthetic in the family. She chose a blend
of colors that tend toward the (cough) um. dark.

You couldn't sway her with comfort/cost savings, eh?

First I heard of the decision, the shingles were on the roof.
I doubt I could have swayed her with a '3 degree F' argument.

Look deeper in that article you linked to. Another guy said 25F
differences were noted. And you're Californicators. Doesn't she
follow the AGWKers? "It's For the Planet!"


Can you say PW?gd&r

She is SWMBO for a reason.

Condolences.


(...)

Yabbut, think of the temp rise in the actual shingle to get your 3
degrees through the wood.

It's a bunch, I agree.
In looking at the paperwork just now, I found these are
'lifetime' guarantee shingles with 10 years parts and
labor. SWMBO told me the warranty was 50 years.
Not that it matters to either of us!

That should have clued you into the roofing scammers. The normal
warranty periods are 20, 25, 30, and a few 40 year. Guys who put 50
year warranties prolly think "Hell, we'll be out of business in 3, why
not up the warranty period? We won't be honoring it anyway."

Hmm, GAF is now putting a lifetime warranty on their Timberline
series. I sit corrected.



(Color / heatrise relationship)

Oh, you didn't know?

See above. I suspected, but the aesthetics director made
the call. They look very nice.

Feh! http://goo.gl/jQIck $1k rebate for "green" shingles?
Would SWMBO still have gone with the prettier stuff, or would she have
been sensible? /rub


(...)

Please post to YouTube.

Oh, so you're likin' the infamy, are ya? No, I won't post it.

I just wanted to hear what 'nonplussed' sounded like
over the phone.

"Minused, sir."

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 06:02:51 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
1) Economy
2) Comfort
3) Energy use
4) It's a Hobby!
5) It's amusing
--Winston-- Other than that, I haven't really thought about it.

To complete the profile, do you drive a Honda?

Two Toyotas and a Nissan.

WHAT? Up there in the SillyCone Valley?
I thought you'd be on a Segway with a Wii sidecar, sir.

--
When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember
and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire.
-- Whoopi Goldberg

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:53:18 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

You also need a 'comezoutta'. Before the re-roof,
we had full length ridge vents. After the re-roof,
we had a few of these dinky little useless
'eyebrow' vents. No Comezoutta.

Prayer:
May that roofing company fold before doing more damage.
Amen.

They and their ilk are going gangbusters.
My next door neighbor just had a re-roof by
another company, indistinguishable from my
sadists. You guessed it. Just a few teeny
little 'eyebrow vents' for the exhaust part.
Doubtlessly, they are sweltering and the
shingles are not long for this world.

Shame on that company, too.

Illustration: I was replacing rafter-end-vent
grills on the end of the house opposite the
incoming prevailing wind. Each time I would
pop a grill off, I'd get a face full of hot air
from the attic. Now, that air should have been
exiting out the top of the house instead.
It had nowhere to go, as a practical matter.

Not a good sign.

"Golly!", I exclaimed. "This cannot be right!"

Or words to that effect.

Yesterday, I noticed lots of hot air coming out
of my solar powered vents near the roof peak.

That's better!

(Wheely turbine deals)
http://www.elproofing.com/roofing/_images/turbine.jpg

The aesthetics chief would have hit the roof!


Bbbut, all the guys in your neighborhood would have followed suit 'cuz
they look neat, all chrome barberstripey and stuff.

Meh. The neighbors across the street had two of them
on the top of their house for years.
They looked awful aesthetically and beautiful,
fluid-dynamically. I haven't looked at their re-roof
to see, but I suspect they are now sweltering just as
we were, because of teeny little eyebrow vents.

Besides, who
wears...never mind.titter

"Macho" is highly overrated.
IMHO. (Feel free to disagree.)

Look deeper in that article you linked to. Another guy said 25F
differences were noted.

In some cases the *surface* of the shingles are
that much hotter. I trust that the stone granules
are up to the task.

And you're Californicators. Doesn't she
follow the AGWKers? "It's For the Planet!"

That's a broad brush there Larry!

SWMBO ain't interested in that stuff.
She stays eerily silent when I say stuff like:
"Of course things are warming up as part of a
natural cycle." and "We are in an interglacial
period; climate change is inevitable."


(...)

Condolences.

Heh! No reason for that.

(...)

That should have clued you into the roofing scammers. The normal
warranty periods are 20, 25, 30, and a few 40 year. Guys who put 50
year warranties prolly think "Hell, we'll be out of business in 3, why
not up the warranty period? We won't be honoring it anyway."

Insurance is fraud.
We get to choose who steals our money and that is it.
With EDD, we don't even get *that* choice.

Hmm, GAF is now putting a lifetime warranty on their Timberline
series. I sit corrected.

Now stop squirming!

(Color / heatrise relationship)

Oh, you didn't know?

See above. I suspected, but the aesthetics director made
the call. They look very nice.

Feh! http://goo.gl/jQIck $1k rebate for "green" shingles?
Would SWMBO still have gone with the prettier stuff, or would she have
been sensible?/rub

The scam is to promise something in large print
and then to deny that thing after the money is spent.

In this case, they admit up-front that:
"Rebate is $20 per square of Timberline® Cool Series shingles
installed, up to $1000." It's gonna be significantly
less for your standard little 'single family detached' and
in reality, zero.

http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residential/Promotions/11_06_24-Timberline-Cool-Series/Documents/Cool-Series-Redemption-Form.pdf

My experience with this kind of 'mail in rebate' has been
dismal. The mail service totally breaks down for those
claims, somehow.



--Winston

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 06:02:51 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Two Toyotas and a Nissan.

WHAT? Up there in the SillyCone Valley?
I thought you'd be on a Segway with a Wii sidecar, sir.

Heh!
Segway face plant? No thank you!

Closest thing I have is a Biontague:
http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx_montague_swiss_bike.htm

Which I love, now that it downshifts when I want it to.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
1) Economy
2) Comfort
3) Energy use
4) It's a Hobby!
5) It's amusing
--Winston-- Other than that, I haven't really thought about it.

To complete the profile, do you drive a Honda?

Two Toyotas and a Nissan.

How would you approach these issues, Jim?
What are you driving now?

--Winston

Supposedly a Honda owner can and will freely give you a long list of purely
logical reasons for buying it.

And yes, I have one.

When I reroofed the carpenter friends who helped suggested adding a mat
ridge vent, so I did. With bright sun, 81.7F in the shade, I just measured
94.6F with a thermocouple stuck up against the plywood inside. The
'charcoal' shingled roof is possible if uncomfortable to sit on.

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:

(...)

Supposedly a Honda owner can and will freely give you a long list of purely
logical reasons for buying it.

That's not the worst personality defect I've ever
heard of.

And yes, I have one.

Good on ya. I like my friend's Odyssey and Civic. Snazzy.

When I reroofed the carpenter friends who helped suggested adding a mat
ridge vent, so I did. With bright sun, 81.7F in the shade, I just measured
94.6F with a thermocouple stuck up against the plywood inside. The
'charcoal' shingled roof is possible if uncomfortable to sit on.

I wonder how the 'inside plywood' number compares to the
temperature measured at the surface of the shingles?

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
When I reroofed the carpenter friends who helped suggested adding a mat
ridge vent, so I did. With bright sun, 81.7F in the shade, I just
measured
94.6F with a thermocouple stuck up against the plywood inside. The
'charcoal' shingled roof is possible if uncomfortable to sit on.

I wonder how the 'inside plywood' number compares to the
temperature measured at the surface of the shingles?

--Winston

Lucky for you I have a permanent ladder and steps to the chimney cleaning
platform. Under a shingle was 140F, under the ridge vent mat was 125F. The
IR surface temp reads 145F.

Happy now?

jsw

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:46:06 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:53:18 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

You also need a 'comezoutta'. Before the re-roof,
we had full length ridge vents. After the re-roof,
we had a few of these dinky little useless
'eyebrow' vents. No Comezoutta.

Prayer:
May that roofing company fold before doing more damage.
Amen.

They and their ilk are going gangbusters.
My next door neighbor just had a re-roof by
another company, indistinguishable from my
sadists. You guessed it. Just a few teeny
little 'eyebrow vents' for the exhaust part.
Doubtlessly, they are sweltering and the
shingles are not long for this world.

Shame on that company, too.

Yeah, absolutely shameful.


Illustration: I was replacing rafter-end-vent
grills on the end of the house opposite the
incoming prevailing wind. Each time I would
pop a grill off, I'd get a face full of hot air
from the attic. Now, that air should have been
exiting out the top of the house instead.
It had nowhere to go, as a practical matter.

Not a good sign.

"Golly!", I exclaimed. "This cannot be right!"

Or words to that effect.

Highlighted in clouds of blue, I'm sure.



Bbbut, all the guys in your neighborhood would have followed suit 'cuz
they look neat, all chrome barberstripey and stuff.

Meh. The neighbors across the street had two of them
on the top of their house for years.
They looked awful aesthetically and beautiful,
fluid-dynamically. I haven't looked at their re-roof
to see, but I suspect they are now sweltering just as
we were, because of teeny little eyebrow vents.

Did you pass the word?


Besides, who
wears...never mind.titter

"Macho" is highly overrated.
IMHO. (Feel free to disagree.)

Who am I to flip your skirt, hon?


Look deeper in that article you linked to. Another guy said 25F
differences were noted.

In some cases the *surface* of the shingles are
that much hotter. I trust that the stone granules
are up to the task.

And you're Californicators. Doesn't she
follow the AGWKers? "It's For the Planet!"

That's a broad brush there Larry!

I know. Isn't it wonderful?


SWMBO ain't interested in that stuff.
She stays eerily silent when I say stuff like:
"Of course things are warming up as part of a
natural cycle." and "We are in an interglacial
period; climate change is inevitable."

It's only eerie because you know the thoughts behind the silence.


Insurance is fraud.
We get to choose who steals our money and that is it.
With EDD, we don't even get *that* choice.

Employment Development Department?


Hmm, GAF is now putting a lifetime warranty on their Timberline
series. I sit corrected.

Now stop squirming!

g


(Color / heatrise relationship)

Oh, you didn't know?

See above. I suspected, but the aesthetics director made
the call. They look very nice.

Feh! http://goo.gl/jQIck $1k rebate for "green" shingles?
Would SWMBO still have gone with the prettier stuff, or would she have
been sensible?/rub

The scam is to promise something in large print
and then to deny that thing after the money is spent.

Read the fine print before you buy!


In this case, they admit up-front that:
"Rebate is $20 per square of Timberline® Cool Series shingles
installed, up to $1000." It's gonna be significantly
less for your standard little 'single family detached' and
in reality, zero.

Isn't that north of $400 for a 2,000 s/f house? It saves you 25-30%
on the price of shingles IF you read the fine print correctly. I
believe it says "white only" somewhere in there.


http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residential/Promotions/11_06_24-Timberline-Cool-Series/Documents/Cool-Series-Redemption-Form.pdf

My experience with this kind of 'mail in rebate' has been
dismal.

I've had excellent luck with rebates. But I hate waiting 4 months for
some to return to me.


The mail service totally breaks down for those
claims, somehow.

That's no reason for a smiley face, sir.

Waitaminutehere! Are you dissin' our fine postal service?
BAILIFF,...

--
When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember
and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire.
-- Whoopi Goldberg

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:55:20 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 06:02:51 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Two Toyotas and a Nissan.

WHAT? Up there in the SillyCone Valley?
I thought you'd be on a Segway with a Wii sidecar, sir.

Heh!
Segway face plant? No thank you!

"Segway Rear-ended by Low-Flying Semi" would be worse.


Closest thing I have is a Biontague:
http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx_montague_swiss_bike.htm

Which I love, now that it downshifts when I want it to.

Is the broken one on the right any cheaper? Holy ****, Batman! They
don't give those away, do they? Oh, it's eclectic. That's different.

--
When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember
and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire.
-- Whoopi Goldberg

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:47:21 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:
When I reroofed the carpenter friends who helped suggested adding a mat
ridge vent, so I did. With bright sun, 81.7F in the shade, I just measured
94.6F with a thermocouple stuck up against the plywood inside. The
'charcoal' shingled roof is possible if uncomfortable to sit on.

I wonder how the 'inside plywood' number compares to the
temperature measured at the surface of the shingles?

About 100C lower on a nice day.

--
When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember
and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire.
-- Whoopi Goldberg

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:46:06 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Or words to that effect.

Highlighted in clouds of blue, I'm sure.

Ya.

Bbbut, all the guys in your neighborhood would have followed suit 'cuz
they look neat, all chrome barberstripey and stuff.

Meh. The neighbors across the street had two of them
on the top of their house for years.
They looked awful aesthetically and beautiful,
fluid-dynamically. I haven't looked at their re-roof
to see, but I suspect they are now sweltering just as
we were, because of teeny little eyebrow vents.

Did you pass the word?

Nup. It's complicated.

Besides, who
wears...never mind.titter

"Macho" is highly overrated.
IMHO. (Feel free to disagree.)

Who am I to flip your skirt, hon?

You got something against lesbos, buster?

(...)

That's a broad brush there Larry!

I know. Isn't it wonderful?

As wonderful as any symptom!

SWMBO ain't interested in that stuff.
She stays eerily silent when I say stuff like:
"Of course things are warming up as part of a
natural cycle." and "We are in an interglacial
period; climate change is inevitable."

It's only eerie because you know the thoughts behind the silence.

"Crazy Winston"? I get that a lot.

Insurance is fraud.
We get to choose who steals our money and that is it.
With EDD, we don't even get *that* choice.

Employment Development Department?

Yup. A misnomer if there ever was one.

(...)

The scam is to promise something in large print
and then to deny that thing after the money is spent.

Read the fine print before you buy!

Always a good idea.

In this case, they admit up-front that:
"Rebate is $20 per square of Timberline® Cool Series shingles
installed, up to $1000." It's gonna be significantly
less for your standard little 'single family detached' and
in reality, zero.

Isn't that north of $400 for a 2,000 s/f house?

Yup. Remember how the Large Print touted a $1000 rebate, though?
Those two numbers differ.

It saves you 25-30%
on the price of shingles IF you read the fine print correctly. I
believe it says "white only" somewhere in there.

Could very well be.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...wn-your-soul/1

(...)

I've had excellent luck with rebates. But I hate waiting 4 months for
some to return to me.

Funny definition of 'excellent' there, Larry.


The mail service totally breaks down for those
claims, somehow.

That's no reason for a smiley face, sir.

Waitaminutehere! Are you dissin' our fine postal service?

Well, I am certain that the many fine businesses I've
dealt with couldn't possibly have reneged on their
promises, so all we have left is the USPS, yes?

(I Keed, I keed)

--Winston