Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

Joe

On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

Joe


Is the Patent on the dual saw up? or did HF just rip them off?

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Bogus idea borrowed from the fidiots at Searz.
Keep moving, folks. Nothing to see here.

--
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no
distinctively native American criminal class except Congress.
-- Mark Twain

Randy333 wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

Joe

Is the Patent on the dual saw up? or did HF just rip them off?

Harbor Freight doesn't manufacture anything.

The patent could have expired, or the owner of the patent could have
licensed it to make more money.

"justme" wrote in message
...
Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

See my 5/15 thread, Dual Saw Infomercial.
What's HF charging?

Dudn't really matter, cuz the concept is basically bogus, as someone else
indicated.
Yer better off with a fine-toothed trim saw, or any kind of blade on a 4
1/2" angle grinder.
Or a fine-toothed blade on a 7 1/4" circ saw, which you proly already have.
Heh, or a sawzall.....

Note that there is steel and there is steel. ANY saw will cut corrugated
zinc/steel, or any of that bull**** on the infomercial, ANY carbide blade
will go through nails in 2x4, etc. It's really all in the blade, sfpm
permitting.

There are circular saw blades for cutting real steel plate, but they are
proly very expensive, and proly don't have the longest life, bein as the
sfpm is just all wrong from the gitgo, and this type of stuff is proly just
for field-type necessity stuff..

Also keep this in mind:
Even a top-quality dualsaw-type mechanism is complicated, and *therefore*
of questionable long-term durability, compared to sawzalls, circ saws, etc..
Infomercial/ HF quality certainly aren't going to help durability issue, but
at least with HF, you ain't payin top ripoff dollar.
Bargain or not, you gotta know what to buy from HF and what not to buy.
--
EA


Joe

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Bogus idea borrowed from the fidiots at Searz.

Sears??? I thought Billy Mays invented the dualsaw.... oh, the inventor on
the infomercial....

Did sears rip it off ?


Keep moving, folks. Nothing to see here.

Actually there is a lot to see ito infomercial sleight-of-hand -- but no one
really seems innerested in the details.
I think analyzing those bull**** infomercials are great educations, esp. for
newbies or the unwitting.


--
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no
distinctively native American criminal class except Congress.
-- Mark Twain

Heh, good ole Mark Twain -- a prophet.
--
EA

Thanks, guys.

I didn't see this from an infomercial but H.F. email.

So, I take it that no one has one.

Joe


On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

Joe

"justme" wrote in message
...
Thanks, guys.

I didn't see this from an infomercial but H.F. email.

So, I take it that no one has one.

No one admitted so in my thread, either.
Some inneresting threads on this on alt.home.repair, as well, altho more
bickering than discussion goes on there.

Keep in mind that I routinely cut 1" thick solid alium, up to 3" thick, on a
radial arm saw, with a fine-tooth 10" blade, from HD -- a two or three blade
pack for about $30.
Be aware of the diffs in climb/conventional cutting, and a cupla safety
issues, tho. Best to to cut thick material conventionally, which in a RAS
means pushing in to the material against the stop -- much greater control,
altho you gotta make sure the blade doesn't lift/throw the material.

There is a video of a shop class instructor cutting mebbe 4 or 6" solid alum
with a circular saw.... wow.....

Also, keep in mind, when all else fails, use abrasive blades. Walters makes
wheels for alum grinding, I'm sure there are abrasive blades for alum
cutting. Just like for ceramics, etc.

Bottom line is, imo, the dualsaw is an absolute ripoff, a kind of "pointless
technology".
No one else here seems to get their panties in a bunch the way I do over all
this, but a ripoff is a ripoff, a mind**** is a mind****. All of it is an
outrage, and imo is part and parcel of the Global Economic Ass****ing.
--
EA



Joe


On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

Joe

Existential Angst wrote:
"justme" wrote in message
...
Thanks, guys.

I didn't see this from an infomercial but H.F. email.

So, I take it that no one has one.

No one admitted so in my thread, either.
Some inneresting threads on this on alt.home.repair, as well, altho more
bickering than discussion goes on there.

Guess you didn't see mine then. We have 2 for our FD.
The original inventor designed them for Fire Dept usage. Then discovered
that like every other "new" tool the fire service would rather hold to
tradition than progress...


Keep in mind that I routinely cut 1" thick solid alium, up to 3" thick, on a
radial arm saw, with a fine-tooth 10" blade, from HD -- a two or three blade
pack for about $30.
Be aware of the diffs in climb/conventional cutting, and a cupla safety
issues, tho. Best to to cut thick material conventionally, which in a RAS
means pushing in to the material against the stop -- much greater control,
altho you gotta make sure the blade doesn't lift/throw the material.

There is a video of a shop class instructor cutting mebbe 4 or 6" solid alum
with a circular saw.... wow.....

Also, keep in mind, when all else fails, use abrasive blades. Walters makes
wheels for alum grinding, I'm sure there are abrasive blades for alum
cutting. Just like for ceramics, etc.

Abrasive work well. BUT would you like to be sprayed with a shower of
hot sparks while sitting behind the wheel with a couple broken legs and
maybe an open wound or two?


Bottom line is, imo, the dualsaw is an absolute ripoff, a kind of "pointless
technology".
No one else here seems to get their panties in a bunch the way I do over all
this, but a ripoff is a ripoff, a mind**** is a mind****. All of it is an
outrage, and imo is part and parcel of the Global Economic Ass****ing.


Actually it does the job it was intended for very well. Cutting open a
vehicle with minimal noise and sparks compared to 99% of our normal
tools. It is also MUCH lighter than most other tools used and doesn't
require a lot of extra training to use.
About the only gripe I have with ours is the lube you are supposed to
use between the blades. When the temps climb the stuff likes to get
really sticky and makes it messy. So we generally just use some good
spray on lube, just draw the cut lines on the vehicle with the lube and cut.

--
Steve W.

Steve W.

If you are talking to me then, no, I didn't see your reply.

I am confused Steve, are you saying that your FD has the dual blade
saw and uses it regularly? If so, how does it hold up?

Thanks

Joe

On Thu, 19 May 2011 19:50:37 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Existential Angst wrote:
"justme" wrote in message
...
Thanks, guys.

I didn't see this from an infomercial but H.F. email.

So, I take it that no one has one.

No one admitted so in my thread, either.
Some inneresting threads on this on alt.home.repair, as well, altho more
bickering than discussion goes on there.

Guess you didn't see mine then. We have 2 for our FD.
The original inventor designed them for Fire Dept usage. Then discovered
that like every other "new" tool the fire service would rather hold to
tradition than progress...


Keep in mind that I routinely cut 1" thick solid alium, up to 3" thick, on a
radial arm saw, with a fine-tooth 10" blade, from HD -- a two or three blade
pack for about $30.
Be aware of the diffs in climb/conventional cutting, and a cupla safety
issues, tho. Best to to cut thick material conventionally, which in a RAS
means pushing in to the material against the stop -- much greater control,
altho you gotta make sure the blade doesn't lift/throw the material.

There is a video of a shop class instructor cutting mebbe 4 or 6" solid alum
with a circular saw.... wow.....

Also, keep in mind, when all else fails, use abrasive blades. Walters makes
wheels for alum grinding, I'm sure there are abrasive blades for alum
cutting. Just like for ceramics, etc.

Abrasive work well. BUT would you like to be sprayed with a shower of
hot sparks while sitting behind the wheel with a couple broken legs and
maybe an open wound or two?


Bottom line is, imo, the dualsaw is an absolute ripoff, a kind of "pointless
technology".
No one else here seems to get their panties in a bunch the way I do over all
this, but a ripoff is a ripoff, a mind**** is a mind****. All of it is an
outrage, and imo is part and parcel of the Global Economic Ass****ing.


Actually it does the job it was intended for very well. Cutting open a
vehicle with minimal noise and sparks compared to 99% of our normal
tools. It is also MUCH lighter than most other tools used and doesn't
require a lot of extra training to use.
About the only gripe I have with ours is the lube you are supposed to
use between the blades. When the temps climb the stuff likes to get
really sticky and makes it messy. So we generally just use some good
spray on lube, just draw the cut lines on the vehicle with the lube and cut.

Pete C. wrote:
Randy333 wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

Joe
Is the Patent on the dual saw up? or did HF just rip them off?

Harbor Freight doesn't manufacture anything.

The patent could have expired, or the owner of the patent could have
licensed it to make more money.


Not sure but the "original" was an Australian design. We have two, one
the newer Craftsman unit with the larger motor and blades and the other
is a Duo-Saw. Both work well and the BIG benefit for the Fire Dept is
that they will cut through just about anything on a car without changing
blades. They also generated less heat and sparks so using them on
vehicles is safer than using a normal chop saw. You can take out a side
window then cut though the pillars and glass like butter. Less mess and
safer because the blades are smaller and more controlled than most other
tools.They are also a LOT lighter than most other cutting tools as well.
Quieter as well.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Pete C. wrote:
Randy333 wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:35 -0500, justme wrote:

Does anyone have this 5" Double Cut Saw SKU 68316? If so, what do you
think of it, especially for steel and aluminum? I have other devices
to cut each but it would be nice to have something like this if worth
a flip.

I know that are metal cutting circular saw blades but they are
expensive.

Thanks for any comments.

Joe
Is the Patent on the dual saw up? or did HF just rip them off?

Harbor Freight doesn't manufacture anything.

The patent could have expired, or the owner of the patent could have
licensed it to make more money.


Not sure but the "original" was an Australian design. We have two, one the
newer Craftsman unit with the larger motor and blades and the other is a
Duo-Saw. Both work well and the BIG benefit for the Fire Dept is that they
will cut through just about anything on a car without changing blades.
They also generated less heat and sparks so using them on vehicles is
safer than using a normal chop saw. You can take out a side window then
cut though the pillars and glass like butter. Less mess and safer because
the blades are smaller and more controlled than most other tools.They are
also a LOT lighter than most other cutting tools as well. Quieter as well.

You sound like the infomercial.
None of what you cite is necessarily due to the counterrotation claims. Why
would counterrotation reduce sparks?
It's the net pitch of the blade.
--
EA



--
Steve W.

Thanks, E.A. for your information.

I guess that I will have to spring for another H.F. 14" abrasive chop
saw strictly for aluminum. Then, try a fine toothed blade in my RAS,
too for aluminum.

I did a longitudinal cut in a 5 foot length of 3/4 inch aluminum and I
had the shop doors open and the RAS grabbed that plate and threw it
against the house about 15 feet away with an awful sound when it hit
the brick wall. I just don't have any idea of what it would have do
to my stomach had I been in the way of it. It really taught me a
lesson. Really, this plate shot out of the shop so fast that it was
very scary.

Yes, I never cease to be amazed on what has happened to the world.
It seems, no it really is that everyone is at everyone else's throat.
I am a ham radio operator and years ago, no matter what frequency that
you tuned in on, not a harsh word was ever spoken and the mantra
hamdom was help the other fellow. If he needed a part that you had,
it was his, gratis. I hate to be so negative but due to our lack of
cohesive, we are doomed.

Enough of my rambling.

Thanks for the tips.

Joe


On Thu, 19 May 2011 19:30:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"justme" wrote in message
.. .
Thanks, guys.

I didn't see this from an infomercial but H.F. email.

So, I take it that no one has one.

No one admitted so in my thread, either.
Some inneresting threads on this on alt.home.repair, as well, altho more
bickering than discussion goes on there.

Keep in mind that I routinely cut 1" thick solid alium, up to 3" thick, on a
radial arm saw, with a fine-tooth 10" blade, from HD -- a two or three blade
pack for about $30.
Be aware of the diffs in climb/conventional cutting, and a cupla safety
issues, tho. Best to to cut thick material conventionally, which in a RAS
means pushing in to the material against the stop -- much greater control,
altho you gotta make sure the blade doesn't lift/throw the material.

There is a video of a shop class instructor cutting mebbe 4 or 6" solid alum
with a circular saw.... wow.....

Also, keep in mind, when all else fails, use abrasive blades. Walters makes
wheels for alum grinding, I'm sure there are abrasive blades for alum
cutting. Just like for ceramics, etc.

Bottom line is, imo, the dualsaw is an absolute ripoff, a kind of "pointless
technology".
No one else here seems to get their panties in a bunch the way I do over all
this, but a ripoff is a ripoff, a mind**** is a mind****. All of it is an
outrage, and imo is part and parcel of the Global Economic Ass****ing.

"justme" wrote in message
...
Steve W.

If you are talking to me then, no, I didn't see your reply.

I am confused Steve, are you saying that your FD has the dual blade
saw and uses it regularly? If so, how does it hold up?

Steve needs to do some rationale A/B comparisons with a suitable
equipped/bladed circular saw.
I'll bet the results greatly favor a circular saw.

As far as abrasives/sparks go, sheeit, they DO work for a FD, they should
have spark umbrellas and fire/flash suppressors, no? A Stihl gas-powered
abrasive saws cut through 12x12 ties and 4x4 steel in railroad yards -- I'd
like to see a dual saw do that. Oh, and proly $5 per blade, as well, vs,
what, $50-$100 for a pair of dualsaw blades? Gimme a break.

Now, mebbe there are some rescue advantages to this gadget, altho I sorta
doubt it, but even if there are, that doesn't at all translate into shop
practicality or economy.
--
EA



Thanks

Joe

On Thu, 19 May 2011 19:50:37 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Existential Angst wrote:
"justme" wrote in message
...
Thanks, guys.

I didn't see this from an infomercial but H.F. email.

So, I take it that no one has one.

No one admitted so in my thread, either.
Some inneresting threads on this on alt.home.repair, as well, altho more
bickering than discussion goes on there.

Guess you didn't see mine then. We have 2 for our FD.
The original inventor designed them for Fire Dept usage. Then discovered
that like every other "new" tool the fire service would rather hold to
tradition than progress...


Keep in mind that I routinely cut 1" thick solid alium, up to 3" thick,
on a
radial arm saw, with a fine-tooth 10" blade, from HD -- a two or three
blade
pack for about $30.
Be aware of the diffs in climb/conventional cutting, and a cupla safety
issues, tho. Best to to cut thick material conventionally, which in a
RAS
means pushing in to the material against the stop -- much greater
control,
altho you gotta make sure the blade doesn't lift/throw the material.

There is a video of a shop class instructor cutting mebbe 4 or 6" solid
alum
with a circular saw.... wow.....

Also, keep in mind, when all else fails, use abrasive blades. Walters
makes
wheels for alum grinding, I'm sure there are abrasive blades for alum
cutting. Just like for ceramics, etc.

Abrasive work well. BUT would you like to be sprayed with a shower of
hot sparks while sitting behind the wheel with a couple broken legs and
maybe an open wound or two?


Bottom line is, imo, the dualsaw is an absolute ripoff, a kind of
"pointless
technology".
No one else here seems to get their panties in a bunch the way I do over
all
this, but a ripoff is a ripoff, a mind**** is a mind****. All of it is
an
outrage, and imo is part and parcel of the Global Economic Ass****ing.


Actually it does the job it was intended for very well. Cutting open a
vehicle with minimal noise and sparks compared to 99% of our normal
tools. It is also MUCH lighter than most other tools used and doesn't
require a lot of extra training to use.
About the only gripe I have with ours is the lube you are supposed to
use between the blades. When the temps climb the stuff likes to get
really sticky and makes it messy. So we generally just use some good
spray on lube, just draw the cut lines on the vehicle with the lube and
cut.

justme wrote:
Steve W.

If you are talking to me then, no, I didn't see your reply.

I am confused Steve, are you saying that your FD has the dual blade
saw and uses it regularly? If so, how does it hold up?

Thanks

Joe

Holds up just fine. When we have used it during training it gets used a
LOT more than on a typical call. We will cut the entire roof off, do a
floor access cut, cut through the doors, cut through hoods, Whatever
might come up as a possible use on a call. For actual MVAs we have used
it maybe 10 times. We don't get a lot of calls where you need to cut for
access usually.
For the most part it does as well or better than the normal tools we
would use and it's a LOT faster.
For glass it will cut a LOT faster than something like a glass-master
tool will. With sheet metal and things like A-B-C pillars it is a lot
easier to work with and as fast as the jaws.
We have two of them, one is a newer Craftsman unit with the larger motor
and the other is one of the Duo-Saw units. Both work well as long as you
don't try to overpower the tools. Just like the rest of the gear we use.

--
Steve W.

Existential Angst wrote:
"justme" wrote in message
...
Steve W.

If you are talking to me then, no, I didn't see your reply.

I am confused Steve, are you saying that your FD has the dual blade
saw and uses it regularly? If so, how does it hold up?

Steve needs to do some rationale A/B comparisons with a suitable
equipped/bladed circular saw.
I'll bet the results greatly favor a circular saw.

I have used just about every saw out there. From plain circular saws
through the K-12 and our carbide toothed chain saws.
The twin does as well or better for the tasks we use it for than the
others in a lighter and easier to handle package.

Would I carry it on the roof to cut vent holes? NOPE. I'll take a chain
saw with carbide chain for that.
Would I want it to cut through a concrete silo wall to access a victim
on the other side, Nope I'd grab the hydraulic concrete saw with water
cooling and dust spray.
Would I want to cut through rail or heavy steel with it? NOPE. The K-12
can do that provided there is no real danger of ignition dangers. If
they exist the hydraulic saw gets the job (It's slower cutting than the
abrasive on the 12 but the water spray and lube means no sparks)


As far as abrasives/sparks go, sheeit, they DO work for a FD, they should
have spark umbrellas and fire/flash suppressors, no? A Stihl gas-powered
abrasive saws cut through 12x12 ties and 4x4 steel in railroad yards -- I'd
like to see a dual saw do that. Oh, and proly $5 per blade, as well, vs,
what, $50-$100 for a pair of dualsaw blades? Gimme a break.

Now, mebbe there are some rescue advantages to this gadget, altho I sorta
doubt it, but even if there are, that doesn't at all translate into shop
practicality or economy.


Never said that as a replacement for all your saws it was a good idea.
For us it is a very handy tool.
However it is up to the user to determine that for themselves.

I would bet that if you do any real welding that you have more than an
old 250 amp buzz box?
Or if you do any grinding you have more than one stone or grit of paper.

Same thing with the FD. We have various tools to do jobs.
For instance I can pick a lock, use a shove knife, use the halligan bar,
or hammer the K-tool in place and tear out the lock. All will
remove/defeat the lock. Which is the fastest depends on the lock,
door,and amount of damage done.

As far as the spark shields. Yep we have blankets and shields. However
if you can do the extrication without using them and do it faster and
cleaner, why would you use them??

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:B_iBp.10733
:

I have used just about every saw out there. From plain circular saws
through the K-12 and our carbide toothed chain saws.
The twin does as well or better for the tasks we use it for than the
others in a lighter and easier to handle package.

What I don't understand is this:

Even with a carbide blade, running a blade backwards into the work dulls
it quickly -- it rounds over the cutting edge. With that contraption,
one blade is ALWAYS cutting backwards. Just the friction heating alone
should kill blades quickly.

LLoyd

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"justme" wrote in message
...
Steve W.

If you are talking to me then, no, I didn't see your reply.

I am confused Steve, are you saying that your FD has the dual blade
saw and uses it regularly? If so, how does it hold up?

Steve needs to do some rationale A/B comparisons with a suitable
equipped/bladed circular saw.
I'll bet the results greatly favor a circular saw.

I have used just about every saw out there. From plain circular saws
through the K-12 and our carbide toothed chain saws.
The twin does as well or better for the tasks we use it for than the
others in a lighter and easier to handle package.

Would I carry it on the roof to cut vent holes? NOPE. I'll take a chain
saw with carbide chain for that.
Would I want it to cut through a concrete silo wall to access a victim on
the other side, Nope I'd grab the hydraulic concrete saw with water
cooling and dust spray.
Would I want to cut through rail or heavy steel with it? NOPE. The K-12
can do that provided there is no real danger of ignition dangers. If they
exist the hydraulic saw gets the job (It's slower cutting than the
abrasive on the 12 but the water spray and lube means no sparks)


As far as abrasives/sparks go, sheeit, they DO work for a FD, they should
have spark umbrellas and fire/flash suppressors, no? A Stihl
gas-powered abrasive saws cut through 12x12 ties and 4x4 steel in
railroad yards -- I'd like to see a dual saw do that. Oh, and proly $5
per blade, as well, vs, what, $50-$100 for a pair of dualsaw blades?
Gimme a break.

Now, mebbe there are some rescue advantages to this gadget, altho I sorta
doubt it, but even if there are, that doesn't at all translate into shop
practicality or economy.


Never said that as a replacement for all your saws it was a good idea. For
us it is a very handy tool.
However it is up to the user to determine that for themselves.

I would bet that if you do any real welding that you have more than an old
250 amp buzz box?
Or if you do any grinding you have more than one stone or grit of paper.

Same thing with the FD. We have various tools to do jobs.
For instance I can pick a lock, use a shove knife, use the halligan bar,
or hammer the K-tool in place and tear out the lock. All will
remove/defeat the lock. Which is the fastest depends on the lock, door,and
amount of damage done.

As far as the spark shields. Yep we have blankets and shields. However if
you can do the extrication without using them and do it faster and
cleaner, why would you use them??

Notwithstanding all your points, the dualsaw infomercial is a goddamm
ripoff, a total misrepresentation of its specialized /limited utility.
--
EA

--
Steve W.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Steve W." fired this volley in news:B_iBp.10733
:

I have used just about every saw out there. From plain circular saws
through the K-12 and our carbide toothed chain saws.
The twin does as well or better for the tasks we use it for than the
others in a lighter and easier to handle package.

What I don't understand is this:

Even with a carbide blade, running a blade backwards into the work dulls
it quickly -- it rounds over the cutting edge. With that contraption,
one blade is ALWAYS cutting backwards. Just the friction heating alone
should kill blades quickly.

Don't confuse running a blade backwards (as in installing it backwards in a
table saw, like Ed H referred to in my dual saw thread), and cutting in
climb. In milling, many machinists prefer to cut in climb, depending
depending.

When you plunge cut with a dualsaw, both blades are essentially cutting
conventionally.
But as soon as you move in one direction, one is cutting in climb, and one
is cutting conventionally.
So really, there are TWO cuts proceeding simultaneously.

For what net purpose? I don't really know, other than being the net effect
of cutting with one blade twice as fine as either of the dual saw blades.
Iow, if you put in a sufficiently fine blade in a reg circular saw, you
shouldn't notice any diff ito of grabbing, sparks, etc.
--
EA



LLoyd

"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:


Don't confuse running a blade backwards (as in installing it backwards
in a table saw, like Ed H referred to in my dual saw thread), and
cutting in climb. In milling, many machinists prefer to cut in climb,
depending depending.


I cut conventional or climb as finish demands when milling.

But I get your description; for some reason I forgot that the blades were
counter-rotating. It's really one blade cutting from above the work, and
the other from below -- either pulling or pushing direction of cut.

OK... then that means (in wood, at least) that you _never_ get a clean
cut on the "show side", because you only _ever_ cut down on finished
surfaces (or with a circular saw with one blade "from the bottom"). With
one blade cutting up from the bottom, and the other down from the top,
you never get a finished show edge.

Besides that, the only advantage such a saw would have is that it
wouldn't tend (as badly) to bind in wood that tended to pinch, because of
that HUGE kerf! And, perhaps, that you can cut pulling or pushing, but
I'm not sure I see the advantage to that, at all.

I still don't get it.

LLoyd

On Thu, 19 May 2011 20:26:46 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:B_iBp.10733
:

I have used just about every saw out there. From plain circular saws
through the K-12 and our carbide toothed chain saws.
The twin does as well or better for the tasks we use it for than the
others in a lighter and easier to handle package.

What I don't understand is this:

Even with a carbide blade, running a blade backwards into the work dulls
it quickly -- it rounds over the cutting edge. With that contraption,
one blade is ALWAYS cutting backwards. Just the friction heating alone
should kill blades quickly.

Then there are the matters of the 1/2" wide kerf and the fact that
each blade only gets half the torque from the little motor.

The only good thing I could say about it would be that it's safer to
pull back into the panel to cut backwards.

--
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no
distinctively native American criminal class except Congress.
-- Mark Twain

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:


Don't confuse running a blade backwards (as in installing it backwards
in a table saw, like Ed H referred to in my dual saw thread), and
cutting in climb. In milling, many machinists prefer to cut in climb,
depending depending.


I cut conventional or climb as finish demands when milling.

But I get your description; for some reason I forgot that the blades were
counter-rotating. It's really one blade cutting from above the work, and
the other from below -- either pulling or pushing direction of cut.

OK... then that means (in wood, at least) that you _never_ get a clean
cut on the "show side", because you only _ever_ cut down on finished
surfaces (or with a circular saw with one blade "from the bottom"). With
one blade cutting up from the bottom, and the other down from the top,
you never get a finished show edge.

Besides that, the only advantage such a saw would have is that it
wouldn't tend (as badly) to bind in wood that tended to pinch, because of
that HUGE kerf! And, perhaps, that you can cut pulling or pushing, but
I'm not sure I see the advantage to that, at all.

I still don't get it.

Exactly. A pointlessly wide cut, something I've mentioned a few times
before. Which, afaict, is just wasted power, as what you really want is the
narrowest cut practical, given material constraints, etc.

You don't get it, I don't get it, but apparently assholes are buying these
things left and right.

This is the New Marketing: Add absolutely no value whatsoever to an
existing concept/product, but spin it in such a way so as to be able charge
5-10 TIMES the original price.
And assholes will gobble it right up.
--
EA



LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Steve W." fired this volley in news:B_iBp.10733
:

I have used just about every saw out there. From plain circular saws
through the K-12 and our carbide toothed chain saws.
The twin does as well or better for the tasks we use it for than the
others in a lighter and easier to handle package.

What I don't understand is this:

Even with a carbide blade, running a blade backwards into the work dulls
it quickly -- it rounds over the cutting edge. With that contraption,
one blade is ALWAYS cutting backwards. Just the friction heating alone
should kill blades quickly.

LLoyd

The blades do not have the normal cutting edges on them. Each tooth
actually has dual cutting edges.
They also only have set to one side. The ones we have don't get very hot
in use IF you lube them. The factory wax works good but we use a spray
on product because you don't have to stop to lube the saw.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Steve W." fired this volley in news:B_iBp.10733
:

I have used just about every saw out there. From plain circular saws
through the K-12 and our carbide toothed chain saws.
The twin does as well or better for the tasks we use it for than the
others in a lighter and easier to handle package.

What I don't understand is this:

Even with a carbide blade, running a blade backwards into the work dulls
it quickly -- it rounds over the cutting edge. With that contraption,
one blade is ALWAYS cutting backwards. Just the friction heating alone
should kill blades quickly.

LLoyd

The blades do not have the normal cutting edges on them. Each tooth
actually has dual cutting edges.
They also only have set to one side. The ones we have don't get very hot
in use IF you lube them. The factory wax works good but we use a spray on
product because you don't have to stop to lube the saw.

Funny they don't tell you THAT in the infomercial.
That alone would nix it in my shop, never mind all the other silliness.
--
EA



--
Steve W.

"justme" wrote in message
...
Thanks, E.A. for your information.

I guess that I will have to spring for another H.F. 14" abrasive chop
saw strictly for aluminum. Then, try a fine toothed blade in my RAS,
too for aluminum.

I hate the finish of the cut with an abrasive blade on aluminum. I use a
good carbide blade and cut it on my table saw.


I did a longitudinal cut in a 5 foot length of 3/4 inch aluminum and I
had the shop doors open and the RAS grabbed that plate and threw it
against the house about 15 feet away with an awful sound when it hit
the brick wall.

You have to use sharp blades and replace them as soon as they start to grab.

I just don't have any idea of what it would have do
to my stomach had I been in the way of it. It really taught me a
lesson.

I've got a scar on my gut that looks like a bullet wound.