Note that while I am firmly obliged to proceed with this transaction,
the seller (bank) still has to approve the sale. I hope that they do so.

i

I think most folks here are getting a plat of survey confused with a plat
map.
A plat map is a large map with the size and placement of all parcels in a
(usually) 80 acre area
The county assessor has these.
They will not show your neighbors fence.

A plat of survey is a small map prepared by a licensed surveyor that shows a
particular parcel and any buildings or structures on it. It is very accurate
(.01 ft) and around here costs around $350.
A new one is required for most mortgages.
It will show that your neighbor has put a driveway on your side of the line.
The county or township will probably not have one, but the bank that sold it
might.

Paul K. Dickman

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
On 04/25/2011 11:39 AM, Ignoramus14081 wrote:

I submitted a FOIA request to the village and they will mail me a copy
of the old plat of survey.
Geez, where we are (St. Louis county) they have all the assessor's files
online with a nice web interface. Just type in the property address, and
you get a very rough computerized drawing of the house and property, sales
history, plat book info, tax history, and assessment data.

Jon

"Ignoramus14081" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-25, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:58:13 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Are you going to have a survey done to make shure there
was no enchroachment while the property was unoccupied ?

Definitely get it checked, even if you only do it tourself with a
tape.

Two houses ago, I bought a vacant block to build my house on. I
could not find the survey pegs on one side, so had it re-surveyed to
site the house properly. On the 20 metre/66 feet wide block the
neighbours fence started 19.2 metres at the front and 19.0 at the
back, he tried to acquire about 3 feet of my land. Excuse was that
he used the survey pegs he "found in place", fence was then moved to
correct place. No rear neighbours to be able to check against their
fence as it is parkland.

I left a FOIA request with the village to give me an old plat of
survey.

i

You can probobly do a real rough survey with GPS.
Don't know how accurate they are but should be a
good guestamate.

http://www.gps.gov/applications/survey/

Compare it against the plot you get.

Best Regards
Tom.

wrote:

You're over taxed, Jon.


How so? By having the records online, the county workers don't have
to dig through tons of paper files for every request. my county did it
several years ago, and now need less workers to do the job, and no
backlogs.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

RS at work wrote:

On Apr 25, 8:14 am, rangerssuck wrote:
On Apr 25, 9:44 am, Ignoramus14081 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.

14081.invalid wrote:
The yard is fenced, and the fence looks pretty old.

i-

The existing fence is no substitute for a survey. I had a dispute with
a neighbor (a genuine asshole) about our property line. His survey
company came and staked it out and found that the fence, which was
shown on my survey map and the one before mine, going back to the mid
1960s, was two feet on my side of the line.

He got to rent a concrete saw to remove his encroaching driveway. I
got to pay for a permit for the fence which, according to the municpal
building department, had never been permitted. I should have taken
this to the title insurance company, but it didn't seem worth the 40
bucks.


Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.


Tell that to the state of Florida. My garage was built in '64, and
they recently sent me a letter that I have to tear part of it down
because it's a couple inches across the line.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they state
where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf

On 2011-04-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

RS at work wrote:

On Apr 25, 8:14 am, rangerssuck wrote:
On Apr 25, 9:44 am, Ignoramus14081 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.

14081.invalid wrote:
The yard is fenced, and the fence looks pretty old.

i-

The existing fence is no substitute for a survey. I had a dispute with
a neighbor (a genuine asshole) about our property line. His survey
company came and staked it out and found that the fence, which was
shown on my survey map and the one before mine, going back to the mid
1960s, was two feet on my side of the line.

He got to rent a concrete saw to remove his encroaching driveway. I
got to pay for a permit for the fence which, according to the municpal
building department, had never been permitted. I should have taken
this to the title insurance company, but it didn't seem worth the 40
bucks.


Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.


Tell that to the state of Florida. My garage was built in '64, and
they recently sent me a letter that I have to tear part of it down
because it's a couple inches across the line.


That's because your use of 2 inches was not "notorious".

i

Josepi wrote:
Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they
state where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf

No, it exists. A neighbor of mine made a garden on the (vacant) land
next to his. Later, when the land was sold and to be built on, my
neighbor got possession of the part that he had gardened on. By adverse
possession. Look it up in Wikipedia.

Bob

On 2011-04-26, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Josepi wrote:
Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they
state where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf

No, it exists. A neighbor of mine made a garden on the (vacant) land
next to his. Later, when the land was sold and to be built on, my
neighbor got possession of the part that he had gardened on. By adverse
possession. Look it up in Wikipedia.

Bob

How did he document having a garden during the required period of
time?

i

rangerssuck wrote:
On Apr 25, 9:44 am, Ignoramus14081ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14081.invalid wrote:

The yard is fenced, and the fence looks pretty old.

i-

The existing fence is no substitute for a survey. I had a dispute with
a neighbor (a genuine asshole) about our property line. His survey
company came and staked it out and found that the fence, which was
shown on my survey map and the one before mine, going back to the mid
1960s, was two feet on my side of the line.

He got to rent a concrete saw to remove his encroaching driveway. I
got to pay for a permit for the fence which, according to the municpal
building department, had never been permitted. I should have taken
this to the title insurance company, but it didn't seem worth the 40
bucks.

There's more to this story, including the fence contractor who said
that he NEVER works for neighbors (and I can understand why). But the
moral, Iggy, is, Don't rely on a fence that's on a drawing that may or
may not be correct. You'd be better off measuring off the house at a
few points and triangulating with a fiberglass or metal tape.

Even better would be to get some surveying equipment at auction for
pennies on the dollar. I don't know what it takes to get licensed
where you are - I don't think it's a very big deal here in NJ. When
this neighbor crap came up, I called several survey companies, and I
was quoted outrageous prices and a six-week lead time. Nice work if
you can get it.



In the other hand I saw a guy spend over ten thousand dollars to contest
a fence that was one foot out of place. It came out to about 300
dollars per square foot. Now that is expensive real estate.

John

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Josepi wrote:
Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they
state where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf

No, it exists. A neighbor of mine made a garden on the (vacant) land next
to his. Later, when the land was sold and to be built on, my neighbor got
possession of the part that he had gardened on. By adverse possession.
Look it up in Wikipedia.

Bob

Depends on the state you live in, if your neighbor did not pay property
taxes on the land he encroached upon he does not own it. A lot of stuff
on wikiedia regarding law is bull****, a realestate attorney will tell you
what your rights are. I would not go to court depending on what wiki
says the law is.

Best Regards
Tom.

Ignoramus14081 wrote:
On 2011-04-26, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
No, it exists. A neighbor of mine made a garden on the (vacant) land
next to his. Later, when the land was sold and to be built on, my
neighbor got possession of the part that he had gardened on. By adverse
possession. Look it up in Wikipedia.

Bob

How did he document having a garden during the required period of
time?

I'm not sure. But I imagine that over the years that he gardened there
any number of people (family, friends, and neighbors) were witnesses to
the garden. I'm always showing mine and visiting others.

Bob

azotic wrote:

Depends on the state you live in, if your neighbor did not pay property
taxes on the land he encroached upon he does not own it. A lot of stuff
on wikiedia regarding law is bull****, a realestate attorney will tell you
what your rights are. I would not go to court depending on what wiki
says the law is.

I'm not suggesting that Wiki is a legal authority. It was just to give
the idea of what "adverse possession" is.

I'd no more rely on Wiki than I would on your statement that " ...if
your neighbor did not pay property taxes on the land he encroached upon
he does not own it." Actually, I would rely on Wiki more than you, but
that still doesn't say much.

To be clear, he doesn't own it because he encroached upon it. He owns
it because a court degreed that he does. Based upon adverse possession.
If you'll make it worth my time, I'll get copies of the court order and
the deed.

Bob

Josepi wrote:
Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they
state where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf


Except in Pennsylvania. It takes 21 years but it does happen.
happened to a guy on the other side of the valley here. He had a plot
of land that someone else used and after 21 years he layed claim to it
and won.



John

"John" wrote in message
...
Josepi wrote:
Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they
state where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf


Except in Pennsylvania. It takes 21 years but it does happen. happened
to a guy on the other side of the valley here. He had a plot of land
that someone else used and after 21 years he layed claim to it and won.



John

I remember a funny case from when I was a kid. My uncle built a hunting
cabin in the south Jersey pine barrens, thinking it was on state land, for
which he paid a lease fee. The state thought it was their land at the time,
too. g

Anyway, not many years later it was discovered that it was someone else's
private property. So my uncle claimed adverse possession. Since the state,
thinking it was their land, colored the title, under NJ law he only had to
be there for seven years. They waived the back taxes because he had paid a
lease fee to the state, and he wound up owning the whole deal -- four or
five acres, as I recall.

--
Ed Huntress

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
azotic wrote:

Depends on the state you live in, if your neighbor did not pay property
taxes on the land he encroached upon he does not own it. A lot of stuff
on wikiedia regarding law is bull****, a realestate attorney will tell
you
what your rights are. I would not go to court depending on what wiki
says the law is.

I'm not suggesting that Wiki is a legal authority. It was just to give
the idea of what "adverse possession" is.

I'd no more rely on Wiki than I would on your statement that " ...if your
neighbor did not pay property taxes on the land he encroached upon he does
not own it." Actually, I would rely on Wiki more than you, but that still
doesn't say much.

To be clear, he doesn't own it because he encroached upon it. He owns it
because a court degreed that he does. Based upon adverse possession.
If you'll make it worth my time, I'll get copies of the court order and
the deed.

Bob

Exactley, it varies from state to state. Thats why you need a realestate
attorney to determine your ownership rights.

Best Regards
Tom.

I guess I own part of a lot of buildings, especially the ones I worked in.

You must live in a country that hasn't progressed to issuing deeds with
registered land boundaries.

I doubt the court deemed it his because of encroaching. There was another
hardship and logic involved that the judge would have taken into
consideration to rule that one.

I think I own the downtown sidewalks too. Maybe I don't want to shovel
those.
---------------------

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message ...
I'm not suggesting that Wiki is a legal authority. It was just to give
the idea of what "adverse possession" is.

I'd no more rely on Wiki than I would on your statement that " ...if
your neighbor did not pay property taxes on the land he encroached upon
he does not own it." Actually, I would rely on Wiki more than you, but
that still doesn't say much.

To be clear, he doesn't own it because he encroached upon it. He owns
it because a court degreed that he does. Based upon adverse possession.
If you'll make it worth my time, I'll get copies of the court order and
the deed.

Bob

Here is a page I believe is factual to American people's land ownership.

There has to be full disclosure, knowledge and permission. You have to give
the land away.
Our laws in Canada are different. Lawn ownership deeds are registered and
the law. YMMV

---------------
Every state has different laws regarding adverse possession. In general, the
five elements that must be met to have a claim of adverse possession are
that the possession must be:


1. Open and notorious. An adversary must be aware that his land is being
taken. But you don't have to write the landowner, or anything like that.
Your possession must be in a manner that is overt, not covert.
2. Actual and uninterrupted. That means that you actually have possession
and control over the land in question, and that possession is not
interrupted by an adversary.
3. Exclusive. Only you, or people authorized by you, can have possession of
the land in question for the required period of possession (which is 10
years). Courts have ruled that the possession does not have to be absolutely
exclusive, so you will want to discuss your particular situation with an
attorney (see below).
4. Hostile. That means that you treat the land in question as your own, and
defend it against the world. Adverse possession is not created when you have
the permission of the landowner to use his land (so a long-term tenant
cannot claim adverse possession).
5. Made under a claim based in good faith. Those seeking equity must do
equity. So if you acted in bad faith somehow, your claim would be barred.
For example, moving the fence to a position where you knew it didn't belong
would be considered bad faith.

You must have met all five of these elements to qualify for adverse
possession. You have the burden of proving you met each element. You must
have met these elements for the statutory period required in your state. In
most states your title would need to be perfected by a court action

Read mo
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_ad...1KbF7OpBoEvery
state has different laws regarding adverse possession. In general, the five
elements that must be met to have a claim of adverse possession are that the
possession must be:

Ignoramus14081 wrote:

On 2011-04-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

RS at work wrote:

On Apr 25, 8:14 am, rangerssuck wrote:
On Apr 25, 9:44 am, Ignoramus14081 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.

14081.invalid wrote:
The yard is fenced, and the fence looks pretty old.

i-

The existing fence is no substitute for a survey. I had a dispute with
a neighbor (a genuine asshole) about our property line. His survey
company came and staked it out and found that the fence, which was
shown on my survey map and the one before mine, going back to the mid
1960s, was two feet on my side of the line.

He got to rent a concrete saw to remove his encroaching driveway. I
got to pay for a permit for the fence which, according to the municpal
building department, had never been permitted. I should have taken
this to the title insurance company, but it didn't seem worth the 40
bucks.


Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.


Tell that to the state of Florida. My garage was built in '64, and
they recently sent me a letter that I have to tear part of it down
because it's a couple inches across the line.


That's because your use of 2 inches was not "notorious".


I am the third owner of the property. They haven't done a damn thing
with the land for 50 years. They didn't clear out the dead wood, or
maintain the required fire breaks. The land was supposed to be where
the 'Cross Florida Canal was to be built for NASA to transport parts to
the cape from the gulf. The original name of my street was 'Barge',
where a barge across the canal was to be built.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

RS at work wrote:

Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Do you mean "looses," as in "releases," or "sets free,"
-------quote-------
Definitions of loose on the Web:
....
* free: grant freedom to; free from confinement
....
* unleash: turn loose or free from restraint; "let loose mines"; "Loose
terrible plagues upon humanity"
....
* loosen: make loose or looser; "loosen the tension on a rope"
-------/quote-------
or did you simply misspell loses?

Thanks,
Rich

On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:10:32 -0400, "Josepi"
wrote:

Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they state
where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf


Well...not exactly totally true...close...but....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting

United States of America

In the United States, squatting laws vary from state to state and city
to city. For the most part, it is rarely tolerated to any degree for
long, particularly in cities.[60] There have been a few exceptions,
notably in 2002 when the New York City administration agreed to turn
over 11 buildings in the Lower East Side, which had been squatted in, to
an established non-profit, on the condition that the apartments would
later be turned over to the tenants as low-income housing
cooperatives.[61]
[edit] Occupancy issues

Laws based on a contract-ownership interpretation of property make it
easy for deed holders to evict squatters under loitering or trespassing
laws.[31] The situation is more complicated for legal residents who fail
to make rent or mortgage payments, but the result is largely the same.

Most squatting in the US is dependent on law enforcement, and the person
legally considered to be the owner of the property, being unaware of the
occupants. Often, the most important factors in the longevity of squats
in the US are apathy of the owner and the likeliness of neighbors to
call the police. This was not always the case, particularly in the era
of Westward expansion, wherein the federal government specifically
recognized the rights of squatters. For example, see the Preemption Act
of 1841.
[edit] Legal protections

The United States Homestead Act legally recognized the concept of
homesteading and distinguished it from squatting, since it gave
homesteaders permission to occupy unclaimed lands. Additionally, US
states that have a shortage of housing tend to tolerate squatters in
property awaiting redevelopment until the developer is ready to begin
work. However, at that point, the laws tend to be enforced.[citation
needed] The Homestead Act of 1862 was signed by Abraham Lincoln on May
20 and sought to reallocate unsettled land in the West. The law applied
to U.S. citizens and prospective citizens that had never borne arms
against the U.S. government. It required a five-year commitment, during
which time the homesteader had to build a twelve-by-fourteen foot
dwelling, develop the 160-acre (0.65 km2) plot of land allocated, and
generally better the condition of the unsettled property. After five
years of positively contributing to the land, the homesteader could file
for the deed to the property, which entailed sending paperwork to the
General Land Office in Washington, D.C., and from there, "valid claims
were granted patent free and clear".[62] Moreover, there were loopholes
to this law, including provisions made for those serving in the U.S.
military. After the Civil War, Union veterans could deduct time served
in the army from the five-year homesteader requirement.

In common law, through the legally recognized concept of adverse
possession, a squatter can become a bona fide owner of property without
compensation to the owner. Adverse possession is the process by which
one acquires the title to a piece of land by occupying it for the number
of years necessary, dictated differently in practice by each state's
statute of limitation for an eviction action. A necessary component of
this transfer of ownership requires that the landowner is aware (or
should be aware) of the land occupation[citation needed] and does
nothing to put an end to it. If the land use by the new occupant goes
unchecked for the said number of years, the new occupant can claim legal
rights to the title of the land. The occupant must show that the
"possession is actual, open, notorious, exclusive, hostile, under cover
of claim or right, and continuous and uninterrupted for the statutory
period."[63] As Erin Wiegand notes, the most difficult part of claiming
adverse possession on the part of squatters is the continuous part.
Squatting is a very transient lifestyle and many are evicted on a
frequent basis.[64] In an article regarding recent foreclosures in the
United States, a current squatter in Miami stated of her housing, "It's
a beautiful castle and it's temporary for me, if I can be here
twenty-four hours, I'm thankful."[65] Thus, while adverse possession
allows for the legality of a squatter's situation, it is not common that
a person can claim continuous possession of the land long enough to
claim title by adverse possession.
[edit] Types

Squats used for living in can be divided into two types (although they
are not absolutes): so-called "back-window squats" (the most common
type[citation needed], in which occupants sneak in and out of the
building with the intent of hiding that they live there) and "front-door
squats" (where the occupants make little or no effort to conceal their
comings and goings). Many squats may start out as one or the other and
then change over time. Frequently, squatters will move in and then later
assess how open they can be about their activities before they approach
the neighbors; others will not move into a place until they have first
met and discussed the idea with the neighbors. The difference between
the two types can be signs of vast differences in philosophies of
squatting and its purpose, how long the occupants plan to be around, and
on the atmosphere of the neighborhood, among many other factors.

Squatters can be young people living in punk houses or low-income or
homeless people.
[edit] Non-profit advocacy

There are non-profit advocacy groups in existence in many cities
throughout the U.S. These groups give organizational backing and
political power to the plight of squatters. The nonprofits also assist
the squatters to have the work on improving their apartments
legitimized, or approved by the appropriate local authority. In New York
City, the Urban Homesteading Assistance Board was at the forefront of a
homesteading movement in the 1970s and 1980s, and more recently liaised
with the city to legitimize the efforts of squatters in 11 buildings in
the Lower East Side.[61] Although the New York City government had
previously forcibly removed many squatters in the 1990s, in 2002 it
agreed to sell these 11 buildings for $1 each to UHAB. The buildings
were to be brought up to code by the squatters (with UHAB's assistance)
and then the apartments were bought for $250 each and the buildings
converted to affordable cooperatives by the former squatters.[61]

Take Back the Land is a Miami-based self-proclaimed housing liberation
group that formed in 2006. They break into vacant, unused bank-owned
foreclosed homes and move homeless people inside.[65] Take Back the Land
organized a shantytown called the Umoja Village to squat a vacant lot in
2006 and 2007.[66]

A group called Homes Not Jails advocates squatting houses to end the
problem of homelessness. It has opened "about 500 houses, 95% of which
have lasted six months or less. In a few cases, [these] squats have
lasted for two, three or even six years."[27]

In Minnesota, a group known as the Poor People's Economic Human Rights
Campaign has relocated families into thirteen empty properties, and one
national organizer likened the advocacy and service work of her group to
"a modern-day underground railroad".[65]
[edit] Movement

In addition to these advocacy groups, there are a number of useful
websites that provide squatters with information on how to go about
setting up a squat.

Squat!net is an internationally contributed-to website that provides
squatters with tips on how to squat and possible open properties on
which to do it.

Additionally, some squatters use the internet as a safe space in which
to share information. An Australian-based community of squatters,
SquatSpace, developed a comprehensive website after being forced
underground with the eviction of the Broadway Squats in South Sydney.
The website features anonymous postings of squatter art exhibits and
protests in the Sydney area and provides a virtual space for those
without a physical community space. There are also numerous squatter
blogs and blogs about how to squat, including one from author Robert
Neuwirth.
[edit] California Gold Rush

In January 1848, two weeks after being ceded to the United States, gold
was discovered in California resulting in a flood of fortune seekers
gravitating to the state in the following months and years. Due to the
ambiguity of existing laws regarding squatting on federal land,
individual mining camps developed squatting laws to fill the legal void.
Policies relating to abandonment and work requirements were established
on a camp-by-camp basis. As extraction became more capital-intensive,
the share of mining camps that allowed a company to own land increased
significantly.
[edit] New York City

In New York City, homeless people squatting in underground spaces such
as Freedom Tunnel have come to be known as Mole People. They were the
subject of an award-winning documentary called Dark Days.

It is estimated that in the 1990s, there were between 500 and 1,000
squatters occupying 32 buildings on Manhattan's Lower East Side. The
buildings had been abandoned as a result of speculation by owners or
police raids as part of a crackdown on drug use.[67] As the area became
gentrified, the squats were evicted, Dos Blockos being one. Three
buildings on 13th Street were evicted without notification following a
prolonged legal battle in which the squatters argued through their
lawyer Stanley Cohen that they were entitled to ownership of the
buildings through adverse possession since they had lived there since
1983.[68]

In 1995, a preliminary injunction had been granted against the eviction
plans, but this was overturned by state appellate.[69]

Despite squatting being illegal, artists had begun to squat buildings to
live in and use as atelier space[clarification needed]. European
squatters coming to New York brought ideas of cooperative living with
them such as a bar, support between squats, and tool exchange.[31]

In 2002, eleven squats out of the twelve remaining on the Lower East
Side signed a deal with the city council brokered by the Urban
Homesteading Assistance Board. In this project, UHAB bought the
buildings for $1 each and agreed to assist the squatters to undertake
essential renovation work, after which their apartments could be bought
for $250 each. UHAB would also train them in running low-income
limited-equity housing cooperatives.[67] After prices peaked from the
housing boom, several of the squatters told press that they wanted out
of the contract so they could be allowed to sell their units at market
rate prices. No such arrangements have been made, but some squatters are
challenging the contract and believe adverse possession protects their
ownership claim.[70]

The first squat to completed co-op conversion in May 2009 is Bullet
Space, an artists' gallery and residence.[71] Another is C-Squat; as
well as social center ABC No Rio, which was founded in 1980.


--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

This all makes sense but these examples are not "squatter's rights" as they
do not have any.

The example all appear to be donated land space and labeled "Squatting"

I cut'n pasted a website text in a previous text that defines the US laws.
It claims for all states.

It has to be voluntarily given away.

----------------------
Well...not exactly totally true...close...but....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting

United States of America

In the United States, squatting laws vary from state to state and city
to city. For the most part, it is rarely tolerated to any degree for
long, particularly in cities.[60] There have been a few exceptions,
notably in 2002 when the New York City administration agreed to turn
over 11 buildings in the Lower East Side, which had been squatted in, to
an established non-profit, on the condition that the apartments would
later be turned over to the tenants as low-income housing
cooperatives.[61]
[edit] Occupancy issues

Laws based on a contract-ownership interpretation of property make it
easy for deed holders to evict squatters under loitering or trespassing
laws.[31] The situation is more complicated for legal residents who fail
to make rent or mortgage payments, but the result is largely the same.

Most squatting in the US is dependent on law enforcement, and the person
legally considered to be the owner of the property, being unaware of the
occupants. Often, the most important factors in the longevity of squats
in the US are apathy of the owner and the likeliness of neighbors to
call the police. This was not always the case, particularly in the era
of Westward expansion, wherein the federal government specifically
recognized the rights of squatters. For example, see the Preemption Act
of 1841.
[edit] Legal protections

long details snipped

On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:07:44 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

azotic wrote:

Depends on the state you live in, if your neighbor did not pay property
taxes on the land he encroached upon he does not own it. A lot of stuff
on wikiedia regarding law is bull****, a realestate attorney will tell you
what your rights are. I would not go to court depending on what wiki
says the law is.

I'm not suggesting that Wiki is a legal authority. It was just to give
the idea of what "adverse possession" is.

I'd no more rely on Wiki than I would on your statement that " ...if
your neighbor did not pay property taxes on the land he encroached upon
he does not own it." Actually, I would rely on Wiki more than you, but
that still doesn't say much.

To be clear, he doesn't own it because he encroached upon it. He owns
it because a court degreed that he does. Based upon adverse possession.
If you'll make it worth my time, I'll get copies of the court order and
the deed.

This just happened to my neighbors across the street. The witch below
them had been gardening WITH my neighbor for awhile and then started
tying her mule nearby, on the flat there. Eventually, she put up a
portable fence. Then one year, she took them to court to steal the
land. It had only been about 9.5 years but the witch had people lie in
court for her and won the land, almost half an acre. The witch's
husband's large company had supported the judge in the action and the
judge should have recused herself, but she didn't, so it didn't stop
the $50k land grab/rape of my neighbors. We're all still stunned.

Those squatter rights laws should have been phased out 100 years ago.

--
Make up your mind to act decidedly and take the consequences.
No good is ever done in this world by hesitation.
-- Thomas H. Huxley

On 2011-04-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:07:44 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

azotic wrote:

Depends on the state you live in, if your neighbor did not pay property
taxes on the land he encroached upon he does not own it. A lot of stuff
on wikiedia regarding law is bull****, a realestate attorney will tell you
what your rights are. I would not go to court depending on what wiki
says the law is.

I'm not suggesting that Wiki is a legal authority. It was just to give
the idea of what "adverse possession" is.

I'd no more rely on Wiki than I would on your statement that " ...if
your neighbor did not pay property taxes on the land he encroached upon
he does not own it." Actually, I would rely on Wiki more than you, but
that still doesn't say much.

To be clear, he doesn't own it because he encroached upon it. He owns
it because a court degreed that he does. Based upon adverse possession.
If you'll make it worth my time, I'll get copies of the court order and
the deed.

This just happened to my neighbors across the street. The witch below
them had been gardening WITH my neighbor for awhile and then started
tying her mule nearby, on the flat there. Eventually, she put up a
portable fence. Then one year, she took them to court to steal the
land. It had only been about 9.5 years but the witch had people lie in
court for her and won the land, almost half an acre. The witch's
husband's large company had supported the judge in the action and the
judge should have recused herself, but she didn't, so it didn't stop
the $50k land grab/rape of my neighbors. We're all still stunned.

Those squatter rights laws should have been phased out 100 years ago.


I remember this story, it ****es me off to this date. What do you mean
by supported, do you mean a campaign contribution or something else?

i

On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 10:53:26 -0500, Ignoramus7326
wrote:

On 2011-04-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:07:44 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

azotic wrote:

Depends on the state you live in, if your neighbor did not pay property
taxes on the land he encroached upon he does not own it. A lot of stuff
on wikiedia regarding law is bull****, a realestate attorney will tell you
what your rights are. I would not go to court depending on what wiki
says the law is.

I'm not suggesting that Wiki is a legal authority. It was just to give
the idea of what "adverse possession" is.

I'd no more rely on Wiki than I would on your statement that " ...if
your neighbor did not pay property taxes on the land he encroached upon
he does not own it." Actually, I would rely on Wiki more than you, but
that still doesn't say much.

To be clear, he doesn't own it because he encroached upon it. He owns
it because a court degreed that he does. Based upon adverse possession.
If you'll make it worth my time, I'll get copies of the court order and
the deed.

This just happened to my neighbors across the street. The witch below
them had been gardening WITH my neighbor for awhile and then started
tying her mule nearby, on the flat there. Eventually, she put up a
portable fence. Then one year, she took them to court to steal the
land. It had only been about 9.5 years but the witch had people lie in
court for her and won the land, almost half an acre. The witch's
husband's large company had supported the judge in the action and the
judge should have recused herself, but she didn't, so it didn't stop
the $50k land grab/rape of my neighbors. We're all still stunned.

Those squatter rights laws should have been phased out 100 years ago.


I remember this story, it ****es me off to this date. What do you mean
by supported, do you mean a campaign contribution or something else?

I don't recall what the connection/support was, but it still feels
vewwy vewwy hinky.

--
Make up your mind to act decidedly and take the consequences.
No good is ever done in this world by hesitation.
-- Thomas H. Huxley

On Apr 26, 11:53*am, Ignoramus7326
wrote:
On 2011-04-26, Larry Jaques wrote:





On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:07:44 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

azotic wrote:

Depends on the state you live in, if your neighbor did not pay property
taxes on the land he encroached upon he does not own it. A lot of stuff
on wikiedia regarding law is bull****, a realestate attorney will tell you
what your rights are. I would not go to court depending on what wiki
says the law is.

I'm not suggesting that Wiki is a legal authority. *It was just to give
the idea of what "adverse possession" is.

I'd no more rely on Wiki than I would on your statement that " ...if
your neighbor did not pay property taxes on the land he encroached upon
he does not own it." *Actually, I would rely on Wiki more than you, but
that still doesn't say much.

To be clear, he doesn't own it because he encroached upon it. *He owns
it because a court degreed that he does. *Based upon adverse possession.
If you'll make it worth my time, I'll get copies of the court order and
the deed.

This just happened to my neighbors across the street. *The witch below
them had been gardening WITH my neighbor for awhile and then started
tying her mule nearby, on the flat there. Eventually, she put up a
portable fence. Then one year, she took them to court to steal the
land. It had only been about 9.5 years but the witch had people lie in
court for her and won the land, almost half an acre. The witch's
husband's large company had supported the judge in the action and the
judge should have recused herself, but she didn't, so it didn't stop
the $50k land grab/rape of my neighbors. *We're all still stunned.

Those squatter rights laws should have been phased out 100 years ago.

I remember this story, it ****es me off to this date. What do you mean
by supported, do you mean a campaign contribution or something else?

i-

And THAT is why elected judges are such a bad idea. Not that appointed
judges are much better, but at least in that case, the judge is not
getting direct contributions.

On 2011-04-26, John wrote:
Josepi wrote:
Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they
state where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf


Except in Pennsylvania. It takes 21 years but it does happen.
happened to a guy on the other side of the valley here. He had a plot
of land that someone else used and after 21 years he layed claim to it
and won.

What happened, did the owner not know about it?

i

Ignoramus14859 wrote:
On 2011-04-26, wrote:
Josepi wrote:
Baloney!

Governments issue property deed in the last few hundred years and they
state where the boundaries exist.

North America has not honoured "Squatters Rights" in a few centuries. It
never existed in Canada, period.

You are listening to old wives tales from the 16th century.
--------------
"RS at work" wrote in message
...
Often if an encroachment has existed for several years the person
being encroached upon just looses the property under adverse
possession.

Roger Shoaf


Except in Pennsylvania. It takes 21 years but it does happen.
happened to a guy on the other side of the valley here. He had a plot
of land that someone else used and after 21 years he layed claim to it
and won.

What happened, did the owner not know about it?

i

I think the property was land locked and the owner never bothered to
inspect it. In PA you can get a right of way into a landlocked property
but it takes time and money and a lawyer to gain a right of way. I
guess he didn't have one.

By the way adverse possession was created in PA to help the land get
settled way back when William Penn acquired ownership.

John

In article ,
John wrote:

By the way adverse possession was created in PA to help the land get
settled way back when William Penn acquired ownership.

It's standard enough in the New England states, at least, that it
probably comes down from English law. And it applies in the 21st
century- you can find long discussions of it in the 20th century if you
dredge up the right books, and it's not about some olde outdated
practice. In part, it is one way to avoid the loss of use of tracts that
are held by negligent absentee owners. You have to be fairly negligent
to not notice that someone has been using your land for 20 years.

20 (or 21, in Pa, perhaps) years, continuous, and it has to be ADVERSE
possession. Some idiots have tried crap like "the caretaker (employee)
claiming to own the cottage/camp he caretakes and is permitted to live
at" - nope. Not only don't you get the place, you get fired after more
than 20 years and you won't be getting a good recommendation, either. If
the owner gives permission to use the property, possession is not
adverse, and it doesn't matter how many years. Evidence of possession
varies, but things like maintaining a fence, or the garden that was
mentioned earlier - active use of the land, documented, without
permission, and maintained for 20 years.

http://www.massrealestatelawblog.com...ences-make-ups
et-neighbors-adverse-possession-in-massachusetts/

Heck, in Iowa it's a mere 10 years:

http://www.calt.iastate.edu/millsvrobinson.html

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

A better link (more complete listing of various states' laws/time
periods - some of which are QUITE short.)

http://www.lawchek.com/resources/forms/que/advposs.htm

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by