Useless eaters beware !!!!!



Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.
He has already been appointed to two key positions: health-policy adviser at
the Office of Management and Budget and a member of Federal Council on
Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Emanuel believes that "communitarianism" should guide decisions on who gets
care. He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not
given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming
participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health
services to patients with dementia" (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).

Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and
consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on
somebody else.

Translation: Don't give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson's or a
child with cerebral palsy.

Emanuel sees even basic amenities as luxuries and says Americans expect too
much: "Hospital rooms in the United States offer more privacy . . .
physicians' offices are typically more conveniently located and have parking
nearby and more attractive waiting rooms" (JAMA, June 18, 2008).

Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, agrees. He recommends
slowing medical innovation to control health spending.

Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls, though he
concedes they're "associated with longer waits" and "reduced availability of
new and expensive treatments and devices" (New England Journal of Medicine,
March 8, 2001). But he calls it "debatable" whether the timely care
Americans get is worth the cost. (Ask a cancer patient, and you'll get a
different answer. Delay lowers your chances of survival.)

Obama appointed Blumenthal as national coordinator of health-information
technology, a job that involves making sure doctors obey electronically
deivered guidelines about what care the government deems appropriate and
cost effective.

In the April 9 New England Journal of Medicine, Blumenthal predicted that
many doctors would resist "embedded clinical decision support" -- a
euphemism for computers telling doctors what to do.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009...941.htm?page=0

Best Regards

Tom.

azotic wrote:
Useless eaters beware !!!!!



Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm
Emanuel. He has already been appointed to two key positions:
health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget and a
member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Emanuel believes that "communitarianism" should guide decisions on
who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the
non-disabled, not given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from
being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is
not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia" (Hastings
Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).

Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and
consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better
spent on somebody else.

Translation: Don't give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson's
or a child with cerebral palsy.

Emanuel sees even basic amenities as luxuries and says Americans
expect too much: "Hospital rooms in the United States offer more
privacy . . . physicians' offices are typically more conveniently
located and have parking nearby and more attractive waiting rooms"
(JAMA, June 18, 2008).

Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, agrees. He recommends
slowing medical innovation to control health spending.

Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls,
though he concedes they're "associated with longer waits" and
"reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices"
(New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001). But he calls it
"debatable" whether the timely care Americans get is worth the cost.
(Ask a cancer patient, and you'll get a different answer. Delay
lowers your chances of survival.)

Obama appointed Blumenthal as national coordinator of
health-information technology, a job that involves making sure
doctors obey electronically deivered guidelines about what care the
government deems appropriate and cost effective.

In the April 9 New England Journal of Medicine, Blumenthal predicted
that many doctors would resist "embedded clinical decision support"
-- a euphemism for computers telling doctors what to do.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009...941.htm?page=0

Best Regards


Top Five Health Care Reform Lies
Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!

The truth: These accusations-of "death panels" and forced euthanasia-are, of
course, flatly untrue. As an article from the Associated Press puts it: "No
'death panel' in health care bill."4 What's the real deal? Reform
legislation includes a provision, supported by the AARP, to offer senior
citizens access to a professional medical counselor who will provide them
with information on preparing a living will and other issues facing older
Americans.5


Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force you into a
government plan!!!

The truth: With reform, choices will increase, not decrease. Obama's reform
plans will create a health insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping
marketplace for affordable, high-quality insurance options.6 Included in the
exchange is the public health insurance option-a nationwide plan with a
broad network of providers-that will operate alongside private insurance
companies, injecting competition into the market to drive quality up and
costs down.7

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But the
new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or individuals
who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health
care now.


Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!!!


The truth: Health care reform will expand access to high-quality health
insurance, and give individuals, families, and businesses more choices for
coverage. Right now, big corporations decide whether to give you coverage,
what doctors you get to see, and whether a particular procedure or medicine
is covered-that is rationed care. And a big part of reform is to stop that.


Health care reform will do away with some of the most nefarious aspects of
this rationing: discrimination for pre-existing conditions, insurers that
cancel coverage when you get sick, gender discrimination, and lifetime and
yearly limits on coverage.9 And outside of that, as noted above, reform will
increase insurance options, not force anyone into a rationed situation.


Lie #4: Obama is secretly plotting to cut senior citizens' Medicare
benefits!!!

The truth: Health care reform plans will not reduce Medicare benefits.10
Reform includes savings from Medicare that are unrelated to patient care-in
fact, the savings comes from cutting billions of dollars in overpayments to
insurance companies and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse.11

Lie #5: Obama's health care plan will bankrupt America!!!

The truth: We need health care reform now in order to prevent bankruptcy-to
control spiraling costs that affect individuals, families, small businesses,
and the American economy.

Right now, we spend more than $2 trillion dollars a year on health care.12
The average family premium is projected to rise to over $22,000 in the next
decade13-and each year, nearly a million people face bankruptcy because of
medical expenses.14 Reform, with an affordable, high-quality public option
that can spur competition, is necessary to bring down skyrocketing costs.
Also, President Obama's reform plans would be fully paid for over 10 years
and not add a penny to the deficit.15

--
John R. Carroll

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
azotic wrote:
Useless eaters beware !!!!!



Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm
Emanuel. He has already been appointed to two key positions:
health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget and a
member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Emanuel believes that "communitarianism" should guide decisions on
who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the
non-disabled, not given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from
being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is
not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia" (Hastings
Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).

Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and
consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better
spent on somebody else.

Translation: Don't give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson's
or a child with cerebral palsy.

Emanuel sees even basic amenities as luxuries and says Americans
expect too much: "Hospital rooms in the United States offer more
privacy . . . physicians' offices are typically more conveniently
located and have parking nearby and more attractive waiting rooms"
(JAMA, June 18, 2008).

Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, agrees. He recommends
slowing medical innovation to control health spending.

Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls,
though he concedes they're "associated with longer waits" and
"reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices"
(New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001). But he calls it
"debatable" whether the timely care Americans get is worth the cost.
(Ask a cancer patient, and you'll get a different answer. Delay
lowers your chances of survival.)

Obama appointed Blumenthal as national coordinator of
health-information technology, a job that involves making sure
doctors obey electronically deivered guidelines about what care the
government deems appropriate and cost effective.

In the April 9 New England Journal of Medicine, Blumenthal predicted
that many doctors would resist "embedded clinical decision support"
-- a euphemism for computers telling doctors what to do.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009...941.htm?page=0

Best Regards


Top Five Health Care Reform Lies
Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!

The truth: These accusations-of "death panels" and forced euthanasia-are,
of
course, flatly untrue. As an article from the Associated Press puts it:
"No
'death panel' in health care bill."4 What's the real deal? Reform
legislation includes a provision, supported by the AARP, to offer senior
citizens access to a professional medical counselor who will provide them
with information on preparing a living will and other issues facing older
Americans.5


Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force you into
a
government plan!!!

The truth: With reform, choices will increase, not decrease. Obama's
reform
plans will create a health insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping
marketplace for affordable, high-quality insurance options.6 Included in
the
exchange is the public health insurance option-a nationwide plan with a
broad network of providers-that will operate alongside private insurance
companies, injecting competition into the market to drive quality up and
costs down.7

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But
the
new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or
individuals
who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health
care now.


Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!!!


The truth: Health care reform will expand access to high-quality health
insurance, and give individuals, families, and businesses more choices for
coverage. Right now, big corporations decide whether to give you coverage,
what doctors you get to see, and whether a particular procedure or
medicine
is covered-that is rationed care. And a big part of reform is to stop
that.


Health care reform will do away with some of the most nefarious aspects of
this rationing: discrimination for pre-existing conditions, insurers that
cancel coverage when you get sick, gender discrimination, and lifetime and
yearly limits on coverage.9 And outside of that, as noted above, reform
will
increase insurance options, not force anyone into a rationed situation.


Lie #4: Obama is secretly plotting to cut senior citizens' Medicare
benefits!!!

The truth: Health care reform plans will not reduce Medicare benefits.10
Reform includes savings from Medicare that are unrelated to patient
care-in
fact, the savings comes from cutting billions of dollars in overpayments
to
insurance companies and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse.11

Lie #5: Obama's health care plan will bankrupt America!!!

The truth: We need health care reform now in order to prevent
bankruptcy-to
control spiraling costs that affect individuals, families, small
businesses,
and the American economy.

Right now, we spend more than $2 trillion dollars a year on health care.12
The average family premium is projected to rise to over $22,000 in the
next
decade13-and each year, nearly a million people face bankruptcy because of
medical expenses.14 Reform, with an affordable, high-quality public option
that can spur competition, is necessary to bring down skyrocketing costs.
Also, President Obama's reform plans would be fully paid for over 10 years
and not add a penny to the deficit.15

--
John R. Carroll



And you trust these people? You know, the ones that got caught for not
paying taxes, the ones that made all these campaign promises to get elected
then thumbed their noses? You choose to blindly believe your lefty
heroes...I don't and I'm not alone. More than half of the public ain't
buying into it. Your Utopia isn't all that wonderful after all.

Now, you have to come back and defend them by citing Bush and Republican
mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But Bush...but
Bush...but Bush!!!

On Aug 11, 8:30*pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:


Top Five Health Care Reform Lies
Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!

The truth: These accusations-of "death panels" and forced euthanasia-are, of
course, flatly untrue. As an article from the Associated Press puts it: "No
'death panel' in health care bill."4 What's the real deal? Reform
legislation includes a provision, supported by the AARP, to offer senior
citizens access to a professional medical counselor who will provide them
with information on preparing a living will and other issues facing older
Americans.5

A professional medical counselor will not do anything that will affect
anyones health. Therefore it should not be required to be covered by
insurance. It will just increase the cost of insurance and provide no
health benefit.



Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force you into a
government plan!!!

The truth: With reform, choices will increase, not decrease. Obama's reform
plans will create a health insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping
marketplace for affordable, high-quality insurance options.6 Included in the
exchange is the public health insurance option-a nationwide plan with a
broad network of providers-that will operate alongside private insurance
companies, injecting competition into the market to drive quality up and
costs down.7

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But the
new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or individuals
who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health
care now.

If the government plan is subsidized by the government, it will be
more attractive to have than private insurance. And private insurance
will disappear. If the government plan is not subsidized by the
government, it will be just as expensive as what we already have and
which many can not afford.

Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!!!

The truth: Health care reform will expand access to high-quality health
insurance, and give individuals, families, and businesses more choices for
coverage. Right now, big corporations decide whether to give you coverage,
what doctors you get to see, and whether a particular procedure or medicine
is covered-that is rationed care. And a big part of reform is to stop that.

wrote in message
...
On Aug 11, 8:30 pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:

snip

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But
the
new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or
individuals
who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health
care now.


If the government plan is subsidized by the government, it will be
more attractive to have than private insurance. And private insurance
will disappear. If the government plan is not subsidized by the
government, it will be just as expensive as what we already have and
which many can not afford.

I didn't read this whole post, Dan, but this point is demonstrably
incorrect. Right now we have Medicare co-existing with at least two types of
private insurance ("Medicare supplemental" and full-blown PPOs that pick up
where Medicare leaves off; and some well-off people have a private plan that
completely duplicates and supercedes Medicare.)

And if private insurance should eventually disappear, boo-hoo. It's a foul
institution as it is.

--
Ed Huntress

On Aug 12, 7:05*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 11, 8:30 pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:

snip

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But
the
new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or
individuals
who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health
care now.

If the government plan is subsidized by the government, it will be
more attractive to have than private insurance. *And private insurance
will disappear. *If the government plan is not subsidized by the
government, it will be just as expensive as what we already have and
which many can not afford.

I didn't read this whole post, Dan, but this point is demonstrably
incorrect. Right now we have Medicare co-existing with at least two types of
private insurance ("Medicare supplemental" and full-blown PPOs that pick up
where Medicare leaves off; and some well-off people have a private plan that
completely duplicates and supercedes Medicare.)

And if private insurance should eventually disappear, boo-hoo. It's a foul
institution as it is.

--
Ed Huntress

In this case you are flat wrong. Medicare does not co-exist with any
plan that competes with it. The two types of plans that are for
ordinary people are supplements and do not compete toe to toe with
Medicare. So your point is demonstrably incorrect.

Let me know when you find a plan that I can choose and not pay
anything for medicare. And let me know how to file for all the money
I paid into Medicare.
I might not have paid into Medicare if you had pointed out that I had
a choice of another plan.

You bias to eliminate private insurance is noted.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 7:05 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 11, 8:30 pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:

snip

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But
the
new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or
individuals
who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford
health
care now.

If the government plan is subsidized by the government, it will be
more attractive to have than private insurance. And private insurance
will disappear. If the government plan is not subsidized by the
government, it will be just as expensive as what we already have and
which many can not afford.

I didn't read this whole post, Dan, but this point is demonstrably
incorrect. Right now we have Medicare co-existing with at least two types
of
private insurance ("Medicare supplemental" and full-blown PPOs that pick
up
where Medicare leaves off; and some well-off people have a private plan
that
completely duplicates and supercedes Medicare.)

And if private insurance should eventually disappear, boo-hoo. It's a foul
institution as it is.

--
Ed Huntress

In this case you are flat wrong. Medicare does not co-exist with any
plan that competes with it. The two types of plans that are for
ordinary people are supplements and do not compete toe to toe with
Medicare. So your point is demonstrably incorrect.

No, that's not right, Dan. The Medicare Advantage plans compete with
Medicare. They get the Medicare funds, in fact, if you opt for them. And
those plans include an HMO-type of managed-care plan; a private
fee-for-service plan; a PPO; or a specialty plan.

These compete directly with Medicare. If you opt for one of them, Medicare
pays the private insurer to provide the equivalent of your Medicare
coverage, which remains as a sort of base-level coverage, but which is now
provided by the private insurer. And you still have to pay your Medicare
Part B, which is transferred to the private insurer.

There also is direct competition over Medicare Part D, which is directly
competitive with many employer-provided pharma plans for retirees. Many
people, like my wife's family, stayed with their retirement plans rather
than go to Part D coverage.

Let me know when you find a plan that I can choose and not pay
anything for medicare.

See above.

And let me know how to file for all the money
I paid into Medicare.

If you have a Medicare Advantage plan, your money went to the private
insurer. Medicare transfers it to them.

I might not have paid into Medicare if you had pointed out that I had
a choice of another plan.

See above.

You bias to eliminate private insurance is noted.

"Bias"? Hell, private health insurance is a license to steal. I do have a
bias against thieves. The only way you can keep them from stealing you blind
is to regulate the hell out of them.

--
Ed Huntress

Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
azotic wrote:
Useless eaters beware !!!!!




And you trust these people?

I don't really trust any of them completely Tom. That's why I try and verify
whatever statements I see, hear or read.
What I'm finding is that the health-care naysayer's are complete fabricators
in a lot of instances and that includes some of the most senior people in
our government. Guys like Mitch McConnell and John Boehner. There is alos a
genuine effort underway to convert a policy battle into a moral one.


You know, the ones that got caught for
not paying taxes, the ones that made all these campaign promises to
get elected then thumbed their noses? You choose to blindly believe
your lefty heroes

I don't really have any heroes Tom, "leftie" or otherwise.
I outgrew them in about the third grade or so like most people.

I don't and I'm not alone. No, you aren't alone but you are certainly part
of a shrinking minority. The reason for that is that you've been pittiably
wrong so many times on so many issues. Even when you get it right you can't
get any traction.

More than half of the public ain't buying into it.

I don't know a single person that doesn't think our public heath-care system
and the function of private industry don't need a complete overhaul.

Your Utopia isn't all that wonderful
after all.

Utopia? LOL
Listen, every century or so America's version of capitalism falls right on
it's ass. It has again.
The real difference in America is that we have always treated such times as
a new beginning, not THE END.


Now, you have to come back and defend them by citing Bush and
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This will
happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

--
John R. Carroll

wrote:
On Aug 11, 8:30 pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:


Top Five Health Care Reform Lies
Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!

The truth: These accusations-of "death panels" and forced
euthanasia-are, of course, flatly untrue. As an article from the
Associated Press puts it: "No 'death panel' in health care bill."4
What's the real deal? Reform legislation includes a provision,
supported by the AARP, to offer senior citizens access to a
professional medical counselor who will provide them with
information on preparing a living will and other issues facing older
Americans.5

A professional medical counselor will not do anything that will affect
anyones health. Therefore it should not be required to be covered by
insurance. It will just increase the cost of insurance and provide no
health benefit.

That's a real argument. The fact remains, however, that there are no "Death
Panels" in any version of any reform bill under consideration.




Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force
you into a government plan!!!

The truth: With reform, choices will increase, not decrease. Obama's
reform plans will create a health insurance exchange, a one-stop
shopping marketplace for affordable, high-quality insurance
options.6 Included in the exchange is the public health insurance
option-a nationwide plan with a broad network of providers-that will
operate alongside private insurance companies, injecting competition
into the market to drive quality up and costs down.7

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8
But the new public plan will expand choices to millions of
businesses or individuals who choose to opt into it, including many
who simply can't afford health care now.

If the government plan is subsidized by the government, it will be
more attractive to have than private insurance.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. IThis will depend a lot on what's covered.


And private insurance will disappear.

I doubt it. It's extremely unlikely that private health insurers will walk
away from such a large pool of cash.
You just don't know what it will look like. Neither do I but that is for the
industry to deal with.


Health care reform will do away with some of the most nefarious
aspects of this rationing: discrimination for pre-existing
conditions, insurers that cancel coverage when you get sick, gender
discrimination, and lifetime and yearly limits on coverage.9 And
outside of that, as noted above, reform will increase insurance
options, not force anyone into a rationed situation.

If the nefarious aspects as you term them are eliminated, healthcare
insurance will be more expensive. Bound to happen if yearly and
lifetime limits are eliminated.

The practices referred to are things like rescission. That, basically, is
legalized denial of care after collecting premiums.
The industry term is "Loss Prevention" and large bonus payments and big
salaries go to those that "prevent losses" succesfully and in sufficient
volume.


--
John R. Carroll

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
azotic wrote:
Useless eaters beware !!!!!




And you trust these people?

I don't really trust any of them completely Tom. That's why I try and
verify
whatever statements I see, hear or read.
What I'm finding is that the health-care naysayer's are complete
fabricators
in a lot of instances and that includes some of the most senior people in
our government. Guys like Mitch McConnell and John Boehner. There is alos
a
genuine effort underway to convert a policy battle into a moral one.


You know, the ones that got caught for
not paying taxes, the ones that made all these campaign promises to
get elected then thumbed their noses? You choose to blindly believe
your lefty heroes

I don't really have any heroes Tom, "leftie" or otherwise.
I outgrew them in about the third grade or so like most people.

I don't and I'm not alone. No, you aren't alone but you are certainly part
of a shrinking minority. The reason for that is that you've been pittiably
wrong so many times on so many issues. Even when you get it right you
can't
get any traction.

More than half of the public ain't buying into it.

I don't know a single person that doesn't think our public heath-care
system
and the function of private industry don't need a complete overhaul.

Your Utopia isn't all that wonderful
after all.

Utopia? LOL
Listen, every century or so America's version of capitalism falls right on
it's ass. It has again.
The real difference in America is that we have always treated such times
as
a new beginning, not THE END.


Now, you have to come back and defend them by citing Bush and
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This will
happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

--
John R. Carroll



Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's simple, cap
"pain and suffering" and other litigation reform especially malpractice and
defensive medicine, standardize insurance forms, prevent premature release
from hospitals, legislate portability and eliminate "preexisting condition
problems, eliminate "emergency room" as primary by extending
Medicare/Medicaid net for the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that sounds
like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are exempt.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This will
happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's simple, cap
"pain and suffering" and other litigation reform especially malpractice and
defensive medicine, standardize insurance forms, prevent premature release
from hospitals, legislate portability and eliminate "preexisting condition
problems, eliminate "emergency room" as primary by extending
Medicare/Medicaid net for the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that sounds
like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in the
first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be competing
the way the car insurance companies are now.

And why insurance for piddly crap and routine checkups? You wouldn't
expect your car insurance to pay for an oil change, or your household
insurance to pay to repaint your houwe, would you?

Thanks,
Rich

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This
will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize insurance
forms, prevent premature release from hospitals, legislate
portability and eliminate "preexisting condition problems, eliminate
"emergency room" as primary by extending Medicare/Medicaid net for
the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that
sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are
exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in
the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.


That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!


--
John R. Carroll



Actually that is what happens now, unless you have massive assets and self
insure. No assets? Just because it is against the law, there is no
penalty. They take away your POS vehicle license plates. It's not worth
the yearly insurance premium. When I got hit in Mississippi years ago, they
said I was lucky. Only 30% of the vehicle had insurance. I happened to get
hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

On Aug 12, 7:08*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in messagenews:OoGdnUUAVfHT1B7XnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@gigan ews.com...



Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. *But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This
will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. *It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize insurance
forms, prevent premature release from hospitals, legislate
portability and eliminate "preexisting condition problems, eliminate
"emergency room" as primary by extending Medicare/Medicaid net for
the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that
sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are
exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in
the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.

That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!

--
John R. Carroll

Actually that is what happens now, unless you have massive assets and self
insure. *No assets? *Just because it is against the law, there is no
penalty. *They take away your POS vehicle license plates. *It's not worth
the yearly insurance premium. *When I got hit in Mississippi years ago, they
said I was lucky. *Only 30% of the vehicle had insurance. *I happened to get
hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This
will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize insurance
forms, prevent premature release from hospitals, legislate
portability and eliminate "preexisting condition problems, eliminate
"emergency room" as primary by extending Medicare/Medicaid net for
the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that
sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are
exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in
the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.


That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!


--
John R. Carroll

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 7:08 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in
messagenews:OoGdnUUAVfHT1B7XnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@gigan ews.com...



Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This
will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize insurance
forms, prevent premature release from hospitals, legislate
portability and eliminate "preexisting condition problems, eliminate
"emergency room" as primary by extending Medicare/Medicaid net for
the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that
sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are
exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in
the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.

That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!

--
John R. Carroll

Actually that is what happens now, unless you have massive assets and self
insure. No assets? Just because it is against the law, there is no
penalty. They take away your POS vehicle license plates. It's not worth
the yearly insurance premium. When I got hit in Mississippi years ago,
they
said I was lucky. Only 30% of the vehicle had insurance. I happened to get
hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do.
But Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions.
This will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize
insurance forms, prevent premature release from hospitals,
legislate portability and eliminate "preexisting condition
problems, eliminate "emergency room" as primary by extending
Medicare/Medicaid net for the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable
that sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they
are exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in
the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.


That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!


--
John R. Carroll



Actually that is what happens now, unless you have massive assets and
self insure.

You can't register a vehicle in CA without electronically verifiable proof
of insurance.
Period, and they don't take only your car, they take you.


No assets? Just because it is against the law, there
is no penalty. They take away your POS vehicle license plates. It's
not worth the yearly insurance premium. When I got hit in
Mississippi years ago,

Hey, it's Mississippi. Shoe's would be an epiphany to those hicks.
Just look at Haley Barbour.


--
John R. Carroll


Actually was in Biloxi, which was a fairly upscale, gaming area.

Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
azotic wrote:
Useless eaters beware !!!!!




And you trust these people?

I don't really trust any of them completely Tom. That's why I try and
verify
whatever statements I see, hear or read.
What I'm finding is that the health-care naysayer's are complete
fabricators
in a lot of instances and that includes some of the most senior
people in our government. Guys like Mitch McConnell and John
Boehner. There is alos a
genuine effort underway to convert a policy battle into a moral one.


You know, the ones that got caught for
not paying taxes, the ones that made all these campaign promises to
get elected then thumbed their noses? You choose to blindly believe
your lefty heroes

I don't really have any heroes Tom, "leftie" or otherwise.
I outgrew them in about the third grade or so like most people.

I don't and I'm not alone. No, you aren't alone but you are
certainly part
of a shrinking minority. The reason for that is that you've been
pittiably wrong so many times on so many issues. Even when you get
it right you can't
get any traction.

More than half of the public ain't buying into it.

I don't know a single person that doesn't think our public heath-care
system
and the function of private industry don't need a complete overhaul.

Your Utopia isn't all that wonderful
after all.

Utopia? LOL
Listen, every century or so America's version of capitalism falls
right on it's ass. It has again.
The real difference in America is that we have always treated such
times as
a new beginning, not THE END.


Now, you have to come back and defend them by citing Bush and
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This
will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

--
John R. Carroll



Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine,

Bunch of doctors in Hawaii got together and instead of insurance, hired a
litigation team.
They never lost a case and in the end, no contingent fee firm would file
for a defendant if these guys were going to be defendants.
The problem with malpractice is that insurance companies settle the cases
and then just raise rates. It's cheaper - for them,because it isn't their
money.

The problem with doctors looks a lot like the problem with you.
You talk a lot about principals but won't defend them and you are both
ignorantly trying to wish a failed version of capitalism back to reality.
Good luck.

Financial services are trying on your model right now. They haven.t had to
restate the value of their assets to the market because of a rule change.
2010/2011/2012 and 2013 are going to be the Quad of bank failures throughout
the industry because the rerality of bad paper will come due. Uncle, BTW,
won't put up as much as another thin dime and you and your bud's will be
reversing yourself aanc crying for another round of bail outs. I'll find
that extremely humorous given your stated prognosis to date.

Finally, some famous bank robber once said he robbed banks for a living
because that was where the money was.
The money in health-care isn't in litigation or settlements.



standardize insurance
forms,

I think that is part of all of the drafts.
With electronic records, every physician involved in a particuler patients
treatment would have immediate access to any tests done or other data.
Duplication, in theory, would be eliminated.

prevent premature release from hospitals, legislate
portability and eliminate "preexisting condition problems,


That is all wrapped up in the current draft legislation Tom.

eliminate
"emergency room" as primary by extending Medicare/Medicaid net for
the poor.


Hey, I'd have let Gunner die.
We agree, at least, on that.


The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand

The failure to jump in and roll up ones sleeves is what Republitards have
done.
The job is there.
They are more concerned with who gets credit than with actually doing
someting for their country.

a timetable that
sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are
exempt.

That, like much of the BS you post, doesn't even make sense and I read it
three times.


--
John R. Carroll

Calif Bill wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do.
But Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions.
This will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize
insurance forms, prevent premature release from hospitals,
legislate portability and eliminate "preexisting condition
problems, eliminate "emergency room" as primary by extending
Medicare/Medicaid net for the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable
that sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they
are exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in
the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.


That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!


--
John R. Carroll



Actually that is what happens now, unless you have massive assets and
self insure.

You can't register a vehicle in CA without electronically verifiable proof
of insurance.
Period, and they don't take only your car, they take you.


No assets? Just because it is against the law, there
is no penalty. They take away your POS vehicle license plates. It's
not worth the yearly insurance premium. When I got hit in
Mississippi years ago,

Hey, it's Mississippi. Shoe's would be an epiphany to those hicks.
Just look at Haley Barbour.


--
John R. Carroll

Calif Bill wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do.
But Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions.
This will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize
insurance forms, prevent premature release from hospitals,
legislate portability and eliminate "preexisting condition
problems, eliminate "emergency room" as primary by extending
Medicare/Medicaid net for the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable
that sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they
are exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion
in the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.


That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!


--
John R. Carroll



Actually that is what happens now, unless you have massive assets
and self insure.

You can't register a vehicle in CA without electronically verifiable
proof of insurance.
Period, and they don't take only your car, they take you.


No assets? Just because it is against the law, there
is no penalty. They take away your POS vehicle license plates.
It's not worth the yearly insurance premium. When I got hit in
Mississippi years ago,

Hey, it's Mississippi. Shoe's would be an epiphany to those hicks.
Just look at Haley Barbour.


--
John R. Carroll


Actually was in Biloxi, which was a fairly upscale, gaming area.

Gamy, not "gaming.
The only game in Biloxi is you and the predator's are mosquitoes.
Been there, done that.

--
John R. Carroll

On Aug 12, 8:01*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"rangerssuck" wrote in message

...
On Aug 12, 7:08 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:



"John R. Carroll" wrote in
messagenews:OoGdnUUAVfHT1B7XnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@gigan ews.com...

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
Buerste wrote:
Republican mistakes thus justifying anything the Democrats do. But
Bush...but Bush...but Bush!!!

Why?
The Dems and Returds will have to justify their own positions. This
will happen at the polls Tom.
As for Dubya, he's gone and he's got his own lock on excellent
health-care.
The rest of us, including you, have to live with the carnage and
bellyaching
about that won't solve a thing.

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's
simple, cap "pain and suffering" and other litigation reform
especially malpractice and defensive medicine, standardize insurance
forms, prevent premature release from hospitals, legislate
portability and eliminate "preexisting condition problems, eliminate
"emergency room" as primary by extending Medicare/Medicaid net for
the poor.

The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that
sounds like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are
exempt.

The current "healthcare" mess was caused by government intrusion in
the first place.

With a true Free Market, the health insurance companies would be
competing the way the car insurance companies are now.

That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.
Car insurance is MANDATED by most States you dumb ass.
The "Libertarian" version of this would actually be fair. You'd buy
insurance if you had assets and were collectable.
Otherwise, you just wouldn't.
I like it!

--
John R. Carroll

Actually that is what happens now, unless you have massive assets and self
insure. No assets? Just because it is against the law, there is no
penalty. They take away your POS vehicle license plates. It's not worth
the yearly insurance premium. When I got hit in Mississippi years ago,
they
said I was lucky. Only 30% of the vehicle had insurance. I happened to get
hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. *Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

Medicaid is a joint federal/state program. California receives plenty
of my federal tax dollars to fund indigent care.

http://www.kff.org/statepolicy/uploa...t-a-Glance.pdf
--
Meanwhile, DSH payments, which are supplemental Medicaid payments to
aid hospitals serving a disproportionate share of indigent patients,
represented about 5 percent of total spending on services. In FY 2004,
California will receive an estimated $1.03 billion in federal DSH
funds.
....
MEDI-CAL IS FINANCED BY THE STATE AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
Medi-Cal is administered by the California Department of Health
Services and county human services offices and jointly financed by the
state and the federal government. California’s federal matching rate,
known as the federal medical assistance percentage (FMAP), is 50
percent, meaning for every $1 the state spends on Medi-Cal the state
receives $1 of federal matching funds.
--
Gunner is costing us all. And he doesn't pay taxes.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:18:39 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

Healthcare needs reform, don't trust Democrats to do it. It's simple, cap
"pain and suffering" and other litigation reform especially malpractice and
defensive medicine, standardize insurance forms, prevent premature release
from hospitals, legislate portability and eliminate "preexisting condition
problems, eliminate "emergency room" as primary by extending
Medicare/Medicaid net for the poor.

Hear, hear!


The Democrats' need to stifle discussion and demand a timetable that sounds
like a bad used car sales pitch and I wonder why they are exempt.

Those exemptions say it all, don't they? Their retirement plan is a
bit rich, too, don't you think? (100% for life after a single term in
office)

--
Seen on a bumper sticker:

STOP THE INVASION
REOCCUPY MEXICO

This is classic. The article is called "Britons defend their health
care from US criticism" and the last paragraph reads:

"British officials acknowledge that their system has been struggling to cope
and faces a 15 billion pound ($24 billion) deficit. Hospitals are often
overcrowded, dirty and understaffed, which means some patients do not get
the care they are promised."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/...us_health_care

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

Along with the health care of 12 million Illegal Aliens..another group
of well taken care of people. And Liberals.

Since I have a Matricula Consular card, and am a self declared
Liberal...Im covered nicely in California. So why do so many people
bitch about me, a white guy who used to be a Conservative, taking
advantage of the long established Free Medical for those with Matricula
Consular cards and a Liberal?

Doesnt make sense. Maybe its because Im a gun owner? Or self employed?

Whats up with da anyways?

Gunner

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

Along with the health care of 12 million Illegal Aliens..another group
of well taken care of people. And Liberals.

The good news is that the US Census for 2010 will _include_ all
illegal aliens in the total, giving CA more votes. sigh
http://tinyurl.com/nmvz32 WMJ 'Unconstitutional Census' 8/10/09

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

no, not correct - if you have insurance, you are paying for Gunner's health
care at least when it in't covered because his hostpital/doctor spread the
cost onto your bill

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:27:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

Along with the health care of 12 million Illegal Aliens..another group
of well taken care of people. And Liberals.

The good news is that the US Census for 2010 will _include_ all
illegal aliens in the total, giving CA more votes. sigh
http://tinyurl.com/nmvz32 WMJ 'Unconstitutional Census' 8/10/09


It will include ALL illegals who admit to who they are, what they are,
and how many people are actually living in the house...to a stranger
with a note book/clipboard

Which is a small minority

Gunner

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:59:38 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

no, not correct - if you have insurance, you are paying for Gunner's health
care at least when it in't covered because his hostpital/doctor spread the
cost onto your bill


Along with the bills from 12 million illegal aliens. Which is ok
according to most Dems..so mine is nothing to worry about.


'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:17:31 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:27:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

Along with the health care of 12 million Illegal Aliens..another group
of well taken care of people. And Liberals.

The good news is that the US Census for 2010 will _include_ all
illegal aliens in the total, giving CA more votes. sigh
http://tinyurl.com/nmvz32 WMJ 'Unconstitutional Census' 8/10/09


It will include ALL illegals who admit to who they are, what they are,
and how many people are actually living in the house...to a stranger
with a note book/clipboard

Which is a small minority

I heard they'll be wearing "Yo No Soy de la Migra, Soy de la
Gobernmiento, y Estoy Aqui por Ayudarse" tee shirts this time. That's
gotta help, huh?

(Pardon my español. I had 2 years in high school many moons ago.)

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:18:52 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:59:38 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

no, not correct - if you have insurance, you are paying for Gunner's health
care at least when it in't covered because his hostpital/doctor spread the
cost onto your bill


Along with the bills from 12 million illegal aliens. Which is ok
according to most Dems..so mine is nothing to worry about.

The only difference I see is that you're -legal- here and -you- are
actually paying back the bills you ran up.

Minor issues, huh? Effin' Demonrats, anyway.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

On Aug 16, 9:32*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:18:52 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:



On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:59:38 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. *Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

no, not correct - if you have insurance, you are paying for Gunner's health
care at least when it in't covered because his hostpital/doctor spread the
cost onto your bill

Along with the bills from 12 million illegal aliens. *Which is ok
according to most Dems..so mine is nothing to worry about.

The only difference I see is that you're -legal- here and -you- are
actually paying back the bills you ran up. *

Minor issues, huh? *Effin' Demonrats, anyway.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. * * * * * * * *-- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

Actually paying back? When? How much? Post links to images of cleared
checks, please. Last time this came up, Gunner claimed to be a
"liberal" and, as such, entitled to free health care.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Aug 16, 9:32 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:18:52 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:



On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:59:38 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a
turn.

Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance,
and we pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured
motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not
paying for Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans
Hospital.

no, not correct - if you have insurance, you are paying for
Gunner's health care at least when it in't covered because his
hostpital/doctor spread the cost onto your bill

Along with the bills from 12 million illegal aliens. Which is ok
according to most Dems..so mine is nothing to worry about.

The only difference I see is that you're -legal- here and -you- are
actually paying back the bills you ran up.

Minor issues, huh? Effin' Demonrats, anyway.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to
the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the
power to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

Actually paying back? When? How much? Post links to images of cleared
checks, please. Last time this came up, Gunner claimed to be a
"liberal" and, as such, entitled to free health care.

Larry lives in his own fantasy world.


--
John R. Carroll

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:16:08 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:58 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

hit in the rear by one of those while I was stopped making a turn.
Don't know about other states, but NJ has "no fault" insurance, and we
pay a surcharge to cover us against "uninsured motorists."

Meanwhile, we ALL are paying for Gunner's "free" health care.

Actually, unless you are a California taxpayer, you are not paying for
Gunners health care. Unless he was in a Veterans Hospital.

Along with the health care of 12 million Illegal Aliens..another group
of well taken care of people. And Liberals.

The good news is that the US Census for 2010 will _include_ all
illegal aliens in the total, giving CA more votes. sigh
http://tinyurl.com/nmvz32 WMJ 'Unconstitutional Census' 8/10/09

It will give them more congressmen than they deserve, but the illegals
still aren't supposed to be voting.