I'm thinking about going down to either Charlotte, NC for the "South Pack"
packaging event held in March or maybe up to Eastec (MA) in May. Neither
will be full fledged business trips for me but I would certainly check them
out if I'm near there to see if anything met my business needs.

I noticed a few months ago while in Atlanta at a similar show that some
attendees get in free with passes from exhibitors... As much as I generally
dislike these huge events, there are times when I find myself located near
one and will fill a day browsing for the heck of it. I simply don't want to
have to pay for a ticket I may or may not use and because it's not a
business "need" I don't want to pay for it out of my business funds. In
Atlanta, I made some good business contacts and felt no remorse about paying
for the event but at some, it's simply a waste of funds...

Other than me being a cheap-arse, are there any ideas or thoughts out there
for me on this? I'm wondering if any of you ever received these free passes
and how did you get them or get on the list to receive them?

I know there is no legitimate metalworking content here, but the trade shows
are something that a lot of us attend, etc. There, of course is no
"rec.crafts.metalworking.tradeshows" newsgroup either so this is the most
legitimate group I could think of to post to other than maybe harassing the
folks over at alt.machines.cnc. grin

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

Other than me being a cheap-arse, are there any ideas or thoughts out
there for me on this? I'm wondering if any of you ever received these
free passes and how did you get them or get on the list to receive them?

Do you have any suppliers that exhibit at the show? If so ask if they have
any
"guest passes" available. Or you might become a "temporary employee" of
the exhibitor and get a pass that way. You pretty much have to know
somebody
to get a freebie to a trade show but it's not all that hard.

Do you have any suppliers that exhibit at the show? If so ask if they
have any
"guest passes" available. Or you might become a "temporary employee" of
the exhibitor and get a pass that way. You pretty much have to know
somebody
to get a freebie to a trade show but it's not all that hard.

That's about what I figured... Might have to look at the list of those
exibiting and make some strategic e-mail time.

What I'd really hate to do though is receifve a free pass and then not use
it when someone else could have used it...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
Do you have any suppliers that exhibit at the show? If so ask if they
have any
"guest passes" available. Or you might become a "temporary employee" of
the exhibitor and get a pass that way. You pretty much have to know
somebody
to get a freebie to a trade show but it's not all that hard.

That's about what I figured... Might have to look at the list of those
exibiting and make some strategic e-mail time.

What I'd really hate to do though is receifve a free pass and then not use
it when someone else could have used it...

Don't hesitate to contact them, in some of the trade shows in my
industry, the vendors have virtually unlimited passes, I've even been
told they could e-mail the PDF to me and it would get me in. These are
trade shows associated with a professional conference and may not apply
to all shows, but worth a try.

Stuart

What I'd really hate to do though is receifve a free pass and then not
use it when someone else could have used it...

Don't hesitate to contact them, in some of the trade shows in my industry,
the vendors have virtually unlimited passes, I've even been told they
could e-mail the PDF to me and it would get me in. These are trade shows
associated with a professional conference and may not apply to all shows,
but worth a try.

Excellent. Thank you. I'll give them fair warning that my attendance is
certainly not guaranteed, but possible given the facts at hand...

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:13:10 -0500, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:

I'm thinking about going down to either Charlotte, NC for the "South Pack"
packaging event held in March or maybe up to Eastec (MA) in May. Neither
will be full fledged business trips for me but I would certainly check them
out if I'm near there to see if anything met my business needs.

I noticed a few months ago while in Atlanta at a similar show that some
attendees get in free with passes from exhibitors... As much as I generally
dislike these huge events, there are times when I find myself located near
one and will fill a day browsing for the heck of it. I simply don't want to
have to pay for a ticket I may or may not use and because it's not a
business "need" I don't want to pay for it out of my business funds. In
Atlanta, I made some good business contacts and felt no remorse about paying
for the event but at some, it's simply a waste of funds...

Other than me being a cheap-arse, are there any ideas or thoughts out there
for me on this? I'm wondering if any of you ever received these free passes
and how did you get them or get on the list to receive them?

I know there is no legitimate metalworking content here, but the trade shows
are something that a lot of us attend, etc. There, of course is no
"rec.crafts.metalworking.tradeshows" newsgroup either so this is the most
legitimate group I could think of to post to other than maybe harassing the
folks over at alt.machines.cnc. grin

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

Hey, Joe:-

Often, in my experience, you can get in free to industry trade shows
if you are legitimately in the trade (or appear to be, as opposed to
students or winos or whatever), and if register online BEFORE the
event. They'll leave the badge for you to pick up or mail it to you.

It's only the ones who show up and try to register on site (without
the pass) that pay admission for the exhibit hall.

The technical sessions are another matter, I think you'd have to have
some kind of 'in' or give a talk to get those for free, if they
normally charge for them. Also a very few trade shows require actual
credentials (eg. membership in some organization) but I have not found
any of them interesting enough to bother with.

For example, you can register online free for the Charlotte show he
https://www.compusystems.com/servlet...id=641&Show=SP

Looks like Eastek is free as well, but I didn't follow the process far
enough to be su
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/esc-reg-e...image_source=&

There's absolutely no reason not to do this-- nothing cheap-arse about
not being a sucker. You're going there to be sold to, and to get your
name on a mailing list. Arguably, they should pay you!

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
There's absolutely no reason not to do this-- nothing cheap-arse about
not being a sucker. You're going there to be sold to, and to get your
name on a mailing list. Arguably, they should pay you!


Glad to see that someone else thinks like me. Really irks me to have to pay
to
have someone trying to sell something to me!

One of my pet peeves is hats. I should BUY a hat to advertise someone's
product for them?? Don't think so.

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
Do you have any suppliers that exhibit at the show? If so ask if they
have any
"guest passes" available. Or you might become a "temporary employee" of
the exhibitor and get a pass that way. You pretty much have to know
somebody
to get a freebie to a trade show but it's not all that hard.

That's about what I figured... Might have to look at the list of those
exibiting and make some strategic e-mail time.

What I'd really hate to do though is receifve a free pass and then not use
it when someone else could have used it...

Don't worry about it. I've walked into shows with three or four passes from
different companies.

Yes, I also got press passes, but the other freebies usually are not hard to
get.

--
Ed Huntress

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking about going down to either Charlotte, NC for the "South Pack"
packaging event held in March or maybe up to Eastec (MA) in May. Neither
will be full fledged business trips for me but I would certainly check
them out if I'm near there to see if anything met my business needs.

I noticed a few months ago while in Atlanta at a similar show that some
attendees get in free with passes from exhibitors... As much as I
generally dislike these huge events, there are times when I find myself
located near one and will fill a day browsing for the heck of it. I
simply don't want to have to pay for a ticket I may or may not use and
because it's not a business "need" I don't want to pay for it out of my
business funds. In Atlanta, I made some good business contacts and felt
no remorse about paying for the event but at some, it's simply a waste of
funds...

Other than me being a cheap-arse, are there any ideas or thoughts out
there for me on this? I'm wondering if any of you ever received these
free passes and how did you get them or get on the list to receive them?

I know there is no legitimate metalworking content here, but the trade
shows are something that a lot of us attend, etc. There, of course is no
"rec.crafts.metalworking.tradeshows" newsgroup either so this is the most
legitimate group I could think of to post to other than maybe harassing
the folks over at alt.machines.cnc. grin

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R




Look at the shows magazines or see if a vendor is showing. They have lots
of floor passes. They do not get you into the seminars, but you get to see
all the displays.

Hey, Joe:-

Often, in my experience, you can get in free to industry trade shows
if you are legitimately in the trade (or appear to be, as opposed to
students or winos or whatever), and if register online BEFORE the
event. They'll leave the badge for you to pick up or mail it to you.

It's only the ones who show up and try to register on site (without
the pass) that pay admission for the exhibit hall.

The technical sessions are another matter, I think you'd have to have
some kind of 'in' or give a talk to get those for free, if they
normally charge for them. Also a very few trade shows require actual
credentials (eg. membership in some organization) but I have not found
any of them interesting enough to bother with.

For example, you can register online free for the Charlotte show he
https://www.compusystems.com/servlet...id=641&Show=SP

Registerd for that one this morning...

Looks like Eastek is free as well, but I didn't follow the process far
enough to be su
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/esc-reg-e...image_source=&

Will click the link when done here for sure. Thank you.

There's absolutely no reason not to do this-- nothing cheap-arse about
not being a sucker. You're going there to be sold to, and to get your
name on a mailing list. Arguably, they should pay you!

Agreed.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

Yes, I also got press passes, but the other freebies usually are not hard
to get.

Now... To really take this off-topic... What exactly is involved in
getting a legitimate press pass these days?

It's rare I would want to go to a techical talk, but if I did, I'd gladly
also pay.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:13:10 -0500, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:


Other than me being a cheap-arse, are there any ideas or thoughts out there
for me on this? I'm wondering if any of you ever received these free passes
and how did you get them or get on the list to receive them?

I know there is no legitimate metalworking content here, but the trade shows
are something that a lot of us attend, etc. There, of course is no
"rec.crafts.metalworking.tradeshows" newsgroup either so this is the most
legitimate group I could think of to post to other than maybe harassing the
folks over at alt.machines.cnc. grin


I get free Westec passes every year, in the mail.

Go to the various trade show websites, and simply apply for one. In
most cases, they will send you one free. Or several of them.

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
Yes, I also got press passes, but the other freebies usually are not hard
to get.

Now... To really take this off-topic... What exactly is involved in
getting a legitimate press pass these days?

Become a member of the press. g

If you're not a magazine staffer, and if it's an SME show, you contact the
press office and tell them you're working on an article or a book. They'll
ask for whom. You'd better know. d8-)


It's rare I would want to go to a techical talk, but if I did, I'd gladly
also pay.

They can be expensive. That's where a press pass really pays off. Do you
have any published articles?

--
Ed Huntress

I get free Westec passes every year, in the mail.

Go to the various trade show websites, and simply apply for one. In
most cases, they will send you one free. Or several of them.

I was actually able to get both of these free online thanks to a previous
poster telling me to *look* online first.

--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

Become a member of the press. g

Harde-har-har...

The definition of "press" is kinda vague in my mind. Bloggers could be
press in my book.

If you're not a magazine staffer, and if it's an SME show, you contact the
press office and tell them you're working on an article or a book. They'll
ask for whom. You'd better know. d8-)

I wouldn't lie... I'd simply explain the truth from my perspective.

They can be expensive. That's where a press pass really pays off. Do you
have any published articles?

If I need to or want to hear it, the expense might not matter much...
Industrial stuff is always more costly than consumer stuff.

As for published articles - at least one that I know of but not in a
relevant field I'm afraid unless they consider non-malicious hacking's
historical viewpoint on-topic to their event... And the magazine was
certainly not industrial in nature at all.

I have my own web site and business and write a lot of stuff for public use
here in Northern, NJ. I'm sure I could pull it off legally and morally if I
needed to.

After all, I also write reviews from time to time for a metalworking forum
that is tied into the very backbone and origins of the internet. The
potential readership is HUGE too.... Rec.Crafts.Metalworking. G

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
Become a member of the press. g

Harde-har-har...

The definition of "press" is kinda vague in my mind. Bloggers could be
press in my book.

Not in theirs, for the most part. Keep in mind their purpose in giving
members of the press free entry: They want publicity coverage to promote
their shows, both before and after. If they think you'll provide that,
they'll give you a pass.

When I was working for metalworking magazines I'd write multi-page reports
that were sent to roughly 100,000 subscribers. That's what SME and the other
sponsoring organizations are looking for.


If you're not a magazine staffer, and if it's an SME show, you contact
the press office and tell them you're working on an article or a book.
They'll ask for whom. You'd better know. d8-)

I wouldn't lie... I'd simply explain the truth from my perspective.

Well, this isn't a government or legal function. The whole thing is entirely
at their discretion. They don't just hand them out because someone thinks he
deserves to be treated like the working press.


They can be expensive. That's where a press pass really pays off. Do you
have any published articles?

If I need to or want to hear it, the expense might not matter much...
Industrial stuff is always more costly than consumer stuff.

As for published articles - at least one that I know of but not in a
relevant field I'm afraid unless they consider non-malicious hacking's
historical viewpoint on-topic to their event... And the magazine was
certainly not industrial in nature at all.

No press pass for you, then. d8-)


I have my own web site and business and write a lot of stuff for public
use here in Northern, NJ. I'm sure I could pull it off legally and
morally if I needed to.

Moral, schmoral. What have you done for them lately? That's the question.


After all, I also write reviews from time to time for a metalworking forum
that is tied into the very backbone and origins of the internet. The
potential readership is HUGE too.... Rec.Crafts.Metalworking. G


No sale. So solly.

Enjoy the shows. Covering them for the press is hard work and it eats up a
lot of shoe leather. We did not particularly look forward to IMTS, because
it meant walking miles and miles ten hours every day for over a week,
listening to people promote their products, conduct interviews at high
speed, and try to shoot publication-quality photos on the run. I used to
carry up to 30 pounds of camera gear. It was a workout.

--
Ed Huntress

The definition of "press" is kinda vague in my mind. Bloggers could be
press in my book.

Not in theirs, for the most part. Keep in mind their purpose in giving
members of the press free entry: They want publicity coverage to promote
their shows, both before and after. If they think you'll provide that,
they'll give you a pass.

The paradigm of what is effective "press" and what is not has changed. To
be honest, anyone who thinks print media will give their show or business or
whatever more coverage than a long lasting, well woreded blog or internet
post on a web site is probably wrong.

....At least when you look at the "bang per buck" model of evaluating it.
For the price of a 1/8th page ad in some magazines, I can set up a decent
web site dedicated to the product and host it for two years.

When I was working for metalworking magazines I'd write multi-page reports
that were sent to roughly 100,000 subscribers. That's what SME and the
other sponsoring organizations are looking for.

I can understand their reasoning but also see that in most cases, this
reasoning is based on 10-20 year old thinking. Have you seen the
metalworking magazines lately? What used to be 100 pages is sometimes 20.
Dying media for the most part.

I wouldn't lie... I'd simply explain the truth from my perspective.

Well, this isn't a government or legal function. The whole thing is
entirely at their discretion. They don't just hand them out because
someone thinks he deserves to be treated like the working press.

Understood.

As for published articles - at least one that I know of but not in a
relevant field I'm afraid unless they consider non-malicious hacking's
historical viewpoint on-topic to their event... And the magazine was
certainly not industrial in nature at all.

No press pass for you, then. d8-)

That's about what I figured.

CLIP

After all, I also write reviews from time to time for a metalworking
forum that is tied into the very backbone and origins of the internet.
The potential readership is HUGE too.... Rec.Crafts.Metalworking. G


No sale. So solly.

Hey... It's a spin dependent upon the listener not being techical enough to
have a clue what this place is.

Enjoy the shows. Covering them for the press is hard work and it eats up a
lot of shoe leather. We did not particularly look forward to IMTS, because
it meant walking miles and miles ten hours every day for over a week,
listening to people promote their products, conduct interviews at high
speed, and try to shoot publication-quality photos on the run. I used to
carry up to 30 pounds of camera gear. It was a workout.

Ick...Does not sound like fun.

I don't think I'd try to get in as press to be honest. It was more of a
"how do I get that on my resume/business card/list of credentials" thing.
If a show is on my schedule to attend and it's business related, I have no
problem paying the entrance fee - but will avoid it for frugality's sake if
possible. If I happen to be local to a show and I just want to make a lap
around the room, then I feel silly paying all that money just to take a
chance on seeing something useful. The packaging show I mentioned in the OP
is a perfect case. I don't need to know anything about packaging at all.
If I go, it's because I'm local and would be open to being surprised with
something useful.

In any case, don't expect to see me with camera gear or press credentials.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
The definition of "press" is kinda vague in my mind. Bloggers could be
press in my book.

Not in theirs, for the most part. Keep in mind their purpose in giving
members of the press free entry: They want publicity coverage to promote
their shows, both before and after. If they think you'll provide that,
they'll give you a pass.

The paradigm of what is effective "press" and what is not has changed. To
be honest, anyone who thinks print media will give their show or business
or whatever more coverage than a long lasting, well woreded blog or
internet post on a web site is probably wrong.

I've yet to see evidence of that, Joe. The print media are taking a beating,
but narrow-interest Internet media don't seem to be replacing them, in terms
of numbers of viewers attracted to an individual source. That's not to say
it won't happen, but the concentration of readership, as of a couple of
years ago, was all in favor of special-interest print media.

Now, *total* readership of Internet media doubtless is higher. But there are
so many voices that there is no effective way to "cover" a market with them,
at least, in industry. There are a lot of reasons for this but the primary
one is that the specialized media depend heavily on their long-developed,
institutionalized ways of internally communicating, and no such thing exists
for metalworking in Internet media. I doubt if any bloggers are getting 300+
press releases before a major trade show, for example. I frequently got
300 - 600 for a show all by myself when I was writing for relatively
large-circulation industrial magazines. The publicity managers only had to
mail to a dozen of us who wrote about the machining trades and they could
cover 65% or a little more of the market. Covering the other 35% is very
difficult, and it might take 100 mailings to cover another 20%. Publicity is
a numbers game.


...At least when you look at the "bang per buck" model of evaluating it.
For the price of a 1/8th page ad in some magazines, I can set up a decent
web site dedicated to the product and host it for two years.

Sure. But you're talking about advertising. Publicity and advertising are
two different animals. And the role that your web site is fulfilling in the
marketing-communications mix is not much like that filled by print
advertising. You may get a similar result, but it's coming to you in a
different way.

For example, a specialized web site for a narrow interest (yours) actually
is an intermediate step in making most industrial sales. It's probably doing
a good and cost-effective job of informing people about your products but a
poor one of building your recognition among the potential market. There are
still at least 120,000 or so commercial metalworking shops and plants in the
US. You can't reach them with a web site for a specialized business, so
you're not priming the pump with that web site. What you're probably doing
is drawing in an audience that already has a high interest in your product.
That's a good thing, but it doesn't get you in touch with a large percentage
of the market that doesn't know you exist.


When I was working for metalworking magazines I'd write multi-page
reports that were sent to roughly 100,000 subscribers. That's what SME
and the other sponsoring organizations are looking for.

I can understand their reasoning but also see that in most cases, this
reasoning is based on 10-20 year old thinking. Have you seen the
metalworking magazines lately? What used to be 100 pages is sometimes 20.
Dying media for the most part.

Every month. I spent an hour talking to Mark Albert at _Modern Machine Shop_
the other day. I have standing orders for articles from three more
magazines. I don't think I'll write them, for several reasons, but I'm in
touch with the industry.

There are few long-experienced pros in that business these days, and even
fewer in industrial advertising. As a business, it's just hanging on.


I wouldn't lie... I'd simply explain the truth from my perspective.

Well, this isn't a government or legal function. The whole thing is
entirely at their discretion. They don't just hand them out because
someone thinks he deserves to be treated like the working press.

Understood.

As for published articles - at least one that I know of but not in a
relevant field I'm afraid unless they consider non-malicious hacking's
historical viewpoint on-topic to their event... And the magazine was
certainly not industrial in nature at all.

No press pass for you, then. d8-)

That's about what I figured.

CLIP

After all, I also write reviews from time to time for a metalworking
forum that is tied into the very backbone and origins of the internet.
The potential readership is HUGE too.... Rec.Crafts.Metalworking. G


No sale. So solly.

Hey... It's a spin dependent upon the listener not being techical enough
to have a clue what this place is.

Enjoy the shows. Covering them for the press is hard work and it eats up
a lot of shoe leather. We did not particularly look forward to IMTS,
because it meant walking miles and miles ten hours every day for over a
week, listening to people promote their products, conduct interviews at
high speed, and try to shoot publication-quality photos on the run. I
used to carry up to 30 pounds of camera gear. It was a workout.

Ick...Does not sound like fun.

I don't think I'd try to get in as press to be honest. It was more of a
"how do I get that on my resume/business card/list of credentials" thing.
If a show is on my schedule to attend and it's business related, I have no
problem paying the entrance fee - but will avoid it for frugality's sake
if possible. If I happen to be local to a show and I just want to make a
lap around the room, then I feel silly paying all that money just to take
a chance on seeing something useful. The packaging show I mentioned in
the OP is a perfect case. I don't need to know anything about packaging
at all. If I go, it's because I'm local and would be open to being
surprised with something useful.

Well, it's a cost of doing business for many people. Trade shows are always
a mixed bag -- like magazines, there are too many of them -- but they're one
way to keep your finger on the pulse of your industry. It's all too easy, as
you doubtless know, to wind up being insulated when you serve a small
market.


In any case, don't expect to see me with camera gear or press credentials.

You're probably a lot better off avoiding it. g For one thing, when people
see your press badge, they want to corner you and talk your ear off. It's
better for you, I'm sure, to be free of that and just to go where you want
and see what you want.

--
Ed Huntress

The paradigm of what is effective "press" and what is not has changed.
To be honest, anyone who thinks print media will give their show or
business or whatever more coverage than a long lasting, well woreded blog
or internet post on a web site is probably wrong.

I've yet to see evidence of that, Joe. The print media are taking a
beating, but narrow-interest Internet media don't seem to be replacing
them, in terms of numbers of viewers attracted to an individual source.
That's not to say it won't happen, but the concentration of readership, as
of a couple of years ago, was all in favor of special-interest print
media.

I guess it depends on the evidence you are seeking... For me, I guess I'm
basing my opinion on what I experience here.

If I spend $2000 on a reoccuring print ad, I might get a customer or two a
year...

If I spend $2000 on a web site, Google AdWords and some site enhancements,
etc. I get a customer a month minimum...

I made the mental leap from my situation to the internet as a whole because
I see my drill's press releases bringing in lots of business and a lot of my
ads going nowhere.

Now... If a magazine carries a free press release for me in their paper
version and I get a few calls from it, I'm likely to place an ad. ...but I
haven't had that scenario play out in 3-4 years of "beta testing" print
magazines. I've all but dropped print advertising and run 100% on the web
these days.

Now, *total* readership of Internet media doubtless is higher. But there
are so many voices that there is no effective way to "cover" a market with
them, at least, in industry. There are a lot of reasons for this but the
primary one is that the specialized media depend heavily on their
long-developed, institutionalized ways of internally communicating, and no
such thing exists for metalworking in Internet media. I doubt if any
bloggers are getting 300+ press releases before a major trade show, for
example. I frequently got 300 - 600 for a show all by myself when I was
writing for relatively large-circulation industrial magazines. The
publicity managers only had to mail to a dozen of us who wrote about the
machining trades and they could cover 65% or a little more of the market.
Covering the other 35% is very difficult, and it might take 100 mailings
to cover another 20%. Publicity is a numbers game.

Good point. However, what good does it do if 1000 people or 100,000 people
see your ad in XXXX magazine but are not on the market for that product?
Most of us go to a search engine and type in whatever we want to buy these
days. Saturating the web, at least in my case gives me more business per
dollar or hour spent.

...At least when you look at the "bang per buck" model of evaluating it.
For the price of a 1/8th page ad in some magazines, I can set up a decent
web site dedicated to the product and host it for two years.

Sure. But you're talking about advertising. Publicity and advertising are
two different animals. And the role that your web site is fulfilling in
the marketing-communications mix is not much like that filled by print
advertising. You may get a similar result, but it's coming to you in a
different way.

Point well taken.

For example, a specialized web site for a narrow interest (yours) actually
is an intermediate step in making most industrial sales. It's probably
doing a good and cost-effective job of informing people about your
products but a poor one of building your recognition among the potential
market. There are still at least 120,000 or so commercial metalworking
shops and plants in the US. You can't reach them with a web site for a
specialized business, so you're not priming the pump with that web site.
What you're probably doing is drawing in an audience that already has a
high interest in your product. That's a good thing, but it doesn't get you
in touch with a large percentage of the market that doesn't know you
exist.

Most of those folks know some brand names only because they use the product
already... Many of them wouldn't have a clue how to get in touch with the
manufacturer or distributor of that 20-30 year old unit they own so they do
a web search and find them or me...

The new customers looking for a product search for that type of product and
find them or me too...

But brand recognition? In my field, that's not too important so I guess my
logical thinking will never synch with the mainstream logical thinking
model.

Every month. I spent an hour talking to Mark Albert at _Modern Machine
Shop_ the other day. I have standing orders for articles from three more
magazines. I don't think I'll write them, for several reasons, but I'm in
touch with the industry.

There are few long-experienced pros in that business these days, and even
fewer in industrial advertising. As a business, it's just hanging on.

I feel for Mark and all of those folks in the industry because their product
serves a purpose that many other outlets can not... At the same time, their
potential readers are retiring or being outsourced to the cheapest overseas
bidder. As my dad always says, the US market for machining and metalworking
is much like the farm market was in the early 1960's. We are maintaining
what we have at best and loosing all but the most niche market stuff to
overseas growers... er... Manufacturers...

CLIP

Well, it's a cost of doing business for many people. Trade shows are
always a mixed bag -- like magazines, there are too many of them -- but
they're one way to keep your finger on the pulse of your industry. It's
all too easy, as you doubtless know, to wind up being insulated when you
serve a small market.

That's the #1 danger for us here... If the WWW disappears, we only have
maybe 10% of our current business as repeats / spare parts, etc. We would
survive, but my Bentley (yeah right! I drive a 1997 Nissan with close to
200,000 miles) would have to go I'm sure...

You're probably a lot better off avoiding it. g For one thing, when
people see your press badge, they want to corner you and talk your ear
off. It's better for you, I'm sure, to be free of that and just to go
where you want and see what you want.

LOL... I guess you understand better than anyone why my job title on the
badge usually says "Other" rather than "Small Business Owner With Cash to
Spend", eh?

Thanks for the insight by the way. Would never have thought to post a
question about the subject here seeking an answer(s) like this.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
The paradigm of what is effective "press" and what is not has changed.
To be honest, anyone who thinks print media will give their show or
business or whatever more coverage than a long lasting, well woreded
blog or internet post on a web site is probably wrong.

I've yet to see evidence of that, Joe. The print media are taking a
beating, but narrow-interest Internet media don't seem to be replacing
them, in terms of numbers of viewers attracted to an individual source.
That's not to say it won't happen, but the concentration of readership,
as of a couple of years ago, was all in favor of special-interest print
media.

I guess it depends on the evidence you are seeking... For me, I guess I'm
basing my opinion on what I experience here.

If I spend $2000 on a reoccuring print ad, I might get a customer or two a
year...

If I spend $2000 on a web site, Google AdWords and some site enhancements,
etc. I get a customer a month minimum...

I made the mental leap from my situation to the internet as a whole
because I see my drill's press releases bringing in lots of business and a
lot of my ads going nowhere.

No marketing job is trickier, and more varied, than marketing a specialized
product or group of products for a small business, whether it's industrial
or consumer. In my years of advertising and marketing, businesses like yours
probably made up half of my clients -- not in dollars, but in number.
They're always the toughest and they tend to have very different, if not
unique or singular, solutions.

Services such as search engines and AdWords complicate the equation. Now
you're operating in a mode that was impossible to do for years, in which
people seek you out. That boosts your efficiency if not your reach, and it
lets you skip over some steps in the process.

But whether you have the optimum program is an open question. I'm not
presuming an answer, only commenting that the question isn't answered by
your experience. If it works to your satisfaction, though, I wouldn't mess
with it.

The biggest marketing question in such situations, once you're satisfied
with your sales volume, is where it may leave you vulnerable to competition.
That's a VERY big question, and another one that we couldn't touch here. A
key issue that determines it is your current market share; another is your
relative recognition in your core marketplace.


Now... If a magazine carries a free press release for me in their paper
version and I get a few calls from it, I'm likely to place an ad. ...but
I haven't had that scenario play out in 3-4 years of "beta testing" print
magazines. I've all but dropped print advertising and run 100% on the web
these days.

Well, that's a complicated issue, and far more than we could discuss here.


Now, *total* readership of Internet media doubtless is higher. But there
are so many voices that there is no effective way to "cover" a market
with them, at least, in industry. There are a lot of reasons for this but
the primary one is that the specialized media depend heavily on their
long-developed, institutionalized ways of internally communicating, and
no such thing exists for metalworking in Internet media. I doubt if any
bloggers are getting 300+ press releases before a major trade show, for
example. I frequently got 300 - 600 for a show all by myself when I was
writing for relatively large-circulation industrial magazines. The
publicity managers only had to mail to a dozen of us who wrote about the
machining trades and they could cover 65% or a little more of the market.
Covering the other 35% is very difficult, and it might take 100 mailings
to cover another 20%. Publicity is a numbers game.

Good point. However, what good does it do if 1000 people or 100,000
people see your ad in XXXX magazine but are not on the market for that
product?

None. The ones that matter are the ones that either are in the market now,
or might be in the future. That's where your demand-pull will come from.
It's also where you can deliver your message with some hope of influencing
future sales.

The basic truths in small-business marketing are that people won't buy your
product unless they prefer it; they won't prefer it if they don't know about
it; and they won't know about it if you don't tell them about it.
Recognition is ALWAYS lower than business owners, their sales managers, and
even their marketing managers (if they're not well-trained) believe. I see
that you have positioned yourself well on Google and that you probably get a
lot of hits based on people searching on relevent terms. What I don't know
about your market, but which probably has a lot to do with who gets the
business, is which names a prospective customer will recognize when they do
a search. The ones that pass you over for a competitor, simply because
they've heard of the competitor but they've never heard of you, is almost
always a larger number than a typical advertiser realizes. And you will
never know it happened.

Most of us go to a search engine and type in whatever we want to buy these
days. Saturating the web, at least in my case gives me more business per
dollar or hour spent.

...At least when you look at the "bang per buck" model of evaluating it.
For the price of a 1/8th page ad in some magazines, I can set up a
decent web site dedicated to the product and host it for two years.

Sure. But you're talking about advertising. Publicity and advertising are
two different animals. And the role that your web site is fulfilling in
the marketing-communications mix is not much like that filled by print
advertising. You may get a similar result, but it's coming to you in a
different way.

Point well taken.

For example, a specialized web site for a narrow interest (yours)
actually is an intermediate step in making most industrial sales. It's
probably doing a good and cost-effective job of informing people about
your products but a poor one of building your recognition among the
potential market. There are still at least 120,000 or so commercial
metalworking shops and plants in the US. You can't reach them with a web
site for a specialized business, so you're not priming the pump with that
web site. What you're probably doing is drawing in an audience that
already has a high interest in your product. That's a good thing, but it
doesn't get you in touch with a large percentage of the market that
doesn't know you exist.

Most of those folks know some brand names only because they use the
product already... Many of them wouldn't have a clue how to get in touch
with the manufacturer or distributor of that 20-30 year old unit they own
so they do a web search and find them or me...

And therein lies a story, one that industrial marketers could exploit much
better than they do. But don't get me started. d8-)


The new customers looking for a product search for that type of product
and find them or me too...

But brand recognition? In my field, that's not too important so I guess
my logical thinking will never synch with the mainstream logical thinking
model.

You may well have the ideal program; I wouldn't try to judge it from a
distance.


Every month. I spent an hour talking to Mark Albert at _Modern Machine
Shop_ the other day. I have standing orders for articles from three more
magazines. I don't think I'll write them, for several reasons, but I'm in
touch with the industry.

There are few long-experienced pros in that business these days, and even
fewer in industrial advertising. As a business, it's just hanging on.

I feel for Mark and all of those folks in the industry because their
product serves a purpose that many other outlets can not... At the same
time, their potential readers are retiring or being outsourced to the
cheapest overseas bidder. As my dad always says, the US market for
machining and metalworking is much like the farm market was in the early
1960's. We are maintaining what we have at best and loosing all but the
most niche market stuff to overseas growers... er... Manufacturers...

CLIP

Well, it's a cost of doing business for many people. Trade shows are
always a mixed bag -- like magazines, there are too many of them -- but
they're one way to keep your finger on the pulse of your industry. It's
all too easy, as you doubtless know, to wind up being insulated when you
serve a small market.

That's the #1 danger for us here... If the WWW disappears, we only have
maybe 10% of our current business as repeats / spare parts, etc. We would
survive, but my Bentley (yeah right! I drive a 1997 Nissan with close to
200,000 miles) would have to go I'm sure...

You're probably a lot better off avoiding it. g For one thing, when
people see your press badge, they want to corner you and talk your ear
off. It's better for you, I'm sure, to be free of that and just to go
where you want and see what you want.

LOL... I guess you understand better than anyone why my job title on the
badge usually says "Other" rather than "Small Business Owner With Cash to
Spend", eh?

Thanks for the insight by the way. Would never have thought to post a
question about the subject here seeking an answer(s) like this.

I always enjoy the subject, Joe.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:13:10 -0500, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:

I know there is no legitimate metalworking content here, but the trade shows
are something that a lot of us attend, etc. There, of course is no
"rec.crafts.metalworking.tradeshows" newsgroup either so this is the most
legitimate group I could think of to post to other than maybe harassing the
folks over at alt.machines.cnc. grin

Why not contact the show organisers, say you are considering
exhibiting in the future, but need to get an idea if it is worth while
for your business (ie generate enough customers)

Alan

No marketing job is trickier, and more varied, than marketing a
specialized product or group of products for a small business, whether
it's industrial or consumer. In my years of advertising and marketing,
businesses like yours probably made up half of my clients -- not in
dollars, but in number. They're always the toughest and they tend to have
very different, if not unique or singular, solutions.

Services such as search engines and AdWords complicate the equation. Now
you're operating in a mode that was impossible to do for years, in which
people seek you out. That boosts your efficiency if not your reach, and it
lets you skip over some steps in the process.

But whether you have the optimum program is an open question. I'm not
presuming an answer, only commenting that the question isn't answered by
your experience. If it works to your satisfaction, though, I wouldn't mess
with it.

Tricky - yes.

Works for me - yes.

Changing anything - slowly and with much thought.

The biggest marketing question in such situations, once you're satisfied
with your sales volume, is where it may leave you vulnerable to
competition. That's a VERY big question, and another one that we couldn't
touch here. A key issue that determines it is your current market share;
another is your relative recognition in your core marketplace.

Only two of my competitors are saavy enough to be a threat. Neither has
surfaced enough to put me out of business and we have a very good working
relationship with them for projects that need it. I'm the kind of guy who
will send you to my competitor if they can do the job better. It's not
often, but sometimes they can and I don't want to take a job where it builds
resentment with a customer.

I've often told people, "You live in XXXX. I want to visit XXXX some day,
but I want to do it while on vacation, not to fix a problem with my product.
If I sell it to you, I'm sure you will be happy with the price and
performance."

In ten years, we've made two service calls. I'd rather be here than off in
Bucksnort, USA fixing a $20 problem anyday.

The basic truths in small-business marketing are that people won't buy
your product unless they prefer it; they won't prefer it if they don't
know about it; and they won't know about it if you don't tell them about
it. Recognition is ALWAYS lower than business owners, their sales
managers, and even their marketing managers (if they're not well-trained)
believe. I see that you have positioned yourself well on Google and that
you probably get a lot of hits based on people searching on relevent
terms. What I don't know about your market, but which probably has a lot
to do with who gets the business, is which names a prospective customer
will recognize when they do a search. The ones that pass you over for a
competitor, simply because they've heard of the competitor but they've
never heard of you, is almost always a larger number than a typical
advertiser realizes. And you will never know it happened.

Thanks for the kid words... Hopefully, our name is out there enough that
people look for us specifically. Otherwise, if they are smart enough to
call us and get a quote, they will see the difference pre-sale in the way we
solve the problem they have, the service we provide and the quaility of the
product post-delivery.

That being said, I'll settle for being the "Pepsi" or even less in my
industry. Too many headaches when you are the "Coca-Cola" provider.

Thanks for the insight by the way. Would never have thought to post a
question about the subject here seeking an answer(s) like this.

I always enjoy the subject, Joe.

I'm not sure I *enjoy* it, but at the very worst, it's a necessary evil...
grin

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

I know there is no legitimate metalworking content here, but the trade
shows
are something that a lot of us attend, etc. There, of course is no
"rec.crafts.metalworking.tradeshows" newsgroup either so this is the most
legitimate group I could think of to post to other than maybe harassing
the
folks over at alt.machines.cnc. grin

Why not contact the show organisers, say you are considering
exhibiting in the future, but need to get an idea if it is worth while
for your business (ie generate enough customers)

That would possibly work, but it's probably untrue for us. I don't think
I'll ever exhibit at a show unless getting an indoor parking spot for my
"stuff" is worth the price of an exhibitor's booth.

Not judging you at all because you don't know whether I'd ever exhibit or
not, but I'm a stickler for being brutally honest with people and businesses
and I wouldn't want to cross that line.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R